General Lectures
Lecture Excerpt

New York, August 25, 1966
Prabhupāda: "You take to your teacher and give it to him." "All right. This will do?" "Oh, yes, this will do. This cup will do." Now, when the teacher saw that he is coming with a cup of yogurt and promised that he will supply, he would supply, whatever required, he would supply, oh, he became very angry: "You cheated me like that?" and so on. So he, out of anger, he throw it. Now, after some time, when he came back, he saw that the yogurt is fallen down on the ground, but the pot is full. Then he tried again; again got it. So as much as he could take, he took, but the pot is always full. The pot is always full. So this is the position of spiritual. From spiritual, you may draw as much as you can, but it always full. That is the spiritual idea. So God is so full. He's paripūrṇa, pūrṇa. So even God comes out of God, still, God is there. That is incarnation. If God Himself comes out of God... So therefore, God in the heart of so many millions and billions of living entities does not mean that God has lost Himself. God is still there. That is the spiritual idea. And this is not... I am not talking to you some manufactured, coining some word. No. There is Vedic hymn,
All right. If there is any question, you can make... (end)
Lecture on Mahā-mantra

New York, September 8, 1966
Prabhupāda: The door is open? You can keep the door open. Yes. Īśvara... Just try to cite, recite this. (devotees repeat each word)
(repeats twice) Now, some of you members have asked me to explain the meaning of this chanting, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. Now, this sound is transcendental sound, transcendental sound, incarnation, sound incarnation of the Absolute Truth. Just try to understand what is incarnation. Incarnation means... The Sanskrit word is avatāra, and that is translated into English as "incarnation." Of course, the root meaning of incarnation I cannot exactly explain to you, but the root meaning of the... (aside:) Somebody stop. Yes. The root meaning of avatāra is "which comes from the transcendental sky, the spiritual sky to the material sky." That is called avatāra. Avataraṇa. Avataraṇa. Just like... Avataraṇa means "coming from up to down." That is called avatārana. And avatāra is understood that when God or His bona fide representative comes from that sky to this material plane, that is called avatāra.
So this sound, this Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, is the sound representation of the Supreme Lord. The sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. The whole thing, either material or spiritual, whatever we have got experience, nothing is separated from the Supreme Absolute Truth. Nothing is separated. Everything has emanated from the Absolute Truth. (aside:) Come on. Sit down. But just like... The example... Just like earth. Earth, then from earth, you have got wood, fuel. From fuel, when you get fire, first of all there is smoke. Then, after smoke, there is fire. And the fire, from fire, you can take work. Now, beginning from earth, from earth there is wood; from wood there is smoke; from smoke there is fire. There is a link between the fire and the earth. But the work of the fire, the benefit of the fire, can be had at the last stage, when there is real ignition of fire. Similarly, there is link. The whole material cosmic situation, manifestation, what we see, it is just like the smoke. The fire is behind it. That is spiritual sky. But still, in the smoke, you can feel some heat also. So similarly, this sound vibration of the spiritual world is here so that even in this material world, where there is a scarcity of that spiritual fire, we can appreciate, we can feel, the warmth of that fire.
So this is the meaning of, in a nutshell, meaning of this, I mean to say, spiritual vibration. And grammatical meaning is these, all these words, sixteen words: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, sixteen... Now, according to grammatical rules, when somebody is addressed... Just like in your English language it is, note of address is, "O Mr. such and such," similarly, in grammar, Sanskrit grammar, the same note of address, which is called sambodhana, that is expressed in this way. So Hare, Hare is the note of address form of the sound Harā. Harā. Harā means the potency of the Supreme Lord, potency. The Supreme Lord is represented everywhere by His potency. There is a nice verse in the Viṣṇu Purāṇa. It is said like that: Just like a fire, the fire situated in one place, it distributes its heat and light. Just like... Take the example for the sun. The sun is located at a certain fixed-up place. That we can see. But the heat of the sun and the light of the sun is distributed all over the universe. Ekadeśa-sthitasyāgneḥ. Ah, yes. The verse is like...
Akhilaṁ jagat. In this world, whatever you are seeing, it is nothing but distribution of the energy of the Supreme Lord. Just like you can feel the light and the heat of the sun. This light and heat of the sun are different energies of the sun. The energy and the energetic, the thing from which the energy is generated and the energy, they are nondifferent. The sunshine or the sun heat is not different from the sun. Because there is heat in the sun, therefore we feel the heat of sunshine. And there is light in the sun, therefore we see the sunshine. So this sunshine and sun heat is not different from the sun as it is. But still it is different. Still it is different. You cannot say that "Because I am feeling the heat of the sun, therefore I have approached sun." No. Sun is far, far away from you. And because the sunshine has entered your room, you cannot say that "Sun has entered my room." No. Still, sunshine and sun heat is not different from the sun.
Similarly, the whole creation, anything... Generally there are three things: the potent, God, and His three energies. This is the sum total: internal energy, external energy, and marginal energy. External energy is this material manifestation. Just like this body is my external energy. I am soul, so my external energy is this body. Similarly, I have got my internal energy. That is my consciousness. Consciousness is my internal energy, and this body and the mind and this material demonstration, or manifestation, is my external energy. The body has developed, the mind has developed, from me, soul, not that I, consciousness, is developed from this body. No. That is a wrong conception. That is a wrong conception. You cannot develop consciousness from this body. Otherwise a dead man could have been again revived to consciousness. Because if matter is the cause of consciousness, then the whole matter is there already. Whole matter. The dead body means, so far material substance is concerned, everything is there, present. Nothing has disappeared. If you say there is no blood-oḥ, that is not very difficult thing, blood, a red substance. Do you mean to say something red injected within this body will bring back the life? No. If redness is the cause of life or consciousness, then modern chemical can make immediately by chemical combination the whole thing red. Or take example: there are many natural stones, they are by nature red. If you say that "This artificial redness cannot give life; the natural redness is the cause of life," then you take the stone. It has got natural redness, but there is no life. But there is no life. So redness is also not the cause of consciousness of life. That is a wrong theory. That is a complete... Consciousness is completely different thing, qualitatively different. Nothing is different from one to another, just like I have explained already that the earth, wood, then smoke, then fire—everything is linked up, but everything is also different from one another.
So the whole thing... The Supreme Lord is represented throughout everything, whatever you see, matter or spirit or anything, physical, chemical—whatever you can give name—there are so many things. But they are not separated from God. God is linked up in everywhere. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. Just like our Bhagavad-gītā, we have begun that yena sarvam idaṁ tatam: "That thing which is present all over the body, that you are." So this is individual consciousness: "I am present all over my body." Similarly, the supreme consciousness, he is present all over the universe, all over. This is only a small manifestation of God's energy, very minute. In the Bhagavad-gītā you will find, ekāṁśena sthito jagat [Bg. 10.42]. This jagat... Jagat means this material manifestation. This material manifestation is a one-fourth part demonstration of this whole energy of the Supreme Lord, one-fourth part. So nothing is different from God. But there are certain philosophers, they say, pantheist or monotheist... There are so many theists. They are also be... They believe in the Supreme, but impersonal. But we followers of this Kṛṣṇa philosophy, Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavata, we do not follow that philosophy. What is that philosophy? The other sections, they say that "Because God is distributed all over everywhere, therefore there is no separate existence of God." But we do not say that. We say that, the example, that because the sun is distributing his heat and energy, therefore you cannot say that there is no existence of sun. Sun is separately existing. In spite of distributing for millions of years heat, the reservation of heat in the sun is intact. It is not diminished. But everyone knows that for millions and billions of years the sun is distributing heat. Nobody knows the history, how long. Your distributing center, the powerhouse, if you fail to supply coal or oil, then after one hour the whole New York City will be dark. So just you can imagine who is supplying the fuel in the heat of the sun so that for millions and billions of years the heat of the sun is in the same temperature. So this is only one of the creation of the God, God's creation. But just imagine. If God's creation is so unlimited and so much energetic, then how much energetic and how much powerful is the creator? That is to be... These things are to be thought. In everything, everything, we can have God consciousness. If this watch is so wonderful workmanship and we are struck with wonder how nicely it is giving time, how the machine is adjusted, now, before appreciating this watch, how much we have to appreciate the person who has discovered this watch, how much brain he has got? Before appreciating a powerful brain in this world, one should appreciate who has given him this powerful brain. If the man has attained that powerful brain out of his own accord, then great powerful brain like Professor Einstein, Sir Jagadish Chandra Bose, they could create another brain like them so that in their absence there would not have been scarcity of scientist and powerful brain. But they could not do that. Therefore they are not creator of the powerful brain. The powerful brain is gift of the supreme powerful brain.
So in every respect, if we think... This is called philosophy. If we have got thoughtful propensities, if we can little think over every matter, you will find that God is present everywhere, and still, He is personally present in His own place. The same example: the sun is present everywhere by heat and light; still, sun, the sun, has its own location. That you cannot deny. Similarly, God is present everywhere. Not only everywhere... We learn from Brahma-saṁhitā,
eko 'py asau racayituṁ jagad-aṇḍa-koṭiṁ
yac-chaktir asti jagad-aṇḍa-cayā yad-antam
govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi
[Bs. 5.35]
This Govinda, anādir ādir govindaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. So the prayer is, "I worship that Govinda," sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam, kāraṇa, "who is the cause of all causes." Cause of all causes. Now, in this verse of Brahma-saṁhitā we find that one of His plenary portion... In the Vedic hymns we find that God has become many. Eko bahu śyām. God is one without second, but He has become Himself many. We are also God. Out of that many, we are one. We are one. We are not separate from God. So, but there are amongst the "many"s there is a difference of potency, difference of potencies. Just like what you can do, I cannot do. Your workmanship may not be equal with my workmanship. Your brain work may not be equal to my brain work. There are differences. Each and every living entity, they are different from each other so far individual capacities are concerned. So in spite of many... That is God's creation. In spite of many, each and every thing, you will find there is some difference. You can sit down at a place in New York and go on counting and seeing all people passing before you—you won't find one man is exactly like the other man. Not only that, in court, you know, every one of you know, that they take impression of the left hand thumb impression. Now, this thumb impression... You go on taking millions and millions of thumb impression, and you won't find one thumb impression is exactly like the other. And because there is difference of thumb impression, therefore the identity is taken in that way, that "This particular man's thumb impression, even if he denies his signature, the thumb impression will corroborate that his signature is this." So that is God's creation.
Similarly, there are two kinds of expansions of the Lord. One kind of expansion is called Viṣṇu-tattva. Viṣṇu-tattva means the expansion, they are as equal as the God Himself. And there are expansions which are called the jīva-tattva, the living entities. This expansion of the living entities, they are not equally powerful, but the expansion of Viṣṇu-tattva is equally powerful, as good as God Himself. So the incarnation... Incarnation of God means the expansion which is as good as God Himself. That is called incarnation. So this, I mean to, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, is the expansion, incarnation, sound incarnation, of God. It is expansion and a plenary expansion, sound, sound representation... Not representation. God, present Himself in this form of sound. Because we cannot see God with our present eyes, present eyes, because this is not our proper eyes. They are material eyes. You don't think that this eye, the transparent thing which is floating in this, I mean to say, hole... That is not seeing. Similarly, if you can present, or if you take this eye... You cannot see. That cannot see. It is simply a lens only. It is only lens. So none of this body, bodily part, is actually the thing which is taking part. So therefore with these eyes, with these material eyes, you cannot see. Ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.136]. The present senses, the present senses cannot have any knowledge of the Supreme God. But how then we can have knowledge? If my senses are unfit, then how can I make it fit? Oh, that is the thing. That is the thing, that you have to spiritualize, spiritualize these material sense, I mean to say, organs. And then, when you spiritualize, then you can have the spiritual vision and see God and yourself. The same example which I have recited many times: just like the iron rod. Iron rod, you put into the fire. It gets warm—warm, warmer, warmer. And when it is red hot, then it is no longer iron. Iron it is, but it does not act as iron, but it acts as fire. That iron rod which is red hot in association with fire, you can take that rod and touch anything; it will burn. That means it is no longer acting as iron; it is acting as fire. Similarly, if you associate with this transcendental incarnation, sound incarnation of God, then you will be gradually godly. You will be godly. You can become godly with God's association, not by any other material, extraneous things. No. Just like you can have fire only in association with fire, not with water. If you want to get yourself warm, then you have to associate with fire, not with water, not with air. Similarly, if you want to spiritualize your vision, if you want to spiritualize your action, if you want to spiritualize the whole constitution of your existence, then you have to associate with the supreme spirit. And that supreme spirit is very kind because He is everything. That we have already explained. Everything is interrelated with the Supreme; therefore He is interrelated with sound also. So by God's inconceivable potency, He can present before yourself in sound incarnation. That is His potency. That is His potency. He can do that. And therefore this name, Kṛṣṇa, and the Supreme Lord Kṛṣṇa, there is no difference.
So our, this sound representation of the Supreme Lord constantly will make us... Just like our association with the fire, the, I mean to say, iron rod's association with the fire makes the rod equally qualified, exactly—not equally qualified, but almost the quality of burning it gets—similarly, by our constant association with Lord... Lord is not only incarnation in a sound form. He is incarnated in many other forms, in many other forms. Just like arca. Arca means the form of the Lord situated, I mean to say, established in some temple and worshiped. That is also incarnation of God. That is not idol worship. People do not know that this is an authorized process of realizing God, or they have never tasted or practiced it. They cannot understand. They say it is idol worship. No. It is not idol worship. It is not idol worship. I'll give you one example. Just like in the front of your door there is a box—"U.S. Mail," it is written. And you put your letters within that box, and after few days you get reply from your friend that "I have received your letter, and this is such and such, such and such." Now, if somebody puts another box like that, exactly imitation: "Then why shall I spend postage to putting letters in this box, U.S. Mail? I require postage. But then why shall I not put up a box like that? Let me prepare a box like that so that it can go without postage. I want to save postage." Now, he is going on, putting letters in that without postage. And after sometimes he sees all the letters are lying there; it has not been dispatched—because it is imitation. And the box which is supplied by the post office, that is authorized. In the matter, in material, you will find this box and that imitation box is the same thing. So this is a science. You see. Although we find that "This form of the Lord... The Hindus, they have established one statue in the temple, and they are worshiping as the Lord? How is that? Is it Lord is a stone? It is wood?" But he does not know that because it is authorized, because it is authorizedly worshiped, therefore even it is stone or wood, it can act. It can act. Just like the authorized post office, although seemingly it is a box which I can prepare, but it is acting because it is authorized, similarly, the authorized, authorized symbol or representation of God is also God. He's not different from God. Then why God is like that? It is His mercy. Because I cannot see God with my these eyes—I can see stone and wood and material things—therefore God is kind enough (to appear) in a form suitable to my seeing and accept my service. It is His kindness. And besides that, if everything is God, because everything has link with the God, with the Supreme Truth, then God, being omnipotent, why He cannot represent Himself in everything? If everything is God, everything is emanation of God, then God has got the power to manifest Himself in everything. That is His omnipotency. So these are consideration.
So the explanation of Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare is addressing, addressing the Supreme Lord through the energy, Hara. Hara is the energy, internal energy. Just like when there is... Of course, in your country there is no sun worship, but in India there are persons who are sun worshipers. So they worship sun with so many things. And there is a lamp also. Now, this lamp is a light, but it is being offered for satisfying the sun. Now, sun is so lightful, this light is merely insignificant before the sunlight. But still, because I have no other means, I am getting a sunlight, imitation of that light, and offering, and that offering is accepted. So these are spiritual conception. When we gradually make our progressive advancement, these things will be realized. But for the present we can take this instruction from authorized scripture that,
ataḥ śrī-kṛṣṇa-nāmādi
na bhaved grāhyam indriyaiḥ
sevonmukhe hi jihvādau
svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ
[Cc. Madhya 17.136]
The God's name, God's form, God's quality, God's paraphernalia, God's entourage, like that, and anything in relation to God cannot be realized with our present senses. But when we are in service attitude, then God is so merciful, He is so pleased, that our tiny efforts to realize Him attracts Him, and He becomes manifested gradually as we make our progress in spiritual service or devotional service.
So this method, chanting, chanting of the transcendental name of the Supreme Lord, is a part of devotional service. There are nine kinds of devotional services, of which
These are different, nine processes. Śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam. Śravaṇam means hearing, and kīrtanam means chanting, chanting. So by this process... Just like I chant and you hear, and you chant and I hear. Parasparam. Bodhayantaḥ parasparam. This is the factual activities of devotion in devotional society. This bodhayantaḥ parasparam: I chant, you hear, and you chant, I hear. So by this process, the transcendental name, the sound incarnation of the Supreme Lord, becomes manifest, manifest so that we can realize God simply by chanting and hearing. Simply by chanting and hearing that will be realized. Of course, there are some rules and regulations for chanting, but in the beginning we haven't got to observe those rules and regulation at the present. First of all let us have the taste for chanting; then we shall be little careful that the rules and regulations are followed. In the beginning, if we stick up to the... Rules and regulations are subordinate, subordinate thing. Just like you enter into an office. You are appointed in some office to work. So on the very day, you do not know all the rules and regulations. But because you do not know all the rules and regulation, that does not mean that you cannot be appointed. First of all let yourself be appointed. Now, working, working, yourself you will know that rules and regulations: "This is the rules, and this is the regulation." Just like in my life, I will say one instance. When I met my spiritual master, Bhaktisiddhānta Sarasvatī Gosvāmī Mahārāja, so as a gentleman meets as a gentleman, so he was sitting in a couch like that. So, and I also sat down on that very couch. So I did not know that what are the rules and regulations. Now, when I saw that his other disciples are coming, and they are sitting down, (laughs) so I thought myself, "Oh, I have done this wrong. I should not have sat with His Divine Grace." So of course, I did not get down immediately, but I took it, and from next day I did not sit. So rules and regulations automatically was taught. So that rules and regulations is not very important. The important is... The thing is that we must take up. The first rules and regulation is that we must have some attachment for this. Attachment for this. Then, automatically, rules and regulation we shall learn. There will be no difficulty.
So this transcendental sound, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare, you don't think that I have come here—it is my personal manufacture. No. It is not. No. It is not my personal manufacture. It is authorized just like the post box is authorized, because all previous ācāryas, all previous authorized persons in this line, they have done it. Just like see Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He is chanting and dancing, chanting and dancing, you see, the same thing. This picture is before you so that gradually, when you feel ecstasy, you will also dance like Him. And when you automatically dance, then you will know that the thing is already realized. Not artificially, but when you feel, "Oh, let me dance. It is so much ecstatic. Let me dance." Nothing should be done artificially. Let everything come automatically. And only we have to follow. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. Dharmasya tattvaṁ nihitaṁ guhāyāṁ mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ. This is a verse from scripture, that tarko apratiṣṭhaḥ, if you simply go on arguing about spiritual matters—"This is not, this is not, this is not, yes, this is not..." I say something; you say something. No, no, no. You cannot realize spiritual objects simply by this speculation, argument. Our argument or logical, I mean to say, strength has no access in the spiritual world. The Vedic mantra says, nāyam ātmā pravacanena labhyo na medhayā na bahunā śrutena: "Atma, the supreme self, cannot be realized pravacanena." Suppose I am very expert speaker, I can present things very nicely—but without any substance. Oh, that won't help you. Simply by jugglery of words, if I can captivate you, oh, that won't help you. Nāyam ātmā pravacanena. This is pravacana.
Of course, we are delivering speeches from authoritative book, Bhagavad-gītā. I am not speaking before you of my own imagination. I am speaking from the authorized book. Therefore it is not exactly pravacana, neither I am squeezing out some meaning for my purpose. I am just presenting you the same principle. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. As Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu preached, I am trying to present the same thing before you in a different language only. That's all. Because in India He preached in Sanskrit. He was a very learned scholar in Sanskrit. Formerly, any big man, any big scholar, they would be big scholar in Sanskrit. Sanskrit was the written language. Even in the beginning of the British period, Sanskrit was written language. It is the policy of Lord McCauley that he transformed the whole attitude. They made a plan that "If Indians remain as Indian, then we cannot rule over. Then we cannot rule over. We must make them Anglicized." So that policy was followed for two hundred years, so India has lost its original culture. So therefore the original point is that tarko apratiṣṭhaḥ. We cannot realize the Supreme Truth simply by argument or logical presentation or philosophical speculation. No. Tarko apratiṣṭhaḥ śrutayo vibhinnā [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. Śrutayo means scriptures. Now say, for example, Bhagavad-gītā and your Bible and the Muhammadans, they'll present Koran. So of course, this Bhagavad-gītā is little different from Vedic scripture. That we have already explained. It is an independent something, universal. So Vedic scripture, Koran, Bible, or Zoroastrian... There are so many religions, Buddhist religion, so many. So there may be some difference of opinion. Śrutayor vibhinnā. Vibhinnā means different. Now, you cannot realize the Absolute Truth simply by your mundane arguments and by your logical strength, neither you can catch up the right thing by reading different scriptures. Śrutayor vibhinnā. Nāsau munir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam. And if you follow great philosophers, great thinkers, then also you will find one thinker is different from another thinker, one philosopher is differing from another philosopher. So whom to follow? This philosopher says that God is a person; another philosopher says God is imperson; another philosopher says that God is everywhere and there is no separate existence of God. So many philosophies there are in the world. And one person is not actually philosopher if he does not differ from other philosophers. That is the philosophical basic principle. You are a philosopher. If I cannot make your philosophical conclusion null and void and make my philosophy established, then I am not a philosopher. You see? That is the way, going on. Nāsau munir yasya mataṁ na bhinnam: "He is not a philosopher if he cannot present a separate theory." He is not a philosopher.
Then how to catch up the Absolute Truth? What is the way? Now, dharmasya tattvaṁ nihitaṁ guhāyām: "Therefore the Absolute Truth is concealed within your heart." Nihitaṁ guhāyām. Now, mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ: [Cc. Madhya 17.186] "You just try to follow the great personalities, what they are doing, what they are doing." Now, about this mahājana, there is also difference of opinion who is mahājana. But so far our Vedic culture is concerned, there are specific mention, mahājana. And so far Lord Kṛṣṇa is concerned, so there is no two opinions about His authority throughout the whole world. And so far we are concerned, Hindus, or the followers of the Vedic religion, there is no difference of opinion so far Kṛṣṇa's authority is concerned. There are five authorities, recognized authorities, in India so far this is..., spiritual life is concerned. One of them is Śrī Rāmānujācārya and other is Śaṅkarācārya. The other is Madhvācārya, other is Viṣṇu Svāmī, and other Nimbārka, Nimbāditya (?). Principal. The whole, I mean, some of them flourished, say, two thousand years before; some of them 1,500 years before; some of them eleven hundred years before. Just like there are different ages, they have come. But all of them, in spite of their coming in different ages, they all are in one opinion—kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam: [SB 1.3.28] "Kṛṣṇa, Lord Kṛṣṇa, is the Supreme Personality of Godhead." Just like we have cited, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1]: "The supreme controller, the Supreme Lord, is Kṛṣṇa." Now, we can see from His presentation of this Bhagavad-gītā how supreme He is. He spoke this truth five thousand years before, and continually, for five thousand years, all scholars are studying this scripture, and studying very devotedly to understand it. You know our present president in India, Dr. Radhakrishnan. He is a renowned scholar of the world, Dr. Radhakrishnan. When he came to your country, your president, late Mr. Kennedy, oh, he welcomed him as his own teacher, because when Mr. Kennedy was a student in the Oxford University, Dr. Radhakrishnan was a visiting professor. In the open meeting Mr. Kennedy admitted that "Now Dr. Radhakrishnan has come as the president, but he is always my teacher. He is still my teacher." It was very kind of him that he received him as a teacher, not as contemporary. So even that Dr. Radhakrishnan, he is also studying this Bhagavad-gītā very, I mean to say, profoundly. You know your Professor Einstein. Oh, he was a profound, I mean to say, student of this Bhagavad-gītā. Hitler was a great student of Bhagavad-gītā. So many, in all the countries. There are so many Muhammadans in India, oh, they are devout student of Bhagavad-gītā. I know one Dr. Inrai(?) of Allahabad University. Oh, he is so devoted to Lord Kṛṣṇa that on the birthday of Lord Kṛṣṇa he must write one nice article and publish in the paper. So this instruction, that mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ... [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. We cannot have the knowledge of the Absolute Truth simply by argument or simply by philosophy or simply by big brain or speaking power. No, no. All these things will not do. Simply we have to follow the great authority.
So Lord Kṛṣṇa, Lord Caitanya, He introduced this Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare for this age. And He recommended, kalau... Not recommended by His own brain, but it is recommended in the scriptures:
harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam
kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā
[Cc. Ādi 17.21]
If you want to realize the Supreme Truth, then you must realize this: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, whenever you get... Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam: "Only this." And if you think, "Oh, only this? Why not other?" No. Kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā. Nāsty eva means "There is no alternative." And He repeats this: "no alternative, no alternative, no alternative," three times. Three times. That means He is giving too much stress. So our process is like that, that we are following a great personality, Lord Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu. He introduced from the scripture, not in His own way. Nothing should be accepted which is not recognized. You see? So this is recognized method. Now it depends on us. Let us follow this process and see how we are making progress in the spiritual path. You see?
Thank you very much. Now, if there is any question, you can raise. (end)

Los Angeles, February 2, 1968
This verse was composed by Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya. You know Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya? You have not heard?
Devotees: Yes.
Prabhupāda: Who was he? Who was Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya?
Nandarāṇī: He was a great impersonalist who was converted by Lord Caitanya to Vaiṣṇavism.
Prabhupāda: Yes. And Nandarāṇī knows better than you. (laughter) So girls are intelligent. Yes. Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya was a great impersonalist and a great logician. The impersonalist school, amongst them, there are very, very learned scholars. Śaṅkarācārya himself, he was unique scholar. At the age of eight years only, he studied all the Vedas. And not only he studied, he became a critical student, Śaṅkarācārya. He was incarnation of Lord Śiva; therefore nobody can be compared with him.
So amongst the impersonalist school, there are many great logicians and high class scholars. But according to Vedic principles, God realization does not depend on material intelligence or scholarship. It is stated in the Vedas, nāyam ātmā pravacanena labhyaḥ: "You cannot realize the self simply by arguments or very scholarly speeches." No. Nāyam ātmā pravacanena labhyo na bahunā śrutena: "Neither by studying many, many different types of Vedic literatures." Nāyam ātmā pravacanena labhyo na bahunā śrutena na medhayā: "Neither by sharp brain or memory." These are good qualifications—to be scholarly, to be a very good speaker, and to have very good memorizing power. These are materially very good qualifications. But they are not qualification for realizing God. Then what is the qualification of realizing God? Yam evaiṣa vṛṇute tena labhyaḥ: "God can be realized only to whom He reveals-labhyaḥ Kaṭha Upaniṣad 1.2.23." You cannot oblige God to become manifest before you because you are very good scholar or you are a very rich man or you are very good looking or you have got very good memorizing power. No. Yam evaiṣa vṛṇute. When He is pleased, then He reveals unto the devotee. Therefore our business should be, for God realization, to please Him. And that pleasing process is this devotional service. Let us engage in His service, and when He becomes pleased, "Yes. He's very sincerely..." Just like the gopīs. They were village girls, not even born of very high family. Cowherds, ordinary agriculturists, cowherds men. So their daughters. So how much education you can...? There was no education practically. In the village even men... In India still, they are ninety-percent illiterate. And what to speak of the girls, the men are not even literate. Because according to Vedic civilization it was not necessary that everyone should go to school. There was no necessity. Because things were being learned by śruti, by aural reception. Knowledge from the perfect man, one would hear, and he would become learned. There was no necessity of, I mean to say, learning ABCD. No. Even in Vedic age, everything was memorized. There was nothing in writing. People were so sharp in brain that once heard from the spiritual master, they will never forget. The brahmacārī system made their brain so powerful that whatever they will hear from the spiritual master, they will keep in the brain and never forget. They will repeat verbatim. Smṛti. It is called retaining power.
So God realization does not depend on material opulence. Material opulence means to take birth in high family, janma. Janma means high parentage. Then... Janmaiśvarya, and wealthy, great riches. These are material opulences: high parentage, great riches, and great learning, and great beauty. These four things are material opulences. Janmaiśvarya-śruta-śrī [SB 1.8.26]. Janma means birth, aiśvarya means wealth, and śruta means education, and śrī means beauty. So for God realization these things are not essential, but Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement can utilize everything. So nothing is neglected. That is another point. But if somebody thinks that "I have got all these opulences; therefore God realization is very easy for me," no, that is not. So God realization depends on God, because God, you cannot oblige God by some force. Just like if you have got money, oh, you can do anything nowadays. If you have got strength of wealth, you can have any power, you can do anything. But that does not mean that you can purchase God. No. That is not possible. If you have got beauty, you can conquer over very stalwart, very strong men. Just like what is the... Cleopatra. You have heard the Grecian history. She was very beautiful, and she conquered many great warriors. So beauty sometimes can conquer even the greatest man, but that does not mean beauty can conquer God. No. That is not possible. So the vairāgya-vidyā-nija-bhakti-yoga [Cc. Madhya 6.254]. To conquer God is bhakti. If you are advanced in devotional service, then you can conquer God. Just like the gopīs, as I was speaking, their parentage was not very high, not at all high. Village, agriculturists, farmers, no education, practical... No education at all. And they were not rich at all. Agriculturists, farmers, they are not very rich. So how they conquered Kṛṣṇa? Kṛṣṇa was just a play toy in their hands. Gopī-bhāva-rasāmṛtābdhi-laharī. They conquered Kṛṣṇa simply by devotional service. That's all. They did not know anything except Kṛṣṇa. They did not, I mean to say, care anything. Simply they were..., always they were thinking of Kṛṣṇa. The one instance of their absorption in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is explained, that when Kṛṣṇa was going on the pasturing ground, the gopīs were crying at home. Why? They were thinking that "Kṛṣṇa's body is so delicate, so soft, that we, when we take His lotus feet and place on our breast or chest, we think it is hard, very hard for Him. So Kṛṣṇa is walking in the forest. There are so many particles of stones. They are pricking, and how much Kṛṣṇa is feeling pain." This thinking made, caused their crying, "How Kṛṣṇa is feeling pain." And the whole day, they will think of Kṛṣṇa like that, and when Kṛṣṇa will come back from the pasturing ground, then they will be relieved that "Kṛṣṇa has now come back." This was their business. Now, this sort of thinking of Kṛṣṇa does not require any riches or any high parentage or any beauty or any education. So we have to develop such Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Our, this Gauḍīya-sampradāya, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's, in Caitanya Mahāprabhu's descendants, our line of God realization is that separation, feeling of separation. Not that we have got Kṛṣṇa within our hand. No. The feeling of separation, worship of Kṛṣṇa by feeling of separation is better than the worship by directly meeting. Vipralambha-sevā.
So this vairāgya-vidyā, renunciation... Vairāgya-vidyā-nija-bhakti-yoga [Cc. Madhya 6.254]. Bhakti-yoga means vairāgya-vidyā. Vairāgya-vidyā means no more attachment for this material world. That is vairāgya. So bhakti-yoga means vairāgya-vidyā. So this Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya said, vairāgya-vidyā-nija-bhakti-yogam. This vairāgya-vidyā means bhakti-yogam..., śikṣārtham ekaḥ puruṣaḥ purāṇaḥ. So Kṛṣṇa, the supreme original personality, He has come down to teach us this vairāgya-vidyā. Vairāgya-vidyā-nija-bhakti-yoga-śikṣārtham ekaḥ puruṣaḥ purāṇaḥ, śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya-śarīra-dhārī [Cc. Madhya 6.254]. Śrī-kṛṣṇa-caitanya. Śrī Kṛṣṇa has appeared in the form of Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya. So Sārvabhauma Bhaṭṭācārya says, "My respectful obeisances unto Him." So naturally this context came into my mind—these boys' vairāgya. So one who becomes advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, naturally they become disinterested for any material pompous name.(?) They do not care. So vairāgya. This bhakti-yoga means vairāgya-vidyā. You can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. [break]
Karandhara: ...Vaiṣṇava earlier.
Prabhupāda: Oh. What is the price of this?
Gargamuni: No charge.
Prabhupāda: No. What do they sell?
Gargamuni: Oh. This drum was broken, but he gave it to us free. I do not know what the...
Prabhupāda: It was, it is broken?
Gargamuni: It was broken, but we fixed it.
Prabhupāda: Oh. All right. When they give in charity, they give something broken. (laughter) (Bengali) Khana goruke brāhmaṇake dana (?). In India there is a..., charity is given to the brāhmaṇas. So a man saw that his cow is blind. "All right, give it in charity." So charity means... Charity should be the first-class thing if it is really charity. But nowadays people give in charity just for name. "Oh, I am giving something." This charity... You have read Bhagavad-gītā. There are three kinds of charity: sattvic, rajasic, tamasic. Sattvic, charity in goodness, is with due consideration that "Here should be given the charity." Just like the Vedic injunction is to give charity to the brāhmaṇas. Why? That is the worthy place, to give charity in the hands of brāhmaṇas and Vaiṣṇava. Real brāhmaṇas. I don't say caste brāhmaṇa. Because they will employ whatever you give them in the service of the Lord. Therefore charity, that is sattvic charity. There is no question of profit or name. But, "Charity should be given here. Here is something, God's service." That is sattvic. And rajasic means for the sake of name. "Oh, people will say I am so charitable." That is rajasic. And tamasic, one who does not know where the money is going... Just like in the Bowery Street some, that drunkard comes and polishes the motorcar, and somebody gives five dollars, and he immediately goes to drink. That means this charity means give him impetus for drinking. So if charity creates such drunkard, oh, that is very dangerous. He has to suffer, the man who is giving in charity. Therefore in charity also there must be consideration. It must be sattvic. So anyway, it has come here. So it is sattvic. Whatever his mind may be, anyway, he has given to this temple; so it is sattvic. Chant. (end)

San Francisco, April 2, 1968
Prabhupāda: ...consciousness movement was started five hundred years before by Lord Caitanya. This is not a new movement. Practically, it is as old as the creation of this world, but as things change in course of time, so it required rejuvenation. So this movement was rejuvenated about five hundred years ago. Before that, Lord Kṛṣṇa... You might have heard His name. Most of you have read Bhagavad-gītā, the famous philosophical doctrine of Indian Vedānta philosophy. Lord Kṛṣṇa instructed Bhagavad-gītā in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra five thousand years ago. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means the last instruction of the Bhagavad-gītā. In the Bhagavad-gītā we find everything complete so far God consciousness is required. The first and foremost qualification to understand the science of God or to become Kṛṣṇa conscious is to understand yourself. The first thing is what you are or what I am. In the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra this perplexed question was there before Arjuna. Arjuna was to fight with his brothers and relatives on the other side to decide who shall be the emperor of the region. So in the Battlefield of Kurukṣetra, when he actually came in front of his relatives, he decided that "It is no good fighting with my relatives and taking the kingdom. Better I shall beg. I don't want this kingdom." That is a very nice proposal, nonviolence, not to fight. But on this point the Bhagavad-gītā, or the science of God, developed from the lips of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa.
Kṛṣṇa said that "Why you are deviating from your duty? You are kṣatriya. Your business is to fight." Now this term kṣatriya also to be understood. Kṣatriya means one who protects others from being hurt by others. This material world is so made that everyone is prepared to attack another person. And one who protects that person who is attacked, he is called kṣatriya. And the kṣatriyas were in charge of administration. That means the person who can protect the citizen from being hurt or from suffering, they are called kṣatriyas. So just like it is the duty of the police department or law order department to protect the citizens, and sometimes violence is required, similarly, the kṣatriyas also were meant for that purpose, and they were entrusted with the administration of the government. So when Arjuna decided not to fight, Kṛṣṇa instructed him this Bhagavad-gītā. It is very interesting. He said that "You do not deviate from your duty. Do not think that you are killing your relatives, because you, Me, and all the persons who have assembled in this battlefield, they were existing before, they are existing at the present moment, and they will continue to exist. It is simply changing the dress." That means you, I, or all of us present here, we are all individual spirit souls and we are present here as in different dress. Similarly, we are present here in this world and in any other world with different kinds of bodies. According to Vedic literature there are 8,400,000's of different kinds of bodies. So He gave very nice example. If we study this example with little intelligence, we can understand this doctrine of transmigration of the soul very quickly.
Lord Kṛṣṇa said,
This is Sanskrit language. I'll explain it in English. He said that within this body there is soul, and the body is changing every moment, but the soul is there. He is giving example, just as a soul comes from the womb of his mother with a small body, and that small body changes—it becomes the body of a boy, it becomes the body of a youth, then it becomes the body of an old man, then it vanquishes... That we have to admit. We may say that the body is growing, but actually, the fact is, body is changing. It is medically admitted that we are changing our body every second. We are changing our blood corpuscles, and therefore a change of the body is taking place, and that is being manifested in a different shape only. Actually, we are changing every moment our body. So the ultimate change, when this body cannot be worked any more, just like a dress, when it is torn, when it is too old, you have to change it. Similarly, when this body becomes useless, no more, it cannot be pulled on any more, you take another body. Tathā dehāntara-prāptir. As we are, in our practical life, we are changing our body every moment, similarly, the last stage of changing this body is called death. Death means, according to Vedic literature, sleeping for seven months. Just as I give up this body, I have to enter into the womb of some kind of mother. These things are explained in the Vedic literatures. I am not manufacturing. That karmaṇā dehopapattaye. We are preparing our next life, next body rather... Life is continuing. I am eternal. Next body—according to my present one. Just like in this meeting we have got two hundred ladies and gentlemen, but you cannot find out any lady or any gentleman exactly like the feature of the other. Differences. That means different consciousness, different work, and we have got different body. According to Bhagavad-gītā, the soul is transmigrating from one body to another, but the soul is eternal and permanent. And there are evolutionary process also. There are nine million species of life in the water. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. And the trees and plants are two million. Similarly, there are reptiles, birds, then beasts, three million beast life, beastly life. Then at the end, we come to the form of this human being, and there are four hundred thousand species of different kinds of bodies. Just like your body in America and our body in India, there is some difference. Similarly, there are four hundred thousands of human form of life. So this is the process of evolution. And these bodily changes are taking place according to different consciousness. And the highest perfectional consciousness is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. When we come to the point of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then our life becomes perfect.
So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is just an endeavor to bring people to the original consciousness. The consciousness is... [break] And as we are forming our consciousness, so we are changing our body. If we make our consciousness doggish or hellish, then we get the body of a dog or an animal or something like that. And if we make our consciousness godly, then we make our next life as good as God. This is the process. So we have to... This is the opportunity. The highest intellectual form of human body when every, the senses perception, sense perception, consciousness, everything is perfect—we have to utilize that for becoming Kṛṣṇa consciousness so that our this process of birth and death can be stopped and we get our eternal body. If we practice this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then our next life is as good as Kṛṣṇa, which means that there is no more birth, there is no more death, there is no more disease and no more old age. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that one who is intelligent, he will see four things before him. You may be very great scientist. You may be very much advanced in material science. You may be able to construct very high building, skyscrapers, and many millions of motorcars, but you have to think whether you have solved the real problem of life. The real problem of life is birth, death, disease, and old age. Not that to live in a high skyscraper our problems of life is solved. No. The problem of life is how to stop these four things: birth, death, old age, and disease. But we have neglected the real problems of life. And we are misusing our intelligence for constructing big buildings and constructing or increasing the so-called bodily necessities of life. The bodily necessities of life are four only. What is that? Eating, sleeping, mating, and defending. To maintain this body you require to eat something. Everyone is eating. You are eating, the cats are eating, the dogs are eating, the birds are eating. They have no economic problem. Eating is there already. Have you seen ever that a bird is dying for want of eating, eatables? No. So these things are already arranged. That is no problem. In every form of life your eatables are there by nature's supply. Similarly sleeping. The bird is sleeping, the dog is sleeping, the cat is sleeping, and you are also sleeping. But you have got a very nice apartment. Does it mean that you have solved the problem of sleeping? No. Then defending. The birds, the dogs, the cats, the animals, everyone knows how to defend in their own way. You go every day in the, what is called, Stowe Lake path. And as soon as you go, the swans immediately jump to the water because that is their defending. As soon as they go to the water, they know that "These human beings, they cannot come to the water. We are now secure." So that defending process is there even in the swans, in the birds, in everything. You don't think that because we have manufactured atomic bombs, therefore we have become very good. What is this atomic bomb? Killing. Killing is going on. Have you manufactured anything by which you can save from death?
So our problems of life, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, is to solve these four things: no more birth... Because we are... Always remember that we are all eternal. Just like in this body, beginning from my mother's womb up to this old age, I am the same eternal soul, but my body is changing. So after changing this body also, I shall remain the same. Simply I shall have another body. This plain truth, there is no difficulty to understand. Now if I am eternal... If I am eternal means no death, no birth, no disease, no old age. That is eternal. So if I am eternal, whether it is possible to get an eternal body? Or eternal happiness? That is the problem of human society. If you can solve that problem, then you be proud of your civilization. Otherwise there is no difference between cats' and dogs' civilization and your civilization. Because you are simply trying to solve the problems of eating, sleeping, defending and mating. But these problems are already solved by nature's law.
So our developed intelligence should be utilized for solving these problems by Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are presenting this movement before you, your country, because you are intelligent, you are materially advanced. You are greater than all other countries. Therefore I present this movement, scientific movement before you. You just try to understand it. Lord Caitanya's movement... This is Lord Caitanya's movement. And the author of Caitanya-caritāmṛta... That is in Sanskrit. We have translated it into English, Teachings of Lord Caitanya. If you like, you can purchase that book. So in that book it is stated that caitanyera dayāra kathā karaha vicāra. "Ladies and gentlemen, you just..., scrutinizingly you try to understand the mercy of Lord Caitanya, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, how it is solving the problems of our life." Vicāra karile citte pābe camatkāra. If you scrutinizingly test it and try to understand this movement, then you'll feel yourself that it is wonderful. And actually it is wonderful. So... And the process is also very simple. You do not require to be highly educated or philosopher or talented or rich or poor, or black and white. Doesn't matter what you are. It is universal. Any human being with little intelligence, he can understand. And even he does not understand, this process is so nice that if you continue this process for a few weeks you'll be able to understand. This chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare is transcendental vibration, sound. Sound is the origin of all creation. So this transcendental sound, if you vibrate, you will understand very quickly this philosophy of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And there is no loss on your part. Suppose you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa; you do not lose anything. But if there is any gain, why don't you try it? We simply request you with folded hands that you kindly chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. We are simply requesting you. We're not asking you to pay us something or to suffer something or be educated or be engineer or be lawyer, then come to us. Never mind what you are. Stay in your position. Simply try to chant these sixteen words, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. You can try for one week. And there is no hard and fast rules. You can chant anywhere and everywhere. While walking you can chant, while driving you can chant. Nobody is going to tax, that "You are chanting. Give me this tax." It is very easy.
So kīrtanīyaḥ sadā hariḥ [Cc. Ādi 17.31]. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. If you chant, the result will be that your mind will be cleansed. The whole misunderstanding is that "I am not this body. I am spirit soul. But I am identifying myself with this body—'I am Indian,' 'I am American,' 'I am Christian,' 'I am Hindu.' " These are all your designations. You are spirit soul. Just try to understand that you are spirit soul, and try to understand on the platform of spiritual understanding. All problems will be solved. And so long you are standing on this designated platform—"I am American," "I am Indian," "I am this," "I am that"—there is no solution of problems. Take it for granted. There is no solution of problem. You stand on this platform of spiritual understanding; there will be solution of all problems. This is authentic, and those who have followed, they have got result. And take it from me that there is no cheating, there is no bluff. Simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, and see the result practically. With my request, you can chant for one week and see the result. We are always prepared to serve you. We have got our temple here. Not only here, we have got our temple in Los Angeles, we have got our temple in New York, in Santa Fe, Montreal, Boston, and recently we're trying to open one temple in Buffalo. And two of my students, they have gone to Florida. They are also trying to open. So it is very nice movement, and it is very easy to chant. Now before me... I am Indian, you are all Americans. This Hare Kṛṣṇa, this vibration may be foreign to you, but there is no difficulty to chant. The words may be in Sanskrit, but it is not difficult to chant. And if you simply chant, you get the result because it is transcendental vibration. Just like when television or radio vibration is there, either in India, America, everywhere the vibration is equally beneficial. Similarly, this transcendental vibration is coming down from the transcendental world. It is not material sound. It is not hackneyed. If you chant, if you practice, you'll realize it. So our request is that without any charges, without any fee, without any bluff, we say that you please chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare.
Thank you very much. [break] Raghupati rāghava rāja rāma. Can you sing? I'll sing if you can repeat. You can note down. Raghupati rāghava rāja rāma, patita-pāvana sītā-rāma. Can anyone play in this harmonium melodious?
Devotees: Mālatī. [break]
Prabhupāda: ...rāghava rāja rāma, patita-pāvana sītā-rāma. R-a-g-h-u-p-a-t-i. Raghupati. Rāghava, r-a-g-h-a-v-a. Raghupati rāghava rāja, r-a-j-a, rāja, rāma, r-a-m-a. Raghupati rāghava rāja rāma. Patita, p-a-t-i-t-a, pāvana, p-a-v-a-n-a. Patita-pāvana sītā-rāma, s-i-t-a-r-a-m-a. Raghupati rāghava. (end)
Lecture to Technology Students (M.I.T.)

Boston, May 5, 1968
oṁ ajñāna-timirāndhasya
cakṣur unmīlitaṁ yena
tasmai śrī-gurave namaḥ
[I offer my respectful obeisances unto my spiritual master, who with the torchlight of knowledge has opened my eyes, which were blinded by the darkness of ignorance.]
This prayer is offering respectful obeisances to the spiritual master. Why? Because the spiritual master is the person who opens our eyes, complicated in ignorance, with the torch of transcendental knowledge. Timirāndhasya. Every one of us born ignorant, and we require specific education and training for seeing things as they are. Today I am very glad to meet you. You are all students of technology. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is also another technology. Unfortunately, in the modern state of civilization there are different department of knowledge. There is department of teaching medical science, there is department of teaching engineering, there is department of educating—so many other departments of knowledge. Unfortunately, there is no department for distributing knowledge in the science of the soul. But that is the important, most important thing, because the soul is the mainstay, is the background of all our movements.
In the Bhagavad-gītā there is a nice verse:
indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur
indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ
manasas tu parā buddhir
yo buddheḥ paratas tu saḥ
[Bg. 3.42]
The idea is that in the present consciousness I am thinking that I am this body, although actually I am not this body. This is ignorance. And body means the senses. I am acting means... Just like I am talking. That means I am using my tongue for vibration. So these bodily activities means sensual activities. But if you go deep into the matter, the senses can only act when the mind is sound. If the mind is not sound, a crazy man or a madman cannot use his senses properly. Therefore higher science. First of all technology of the senses, and then, next higher technology is of the mind, which is known as psychology. Thinking, feeling, willing. They are trying to understand how they are working. And above this mind, mental science, there is the science of intelligence. And above the science of intelligence, the background is the soul. Unfortunately, we have got technology for the bodily senses, we have got technology for psychology, but we have neither any technology for intelligence nor for any technology in the science of the soul. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is the technology of the science of soul.
There is a nice story. You'll appreciate it. In India, especially in Bengal, there are many rivers. The land is full of rivers. Because it is on the bank of the Bay of Bengal, all rivers are falling. Therefore Bengal, the land of, especially the east Bengal, is full of rivers. One student of technology was going home, and he was on the boat. So the student was asking the boatman, "Do you know what are the stars?" The boatman said, "Sir, we are ordinary boatman. What do we know about these stars?" "Oh. Then your fifty percent of life is wasted, useless." Then he was asking, "Do you know what are these trees? Do you know any science of botany?" He said, "Sir, we are ordinary laborer. What do we know about botany?" "Oh. Then seventy-five percent of your life is useless." In this way the student of technology was asking the boatman, "Do you know this? Do you know that?" And he said that "I am ordinary man. What do I know all these things?" Then all of a sudden there was a black cloud, and there was storm, and the river began to be inflated, and the boatman said, "My dear sir, do you know swimming?" "Oh," he said, "no." Then he said, "Then your cent percent knowledge is spoiled. Now you have to go down to the river. Your life is finished." In this way they dropped in the river, and the technological student, because he did not know how to swim, so the storm and the waves grabbed him.
The idea is that we are making progress, certainly, in technology, in economics, in so many other departments of human necessities. But Bhagavad-gītā says that real problem of this world, or real problem of our life, it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]. If you are intelligent enough, then you should see the real problem is birth, death, old age and disease. Janma means birth, and mṛtyu means death. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā. Jarā means old age, and vyādhi means disease. So actual material problem is this, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. We have forgotten that "In the abdomen of my mother, how precarious condition I was living in." Of course, we can know from the description of medical science or any other science how the child is packed up there and how much suffering is there. The worms bite the child and he cannot express; he suffers the suffering. Similarly, the mother eats something and the pungent taste also gives him suffering. So these descriptions are there in the śāstras, in the scriptures and authentic Vedic literature, how the child suffers within the abdomen of mother. So these are the sufferings of birth. At least, one child has to remain in that air-packed condition at least for ten months. Now just imagine if you are put into that air-packed condition for three minutes now, you will immediately die. But actually, we had that experience to remain in the mother's womb in that air-packed condition for ten months. So suffering was there, but because the child was incapable of expressing, therefore... Or his consciousness was not so elevated. He could not cry, but the suffering was there. Similarly, at the time of death there is suffering. Similarly, old man. Just like us, we have got so many complaints, bodily complaints. Because now everything, the anatomical or physiological condition, is deteriorating. The stomach is not digesting foodstuff so nicely as when I was young I could digest. So the sufferings are there. Similarly, disease. Who wants disease? So modern technology, they have advanced undoubtedly, but there is no remedy for, I mean to say, to stop birth, death, old age and disease. This is real problem. But because these problems cannot be solved by the modern scientific advancement of knowledge, they have practically set aside or neglected because they cannot solve it.
But there is a solution. There is a solution. That solution of this problem is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, that,
"My dear Arjuna, if somebody comes to Me..." "Me" means here the Supreme Personality of Godhead is saying, Kṛṣṇa. "If somebody comes to Me, then he hasn't got to take birth again in this miserable material condition." Duḥkhālayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. Duḥkhālayam means the place of miseries. We are thinking that we have made a paradise, but actually the place is miserable, because the threefold miseries, they are there. Either in America or in India or in any other country, China, or any other planet, the material miseries which are three kinds, ādhyātmika, ādhibhautika, ādhidaivika... Ādhyātmika means miseries pertaining to the body and the mind. Sometimes we are feeling headaches, sometimes we are feeling some other pains. Any things which are pertaining to the body and mind, there is some pain. These are called ādhyātmika. Similarly, there are other pains, inflicted by other living entities. They are called ādhibhautika. Similarly, other pains also, which is offered by the nature, by the laws of nature. All of a sudden there is earthquake, all of a sudden there is famine, or similar other which we have no control over. So these three kinds of miseries are always there. But under the spell of illusion we are thinking that we are happy. And the illusion means that the material energy is so illusory that however a living entity may be in abominable condition, he thinks that he is happy. You take any animal, just like take the hog—that life is most filthy life. Of course, you have no experience to see in your city, hogs. In India there are many hogs in the city, and they are living in filthy place—they are eating stool, and most abominable life. But even you ask a hog that "You are living in such abominable condition. Let me do you something good," he'll refuse to accept. If you give him something, nice preparation, as we have got in India, halavā, he'll not accept it. He will accept stool, because his body is meant for that purpose and he will not like any palatable foodstuff. He will like that stool. This is the spell of māyā.
So Kṛṣṇa consciousness means that if we want, if we are actually educated, then we must try to question that "Why I am suffering?" This is called brahma-jijñāsā. In the Vedānta-sūtra the first aphorism is athāto brahma jijñāsā. One should inquire about his existence as soul, not as body or as mind. Because he is neither body nor mind. So this Vedānta-sūtra says that athāto brahma jijñāsā. Atha ataḥ means this is the time, this human form of life, developed consciousness, with greater intelligence than the animals, one should inquire about his spiritual existence. That is real technology. And Śrīmad-Bhāgavata says that parābhavas tāvad abodha-jāto yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. So long one does not inquire about his spiritual existence... Every one of us is born ignorant because we do not know what is our real identity. Generally, we accept that "I am this body," but actually I am not this body. These things can be understood very easily. Suppose you are seeing all along a friend. All of a sudden he dies and you say, "My friend is gone." Well, your friend is lying there with all the body, hands, legs, everything. He's lying there. Why do you say that your friend is gone? Then you have never seen your friend. You have seen only his bodily structure. That's all. Similarly, at the present moment the humanitarian work is going on, but we do not know what is the basic principle of humanitarian work. The Bhāgavata answers this: yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke [SB 10.84.13]. A person who is in the knowledge that "I am this body and...," sva-dhīḥ kalatrādiṣu bhauma-ijya-dhīḥ, and if one thinks that "In relations with this body, my kinsmen, they will protect me," and if he thinks that "The land where the body is grown, that is the worshipable land," then he is, I mean to say, accepted like animal. Sa eva go-kharaḥ [SB 10.84.13].
So these instructions are there. Unfortunately, we have no time, neither we have desire to understand actually what I am, why I am suffering, what is this world, what is my relationship with this world, what is God, what is my relationship with God. These questions are very important questions, and there is technology to understand these questions. And the Śrīmad Bhagavad-gītā or Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Vedānta-sūtra, all these literatures are there. If you kindly, of course, see to these literatures, you'll find the solution of the problems of life. But we are not interested. That is the difficulty. We are thinking that we are happy, we have no problem, although there are so many problems and we are not happy. This is called māyā. Māyā means what is not. means not. means this. This is called māyā. We are thinking that we are happy, but actually we are not happy. And even if we are happy, how long we are happy? Suppose, taking for example you Americans, you are the richest nation of the world. Your material comforts and everything is greater than other countries, standard of living. But just try to think how long you can remain as American. Say, for fifty years or hundred years, at most. Then... But we do not know what is going to happen in my next life because we do not believe in the next life. But actually there is next life. So if you don't take care of my next life and if we irresponsibly waste our valuable human form of life like ordinary animals... The ordinary animals, they demand something for eating, they want to sleep, they want to defend, and they want to mate. So similarly, if human being is also busy with the four principles of bodily demands, namely eating, sleeping, mating and defending, then, according to Vedic literature, it is said that he is not human being. Dharmeṇa hīna paśubhiḥ samānāḥ. If the human being does not understand his real spiritual identity and simply busy with the four demands of bodily necessities, then paśubhiḥ samānāḥhe's as equal as with lower animals, cats and dogs.
So Bhagavad-gītā gives you clue. It is not very difficult to understand this science. The Bhagavad-gītā gives you the information of the spirit soul very simply. The Bhagavad-gītā says,
Just like within this body, when you were a child you were within this body—not exactly this body, but another body, which was so small. Now where is that body? That body is gone. You have got another body. So Bhagavad-gītā says, as we are changing body moment to moment, dehino 'smin yathā dehe... [Bg. 2.13]. Dehinaḥ means the soul, the spirit soul, who is embodied within this body, as he is changing body from moment to moment. This is a fact, a medical fact, that you are changing body every moment. Similarly, the last change is called death. But we have to take..., we have to accept another body. But we do not know what sort of body we are going to accept. That technology is wanting in the modern civilization. But there are 8,400,000's of different bodies, and after leaving this body you may enter any of such bodies. You may become, after leaving this body, you can become American or you can become Indian or you can become Chinaman or you can become god in the moon planet or some other planet, or you can become dog, you can become hog, you can become serpent—anything. That requires... That is under the control of the material nature. That is not under your control. But if you take to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it will be under your control. How it is possible? The Bhagavad-gītā answers this:
If you want to enter into another planet, say moon planet or sun planet or Venus planet... There are innumerable planets. The ultimate, highest planet is called Brahmaloka. And the advantage of going to Brahmaloka is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, that you can get a life, sahasra-yuga-paryantam ahar yad brahmaṇo viduḥ [Bg. 8.17]. You can get there life for millions and millions of years. But still, there is death and there is birth and there is that old age and there is that disease. But mad-dhāma gatvā punar janma na vidyate. But if somebody is transferred to that planet which is called Kṛṣṇaloka, Goloka Vṛndāvana, or Vaikuṇṭha, then one hasn't got to come back to this material, I mean to say, temporary existence. So these informations are there, and they are very scientific. They are not dogmatic. If you accept them with reason and argument and with human consciousness, the solutions are there.
So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the movement. It is not new movement. This movement is at least, current, since five hundred years before. Lord Caitanya, He started this movement in the fifteenth century. So this movement is current everywhere in India, but in your country, of course, it is new. But our request is that you kindly take this movement little seriously. We do not ask you to stop your technological advance. You do it. There is a nice proverb in Bengal that a woman who is busy in household work is also..., she also takes care for dressing herself nicely. It is the nature of women. When they go out they dress very nicely. So similarly, you may be busy with all kinds of technology. That, that is not forbidden. But at the same time, you try to understand this technology, the science of soul. That is there. It is not a bogus propaganda. It is factual. It is science. As science is not bogus propaganda, similarly this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is also not bogus propaganda. As science means two plus two equal to four, similarly Kṛṣṇa consciousness means mitigating the all problems of life. So... And the process is very easy. We are... Not we are. It is recommended by Lord Caitanya that in this age, for self-realization it is this process:
harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma iva kevalam
kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā
[Cc. Ādi 17.21]
Lord Caitanya says that in this age, when our life is very short, we are not very much enlightened in spiritual matters and we are very lazy at the same time, and at the same time we are unfortunate, so under these conditions the people are recommended simply to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma iva kevalam. Now this Hare Kṛṣṇa movement, you may say that "This 'Kṛṣṇa' is Indian name or Hindu name. Why shall we chant 'Kṛṣṇa'?" But if you have got any name of God, you can chant that also. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that God has millions and billions of names. So any name is as good as "Kṛṣṇa." It doesn't matter. Then why we chant Hare Kṛṣṇa? Because we are following the footprints of Lord Caitanya, and He chanted this holy name, we are chanting. So we shall request you most humbly that it is..., there is no loss on your part, but the gain is immense. If you take to this chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, then gradually your misconception of this life will be cleared off. You will understand your real identity and you will act in that way. And the technology is so nice that you may remain in your business, that doesn't matter. Simply you have to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Suppose you are walking on the street. If you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, nobody is taxing you, nobody is bothering you. But if by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, if you derive some benefit, why do you neglect it? That is our submission. So this movement is for making solution of the problems of life, and it can be easily done. And anyone can accept it. It doesn't matter whether he is Indian or American or Hindu or Muslim or Christian. It doesn't matter. Simply this vibration: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare.
So I shall thank you if you join us with this kīrtana and at least for few minutes you chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa. Thank you very much. Any question you can put. Yes?
Student (1): If I understood you, I think you said that this approach, that you feel that it's appropriate to you because people are lax in their approach to spiritual problems.
Prabhupāda: It is not Hindu approach. It is... We are recommending that you chant the holy name of God. Why do you say it is Hindu approach?
Student (1): I didn't. But as I understood you, I thought you said that this was appropriate here because people aren't terribly interested, therefore are lax in spiritual matters, which I feel is true. But if this is true, is there something that would follow? In other words, could you progress to some other form of this more...?
Prabhupāda: There are many other forms, of course, but this form is the easiest, and just suitable for the people of this age. Just like you gather together and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Anyone can. Actually we are doing that. In your country, wherever I go I chant this, and the American boys and girls, they take part in it in parks, in our class. So there is no difficulty. And this is the easiest. Simply we do not ask that you must be very highly educated, you must be philosopher, you must be expert in breathing exercise or this way or that way. No. We don't require any qualification. Simply come and sit with us and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and see the result.
Student (1): Do you imagine in this life an attainment of a follower...?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. There are many followers. You can ask how they have changed. We have got many letters. And here there are my students. You can ask directly how they have changed. This is practical. Yes.
Student (2): I want to make sure I understood—that chanting this over a long time will also help affect where our body will go after we die, what form we'll come back in?
Prabhupāda: First thing is by chanting your misconception of life will be cleared. At the present moment I am thinking that "I am this body," and therefore, because my body is born in this land, therefore I am thinking, "I am American." And because I happened to take my birth in a certain family, so I am thinking, "I am Christian" or "Hindu." But all these things are designations. When we clear the misconception of my life, then I can understand that I am pure soul, ahaṁ brahmāsmi. The Vedic language says that "I am spirit soul." And as soon as you understand, then brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati [Bg. 18.54]. As soon as you realize yourself as soul, then you become immediately free from all anxieties, prasannātmā. Prasannātmā means jolly. Spiritual life means natural joyful. Ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). The Vedānta-sūtra says that spirit is by nature joyful. So because we are spirit, we are always hankering after joyous life. But because our expression is through this material mind and body, it is not being fulfilled. So as soon as you stand on the spiritual platform, you actually stand on the platform of joyous life. That is the immediate gain. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. Immediately. Yes?
Student (3): What is the meaning of the sign at your back?
Prabhupāda: What is the meaning of your sign in the neck? What is the meaning of your sign in the neck? Oh, this? I do not know. (laughter) That is not my sign. That is technological sign. (laughter)
Student (4): Your Holiness?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Student (4): Could you estimate how many people in India have found true spirituality through Indian religion?
Prabhupāda: What do you mean by Indian religion?
Student (4): By any of the true religions which are offered in India. Not only yours, but...
Prabhupāda: You do not know what is Indian religion. The Indian religion is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Have you read Bhagavad-gītā? Then you do not know what is Indian religion. Indian religion is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. The Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa says, there is no greater higher authority than Kṛṣṇa. You can accept it. At least, the Indians, they accept. So in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said in the beginning that yadā yadā hi dharmasya glānir bhavati: [Bg. 4.7] "Whenever there is discrepancy in the matter of discharging religious principles, I appear." Now, if you accept this religion means the Hindu religion or Muslim religion or Christian religion or Buddhist religion, Kṛṣṇa does not propose such religion. He, at the end of Bhagavad-gītā, He says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: [Bg. 18.66] "You give up all other religious principles. You simply surrender unto Me." So religion, either you take it Hindu religion or Muslim religion or Christian religion, religion means to surrender unto God. And the Bhāgavata explains, sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje [SB 1.2.6]. That is the perfect type of religion which teaches surrendering unto the Supreme Lord. That is religion. Either you take it Hindu religion or Christian religion or Muslim religion or any religion, real religion means surrendering unto God. If there is no surrender unto God, that is no religion.
Student (4): Well, in India how many followers do you feel...
Prabhupāda: Why do you ask for India? I am talking of religious principle. How many of you Christian, you surrender unto God? First answer this. Then you go to India. Anyone, Christian or Muslim or Hindu, it doesn't matter. The conception of God is there. If you do not surrender unto God, you have no religion. Yes?
Student (5): In the Bhagavad-gītā, when Kṛṣṇa asks Arjuna to go forth in the battle and not to, to slay his relatives and not to be caught in the material world and see that the slayer and the slain are one, should the young American faced with the war in Vietnam go forth to Vietnam realizing that the slayer and the slain are one and that all this slaughter, just slaughter karma, and follow the way of the sage.
Prabhupāda: In the Bhagavad-gītā, Arjuna, he was a devotee of Kṛṣṇa, a friend of Kṛṣṇa. Perhaps you know it. So in the beginning he did not like to fight. He denied. So any devotee of God or Kṛṣṇa is not fond of war or fighting with any others. But if there is necessity, if Kṛṣṇa wants that fight, a devotee of Kṛṣṇa will accept such fight. If you think that your Vietnam fighting is ordered by Kṛṣṇa, then it is all right. If it is not, then it is not. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We act in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. If Kṛṣṇa says, if God says, "This is right," we accept it right. If God says it is wrong, we accept it wrong. Because we think, we have poor fund of knowledge. We do not know what is right and wrong. Therefore if God says or Kṛṣṇa says this is right, we accept it right. If God says or Kṛṣṇa says it is wrong, we accept it wrong. Yes?
Student (6): In order for one body to perceive another body, you need your eye. You have to look and see the other person and another person... In order for a body to perceive itself, it needs a mirror. But how does one body perceive its soul?
Prabhupāda: Yes. When you see your body you think that "This is my finger, this is my hand, this is my head, this is my chest, this is my leg." You see simply you will find, "This is my, this is my, this is my." But if you try to find out "Then what is I?" then you will find out. That is called self-realization. We are simply now engrossed with things "my," but we do not know what is "I." The identification of myself or I with this body is wrong. The identification of I with the mind is also wrong. The identification of I with intelligence is also wrong. When you actually come to the platform of spiritual understanding, then you understand that "I am neither this body, neither the senses, neither this mind, nor intelligence, but I am spirit soul." That is called brahma-jñāna, or Brahman realization. And the symptom will be, as soon as you are actually in self-realization, you will feel happy. You will have no anxiety. That is the test. Just like when you're free from disease, then there is no pain. Similarly, when you actually realize that you are spirit soul, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, then the symptom will be that there will be no anxiety and no lamentation and no bereavement or no so-called, I mean to say, happiness.
Student (7): How can you be sure?
Prabhupāda: Here is the surety. As soon as you see that you're free from all anxiety, then it is sure that you have realized yourself.
Student (7): Well how can you be sure you're free from all anxiety if you're incapable of perceiving happiness? And to perceive happiness, you...
Prabhupāda: Well, you have to follow the process. Then you will feel. Just like if you are diseased, if you have to be under the treatment of the physician and you have to take medicine, and when you're actually free, you will yourself feel, "Yes, I am free." But without going under treatment of an expert physician, or taking the medicine, how you can be free from disease? Yes?
Student (8): I don't understand exactly how Kṛṣṇa consciousness is different than the other religions. Like in Christianity, Judaism and Moslem they have the idea that a person can pray and sometimes chant, communicate with God, understand His way. And all religions seem to have this. So I don't see how it's different.
Prabhupāda: There is no difference. I have already explained that we are recommending that you chant the holy name of God. If you have got any holy name of God in your religion, you can chant that. We don't say that you chant Kṛṣṇa. Just like you are thirsty, you want water. Somebody may call "water," somebody may call "pani," somebody may call "jala." That doesn't matter. But you want water. Similarly, if you have got any name for calling the Supreme Lord, you call in that name. It doesn't matter. That is our recommendation. When we say, harer nāma. Harer nāma means the holy name of the Supreme Lord. Yes?
Student (9): There are different techniques for reaching Christ consciousness or God consciousness or self-realization. What test do you recommend for finding out which technique is the best?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That I have already explained. That technique is best by which you develop your love of God. That is the test. If by following Christian religion or Muhammadan religion or Hindu religion you actually develop your transcendental love for God, that is the best technique. If you have no love for God, simply you follow the technique, then it is simply laboring. That's all.
Student (9): I mean especially the variations of Indian technique.
Prabhupāda: I don't say any variation. I say that is the best technique by which you develop love of God. Now you find out what is that best technique. If you find that in your technique you are developing love of God, it is best. We don't say that you accept this technique or that technique. Any technique by which... Just like a man is diseased. Any medicine by which he is cured, that is best medicine for him. Similarly, the criterion is whether you have developed love for God or you are still in love for the matter. That is the test. Sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje [SB 1.2.6]. This is the definition of technique in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. That technique is the best form of technique of religious activity by which you can develop your service attitude towards the Supreme Personality of Godhead. The service attitude is there. You are serving. Either you are serving your family or you are serving your body or you are serving your society or serving your country, or if you have no engagement to service, you are serving some dog, you are serving some cat, you are serving some animal. So serving spirit is there, but we do not know where to place our service and become actually benefited by that service. Therefore you have to develop that spirit of service attitude toward the Supreme Personality of Godhead. When you develop that consciousness, that is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness or God consciousness or whatever technical name you may give. Yes?
Student (10): According to the belief, how many... Is there a fixed number of souls or fixed number of spirits in the universe?
Prabhupāda: No. The souls are innumerable. Asaṅkhyaya. It is stated in the Vedic literature, asaṅkhyaya. You cannot count. Asaṅkhyaya. And in the Upaniṣad it is said, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). God is also a living entity. As we are living entity, He is also living entity. But He is the chief living entity. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām. He's the leader of all living entities. Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. That one Supreme is supplying all the necessities of these many. So living entities... Just like sparks of the fire. The fire is..., big fire is one, but the sparks, there are millions. Similarly, we are all qualitatively one with God. Just like fire and fire sparks. Qualitatively all of them are fire, but the big fire and small fire is different. Similarly, we are also of the same quality as God, but we are very minute and God is great.
Student (4): When some new animal or person is born, is the soul always a reincarnation of some previous soul, or can it be that a new soul has...
Prabhupāda: No. The same soul is changing, just like you are changing your dress. Now you are in some colored dress. You may have some white dress or some red dress. Similarly, vāsāṁsi jīrṇāni yathā vihāya [Bg. 2.22]. As soon as your dress is old enough, you cannot use it any more, you have to change the dress. Similarly, the present body, as soon as it is no more workable, you have to accept another body. Now, taking it accepted as dress, that the next body means next dress, so that dress will be offered according to the payment, or according to your work. If you have worked just like a god, then you get the dress of a god, and if you have worked like a dog, then you'll get the dress of a dog.
Student (4): Then how can the dog then become a higher soul, a higher form after the dog?
Prabhupāda: Yes, there is gradual evolution. From dog life, from animal life, again by evolutionary process... That is accepted by anthropo... What is called? Anthropology. That they come to the human being, again there is a chance to get out of this bodily embodiment, and you can get yourself free life in the spiritual world. So if you lose this chance, then you again go to the cycle of birth and death in so many forms of bodies. Therefore we should utilize this enlightened body, the human form of body, the civilized form of life, for our next eternal life. Yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama [Bg. 15.6]. We should prepare ourself to go to that form of life which has no more birth, death, or disease or old age. Eternal life. Yes.
Student (11): Does it do atheists any good to chant your verses if they only want to be happy through chanting them?
Prabhupāda: Certainly. You may be atheist or theist. The chanting is so powerful, the atheist will be theist. If you are atheist, you can try it. Yes?
Student (12): Is this continual reincarnation only occurring on this earth, or does it occur on other planets?
Prabhupāda: Oh, other planets. All throughout the whole material world.
Student (12): Is there interchange between the planets?
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. You can go in another planet also. Because it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, sarva-. Sarva- means the soul can be transferred to any place. It may be in America, it may be India, in moon planet, sun planet, or any..., anywhere.
Student (13): Has the universe existed forever, or does soul have a beginning?
Prabhupāda: No. This material universe is created and dissolved. Bhūtvā bhūtvā pralīyate [Bg. 8.19]. Just like this body: it is born for some time, it will stay for some time, it will go for some time, then it will become old, and it will vanish. Similarly, the whole universe is like that. It has its creation, it stays for some time, a long duration of time, and it creates so many other things, by-products, and there will be time when everything will be vanquished.
Student (13): And where were the souls before the universe began?
Prabhupāda: That is called spiritual kingdom. In the spirit.
Student (13): And is that where they will all end up again when the universe comes to an end?
Prabhupāda: Yes. If you are not liberated, then you have to come to this material world and change one body after another. That will be your business. But if you get yourself transferred to the spiritual world, then there is no more coming back to this material world, and you get your eternal, blissful life of knowledge.
Student (13): What happens if the universe ends and there are some souls that have not yet transferred themselves to the other universe?
Prabhupāda: The same thing. What happens when your body will be vanquished? Nothing happens. The same thing will go on. There are many bodies, there are many universes. It is coming and going and vanquished. It is the law of nature.
Student (13): Do you mean the universe is likely to go on forever?
Prabhupāda: No. It is created. As your body is created, similarly anything material, it has got a life. It has got a period of creation, it stays for some time, then it is finished.
Devotee: Uh, I think questions...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Very nice. Thank you. Yes. So you can all chant. Come on. (kīrtana) (end)
Lecture at Engagement

Boston, May 8, 1968
Prabhupāda: You can speak? You can take this.
Brahmānanda: My name is Brahmānanda Dāsa Brahmacārī. I'm the president of the New York chapter of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. The International Society for Krishna Consciousness was established in 1966 by His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami, who had come to this country from Calcutta, India, to preach the science of God realization which is recommended for this age, this age of Kali, this age of disagreement. This process was started by Lord Caitanya five hundred years ago in India. [break] You may want to ask the Swami about Bhagavad-gītā or transcendental philosophy. Now I present His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami.
Prabhupāda: The primary principles of Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement have been briefly described by my disciple Śrīman Brahmānanda Brahmacārī. It is a very important science of God, understanding what is God. Of course, in every religion this conception of God is there. Simply by understanding "God is great" is not sufficient. We must have knowledge about our relationship with God. Generally, we take it for granted that God is our order-supplier. We take it that God is great because He... That is also not the conception of the atheist class of men. Those who believe in God, generally they approach God in distress, when they're in need of money, and somebody wants to study what is God out of inquisitiveness, and somebody wants to understand the science of God. There are four classes of men. They are called persons with pious activities on the background. Without pious activities on the background, nobody is interested in the science of God. And those who are unfortunate or impelled by impious activities, they do not believe in God. They never care for God. And this class of men are always known as atheist class of men.
So, so far atheist class of men, it is very difficult for them to understand. But atheist or theist, it doesn't matter. Everyone is conscious. That is a fact. It doesn't matter whether you believe in God or do not believe in God, but you are conscious. As soon as I pinch in any part of your body, you at once protest. You feel that "Somebody is pinching me. I am feeling pain." This consciousness is there even in the animal or in man and everyone. Now what is this consciousness? The Bhagavad-gītā replies what is this consciousness. The Bhagavad-gītā says, avināśi tu tad viddhi yena sarvam idaṁ tatam. That consciousness which is spread all over your body, that is eternal. How it is eternal? That also you can understand by practical experience. Just like in your childhood, there was consciousness. When you were in the womb of your mother, of course, at a certain stage there was consciousness. In your boyhood, there was consciousness. In your youthhood, there is consciousness, and as you make progress, in your old age, there is also consciousness. Now, your body is changing but consciousness is continuing. That you cannot deny. Therefore the Bhagavad-gītā says, avināśi tu tad viddhi yena sarvam idaṁ tatam. That consciousness is eternal, and that does not vanquish with the destruction of the body. Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. Now as soon as this consciousness is over, the body is called dead body. Now what is this consciousness? This consciousness is the symptom of the soul. That is... Just like in a light, in a fire, there is distribution of heat and light. Similarly, the spirit soul being present in your body, the consciousness is spread all over your body. This is the fact. Now this consciousness is being carried. Just like from your childhood this consciousness is being carried. From childhood body to boyhood body to youthhood body, the consciousness is continuing. Similarly, this consciousness will also carry you in another body, and that transformation or transmigration from one body to another, it is called death. Death means when this body cannot be carried any more, the consciousness has to be transferred to another new body. Just like when your garment is too old, it has to be changed; similarly, when this material body is too old to carry on, then this consciousness is transferred to another body and you begin another life. This is the process of nature.
But unfortunately, in the modern education system, there is no departmental education about this consciousness or spirit soul, although it is the most important factor. Without consciousness, without the soul's being present, this body is useless. But unfortunately we take care very much for this body, but we have no knowledge of the consciousness or the spirit soul. This is called illusion, ignorance, or māyā. We are very much serious about the nonpermanent things, the body which will not exist, which will be vanquished after certain period of years, but we do not take care of the eternal consciousness, which is changing from one body to another. This is the defect of the modern civilization. And so long we are unaware of the presence of the spirit soul in the body, so long we do not inquire what is the spirit soul, so long our all activities are simply wasting our time. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said that parābhavas tāvad abhodha-jātaḥ. The foolish person or the foolish living entity... Anyone who has accepted this temporary body is understood to be foolish. So every one of us is born foolish because we identify with this temporary body as myself. Therefore we are foolish. Everyone knows that the body does not exist, and still, everyone identifies himself with this body. This is called ignorance, or illusion.
So the whole world, or the mostly people are hovering in ignorance, and he does not know that he is spirit soul, and he is transmigrating from one body to another. He does not want to die, but the death, cruel death, is enforced upon him. So these problems, they do not consider very seriously, and they are thinking very happy on the principles of animal life. The animal life is based on four principal things: eating, sleeping, mating, and defending. And at the present moment the human civilization is very much proud of advancement of knowledge, but they are concerned with these four principles of life, namely eating, sleeping, defending, and mating. So according to Vedic literature, this way of life is no better than animal life. Human life is meant for advanced knowledge. And what is that advanced knowledge? To know oneself, what I am. In every civilized country, in every civilized form of society, there is some kind of religious principles, either you accept Muhammadanism or Christianism or Jewism or Hinduism or Buddhism. And what is the purpose of the scriptures and religious principles? To understand this consciousness, to understand the spirit soul and how it is fallen into this material conditional life, how they are transforming or transmigrating in different species of life. There are 8,400,000's of species of life, and we are wandering in so many species of life. And this is the opportunity, when we have got this human form of life, to understand "What I am." If we do not understand "What I am," then I am missing the opportunity. If I simply waste my time in the propensities of animal life—the same thing: eating, sleeping, defending, and mating—and if you do not inquire that "I do not wish to die. Why death is enforced upon me? I do not want to be diseased. Why disease is enforced upon me?" They do not inquire. They simply think, "All right, I am diseased. Let me go to the doctor and have some medicine." But from innermost part of his heart, he doesn't want to be diseased, or doesn't want to be dead. Why? Because he is eternal. His real position is eternal life, blissful life, without any death, without any birth, without any disease.
So this is the opportunity. This human form of life is the opportunity to achieve that highest perfection of life. If we do not make progress with that vision of life, then we are simply spoiling our, this opportunity of human civilized life. Especially I mean this civilized form of life with developed consciousness, developed education. If you do not take care "What I am? Why I am meeting death? I do not wish to die. Why calamities are enforced upon me?" Nobody wants to meet calamities. In your country, especially I see in every city, the fire brigade, ambulance car is always wandering in the street. That means who wants that his house should be set in fire? Who wants that he should meet an accident? But these things are being enforced, but there is no question that "Why these things are enforced? I do not want this. Why this...?" This is self-realization. As soon as we become inquisitive that "I do not want all these miserable condition of life. Why they are enforced...?" They are trying to solve these problems by so-called scientific research or so-called philosophical research, but actually the solution is to reform or to purify your consciousness. If you purify your consciousness, as by impure consciousness we are transmigrating from... Now this time, you may be very happy that you have got a very nice body, American body, or you are enjoying life. But do you know what is the next life? That you do not know. Either you do not believe in the next life or you do not know. But you should know that life is continuity. This platform is a flash only. Why there are so many species of life if it is not a flash? You are changing. So these questions are there.
So this movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is the movement for purifying consciousness. If you take to this movement, it is very simple. Just like our president, Brahmānanda, explained to you, that it is simply sixteen words: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. Simply to chant these sixteen words. We are simply requesting you to chant these sixteen words. There is no loss on your part, but there is immense gain. Why don't you make an experiment? It is not very difficult. These American boys, they are also chanting. Similarly, although it is written in Sanskrit words symbolically, but it is vibration. It is transcendental vibration. If you take to this vibration, then we become directly in touch with the Supreme Lord. That makes us purified. Just like if you go to the fire you become warm, similarly, if you be directly in touch with the Supreme Spirit, then our purification begins. So if you take to this movement, if you chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, then this impure consciousness will be purified and you will know what you are. Just like Brahmānanda said that it is the process of cleansing the mind, cleansing the mind from all dirty things. And as soon as you are cleansed of all dirty things, then your material anxieties are immediately over. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā:
Brahma-bhūtaḥ means as soon as you come to the platform of your spiritual understanding, then immediately you get free from all material anxieties. Na śocati na kāṅkṣati. You are no more hankering after any profit, neither you are very sorry when there is a great loss. Then you can see everyone on the equal level, and then your relationship or your lost relationship is again established with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Then your real life begins.
So Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to begin our real life, and to get free from this temporary life, changing from one body to another. So this is very important movement. Try to understand this movement. We have got magazine, Back to Godhead. We have got publication, we have got our branches in several places in your country. We have got here one branch in the 95 Glenville Avenue. So we invite you that you come. You have no expenditure. We simply request you that you come. You try to understand this movement. It is very scientific movement. It is not a bogus, bluffing. You try to understand with all your arguments, reason, logic, and whatever way you want to understand, we are prepared to answer you. So this is for your benefit. It is not an institution to make some profit. It is just to render service to the whole humanity so that they may understand the scientific knowledge of God and be benefited in this human form of life. That is our program(?), and we present this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement before you. Now it depends up to you to accept it or not.
Thank you very much. If there is any question you can... Yes.
Student: How does Kṛṣṇa consciousness relate to Advaita philosophy?
Student: Yeah. Total nonbeing.
Prabhupāda: Advaita philosophy means nondifferent from God. Have you studied Advaita philosophy? Yes. The basic principle of Advaita philosophy is nondifference from God. That is a fact. We are nondifferent from God. Just like the president of your country, he is American; you are also American. So there is no difference so far "American" is concerned. You are nondifferent. But at the same time, you are not the president. Because you are American it does not mean that you are on the equal level with the president. Is it not a fact? Similarly, we are qualitatively one with God. Qualitatively means that whatever you have got as spirit soul, the same thing is also in God. There is no difference in quality. Just like you take a drop of water from the vast Atlantic sea and you chemically analyze the ingredients. The composition of the drop of water is equal to the composition of the vast Atlantic water. Drop of water is equal to the vast mass of water in the Atlantic Ocean. Similarly, you are a spark of the Supreme Spirit Soul. You have got all the chemical qualities or composition as God has. But God is great; you are minute. He is infinite; you are infinitesimal. Qualitatively one, but quantitatively different. So those who are simply accepting the feature of being qualitatively one, they are called Advaitavādis. They are mistaking that quantitatively they cannot be equal. If quantitatively the living entity is equal to God, then why he is fallen in this conditional life of material existence? That means being his constitutional position very infinitesimal, he is prone to be caught up by the influence of māyā. And if you say that you are also the Supreme, then how you are caught by the māyā? Then māyā becomes great; God is not great. These things are to be considered. So our philosophy, the Vedānta philosophy, acintya-bhedābheda: we support the philosophy of simultaneously being one and different from God. Simultaneously. We are qualitatively one with God, but quantitatively we are different. That is our philosophy. That is Vaiṣṇava philosophy. So advaitavāda and dvaitavāda, they are facts. Dvaitavāda means different, and advaitavāda means nondifferent. So we are both nondifferent in quality, different in quantity. That is perfect philosophy. Is that clear to you?
Student: Another question.
Prabhupāda: Well, water is being poured and water is being taken out. That is a fact. From the sea water, water is evaporated, and the cloud..., and the cloud again falls down in water. So that does not mean water is fixed up. Water is not fixed up. That is eternally going on. Water is taken out from the sea, and again it is poured out. So you cannot stop this process. You do not think that because once you have mixed with the sea water, then there is no chance of coming out again. You have to come out. But if you enter within the water and be one of the living entities in the water, then you haven't got to come back. So our philosophy is not to mix with the water. We go deep into the water and become one of the aquatics in the water. Therefore we haven't got to come back again. And if you remain water, then you have to come back. Even you think that "I am mixed with water in the vast sea," that is your false identity. You have to come out. Therefore in the Bhāgavata says that,
ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninas
tvayy asta-bhāvad aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ
āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ
patanty adho 'nādṛta-yuṣmad-aṅghrayaḥ
[SB 10.2.32]
It is a very nice verse. It is said that those persons are thinking that they have become liberated by Brahman realization, their thoughts are not yet purified, because after severe austerities they may come to the brink of the water, but being given shelter by the water, he comes back again. So if you don't want to come back again, then you have to enter deep into the water and remain as one of the living creatures in the water. That is the philosophy of Vaiṣṇava philosophy, that we want to enter into the spiritual kingdom and we want to live in our spiritual identity. Not superficially simply we mix with water and again evaporate, again come back. So advaita philosophy, the example which you have given, they generally give this example, but any sane man can understand that by mixing superficially with the water there is no solution. There is chance of coming out again, being evaporated. If you take that example, you have to accept this also. How you can say that you are not coming back? It is a fact. So if you don't want to come back again, you go deep into the water and live as one of the living entities under the shelter of the water. They have no problem. They do not come back. The big animals, or big aquatics, they peacefully live within the water. They never come into the river because in the river there is no place to accommodate them. There are so big gigantic aquatics. So if you want to live perpetually in the water, then you have to keep your identity as one of the aquatics in the water. Then you'll be perfect. Otherwise you'll be baffled. That's all. Is that..., your answer is satisfactory? Yes. Any other question?
Your question is very intelligent. Unfortunately, people are not intelligent enough even to put questions and to answer this great science. And we are very much proud of our advanced education. They do not know what he is. Simply coming, accepting a body, and living for some time, and just dying like cats and dogs. That's all. They are most abominable condition of human civilization at the present moment that they do not take care about the real identity of his self. He's simply mistakenly identifying himself with this body, which he's not. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke [SB 10.84.13]. The Bhāgavata says one who identifies this body with his self, and one who thinks that the bodily relationship is the protector of his kinsmen, and the body produced in certain part of the land is accepted as worshipable—there are so many descriptions—such man is no better than an ass or cow. Sa eva go-kharaḥ [SB 10.84.13]. Go means cow and khara means ass. So these are the description in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. This is a challenge. But people are so much engrossed in ignorance that they don't care. "All right. Let us go on like this." And if I say that "You are God. You can do whatever nonsense you like, you do," then you'll be very pleased. You'll be very pleased. And people will be very much eager to hear me, you see? But we cannot say such thing, bluffing thing. Any other questions? Let us have kīrtana. Or at least chant with us Hare Kṛṣṇa for some time.
Brahmānanda: Simply chant the mantra, then I repeat(?), Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare.
Prabhupāda: Chant. (kīrtana) [break] So... You may, you make one dozen pictures like this.
Jadurāṇī: What? One dozen?
Prabhupāda: Pictures. You make them. Yes. [break]
Prabhupāda: ...from Prahlāda Mahārāja's instruction, I'll request you to practice another prayer. I'll pray the last line, govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. You'll repeat that. Now try to under... (chants one word at a time with devotees repeating:) govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. (sings:) Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi (repeats several times, devotees trying to sing along). The meaning of this line is govindam, the Govinda, Kṛṣṇa, and govindam ādi-puruṣam. Ādi-puruṣam means the original person. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam, "unto You," bhajāmi, "I offer my respectful obeisances." This is the meaning. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. Repeat.
Prabhupāda: Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. (repeats, devotees respond)
Repeat. (devotees respond, repeats, response)
veṇuṁ kvaṇantam aravinda-dalāyatākṣaṁ
barhāvataṁsam asitāmbuda-sundarāṅgam
govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi
[Bs. 5.30]
Prabhupāda: Loudly. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. (devotees respond) Yes. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. (devotees respond)
(devotees respond) Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. (repeats)
(devotees respond, repeats)
(repeats with response) Thank you. So in this way, Brahma-saṁhitā you'll learn, and there is Brahma-saṁhitā book, discuss translation, purport... (end)
Lecture at a School

Montreal, June 11, 1968
Prabhupāda: Is it working?
Devotee: Yes.
Prabhupāda: So one intelligent boy should come forward. Who is intelligent, most intelligent boy? You come forward? Come on. Eh? Somebody come forward, some of the boys. Come on. You come on. No? All right. Very good. Stand up here. Can you say what is this? What is this?
Boy: Hand.
Prabhupāda: Whose hand?
Boy: Your hand.
Prabhupāda: Your hand. And what is this?
Boy: Your head.
Prabhupāda: My head. Yes. And what is this?
Boy: Your knee.
Prabhupāda: Yes. My leg. And what is this?
Boy: Your clothes.
Prabhupāda: My cloth. Similarly, you have got your head, you have got your hand, you have got your leg, you have got your coat, you have got your pant, but do you know where you are?
Boy: I am here. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: You are here, but that is your coat, that is your pant, that is your hand, that is your leg, that is your head. But where you are? It is your coat, it is your pant, it is your hand, it is your leg. Where you are? Do you know that? Can you say, any of the boys or girls here, where you are?
Boy: No.
Prabhupāda: No? Oh. So you are not taught in this school where you are? Then what is that education? You do not know where you are.
Boy: I do know where I am. I'm in this school.
Prabhupāda: You do not know, because as you say you are here, here your coat is there, your pant is there, your hand is there, your body is there, but you cannot explain where you are. All right. Sit down. I shall explain. (laughter) This is the defect of modern education. We are educated in a way in which we have misunderstood, "This is my body. This is my hand. This is my leg. This is my country. This is my mother. This is my father. This is my school." "This is my," I know. I have the concept of "my." But who is conceiving "my"? We have no information where it is. In Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said that yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke [SB 10.84.13]. Under misconception we understand my body as myself. I say, "It is my body," but I misidentify my body with myself. Is it not?
So the basic principle of mistake... Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke. According to Vedic literature, this body is prepared in three elements: fire, water, and clay. So I am not the combination of fire, water, and clay. Then I am this house, I am this room. So yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke [SB 10.84.13]. So basic principle of my knowledge is false, that I am considering this material body as "I am." And if the basic principle is wrong, then, in relationship with this body, because I am born in this land of America... "I am born" means my body is born. Or because my body is born from another body, my father and mother, so I think that "This body is my kinsman, and this country is mine," and so on. But the basic principle is false, that "I am considering, falsely identifying myself with this body. But I am within this body." That is a fact. And how can I understand how I am within this body? I can understand I am within this body by my feeling. If there is some pain or pleasure on my body, I can feel. I am conscious that I am there. In consciousness, I am there. And what is this consciousness? This consciousness is the reflection of real myself. Myself means soul. So as soon as the soul is within this body, there is perception of pains and pleasure, heat and cold, and so many things. That is consciousness. And as soon as the soul is out of this body, there is no more pain, pleasure, or heat and cold. A dead body, if you cut it into pieces, it will not protest. Therefore the soul, or consciousness, the symptom of soul, consciousness, is my self. My consciousness is the symptom of my real self. Similarly, there is another consciousness.
In the Bhagavad-gītā there are description of two consciousness. Just like I am conscious throughout my body. If you pinch any part of my body, then I feel. That is my consciousness. So I am spread, my consciousness is spread, all over my body. This is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, avināśi tad viddhi yena sarvam idaṁ tatam: "That consciousness which is spread all over this body, that is eternal." And antavanta ime dehā nityasyoktāḥ śarīriṇaḥ: [Bg. 2.18] "But this body is antavat," means imperishable. "This body is perishable, but that consciousness is imperishable, eternal." And that consciousness, or the soul, is transmigrating from one body to another. Just like we are changing dress. I may have this dress. You may have another dress. I may exchange your dress with me. So this changing of dress going on every moment. How? Now, these children, they are now so small. When they'll become young, this body will grow. We do not know... We say, "It is growing," but growing or not growing, this body will not remain. This body will go; another body will come. Medical science also says that every second we are changing blood corpuscles, and therefore change in the body is going on. So you say or I say that "Body is growing," but in the Vedic language it is said that "Body is changing." Just like a child is born so small from the mother's womb, and it changes body every second. Then he becomes a young child or a boy, then young man, then old man like me, and so on. In this way this changing, body changing, is going on. And the final change is called death. Death means... Just like the too much old garments cannot be used, similarly, this body is the garment of the soul. When it is..., no longer can be used, we have to accept another body. This is called transmigration of the soul.
Now, consciousness, the symptom... The presentation of the soul within this body is proved by consciousness. So from Bhagavad-gītā we can understand there are two different qualities of consciousness. One consciousness is that I know about the pain and pleasure of my body, you know about the pains and pleasures of your body, but I do not know the pains and pleasure of your body; neither you know the pains and pleasure of my body. Therefore each and every one of us is individual soul, and our consciousness is limited within the body. Similarly, there is another consciousness and another body. That body is universal body, and that consciousness is universal. That universal consciousness knows your pains and pleasure, my pains and pleasure, and millions and trillions of living entities and bodies. He knows the pains and pleasures of everyone. These are the statements in the Bhagavad-gītā. Kṣetrajñaṁ ca māṁ viddhi sarva-kṣetreṣu bhārata: "As individual soul is conscious, is, only of his body, similarly, I am also conscious of everyone's body." The Supreme Personality of Godhead says that "I am conscious of everyone's body," because He is all-pervading. He is all-pervading. That is all-pervading consciousness. So this all-pervading consciousness, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, we are preaching, consciousness, all-pervading consciousness, universal consciousness. So our consciousness, when it is dovetailed with universal consciousness, them our consciousness also becomes universal consciousness. What is that? I will give you one example. Just like a motorcar is running at hundred miles speed, and you are running on your cycle at ten miles speed. But if you catch that motorcar, you will also run in hundred miles speed. Although your capacity of bicycle is only ten miles speed, you also run at hundred miles speed. So unless we dovetail our activities with the supreme consciousness, or God consciousness, there cannot be equality, fraternity, or universality as we are hankering after. It is not possible. You can go on crying in the wilderness for universal fraternity, friendship, equality, but if you keep your individuality, individual consciousness, selfish consciousness, there is no possibility of peace or tranquillity in the world. Therefore people are very much anxious at the present moment for peace and tranquillity over the world, but they do not know how that peace can be attained. Peace can be attained. The formula is there in the Bhagavad-gītā. Bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ sarva-loka-maheśvaram [Bg. 5.29]. You can attain peace only when you understand that God is the proprietor of everything.
Actually, God is proprietor of everything. Now, take for example this house. This house is made of wood, stone, clay, sand, and everything, materials. But who is the proprietor of this wood, sand, clay? God is the proprietor. You cannot produce wood. You cannot produce sand. You cannot produce clay. You can simply work as a laborer to bring the clay, to bring the wood, to bring the stone and collect them and stand, make, construct a very big skyscraper house. But actually, the proprietor is God. This land, this land, America, it was lying before you came from Europe, before you colonized. And it may be, some days after, it will be lying here, and you shall have to go. Therefore who is the proprietor of this land? God is the proprietor. In this way, if we study that "Everything belongs to God. I also belong to God, my self, my body, my mind, my activity, my energy, everything..." Just take for example. I am claiming that "This is my hand," but if God withdraws the energy of the hand, your claim for "my hand" at once goes. So we have to develop that God consciousness and Kṛṣṇa consciousness. When we speak of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, it is God consciousness. People have become degenerated, forgetting God consciousness. Therefore in the present world there is no peace. Materially, they are very much advanced. They are advanced in so-called education, but they do not know what is "I." The everything, they are claiming, "my and mine," but they do not know what is "I."
So this consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is scientifically presented. It is not a sentiment. It is not a sentimental movement. It is very scientific movement. And the easiest process to come to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is by chanting this Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. So we are presenting very easy formula for coming to the Kṛṣṇa consciousness platform. Just a moment before, we were dancing and chanting equally, the boys, the girls, the men, the women. So there is no distinction. Even if we do not understand the language, what is the meaning of Hare Kṛṣṇa, but because it is transcendental, because it is spiritual, from the spiritual platform, everything is equal. We forget that we are American, or we are Indian, we are child, we are youth, or man, or woman, because in the spiritual platform there is no such bodily distinction. So our request to all the guardians of the boys and girls present here, or the teachers, that they should teach from the very beginning this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness. Otherwise the future of the world is not very bright. It is recommended in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. We are having our class in our temple: the instruction of Prahlāda Mahārāja. Prahlāda Mahārāja was a five-years-old boy, and he was agitating this Kṛṣṇa conscious movement in his school. The schoolteacher would not allow him to speak about God, but as soon as there was some recess and the child, the boy, five-years-old boy, he would take the opportunity, call his friends and speak on Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And he said, kaumāra ācaret prājño dharmān bhāgavatān iha [SB 7.6.1]. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or God consciousness, should be taught from the very beginning of education. This is the greatest drawback of modern education, that not only in your country or any country they have completely neglected what is meant by God. And in India, they are especially... Now, as soon as there is any question of God, they see phobia: "Oh, this is all nonsense." They have become so clever.
So anyway, my appeal to you, American people, that you are considered to be the leader of all nations of the world. You should take this Kṛṣṇa conscious movement very seriously. It is good for you. It is good for the whole world. It is individually, collectively, without any consideration of caste, creed, or color. Everyone can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, anyone and everyone, at home, on the street. There is no expenditure. Suppose while walking if you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, there is no loss, there is no expenditure, but you see how much you are profited by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is practical. We don't say that "You come to our temple and give us some subscription. Become our member." That is a secondary question. Our primary movement is that everyone may take advantage of this movement and simply chant wherever possible, at home, at work, on the street, anywhere. There is no regulation where you have to chant and how you have to chant. It is spontaneous. Simply chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. There are only three words there: Hare, Kṛṣṇa, and Rāma, but they are adjusted in a different position. There are sixteen words. So it is not very difficult. You can make an experiment. The children also may take pleasure. We have got our records. If you play those records and chant with it, you will find a transcendental pleasure in you. These are facts. So our request to you, that you take this movement a little seriously, and you will be happy by grace of Kṛṣṇa.
Thank you very much. If you have got any question, you can ask. (pause)
Devotee: We should chant about five minutes. Then we'll serve milk.
Prabhupāda: Yes. No, let, if there is any question, we shall answer. That is not yet one hour.
Devotee: Some of the older boys want to stay after, and you can discuss with them then. They may have some questions.
Prabhupāda: So first of all you have to chant? All right. Please join with us and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Yes?
Yamunā: Swamijī, may I say something before we chant?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Yamunā: I want everybody to listen very carefully. This is a new song that... It would be very nice if you should learn how to sing and learn how to sing it very well. And the only way you can do it is by listening very carefully, everybody, So give your attention to these words: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. Now, if everybody will do this, and stand up, close your eyes very tight, put your hands up in the air and sing this song, so you really learn the words, and you can go home and teach it to your brothers and sisters and your mother and your father, and tell them what you learned today. You have to say you learned something. So if you teach them this song, that would be very nice. But you must learn it by listening. So listen to the words. Then get up, close your eyes and just sing. And you'll find it's a very nice song. But unless you try it, you won't learn it. Just like all the other songs you learn in your class. So try it. So I'm going to say the words, and then you say the words after me. We're going to practice it once. Okay. (with children repeating) Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. Okay. Now we're going to clap our hands too. [break]
Devotee: Do you want this? It's pineapple.
Prabhupāda: Distribute prasāda. What is this?
Devotee: Pineapple. There's apples too.
Prabhupāda: Pineapple? Oh. There is what? What is that?
Devotee: Oh, this is milk and bananas.
Prabhupāda: Oh!
Devotee: Warm milk and bananas. (end)
Lecture Engagement

Montreal, June 15, 1968
Prabhupāda: (chants maṅgalācaraṇa prayers) Ladies and gentlemen, this Kṛṣṇa conscious movement is reviving our original consciousness. At the present moment, due to our long association with matter, the consciousness has become contaminated, just like when the rain water falls down from the cloud, the water is uncontaminated, distilled water, pure, but as soon as the water falls down on this earth, it becomes mixed up with so many dirty things. When the water falls it is not salty, but when it is touched with the matter or earth, it becomes salty, or tasty, or something like that. Similarly, originally, as spirit soul, our consciousness is uncontaminated, but due to our association with the matter at the present moment, our consciousness is contaminated. Therefore we have got so many varieties of consciousness. Disagreements between one person to another is due to this contaminated consciousness. I think some way; you think otherwise. Therefore we do not agree. But originally, your consciousness and my consciousness were one. And what is that one? That conscious, pure consciousness, is "God is great, and I am His eternal servant." That is pure consciousness. As soon as we want to imitate or artificially want to become one with God, immediately the contamination begins. There is a Bengali verse in which it is stated that,
kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāñchā kare
pāśate māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare
The English translation is that "When an individual soul forgets his eternal relationship with God and tries to lord it over the material nature or resources, that condition, that forgetful condition, is called māyā, or illusion." So at the present moment, especially in this age, the forgetfulness of our eternal relationship with God is very strong. And by chanting this transcendental sound, Hare Kṛṣṇa, the first installment is that our heart or the mind becomes cleansed of all dirty things. This is not a theoretical proposition, but it is a fact. If you go on chanting this mantra, Hare Kṛṣṇa, it is not difficult. Although it is pronounced in Sanskrit language, everyone can chant it just like in this meeting we began to chant, and you also joined with us. Here, all my students, they are all Americans. None of them are Indian, but still, they have learned it very nicely, and it is not difficult. And there is no expenditure.
So what is this Hare Kṛṣṇa? Hare means the energy of the Lord, and Kṛṣṇa means the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So it is a prayer. There are three words only: Hare, Kṛṣṇa and Rāma, three words. That has been arranged in sixteen words: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. So our movement is that we request you to take up these sixteen words—not sixteen words, three words, Hare, Kṛṣṇa, Rāma. But is is arranged in such a way that there are sixteen words. So anyone can take it by heart, these three words, and chant it. It is universal. And if you think that "Oh, Kṛṣṇa is the name of Hindu god," if you have got any objection, then you may not chant Kṛṣṇa, but you must have a name for God. Just like somebody, the Muhammadans, call Allah, the Jews call Jehovah, or somebody calls something. That doesn't matter. If you think that "Why shall I chant the Indian name Kṛṣṇa, Sanskrit name Kṛṣṇa?" so Lord Caitanya says that there are millions and billions of names of God. If you think that this Kṛṣṇa name is not very suitable, you can accept any name. That doesn't matter. Our proposition is you chant God's name. That is our proposal. Therefore it is universal. If you like, you can chant Jehovah or you can chant Allah, but we request you that you chant God's name. Is it very difficult? It is not at all difficult. Lord Caitanya said that there are innumerable names of God according to different languages, different countries, different societies. And each and every one of them has the potency of God Himself. If there is any God, so God is Absolute; therefore there is no difference between His name and He Himself. Just like in the material world, in the world of duality there is difference between the name "water" and the substance water. The name water is different from the substance water. If you are thirsty, if you simply chant, "Water, water, water, water," your thirstiness will not be quenched. You require the substance water. That is material, but spiritually, the name Kṛṣṇa or the name Allah or the name Jehovah is as good as the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
Therefore if you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa... You may inquire why we are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Hare Kṛṣṇa, this name, was chanted by Lord Caitanya, who introduced this movement five hundred years ago in India. We are following the footprints of Lord Caitanya. Because He chanted Hare Kṛṣṇa, therefore we are chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. But Lord Caitanya has recommended that God has innumerable names, and any one of them can be chanted, and there is no hard and fast rules and regulations for chanting. It is not that you have to prepare yourself or you have to educate yourself or you have to adjust yourself for chanting. No. Everyone. Just like immediately we began to chant. You were not prepared, but you joined with us, you clapped with us, you danced with us. So similarly, there is no preoccupation or any rules and regulation. You simply chant. And this is very easy. While walking, you can chant whatever name you like. We like Kṛṣṇa. We chant always: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. While walking the streets, while you are going in the bus, and whatever, even while working with your hands, you can chant. There is no loss on your part. There is no expenditure on your part, but the gain is very great. Why don't you try it? Try it. That is our request.
So the benefit will be that gradually you shall understand what you are. The whole civilization, modern civilization, is going on under a wrong impression that "I am this body." In Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said that "One who goes on with the concept of the body, he is no better than an ass or cow." Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke... [SB 10.84.13]. It is a very long verse. But actually we are not this body. So if we chant this mantra, Hare Kṛṣṇa, then I can understand what I am. And as soon as I understand that I am not this body, then my activities become different, because at the present moment I am acting on the concept of my life as this body. Because this body is born of a particular place in a particular country, therefore I am saying that "I am American," or "Indian," or "China" or "German," due to this body. And because I have got relationship with some woman with this body, therefore I accept the woman as my wife. There are hundreds of thousands of women, but the woman who has got relationship with this body is my wife. There are thousands and millions of children, but one child who has got intimate relation with this body I call my son. So if the body falsely identified, then we can understand that our identification with this world is also false. The real identification is, as it is stated in the Vedic literature, ahaṁ brahmāsmi: "I am Brahman." "I am Brahman" means "I am spirit soul. I am not this matter." So this misconception has to be removed. Of course, it is not possible that everyone will understand or everyone will be able to understand it, but even a certain percentage of the human society can understand, immediately there is solution of so many problems—to understand ahaṁ brahmāsmi. And how that solution is made, that is described in the Bhagavad-gītā.
This Bhagavad-gītā is the science of God. Just like in your Christian Bible or any other scriptures, Muhammadan or Christian or Jews or Buddhists... So ahaṁ brahmāsmi means that "I am spirit soul," this realization. As soon as this realization is there, then the other things immediately follow. What is that? Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. Immediately one becomes cheerful. So long we have got this bodily concept of life, we cannot be cheerful. Full of anxiety. And as soon as we understand that "I am not this body; I am spirit soul," the next moment you will be cheerful. There will be no anxiety. I am full of anxiety because on account of this bodily concept of life. Just like one man has got very costly motorcar, and he is running the car on the street. He is very careful so that there may not be any accident in the car, the car may not break. So much anxiety. But a man who is walking on the street, he has no such anxiety. Why the man in the car is so anxious? Because he has identified himself with the car. If the car, if there is any accident to the car, if the car breaks, he thinks, "I am gone. Oh, my car is gone." Although he is different from car, he thinks like that due to identification, false identification. Similarly, because we are falsely identified with this body, therefore we have got so many problems of life. So if we want to make solution of the problems of life, then we have to understand what I am. And unless this question arises in your mind—not only in your mind, everyone's mind—then we should, we must consider that whatever we are doing, that is our defeat because we are doing everything in false consciousness.
In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said, parābhavas tāvad abodha-jātaḥ. Abodha-jātaḥ means one who is born fool. Every one of us is a born fool. Why? From the beginning of our life I know that "I am this body," although I am not this body. Therefore we are all born fools, everyone. And therefore, according to Vedic civilization, one has to take his second birth. One birth is made possible by conjugation of the father and mother. That birth is called animal birth. Janmanā jāyate śūdraḥ. Everyone, by birth, is śūdra, or the lowest class of man. And saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ: "By reformation, one becomes twice-born." And what is that reformation? By understanding oneself, "What I am." Saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ, veda-pathād bhaved vipraḥ: "And after twice, after his second birth, if he tries to understand the spiritual science, the science of God, then he is called vipra." Vipra means quite congnizant. And brahma jānātīti brāhmaṇaḥ: "And when he understands that he is Brahman, he is spirit soul, then he becomes a brāhmaṇa." Perhaps you have heard that in India the brāhmaṇas are called the topmost men of the society. Why? Because he knows that "I am Brahman; I am not this matter." Brahma jānātīti brāhmaṇaḥ. So by understanding Brahman your position will be that prasannātmā, you'll be joyful, na śocati na kāṅkṣati, you will never lament any loss, neither you will hanker after any so-called gain, na śocati na kāṅkṣati, samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu, and you will look every living entity on the same level. Mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām [Bg. 18.54]. In that stage of realization, you can understand what is God and what is your relationship with God.
Therefore this movement is that one understands himself what he is. It is, of course, very plain question and answer. The other day we had some lectures in a, one Sunday school, and I called one, a small boy, and I asked him that "What is this?" He said, "It is my hand, it is my head, it is my leg, it is my body, it is my pants, it is my..." And I asked him, "Where you are? You are simply saying 'my, my, my,' and where you are?" So similarly, everyone can understand that what I am? If you think yourself, if you meditate on yourself, if you see your hand, "Am I this hand?" you will say, "No, it is my hand." "Am I this leg?" You will say, "No, it is my leg." "Am I this head?" "No, it is my head." Then where you are? So that person who is thinking within that "It is my hand, it is my head, it is my leg, it is my pant, it is my coat," that you are. So have you seen that thing? You have seen your father, you have seen your mother or you have seen your son. But have you seen the real father who is within the body of the father? Have you seen the real son which is in the body of the son? No. Then your whole conception of education, your whole conception of living condition and problems—in the false world. Therefore this movement is required at the present moment in the world. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. This will cleanse the status of your mental condition. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanaṁ bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam. And as soon as you understand yourself, then the whole problem—social, political, economical—everything will be solved. Bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇaṁ śreyaḥ-kairava-candrikā-vitaraṇam. And gradually you shall realize your transcendental life. Your transcendental life is joyful. Ānanda-mayo 'bhyāsāt. Transcendental life means always full of joy, joyful. That is our nature. We are hankering after joyful life, but we do not know where to hanker, how to get it. By nature we are joyful. It is said in the Vedānta-sūtra, ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt: (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12) "By nature a living entity is joyful." But my joyfulness is covered by this material understanding. So I have to remove this material understanding; then again I shall become joyful.
So this movement is very scientific movement, and we have got authoritative statements. You cannot defy authority, authority. As an authority, minister of this Unitarian Church, in one place he has denied authority, and in another place he has quoted so many authorities. So many authorities he has quoted. Why? If you deny authority, then why you quote other authority? So you cannot defy authority. This is not possible. From the beginning of your life, when you were child, you asked your parents, "Mother, father, what is this?" Why? That is the beginning of life. You cannot go even a step without authority. You are governed by authority. You are running your car by authority—"Keep to the right." Why? Why don't you defy it? So authority we have to obey. But the difficulty is: who is authority? That we require to learn who is actually authority. So authority means who has no mistakes, who has no illusion, who does not cheat, and whose senses are perfect. That is authority. That is the definition of authority. A conditioned soul who... Just... "To err is human." Any human being is sure to commit mistakes. However learned he may be, however advanced he may be, he must commit mistake. Therefore this word is, "To err is human." And one must be illusioned. And there is cheating propensity of every man. Even a child, he wants to cheat. The mother asks, "Oh, what is in your hand?" Oh, the child says, "No, mother, nothing," although the mother can see he has got something. So the cheating propensity is there. And above all, your senses are imperfect. You are proud of your eyes: "I want to see." What you can see? If the light is off, your seeing power is immediately gone. If there is no sun, your seeing power is gone. Therefore we see under conditions. Therefore imperfect. So you cannot get perfect knowledge by imperfect senses, by speculative knowledge. You have to accept authority. Just like if you want to know who is your father, the authority is your mother. The mother says, "Here is your father." You have to accept. You cannot make research. Mother is the last authority, who is your father. Similarly, we have to accept authority, and if the authority is not a conditioned soul, if he is liberated soul, if he is not a cheater, if his senses are not imperfect, if he does not make any mistakes, if he is not in illusion, if you receive knowledge from that authority, then your knowledge is perfect. That is the process.
So we have got such authoritative, I mean to say, literature, Vedic literatures. You can test it by your reason, by your arguments, by your philosophical talks, everything. Religion without philosophical basis, without scientific basis, is sentiment. That religion based on philosophy and science, that is right. So Bhagavad-gītā is that book. Any question, any inquiry, any doubt—all the answers are there, and very nicely. Just like one or two verse I shall explain to you. In one place Bhagavad-gītā says that..., the Lord says that,
The Lord says that there are eight hundred, er, 8,400,000 species of life, different forms of life, species of life. There are aquatics, there are plants, trees, worms, germs, then birds, beasts, and at last, the human species of life, only 400,000's. So Kṛṣṇa says that "All the species of life—never mind whether he is man or he's a dog, he's a cat—he's a living entity, and I am the seed-giving father of all living entities." Now, how nice, you can understand simply. This verse, if you can understand, then you can have some idea of universal brotherhood. If you want to make universal brotherhood, you must find out the center—the universal father. So these questions and answers are there, and we have got the science of God, the education of science of God, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So these books are meant for human society, and if you take advantage of the knowledge imparted in this book and if you chant this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, you will see how your life becomes improved, how you become full of knowledge, full of bliss, and how you advance in your eternal life.
Thank you very much. If any question, you can make. (end)

Montreal, June 26, 1968
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa's money is being stolen by this coward. Stena eva sa ucyate [Bg. 3.12]. Anyone who is using Kṛṣṇa's money without acknowledging, he is a thief. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Stena eva sa ucyate: he's a thief. So in this material world, one who has no Kṛṣṇa consciousness, one who is not using things in Kṛṣṇa consciousness... Everyone is using Kṛṣṇa's... Nobody has got any property. Īśāvāsyam idaṁ sarvam [Īśo mantra 1]. Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. That is the version in Īśopaniṣad. Now, in this American land, now divided into Canada, North America, South America, but originally, to whom this land belongs? It belongs to Kṛṣṇa. You have come here and have divided Kṛṣṇa's property and you have named "This is Canada, this is North America, this is South America," and you are claiming proprietorship. But if you are asked, "Are you really proprietor?" No. You have come here, encroached upon others' property. So originally, you are thief. Actually this is the position, that anyone who is unlawfully claiming something, "It is mine," that is illusion. Janasya moho 'yam ahaṁ mameti [SB 5.5.8]. This ahaṁ mameti, "It is mine, and it is I. This body, I. And in bodily relation, everything mine," these two things are illusion. Ahaṁ mameti. Aham means "I." What "I"? This body. And what "mine"? This, "My wife is mine, my children, my home, my country." Why? Because the bodily relationship is there.
So the original platform, that I am not this body, then every relationship becomes false, illusion. This is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, how this illusion develops. The illusion develops because it is the kingdom of māyā. Māyā is attracting us. What is that attracting force? That attracting force is for man, woman; and for woman, man. This is attractive. This whole world is going on, not only in the human society, but in dog society, cat society, hog society, bird society—everywhere—the woman is attractive for man, and man is attractive for woman. This is māyā. This is māyā. So Śrīmad-Bhāgavata says that this attractive feature is pulling on this material existence. Therefore the training is how to detract. In the beginning the brahmacārī training is given because to know that this body, woman body, is actually not attractive. What is this attractive? This is made of flesh and blood. Similarly for woman, if I analyze the man's body, or woman's, what is there? Flesh and blood. But that flesh and blood is very attractive? That story, perhaps I have enunciated, that beauty was kept in a pot? Do you remember? Huh? I may repeat that story again, that one girl was very beautiful, and one boy was after him (her). But in India the boys and girls are not allowed to mix freely unless they are husband and wife. So this girl was married, but she was not very rich. But that boy was very rich and he was after her. He was always proposing her. And she became perplexed, that "He is rich man. If I don't agree, then he may do some harm to my husband, to me." So she made a plan that "All right. I agree to your proposal. You come to my house in such and such night. I'll be engaged with you." Oh, he was very... In the meantime, (s)he took some purgative pill, strong. So for six, seven days, she simply purged out all the beauty in vomiting and in passing stool. So those vomits and stools were kept in two pots. And naturally, if you pass stool for one day, your feature becomes immediately ugly. That is a fact. So she passed stool and vomiting seven days. Naturally, she became very ugly. So when the boy came, she was sitting there on the door. The boy was asking, "Where is such and such girl?" She said, "Yes, I am. I am here." "No, you are not her. Oh, she is so beautiful, and you are so ugly." "No, I am the same girl." "Why you have become so ugly?" "Because I have extracted my beauty.' "Where is that?" "Just see in these two pots." (laughter) "So if you like, you can enjoy this beauty." (laughter)
So actually, if we dissect our body, then the beauty things, they are within, some stool, some urine, some intestines, some brains, some muscles, some blood. These will be found. This is called māyā. But that stool, urine, muscle, brains, and intestines are so nicely decorated that it can attract you. It has got a full attraction, both for the boys and the girls. Bhāgavata has done nice that the illusion of this world is that attraction. What is that attraction? False attraction. The man is attracted by woman, woman is attracted by man. And the business is going on. Especially in this country, I see the girls are attracting by their bodily features in so many ways. You see? So similarly boys are attracting girls by so many features, especially by nice motorcar and so many things. So in every society, according to the standard of living, according..., these attractive features are going on. In birds, beasts... And when they are united... Everyone is trying to attract others. A girl is trying to attract another boy, the boy is trying to attract another girl. These attracting features is going on. And as soon as they are actually attracted and joined together, the illusion becomes doubly knotted. Tayor mitha hṛdaya-granthim āhur. Hṛdaya-granthim means everything is within the heart. If I study, "Oh, what is this attraction?" if I understand how it is simply combination of blood, stool and urine and intestine and muscle and skin and hair and nails, then if I study philosophically, so what is there? Have I got any attraction for all these things? No. So it is all false. Therefore Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12], that if we clarify our heart, then we become liberated. So this Hare Kṛṣṇa chanting process is clarifying.
So tayor mitha hṛdaya-granthim āhur. As soon as a man and woman is combined together, that means the knot of material attraction becomes doubly tightened. Then they want apartment, gṛha. Ato gṛha-kṣetra. Kṣetra means... Of course, nowadays everyone is seeking after employment, but formerly nobody, there was no industry, no big business. Everyone has to produce something, foodstuff, out of the kṣetra, field. So if you become a family man you must have some source of income. That source of income is land, as Rāyarāma was explaining you. Actually the land is the source of income. If you can utilize the land, then there is everything stocked there. This same example can be given. This American land was lying vacant, but since the Europeans took possession of that, at least they have exploited the resources. So everything was on the land. So land is really property. So gṛha-kṣetra, apartment, land. Gṛha-kṣetra-suta. As soon as they have married, they require, they at least desire to have a child. At least, the girl wants. Although now the process is different, but the hankering is that girls, women, they want child. That is sentiment. Ato gṛha-kṣetra-suta āpta. Āpta means relatives. Gṛha-kṣetra-sutāpta-vittair [SB 5.5.8]. Vittair means wealth, some bank balance. In this way go on increasing. Janasya moho 'yam. This is the moha, this is illusion. So this illusion is so strong that we are going on increasing, increasing, increasing, increasing. Nobody is thinking that "I am increasing the requisites of the body, but I am not this body; I am soul. What is the requisition of the soul?" This is conclusion. They have forgotten. Real interest they have forgotten. The superficial interest. The same example can be given. Just like if you simply soap your shirt and coat and do not take care of your real body, or do not feed your body, then how long we shall exist? My Guru Mahārāja used to give one nice example that a man was drowning. Another man came, that "I shall save this man." So he jumped on the water, and when coming out of the water he brought the shirt and coat: "Now I have saved the man." The so-called service, or any service which is going on, that is serving the shirt and coat. Nobody is serving the soul. That is the mistake of modern civilization. There are many hospitals to cure the bodily diseases, but there is no hospital to cure the disease of the soul.
So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is to cure the disease of the soul. Disease of the soul. Every soul, every person, is mistaken to accept this body as his self or the mind as his self. This is the difference. Yasyātma-buddhiḥ kuṇape tri-dhātuke, sa eva go-kharaḥ [SB 10.84.13]. Anyone who is accepting this body as self, he's either an ass or a cow. Misconception. So people are not interested. We are trying, the Bhagavad-gītā is trying. In the beginning, beginning of the instruction... Just like Arjuna was identifying himself with this body in the beginning, and he was thinking that "He is my grandfather, he is my son, he is my nephew, he is my...,." so on, so on. Kṛṣṇa replied him. When Arjuna was unable to make a solution of his problems, he surrendered to Kṛṣṇa and said, śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam: [Bg. 2.7] "I surrender unto You as Your disciple. Please save me from this (sic:) perpetry." Then Kṛṣṇa in the first instance replied, aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase: [Bg. 2.11] "My dear Arjuna..." Because he accepted Kṛṣṇa as spiritual master, so spiritual master has the right to chide his disciple. So He immediately chided him, that aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase. "My dear Arjuna, you are talking just like a very learned man, but you are fool number one." That was His first words. Of course, He did not say directly "fool number one," but He said indirectly that "No learned man speaks like this, as you are speaking." That means, "You are not learned man. You are fool." He indirectly said, nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. Paṇḍita means learned. "No learned man speaks like that. But because you are speaking like that, that means you are not learned man. Or in one word, you are fool." Because before Kṛṣṇa, he was speaking that "If I kill my family members, then such and such thing will happen. Then the women will become polluted and there will be unwanted children, varṇa-saṅkara. And as soon as there is varṇa-saṅkara, full of unwanted children, this world will be hell." These are facts. These are facts. The world has become hell due to unwanted children. That is the fact. So Kṛṣṇa was speaking... Arjuna was speaking just like ordinary gentleman on the material field, but Kṛṣṇa, when He took up his charge, He said that "You are hovering over the material plane. That is not your learning. The learning is when you understand from the spiritual platform."
aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ
prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase
gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca
nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ
[Bg. 2.11]
"The paṇḍitāḥ, the learned man, he does not lament over the body, either living or dead." Because bodily platform is not the subject matter for understanding of philosophical research. Bodily platform is not very important. The spiritual platform is important, but nobody is discussing about spiritual platform. Everyone is, all the education centers, the universities, they are, I mean to say, busy studying chemistry, physics, and biology, mathematics. At most, little philosophy. That is also on mental speculation, theory. Somebody is giving some theory; somebody's giving (another) theory. But nobody discussing about the eternal spirit soul. That is the defect of this modern civilization.
So it is very hard task for us to convince them, but the fact is this. Either they accept or not accept, it is our misfortune or their misfortune, but the fact is this, that as Caitanya Mahāprabhu said, or as Lord Kṛṣṇa said, that mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ: [Bg. 15.7] "All these living entities are My part and parcels." So what is the duty of part and parcel? The part and parcel is... Of course, the same example. Just my, this hand is part and parcel of the body. So the duty of the hand is to serve the whole body. That's all. There is no other duty. The hand cannot eat out of his own account. The hand cannot do anything out of its own account. The direction should be from the whole, from me, and then the hand should work. This is the part and parcel duty. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, jīvera svarūpa haya nitya kṛṣṇa dāsa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. Just like my hand, my leg, or my tongue, they are all servants of me and the whole, similarly everyone, every living entity, is the eternal servant of the Supreme, supreme controller. So the duty of everyone is to serve Him. That is natural duty. That is natural. Any other position is diseased condition. In other words, who is not acting in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is diseased. The treatment is this Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare. Just like when a man is bitten by a serpent, there is some mantra. Of course, I do not know whether you have got this experience, but India there are experts who, simply by chanting mantra, he can give life to a man who is bitten by serpent. Mantrauṣadhi-vaśaḥ sarpaḥ. Mantra and auṣadhi. Auṣadhi means there are herbs. Of course, these things are now gone, but there, still there are persons. So even the mantra can give a so-called dead man bitten by serpent. Similarly, we are bitten by the serpent of māyā, and this mantra, Hare Kṛṣṇa, will raise him to consciousness, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is effect.
Now you can speak.
Janārdana: The predicament of mankind... [break]
Prabhupāda: There is nice verse in which it is stated that,
sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo
mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca
vedaiś ca sarvair aham eva vedyaṁ
vedānta-vid vedānta-kṛd cāham
[Bg. 15.15]
The purport of this verse is that "I am situated in everyone's heart." Sarvasya cāhaṁ hṛdi sanniviṣṭo. Īśvaraḥ sarva-bhūtānāṁ hṛd-deśe 'rjuna... [Bg. 18.61]. Everyone's heart, Kṛṣṇa is there, or the Paramātmā is there. And mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca [Bg. 15.15]. And all the speculation or real understanding or forgetfulness or real knowledge, they are coming, being initiated from Him. Mattaḥ: "from Me." Smṛtir means memory; jñāna means knowledge. Apohanaṁ ca: "forgetfulness." Everything is... Forgetfulness is also from Him. Knowledge is also from Him. Memory is also from Him. And vedais, vedais means all books of knowledge. Vedaiś ca sarvair. Sarvair means all varieties. It is not that simply the four Vedas, as we accept in India, Sāma, Yajur, Ṛg, Atharva. No. Any authorized scripture, that is Vedas. Any authorized scripture. Vedaiś ca sarvair. "All kinds of Vedas, they are searching after Me." The knowledge... Actually, the destination of knowledge, as Śrīman Janārdana... What we are searching after? He has summarized that we are searching after happiness. That's a fact. But we do not know where the happiness is there. That is our... Searching, I am... Subject matter of searching is happiness. Everyone in this material world is after happiness. But unfortunately, one has no information where is the happiness. That remembrance can be... Where is the happiness? That can be had from the Supersoul, who is sitting with you within your heart. Within your heart. Because Kṛṣṇa says that "I am sitting in everyone's heart as Supersoul, and from Me, intelligence, memory, knowledge, forgetfulness—everything—is being happened."
Now the question is why one is in forgetfulness and why one is in Kṛṣṇa consciousness? Is it a fact that Kṛṣṇa is dealing with different persons differently, that one is being fully in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and another is in different consciousness, or forgetting Kṛṣṇa? Apohanam. That is also due to Kṛṣṇa. Why? Because Kṛṣṇa is very merciful. The why answer can be given that Kṛṣṇa is very merciful. How merciful? One is given forgetfulness. How Kṛṣṇa is merciful? Yes, He's merciful. How is it? Because he wanted to forget Kṛṣṇa. He wanted to forget Kṛṣṇa, so Kṛṣṇa will give him such sources of forgetfulness that he'll never be able to understand what is Kṛṣṇa. "You enjoy. You want to forget Kṛṣṇa, or God? All right. I'll give you intelligence so that you will never be able to understand what is God." Not exactly memory... Because living entity, sometimes by good association will come... So this is not Kṛṣṇa's partiality. He has given everyone a little quantity of independence. Just like these boys who have come here, that is out of independence. They are playing, but out of independence they have come. And they may sit down for some time and out of independence may go away. So this independence is there even in the ant, even in the worm and everywhere, because we are part and parcel of God and God is fully independent. But we cannot be fully independent. Just like in the state. You are belonging to an independent state, but that does not mean that you can do anything and everything. You have no such independence. There is state law and order. Similarly, as in the state we are independent citizens, but if we violate law and order, then we shall be punished. It is very simple thing. But the rascal civilization, they say God is dead. How God can be dead? The law of God are acting so nicely. How God can be dead? That means he wanted to forget God, so he has come to the conclusion, "God is dead." He has come to this conclusion. While, on the other hand, who wants God, they are perfectly visioning that "Next life I am going to meet God face to face." This intelligence is given to him by God also. That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gītā.
"Those who are constantly engaged with love and faith in My service, teṣām, buddhi-yogaṁ dadāmi, I give them such intelligence by which gradually they make progress to come back to Me."
So actually, although we have got independence, we have got consciousness, we have got power of thinking, of understanding, but it is limited. Therefore we don't agree with one another. However I may be big philosopher, I may be very big philosopher, very logician, but as soon as another big logician, another big philosopher comes, he defeats me. That is the way. And every philosopher, every logician is trying to defeat your theory, as you are trying to defeat others' theories. This is going on. So as Śrīman Janārdana said, the knowledge which you are searching in different ways, that is impossible to come to the conclusion. Because we are searching with... However I may accept this method or that method or that method, but accepting the method means employing my senses. But the senses are imperfect. Either I accept this or that, I have to work with my senses. There are no other instruments. So when senses are imperfect, so whatever method you accept, that will be imperfect. Then which method will be perfect? That method will be perfect, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, mattaḥ smṛtir jñānam apohanaṁ ca [Bg. 15.15]. When Kṛṣṇa from within yourself will give you right direction, then you'll come to the ultimate destination. Otherwise, whatever, however a great philosopher, scientist, or anything you may be, you'll simply hover on the material, mental plane. That's all.
So either you call perfect knowledge or you call happiness, anything, what you call, if you want to know the ultimate goal of your life perfectly, you have to follow a different method. A different method. That method is called avaroha-panthā. There are... All methods of acquiring knowledge can be divided into two groups. One group is called āroha-panthā, or research, inductive process. And another method is called deductive process, or avaroha-panthā. The knowledge coming from the supreme source, that is called avaroha-panthā, and the knowledge which is being sought after by using our imperfect senses, that is called āroha-panthā. Ascending process and descending process. So by ascending process, we can never come to the real knowledge. That is not possible, because our senses are imperfect. How we can ascend? Just like people are trying to ascend to the higher planetary system, but the instrument, sputnik itself, is imperfect. How you can go there? You can go 25,000 miles, again come back. Punar mūṣiko bhava. So this is going on. Because we are imperfect in every respect, so therefore we have to receive knowledge from the perfect. That is the process, real process. If your knowledge... Just like Janārdana suggested three processes, one by applying our senses, another by accepting knowledge from others, and another, rejection. Two ways. Or skepticism, make void. So this is out of frustration. So make the mind void, no more thinking. And knowledge by imperfect senses, that will always remain imperfect. And knowledge from others, that is real goal. But provided you receive that knowledge from the perfect... As we have given several times the example, just like a child wants to know who is his father. Now if he searches out "Who is my father?" he asks everybody, "Are you my father? Are you my father? Are you my father?" he will have to go on searching. Then again if he asks his neighbor, "Who is my father?" the neighbor also may not know and may give him misinformation. So that is also not possible. But if he goes to his mother and his mother is sincere and perfect, she can give, "My dear boy, he is your father." That is perfect. So neither by researching one can find out his father, neither by employing his imperfect senses. But if he receives the knowledge from the sincere mother, then the knowledge is perfect. And he has no other alternative to know who is his father except the source of a sincere mother. Similarly, the Bhāgavat says, acintyāḥ khalu ye bhāvā na tāṁs tarkeṇa yojayet. Things which are beyond your power of realization, don't try to understand by your so-called logic and argument. All nonsense. All nonsense.
Tarkaḥ apratiṣṭhaḥ. This process of argument and logic, gymnasium, is imperfect always. You cannot realize what is the ultimate goal of life. Tarkaḥ apratiṣṭhaḥ śrutayo vibhinnā. Śruta means Vedas or books of knowledge. There are different kinds of theories and doctrines. So if you read those books, unless you are very nicely directed, that will create also perplexity. Śrutayo vibhinnam. And so far philosophical speculation is concerned, the Bhāgavata says that nāsau muni yasya mataṁ na bhinnam. Muni means mental speculator. So you cannot find any mental speculator who is not differing from another mental speculator. So tarkaḥ apratiṣṭhaḥ, the path of so-called logic and argument, is not perfect. Then, simply if you study different books of knowledge, that will also not give you perfect knowledge. If you consult so-called mental speculators, their different views, then dharmasya tattvaṁ nihitaṁ guhāyām. The ultimate goal of life is very confidential and mysterious. And how to know it? Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. Mahājana means the perfect realized souls who have realized, you have to follow them. That's all. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ. Therefore this process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is accepting the mahājana, the authority. The first authority is Kṛṣṇa. From Kṛṣṇa, Arjuna is hearing. There is no question about it. Now if you simply understand as Arjuna understood, then you have got the perfect knowledge. And if you speculate, if you try to comment in your own nonsense way, then you are misled immediately. So this is the way. Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. Mahājana means those who are perfect personalities. That will give you (?). That will do (?). Now, there are, according to Vedic system, there are twelve mahājanas. They are all in agreement that the supreme power is the Absolute Personality of Godhead. And they have become all devotees, they have served, they have prescribed rules and regulations. You can... So if we follow these rules and regulations and the mahājana, and many... As it is stated in Bhāgavatam, that those who have followed, they have got perfection. You can get also perfection, there is no doubt about it. Simply you have to follow the footprints of the ācāryas. Then your life will be perfect.
Thank you. If there is any question, you can ask.
Guest: What is the best time to (indistinct)?
Devotee: Early in the morning. (talking very low in background)
Guest: How do you know how to follow the footsteps of the mahājanas?
Prabhupāda: There is a paramparā, or disciplic succession of mahājanas. Just like Kṛṣṇa is the original authority. Now the paramparā system is there. From Kṛṣṇa, Brahmā heard; from Brahma, Nārada. If we do not go so far... Now, Kṛṣṇa spoke to Arjuna. Arjuna is mahājana therefore. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā that "Because you are My devotee, you are in full Kṛṣṇa consciousness; therefore I am speaking to you this confidential yoga system, Bhagavad-gītā." Bhakto 'si priyo 'si me [Bg. 4.3]. Rahasyaṁ hy etad uttamam. "The process was there. Now it is lost. So I am speaking to you again the old system because you are My devotee." Similarly those, or one person who is accepting the version of Arjuna, as Arjuna understood Kṛṣṇa, he is mahā jana, and you have to follow him. That's all. If somebody is speaking something against as Arjuna understood, he is not a mahājana. He's a rascal. The simple test. And you go to the Tenth Chapter, Bhagavad-gītā. Arjuna says, "Kṛṣṇa," sarvam etad ṛtaṁ manye yan vadasi keśava [Bg. 10.14], "whatever You are speaking, I accept it in toto, without any minus." This is mahājana. Not that according to my whims, I cut something, I accept something. No. One who is accepting the version of Arjuna or Kṛṣṇa, he is mahājana. You can follow him. That's all. It is simple thing. You haven't got to find out who is mahājana. The mahājana means who is following another mahājana, say follow Arjuna. He is mahājana. [break] read Bhagavad-gītā and try to understand how Arjuna understood it, then you get... And anyone following the footprints of Arjuna, he's mahājana. (end)
Lecture Excerpt

Montreal, June 29, 1968
Prabhupāda: ...ātmā and Paramātmā the same, but quantitatively ātmā and Paramātmā different. So the Supersoul is present everywhere. Supersoul is present within you, Supersoul is present within me, Supersoul is present in all ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls present here. But ātmā is individual ātmā. He is present in his body. For example, that you can feel what is happening in your body, the pleasure and pains of your body you can feel, but you cannot feel the pleasure and pains of other's body; therefore you are individual. Others are also individual. And the Paramātmā, He is everywhere. Aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham [Bs. 5.35]. This ātmā and Paramātmā, kṣetra, kṣetrajña is very nicely explained in the Thirteenth Chapter of Bhagavad-gītā. You'll profit by reading that. The Lord says that this body is kṣetra. Kṣetra means the field of activities. Everyone is acting according to the body he has got by the grace of material nature. So the body is the field of activity, and you or me, ātmā, we are the proprietor of the body. We are called kṣetrajña. And Kṛṣṇa says, kṣetra-jñaṁ cāpi māṁ viddhi sarve kṣetreṣu bhārata. Now I am present in my body, you are present in your body, but the Paramātmā, or Supersoul, is present in everyone's body. Another example can be given. Just like this house, there are many apartments. So I am occupying this apartment, another tenant is occupying another apartment. But the landlord is occupier or the proprietor of all the apartments. That is the difference between ātmā and Paramātmā. I am proprietor of the things which has been offered to me by material nature, but God, or Paramātmā is the proprietor of everything. That is the difference. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. Prakṛti, the material nature, is offering me as I want. She is supplying ingredients. If I want to be human being, then she supplies a similar body, and if I want to become a dog, she supplies similar body.
So actually, we are under the grip of this material nature, and we are being pushed life after life in different bodies by the influence of material nature. Prakṛteḥ kriyamāṇāni guṇaiḥ karmāṇi sarvaśaḥ [Bg. 3.27]. How prakṛti, nature, is working? According to the quality we acquire. Gunaiḥ. There are three qualities: the good quality, the quality of passion, and the quality of ignorance. So we are being contaminated by certain type of quality, and the nature is supplying me a type of body. And there are 8,400,000's of bodies, and we are going through them in a cycle. And as soon as we become, I mean to say, devotee, or we look forward to the Paramātmā, then we can be free from the cycle of repeated birth and death. This yoga system is..., meditation means to find out the Paramātmā. The Paramātmā is described in the śāstras: His feature, His body, His hand, Supersoul. And one has to meditate. And by meditation, when one is in samādhi, always thinking of the Supersoul, then he becomes freed from this material entanglement. That is self-realization. That is liberation. So Paramātmā and individual ātmā, or the living creature, they are qualitatively one but quantitatively different. Yes. Yes?
Indian man: Bhagavad-gītā explains that every devotee is protected by the Lord, and Prahlāda Mahārāja, in this life as Prahlāda Mahārāja, his father becomes a demon, demon, and he has to fight Nṛsiṁha. That means it is the karma of a previous life, and he's praying, he has to pray to the Lord to protect him. Or is it understood that he'll get the protection? So why this prayer?
Prabhupāda: He was protected. Devotees are not under the karma. In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is stated, karmāṇi nirdahati kintu ca bhakti-bhājām [Bs. 5.54]. Prahlāda Mahārāja was tortured by his father in so many ways, but he was not affected. He was not affected. Superficially... Just like in the Christian Bible also, that Lord Jesus Christ was tortured, but he was not affected. This is the difference between ordinary man and the devotees or transcendentalists. Apparently it is seen that a devotee is being tortured, but he is not tortured. There is one example, nice example. Just like the cat. The cat carries the kitties in the mouth, and it carries a mouse also in the mouth. So apparently it is seen that a cat is carrying its kitties in the mouth means it is in pain. But it is not in pain. That is a fact. Rather, she feels very comfortable. You see? But when the cat, the same cat, catches one mouse, his life is gone. But you see that she is carrying in the mouth both of them. Similarly, whenever you'll find that a great devotee is placed into torturing condition, he does not feel. But the demon thinks that "I am torturing him." Yes?
Guest: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Yes. Govinda is another name of Kṛṣṇa. Go means cows and go means land and go means senses. There are three meanings of go. So... And vinda means pleasure-giving. So He gives pleasure to the senses, He gives pleasure to the cows, and He gives pleasure to the land. That means whenever Kṛṣṇa appears, the land becomes very pleasing. The production, the situation, everything becomes very pleasing. So Govinda means one who gives pleasure to the senses and to the cows. Kṛṣṇa in His abode, Kṛṣṇaloka, is always busy as a cowherd's boy. Surabhīr abhipālayantam [Bs. 5.29]. He's always nursing the cows. He's always surrounded by cows. Surabhīr abhipālayantam. You see here is the picture. It is a cow. Govinda means the cowherd's boy, or one who gives pleasure to the senses. Gopāla. Go means cows and pāla means herds. So one who keeps the cowherds, that is also Gopāla. (end)
Lecture Excerpt

Montreal, July 18, 1968
Prabhupāda: Cloud cannot cover the sun. There may be a cloud overcast in the sky for hundred miles, but even hundred miles, is it possible to cover the sun, hundred miles cloud? The sun is itself so many hundreds of thousand times more than this earth. So māyā cannot cover the Supreme Brahman. Māyā can cover the small particles Brahman. So we may become covered by māyā or cloud, but the Supreme Brahman is never covered by māyā. That is the difference of opinion between Māyāvāda philosophy and Vaiṣṇava philosophy. The Māyāvāda philosophy says that the Supreme is covered. The Supreme cannot be covered. Then how He becomes supreme? The covering becomes supreme. Oh, there are so many arguments and so many... But we follow that the cloud covers the small particles of sunshine. But sun remains as it is. And we practically see also when we go by jet plane, we are over the cloud. There is no cloud outside. Sun is clear. In the lower status there is some cloud. If you go thousands of miles up, we don't see any cloud. Everything sunshine. Is there any question?
Devotee (1): Is the cloud in our mind or is the cloud in the sky also?
Prabhupāda: Everything is in your mind. Yes. So you have to clear your mind. That's all. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. The whole process is to clear the mind. Yes?
Devotee (2): Prabhupāda, even when the mind is cleared, does there not continue to be an objective temporary existence of material phenomena? Even when the mind is cleared, the material world still exists for so long as the (indistinct), so there's still temporary existence.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Devotee (2): So is that material principle which is manifested in beings is gone...
Prabhupāda: No. Material principle is side by side. Just like the cloud is always there in the sky, but if you be above the cloud, then it is all right. So you have to become above the material principles. And to become above the material principles means to accept everything in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, dovetailed with Kṛṣṇa. That will save you. You have to become above the cloud. Just like the jet plane takes the friendly sky. So we have to take the friendly energy, the spiritual energy. Mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ [Bg. 9.13]. Mahātmā, those who are mahātmā, great souls, they take shelter of the nature where there is no more cloud. Then it is very nice. You go on. So we have to become above the cloud. Not to be influenced by the material nature, but we take shelter of Rādhārāṇī, the spiritual nature. Not of Durgā.
Devotee (2): But the cloud still exists within the mind.
Prabhupāda: That doesn't matter. The police exists, but if you are not criminal it has nothing to do with you. You are not afraid of the police. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te. Police has nothing to do with law-abiding persons. Let the māyā remain there. You have nothing to do with her. Yes?
Guest: Swamijī, we always think of the pictures of Viṣṇu and Kṛṣṇa. There are, full of pictures, here, and also the usual pictures which you... When you think of the word "consciousness" and "life," as applied to the image of God, it seems to make sense. But how do you apply the concept of consciousness and life to a God conceived of in the terms like this image here?
Prabhupāda: Image... The image, we are not worshiping image.
Guest: No, what I meant was in the vague, abstract sense of thought, as we're talking about with Brahman...
Prabhupāda: There are stages, stages of God realization. Brahman realization is the first realization of God. Just like if you want to go to the... If you come to the light, sunshine, your first experience is the sunshine. But if you go still further, you..., if you are able to enter into the sun planet, that is another stage. And if you can find out the predominating deity in the sun planet, that is another stage. Similarly, the Brahman means you come out of the darkness of ignorance or māyā. That is Brahman realization. But if you go further, then you realize Supersoul, Paramātmā. And if you go further, then you realize the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate [SB 1.2.11]. The... Just like the same example, the sunshining, sun and the sun-god, they are one and the same. But when you are in the sunshine, you cannot say that you are seeing the sun-god. That will be mistake. But one who is in association with the sun-god, he's already in the sun planet, he is in front of the sun-god, and he is in sunshine. Is that clear? Yes. Brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate. Advaya-jñāna. Vadanti tat tattva-vidas tattvaṁ yaj jñānam advayam [SB 1.2.11]. Advayam, that light, is everywhere. Either sunshine or sun planet or sun-god, there is light. There is no darkness. Similarly, either you remain in the impersonal Brahman or absorbed in Paramātmā or in association with the Supreme Personality, it is all spiritual stage. But when you compare, then a person who is in direct touch with sun-god, he's far superior than the person who is in the sunlight. He cannot claim equal status. Sunlight may be possible within your room. That does not mean that you are associating with the sun-god.
So impersonal Brahman realization is also Brahman realization. The personal Brahman realization is the highest platform. Brahmaṇo 'ham pratiṣṭhā. In the Bhagavad-gītā you'll see that Kṛṣṇa says that "The impersonal Brahman is resting on Me." Ahaṁ pratiṣṭhā. Just like this bag is resting on this table. The table is more important than this bag. Similarly... Just like the sun planet. Although we are seeing it is just like a disk and the sunshine is overcast all over the universe, that does not mean that sunshine is more important than the sun disk. It is due to the sun disk that the sunshine is all over the universe. And if you think that sunshine is distributed all over the universe, therefore it is greater than the sun disk—no. The importance of the sun disk is more than the universally distributed sunshine. So impersonal Brahman realization is just like realization of the sunshine, but there are other stages. And the highest stage is to associate with the Supreme. Just like this picture, they are associating person to person. Another point is, as individual soul we require association, person to person. That is our nature. The Bhāgavata replies, ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninas tvayy asta-bhāvad aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. If somebody thinks by simple impersonal realization of Brahman, if he thinks that he has become liberated, then his intelligence is polluted. Ye 'nye 'ravindākṣa vimukta-māninas tvayy asta-bhāvad aviśuddha-buddhayaḥ. Aviśuddha means not free from contamination. His intelligence is not free. Why? Āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adho [SB 10.2.32].
The same example can be given. Suppose you are taking a jet plane to go to the sun planet or moon planet, but you are in the sunshine. You are more higher above the cloud region. Cloud is after, say, a few miles up, if you go, there is no more cloud. Finished. If you go above seven miles up, there is no more clouds. There is no question of māyā. That's all right. But if you go continually, if you do not get shelter in any other planet, then the next stage will be you have to come back. You cannot remain in that impersonal sunshine. You have to take shelter. If you don't get shelter, then you come back. Similarly, the impersonalist, for the time being they may think that they have Brahman realization, but because by nature he wants association, without getting association of the Supreme Lord he has to come back to make association with this nonsense. And this is practically we have seen. Many sannyāsīs, brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā, "Brahman is truth and the world is false." They take sannyāsa, and after some time they come to the hospital opening business. They come down again to politics, hospitals, philanthropy, welfare work. Why? If brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā, if this whole world is false, why you are taking this hospital business? Because there is no place. He has no engagement and he wants association. He wants to render some service, but there is no service to Kṛṣṇa. He comes to give service to the nonsense māyā. So āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padam [SB 10.2.32]. After accepting sannyāsa and all this renunciation, because he has no shelter to render service to the Supreme Lord, he comes down to render service to this nonsense thing which he left. Mithyā, it is false. He again comes to the false. I have seen one sannyāsī in India, very learned, very good scholar. Now he's rotting in the jail. He has taken to political movement. He wants to make, nullify this Pakistan and so many things. Now he has become a politician. Vivekananda came here to preach in 1893 to Vedānta. Now he learned the business of opening hospital. If you have taken sannyāsa, that brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā, "The world is false; Brahman is reality," then why you come to the false platform again? He has to, because he has no information of the reality. He wants to render service, but because he has not found out where to render service, he has to come to engage himself in this mithyā platform, which he has rejected as mithyā. So āruhya kṛcchreṇa paraṁ padaṁ tataḥ patanty adho [SB 10.2.32]. Even by their austerity and penances they go so up... Just the same example. A very nice sputnik, and running 20,000 miles an hour... (end)
Lecture Excerpt

Montreal, July 20, 1968
Prabhupāda: It is simply troublesome, kleśa. Kleśa means troublesome. Because they cannot concentrate. Avyaktā hi gatir duḥkhaṁ dehavadbhir avāpyate. Those who have accepted this body, for them, to think of something impersonal is simply artificial, is simply artificial. Therefore the impersonalists or the void philosophers, their process of so-called yoga is simply troublesome, and maybe some profit there, but the ultimate profit, they cannot have. It is not possible. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is clearly said that yoginām api sarveṣāṁ: [Bg. 6.47] "Of all the yogis, the one who is thinking of Kṛṣṇa or Viṣṇu..." Because that is the ultimate goal. One has to come to the point. That point, of course, one has to come ultimately, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante [Bg. 7.19], after many, many births. It is simply obstinacy. One who does not take to the meditation of God, or they want to meditate in something other, void or impersonal—that is not possible; that is simply troublesome—so simply they are wasting time because ultimately they have come to this point of personal conception of the Supreme Lord. Bahūnāṁ janmanām, after many, many births, if they are fortunate enough to meet some real devotee, then he becomes enlightened. And vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19]. He then accepts Vasudeva, Kṛṣṇa, as everything. Sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ: "Such kind of great soul is very rare."
So here is an opportunity to get directly that post of great soul by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. So it is very scientific. We can present this formula to any person who wants to understand this movement scientifically, philosophically, logically. There is no dearth of all these things in this movement. We are not sentimental at all. Of course, there must be sentiment. Without sentiment, nobody can come to the stage of ecstasy. But that sentiment is transcendental sentiment. This is not ordinary sentiment. Sentiment, when religion or any faith is devoid of philosophy and logic, then it is material sentiment. And philosophy and logic without understanding of God is simply waste of time, mental... [break] So both should be combined, religion plus philosophy. One should understand the principles of religion with philosophy and logic. We are claiming college students, university students, because we are presenting religion on the basis of philosophy and logic. We are not blindly following. We have not dogmatism. We have got reason, philosophy, and everything, science. If you want to understand this Kṛṣṇa consciousness on the basis of philosophy, logic and science, we are prepared to present to you. But the ultimate goal is to surrender unto the Supreme. So although you will find some of the students joining us, they are not very great philosopher or great scientist or great educationist, but they have accepted the reality, Kṛṣṇa. Therefore they are the highest yogis. They are highest yogi. Just like if somebody is offering one million dollars, one may understand it or may not understand it, what is the value of one million dollars. But if one has got that one million of dollars, then he is rich man undoubtedly. Similarly, the boys and the disciples and the followers of this movement, who are accepting Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Lord, oh, they have already got that millions of dollars. They are richest. They may not understand it, that what is the value of Kṛṣṇa, but because... Just like fire. If you touch knowingly or unknowingly, it is fire and it will burn your body. Similarly, if Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then one who has taken Him, then he will derive the highest benefit undoubtedly.
Thank you very much. Any questions? [break]
Devotee: ..."the conqueror of sleep" is one of his names. How and what relation can develop greater love for Kṛṣṇa through conquering sleep?
Prabhupāda: Sleep?
Devotee: Resting.
Pradyumna: He said Arjuna's another name was Guḍākeśa.
Prabhupāda: Guḍākeśa. Guḍākeśa. Guḍākeśa means one who has conquered sleep. Sleeping means māyā, or darkness. Just like in sleeping you do not know where you are, similarly, a person who is in the darkness... Everyone is, in this material condition of life, everyone is in darkness. He does not know wherefrom he has come, what for he has come, what he has to do, and where he is going next. All these questions are darkness for him. So anyone who has conquered over this darkness, he is called guḍākeśa. So Arjuna did it. He knew, by the grace of Kṛṣṇa; therefore his another name is Guḍākeśa. Everyone is in darkness. Ask him, "What what you were in your past life? What you are going to become in your next life? Why you have come here?" "Why you have become American?" "Why you have become Indian?" "Why you are white?" "Why you are black?" "Why you are suffering?" "Why you are enjoying?" So many "whys." Ask them. They will not be able to answer. Therefore they are in darkness. So anyone who knows all these things, he is out of darkness. So try to be like Arjuna, to become out of darkness. That is the Vedic injunction. Tamasi jyotir gamaḥ: "Don't remain in darkness. Just try to go to the light." This is light. Just like it is very commonsense affair that I, the soul, is eternal. I am changing my body from the very inception in the womb of my mother. And because I am changing this body, therefore I am nowhere? I am gone forever? Ask the greatest scientist. He will say like that. It is a commonsense affair. Just like a child. Because he cannot see the sun at night, he may say, "Oh, sun is gone, dead and gone." But no scientist, no intelligent man will say. "My dear child, the sun is not gone. The sun is there. I cannot see now." That is the fact. Similarly, these foolish persons, because they cannot see the soul and because the body is left there and it is destroyed, he says that there is no soul. Just see how childish and how much darkness is there. It is commonsense affair. How this body...? I am taking this body so important, the body of such and such professor, such and such scientist, such and such philosopher. But as soon as I, the soul, go away, where is the importance? If the body is important, why it becomes nonsense immediately after the departure of the soul? Therefore the soul is important. One who does not know the soul, his all activities are defeat. Parābhavas tāvad abodha-jato yāvan na jijñāsata ātma-tattvam. Anyone who has not inquired about the soul, because he is born ignorant, born in darkness, he does not know what is soul, what is this body, what is this world. Therefore born in darkness. So if in that darkness and ignorance he is acting so many things, what is the profit? It is simply defeat. So a person who does not inquire into the existence of soul, his real identity, all his so-called improvement is simply waste of time. Śrama eva hi kevalam [SB 1.2.8]. Simply laboring, that's all. The whole world is doing that, beating the bush, laboring for nothing. He does not know that how long he will remain. Suppose you are in America. You are now Mr. Ford. You have constructed a very skyscraper building. But how long you shall remain in this skyscraper building? How long you shall remain American or Mr. Ford? Next life, as soon as your body is changed, then you are Mr. Dog or Mr. Cat or Mr. this or Mr. Chinaman, Mr. Indian. That means if, in my next life, I become Mr. such and such instead of Mr. Ford, then all the activities that I have done as Mr. Ford is simply waste of time. That he does not know. This is ignorance. And one who has conquered this ignorance, he is Arjuna. Is it clear?
Devotee: Thank you Prabhupāda.
Guest: Is Kṛṣṇa consciousness the knowing or the awareness of the Absolute?
Prabhupāda: Certainly. Otherwise, why you are laboring so hard? To know yourself, know the Absolute. Three, five things. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to know perfectly well five things. What are those? God, living entity, and this material nature, the time factor, and the activities. God, the supreme controller. However you may declare there is no God, there is a supreme controller. That we have to admit. There are so many things that which does not depend on our so-called scientific advancement of knowledge. It depends completely something else. Supreme controller. So that is God. They may call it nature, but they do not know nature, what is nature. So God, and we are living entities. We are godly. We have got the same activity. As God is the creator of the whole universe, we are also creator of some skyscraper building or a city like Montreal or New York. We may do that. But in comparison to the God's creation and my creation, there is no comparison. It is very insignificant. If you go high up on the sky, you will see this globe is just like a point. And there are millions and trillions of globes and planets like this. They are full of all opulences as you find here. So that is God's creation. In comparison to that creation, suppose if you have created a city or a skyscraper building. What is there? That is called living entity, minute; and the Lord: greatest. God is great; you are minute. Understanding of God, understanding of the living entities. Then try to understand this material nature. What is this material nature? The material nature is exactly like your body. This body is working so nicely because you, the soul, is present within this body. That is a fact. You do not know how your hairs are growing, how your nails are growing. You are claiming, "It is my hair; it is my nail," but can you explain how it is growing? No. Similarly, the nature's work is going on wonderfully. Just like my... That is... So many things are going on wonderfully due to the presence of the spirit soul. Similarly, all this nature's work is going on so wonderfully due to the presence of God, the Supersoul. This is understanding of the material nature. Then God, living entity, material nature, and then time. Time is eternal. There is no past, present, and future. It is my calculation, according to... That is relativity. That is the modern scientific proposition by Professor Einstein. Your time and my time, he has also stated that the time factor in the higher planets are different. In the higher planet the time factor—our six months makes their one day. Just like our so many yugas makes twelve hours of Brahmā. So time is according to the different object. But time is eternal. Actually, there is no past, present, future, or limitation. This is understanding of time. So God, living entity, material nature, time, and the activities. What are these activities? The activities are not eternal; they are temporary. You have got this temporary American body. You are thinking American. You are busy twenty-four hours as American. I am Indian. Or these boys... The boy's activities are different, the woman's activities are different, man's activities are different, the Russian's activities are different, and American's activities, different. All different activities. So therefore activities are temporary. Temporary, according to the time, according to the atmosphere, according to the body, the activities are... Just like the dog, unnecessarily running this side, this side. He thinks that "I am very busy." He is very busy. He is businessman. But you are calling, "A nonsense dog is running here and there." Similarly, all these activities by your motorcar, they may think it is very important, but those who are in higher status, they are thinking like dog is going this side, that side, this side, that side. So the activities are temporary.
So we have to find out our eternal life, our eternal activities, our eternal place, and eternal bliss. Those things are explained in the Bhagavad-gītā and further explained in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And that is, we are moving as Kṛṣṇa consciousness... [break] A sane man should take very serious view of this movement and it should be pushed all over the world. Otherwise you remain in darkness. You never become guḍākeśa. You remain in guḍāka. Never īśa. Guḍāka-īśa, guḍākeśa. Guḍāka means darkness, and īśa means master. So you remain in guḍāka, but not guḍākeśa. So if you want to become guḍākeśa, master of this ignorance, then surrender to Kṛṣṇa. You'll get it.
"It is very difficult to surmount this darkness of ignorance, but anyone who surrenders unto Me, he immediately surmounts."
So this is the greatest service to the human society, to get out them from the darkness of ignorance. That is the greatest gift. If you put him into the darkness... Suppose a man is suffering from disease and he is asking, "Sir, I am very hungry. Give me some food." If you give him some rasagullā or some very nice foodstuff, neither he cannot eat, neither he can enjoy. And by supplying such things you are making him more and more diseased. You have to cure the disease. Then give him. That's right. So there is no curing process. Simply sense gratification. I want to satisfy my senses, and if somebody talks about my sense gratification, oh, I receive him very nicely. You see? And as soon as one says that "You are diseased. You cannot satisfy your senses without restriction. Then you will continue your disease," "Oh, this is not good. This doctor is not good." This is going on. You want to be cheated; therefore there are..., so many cheaters are coming. Just like this Maharishi came. "Yes, enjoy your senses. Enjoy. Simply pay me thirty-five dollars. I give you some mantra." People gave him thousand, millions of dollars, and at the end both of them became dissatisfied. He said, "It is failure," and who were followers, they left him. So what is the use of? Don't try to be cheated. If you want to be cheated, then Kṛṣṇa will send you some cheater. And if you want to be really profited, if you simply think of Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa... (end)
Lecture Excerpt

Montreal, July 27, 1968
pañca-tattvātmakaṁ kṛṣṇaṁ
bhakta-rūpa svarūpakam
bhaktāvatāraṁ bhaktākhyaṁ
namāmi bhakta-śaktikam
So Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya is full representation of Kṛṣṇa in six aspects. That is... In the beginning of Caitanya-caritāmṛta it has been explained, vande 'haṁ gurūn īśam īśāvatārakān īśa-bhaktān [Cc. Ādi 1.1], prakāśāṁś ca tac-chaktīḥ, like that. So the Supreme Personality of Godhead is principally not divided, but He is understood under six primary features. The primary, first feature is guru, because guru gives the initiation to understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That feature is represented by Śrī Nityānanda Prabhu. He is the original guru feature, and He is first manifested expansion of Kṛṣṇa.
There is a prayer of Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura in which it has been established that vrajendra-nandana yei, śacī-suta haila sei, balarāma haila nitāi. Vrajendra-nandana means Kṛṣṇa, the son of Mahārāja Nanda. Mahārāja Nanda was very rich man. He had ninety hundred thousand of cows. Formerly people were considered rich by possession of cows and grains—not by paper. (laughter) At the present moment, we have got bunch of paper. As soon as the particular government is finished, we are all..., we shall be finished. You simply... Just like in Germany it happened. The mark was selling like anything. You see? So these are not money. Actually money means... Either you say livestock or grain stock, that is money. So in Sanskrit literature we find dhānyena dhanavān. One who has got large quantity of paddy, rich, he is rich man. Still in India, in villages, when a daughter is to be offered to a particular house, it is inquired, "How much stock of grains that family has got?" They do not inquire, "How much stock exchange he has got in the bank?" No. But factually, if you have got grains at your home, then there is no question of economic problem. If you have simply got grains and cow, then you won't have to go other place. You are... That was the basic principle of civilization, that you possess some cows and some land so that you can produce foodstuff. That's all. Your whole economic problem is solved. You see?
So therefore so much stress is given for cow protection. Amongst the division of society, the brāhmaṇas, the kṣatriyas and the vaiśyas and the śūdras... Śūdras means non-Aryan. And Aryans, they are divided into three higher castes. Caste means according to profession and quality. That is caste. In the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ [Bg. 4.13]. That is factual everywhere. If you have got the quality and if you are working... (end)
Speech to Indian Audience

Montreal, July 28, 1968
Prabhupāda: ...vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam. Lord Caitanya instructed this verse. He gave us eight verses, known as Śikṣāṣṭaka. Śikṣa means "instructions"; aṣṭaka, "eight." This Śikṣāṣṭaka poetry, containing eight verses, are very valuable, and they were given by Lord Caitanya for understanding of the whole human society. It was not meant for any particular country or particular society, but it was meant for the whole human race. Lord Caitanya entrusted His countrymen, who are known as Bhāratīyas, to distribute this message througho ut the whole world, in every village and every town. There is a nice Bengali verse in Caitanya-caritāmṛta:
The Lord predicted that "As many towns and villages are there on the surface of the world, everywhere this message will be known." And He also said,
He entrusted his countrymen—means any Indians. Not that because He appeared in Bengal it was entrusted to the Bengalis, but He said that bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra: "on the land of Bhārata-varṣa." India is known as Bhārata-varṣa. Perhaps most of you know it. This is after the name of King Bhārata. There was a great king, Bhārata, who was the emperor of the world, and this planet was named Bhārata-varṣa after his name. Before that this planet was known as Ilāvṛta-varṣa. And after Mahārāja Bhārata, this planet was named as Bhārata-varṣa. But gradually, there was partition. As recently also there has been partition of India—Hindustan and Pakistan—similarly, this planet, known as Bhārata-varṣa, was partitioned gradually, one after another. So then the other names—Europe, Africa, or America, or Germany—these names gradually developed. Actually the whole planet was known as Bhārata-varṣa. That we understand from the Vedic history. And there was one king. That king also belonged to Hastināpura, which is called at the present moment New Delhi, near about that.
So anyway, Lord Caitanya entrusted to spread this message to the Indians. Bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra [Cc. Ādi 9.41]. There are many kinds of living entities. There are men, there are animals, there are birds, beasts, trees, aquatics—all of them are living entities. But He is entrusting to the manuṣya. Bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra. "One who has taken his birth as human being, Indian human being, to him I am entrusting this message, that this should be distributed all over the world in villages, in towns, this message." So I am especially speaking to the Indians present here, that you have got a responsibility on behalf of Lord Caitanya. If you believe in our śāstras, in our ācāryas, then those who are present here as Indians, I will request them to take this responsibility of spreading the... (aside:) This is disturbing. ...this message of Lord Caitanya all over the world. And He said, bhārata-bhumite manuṣya-janma haila yāra, janma sārthaka kari [Cc. Ādi 9.41]. Janma sārthaka kari means "First of all make your life successful." You cannot distribute this transcendental message without making your life successful. Janma sārthaka kari. That means persons who are born in India, they have got the facility for making life successful. How? Because there is immense treasure-house of transcendental knowledge in India. It is known to everyone, in every part of the world. Unfortunately, we Indians, we do not know the value of our spiritual treasure-house. I have got one German Godbrother. He was formerly known as Mr. Hans Sulyea(?). He is now Sadānanda Swami. He is living in Sweden. And one of his disciples, Vāmana-datta... What is his German name?
Devotee: Dr. Eisen (?).
Prabhupāda: Yes. He has written a very nice authorized book on Lord Caitanya in German language, and it is very big book, paperback, five hundred pages. It is approved by the Sweden University, and he has sent me. So even a German gentleman, he is taking so much interest. And this Mr. Sulyea, he told me long, about forty years before... At that time I was also householder. So he told me that "If some student come to Europe and then come to Germany, first of all we try to test him, how much he has got his original cultural knowledge." He said that "If we find that this boy, the student, knows something of Indian original cultural life, then we welcome him. Otherwise we reject him."
So we Indians, we should know that we cannot imitate the Western countries. They are far advanced. So far materialistic way of life is concerned, you cannot compete with them. Just like some years before there was industrial exhibition in India in which the government was very proud to show that they are manufacturing cycle and sewing machine. When Western part of the world, they are manufacturing so many complicated machineries, we are proud of manufacturing cycle and sewing machine. Similarly, in every respect... In medicine also, there are so many laboratories in India, but still, seventy-five percent of the medicines are imported from foreign countries, because they are lagging behind. So my point is that in every country, in every human society, there is a special qualification. The day before yesterday I was seeing one picture in that church, of Hardwar. Millions of people assembled there for taking bath in the Ganges. In 1958 there was a special fair in Jagannātha Purī. It was written in the almanac that on that particular day, if somebody takes bath in the sea and has an audience of Lord Jagannātha, then he will be liberated. I was also there and with other friends. You'll be surprised to know that for a few-hour visit, about six million people assembled from all parts of India. And government had to make a special arrangement for their taking bath in the sea and visiting the temple. Similarly, there is Kumbha-melā. These assemblies are not advertised. People know it by paramparā. I am speaking to you; you are speaking to your friend. In this way they know it, and on that particular day they assemble at a place, just like Prayāga, on the confluence of Ganga and Yamunā. Millions of people will assemble. So still, in spite of our present leaders' policy to completely eradicate all religious ideas... They have made secular state. But people are so born that naturally they are inclined to take part in spiritual movement. That is the nature. Therefore Lord Caitanya said that bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra [Cc. Ādi 9.41]. To take one's birth in the land of India, to take one's birth as human being, is great opportunity undoubtedly. But still more great opportunity is there who has taken his birth in India. We are... We must be proud, provided we do not forget our own Vedic culture.
Unfortunately, the present policy is that students are being taught to forget their old Vedic culture and try to imitate the Westernized way of life, industrial life, technical life. That is being encouraged. But here I find that the young men and young girls and boys, both, they are very much interested about Indian original culture of spiritual life. Recently, you know, some yogi came, and he simply bluffed so many people that "If you pay me thirty-five dollars, I will give you one personal mantra, and you will be in transcendental life," or so many things. So thousands and thousands of European boys and girls, as well as in America, they flocked together, but later on, they were frustrated. That means while the Indian youths are coming to the Western countries for advancement of technological knowledge, the Western boys and girls, they are hankering after spiritual life. This I have very particularly studied. I am here, not in Canada, in America. I came here in 1965, and I am studying the mind of the younger generation especially. They are hankering after something, spiritual enlightenment, not only in America, also in Europe. And they expect something from India because... It is a fact. I have read one book written by one Chinese gentleman. That book is recommended in the New York University for study. That Chinese gentleman is very learned man. He has given comparative studies of all religion and philosophies, but he recommends that "If you want to study religion as it is, then you have to go to India." So our Indian spiritual culture is still adored and worshiped by the learned section of every part of the world. And especially in America and Germany and England, they are hankering after it. We should be little careful that this knowledge, transcendental knowledge, as distributed by Lord Caitanya, should be seriously taken up by the responsible Indians present here. Unfortunately, I see that Indians are not very much interested, but that is our misfortune. Actually, Caitanya Mahāprabhu entrusted this mission that anyone who has taken birth as human being on the land of Bhārata-varṣa should learn this spiritual science very seriously, make his life successful, and distribute all over the world so that people of the world may become happy. That was His mission. Now, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is started on this mission, on the mission of Lord Caitanya, that to distribute,
harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma iva kevalam
kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā
[Cc. Ādi 17.21]
That in this age of Kali there are many differences of opinion for self-realization, or transcendental life, or religious life, but this common formula, chanting of the holy name of God, can be accepted by everyone.
Unfortunately, people in the present age, they think that God is dead. And what is the use of chanting something, somebody who is dead, chanting the holy name of God, who is already dead? The other day I was speaking in the church that God is not dead. God cannot be dead. Neither you or me cannot be dead. There is living symptom in your body, and there is living symptom in the cosmic manifestation also. Just try to understand what is God. Then place your verdict, whether God is dead or not. How God can be dead? Just like when a man is lying on the floor, if his vital condition, his pulses, his heart is going on, then how you can say that that man is dead? Similarly, if you study the cosmic manifestation... Of course, it is a subject matter to be learned very scrutinizingly with calm head, that as your body is functioning nicely by physiological arrangement, similarly, the body of the cosmic nature, by physical arrangement it is also moving nicely. Therefore, so long your bodily functions are going on nicely, you are not dead. Similarly, the Supreme Soul is also not dead because by the symptom of His gigantic body, universal body, we see that everything is nicely going on. So God is not dead. This is a statement of the crazy fellow. God is not dead; neither we are dead. Now, we, being part and parcel of the Supreme Lord, our function is just to serve the Supreme. This example of body I have said many times in this class, that as the part and parcel of your body, namely the hands, the legs, the eyes, the ears, they are meant for serving the whole body, similarly we, being part and parcel of the Supreme Whole, we are also meant for serving the Supreme Whole. So God is not dead; we are also not dead. We shall be dead when we cease to function as part and parcel of the Supreme Whole. That is our death.
It is very nicely analyzed in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam:
ya eṣāṁ puruṣaṁ sākṣād
ātma-prabhavam īśvaram
na bhajanty avajānanty
sthānād bhraṣṭāḥ patanty adhaḥ
Now, just like this finger or this hand is grown from this body, similarly, the different parts of human social body is also born out of the whole body of universal body of God. They analyze that the intelligent class of men, they are born of the mouth of the universal form of God. The administrative class of men, they are born out of the arms of the universal form of God. The mercantile class of men, they are born out of the abdomen of the universal form of God. And the laborer class of men, they are born out of the legs of the universal form of God. Now, so far the body is concerned, either the mouth or head or the legs, no part of the body is less important, because every part of the body is required for proper function of the body. But by comparative study, the head is most important than all other parts of the body. If head is cut off from the body, then body becomes immediately dead. But if your hand is cut off from the body, the body still remains alive. It is not dead. So the intelligent class of men who form the head of the society, if they are lacking, if there is no intelligent class of men, then it is to be considered that sort of human society is dead, because the head is not there. Similarly, at the present moment there is lack of intelligent class of men. Intelligent class of men... Who is intelligent class of men? There are so many intelligent class of men. So according to Bhagavad-gītā, intelligent class of men can be tested by some qualification. What is that? Satya śaucaṁ samaḥ damaḥ titikṣa ārjavam, jñānaṁ vijñānam āstikyaṁ brahma-karma svabhāva-jam [Bg. 18.42]. Intelligent class of men means... First qualification is that he must be truthful. Then satya, śaucam. He must be always clean. Bahyābhyantaram: he must be clean without and within. "Without" means..., on the external body, cleanliness means soap and water. But inside cleanliness means Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So bahyābhyantara-śuciḥ. Satya, śaucam and śamam, controlling the mind, and damam, controlling the senses. Then ārjavam, simplicity; and titikṣa, tolerance; jñānam, full knowledge; vijñānam, practical application of the knowledge; and āstikyam, and full faith in God. They are called intelligent class of men.
Now, if you put to this test of intelligent class of men, hardly you will find one in thousand or one in million. Therefore the present social structure is practically without any intelligent class of men, or without any head. At the present moment the whole society is going on by manufacturing some schemes that "This scheme will be successful for the proper execution of our human activities." But another man gives you another plan. Therefore in the political world there are so many "isms," and they are fighting with one another. That means there is no standard intelligence. I differ from you; you differ from me. Now, nobody knows who is intelligent. So by this analytical study we can understand that at the present moment there is need of intelligent class of men. Not that everyone should be intelligent, but even a small percentage of people, if they become intelligent, with these qualifications—truthful, clean, and controlling the mind, controlling the senses, simplicity in behavior, and tolerance, knowledge, application of knowledge in practical life, and full faith in God... That, these nine symptoms, brahma-karma svabhāva-jam... [Bg. 18.42]. The intelligent class of men is called brāhmaṇa, according to Vedic literature. And the next class, the administrative class, is called kṣatriyas, and the next class is called the vaiśyas, and the general class of men is called the śūdras. So even in that, according to Vedic literature, it is said that kalau śūdra sambhava. In this age, practically all men are on the standard of śūdra category. Kalau śūdra sambhava. So this movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, is started so that even one is born a śūdra by qualification, he can be raised to the standard of the highest intelligent class of men, brāhmaṇa, by pāñcarātrikī-viddhi. By pāñcarātrikī-viddhi it is said that it doesn't matter what a man is, but if he is trained up by dīkṣā process, tathā dīkṣā-vidhānena dvijatvaṁ jāyate nṛṇām... Dvijatvam means twice-born. Twice-born, they are, the brāhmaṇas are twice-born, the kṣatriyas are twice-born, and the vaiśyas are... That means higher class of men, they are called twice-born. Why twice-born? Because one birth is made by father and mother and the next birth is made by Vedic knowledge and spiritual master. This is the system. So nobody is born brāhmaṇa or intelligent class of men, but by cultivation of knowledge, by practice, by good association, one can come to the higher standard of life. And when one is on the platform of goodness, then one has to transcend that platform of goodness and come to the platform of pure goodness. In the material world, even a man is supposed to be very good man, there is possibility of his being affected by the modes of passion and ignorance. But in the transcendental platform, which is called viśuddha-sattva, pure goodness, there is no possibility of interaction of these three qualities of material nature, namely goodness, passion, and ignorance.
The Bhagavad-gītā concludes, therefore,
If anyone engages himself fully and seriously in the devotional service of the Supreme Lord, Kṛṣṇa... Yo mām avyabhicāreṇa bhakti-yogena. Avyabhicāriṇi means without any deviation, firmly fixed up. And bhakti-yogena, in devotional service, if one is engaged, sa, that person, guṇān... Guṇān means these three qualities: passion, ignorance, and goodness. Sa guṇān samatītya. Samatītya means completely transcending. He transcends completely. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate [Bg. 14.26]. He becomes situated on the platform of Brahman, and that is the highest perfection of knowledge. Now we are identifying ourself that "I am part of this material world. I am part of this land or that land." "I am Indian because I am born in India." "I am American because I am born in America." Everyone is thinking like that. That means "I am part and parcel of this material world." But by this transcendental elevation to the platform of Brahman, when one becomes self-realized or understands himself as part and parcel of the Supreme Brahman, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ [Bg. 15.7], "All these living entities are My part and parcels," similarly, when the living entities in highest perfection understand that he is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa, or the Supreme Brahman, his life is on the transcendental platform.
So that transcendental platform is also explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā na śocati na kāṅkṣati [Bg. 18.54]. As soon as one is situated in that Brahman platform, he is free from all anxieties immediately. Caitanya Mahāprabhu explains that brahma-bhūtaḥ situation, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. Immediately. So the brahma-bhūtaḥ platform, which we have to ascend after so much qualification, so much understanding, so much practice of yoga, dhyāna, meditation, can be achieved in this age by the blessings of Lord Caitanya simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Simply by chanting. Caitanya Mahāprabhu... As I have explained, that one has to lift himself to the platform of brahma-bhūtaḥ stage, when one is free from all anxieties. Now, Caitanya Mahāprabhu says that simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, paraṁ vijayate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanamwhat is the gain? The first gain is ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12], cleansing of the heart. What is that cleansing? That I am thinking at the present moment in my material concept of life that "I am part and parcel of this matter." And when we come to the understanding that "I have nothing to do with this matter; I am accidentally in contact with the matter, but my real position is that I am spirit soul, brahma-bhūtaḥ..." Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. Ahaṁ brahmāsmi. Ahaṁ brahma. Lord Śaṅkarācārya, he preached this philosophy, that... Just try to understand, but don't try to misunderstand. Unfortunately, this understanding that ahaṁ brahmāsmi, people are misunderstanding that "I am God." He is not... Nobody can be God. God is supreme. God is great. We are very small. If I am God, if I am great, then how I have come to this position? How I have fallen from my brahma-bhūtaḥ stage? That is not actually understanding. Brahma-bhūtaḥ, ahaṁ brahmāsmi, means "I am part and parcel of the Supreme Brahman." This is also confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā and every Vedic literature, that the living entities are just like sparks of the fire, just like there is big fire and there are sparks also, small particle of fire. That small particle of fire is also fire, but it is not as big as the big fire. Similarly, in quality we are as good as Brahman, but in quantity we are minute, infinitesimal, and He is infinite. That is the difference.
So this philosophy of Bhagavad-gītā, supported by the movement of Lord Caitanya, chanting the holy name of Hare Kṛṣṇa, we are trying to push on in this part of the world, in pursuance of the order of Lord Caitanya, that pṛthivīte ache yata nagaradi grāma. So I'll request Indian ladies and gentlemen who are present here to join this movement. This is your duty. Because you are Indian, you have got this duty. If you forget your duty, then you are forgetting your identity. So my special request in this meeting is for the Indian ladies and gentlemen to support this temple, and by supporting this temple, to support this movement. It is good not only for the Indians—for everyone. It is no sectarian religion. It is completely scientific and philosophical. Everyone can accept it, not dogmatically, but with reason and argument. And you can practically see that all my students, none of them are Indians. Until now, they are all American. They are educated, they are intelligent. They are trying to understand it with all logic and philosophy, and when they understand it nicely, they take to it very seriously. So my request is that this is a very nice movement. Everyone, either Indian, American or Canadian, should take part in it and encourage us.
Thank you very much. (end)
Lecture Excerpt

Montreal, August 23, 1968
Prabhupāda: So to love Kṛṣṇa we don't require anything. Ahaituky apratihatā. It is open for everyone, but we should learn to sacrifice for Kṛṣṇa. That is the sign of love. Yat karoṣi yad aśnāsi yaj juhoṣ [Bg. 9.27]i. If you... You are eating. If you simply decide that "I shall not eat anything which is not offered to Kṛṣṇa," then Kṛṣṇa will understand, "Oh, here is a devotee." "I shall not see anything except Kṛṣṇa's beauty." Kṛṣṇa can understand. "I shall not hear anything except Hare Kṛṣṇa and topics on Kṛṣṇa..." These things are there. It does not require that you become very wealthy, very beautiful, or very learned. You have to decide that "I shall not do this without Kṛṣṇa. I shall not do this without Kṛṣṇa. I shall not mix with any man who is not Kṛṣṇa conscious. I shall not talk anything which does not speak about Kṛṣṇa." So your... "I shall not go anywhere except Kṛṣṇa's temple. I shall not engage my hands in anything except Kṛṣṇa's business." In this way, if you train your activities, then you love Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa is purchased—simply by your determination. Kṛṣṇa does not require anything from you. Simply He wants to know whether you have decided to love Kṛṣṇa. That's all.
Ahaituky apratihatā. Ahaituky apratihatā means it is not dependent on anything. You can yourself automatically, by whatever asset you have got—thinking, feeling, walking, eating, sleeping—whatever you have got. By such things, by using those things in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you can purchase Kṛṣṇa. This is the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. You haven't got to acquire something extra for loving Kṛṣṇa or purchasing Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa becomes purchased. Therefore... Kṛṣṇa cannot be purchased. His name is Ajita. He cannot be conquered, but His devotee can purchase Him, can conquer Him. Just like you have seen the pictures in our Back to Godhead about Bhīṣma, that it was just joking, but he knew that "Arjuna cannot be killed because he is very dear friend of Kṛṣṇa. So these people are requesting me to kill Arjuna. So I shall show my capacity of fighting." And actually Arjuna became perplexed. Bhīṣma wanted to see that Kṛṣṇa shall have to break His promise for His devotee. "I know I shall not be able to kill Arjuna, but at least I shall see that Kṛṣṇa has broken His promise." So Kṛṣṇa actually did not break His promise. He did not accept any weapon, but He simply showed Bhīṣma that "I have come to kill you with this wheel of the chariot." His sudarśana-cakra is different. These are the reciprocation. Kṛṣṇa can do anything for His devotee. Personally He may be very severe, but for devotee He can do anything. That means devotee can purchase by his devotion. (end)
Lecture Excerpt

San Francisco, September 14, 1968
Prabhupāda: So we have to continue this chanting, either imperfectional stage or in the perfectional stage. Satatām kīrtayanto mām [Bg. 9.14]. In the Bhagavad-gītā, you will see that this kīrtana is recommended continuously. Satatam. Satatam means always. Either in the imperfect stage or in the perfect stage, the process is one. It is not like the Māyāvādīs, that first of all you chant, and by chanting, when you become yourself God, then there is no chanting—stop. This is Māyāvāda philosophy. This is not real, the position. Chanting will continue even in your highest perfectional stage. But that chanting and at the present moment chanting, there is little difference. Yes.
Upendra: Swamijī, if our rasa with Kṛṣṇa is eternal, and we want to have the rasa of lover with Kṛṣṇa, is it possible to change? If our rasa is like father to son, we can never become lover?
Prabhupāda: No. You have got eternal relationship with Kṛṣṇa. That cannot be changed. You're constitutionally in position, in a certain position. Either you have got... But every relationship is spiritual and nice. If you have got that inclination that you want to be Kṛṣṇa's lover, then that means originally you are already in relationship with Kṛṣṇa in that stage. That will be revealed when you are in perfectional devotional stage.
Devotee: Swamijī, the other night you said that one who uses his body for the purpose of Kṛṣṇa, then his body becomes spiritual. How then is the body still subject to change?
Prabhupāda: Spiritual in the sense... Just like... This example also I have given several times. Just like you put an iron rod in the fire. When it becomes warmer, warmer, red hot, it is fire. It is no longer iron. Similarly, when you are completely absorbed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness and service, you are completely spiritual. Your material activities... Because your material activities have stopped, therefore your body is no longer material. Materialism means... Just try to understand. Material..., what is materialism and spiritualism. Materialism means sense gratification, and spiritualism means to love God. That's all. Personal sense gratification. Here the relationship is just like a girl or a boy. The so-called love is temporary. That's all. There is no love. As soon as there is some discrepancy of sense gratification, oh, there is separation. There is divorce. There is separation. Because the so-called love is based on sense gratification. That is materialism. And when there is no sense gratification, the satisfaction of the lover only, that is spiritualism. So in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, when your business will be only to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, then you must know that your senses and your body have become spiritualized. Actually, in higher platform, there is nothing material thing. Higher platform means when a person sees nothing but Kṛṣṇa as everything. Even himself, he's also Kṛṣṇa. (end)
Lecture on Teachings of Lord Caitanya

Seattle, September 25, 1968
Prabhupāda: (chants:) Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. (devotees respond)
So we are worshiping govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ. Ādi-puruṣam, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, original. You have to find out the original. That is called philosophy. Philosophy means searching out the original. Darśana. In Sanskrit word it is called darśana, to see the original, to find out the original. So the original information is given by Vedānta-sūtra. What is that origin? Athāto brahma jijñāsā. One should be inquisitive to understand about the origin. That is the chance in this human form of life. We do not know the origin. The scientists, they explain, "Perhaps," "Like this; it was like this," 'Perhaps," "It might be like this." That is not explanation. So the direct explanation is..., very nice explanation is given by the Vedānta-sūtra what is that origin. The Vedānta-sūtra says, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. The origin is that from which everything is born. That is the origin. Now we have to find out what is that thing from whom everything is born. That is Kṛṣṇa. The great sages, they have searched out what is that origin. And in the Brahma-saṁhitā it is said,
Sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam means the cause of all causes. They have searched out. Scientifically they have searched out that Kṛṣṇa is the origin.
In Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also it is described, kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28]. There may be different kinds of Bhagavān, or the Personality of Godhead. Not different kinds, but different expansion, extension. But Kṛṣṇa is the origin. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. The expansion of Kṛṣṇa may be understood just like a person. He is, at home, a father, a husband, like that, and when he's office, he's boss, or when he's clerk, he's secretary. In this way, a man may be in different position, in different circumstances, but the man is the same. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa, the original Personality of Godhead, might have assumed the form of Viṣṇu, Nārāyaṇa, Govinda, so many. But this original form is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam. And in the Bhagavad-gītā also Kṛṣṇa explains Himself, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavaḥ: [Bg. 10.8] "I am the origin of everyone." Mattaḥ sarvaṁ pravartate: "Everything emanates from Me, all the energies." Just like from the sun globe the energies are coming out incessantly just like flows of water, and everything is being created in this material world through the sunshine, similarly, the shining principle which is emanating from Kṛṣṇa, which is known as brahmajyoti, is the origin of everything. So kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam [SB 1.3.28].
So this Kṛṣṇa science is a very great science, and Bhagavad-gītā explains this Kṛṣṇa science very nicely, the origin of everything. And we should take advantage of this great book of knowledge, Bhagavad-gītā. It is already known in your country, Bhagavad-gītā. There are many editions, but unfortunately, sometimes Bhagavad-gītā is misinterpreted and people are misled to understand the origin. Therefore we have the opportunity to publish the Bhagavad-gītā as it is. We have entrusted the matter to Messrs. Macmillan Company. They are going to publish the book next month. So try to understand Bhagavad-gītā as it is without any interpretation. Then you will understand the origin.
So the process of understanding Bhagavad-gītā is very nicely stated in the Bhagavad-gītā itself. And in our disciplic succession the Ṣaḍ-gosvāmī, the six Gosvāmīns, of whom I offered a prayer in the beginning, vande rūpa-sanātanau raghu-yugau śrī-jīva-gopālakau... So we are publishing another book, Teachings of Lord Caitanya. So the printing is complete. That book also will come next month. So I shall request some of you to read the teachings to Lord..., teaching to Sanātana Gosvāmī. Will somebody come here? You'll read? Yes. Sit down there.
Girl: Right here?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Open page number twenty-nine. What is that, heading?
Girl: "Teachings to Sanātana Gosvāmī."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Read it.
Girl: "In the instructions of Lord Caitanya to Sanātana Gosvāmī we can understand the science of God in the matter of His transcendental form, His opulences, and His devotional service, where everything is being described to Sanātana Gosvāmī by the Lord Himself. By that time Sanātana fell at the feet of the Lord and in great humility asked about his own real identity."
Prabhupāda: Read little slowly so that..., and loudly, so that others can hear.
Girl: "He spoke as follows. 'I am born of a lower family. My associations are all abominable and I am fallen. The most wretched of mankind, I was suffering in the dark well of material enjoyment, and I never knew the actual goal of my life. I do not know what is beneficial to me. Although in the mundane sphere I am what is known as a great learned man, I am in fact so much of a fool that I even accept that I am learned.' "
Prabhupāda: "I am...? I am so much fool that I accept...?" What is that?
Girl: "...that I am learned."
Prabhupāda: "I am learned." Now, this Sanātana Gosvāmī, he was formerly known as Dabira Khāsa. He was born in a high aristocratic family, brāhmaṇa family, and he was finance minister in the government of Nawab Hussain Shah, the then Bengal governor of Bengal. It is about five hundred years ago India was governed by the Pathans, Muslims, and in Bengal the governor was known as Nawab Hussain Shah. Under his government this Dabira Khāsa was minister of finance, and his brother also, Sākara Mallika, he was also a departmental minister. So both the brothers were in very high position. They were great scholar in Sanskrit and Parsi, Urdu. Parsi, Urdu, you know the language spoken in Arabia, in that part of the world. So they were very good scholar and born in very aristocratic family and associated with rich men, aristocratic persons. Because they were ministers, no ordinary person could mix with them. So that was their position. And when they met Lord Caitanya, they decided to retire from the service and propagate the movement of Lord Caitanya, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So he resigned from the service. The Nawab was very much sorry. He did not like that he should resign from the service because the Nawab was so much dependent on his good service. But he decided that "I must resign." So some way or other he got rid of the service and approached Lord Caitanya in a very humble way. Now he's presenting himself before Lord Caitanya that "I am very low born, and my association is abominable. And people call me a very learned man, and I also accept that I am very learned man. But actually, I am not, because I do not know what I am." It is very nice picture, you see? In the Vedas the injunction is that if anyone wants to understand the transcendental science, he must approach to a bona fide person or a spiritual master in such humbleness as Sanātana Gosvāmī is approaching. He is born of a very high aristocratic family, but he says that "I am born very low." He's very learned man, but he says that "People say me learned man, but actually I am not." Just the position. So why he's saying that? That will be explained. Because actual learning means to know oneself. That is real knowledge. This knowledge that "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am born of this family," "I am father of this person," "husband of that lady," and this and that, so many designations, that is not real knowledge. Real knowledge is to know oneself. That is being taught by Sanātana Gosvāmī, that "I do not know what I am. I am simply identifying myself with this body. That is not real knowledge." He's presenting in that way. Read next.
Girl: "You have accepted me as Your servant and You have delivered me from the entanglement of material life. Now You can tell me what my duty is in this liberated state of life."
Prabhupāda: Now he, he was a minister. Now he thinks that after resigning this service he's feeling liberated. Because he hasn't got to obey somebody who is a materialistic person, therefore he's thinking liberated. And he's asking Caitanya Mahāprabhu, whom he has accepted as his master, "Now You have liberated me. Now You can say what is my duty." Go on.
Girl: "In other words, as we see by this plea, liberation is not the final word in perfection."
Prabhupāda: Yes. Here is one point. He says that "You have liberated me. Now let me know what is my duty." This is very important point. The Māyāvādī philosopher, they think that liberation is the ultimate goal. Just like in Buddha philosophy, the nirvāṇa. Nirvāṇa means annihilation of material existence. Nirvāṇa. They think that as soon as there is annihilation of this material existence, that is the final goal. The Māyāvādī philosopher or the impersonalist, they think that not only to get freedom from this material existence, but to remain in spiritual status, jñānam, simply in the knowledge that "I am spirit soul. I am merged into the spirit soul," that is their goal. But here, the Sanātana Gosvāmī, he belongs to the Vaiṣṇava philosophy. He says, "Now what is my duty?" That means after liberation it is not that everything is void or activity is stopped. No. Actually activity begins after liberation. At the present moment our activities are not liberated activities. At the present moment all our activities are conditional, but actually I am not... Because I am spirit soul, therefore I'm not under material condition. But somehow or other, I am now put into material conditions. This is also explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. When one is actually liberated, brahma-bhūtaḥ, that is called brahma-bhūtaḥ. When one is not liberated he's called jīva-bhūtaḥ. Just like we are, ordinary living entities, we are under designations, and in the concept of this body, we are thinking everything. But actually I am not this body. I am not matter. I am a spirit soul. When this understanding comes, that is the point of liberation. And after that liberation, actual duty begins. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā also.
Liberation means there is no more anxiety. In the conditioned state we are always full of anxiety, and the liberated state... Just like when a man is attacked with fever, he's always suffering. As soon as the fever is gone, he is liberated. Similarly, the material concept of life, when we are freed from the material concept of life, that is the beginning of our liberation. Actually, liberation will be maintained by liberated activities. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just like a man is suffering from some disease, so he cannot act freely. But when he is out of the disease, then he can act freely. To get out of the disease does not mean that there will be no activity. The Buddha philosophy and the Māyāvāda philosophy say that after liberation, activity stops. But this Vaiṣṇava philosophy says no. After liberation real activity begins. Go on.
Girl: "There must be activities in liberation. Sanātana clearly asks, 'You have saved me from the entanglement of material existence. Now after liberation what is my duty? Kindly explain it to me.' Sanātana further inquired, 'Who am I? Why are the threefold miseries always giving me trouble? And finally, tell me how I will be relieved from this material entanglement.' "
Prabhupāda: Now here is another question, that when... Our inquiries should be how to get out of the threefold miseries. In the conditioned state... Just like an animal. Animal is always suffering. That is a fact. Everyone knows. In the lower grade of life than human being, every animal is always under very strict condition. Why? What is the difference between civilization and not civilization? The difference is that their life is most conditional life. In the civilized life there is a pinch of liberation. So what is that statement? Yes. Threefold miseries. Threefold miseries are there in every living condition, but when a man is enhanced or advanced in knowledge he can understand that "I am under always threefold miseries." What are those threefold miseries? Miseries, that I explained the other day. The threefold miseries means first, pertaining to the body and mind, and second, miseries inflicted by other living entities, and miseries by nature or higher authorities. Just like severe cold or severe heat or famine or earthquake. They are also miseries. This is beyond our control. So miseries which are beyond our control. So far bodily disease, mental disturbance, we can get some remedy in our own way. We can go to a psychiatrist or we can go to a doctor and get some medicine and get relief. And so far miseries from other living entities, we can take protection, we can defend ourself. But so far miseries offered by the demigods, daiva, there is no remedy. If there is all of a sudden here earthquake, oh, there is no remedy. You have to suffer. If there is, all of a sudden, there is inundation, you cannot. If there is, all of a sudden, there is thunderbolt, you cannot make any remedy. So threefold miseries are always there, either one or two or three. So Sanātana Gosvāmī is presenting himself that "People call me very learned man, but I am so learned that I do not know why I am suffering from these threefold miseries." These question do not arise. Actually, when people will come to the understanding, when they will inquire that "Why I am suffering from the threefold miseries...?" The threefold miseries is summarized in Bhagavad-gītā by four principles: janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam [Bg. 13.9]. If a man is actually learned and intelligent, he should always see before him that there are four kinds of distresses. What is that? The distress of taking birth, the distress of dying procedure, janma-mṛtyu, and distress of old age, and distress of diseases. So we are very much proud of our advancement of knowledge, but actually there is no solution for these four principles of miseries. There is no remedy. They are trying to control birth rate, janma, but still, every minute there are increasing, the population of the world is increasing. Similarly, they are trying to save people from death, but still, people are dying in hundreds and thousands. And they are trying to get out of this old age. So many medicines, so many cosmetics, but old age is taking place. And so far disease, we can discover many high-grade medicines, but there is no stoppage of disease. So one should be very intelligent that there is no remedy for these four kinds of miseries, janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi. And a learned man should be inquisitive, "If there is any remedy?" So Sanātana Gosvāmī is presenting himself before Lord Caitanya, that "People say that I am very learned man. But I am so learned man that I do not know what I am and why I am suffering from these miseries although I do not like to suffer." Go on.
Girl: " 'I do not know how to question You about the advancement of spiritual life, but I beg that You kindly, mercifully, let me know everything that I should know.' This is the process of acceptance of a spiritual master by the disciple. One should approach a spiritual master and humbly submit to him and then inquire from him about one's spiritual progress. The Lord was pleased by Sanātana's submissive behavior, and He replied as follows. 'You have already received benediction from Lord Kṛṣṇa.' "
Prabhupāda: Here... Here is another point, that Sanātana Gosvāmī approached his spiritual master, Lord Caitanya, and he submitted himself in such a way that his spiritual master, Lord Caitanya, was very pleased. So that should be the point of disciples, how to please the spiritual master. And Viśvanātha Cakravartī Ṭhākura, he has composed eight stanzas as prayers of spiritual master. And in the seventh stanza he says, yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādaḥ **. If you can please your spiritual master, then you know that God, or Kṛṣṇa, is pleased. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasādo yasyaprasādān na gatiḥ kuto 'pi **. And if you cannot please your spiritual master, then you must know that you do not know your whereabouts. You do not know where you are going. So Sanātana Gosvāmī was actually following the disciplic principles. He wanted to please Lord Caitanya submissively. To please the spiritual master means to approach him submissively, not in a challenging mood. The Bhagavad-gītā also explains in this way:
Tad viddhi praṇipātena. If you want to understand the spiritual science, then you have to approach to a person where you can completely surrender yourself. Because everyone is proud: "Oh, who can teach me? Why shall I go to a spiritual master? I know everything." That is the general mentality. Therefore Bhagavad-gītā gives us direction that you should go to a person where you can fully surrender. So you have to find out a bona fide spiritual master where you can surrender your pride. Then tad viddhi praṇipātena. Praṇiptena means surrender. Paripraśnena. If you find out such, if you are fortunate enough to find out some person where you can surrender, then you can put questions before him. That Sanātana Gosvāmī is putting, that "What is my position? I think that I am very learned man, I am born of very aristocratic family and so on, so on, but actually, I do not know what I am. What is my position?" This is paripraśna, inquiry. Surrender, inquiry, and sevayā. That answer should be received in service mood.
So these are three formulas. Simple questions will not help us. The question should be put to a person where you have got full surrender and you have got the service mentality. You cannot ask spiritual master or any person whom you think is greater than you in a challenging spirit. Then you will be deceived. In a submissive way, of course, you have got right to place questions, and with service mood. So Sanātana Gosvāmī is the vivid example of this disciplic succession. Tad viddhi praṇipātena [Bg. 4.34]. In the Vedas also the same injunction is there. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. If you want to learn that transcendental science, then you must approach to a person who is heavier than you. Guru. Guru means heavier. You don't go to a person who is lighter than you. Heavier. Heavier means heavier in knowledge. So the same thing is explained everywhere. And Sanātana Gosvāmī is ideal disciple and Lord Caitanya is the ideal teacher, and we should learn how to approach a teacher and what is the qualification of a teacher. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna was talking with Kṛṣṇa in the beginning on friendly terms, just like a friend talks with his friend. But when he saw that his problem was so great that it could not be solved on friendly talks, it must be seriously understood, so he also surrendered himself. Śiṣyas te 'haṁ śādhi māṁ prapannam: [Bg. 2.7] "My dear Kṛṣṇa, now from this point I accept You, my spiritual master, and I surrender unto You. Please teach me." And then He began teaching. These are the process. Then?
Girl: " 'And therefore you know everything and you are free from all the miseries of material existence.' The Lord further replied that because Sanātana was in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, naturally, by the grace of Kṛṣṇa, he was already conversant with everything. 'But because you are humble, a humble devotee, you are asking Me to confirm what is already realized by you.' "
Prabhupāda: This is another point. Even one thinks that he knows everything, still, he, before the spiritual master, he should be blank slate, that "I do not know anything." That is the qualification of the disciple. He should approach the spiritual master as if he does not know anything. Go on.
Girl: "These are the characteristics of a true devotee. In the Nārada-bhakti-sūtra, it is said that one who is very serious about developing his Kṛṣṇa consciousness by the grace of the Lord has his desire for understanding Kṛṣṇa fulfilled very soon. The Lord said, 'You are a suitable person for protecting the devotional service of the Lord. Therefore it is My duty to instruct you in the science of God.' "
Prabhupāda: Here is another point, that one should not accept somebody as spiritual master all of a sudden. At the same time, the spiritual master also should not accept anybody as his disciple immediately. Now Sanātana Gosvāmī is proving himself that he's qualified disciple, and Lord Caitanya is accepting him, that "You are just the suitable person; therefore I shall accept you as My disciple and teach you the science of Kṛṣṇa consciousness." Yes.
Girl: " 'And I will explain to you everything, step by step.' It is the duty of the disciple approaching the spiritual master to inquire about his constitutional position. In conformity to that spiritual process, Sanātana has already asked, 'What am I and why am I suffering from the threefold miseries?' The threefold miseries are called ādhyātmika, ādhibhautika, and ādhidaivika. Ādhyātmika means caused by the body and mind. Sometimes the living entity suffers bodily and sometimes he is distressed mentality. Both are ādhyātmika miseries. We experience these miseries even in the womb of our mother. There are many forms of miseries that take advantage of our delicate body and give us pain. Miseries inflicted by other living entities are called ādhibhautika. There are many living entities such as bugs born of eggs that cause us miseries while we are sleeping in bed. There are many living entities like cockroaches that sometimes give us pain. And there are other living entities born on different kinds of planets, and they also cause us miseries. So far as ādhidaivic miseries are concerned, they originate with the demigods from the higher planets. For instance, sometimes we suffer from serious cold weather, sometimes we suffer from the thunderbolt, sometimes from earthquake, tornadoes, droughts, and other natural disasters. So we are always suffering one or another of three kinds of miseries. Sanātana's inquiry was 'What is the position of the living entities? Why are they always undergoing these three kinds of miseries?' Sanātana has admitted his weakness. Although he was known by the mass of people as a greatly learned man, and actually he was a highly learned Sanskrit scholar, and although he accepted the designation of a very learned man given him by the mass of people, yet he did not actually know what his constitutional position was and why he was subjected to the threefold miseries. The necessity of approaching a spiritual master is not a fashion, but is for he who is seriously conscious of the material miseries and who wants to be free of them. It is the duty of such a person to approach the spiritual master. We find similar circumstances in the Bhagavad-gītā..."
Prabhupāda: Yes, this is very important point, that a spiritual master should not be accepted as a matter of fashion. Somebody thinks that "Everyone gets a spiritual master, so I may also have some spiritual master." Or "I may keep some spiritual master as my pet." Just like somebody keeps some pet dog or pet cat. So they want also, "Somebody must be my spiritual master, and whatever I order him, he'll carry." So such kind of fashionable spiritual master is useless. A spiritual master, it is defined in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Who requires a spiritual master? That is stated: tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta [SB 11.3.21]. Tasmād. Tasmād means "therefore." "Therefore one should approach a spiritual master." What is that "therefore"? Jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam. If one is actually inquisitive to understand about the spiritual existence, then he requires a spiritual master. A spiritual master does not mean that he'll teach you how to keep your body fit, how you can reduce your fat, how you can remain a young man, so many nonsense. This is not the duty of the spiritual master. However you may try to keep your body fit, how long you shall keep your body fit? As soon as you are born, the death is also born along with you. Suppose one man is twenty-five years old. That means he has already died twenty-five years. So you cannot protect yourself from death, however you may become very strong, stout. Therefore actual education, actual spiritual knowledge begins, as stated in the Bhagavad-gītā... The Bhagavad-gītā, the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā is that when Arjuna surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, He immediately said that "My dear Arjuna, you are posing yourself as very learned man but you are fool number one." Why? "Because you are identifying yourself with this body." Aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase [Bg. 2.11]. "My dear Arjuna, you are talking just like very learned man, but you are lamenting on the subject matter of your body." Gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ. Actually one who is learned, he has no necessity for lamenting on the subject, on the body, either living or dead. So the whole process of education in the materialistic way of civilization is on the body, how to keep the body fit, how to avoid death, how to avoid disease. Simply concentration on the body. So this bodily concept of life is immediately discouraged in the Bhagavad-gītā.
aśocyān anvaśocas tvaṁ
prajñā-vādāṁś ca bhāṣase
gatāsūn agatāsūṁś ca
nānuśocanti paṇḍitāḥ
[Bg. 2.11]
Paṇḍitāḥ means those who are learned, they are not affected by this body, either dead or alive. So that means one should be inquisitive to learn about the soul which is sitting in the body. That is real knowledge.
So one who is inquisitive about understanding that knowledge, he requires a spiritual master. Not that one who wants to keep this body fit or wants to reduce fat. No. For him there is no necessity of spiritual master. That he can go to a doctor or a medical physician. That's all. He can advise. What is the use of going to a spiritual master? Spiritual master means jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam. Who can teach you about the highest benediction, he is spiritual master. So we shall discuss in next meeting. This is very interesting, and you'll be profited if you please come and hear.
Devotees: Hare Kṛṣṇa. (offer obeisances)
Prabhupāda: Any question? (pause) No question? Yes?
Jaya-gopāla: Prabhupāda? These days there are so many men who claim to have found the Absolute, who claim to be spiritual masters in their own way. How does one tell who is a bona fide spiritual master?
Prabhupāda: Yes. What is your idea of bona fide spiritual master?
Jaya-gopāla: One who can teach the Absolute.
Prabhupāda: So a spiritual master... Just like Kṛṣṇa is spiritual master, and Lord Caitanya is spiritual master. We are talking about Lord Caitanya's teaching to Sanātana Gosvāmī. That means Lord Caitanya is the spiritual master. Similarly, in the Bhagavad-gītā we find Arjuna is taught by Kṛṣṇa Bhagavad-gītā. So there is no difficulty to understand who is spiritual master. Is there any difficulty? Because we see that Lord Caitanya is teaching Sanātana Gosvāmī and Kṛṣṇa is teaching Arjuna. So both Lord Caitanya and Kṛṣṇa are spiritual master. Is there any difficulty to understand? So anyone who represents Lord Caitanya and Kṛṣṇa, he is spiritual master. That's all. Anyone who speaks exactly what Lord Caitanya said, exactly what Kṛṣṇa said, then he is spiritual master. Just like a teacher who says that "I have passed M.A." Now what is the proof? That means if he speaks exactly like persons who have passed M.A. examination, then he is M.A. A medical practitioner who is approved by other medical practitioners in the medical college, he is medical practitioner. Similarly, if you want to test who is spiritual master, you have to see the standard spiritual master, Kṛṣṇa and Lord Caitanya and similar. Even Lord Jesus Christ, there are..., Lord Buddha, they are also spiritual masters, but they spoke in different circumstances. That is different thing. But if you want to know who is a spiritual master, then you have to test him whether he is speaking exactly like the bona fide spiritual master. Śrī Narottama dāsa Ṭhākura has explained about this, who is spiritual master. What is that? He says, sādhu śāstra guru vākya tinete kariyā aikya. If you want to advance yourself in spiritual science, then you have to test these three things. What is that? Sādhu, saintly person. Sādhu, śāstra, scriptures, and spiritual master. Now suppose you want to know who is a spiritual master. Then you have to test whether he's speaking just like other saintly persons and whether he's following scriptures. Sādhu śāstra. So you have to test a spiritual master by corroborating whether he is speaking according to the scriptural injunction, whether he's speaking to other saintly persons. So in the world, anywhere you go, the standard spiritual master... Take it, Lord Jesus Christ or Buddha or Śaṅkara or Rāmānujācārya or Caitanya—nobody will say that you make adjustment here and live peacefully. Everyone will say that you have to extinguish this material existence. Lord Buddha says nirvāṇa, and Śaṅkara says brahma satyaṁ jagan mithyā, and Kṛṣṇa says sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Lord Jesus Christ says that "You have to go the kingdom of God. Just come with me." So nobody says that "Let us make United Nation organization and stick up to thousands of flags, and let there be peace and prosperity, and let the war go on in any part of the world." That is not spiritual master. Spiritual master means that he is interested with the other world beyond this material world. That is spiritual master. Yes?
Woman: What then is a master?
Prabhupāda: Master means who is master of the science. That's all. He must know everything of spiritual life. That is master.
Woman: Are there not many planes in mastership?
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Upendra: "Are there not many planes in mastership?"
Prabhupāda: Yes, there is. But you have to accept the standard platform by your advancement. Just like somebody accepts somebody as master, that is according to his own mentality. And somebody accepts somebody else as master, that is his mentality. But the highest, according to Vedic literature, Kṛṣṇa is the supreme master. Because all the ācāryas, all the spiritual masters of Vedic perfection, just like in the recent years Śaṅkarācārya, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, and Viṣṇu Svāmī, Lord Caitanya, all of them, they have accepted Kṛṣṇa as the supreme spiritual master. All of them. Even Śaṅkarācārya, he's impersonalist, still he has accepted Kṛṣṇa. Sa bhagavān svayaṁ kṛṣṇa. He says that the Supreme Personality of Godhead is Kṛṣṇa. That is mentioned in his commentary of Bhagavad-gītā. And what to speak of Vaiṣṇava ācāryas, they accept. And Caitanya Mahāprabhu, he says, yāre dekha tāre kaha kṛṣṇa-upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. If you want to become a spiritual master, then try to disseminate the teachings of Lord Kṛṣṇa. So that is our, so far we are concerned, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, our ideal spiritual master is Kṛṣṇa. Yes?
Upendra: Swamijī, someone approached me and we were discussing about Kṛṣṇa consciousness. And I said to approach Kṛṣṇa one must be pure, but he said, "What is purity?" Could you explain that technically? What is purity?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Purity means standing on the spiritual platform. That is purity. In the material platform there is no purity. So according to Bhagavad-gītā, that standard of purity, that means standing on the spiritual platform, which is called brahma-bhūtaḥ. Brahma-bhūtaḥ. So Kṛṣṇa says this purity,
This Brahman understanding, or to stand on the Brahman platform, is purity. How one can attain that platform of purity? Kṛṣṇa says that "One who is engaged in devotional service to Me without any deviation," that means twenty-four hours in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, "he is pure." He is pure. If you can keep yourself always, constantly in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, always thinking of Kṛṣṇa, then you are pure. Otherwise... Kṛṣṇa consciousness or God consciousness, it doesn't make any difference. So just like if you keep always in touch with fire you are warm—there is no possibility of being cold—similarly, some way or other if you always keep yourself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness or God consciousness, then you are pure. Therefore we advise our students, "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa." As soon as you chant this sound, Kṛṣṇa, immediately you are in touch with Kṛṣṇa. Therefore you are, you keep yourself pure. Is that clear? Yes. So try to keep yourself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness without any deviation. Then you remain pure. That is also confirmed in the Bhagavad-gītā, daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī... [Bg. 7.14]. [break] It is very difficult to get out of the clutches of this māyā, contamination. Very difficult. Mām eva ye prapadyante: "But one who keeps touch with Me, with full surrender," māyām etāṁ taranti te, "he's out of these clutches of māyā." So just like there is antiseptic, what is called, vaccination, to keep yourself from the contamination... There is epidemic, and under government order everyone is vaccinated, that "You take this. So you shall keep your..." This is material way of keeping oneself from contamination. Similarly, if you keep always yourself in spiritual understanding of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you remain pure. Yes?
Woman: What then are the guides? Are they also masters in a sense?
Upendra: What then are the guides? Can you repeat the question again?
Woman: What then are the guides? Are they also masters of a sense? Spiritual guides.
Prabhupāda: Yes. One cannot be a spiritual guide unless he's not master of the senses. Therefore the spiritual guide is called svāmī or gosvāmī. Svāmī means who is master of the senses. He's not servant of the senses. Generally, people are servant of the senses. One who becomes master of the senses, he can become spiritual master. Otherwise not. All right. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (devotees offer obeisances) You chant. Chant. Mādhavī-latā, you can chant. You. You and Mādhavī. Mādhavī. All right. (end)

Seattle, September 27, 1968
Prabhupāda: Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. (response) Thank you. So our program is to worship the original Supreme Personality of Godhead, Kṛṣṇa. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. In this material world everyone is trying to get happiness and to get relief from distress. Two things are going on, attempt. There are different processes. Material process is completely absurd. That is already proved. No amount of material comforts or happiness, so-called happiness, can give us the actual happiness that we are hankering. That is not possible. Then there are different other processes also. There are three kinds of miseries due to our material conditional life: ādhyātmic, ādhibhautic, ādhidaivic. Ādhyātmic means pertaining to the body and to the mind. Just like when there is some disarrangement of the different functions of metabolism within this body, we get fever, we get some pain, headache—so many things—so these miseries are called ādhyātmic, pertaining to the body. And another part of this ādhyātmic misery is due to the mind. Suppose I have suffered a great loss. So the mind is not in good condition. So this is also suffering. So for diseased condition of the body or some mental dissatisfaction there are miseries. Then again, ādhibhautic, sufferings offered by other living entities. Just like we are human being, we are sending millions of poor animals to the slaughterhouse daily. They cannot express, but this is called ādhibhautic, sufferings offered by other living entities. Similarly, we have to suffer also sufferings offered by other living entities. God's law you cannot, I mean to say, supersede. So material laws, state laws, you can hide yourself, but God's law you cannot hide yourself. There are so many witnesses. The sun is your witness, the moon is your witness, the day is your witness, the night is your witness, the sky is your witness. So how you can supersede the laws of the Lord? So... But this material nature is so constituted that we have to suffer ādhyātmic, pertaining to the body, pertaining to the mind, and sufferings offered by other living entities, and another suffering ādhidaivic. Ādhidaivic, just like somebody is ghost-haunted, a ghost has attacked him. Ghost cannot be seen, but he's suffering delirium, speaking something nonsense. Or there is famine, there is earthquake, there is war, there is pestilence, so many things.
So sufferings are always there. But we are trying to adjust by patchwork. Sufferings are always there. Everyone is trying to get out of sufferings, that is a fact. The whole struggle for existence is to get out of the suffering. But there are different kinds of prescription. Somebody says that you get out of the sufferings in this way, somebody says you get out of the sufferings in that way. So there are prescription offered by the modern scientists, by philosophers, by atheists or by theists, by fruitive actors, so many there are. But according to Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, you can get out of all sufferings if you simply change your consciousness, that's all. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. As I have given you several times the example... All our sufferings are due to lack of knowledge, ignorance. That knowledge can be achieved by association of good authorities. There is a nice Bengali verse,
kṛṣṇa bhuliya jīva bhoga vāñchā kare
pāsate māyā tāre jāpaṭiyā dhare
As soon as our original consciousness becomes polluted with the consciousness of material enjoyment, that "I want to lord it over the resources of matter..." As soon as we turn our consciousness in this way, then our troubles begin. Immediately māyā. This very consciousness, that "I can enjoy this material world to my best capacity..." Everyone is trying to do that. Every one of us, beginning from the ant up to the highest living creature, Brahmā, everyone is trying to become one of the lords. Just like recently in your country there were so many canvassing for becoming the president. Why? The same idea. Everyone is after becoming some kind of lord. This is māyā. Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is completely opposite. We are just trying to become the servant of the servant of the servant of the servant of Kṛṣṇa. Just opposite. Instead of becoming the lord, we want to be the servant of the servant of Kṛṣṇa. Gopī-bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dāsa-dāsānudāsaḥ [Cc. Madhya 13.80].
So in the modern trend of civilization, people may say that this is slave mentality. It is very good idea. "Why shall I become a slave? I shall become the master." But one does not know that this consciousness, that "I shall become the master," is the cause of his suffering. This philosophy has to be understood. Because constitutionally we are all servants. In the name of becoming master of this material world we have become the servant of our senses. Because constitutionally we are servants. We cannot do without serving. Every one of us who are sitting in this meeting is a servant. Now, these boys who have taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, they have agreed to become servant of Kṛṣṇa. So their problem is solved. But others, who are thinking that "Why shall I become the servant of God or servant of Swamijī? I shall become the master..." But actually, he cannot become the master. He's the servant of his senses, that's all. Just try to understand. Servant he must be, but he's servant of his lust, he's servant of his avarice, he's servant of his greediness, servant of his anger, servant of so many things. Kāmādīnāṁ kati na katidhā pālitā durnideśāḥ. In higher state, somebody has become the servant of humanity, somebody has become the servant of the society, somebody has become the servant of the country, but actual purpose is that "I shall become the master." That disease is there. The candidates for presidency, they are presenting their different manifestations..., no, manifesto, that "I shall serve the country very nicely. Please give me your vote." But the real idea is that "Some way or other, I shall become the master of the country." So this is māyā. So if we understand this small philosophy, that constitutionally I am servant... There is no doubt. Nobody can say that "I am free, I am master." Nobody can say. If he thinks like that, that is māyā. It is false. Can anybody say in this meeting that he's not servant of anybody or anything? He must be, because that is his constitutional position. But the difficulty is that by serving our senses, there is no solution of the problem, of the miseries. For the time being, I may satisfy myself that I have taken this intoxication, and under the spell of this intoxication I may think that "I am nobody's servant. I am free," but that is artificial. As soon as the hallucination is gone, he comes to the point, again servant. Again servant.
So this is our position. But why this struggle is there? I am being forced to serve, but I don't wish to serve. What is the adjustment? The adjustment is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that if you become servant of Kṛṣṇa, then your aspiration to become master, at the same time your aspiration of freedom, is immediately achieved. Just like here you'll see one picture of Arjuna and Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Lord. Arjuna is a living entity, living being, a human being, but he is in love with Kṛṣṇa as friend. And in exchange of his friendly love, Kṛṣṇa has become his driver, his servant. Similarly, if every one of us, we become reinstated in the transcendental platform of loving Kṛṣṇa, then our aspiration of mastership will be fulfilled. That is not known at present, but if we agree to serve Kṛṣṇa, then gradually we'll see that Kṛṣṇa is serving you. That is a question of realization. But if we want to get out of this service of this material world, of the senses, then we must transfer our service attitude to Kṛṣṇa. This is called Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
kāmādīnāṁ kati na katidhā pālitā durnideśās
teṣāṁ mayi na karuṇā jātā na trapā nopaśāntiḥ
(utsṛjyaitān atha yadu-pate) sāmpratam aham labdha-buddhis
tvām āyātaḥ (śaraṇam abhayaṁ) niyuṅkṣvātma-dāsye
One devotee is praying to Kṛṣṇa that "So long, in my life, I have served my senses," kāmādīnām. Kāma means senses, lust. "So even what I should not have done, still, by the dictation of my lust I have done it." One has to do. When one is a slave or servant, then he's forced to act something which he does not like to act. He's forced. So here, a devotee's admitting that "I have done, dictated by my lust, something which I should not have done, but I have done it." All right, you have done, you are serving your senses. That's all right. "But the difficulty is that teṣāṁ karuṇā na jātā na trapā nopaśāntiḥ. I have served so much, but I find that they are not satisfied. They are not satisfied. That is my difficulty. Neither the senses are satisfied nor I am satisfied nor the senses are kind enough to give me relief, pension from the service. That is my position." If I would have seen that, rather if we would have felt that "I have served so many years my senses, now my senses are satisfied..." No. They are not satisfied. Still dictating. Still dictating. "I am very..." Of course, it is very natural, but I may disclose herewith that some of my students said that in an elderly age of his mother, he's(she's) going to marry. Just see. She has got grown-up children. And somebody complained that his grandmother also married. Why? Just see. In seventy-five years old, in fifty years old, the senses are still so strong that she is being dictated: "Yes, you must do it." Try to understand practically how the senses are strong. It is not that simply the young men are servant of the senses. Even seventy-five years old, eighty years old, or at the point of death, they are all servants of senses. The senses are never satisfied. That is the material dictation. So I'm servant. I am servant of my senses, and by serving my senses, neither I am satisfied nor my senses are satisfied nor they are pleased upon me. There is chaos. So this is the problem.
So best thing... Therefore Kṛṣṇa says, Lord Kṛṣṇa says,
You have served your senses so many lives, life after life, 8,400,000 of species of life. The birds, they are also under senses. The beasts, they are also under senses. The men, human being, and everyone, the demigods, everyone within this material world, they are after senses, serving the senses. But Kṛṣṇa says that "You just surrender unto Me. Just agree to serve Me. Then I take charge of you." That's all. Ahaṁ tvāṁ sarva-pāpebhyo mokṣayiṣyāmi śucaḥ. Because by the dictation of the senses we are committing sinful activities life after life; therefore we are in different grades of bodily presentation. Don't think that everyone is of the same standard. No. According to one's own work he gets a type of body. So these different types of bodies are due to different grades of sense gratification. So sense gratification is there in the hog's life also. Why he has been offered a body of the hogs? So much sensuous that it has no discrimination who is mother, who is sister, or who is this, or who is that. This is practical, you'll see. The dogs and hogs, they are like that. In human society also there are many who don't care who is mother, who is sister, or who is this. The senses are so strong. And this is our cause of all miseries, try to understand. The threefold miseries that we are suffering, that we are trying to make a solution, is due to this dictation of the senses. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is there. Kṛṣṇa is there. His name is Madana-mohana. If you try to transfer your love from sense to Kṛṣṇa, then you see the result. Immediately you'll find. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau [Brs. 1.2.234]. So this false endeavor, that "I want to be master of all I survey," "I am the monarch of all I survey," this attitude should be given up. Every one of us is constitutionally servant. Now, at the present moment, we are servant of the senses. Now, this servitorship should be changed to Kṛṣṇa only. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ. And as soon as you change your servitorship to Kṛṣṇa, then gradually, as you become sincere, so Kṛṣṇa reveals to you, and reciprocation of service between Kṛṣṇa and yourself will be so nice. Either you love Him as friend, or master, or lover, or... There are so many items. Any way you can try to love Him and see how much you are satisfied. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Please try to understand. It is...
Now in your country these boys are trying to preach this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. So my humble request to you all is to try to understand this sublime benediction of life. Simply by chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, you'll gradually develop a transcendental loving attitude for Kṛṣṇa. And as soon as you begin to love Kṛṣṇa, your all troubles... That means you will feel complete satisfaction. Trouble or distress is of the mind. One man is getting $6000 a month; one man is getting $200 a month. But I have seen one gentleman in Calcutta, he was drawing 6,000; he committed suicide. Committed suicide. Why? That money could not give him satisfaction. He was trying to have something else. So this material atmosphere, by earning great amount of money, will never give you satisfaction, because every one of us is the servant of the senses. This platform of service of the senses should be transferred to the platform of service to Kṛṣṇa, and then you will find all problems solved.
Thank you very much. (devotees offer obeisances) Any question?
Devotee: Prabhupāda, a picture of Kṛṣṇa is absolute, right? That is Kṛṣṇa. Is the picture of a pure devotee absolute in the same way?
Prabhupāda: Picture of devotee?
Devotee: A pure devotee.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Devotee: It's absolute in the same way that a picture...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Devotee: Let's say a picture of Prahlāda Mahārāja and Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva is also... Prahlāda is there as much as Lord Nṛsiṁhadeva is.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The Lord and the devotee, they are on the same status. Every one of them. Lord, His name, His form, His quality, His associates, His paraphernalia. Everything, they are absolute. Nāma guṇa rūpa līlā pari... And pastimes. Just like we are hearing about Kṛṣṇa, so this is nondifferent from Kṛṣṇa. When there is chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, this Hare Kṛṣṇa, this vibration, is not different from Kṛṣṇa. Everything is absolute. Therefore pure devotee of Kṛṣṇa is nondifferent from Kṛṣṇa. This is simultaneously one and different. Acintya-bhedābheda-tattva. This philosophy has to be understood, that Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Person energetic, and everything, what we see, what we experience, they are all different energies of Kṛṣṇa. And the energy and the energetic cannot be separated. Therefore they are all on the absolute platform. Simply when it is covered by māyā or ignorance, it is different. That's all.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, what if we know we should serve and we want to serve, but the service is so bad.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Never think that service is perfect. That will keep you in the perfect stage. Yes. We should always think that our service is not complete. Yes. That is very nice. Just like Caitanya Mahāprabhu taught us that... He said that "My dear friends, please take it from Me that I have not a pinch of faith in Kṛṣṇa. If you say that why I am crying, the answer is that just to make a show that I am great devotee. Actually, I have not a pinch of love for Kṛṣṇa. This crying is simply My show, makeshow." "Why You are saying so?" "Now, the thing is that I am still living without seeing Kṛṣṇa. That means I have no love for Kṛṣṇa. I am still living. I should have died long ago without seeing Kṛṣṇa." So we should think like that. That is the example. However perfect you may be in serving Kṛṣṇa, you should always know that... Kṛṣṇa is unlimited, so your service cannot reach Him perfectly. It will ever remain imperfect because we are limited. But Kṛṣṇa is so kind. If you offer a little service sincerely, He accepts. That is the beauty of Kṛṣṇa. Svalpam apy asya dharmasya trāyate mahato bhayāt. And if Kṛṣṇa accepts a little service from you, then your life is glorious. So it is not possible to love Kṛṣṇa perfectly, to render service to Kṛṣṇa, because He is unlimited. There is a process, worshiping the Ganges in India. The Ganges River is considered sacred river. So they worship Ganges, the river Ganges, by taking water from the Ganges and offering it. Suppose in a small pot like this, either pot or your handful, you take some water from the Ganges and with your devotion and mantra you offer to the Ganges water. So you take a glass of water from the Ganges and offer it to the Ganges, what is there, gain and profit or loss or gain for the Ganges? If you take a glass of water from the Ganges and again offer it, so what is the gain and profit of Ganges? But your process, your faith, your love for mother Ganges, "Mother Ganges, I offer you this little water," that is accepted. Similarly, what we have got to offer Kṛṣṇa? Everything belongs to Kṛṣṇa. Now we have offered these fruits. Do the fruits belong to us? Who has produced these fruits? Have I produced? Is there any brain of the human being who can produce fruits, grains, milk? They're very great scientist. Now let them produce. The cow is eating grass and delivering you milk. So now, by scientific process, why don't you transform grass into milk? Still the rascals will not agree that there is God. You see? They have become so rascal: "Science." And what is your science, nonsense? You see the cows are eating grass and delivering you milk. Why don't you give to your wife and take milk? Why do you purchase? But if you offer this grass to a human being, she will die. So everything, the law of Kṛṣṇa, or law of God, is working, and still they say that "God is dead. There is no God. I am God." You do this like that. They have become so rascals and fools. Why they do not come to this meeting? "Oh, the Swamijī is speaking of God, old things. (laughter) Let us discover something new." You see? And if somebody speaks all nonsense, then "Oh, he's..." He spoke four hours on zero. Just see. Somebody in Montreal, one gentleman, "Swamijī, he is so wonderful, he spoke four hours on zero." They're such a fool that four hours he wanted to hear on zero. You see? (laughter) What is the value of zero? And you waste your time, four hours? After all, it is zero. So people want this. People want this. If we say simple things—"God is great. You are the servant, eternal servant. You have no power. You are always dependent on God. Just turn your servitorship to God, you'll be happy"—"Oh, this is not very nice." So they want to be cheated. Therefore so many cheaters come and cheat and go away, that's all. The people want to be cheated. They don't want simple things. Yes.
Madhudviṣa: Prabhupāda, what was exactly predicted by Lord Caitanya when He predicted the Golden Age of Kali, the age in the Age of Kali when people would be chanting the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra?
Prabhupāda: Yes. People... Just like we are now preaching Hare Kṛṣṇa. In your country there was no such preaching. So we have sent our students in Europe, Germany, London—you are also spreading. In this way it is only, we are, our activities since 1966 practically. We have registered the association in 1966, and this is '68. So gradually we are spreading. And of course, I am old man. I may die. If you have taken up this formula very nicely, then you will go on preaching, and it may be spread all over the world. Very simple thing. Simply we require a little intelligence. That's all. So any intelligent man will appreciate. But if anyone wants to be cheated, then how he can be saved if one willingly wants to be cheated? Then it is very difficult to convince him. But those who are open-hearted, they will certainly accept this nice movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Yes.
Jaya-gopāla: When we engage inferior energy, internal energy, in the service of Kṛṣṇa, it becomes spiritualized, doesn't it?
Prabhupāda: No. When you apply your energy, it is no more material; it is spiritual. Just like when the copper wire is in touch with electricity, it is no more copper; it is electric. So service to Kṛṣṇa means as soon as you dovetail yourself in the service of Kṛṣṇa, you are not different from Kṛṣṇa. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: māṁ ca 'vyabhicāreṇa bhakti-yogena yaḥ sevate. This very word, sevate. Sa guṇān samatītyaitān brahma-bhūyāya kalpate [Bg. 14.26]. "Anyone who seriously engages himself in My service, immediately he becomes transcendental to the material qualities and he's on the platform of Brahman." Brahma-bhūyāya kalpate. So when you apply your energy in the service of Kṛṣṇa, you do not think that your material energy is there. No. Just like these fruits. These fruits, one may think, "What is this prasāda? This fruit has been purchased, we also eat fruit at home, and this is prasāda?" No. Because it is offered to Kṛṣṇa, immediately it is no more material. The result? You eat Kṛṣṇa prasāda and see how you are making progress in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Just if the physician gives you some medicine and if you get yourself cured, that is the effect of medicine. Another example is that how the material things become spiritual. A very nice example. Just like you have taken a large quantity of milk. So there is some disorder in your bowels. You go to a physician. At least, according to Vedic system of..., they will offer you a preparation which is called yogurt. That is milk preparation. That yogurt with little medicine will cure. Now your disease was caused by milk, and it is cured by milk also. Why? It is directed by the physician. Similarly everything. In the higher sense there is no existence of matter; it is only illusion. Just like this morning I was giving the instance of the sun and the fog. The fog was there; the sun could not be seen. The foolish person will say that "There is no sun. It is simply fog." But intelligent person will say that "Sun is there, but the fog has covered our eyes. We cannot see the sun." Similarly, actually, everything being energy of Kṛṣṇa, there is nothing material. Simply our, this mentality that we want to lord it over, that is false, illusion. That is covering our relationship with Kṛṣṇa. So that you will gradually understand. Sevonmukhe hi jihvādau svayam eva sphuraty adaḥ [Brs. 1.2.234]. As you make progress in the service attitude, everything will become cleared, how your energy has become spiritualized.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Is Māyā a pure devotee? Māyā.
Prabhupāda: Pure devotees, no, he's not under māyā.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: No, no. Is Māyā, Māyādevī, a pure devotee?
Prabhupāda: Yes, certainly. The police force, are they not honest servant of the government? Does it mean the police force tortures you; therefore they're rejected from the government servant? Their task is thankless task, that's all. Similarly, Māyā is also serving Kṛṣṇa, but there is no thanks. That is the difference. She has taken a thankless task to punish persons who are godless, that's all. So Māyā as it is, it is not that she is out of touch of Kṛṣṇa. Vaiṣṇavī. In the Caṇḍī, in the book of Māyā, it is state that "Vaiṣṇavī." The Māyā is described as Vaiṣṇavī. Just like pure devotee is called Vaiṣṇava, she is also described there as Vaiṣṇavī.
Viṣṇujana: How do you make everything that you say so simple to understand?
Prabhupāda: Because the whole philosophy is so simple. God is great; you are not great. Don't claim that you are God. Don't claim that there is no God. There is God, and He is great, and you are small. Then what is your position? You have to serve Kṛṣṇa. This is simple truth. So that rebellious attitude is called māyā. Anyone who is declaring that "There is no God. God is dead. I am God, you are God," they're all under the spell of māyā. Piśācī pāile yena mati-cchanna haya. Just like when a man is ghost-haunted, he speaks all kinds of nonsense. So all these persons are haunted by māyā, and therefore they are saying, "God is dead. I am God. Why you are searching God everywhere? There are so many Gods loitering in the street." They're all ghost-haunted, deranged. So we have to cure them by this transcendental vibration, Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is the curing process only. Simply let them hear and they'll gradually be cured. Just a man who is sleeping very sound, you cry by the side of his ear and he awakes. So this is the mantra to awake the sleeping human society. Uttiṣṭha uttiṣṭhata jāgrata prāpya varān nibodhata. The Vedas says, "O human race, please get up. Don't sleep any more. You have got this opportunity of human body. Utilize it. Get yourself out of the clutches of māyā." This is the declaration of Vedas. So you are doing that job. Hare Kṛṣṇa, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and they'll be cured (?).
Devotees: Hare Kṛṣṇa!
Prabhupāda: Yes?
Jaya-gopāla: Is past, present and future, in the material sense, a perverted reflection of the same...
Prabhupāda: Yes, past, future, present is according to the different kinds of relativity. That is a scientific proof. Professor Einstein has proved it. Just like your past is not past of Brahmā. Your present is not the present of an ant. So past, present, future-time is eternal. It is according to the different dimension of body relativity. Time is eternal. Just like a small ant. In twenty-four hours he has twenty-four times past, present and future. In the sputnik, in the Russian sputnik, circumambulated round this earth in one hour, twenty-five minutes, or something like that. They, I mean to say, went round the earth for twenty-five times. That means within one hour, twenty-five minutes, the sputnik man saw twenty-five times day and night. So in the higher atmosphere the past end present is different. So this past, present, future is relative according to your body, according to circumstances. Actually, there is no past, present, future. Everything is eternal. You are eternal, nityo śāśvato 'yaṁ na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. You do not die. Therefore... The people do not know that I am eternal. What is my eternal engagement? What is my eternal life? They're simply captivated on the spot life: "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am this," "I am that." That's all. This is ignorance. So one has to search out this eternal engagement with Kṛṣṇa. Then he'll be happy. Thank you. (devotees offer obeisances) Chant, Upendra, chant. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Chant. (kīrtana) (end)

Seattle, September 30, 1968
Prabhupāda: You have sold 120 copies?
Prabhupāda: Now you have to sell 120 copies at least daily. Thank you. [break]
Girl: Would you like the window open a little?
Madhudviṣa: Do you want the window to be open?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. (devotees respond) (sings) Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. (Prabhupāda chants Brahma-saṁhitā verses, devotees respond) So our program is to worship with love and devotion Govinda, the original person. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are teaching people to love Kṛṣṇa, that's all. Our program is to love, to place your love in the proper place. That is our program. Everyone wants to love, but he is being frustrated on account of his love being misplaced. People do not understand it. They are being taught, "First of all, you love your body." Then little extended, "You love your father and mother." Then "Love your brother and sister." Then "Love your society, love your country, love the whole human society, humanity." But all this extended love, so-called love, will not give you satisfaction unless you reach to the point to love Kṛṣṇa. Then you'll be satisfied. Just like if you throw a stone on some reservoir of water, on a lake, there immediately begins a circle. The circle expands, and expanding, expanding, expanding, when the circle touches the shore, it stops. Unless the circle reaches the bank or the shore of the reservoir of the water, it goes on increasing. So we have to increase. Increase. The increase means there are two ways. If you practice, "I love my society, I love my country, I love my human nation," then "Living entities," go on... But if you directly touch Kṛṣṇa, then everything is there. It is so nice. Because Kṛṣṇa means all-attractive, includes everything. Why everything? Because Kṛṣṇa is the center. Just like in a family, if you love your father, then you love your brothers, sisters, the servant of your father, the home of your father, the wife of your father, namely, your mother, everyone. The central point is father. This is crude example. Similarly, if you love Kṛṣṇa, then your love will be expanded everywhere. Another example, just like if you love a tree, the leaves, the flowers, the branches, the trunks, the twigs, everything. You simply pour water on the root, then your loving affairs for the tree will automatically serve. If you love your countrymen, if you want to see that your countryman becomes educated, advanced economically and mentally, physically, then what you'll do? You pay tax to the government. You don't hide your income tax. You simply pay tax to the central government and it will be distributed to the educational department, to the defense department, to the hygienic department, everywhere. Therefore... These are crude examples, but actually, if you want to love everything, then you try to love Kṛṣṇa. You'll not be frustrated because that is complete. When your love is complete, then you will not be frustrated. Just like you have got complete feeding. If you are satisfied with food completely, then you say, "I am satisfied. I don't want any more."
So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is very simple. Very simple. It is inaugurated by Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu especially, although it is very old, in the Vedic scripture, but still, taking from the historical point of view, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is since Lord Kṛṣṇa appeared on the surface of this planet five thousand years ago, and later on, Lord Caitanya, five hundred years ago, He expanded that movement, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. His mission, Lord Caitanya's mission, is ārādhyo bhagavān vrajeśa-tanayaḥ. If you want to love or if you want to be subordinate... Everyone is subordinate. This is false. Everyone wants to be independent, but nobody is independent. Everyone is subordinate. Nobody can say that "I am independent." Can you say, any one of you, that you are independent? Is there anybody? No. Everyone is subordinate willingly. Not by force everyone becomes subordinate. A girl says a boy, "I want to become your subordinate," willingly. Similarly a boy says to a girl, "I want to be your subordinate." Why? That is my nature. I want to be subordinate because my nature is to be subordinate. But I do not know. I prefer, I reject this subordination; I accept another subordination. But subordination is there. Just like a worker. He works here. He finds some better wages another place, he goes there. But that does not means he becomes independent. He is subordinate. So Lord Caitanya teaches that if you want to be subordinate or if you want to worship somebody... Who worships somebody? Unless you feel somebody is greater than you, why shall you worship? I worship my boss because I think that he is greater than me. He gives me wages, salary, monthly six hundred dollars. Therefore I must worship him, I must please him.
So Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that you become a subordinate of Kṛṣṇa. Ārādhyo bhagavān vrajeśa-tanayaḥ. If you want to worship, worship Kṛṣṇa. And next, tad-dhāmaṁ vṛndāvanam. If you want to worship somebody, then love Kṛṣṇa or worship Kṛṣṇa, or His place Vṛndāvana. Because everyone wants to love some place. That is now nationalism—some country. Somebody says, "I love this American land." Somebody says, "I love this Chinese land." Somebody says, "I love the Russian land." So everyone wants to love some land. Bhauma ijya-dhīḥ. Bhauma ijya-dhīḥ. People are naturally inclined to love some material land. Generally, where he is born he tries to love. Caitanya Mahāprabhu said that "Because you are inclined to love some person, you love Kṛṣṇa. Because you want to love some land, you love Vṛndāvana." Ārādhyo bhagavān vrajeśa-tanayas tad-dhāma vṛndāvanam. But if somebody says, "How to love Kṛṣṇa? I cannot see Kṛṣṇa. How to love Kṛṣṇa?" then Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, ramyā kācid upāsanā vrajavadhū-vargeṇa kalpitā. If you want to know the process of worshiping Kṛṣṇa, or loving Kṛṣṇa, just try to follow the footprints of the gopīs. Gopīs. The gopīs, their love, the highest perfectional love. Ramyā kācid upāsanā. There are different kinds of love or worship in the world. The beginning is, "O God, give us our daily bread." This is beginning. When we are, I mean to say, taught to love God, we are instructed that "You go to temple, go to church, and pray to God for your necessities, for your grievances." That is the beginning. But that is not pure love. Pure love, perfection of pure love, can be found amongst the gopīs. That is the example.
How? How they love Kṛṣṇa? They love Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa went to... Kṛṣṇa was a cowherd's boy, and with His friends, other cowherd's boy, He used to go with His cows in the pasturing ground the whole day. That was the system. Because people at that time were satisfied with land and cows, that's all. That is the means of solution of all economic problems. They were not industrial, they were not servant of anyone. Simply get production from the land and take milk from the cows, the whole food problem solved. So Kṛṣṇa used to go to the pasturing ground, and the gopīs at home... They were girls or women. They... Women or girls were not allowed to work. That is the Vedic system. They should keep at home, and they should be given protection by the father, by the husband, or elderly sons. They were not meant for going out. So they kept themselves at home. But Kṛṣṇa was, say, miles away in the pasturing ground, and the gopīs at home thinking, "Oh, Kṛṣṇa's feet is so soft. Now He's walking on the rough grounds. The particles of stones are pricking His sole. So He must be feeling some pain." In this way thinking, they used to cry. Just see. Kṛṣṇa is miles away, and what Kṛṣṇa is feeling, they are simply thinking of that feeling: "Kṛṣṇa may be feeling like that." This is love. This is love. They are not asking Kṛṣṇa, "My dear Kṛṣṇa, what You have brought from Your pasturing ground? How is Your pocket? Let me see." No. Simply thinking of Kṛṣṇa, how Kṛṣṇa will be satisfied. They used to dress themselves because..., and go before Kṛṣṇa with nice dress, "Oh, He'll be happy to see." Generally, a boy or a man becomes happy to see his lover or wife nicely dressed. That is... Therefore it is the nature of the woman to dress nice. And according to Vedic system, a woman should dress very nicely just to satisfy her husband. That is the Vedic system. If her husband is not at home, then she should not dress nicely. There are injunctions. Proṣita bhartṛkā. There are different dresses of woman. By seeing the dress one will understand what she is. One can understand by seeing the dress that she is unmarried girl. One can see simply by the dress that she is married wife. One can see by the dress that she is widow. One can see by the dress that she is prostitute. So dress is so important. So proṣita bhartṛkā. So we are not going to discuss about the social. We are discussing about love affairs of Kṛṣṇa. So gopīs... Kṛṣṇa and gopīs, the relationship was so intimate and so unalloyed that Kṛṣṇa Himself admitted, "My dear gopīs, it is not in My power to repay you about your loving affairs." Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He became bankrupt, that "My dear gopīs, it is not possible for Me to repay your debts which you have created by loving Me." So that is the highest perfection of love. Ramyā kācid upāsanā vrajavadhū.
I'm just describing the mission of Lord Caitanya. He is giving us instruction, His mission, that the only lovable object is Kṛṣṇa and His land Vṛndāvana. And the process of loving Him is the vivid example, the gopīs. Nobody can reach. There are different stages of devotees, and gopīs are supposed to be on the highest platform. And amongst the gopīs, the supreme is Rādhārāṇī. Therefore nobody can surpass the love of Rādhārāṇī. Ramyā kācid upāsanā vrajavadhū-vargeṇa kalpitā, śrīmad-bhāgavatam amalaṁ purāṇam. Now to learn this, all this science of loving God, there must be some book, some authoritative literature. Yes. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, śrīmad-bhāgavatam amalaṁ purāṇam. The Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, it is spotless description of understanding how to love God. There is no other description. From the beginning it is teaching how to love God. Those who have studied Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, the first verse in the First Canto is janmādy asya yataḥ, satyaṁ paraṁ dhīmahi [SB 1.1.1]. The beginning is that "I am offering my unalloyed devotion unto the Supreme, from whom everything has emanated." Janmādy asya yataḥ. So it is a... You know, it is a great description. So Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. If you want to learn how to love God, or Kṛṣṇa, then study Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And to understand Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, the preliminary study is Bhagavad-gītā. So study Bhagavad-gītā to understand the real nature or identification of God and yourself and your relationship, and then, when you are little conversant, when you are prepared, that "Yes, Kṛṣṇa is the only lovable object," then next book you take, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. And you go on. Just like Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, is entrance. Just like students, they pass their school examination then enters into the college. So you pass your school examination, how to love God, by studying Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. Then study Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and... That is graduate study. And when you are still farther advanced, post-graduate, then study Teachings of Lord Caitanya.
So there is no difficulty. The fact is that we have to learn how to love Kṛṣṇa. So direction is there and method is there, and we are trying to serve you as far as possible. We are sending our boys on the streets and the town to invite you. And if you kindly take up this opportunity, then your life will be successful. Premā pum-artho mahān. Because this human form of life is meant for developing love for God. Because in all other life we have loved, we have loved. We have loved our children, we have loved our wife, we have loved our nest in the bird's life, in the beast's life. There is love. There is no necessity of teaching a bird or beast how to love the children. There is no necessity, because that is natural. To love your home, to love your country, to love your husband, to love your children, to love your wife, and so on, you go on, all this love, more or less they are all in the animal kingdom also. But that sort of love will not give you happiness. You'll be frustrated because this body is temporary. Therefore all these loving affairs are also temporary and they are not pure. They are simply a perverted reflection of the pure love that is existing between you and Kṛṣṇa. So if you want really peace, if you really want satisfaction, if you don't want to be confused, then try to love Kṛṣṇa. This is the plain program. Then your life will be successful. The Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not something manufactured to mislead and bluff the people. It is a most authorized movement. Vedic literature, the Bhagavad-gītā, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, Vedānta-sūtra, Purāṇas, and many, many great saintly persons adopted this means. And the vivid example is Lord Caitanya. You see His picture, He is in the dancing mood. So you have to learn this art, then our life will be successful. You haven't got to practice anything artificial and speculating and bother your brain and... You have the instinct for loving others. That is instinctive, natural. Simply we are misplacing love and therefore we are frustrated. Frustrated. Confused. So if you don't want to be confused, if you don't want to be frustrated, then try to love Kṛṣṇa, and you'll feel yourself how you are making progress in peacefulness, in happiness, in everything that you want.
Thank you very much. Any question?
Madhudviṣa: Prabhupāda? Is it all right for us to read the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam after we've received your Bhagavad-gītā when it comes out? Or should we just completely devote all our time to studying the Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, and then we..., and then progress from there, or should we continue our study of the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam?
Prabhupāda: No. You should read Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. This is only a preliminary division. In the spiritual platform, everything is absolute. If you read Bhagavad-gītā, you'll find the same proposition as in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. It is not that because you are studying Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam that you haven't got to study Bhagavad-gītā. It is not like that. You read these literatures and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, follow the rules and regulations and live happily. Our program is very happy program. We chant, we dance, we eat Kṛṣṇa prasādam, we paint nice pictures of Kṛṣṇa and see them nicely decorated, and we read philosophy. So what you want more? (laughs)
Jāhnavā: How and why did we lose our awareness of our true love for Kṛṣṇa in the beginning?
Prabhupāda: Hm?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: How and why... How and why did we lose our love for Kṛṣṇa in the beginning?
Jāhnavā: No, not the love. Just the awareness of the love, of our true love for Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Our awareness is there. You love somebody. But you are meant to love Kṛṣṇa, that you have forgotten. So forgetfulness is also our nature. Sometimes we forget. And especially because we are very small, minute, therefore even I cannot remember exactly what I was doing last night at this time. So forgetfulness is not unnatural for us. And again, if somebody revives our memory, to accept that, that is also not unnatural. So our loving object is Kṛṣṇa. Somehow or other, we have forgotten Him. We don't trace the history when we forgot. That is useless labor. But we have forgotten, that is a fact. Now revive it. Here is reminder. So take opportunity. Don't try to history why you have forgotten and what was the date of my forgetfulness. Even if you know, what is the use? You have forgotten. Take it. Just like if you go to a physician, he'll never ask you how you got this disease, what is the history of this disease, at what date, at what time you were infected.
No. He simply feels your pulse and sees that you have got a disease and he gives you the medicine: "Yes. You take it." Similarly, we are suffering. That is a fact. Nobody can deny. Why you are suffering? Forgetting Kṛṣṇa. That's all. Now you revive your memory about Kṛṣṇa, you become happy. That's all. Very simple thing. Now don't try to find out the history when you forgot. You have forgotten, that is a fact, because you are suffering. Now here is an opportunity, Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Revive your memory, your love for Kṛṣṇa. Simple thing. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, dance, and take Kṛṣṇa prasāda. And if you are not educated, you are illiterate, hear. Just you have got natural gift, ear. You have got natural tongue. So you can chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and you can hear Bhagavad-gītā or Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam from persons who are in the knowledge. So there is no impediment. No impediment. It does not require any prequalification. Simply you have to use whatever asset you have got. That's all. You must agree. That is wanted. "Yes, I shall take to Kṛṣṇa consciousness." That depends on you because you are independent. If you disagree, "No. Why shall I take to Kṛṣṇa?" nobody can give you. But if you agree, it is here, very easy. Take it.
Guest: Maybe you've already answered this. I'm not sure. I didn't hear. But I have always been taught since I was a little kid to love God and then I will love everything. Is God Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Yes. You have got any other God? Any other God than Kṛṣṇa?
Guest: Ah, what was the question again? Oh, no, no...
Prabhupāda: Just try to understand what is God.
Guest: I didn't know that God was Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: No, everything has got definition. Just like if I say "This is watch." So it has a definition. Watch means it is round and there is a white dial and two hands, there are so many figures indicating time. Like that, I can give you some description. So anything, whatever you see or experience or try to understand, there must be some definition. So when you speak of God, do you know what is the definition of God?
Guest: Yes. I thought He was love.
Prabhupāda: Love is not definition; love is the action. Yes, love. I love God. Love is my activity. But there must be some definition of God. That also you know. You now forget. Now, in one word, they say "God is great." So how do you test one's greatness? Next point. If you say that "This man is very great," now there must be an understanding how you estimate that he is great. These are different stages of understanding. So how do you understand that God is great? What is your calculation, that from, on this point, God is great? Just like in your Bible it is said, "God said 'Let there be creation,' and there was creation." Is it not? Is it not statement? So here is greatness. He simply said, "Let there be creation," and there was creation. Can you do that? Suppose you are very nice carpenter. Can you say, "Let there be a chair," and at once there is a chair? Is it possible? Suppose you are manufacturer of this watch. Can you say that "I say, let there be watch," and there is immediately watch? That is not possible. Therefore God's name is satya-saṅkalpa. Satya-saṅkalpa. Satya-saṅkalpa means whatever He thinks, immediately it is present. Not only God, but those who have attained yogic perfection, they cannot desire like God, but almost. Wonderful things... A yogi, if he has got perfection, if he desires something, that "I want this," immediately it is there. This is called satya-saṅkalpa. In this way, there are many examples. That is greatness. What I... Just like the modern scientists, they are trying to fly some space machine in the good speed so that they can go to the moon planet. So many scientists of America, Russia, and other countries, they are trying. But they cannot. Their sputnik is coming back. But just see God's power. Millions of planets are floating just like swabs. This is greatness. So any nonsense, if he says that "I am God," he's a rascal. God is great. You cannot compare yourself with God. There is no comparison. But the rascaldom is going on. "Everyone is God. I am God, you are God"—then he's dog. You show the power of God, then you say. First deserve, then desire. What power we have got? We're always dependent. So God is great, and we are dependent on God. Therefore natural conclusion is that we have to serve God. This is the whole comment.(?) Serving means with love. Unless... Now just like these boys, my disciples, they are serving me. Whatever I say, they are immediately executing. Why? I am an Indian, I am a foreigner. Two or three years ago I was not known to them, nor they were known to me. Why they are doing that? Because it is love. Serving means developing love. So unless you develop your love for God you cannot serve Him. Anywhere. Whenever you give some service, it is based on love. Just like mother giving service to the helpless child. Why? Love. So similarly, our life will be perfect when our love is perfect with the perfect Supreme Personality of Godhead. Then it is all right. You have to learn this. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness: in a relationship with Kṛṣṇa. Just like I am loving my disciples, my disciples are loving me. Why? What is the medium? Kṛṣṇa. Yes?
Woman: Is Rāma synonymous with Jesus?
Devotee: "Is Rāma synonymous, the same as Jesus."
Prabhupāda: Synonymous..., not exactly synonymous, but identical. Synonymous cannot be said, identical.
Woman: Oh, identical.
Prabhupāda: Yes. In the absolute platform everything is identical. In the relative world also. Just like anything you take, it is material. So material identity. Similarly, in the spiritual world everything is spiritual. So in the spiritual world God and God's son or God's friend or God's lover, anyone is the... They're in the same platform, spiritual. Therefore they are identical.
Woman: Doesn't Rāma refer to a man that was born..., I'm not..., in India or somewhere, and Christ was born in Europe? Two different men, but still the same, the same...
Prabhupāda: Yes. The sun is every day born in India, born in Europe, born in America. Does it mean that he's Indian or American or Chinese?
Woman: No, that's not what I mean.
Prabhupāda: Then? Therefore it is like that. When... This is our limited knowledge. We have been taught in that way, that God is great. Just like the sun is great; therefore even the sun is seen in India or in America or China, anywhere, any part of the world, any part of the universe, the sun is one. Nobody can say, "Oh, it is American sun" or "It is Indian sun." So either Jesus Christ or Rāma or Kṛṣṇa, whoever comes from the kingdom of God, they are the same. There is no difference. But the difference is... Just like in your country temperature of sun is less, and in a tropical country the temperature of the sun is very great. Does it mean the sun's temperature is changed? It is according to the reception. The atmosphere of this country is so surcharged that you cannot receive the sunshine properly, but the sunshine distributes its shining everywhere the same. Similarly, according to the country, according to the circumstances, according to the planet, God is manifested differently, but He is not different. You are wrapping your body with some winter clothes. Same time, telegraph in India, oh, they are running fan. Why the temperature is different? Therefore whatever Lord Jesus Christ says or whatever Kṛṣṇa says or what Rāma says, that is in terms of the place, in terms of the circumstances, atmosphere, persons, hearer. There is different. One thing which I try to convince a child is not possible to teach the same thing to his father. Or a child cannot understand what is sex life, but a young man can understand. The same child, when he'll be grown up, he'll know. So you do not think that everyone can understand everything. So Bible is spoken under certain circumstances; Bhagavad-gītā is spoken under certain circumstances. It is the difference of the circumstances. Otherwise, the principle is the same. In the Bible also it is said, "Love God," and Bhagavad-gītā also says, "Love God." There is no difference.
Upendra: Prabhupāda, what is the nature of anger? How is anger...
Prabhupāda: Anger means lust. When you are lusty and your lust is not fulfilled, you become angry. That's all. It is another feature of the lust. Kāma eṣa krodha eṣa rajo-guṇa-samudbhavaḥ. When you are too much influenced with the modes of passion, you become lusty. And when your lust is not fulfilled, then you are angry, next stage. And next stage is that there is bewilderment. And then next stage is praṇaśyati, then you are lost. Therefore one has to control this lust and anger. This controlling means you have to put yourself in the modes of goodness, not in the modes of passion. There are three modes of material nature: modes of ignorance, modes of passion and modes of goodness. Therefore if anyone wants to know the science of God, then he has to keep himself on the modes of goodness. Otherwise he cannot. Therefore we are teaching our students that "You don't do this, you don't do this, you don't do this, you don't do this," because he has to keep himself on the modes of goodness. Otherwise he'll not be able to understand. Kṛṣṇa consciousness cannot be understood on the platform of ignorance and passion. The whole world is under the influence of ignorance and passion. But this method is so simple that if you simply follow the four principles of restriction and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, you are immediately surpassing all the modes of material nature. So the anger is on the platform of passion. Yes?
Young man: Can you explain subordination again?
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Explain subordination again.
Prabhupāda: Subordination, it is simple. You are subordinate. You don't understand what is subordination? Is it very difficult? Are you not subordinate to somebody?
Young man: Well, yes, I suppose you could say I was.
Prabhupāda: Yes. You must. Everyone. Everyone must be subordinate, in subordination.
Young man: Yes, in a spiritual sense though, I don't feel subordinate to...
Prabhupāda: First of all you understand what is spiritual life, then... In the spiritual sense also you are subordinate because your nature is subordination. Spiritual, what do you mean by spiritual and material?
Young man: Well, like, my body is in a particular place and time and all of these, caste (?). If I have a job then I'm subordinate to my boss, but the real, my whole being, my real being, my inner being doesn't... I don't think that I am subordinate to my boss. I think that we would be more or less equal. In a temporary sense, we are...
Prabhupāda: Yes. This consciousness is very nice, that you are feeling dissatisfaction being subordinate to your boss. Is that not?
Young man: No, that's not right.
Prabhupāda: Then?
Young man: I don't especially...
Prabhupāda: Anyone.
Young man: I don't think that... Speaking about this specific incident, it isn't necessarily true that I would feel jealous of this guy because he was over me. But I just feel as beings we are more or less all equal. I mean, you know, it's kind of a philosophy that I have. I don't feel that I have to bow down to anybody and I don't feel anybody should bow down to me.
Prabhupāda: Why? Why? Why do not bow down? Why?
Young man: Because I don't feel that I owe him anything or he owes me anything.
Prabhupāda: So that is the disease. We are forced to bow down and we think that "I don't like to bow down." This is the disease.
Young man: He didn't force me to bow down.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Young man: He isn't forcing me to do anything. I'm just kind of there and he's kind of there.
Prabhupāda: No. Just try to understand. It is a very nice question. You say that "I do not want to bow down." Is it not?
Young man: That's basically true, yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Why?
Young man: Because I don't feel like I'm inferior to...
Prabhupāda: That is the disease. You have diagnosed your own disease. That is the disease of materialism. Everyone is thinking that "I want to be master. I don't wish to bow down myself." Everyone is thinking, not only yourself. Just try...
Young man: Uh...
Prabhupāda: Let me finish this. This is the disease, material disease. First of all try to understand. It is not your disease or my disease. Everyone's disease is this, that "Why shall I bow down? Why shall I become subordinate?" But nature is forcing me to become subordinate. Now who wants to meet death? Why people are dying? Can you answer this?
Young man: Why are people dying?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Nobody wants to die.
Young man: I thought it was a biological...
Prabhupāda: Just try to understand. Who is here... That means biological force. You are subordinate to biology. Then why do you say that you are independent?
Young man: Well, I feel that I'm...
Prabhupāda: You are feeling wrongly. That is my point. That is your disease.
Young man: I'm feeling lonely?
Prabhupāda: Yes, wrongly.
Young man: Wrongly?
Prabhupāda: Yes. You are subordinate. You must have to bow down. When death is there, you cannot say, "Oh, I don't obey you." Therefore you are subordinate.
Young man: I am subordinate to God, yes.
Prabhupāda: No, no, don't... Forget God. Just now we are speaking common sense.
Young man: Kṛṣṇa... I don't...
Prabhupāda: No. Don't speak of Kṛṣṇa. That is far away. You just try to understand that you do not want to die, why you are forced to death?
Young man: Why am I forced to death?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Because you are subordinate.
Young man: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Then you understand your position, that you are subordinate. You cannot declare that "I am free. I am not subordinate." If you are wishing that "I don't wish to be subordinate, don't wish to bow down," that is your disease.
Young man: What do you want me to... What...
Prabhupāda: No, first of all try to understand your disease. Then we shall diagnose your medicine.
Young man: I'm feeling wrongly, okay, but... But who do I or what... What exactly do I bow down to... I mean...
Prabhupāda: You are bowing down to everyone. You are bowing down to death, you are bowing down to disease, you are bowing down to old age. You are bowing down to so many things. You are forced. And still you are thinking that "I cannot bow down. I don't like." Because you are saying "I don't like," therefore you are being forced. You have to bow down. Why you forget your position? That is our disease. Therefore the next process is that "I am being forced to bow down." Now we have to find out "Where I shall be happy even by bowing down?" That is Kṛṣṇa. Your bowing down will not be stopped, because you are meant for that. But if you bow down to Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's representative, you become happy. Test this. You have to bow down. If you don't bow down to Kṛṣṇa and His representative, then you will be forced to bow down something else, māyā. That is your position. You cannot be free at any moment. But you'll feel... Just like a child is twenty-four hours bowing down to his parents. He's happy. He's happy. Mother says, "My dear child, please come down, sit down here." "Yes." He's happy. This is the nature. Simply you have to seek out where you have to bow down, that's all. That is Kṛṣṇa. You cannot stop your bowing down, but you have to see where you have to bow down. That's all. If you artificially think that "I'm not going to bow down anyone. I am independent," then you suffer. Simply you have to seek out the proper place where you have to bow down. That's all. All right. Chant. Give them prasādam. They are going. (kīrtana) (end)

Seattle, October 2, 1968
Prabhupāda: You have got fan? Fan, fan. (sings) Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. (devotees respond) So our program is to worship the original Supreme Personality of Godhead, Govinda. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, find out who is the original person. Naturally, everyone is anxious to find out the original person of a family, original person of a society, original person of a nation, original person of humanity... You go on, searching. But if you can find out the original person from whom everything has come out, that is Brahman. Janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. The Vedānta-sūtra says Brahman, the Absolute Truth, is that from whom everything has emanated. Very simple description. What is God, what is the Absolute Truth, very simple definition—the original person.
So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to approach the original person. The original person is not dead, because everything emanates from the original person, so everything is working very nicely. The sun is rising, the moon is rising, the seasons are changing, so..., there is night, there is day, just in the order. So the function of the body of the original person is going on nicely. How you can say that God is dead? Just like in your body, when the physician finds by feeling your pulse that the heart beating is going on nicely, he does not declare that "This man is dead." He says, "Yes, he is alive." Similarly, if you are intelligent enough, you can feel the pulse of the universal body—and it is going on nicely. So how you can say God is dead? God is never dead. It is rascal's version that God is dead—unintelligent persons, persons who have no sense how to feel something dead or alive. One who has got the sense to feel how a thing is dead or alive, to understand, he'll never say God is dead. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gītā it is stated that janma karma me divyaṁ yo jānāti tattvataḥ: [Bg. 4.9] "Any intelligent person who can simply understand how I take my birth and how I work," janma karma... Now, mark this word janma, birth; and karma, work. He never says janma mṛtyu. Mṛtyu means death. Everything that is born, that has death also. Anything. We haven't got any experience which is born does not die. This body is born; therefore it will die. The death is born with the birth of my body. I am increasing my age, number of years of my age, means I'm dying. But in this verse of Bhagavad-gītā Kṛṣṇa says janma karma but never says "My death." Death cannot take place. God is eternal. You also do not die. That I do not know. I simply change my body. So this is to be understood. Kṛṣṇa consciousness science is a great science. It is is not a new thing. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā... Most of you, you are well acquainted with Bhagavad-gītā. In the Bhagavad-gītā, it does not accept that after the death of this body—not exactly death—after the annihilation, appearance or disappearance of this body, you or I do not die. Na hanyate. Na hanyate means "never dies" or "is never destroyed," even after the destruction of this body. This is the position.
Now this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement we have to understand through the teachings of Lord Caitanya. He is the... Five hundred years ago, He appeared in Bengal, a province of India, and He specifically preached Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. His mission is that anyone who is born in India should take this message of Kṛṣṇa consciousness and distribute it all over the world. To execute that order we have come to your country. So my request is that you try to understand this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement with all your knowledge, scrutinizingly. Don't accept it blindly. Try to understand with your arguments, knowledge, logic, realization—you are human being—and you'll find it sublime, sublime, undoubtedly. We have published this book, Teachings of Lord Caitanya, and other books also, many books. So try to read them. And we have got our magazines, Back to Godhead. We are not sentimentalists, that we are simply dancing. The dancing has got great value; that, if you dance with us, you'll feel. It is not that some crazy fellows are dancing. No. The most intelligent persons, they are dancing. It is so nicely made that even a boy like here, he is a boy, he can take part. Universal. Join, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and dance, and you'll realize. Very simple method. You haven't got to understand any high standard of philosophy or jugglery of words, this or that. Simple thing. What is simple thing? God is great, everyone knows, and we are part and parcel of the great. So when we are combined with the great, we are also great. Just like your body, a small part of your body, a little finger or toe, that is also the same value of the whole body. But as soon as that small part or big part is separated from the body, it has no value. It has no value. This finger, a very small part of your body. If there is any pain, you spend thousands of dollars. You pay to the physician to cure the pain thousands of dollars, and when the physician says that "This finger has to be," what is called, "dislocated or cut off, separated, otherwise the whole body will be infected," so when this finger is cut off from your body, you don't care for it. No more value. Just try to understand. A typewriting machine, a small screw, when it is missing, your machine is not working nicely, you go to a repairing shop. He charges ten dollars. You pay immediately. That little screw, when it is out of that machine, it has not a value even one farthing. Similarly, we are all part and parcel of the Supreme. If we work with the Supreme, that means if we work in Kṛṣṇa consciousness or God consciousness, that "I am part and parcel..." Just like this finger is working fully in consciousness of my body. Whenever there is little pain I can feel. Similarly, if you dovetail yourself in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, you are living in your normal condition, your life is successful. And as soon as you are separated from Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the whole trouble is there. The whole trouble is there. So there are many examples we cite every day in this class. So we have to accept this Kṛṣṇa consciousness if we at all want to be happy and be situated in our normal condition. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
So we are reading the Teachings of Lord Caitanya. We have begun from our last meeting, and we shall again read it. You'll read it? Yes. It was began from page twenty-nine.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Page twenty-nine, but where did you finish reading?
Prabhupāda: Read it anywhere, that's all. Yes.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Okay. "In the Bhagavad-gītā we are informed that the constitutional nature of the individual entity is spirit soul. He is not matter. Therefore as spirit soul he is part and parcel of the Supreme Soul, the Absolute Truth, the Personality of Godhead. We also learn that it is the duty of the spirit soul to surrender, for only then he can be happy. The last instruction of the Bhagavad-gītā is that the spirit soul is to surrender completely unto the Supreme Soul, Kṛṣṇa, and in that way realize happiness. Here also Lord Caitanya is answering the questions of Sanātana, repeats the same truth, but without giving him information about the spirit soul which is already described in the Gītā."
Prabhupāda: Yes. The point is that what is the constitutional position of the spirit soul is very elaborately discussed in the Śrīmad Bhagavad-gītā. Now the last instruction in the Bhagavad-gītā, as Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. He has instructed to Arjuna all kinds of yoga system, all kinds of religious ritualistic process, sacrifice, and philosophical speculation, the constitutional position of this body, constitutional position of the soul. Everything He has described in the Bhagavad-gītā. And at last He says to Arjuna, "My dear Arjuna, because you are My very intimate and dear friend, therefore I say the most confidential part of Vedic knowledge." And what is that? "You simply surrender unto Me." That's all. People are not inclined to surrender; therefore he has to learn so many things. Just like a child, he has simply a feeling of surrender to the parents, he's happy. There is no need of learning philosophy how to live very happily. The child is completely dependent on the care of parents and he's happy. Simple philosophy. But because we have advanced in civilization, in knowledge, therefore we want to understand this simple philosophy in so many jugglery of words. That's all. So if you want to learn in jugglery of words, then this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not lacking. We have got volumes of books of philosophy. But if you accept this simple process, that we have to... God is great and we are part and parcel; therefore my duty is to serve and surrender unto God. That's all. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu, without discussing all the constitutional position, philosophy, knowledge, and so many other things, yoga system, He immediately begins that the constitutional position of the living entity is to serve the supreme whole. That is... That is the beginning of Caitanya Mahāprabhu's teaching. That means where the teachings of Bhagavad-gītā ended, Caitanya Mahāprabhu begins from that position. (aside:) Yes. Go on.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "He begins from the point where Kṛṣṇa ended His instruction. It is accepted by great devotees that Lord Caitanya is Kṛṣṇa Himself, and from the point where He ended His instruction in the Gītā, He now begins His instruction again to Sanātana. The Lord said to Sanātana, 'Your constitutional position is that you are pure living soul. This material body is not the identity of your real self, neither is your mind your real identity, nor your intelligence, nor is false ego the real identity of the self. Your identity is that you are the eternal servitor of the Supreme Lord Kṛṣṇa.' "
Prabhupāda: Now here is some important points, that in our self-realization, those who are grossly on the material platform, they think that this body, "I am this body, I am this body." Body means the senses; therefore my satisfaction means the satisfaction of the senses-sense gratification. This is the grossest form of self-realization. This body is also self. The body is self, the mind is self, and the soul is also self. Self, the synonym. The body and the mind and the soul, three of them are called self. Now in the grossest stage of our life we think that this body is the self. And in a subtler stage we think that the mind and the intelligence is the self. But actually, self is beyond this body, beyond this mind, beyond this intelligence. That is the position. Those who are grossly on the bodily concept of self-realization, they are materialists. And those who are on the concept of mind and intelligence, they are the philosophers and poets. They are philosophizing or giving us some idea in poetry, but their conception is still wrong. When you come to the point of spiritual platform, then it is called devotional service. That is being explained by Caitanya Mahāprabhu. (aside:) Go on.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: " 'Your position is that you are transcendental.' "
Prabhupāda: Transcendental. "You are beyond." This is explained in Bhagavad-gītā:
indriyāṇi parāṇy āhur
indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ
manasas tu parā buddhir
yo buddheḥ paratas tu saḥ
[Bg. 3.42]
First of all, you realize this body. Body means the senses. But when you go further, we see the mind is the center of these sensual activities. Unless the mind is sound, we cannot act with our senses. So indriyebhyaḥ paraṁ manaḥ. So transcendental to the senses, mind is there, and transcendental to the mind, there is intelligence, and transcendental to the intelligence, there is soul. That we have to understand. (aside:) Go on.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: " 'The superior energy of Kṛṣṇa is spiritual in constitution, and the external energy is material. You are between the material energy and the spiritual energy, and therefore your position is marginal. In other words, you belong to the marginal potency of Kṛṣṇa. You are simultaneously one with and different from Kṛṣṇa. Because you are spirit, therefore you are not different from Kṛṣṇa, but because you are only a minute particle of Kṛṣṇa, you are therefore different from Him.' "
Prabhupāda: Now here is one word used, marginal potency. Marginal potency, the exact Sanskrit word is taṭastha. Just like at the end of the land, the sea begins. So there is a marginal land. Just you go on the coast of the Pacific beach, you'll find some land. Sometimes it is covered by water and sometimes it is open land. This is marginal. Similarly, we spirit souls, although we are constitutionally one with God, but sometimes we are covered by māyā and sometimes we are free. Therefore our position is marginal. When we understand our real position, then... The same... Just like the same example. Try to understand. On the beach you'll find a certain portion of land which is sometimes covered by water, and again it is land. Similarly we are sometimes covered by māyā, the inferior energy, and sometimes we are free. So we have to maintain that free state. Just like in open land, there is no more water. If you come little far away from the sea water, then there is no more water; it is all land. Similarly, if you keep yourself from the material consciousness, come to the land of spiritual consciousness, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, then you keep your freedom. But if you keep yourself on the marginal position, then sometimes you'll be covered by māyā and sometimes you'll be free. So that is our position. (aside:) Go on.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "This simultaneous oneness and difference always exists in the relationship between the living entities and the Supreme Soul."
Prabhupāda: Now this simultaneously one and different, just take the same example, land. Somebody says, "Oh, I saw that portion is water." And somebody says, "No. I saw that some portion is land." So simultaneously one and different. Simultaneously one and different. Our position is... Because we are spirit soul and Kṛṣṇa, God, is spirit... He is whole spirit and I am particle of that spirit. Just like sun, the sun globe, and the sunshine, molecules of shining particles, they are also sunlight. The combination of those atomic particles of sunshine giving us the sunshine rays. So we are also shining just like the particles of the sun globe, but we are not equal to the complete sun. The glowing particles, molecules of the sunshine, is not equal in quantity with the sun globe, but in quality it is the same. Similarly, we living entities, we are minute particles of that supreme spirit soul, Kṛṣṇa or God. Therefore we are also shine. We are of the same quality. Just like a small particle of gold is gold. It is not iron. Similarly, we are spirit soul; therefore we are one. But because I am minute... Just like the same example. The marginal portion being very small, it is being sometimes covered by the water. But the large portion of the land, that is without any water. Similarly, māyā can cover the minute particles of the spirit soul, but māyā cannot cover the supreme whole. Just like the same example, the sky, the sunshine. The sunshine, portion of the sunshine, is covered by cloud. But if you go by airplane, jet plane, above the cloud, you'll find the sunshine is without any cloud. The cloud cannot cover the whole sun. Similarly, māyā cannot cover the supreme whole. Māyā can cover the small particles of Brahman. The theory, the Māyāvāda theory that "I am now covered by māyā. As soon as I am uncovered I become one with the whole..." We are one with the whole in the same way. Just like the sunshine and the sun globe, there is no difference in quality. Wherever there is sun, there is sunshine, but the small particles, the molecules of the sunshine, are never equal to the complete globe sun. That is being described by Caitanya Mahāprabhu in this chapter. (aside:) Go on.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "The living entity is just like a molecular part of the sunshine, whereas Kṛṣṇa is compared to the blazing shining sun. Lord Caitanya compared the living entities to the blazing sparks from the fire and the Supreme Lord to the blazing fire of the sun. The Lord cites in this connection a verse from Viṣṇu Purāṇa in which it is stated that everything that is manifested within this cosmic world is but an energy of the Supreme Lord. For example, as the fire emanating from one place exhibits its illumination and heat all around, so the Lord, although situated in one place in the spiritual world, manifests His different energies everywhere."
Prabhupāda: Now, this is very simple. Try to understand. Just like this fire, this lamp, is located at a certain place but the illumination is distributed all over this room, similarly whatever you see, display of this cosmic manifestation, they are display of the energy of the Supreme Lord. The Supreme Lord is situated in one place. That we cite in our Brahma-saṁhitā: govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. He's a person. Just like your President, Mr. Johnson, he's sitting in his room in Washington, but his power, his energy, is acting all over the state. If it is possible materially, similarly Kṛṣṇa, or God, the Supreme Person, He is situated in His place, abode, Vaikuṇṭha or kingdom of God, but His energy is acting. Another example, the sun. The sun, you can see sun is located at a certain place, but you see the sunshine is overflooding the whole universe. The sunshine is within your room. So similarly, whatever you are using, you yourself also, we are all display of the energy of the Supreme Lord. We are not different from Him. But when the cloud of māyā or illusion covers my eye, we cannot see the sun. Similarly, when the material concept of life covers me, we cannot understand what is God. We say God is dead. So we have to uncover our eyes from this illusion. Then you'll see directly God: "Here is God." Yes. In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is said,
santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti
yaṁ śyāmasundaram acintya-guṇa-svarūpaṁ
govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi
[Bs. 5.38]
That Supreme Personality of Godhead, He is Śyāmasundara. Śyāmasundara. Śyāma means blackish but very, very beautiful. That beautiful person, Supreme Person, Kṛṣṇa, is being observed and seen by saintly persons always. Premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena. Why they are seeing? Because their eyes have been cleared by the ointment of love of God. Just like if your eyes are defective, you apply some ointment, some lotion from the physician, and your eyesight becomes clear and bright, you can see things very nicely. Similarly, when your, these material eyes will be ointmented with love of God, then you'll see God, "Here is God." You will not say God is dead. And that covering has to be moved, and to move that covering you have to take this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.
Thank you very much. So any question? First of all from audience. We invite questions, if you have any question, doubt, about the statements, you can inquire. Tad viddhi praṇipātena paripraśnena sevayā [Bg. 4.34]. Everything, if you are serious to understood, we should submit our doubtful questions and then understand. You see. Yes?
Young man: Does one attain a consciousness that is beyond words? Or, I dare say, is there a communication that is not the word itself but perhaps a vibration which is much like sound or sound itself? Perhaps reaching for the oṁ. Is there a communication, something understood between you and myself, myself and my brother, others, all of us? Is there an experience perhaps where we're... Does it sound like "dong," "aung." Is there something else beside the verbal? Talk?
Prabhupāda: Yes, this Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Young man: Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Young man: Could you elaborate? Could you tell me how this can be? How it can be all the time? Rather than to be a man, rather than to have to talk English alone or other languages? How to talk that one language?
Prabhupāda: Well, sound can be vibrated in any language. It doesn't matter that Hare Kṛṣṇa can be sounded in Sanskrit only. You can sound it in English tone also: "Hare Kṛṣṇa." Is there any difficulty? These boys, they are also sounding in Hare Kṛṣṇa. So there is no difficulty. It is the sound that matters. It doesn't matter who is sounding. Just like in piano, if you touch, there is "dung." It doesn't matter whether an American is striking or an Indian striking or a Hindu striking or Muslim striking, the sound is sound. Similarly, this piano, Hare Kṛṣṇa, you just touch it and it will sound. That's all. Yes?
Young man (2): Do you sit and meditate alone? What do you do with your mind as it wanders? Do you think of something? Do you put it on something or do you let it wander by itself?
Prabhupāda: First of all let me know what do you mean by meditation?
Young man (2): Sitting alone quietly.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Young man (2): Sitting alone quietly.
Prabhupāda: Sitting alone quiet. Is it possible? Do you think it is possible?
Young man (2): If you listen to your own mind.
Prabhupāda: Then mind is always acting.
Young man (2): It chatters to you.
Prabhupāda: How can you sit, silent mind? Mind is always acting. Is there any experience that mind is not acting when you sit silently? When you sleep, the mind is acting. You are dreaming. This is the action of mind. So when do you find that your mind is silent?
Young man (2): That's what I was trying to ask you.
Prabhupāda: Yes. So therefore mind is never silent. You have to engage your mind to something. That is meditation.
Young man (2): What do you engage it to?
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is Kṛṣṇa. We engage our mind to Kṛṣṇa, the beautiful Supreme Personality of Godhead. Not only simply engaging the mind, but engaging the mind in action with the senses. Because mind is acting with our senses. Your mind said, "Let us go to that newly started ISKCON Society," so your legs carried you here. So mind... Thinking, feeling, willing, these are the functions of the mind. So mind thinks, feels, and they works. So you have to fix up your mind not only thinking of Kṛṣṇa, but also working for Kṛṣṇa, feeling for Kṛṣṇa. That is complete meditation. That is called samādhi. Your mind cannot go out. You have to engage your mind in such a way that the mind will think of Kṛṣṇa, feel for Kṛṣṇa, work for Kṛṣṇa. That is complete meditation.
Young man (2): What do you do with your eyes? Close your eyes?
Prabhupāda: Yes, eyes are one of the senses. Mind is the general sense, and under the governor general, there are particular commissioners or subordinate officers. So the eyes, the hand, the leg, the tongue, ten senses, they are working under the direction of the mind. So mind is expressed, manifested through the senses. Therefore unless you engage your senses in the same way as your mind is thinking, feeling, there is no perfection. There will be disturbance. If your mind is thinking of Kṛṣṇa and your eyes are seeing something else, there will be disruption or contradiction. Therefore under the... You have to first of all fix up your mind in Kṛṣṇa, and then all other senses will be engaged in the service of Kṛṣṇa. That is bhakti.
Hṛṣīka, hṛṣīka means senses. When you engage your senses in the service of the master of the senses... Kṛṣṇa is called Hṛṣīkeśa, or the master of the senses. Master of the senses means, try to understand. Just like this hand. The hand is working very nicely, but if the hand is paralyzed or Kṛṣṇa withdraws the power, then your hand is useless. You cannot restore it. Therefore you are not master of your hand. You are thinking falsely that "I am master of my hand." But actually, you are not master. The master is Kṛṣṇa. (aside:) I'll answer... Therefore when your senses will be engaged in the service of the master of the senses, that is called bhakti, devotional service. Now the senses are engaged in my designation. I am thinking that "This body is meant for the satisfaction of my wife or my this or that," so many things, "my country, my society." This is designation. But when you come to the spiritual platform, you understand that "I am part and parcel of the Supreme; therefore my activities should be to satisfy the Supreme." That is bhakti. Sarvopādhi-vinirmuktam [Cc. Madhya 19.170], being liberated from all designation. When your senses are purified, and when that senses are engaged in the service of the master of the senses, that is called acting in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. What is your question? So meditation, the engagement of mind, should be in that way. Then it will be perfect. Otherwise, the mind is so flickering and changing that if you don't fix up at a certain point... Fix up means... The mind is want to do something because the symptom of mind is thinking, feeling and willing. So you have to train your mind in such a way that you will think of Kṛṣṇa, you'll feel for Kṛṣṇa, you'll work for Kṛṣṇa. Then it is samādhi. That is perfect meditation.
Young man (2): How does one train the mind?
Prabhupāda: This is the training. You just engage yourself in activities of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is practical. Just like chanting, the boy of ten years old, he's also engaged. His mind is concentrated on the vibration Hare Kṛṣṇa. His other senses, legs or hand, they're working, dancing. So in this way we have to practice our mind, our senses always engaged in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That will make you perfect. And that is possible by everyone. You don't require to sit down at a place to artificially meditate upon something. As soon as you chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, immediately your mind is diverted, immediately you remember Kṛṣṇa, instruction of Kṛṣṇa, work of Kṛṣṇa, everything. That requires practice.
Young man (2): Since you are a ray of the sun, so to speak...
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Young man (2): Could you think of yourself? And when you think, you are thinking of Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: Why not? I am individual... Although I am small, but I am individual. I have got all the power of thinking, feeling, willing. We are doing that. We are individual. You have come here by your individual will. Nobody has forced you. If you like, you can go. Somebody comes here, somebody never comes, somebody comes daily. Why? Even you are small, you have got individuality. Even in this conditioned state, you are so free, so much free. And when you are unconditioned, purely spirit, you do not know how much freedom you have got. It doesn't matter you are small, but you are a spiritual spark. Don't you see that a small spiritual spark which no physician, no medical science has still discovered, where is the soul, but the soul is there. That is a fact. As soon as the soul is gone from this body, it is useless. Find out what is that important particle. That is not possible, because it is so small that your, with these material eyes or microscope or any scope you cannot find out. Therefore they say there is no soul. But they cannot explain what is gone. Even that small particle of spiritual soul is so powerful that as long as it is within this body, it keeps it fresh, nice, beautiful. And as soon as it is gone, immediately it becomes to decompose. Just see. Just like a drug, injection. A little, one grain, it keeps fit. It is something like that, it is so powerful. You do not know what is the power of that soul. That you have to learn. Then that is self-realization. This meditation process, sitting in a silent place, is recommended in the grossest stage of bodily concept of life. Let one thing, meditate, "Am I this body?" then make analysis. You'll see, "No. I am not this body. I am different from this body." Then further meditation: "If I am not this body, then the bodily actions, how it is being done?" It is being done for that presence of that small particle, myself. How the body is growing? Because on account of presence. Just like this boy, this boy has got a small stature of body. Now, this boy will grow a very stout and strong body in his young age, as at the age of twenty-four years. Now, this body will go, another body will come. How it is being possible? On account of presence of the small particle of the soul. But if that particle of the soul is taken away or gone away, this body no more will increase or change. These are the subject matter of meditation. But when you come to the point of understanding that "I am not this body. I am spirit soul," then the next stage will be "What is the function of the soul?" That function of soul is Kṛṣṇa consciousness, working in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So in the present age one has to take directly to the function of the soul; then other things will automatically come. It is not possible at the present moment that you can go to a secluded place and peacefully sit there and meditate upon... It is not possible in this age. It is impossible. If you try artificially, it will be failure. Therefore you have to take this process,
harer nāma harer nāma harer nāma eva kevalam
kalau nāsty eva nāsty eva nāsty eva gatir anyathā
[Cc. Ādi 17.21]
In this age of Kali, there is no other alternative for self-realization than this chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. That is the practical, real fact.
Madhudviṣa: Is there any way for a Christian to, without the help of a spiritual master, to reach the spiritual sky through believing in the words of Jesus Christ and trying to follow his teachings?
Prabhupāda: I don't follow.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Can a Christian in this age, without a spiritual master, but by reading the Bible and following Jesus's words, reach the...
Prabhupāda: When you read Bible, you follow spiritual master. How can you say without? As soon as you read Bible, that means you are following the instruction of Lord Jesus Christ, that means you are following spiritual master. So where is the opportunity of being without spiritual master?
Madhudviṣa: I was referring to a living spiritual master.
Prabhupāda: Spiritual master is not the question of... Spiritual master is eternal. Spiritual master is eternal. So your question is without spiritual master. Without spiritual master you cannot be, at any stage of your life. You may accept this spiritual master or that spiritual master. That is a different thing. But you have to accept. As you say that "by reading Bible," when you read Bible that means you are following the spiritual master represented by some priest or some clergyman in the line of Lord Jesus Christ. So any case, you have to follow a spiritual master. There cannot be the question without spiritual master. Is that clear?
Madhudviṣa: I mean like we couldn't understand the teachings of the Bhagavad-gītā without your help, without your presentation.
Prabhupāda: Similarly, you have to understand Bible with the help of the priest in the church.
Madhudviṣa: Yes. But is he receiving a good interpretation from his disciplic succession or his bishop? Because there seems to be some kind of a discrepancy in the interpretation of the Bible. There's many different sects of Christianity that interpret the Bible in different ways.
Prabhupāda: Of course, there cannot be any interpretation in the Bible. Then there is no authority of Bible. If you interpret something... Just like "Call a spade a spade." So if you call something else, that is a different thing. He's not spiritual master. Just like this is watch. Everybody has called it watch, and if I call it spectacle, then what is the value of my being spiritual master? I'm misleading. (laughter) It is watch, that I must say. So when there is misinterpretation, he's not a bona fide spiritual master. He's not spiritual master, what is called a bona fide. If I want to teach you how to see this watch, I can say that "This is called watch and this is called hand and this is called time indication; this is, this called...," so that is nice. And if I say that "Everybody says it is watch. I say it is spectacle," then what kind of a spiritual master I am? Reject him immediately. That intelligence you must have, who is a pseudo spiritual master or real spiritual master. Otherwise you'll be cheated. And that is being done. Everyone is interpreting in his own way. The Bhagavad-gītā, there are thousands of editions, and they have tried to interpret in their own way, all nonsense. They should be all thrown away. Simply you have to read Bhagavad-gītā as it is. Then you'll understand. There is no question of interpretation. Then the authority is gone. As soon as you interpret, then there is no authority. Lawbook. Do you mean to say in the court if you say before the judge, "My dear lord, I interpret this passage in this way," will it be accepted? The judge will at once say, "Who are you to interpret? You have no right." Then what is the authority of this lawbook if everyone comes, "I interpret in this way"? And interpretation when required? When a thing is not understood. If I say, "It is watch," and everyone understands that "This is watch, yes," then where is the opportunity of interpreting that this is spectacle? If anyone can understand the clear passage... Just like in the Bible, "God said, 'Let there be creation,' and there was creation." Where is the question of interpretation? Yes, God created. You cannot create. Where is the opportunity of interpretation? So unnecessary interpretation is not required and that is not bona fide, and those who are interpreting unnecessarily, they should be rejected immediately. Immediately, without any consideration. God said, "Let there be creation." So there was creation. Simple thing. Where is the question of interpretation? What can be the interpretation here? Suggest that this can be interpretation. Am I right? In the beginning of the Bible it is said like that? "God said, 'Let there be creation,' and there was creation. So what is your interpretation? Tell me what is your interpretation. Is there any possibility of interpretation? Can any one of you suggest? Then where is the opportunity of interpretation? One can explain. That is different thing, but the fact that God created, that will remain. That you cannot change. Now, how that creative process took place, that is explained in Bhāgavatam: First of all, there was sky, then there was sound, then there was this, that. This is the process of creation, that is another thing. But the fact, the primary fact that God created, that will remain at any circumstances. Not the rascal scientist says, "Oh, there was a chunk and it is split up, and there was these planets. Perhaps this and likely this," all this nonsense. They'll simply interpret, "likely," "perhaps." That is not science—"likely," "perhaps." Why perhaps? Here is clear statement, "God created." That's all. Finish. Yes.
Mahāpuruṣa: Prabhupāda, is there any contradiction, because Lord Jesus Christ and Lord Caitanya both appeared in the Kali-yuga and Lord Jesus Christ said that "The only way to God is through me. Just believe in me or surrender to me," and Lord Caitanya taught that hari-nāma is the only means of spiritual realization in this age?
Prabhupāda: So where do you find the difference? If Lord Jesus Christ says, "Through me," that means he's representative of God, and hari-nāma is God. So either through the representative of God or God, the same thing. God and God's representative, there is no difference. Even in these ordinary dealings, if I send some representative, if he signs something on my behalf, I have to accept that, because he is my representative. Similarly, God has to be approached through God or through His representative. The same thing. Only the difference may be of understanding. Because Lord Jesus Christ spoke to a society that was not very much advanced. You can understand that such a great personality, God conscious person, was crucified. Just see the condition of the society. In other words, they were low-grade society. So they were not able to understand the whole philosophy of God. That is sufficient. "God created. Just take it." They were not intelligent to understand how the creation took place. Had they been intelligent, they would not have crucified such a great personality like Jesus Christ. So we have to understand what is the condition of the society. Just like in the Koran it is said by Muhammad that "From this day you have no sex intercourse with your mother." Just find out the condition of the society. So we have to take account of the time, circumstances, society, and then preaching. So to society like that it is not possible to understand the high philosophical things as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. But the primary fact, the authority is God, that is accepted both in Bible and Bhagavad-gītā. Bible begins, "God is the supreme authority," and Bhagavad-gītā concludes, "You surrender." Where is the difference? Simply the description is according to the time, society, and place and people. That's all. They are not Arjuna. You see? So the things to be understood by Arjuna is not possible by the persons who had crucified Lord Jesus Christ. You have to study in that light. The same thing. A dictionary, a pocket dictionary, child's dictionary, and the dictionary, international dictionary, both of them dictionary, but the value is different. That dictionary is meant for a class of children, and that dictionary is meant for high scholars. But none of them you can say it is not dictionary. That you cannot say. Both of them are dictionaries. So we have to take consideration of the time, place, persons, everything. Just like Lord Buddha, he simply said that "Stop this nonsense animal killing." That was his propaganda. They were so low-grade people, simply taking pleasure in animal killing. So in order to elevate them, Lord Buddha wanted to stop this nonsense: "Please stop killing." So in every time a different representative of God or God comes to teach people at different circumstances. So according to the circumstances there may be some difference in explanation, but the primary factor remains the same. Lord Buddha said, "All right, there is no God, but you surrender to me." Then where is the difference? That means one has to accept the authority of God either this way or that way.
Child: Um, when Lord Buddha was here, did he sit down and meditate?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Child: Well, I thought that in this age you can't meditate, but Lord Buddha, who was God's son, he meditated.
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Child: But that wasn't the age of Kali?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Child: It was?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Child: Then how can you meditate?
Prabhupāda: Very good. (much laughter) Therefore we are better than Buddha. We say meditation is not possible. Do you see? Do you understand now? Lord Buddha said, "Meditate," but the followers of the Lord Buddha could not. They failed. We are giving new light, that "Meditation will fail. You take this." Is that clear? Yes. If somebody has said you something, and if you are failure, then I say, "You don't do this. Take this. It will be nice." Just like you are a child, you cannot meditate, but you can dance and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Lord Buddha knew that they cannot meditate. You are a very intelligent boy. But in order to stop their nonsense, he simply said, "Sit down. Meditate." That's all. (laughter) Just like a naughty boy, he's creating mischief. His parent says, "My dear John, you sit down here." He knows that he cannot sit down, but for the time being he'll sit down. The father knows that he'll not sit down, but at least for the time being let him stop these mischievous activities. All right. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Chant. (kīrtana) (end)

Seattle, October 4, 1968
Prabhupāda: (sings) Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. (audience responds) Somebody is helping him? Yes, it is all... So we are interested in capturing the original person. (chuckles) We are not interested with any subordinate. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ. But if one can capture the original person, then he captures everyone. Just like the same example. In the Vedas it is said in the Upaniṣad, yasmin vijñāte sarvam evaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavanti. If you can understand the Supreme Personality of Godhead or the Absolute Truth, then you understand everything. There is no need of understanding separately. Yasmin vijñāte sarvam etaṁ vijñātaṁ bhavanti. Similarly, in the Bhagavad-gītā also it is said,
Now we are, everyone, searching after some standard of life where we will have no anxiety. That is the aim of everyone. Why we are struggling? We are trying to approach a certain point. Just like two parties playing on football, they are, each one of them, trying to approach the goal. That is victory. So everyone is trying to gain something, according to different position, according to different idea. Not everyone is searching after the same thing. Somebody searching after material pleasure, somebody searching after intoxication, somebody is searching after sex, somebody is searching after money, somebody is searching after knowledge, somebody is searching after so many things. But there is one thing. If we can get that, attain to that perfection, then we shall be satisfied and we shall say that "We do not want anything." Svāmin kṛtārtho 'smi varaṁ na yāce [Cc. Madhya 22.42]. There are many instances. So there is like that, and that is Kṛṣṇa. If you can simply understand Kṛṣṇa, then your knowledge is perfect, you understand everything. You understand science, you understand mathematics, you understand chemistry, physics, astronomy, philosophy, literature, everything. It is so nice. So Bhāgavata says therefore that saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam [SB 1.2.13]. Whatever department of knowledge or whatever department of activities you are engaged in, it doesn't matter. But if you can find out the Supreme by your pursuit of knowledge, that is your perfection. You are a scientist, all right, it doesn't matter. By your scientific research work you find out the Supreme. Then it is your perfection. You are businessman? Oh. With your money just find out the Supreme. You are a lover? Just find out the supreme lover. You are after taste, aesthetic, or... Atheistic not; aesthetic sense, taste, beauty, if you find out the Supreme, your searching after beauty will be satisfied. Everything. Kṛṣṇa, that is Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa means all-attractive. You are searching after something. If you find Kṛṣṇa then you'll see yes, your goal is attained. Therefore His name is Kṛṣṇa.
Kṛṣṇa means "all-attractive." He is attractive to the lover, He's attractive to the wise, He's attractive to the politician, He's attractive to the scientist, He is attractive to the rogues. Rogues also. When Kṛṣṇa entered the arena of Kaṁsa, different kinds of people saw Him differently. Those who were invited from Vṛndāvana, they were young girls. They saw Kṛṣṇa, "Oh, the most beautiful person." Those who were wrestlers, they saw Kṛṣṇa as thunderbolt. They also saw Kṛṣṇa, but they say, "Oh, here is thunderbolt." Just like however strong you may be, if there is falldown of thunderbolt everything is finished. So they saw Kṛṣṇa as thunderbolt, the wrestlers. Yes. And the elderly persons, elderly ladies, they saw Kṛṣṇa as loving child. So you can establish relationship with Kṛṣṇa any way. There are twelve kinds of rasas, humor. Just like sometimes we want to see a very pathetic scene in some drama, some ghastly scene. Somebody is murdering somebody and we take pleasure in seeing that. There are certain kinds of person... There are different kinds of sporting. One of our student in Montreal, he was saying that his father took pleasure in bull fighting in Spain. When the bull is killed by fighting, he was taking pleasure. So different kinds of men. One person is seeing, "It is horrible," another person is enjoying, "Oh, it is very nice." You see? So Kṛṣṇa can accommodate. If you want to love horrible things, Kṛṣṇa can present yourself as Nṛsiṁhadeva, "Ah."(laughter—Haribol) Yes. And if you want to see Kṛṣṇa as very loving friend, He is Vamśī-dhārī, Vṛndāvana-vihārī. If you want Kṛṣṇa as loving child, then He's Gopāla. If you want child as loving friend, he's Arjuna. Just like Arjuna and Kṛṣṇa. So there are twelve kinds of humors. Kṛṣṇa can be accommodated with all the humors; therefore His name is Akhila-rasāmṛta-sindhu. Akhila-rasāmṛta-sindhu. Akhila means universal; rasa means mellow, humor; and the ocean. Just like if you try to find out water and if you go before the Pacific Ocean, oh, unlimited water. There is no comparison how much water is there. (chuckling) Similarly, if you want something and if you approach Kṛṣṇa, you'll find unlimited supply, unlimited supply, just like ocean. Therefore it is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ. If anyone can approach or gain that Supreme Absolute, then he will be satisfied and he will say, "Oh, I have no more hankering. I have got everything complete, in full satisfaction." Yaṁ labdhvā cāparaṁ lābhaṁ manyate nādhikaṁ tataḥ yasmin sthite. And if one is situated in that transcendental position, then what happens? Guruṇāpi duḥkhena na vicālyate [Bg. 6.20-23]. If there is very severe test of distress, he's not, I mean to say, faltering.
There are many instances in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā the Pāṇḍavas were placed in so many distressed condition, but they were never faltering. They never asked Kṛṣṇa, "My dear Kṛṣṇa, You are my friend. You are our friend, the Pāṇḍavas. Why we are undergoing so much severe test of difficulties?" No. They never. Because they were confident that "In spite of all these difficulties, we shall come out victorious because Kṛṣṇa is there. Because Kṛṣṇa is there." This confidence. This is called śaraṇāgati, surrender. There are six points of surrender unto Kṛṣṇa. One point of surrender is to believe that "Kṛṣṇa will protect me." Just like a small child has got full faith in his mother: "My mother is there. There is no danger." Confident. I have seen it. Everyone. I have got... I'll narrate one practical experience. In Calcutta, in my younger days, I was traveling in tram, and my youngest son, he was with me. He was only two years old, or two or two and a half years old. So the conductor, out of joke, asked him, "Give me your fare." So he first of all said like this: "I have no money." So the conductor said, "Then you get down." He immediately said, "Oh, here is my father." (makes some gesture) (laughter) You see. "You cannot ask me to get down. My father is here." You see? So this is the psychology. If you have approached Kṛṣṇa, then even the greatest fear will not agitate you. That is a fact. So such a thing is Kṛṣṇa. Try to achieve this greatest boon, Kṛṣṇa. And what Kṛṣṇa says? Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati [Bg. 9.31]. "My dear Kaunteya, son of Kuntī, Arjuna, declare in the world that My devotees will never be vanquished." Will never be vanquished. Kaunteya pratijānīhi na me bhaktaḥ praṇaśyati.
Similarly, there are many passages in the Bhagavad-gītā. I'm quoting from Bhagavad-gītā because this book is very popular all over the world, and... Try to understand, read this book, very valuable book of knowledge. So Kṛṣṇa says,
Who can worship Kṛṣṇa? That is described here, that budhā. Budhā means most intelligent person. Bodha, bodha means knowledge, and budhā means one who is wise, full of knowledge. Everyone is after knowledge. Here you have got this Washington University. There are many students. They have come here to acquire knowledge. So one who has acquired the perfection of knowledge or the highest platform of knowledge, he is called budhā. So not only budhā but bhāva-samanvitāḥ. Bhāva means ecstasy. One must be very learned and wise, at the same time he must feel ecstasy spiritually. "Such person," Kṛṣṇa says, iti matvā bhajante mām. "Such persons worships Me or loves Me." One who is very intelligent and one who is transcendentally very full of ecstasy, such person loves Kṛṣṇa or worships Kṛṣṇa. Why? Because iti matvā, "by understanding this." What is this? Ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo [Bg. 10.8], "I am the origin of everything, sarvasya." Anything you bring, that is, if you go on, search out, then you will find ultimately it is Kṛṣṇa.
The Vedānta also says the same thing. What is Brahman? Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This life, this human life... We have now... In other life we have enjoyed sense pleasure to the fullest extent. What we can enjoy in this human life? In other life... Of course, according to Darwin's theory, just prior to this human life there was monkey life. So the monkey... You have no experience. In India we have got experience. Each and every monkey has got at least hundred girls with him. Hundred, one hundred. So what we able to enjoy? Every, each, they have got party, and each party, one monkey has got a least fifty, sixty, not less than twenty-five. So a hog's life, they have got also dozens of... Dozens. And they have no distinction, "Who is my mother, who is my sister, who is my relative." You see? So they're enjoying. So do you mean to say that human life is meant like that—like monkeys and hogs and cats and dogs? Is that perfection of human life, to satisfy sense gratification? No. That we have enjoyed in various forms of life. Now? The Vedānta says, athāto brahma jijñāsā. This life is for inquiring and understanding Brahman. What is that Brahman? Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ brahma or parama, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. And Kṛṣṇa is Para-brahma. Brahman, we are all Brahman, but He is Para-brahman, the Supreme Brahman. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. Just like you are all Americans, but your President Johnson is the supreme American. That is natural. Vedas says that the supreme of everyone is God. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). Who is God? He is the most perfect eternal, He is the most perfect living force. That is God. Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān.
Eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. The meaning is that one living force is supplying all the demands of all other living entities. Just like in a family the father is supplying the necessities of the wife, the children, the servant, a small family. Similarly, you expand it: the government or the state or the king is supplying the necessities of all the citizens. But everything is incomplete. Everything is incomplete. You can supply your family, you can supply your society, you can supply your country, but you cannot supply everyone. But there are millions and trillions of living entities. Who is supplying food? Who is supplying hundreds and thousands of ants within the hole in your room? Who is supplying food? When you go to the green lake there are thousands of ducks. Who is taking care of them? But they are living. There are millions of sparrows, birds, beasts, elephants. At one time he eats hundred pounds. Who is supplying food? Not only here, but there are many millions and trillions of planets and universes everywhere. That is God. Nityo nityānām eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān. Everyone is dependent on Him, and He is supplying all the necessities, all the necessities. Everything complete. Just like this planet, everything is complete.
Every planet is so made that it is complete in itself. The water is there, reserved in the seas and oceans. That water is taken away by the sunshine. Not only here, in other planets also, the same process is going on. It is transformed into cloud, then distributed all over the land, and there is growing of vegetables, fruits and plants, everything. So everything is complete arrangement. That we have to understand, that who has made this complete arrangement everywhere. The sun is rising in due time, the moon is rising in due time, the seasons are changing in due time. So how you can say? There is evidence in the Vedas there is God. In every scripture, every great personality, devotee, representative of God... Just like Lord Jesus Christ, he gave information of God. Although he was crucified, he never changed his opinion. So we have evidences from scripture, from Vedas, from great personality, still, if I say, "God is dead. There is no God," then what kind of man I am? This is called demon. They'll never believe it. They'll never believe... Yes. Just the opposite demon is budhā. Budhā means very intelligent, wise man. In the Caitanya-caritāmṛta it is said, therefore, kṛṣṇa ye bhaje se baḍa catura. Anyone who becomes attracted by Kṛṣṇa and loves Him... Worshiping means loving. In the beginning it is worshiping, but at the end it is love. Worshiping.
So iti matvā bhajante māṁ budhā. Anyone who is wise, who is intelligent, who knows that Kṛṣṇa is the cause of all causes...
Sarva-kāraṇa: everything has got cause, cause and effect. So you go on finding out what is the cause of this, what is the cause of this, what is the cause of this, then you'll find Kṛṣṇa. Sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam. And Vedānta says, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. You cannot say something has sprang automatically. That is foolishness. Everything has a source of generation. Everything. That is intelligence. Don't say... Just like in modern science says that "There was a chunk and there was creation—perhaps." That is also "perhaps," you see. So this kind of knowledge is useless. You must find out. If I ask the scientist, "What is the cause of this chunk?" they cannot reply. So find out the cause, and you'll find that... If I cannot find, then we have to follow... Mahājano yena gataḥ sa panthāḥ [Cc. Madhya 17.186], we have to follow the authorized ācāryas. If you be Christian, just follow Jesus Christ. He says, "There is God." Then you accept there is God. He says that "God created this. He said that 'Let there be creation,' and there was creation." So we accept this, "Yes. God created." Here also in the Bhagavad-gītā God says, Kṛṣṇa says, ahaṁ sarvasya prabhavo [Bg. 10.8], "I am the origin." So God is the origin of creation. Sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam: [Bs. 5.1] He is the cause of all causes.
So we have to take the examples of great personalities, we have to study authorized books and Vedas, and we have to follow their example; then Kṛṣṇa consciousness or God realization or God consciousness is not difficult. It is very easy. There is no, I mean to say, any stumbling block on the path of your understanding what is God. Everything is there. The Bhagavad-gītā is there, the Śrīmad-Bhāgavata is there. Even you accept, your Bible is there, the Koran is there, everywhere. Without God, there cannot be any book or scripture. Nowadays, of course, they are manufacturing so many things. But in any human society the conception of God is there—according to time, according to the people, but the idea is there. Now you have to understand, jijñāsā. Therefore Vedānta-sūtra says that you try to understand God by inquiry, inquiry. This inquiry is very important. In our process, ādau gurvāśrayaṁ sad-dharma pṛcchāt. One has to accept a bona fide spiritual master and he has to inquire from him, sad-dharma pṛcchāt. Similarly, in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also says that jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam. "One who is inquisitive to understand the Absolute Truth, he requires a spiritual master." Tasmād guruṁ prapadyeta jijñāsuḥ śreya uttamam [SB 11.3.21]. Jijñāsuḥ means inquisitive, one who inquires. Inquiry is natural. Just like a child: with the development of his life he inquires from the parents, "Father, what it is? Mother, what it is? What it is? What it is?" This is nice. A boy, child, who is inquiring, that means he is very intelligent boy. So we should be intelligent and inquire, jijñāsā. Brahma-jijñāsā. This life is for brahma-jijñāsā, to understand, to inquire about God. Then a life is successful. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. And after inquiring, inquiring, inquiring, understanding, understanding, understanding, then what is the ultimate stage? That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. After many, many births of inquiry, when one becomes actually a wise man, man of knowledge, then what happens? Bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate: "He surrenders unto Me," Kṛṣṇa says. Why? Vāsudevaḥ sarvam iti. He understands that Vasudeva, Kṛṣṇa, is the cause of all causes. Sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ. But such kind of great soul is very rare, to understand it. Therefore Caitanya-caritāmṛta says, sei bado catura: he is very intelligent.
So these are the definition of intelligent person. So if we want to be intelligent, we can adopt the process how to become intelligent. But on the other hand, if we are actually intelligent, why not take this Kṛṣṇa consciousness immediately and become intelligent? Without, without going to the process, you take... It is offered to you by the most magnanimous incarnation, Lord Caitanya. He's offering you, kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te [Cc. Madhya 19.53]. He's giving you love of Kṛṣṇa. Rūpa Gosvāmī offered his obeisances to Lord Caitanya, namo mahā-vadānyāya kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te: "O my dear Lord Caitanya, You are the most charitable, magnanimous of all incarnations. Why? Because You are directly giving love of Kṛṣṇa. The love of Kṛṣṇa which cannot be achieved after many, many births, You are delivering cheaply, 'Take it immediately.' " Namo mahā-vadānyāya kṛṣṇa-prema-pradāya te kṛṣṇāya kṛṣṇa-caitanya. They could understand that "You are Kṛṣṇa"; otherwise it was not possible by anyone to offer Kṛṣṇa-prema, love of Kṛṣṇa, so cheaply. "You are Kṛṣṇa, You have got that power." And actually He is so. Kṛṣṇa failed to give Kṛṣṇa-prema, love of Kṛṣṇa, when He came personally and taught Bhagavad-gītā. He simply said, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. But people misunderstood Him. Therefore Kṛṣṇa came as a devotee and offered Kṛṣṇa-prema to the people in general. So our request to everyone that you take this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, and you will feel that "I don't want any more, anything more. I am satisfied, fully satisfied."
Thank you very much. Any question?
Viṣṇujana: How do we render perfect service to Kṛṣṇa?
Prabhupāda: By your anxiety. (laughter, "Haribol!") If you are anxious to serve Kṛṣṇa, that is the real asset. Kṛṣṇa is unlimited. What service we can offer to Him? And He has got unlimited servants also. What service He requires from you and me? He's perfect in Himself. He doesn't require any service also. But if you are anxious to serve Him, then He does not refuse. That is His mercy; that is His magnanimity. So the more you increase your anxiety to serve Kṛṣṇa, the more it becomes perfect. He's unlimited. Your anxiety, you become unlimited. So there is competition. The more you serve Kṛṣṇa, the more He accepts you and the more He gives you intelligence. You see? So the spiritual world is unlimited. There is no end of service, and there is no end of accepting the service. It is not that. So eagerness. Tatra laulyam eka mūlyam. I am not manufacturing the answer, but I am giving you evidence from Rūpa Gosvāmī, our ācārya. He says, kṛṣṇa-bhakti-rasa-bhāvitā matiḥ krīyatāṁ yadi kuto 'pi labhyate: "My dear gentlemen, my dear boys and girls, if you can purchase a..., your sense of loving Kṛṣṇa—'How I can love Kṛṣṇa more and more'—this, this much, this anxiety, if you can purchase this matiḥ,"—means intelligence; it is very nice intelligence—" 'How I shall serve Kṛṣṇa...' " Kṛṣṇa-bhakti-rasa-bhāvitā matiḥ. Matiḥ means intelligence or status of mind, that "I'll serve Kṛṣṇa." "If you can purchase this status of mind anywhere, please immediately purchase." Then next question will be, "All right, I shall purchase. What is the price, do you know?" "Yes, I know what is the price." "What is that price?" "Laulyam, simply your eagerness, that's all." Laulyam ekaṁ mūlyam. "Ah, that I can have." No. Na janma koṭibhis sukṛtibhir labhyate. This eagerness, how to love Kṛṣṇa, this is not available even after many, many births. So if you have a pinch of that anxiety, "How I can serve Kṛṣṇa?" you must know you are the most fortunate man. A pinch only, laulya, this anxiety, "How I can serve Kṛṣṇa?" it is very nice. Then Kṛṣṇa will give you intelligence.
"Anyone who is engaged with love and affection in My service, without any hypocrisy," then Kṛṣṇa can understand everything. He is within me, within you. Then He will give you intelligence: "My dear boy, you do like this." And by doing that, what he will achieve? Yena mām upayānti te: "He'll come back to Me." And what profit he will get by going there? Ah, yad gatvā na nivartante tad dhāma paramaṁ mama [Bg. 15.6]. Māṁ hi pārtha vyapāśritya ye 'pi syuḥ pāpa-yonayaḥ [Bg. 9.32]. Duḥkhalayam aśāśvatam [Bg. 8.15]. There are so many. Please read Bhagavad-gītā As It Is. You'll get perfect knowledge, the science of God. That is the only study for human being.
So simply your eagerness is the perfection for serving Kṛṣṇa. Increase that eagerness. And eagerness means if you love Kṛṣṇa, that eagerness will increase with your increase of love: "How I shall serve Kṛṣṇa?" Because you are voluntary servant, nobody is forcing. That means unless you love Kṛṣṇa, how that eagerness will increase? So there are so many things to love Kṛṣṇa. Beginning is this śravaṇaṁ kīrtanam. This śravaṇam, hearing, and chanting. Hearing, you are hearing Hare Kṛṣṇa, you are hearing Bhagavad-gītā, you are hearing Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam about Kṛṣṇa, and chanting. This is the beginning. Then, naturally,
These nine kinds of different varieties of service to Kṛṣṇa will enlighten you, will advance you in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and your life will be successful. Any other question? Try to understand, question. It is not a thing that we are forcibly pushing. You have got intelligence. Kṛṣṇa has given you intelligence. Try to understand with your intelligence but do not try to avoid. Make your question to understand it, not making question to avoid it. There are two kinds of question. That question will not help you. If you try to avoid, then Kṛṣṇa will help you to avoid, and if you want to capture Kṛṣṇa, then Kṛṣṇa will help you how you can capture. Two things are going on. Whatever path you want, you can accept. Ye yathā māṁ prapadyante tāṁs tathaiva bhajāmy aham [Bg. 4.11]. Kṛṣṇa helps according to the person's attitude. If... There are... Just like so many philosophers, they want to forget Kṛṣṇa. Just like you will find in Dr. Radhakrishnan's book, in the Ninth Chapter Kṛṣṇa said, man-manā bhava mad-bhakto mad-yājī māṁ namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. The translation is all right, but he comments, "It is not to Kṛṣṇa that you have to surrender." Just see. That means his whole process of writing the book is to mislead persons how one can forget Kṛṣṇa. So if anyone wants to forget Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa will give him such intelligence that he will never be able to understand Kṛṣṇa. But if anyone tries to love Kṛṣṇa, understand Kṛṣṇa, He'll give full of intelligence. You can understand. That is Kṛṣṇa. You have got full liberty. But if you forget Kṛṣṇa, then you have to serve māyā, and if you love Kṛṣṇa, then māyā will leave you.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Prabhupāda, after Lord Caitanya took sannyāsa, in the Teachings of Lord Caitanya it says He met His mother. I always thought that a sannyāsī could not do that.
Prabhupāda: No, a sannyāsī cannot meet his wife. A sannyāsī is forbidden to go home, and never meet his wife, but he can meet if other... But that... Caitanya Mahāprabhu did not go to His home. It is by arrangement. Advaita Prabhu brought His mother to see Caitanya. Caitanya Mahāprabhu, after accepting sannyāsa He was just like mad after Kṛṣṇa. He was going on the shore of the Ganges forgetting that this is Ganges. He thought that "This is Yamunā. I am going to Vṛndāvana, following the..." So Nityānanda Prabhu sent one man, that "I am following Caitanya. Please inform Advaita to bring one boat in some ghāṭa so that He'll be able to take Him to His home." So Caitanya Mahāprabhu was in ecstasy. Then He saw all of a sudden that Advaita was waiting with a boat. So He asked Him, "Advaita, why You are here? Here, it is Yamunā." Advaita said, "Yes, My dear Lord, wherever You are it is Yamunā. So You come with Me." So He went, and when He went He went to Advaita's home. Then He saw, "You have misled Me. You have brought Me at Your home. It is not Vṛndāvana. How is that?" "All right, Sir, You have come by mistake, so...," (laughter) "please remain here." So He immediately sent one man to His mother. Because He knew that Caitanya Mahāprabhu has accepted sannyāsa; He's never coming back again to home. So His mother is mad after the son. He was the only son. So He gave a chance to His mother to see Him for the last time. That was arranged by Advaita. So when mother came, Caitanya Mahāprabhu immediately fell down on the feet of His mother. He was a young man, twenty-four years old, and the mother, when she saw that her son has accepted sannyāsa, there is daughter-in-law at home, naturally woman, she was very much affected, began to cry. So Caitanya Mahāprabhu tried to pacify her with very nice words. He said, "My dear mother, this body is given by you, so I should have engaged My body in your service. But I am your foolish son. I have done some mistake. Please excuse Me." So that scene is very pathetic—separation between mother and son. (long pause) All right, chant. Chant loudly. Loudly. (kīrtana) (prema-dhvanī) Hare Kṛṣṇa. Jaya. Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. Today's kīrtana?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: We collected fifty dollars.
Prabhupāda: Huh? Oh, that's nice. And Back to Godhead? How many copies sold, Back to Godhead?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: About fifty-two.
Prabhupāda: Oh. That's nice. What is that? (end)

Seattle, October 7, 1968
Prabhupāda: (sings) Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. (devotees repeat) So we are worshiping Govindam, the reservoir of all pleasures, Govinda, Kṛṣṇa. And He is ādi-puruṣaṁ, the original person. So govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. Bhajāmi means "I worship," "I surrender unto Him and I agree to love Him." These are the terms offered by hymns by Brahmā. That Brahma-saṁhitā is a, considerably a large book. The first verse in the Fifth Chapter it is said that the Lord, Govinda, He has got His particular planet, which is known as Goloka Vṛndāvana. It is beyond this material sky. This material sky you can see as far as your vision go, but beyond that material sky there is spiritual sky. This material sky is covered by material energy, mahat-tattva, and there are seven layers of covering of earth, water, fire, air. And beyond that covering there is an ocean, and beyond that ocean the spiritual sky begins. And in that spiritual sky, the highest planet is called Goloka Vṛndāvana. These things are described in the Vedic literature, in the Bhagavad-gītā also. Bhagavad-gītā is very well known book. There also it is stated,
In the Bhagavad-gītā it is said that there is another spiritual sky, where there is no need of sunshine. Na yatra bhāsayate sūryo. Sūrya means sun, and bhāsayate means distributing the sunshine. So there is no need of sunshine. Na yatra bhāsayate sūryo na śaśāṅko. Śaśāṅka means moon. Neither there is need of moonlight. Na śaśāṅko na pāvakaḥ. Neither there is need of electricity. That means the kingdom of light. Here, this material world is kingdom of darkness. That you know everyone. It is actually darkness. As soon as there is sun on the other side of this earth, it is darkness. That means by nature it is dark. Simply by sunshine, moonshine, and electricity we are keeping it light. Actually, it is darkness. And darkness means ignorance also. Just like at night people are more ignorant. We are ignorant, but at night we are more ignorant. So Vedic instruction is tamasi jyotir gama. The Vedas say, "Don't remain in this darkness. Just transfer yourself to the kingdom of light." And the Bhagavad-gītā also says that there is a special sky, or a spiritual sky, where there is no need of sunshine, there is no need of moonlight, there is no need of electricity, and—yad gatvā na nivartante [Bg. 15.6]and if anyone goes to that kingdom of light, he never comes back again to this kingdom of darkness.
So how we can transfer into that kingdom of light? The whole human civilization is based on these principles. The Vedānta says, athāto brahma jijñāsā. Atha ataḥ. "Therefore you should now inquire about Brahman, the Absolute." "Therefore now" means... Every word is significant. "Therefore" means because you have got this human body—"therefore." And ataḥ means "hereafter." "Hereafter" means you have passed through many, many lives, 8,400,000 species of life. Aquatics—900,000. Jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. This is the... Darwin has taken the idea of evolution from this Padma Purāṇa. You won't find any philosophy, any doctrine in the world which is not found in the Vedic literature. It is so perfect, everything is there. So the anthropomorphism or—what is called?—anthropology... Anthropology of Darwin is there in the Padma Purāṇa. It is very nicely described. Darwin cannot explain what are the number of the species of different, but Padma Purāṇa states that there are 900,000 species of life within water, within the ocean. And above the ocean, as soon as the ocean water is dried up, the land is coming out, immediately the vegetation begins. Different types of plants and trees then come out. So jalajā nava-lakṣāṇi sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati. Two millions, lakṣa-viṁśati, twenty hundred thousand. That is two million? Anyway... Sthāvarā lakṣa. Sthāvarā means those who cannot move. There are different types of living entities. The trees, the plants, they cannot move. The other type of living entities, just like the birds, the beasts, the human being, they can move. So sthāvarā and jaṅgama. Jaṅgama means those who can move, and sthāvarā means those who cannot move. The hills, the mountains, they are also amongst the sthāvarās. They are also living entities. There are many hills, they are growing. That means there is life, but in the lowest stage of: stone. So in this way we are making progress. Sthāvarā lakṣa-viṁśati kṛmayo rudra-saṅkhyakāḥ. Reptiles and worms. Rudra-saṅkhyakāḥ means eleven hundred thousands. Then from reptiles, worms, the wings grow-birds. From wings grow... Then it comes to the bird's life. Pakśiṇāṁ daśa-lakṣaṇam: ten hundred thousands of birds. And then paśavaḥ triṁśal-lakṣāṇi, four-legged animals, there are thirty hundred thousand. So nine and twenty, twenty-nine, then eleven, forty, then birds, ten, fifty, beasts, thirty, eighty-eighty hundred thousands. And then... Eight millions—and four hundred thousand species of human life. Human life is not in large quantity. Out of that, mostly they are uncivilized, and very few Aryan families. The Aryan family—the Indo-European family, they are also Aryan—they are very few. The Europeans, they belong to the Indo-European group. The Americans, they also come from Europe. So this group of human society is very few. There are other, many uncivilized groups. Therefore Vedānta says, atha ataḥ: now you have got developed human form of life, civilized life, you have got nice arrangement for your comfortable life. Especially in America you have got all material comforts. You have got cars, you have got good road, nice food, nice building, nice dress, nice feature of your body. Everything God has given you very nice. The Vedānta advises, "Now you take to about the inquiry of Brahman." Athāto brahma jijñāsā.
This is applicable for everyone, civilized men. I don't speak of the Americans, in Europe, in Asia. Anywhere. Aryans means those who are advanced. Non-Aryans means those who are not ad... This is the Sanskrit meaning, ārya. And śūdras... Aryans are divided into four castes. The most intelligent class is called brāhmaṇa, and the less than the brāhmaṇas means those who are administrators, politicians, they are kṣatriyas. And next to them the mercantile class, traders, merchants, industrialists, less than the administrative class. And less than that, the śūdras. Śūdras means worker, laborer. So this system is not new. It is everywhere. Wherever there is human society, these four classes of men are there. Sometimes I am questioned why there is caste system in India. Well, this caste system is there. It is by nature. Bhagavad-gītā says, cātur-varṇyaṁ mayā sṛṣṭaṁ guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ: [Bg. 4.13] "The four classes of men are there. That is My law." How they are four classes? Guṇa-karma-vibhāgaśaḥ. Guṇa means quality, and karma means work. If you have got very nice quality, intelligence, brahminical qualities... Brahminical qualities means if you speak truth, you are very clean and you are self-controlled, your mind is in equilibrium, you are tolerant, and so many qual... You believe in God, you know scriptures practically. These qualities are for the higher class, brāhmaṇa. The first qualification of a brāhmaṇa is that he's truthful. He'll disclose everything even to his enemy. He'll never, I mean to say, hide anything. Satyam. Śaucam, very clean. A brāhmaṇa is expected to take bath daily thrice and chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. Bahyābhyantara, clean outside, clean inside. These are qualities. So when these opportunities are there, then the Vedānta-sūtra, Vedānta advises, "Now you begin to inquire about Brahman." Athāto brahma jijñāsā.
Athāto brahma jijñāsā. When one has reached to the material perfection, then the next business is to inquire. If we do not inquire, if we do not try to understand what is Brahman, then we must be frustrated. Because the hankering is there, advancement, advancement of knowledge. The theory of advancement of knowledge is that nobody should be satisfied by the knowledge, what he already knows. He must know more and more. So in your country in comparison to other countries at the present age, you have advanced materially very nicely. Now you take to this brahma-jijñāsā, inquiry about the Supreme Absolute: What is that Absolute? What I am? I am also Brahman. Because I am part and parcel of Brahman, therefore I am also Brahman. Just like part and parcel, a little particle of gold is also gold. It is no other thing. Similarly, we are also particle of Brahman or the Supreme. Just like the molecules of sunshine, they are also as illuminating as the sun globe, but they are very small. Similarly, we living entities, we are also the same as God. But He is just like as big as the sun globe or the deity in the sun globe, but we are small particles, the molecules of sunshine. This is the comparison between the Supreme and us. We cannot become the Supreme. At least, we don't find in authorized Vedic literature that a living entity can become as powerful as God. No. It is not possible. God is great. He's always great. Even if you are liberated from the material clutches, still He is great. That is... Therefore this verse, govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. Our perpetual relationship with God is to worship Him, or to serve Him. That service is very pleasant. Don't take it... As soon as we talk of service, we may think that "Oh, we are suffering here by adopting service." Just like the other evening one boy was questioning, "Why should we bow down?" I do not know if he's present here. The bow down to surrender to somebody is not bad, but because we are in a different situation, by surrendering to other, it is very uncomfortable. Just like nobody wants to be dependent on other nation, nobody wants to be dependent on other people. Everyone wants to be independent, because this material world is perverted reflection of the spiritual world. But in the spiritual world, the more you surrender, the more you are servant, you are happy. You are happy. But we have no such understanding at the present moment. We have no spiritual idea, no spiritual realization; therefore we shudder as soon as we hear that we have to become servant of God. But there is no question of shuddering. It is very pleasant to become servant of God. You see so many reformers, they came, they served the mission of God, and they are still worshiped. So to become servant of God, servitor of God, is not very insignificant thing. It is the most important thing. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi. But don't accept it. First of all try to understand. Therefore Vedānta-sūtra says, athāto brahma jijñāsā. Try to understand what is Brahman. (microphone is making sound) Why this sound? Try to understand what is Brahman and try to understand your relationship. And then, when you actually surrender, you'll feel your eternal blissful life, full of knowledge.
And this is very nicely explained in the Teachings of Lord Caitanya. In the Bhagavad-gītā also, the same teaching is there, but... We have got two books already published, one, Bhagavad-gītā As It Is; another book, Teachings of Lord Caitanya. So Bhagavad-gītā teaches surrendering process. Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. "You surrender unto Me," the Lord says. And the Lord teachings, Caitanya Mahāprabhu's teaching is how to make surrender. Because we have been accustomed in our present conditional life to revolt against surrender. There are so many parties, so many "isms," and the main principle is that "Why shall I surrender?" That is the main disease. Whatever political party is there... Just like the Communist party. Their revolt is against the superior authority they call capitalists. "Why shall we..." Everywhere, the same thing is, "Why shall I surrender?" But we have to surrender. That is our constitutional position. If I don't surrender to some particular person or particular government or particular community or society or something, but ultimately I am surrendered. I am surrendered to the laws of nature. There is no independence. I have to surrender. When there is call of the cruel hands of death, immediately I have to surrender. So many things. So we should understand... This is brahma-jijñāsā, that "Why there is the surrendering process?" If I don't like to surrender, then I am forced to surrender. In the state also, if I don't mean to abide by the laws of the state, the state obliges me to surrender by police force, by military force, by so many things. Similarly, I don't want to die, but death forces me to surrender. I don't want to become old man, but nature forces me to become old. I don't want any disease, but nature forces me to accept some sort of disease. So this surrendering process is there. Now we have to understand why this is so. That means my constitutional position is to surrender, but the present difficulty is that I'm surrendering to a wrong person. When we understand that I should surrender to the Supreme Lord, then my constitutional position is revived. That is my liberty.
I do not know that my position is to surrender, and that surrendering principle is my life, is my happy life. Just like a small child, if he surrenders to the wishes of the parents, his life is very pleasing, very happy. A young girl, if she surrenders to the wishes of the parents, and... That is the system, Vedic system. A woman, by nature, is dependent. Artificially, if woman wants liberty, then his (her) life is unhappy, her life is unhappy. Therefore Vedic system is... I am not manufacturing, I am speaking authorizedly on the Vedic principle. The Manu-saṁhitā, the law of Vedas, Manu, the master of the humankind, Manu... Manu is the father of the mankind. So he has got his lawbook. That Manu-saṁhitā lawbook is still followed in India so far as the Hindus are concerned. So in that book Manu-saṁhitā, it is stated, na striyaṁ svatantram arhati. He gives the law that woman should not be given independence. Then? What should be the life? The life should be so long she's not married, she must live under the guidance, dependent on the parents. And as soon as she is married, she should live dependent on her husband. And when the husband is gone out... Because according to Hindu system, the husband does not remain at home for all the days, till death. No. When children are grown up, he gives up wife and children and becomes a sannyāsī, just like I have become. I have my children, I have my grandsons, I have my wife still exist... But I have given up all connection. So how my wife is being maintained? Oh, she has got grown-up children. So there is no anxiety. So dependence is not bad if there is dependence on the proper place. No father neglects to look after the comforts of an unmarried girl, of his unmarried girls and boys. According to Hindu system, a father, mother responsibility ceases after he gets the children married, either daughter or son. So much obligation. Then they are free. So dependence, I am speaking on the dependence. So dependence is not bad; surrender is not bad. I have seen practically that woman surrendering to the husband... Still there are so many women in India, they are so happy and their life is so glorious. So we have to learn how things are to be done. Independence, artificial independence is no good always. Practically, we have no independence. I may think of independence, but practically I have no independence. I am servant of my senses. Kāmādīnāṁ kati na katidhā pālitā durnideśa. We are all serving the senses. So where is my independence? I may declare independence from my father, from my state, from my country, from my community, but I am servant of my senses. So where is my independence? So we should know our constitutional position, that in all circumstances we are dependent. Therefore the best method of my perfection of life is to become dependent on God, Kṛṣṇa. That is the solution of all problems. And Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that. Try to understand your constitutional position and be surrendered to God, to Kṛṣṇa. Then you'll be happy. Very simple thing. The moment you surrender unto God, immediately you become happy. Mām eva ye prapadyante māyām etāṁ taranti te.
So our, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not very difficult either to understand or to execute. Simply we shall be willing to do this. That's all. That willing is in your hand. If you like, you can accept it. Because you have got little independence to accept something or reject something. That independence you have got. And by rejecting something good, we are in distress, and accepting something good, we are happy. So this acceptance and rejection is in your hand. So here is the offering, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, by great authorities, by Lord Kṛṣṇa, by Caitanya Mahāprabhu, and we are humble servants only. We are simply distributing. We have not manufactured a new type of religious sect or method of philosophy. No. It is very, very old system, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Simply we are trying to distribute in a process which can be accepted by the people in general. So our request to you all who are present here or who are not present here, that you try to understand this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, and if you do not understand immediately, if you kindly associate with us, put your questions, try to understand... We don't say that you blindly accept it. Put your question, try to understand, read our literature, and you'll understand. There is no doubt about it. And you'll take to it. And if you take to it, you'll be happy. In other processes... Just like a political creed. Unless it is nationally accepted... Just like there are so many political parties in every country. Everyone is trying to bring in the forefront the party politics because the leader cannot be successful unless the whole country accepts his philosophy, his party. But Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice that it does not require that a community or a nation or a family or any group has to accept, then you will be happy. No. Individually, if you accept. If your family does not accept, if your community does not accept, if your country does not accept, it doesn't matter. You will be happy. But if your family accepts, if your community accepts, if your nation..., you will be more happy. So... Because it is absolute, independent, so any person takes to Kṛṣṇa consciousness will be happy immediately. So we invite you. We have got classes, we have got different branches in different cities, we have got books, we have got magazines, and we try to convince you by our morning and evening classes. So my humble request to you all that you try to understand. Caitanyer dayā kathā karaha vicāra. We put for your judgment to understand. We put this Kṛṣṇa consciousness before you for your judgment. And if you scrutinizingly see and try to understand, then you'll feel, "Oh, it is so sublime. It is so nice." That is our request.
Thank you very much. (devotees offer obeisances) So you have got any question, you can put. You have got any question? That girl. Anyone, if you have got any question.
Jaya-gopāla: Prabhupāda? How do we explain to impersonalists inductively the existence of the Personality of Godhead?
Prabhupāda: This example I have given you several times. Just like you try to understand the sun. This is daily affair. Now when you try to understand what is this sun, you first of all come to the sunshine light. If you are covered with cloud and if you have not known what is sun, that is a different thing. Or even if it is covered, you can go up to the over the cloud and see the sunshine and sun. So the cloud is compared with māyā. So sun is compared with the kingdom of God, and the president of the sun planet is God. This is example. God is far away and He's the greatest. He has created so many millions of suns. But I am giving that example. Now to study the sun, first of all you come to the sunshine. The sunshine is distributed all over the universe, and the sun planet is situated in a localized place. And within the sun planet, there is the predominating deity who is called sun-god. But if you want to study all these things, first of all you come to the sunshine. The sunshine is impersonal. Similarly, there is a transcendental rays from the planet where Kṛṣṇa, or God, is there. Just a few minutes before I recited one verse from Bhagavad-gītā that na tad bhāsayate sūryo [Bg. 15.6]. That means it is illuminating. There is no need of sunshine. Just like this planet is not illuminating; therefore we want light from the sun, from the moon, from electricity. But Bhagavad-gītā says that the planet of the Lord, there is no... Why planet? The sky. There is no need of sunshine. Every planet in the spiritual world is illuminating. So because every planet is illuminating, the whole spiritual sky is dazzling illumination. So one who approaches that dazzling illumination called brahmajyoti, they are called impersonalists. Is it clear?
Jaya-gopāla: But how does one show such an impersonalist with absolute proof logically? I was told Śrīla Bhaktivinoda has such a proof.
Prabhupāda: Apart from Bhaktivinoda, try to understand in your common sense.
Jaya-gopāla: Yes, I can see this.
Prabhupāda: Just like sun planet, there is sunshine. The sunshine is impersonal, but if you have got power to enter into the sun globe, then you will find there, there are so many persons, they have got fiery body. It is not a fact in other planets there is no life. That is a nonsense. Every planet there is life, but they have got different situation, different atmosphere. The moon planet is very cold. Even the modern scientists, they agree that the temperature in the moon planet is below two hundred degree zero. So it is very cold. Similarly, sun planet is very hot. Similarly, there are other planets which is made of air, some planets made of water. These five elements, earth, water, air, ether, this is the, these are the ingredients of material world. So some planet is made of something, some planet is made of something. But this earth is made of earth only, and water. So in the sunshine you see, you go by airplane, go in the "friendly sky" above the... You see everything impersonal. Simply glaring sunshine, that's all. But that does not mean it is impersonal. There are many planets within the sunshine, millions of planets, but you cannot see. Similarly, persons who cannot see beyond the brahmajyoti, the transcendental rays of the spiritual sky, they are impersonalists. They are impersonalists. But one who goes to the transcendental planets, Vaikuṇṭhas, Goloka Vṛndāvana, they see God is there person. As you are person, I am person, you'll find person.
So it is poor fund of knowledge only that these conclude that the ultimate Absolute Truth is impersonal. No. Because Vedānta says, Vedānta-sūtra says, janmādy asya yataḥ [SB 1.1.1]. The Supreme Absolute Truth, or Brahman, is that from whom everything generates, everything is born. Now, everything is born. Then you have got personality, I have got my personality, everyone has got personality. How you can think of Him that He is not person? We have got experience that a father is person, therefore his son is also person. So if we are born of the supreme father, then if we are person, how He can be imperson? It is simple reason. But His personality is different, our personality is different. Īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1]. His body is different, sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ. His power is different, His potency is different. Different means that is all spiritual. The difference of spiritual matter we can understand that spirit is the basic principle of movement of matter. Because the spirit soul is within this body, therefore it is moving. Because the spirit soul is there within this body, therefore it is growing. So spirit soul is the basic principle of all material expansion. Similarly, God being full spirit, whole spirit, He is the basic principle of all cosmic manifestation, but He is person. These things are there in the Bhagavad-gītā, you'll read. Arjuna says that "It is very difficult to understand Your personality." People are bewildered, but He is person. And in the Kaṭha Upaniṣad and many other Upaniṣads it is said, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām: (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13) "He is the chief eternal amongst all eternals." That means we living entities, we are also eternals, but He is the chief eternal. So if we are persons, then He is also person. In the Bhagavad-gītā also, the Lord says that "Myself, yourself, My dear Arjuna, and all these kings and soldiers who have come here, assembled here, they are all persons. They were all persons in the past, they are persons at present, and they will continue as persons in the future." These things are there. So individual soul or God, every one of us is person. Each and every one of us—person. Imperson is another feature of the person. Just like the same example. In sun planet there is person, the predominating deity, and his personal effulgence is the sunshine. The sunshine is imperson, but the planet is localized, and the predominating deity is person. The Bhagavata confirms it, brahmeti paramātmeti bhagavān iti śabdyate [SB 1.2.11]. The Absolute Truth is one. Just like the sun, the sunshine, and the deity within the sun, that is one unit. But some portion is called sunshine, some portion is called sun planet, some portion is called the deity. Similarly, the Supreme Brahman is one. His person, His localized position, and His influence and energy, they are one. This is the śuddhādvaitavāda, pure monism. The Śaṅkarācārya's philosophy is monism, one, and Śrī Rāmānujācārya explains, "Yes, one—unity in diversity." So this is unity. The sun deity, the sun planet and the sunshine is one unit, but still, there is diversity. The division of the sunshine is different from the sun planet, the sun planet is different from the predominating deity in the sun planet. If you try to understand this way, then you will understand what is Paramātmā, the Supersoul; the individual soul; the impersonal Brahman; the personal Brahman—everything. Is that clear? So any other question? Yes?
Upendra: Prabhupāda, can you explain mahāmāyā and yogamāyā? Was Arjuna under yogamāyā or mahāmāyā?
Prabhupāda: Arjuna, when he was thinking in terms of his personal sense gratification, he was under mahāmāyā. And when he agreed to execute the order of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, then he's under yogamāyā.
Upendra: How is it Arjuna, if he was eternally liberated...
Prabhupāda: Because he is living entity, he is marginal. There is chance of... Marginal means... I have explained several times. Just like the land. Between the ocean and the land, there is a portion of land which is sometime merged within water, sometimes it is land. So a living entity's position is like that, marginal energy. He may be under the influence of yogamāyā or he may be under the influence of mahāmāyā. When he is under the influence of mahāmāyā, that is his conditional life. And when he is under the influence of yogamāyā, he's free. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (kīrtana) (end)

Seattle, October 9, 1968
Prabhupāda: Why don't you sit on the chair if you feel inconvenient? I'm asking you. You can sit down on the chair. That's all right? Hare Kṛṣṇa. (chants) Govindam ādi-puruṣam tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. (devotees respond)
(repeats, devotees respond) So we are worshiping the ādi-puruṣa, the first person. Generally, in grammatical knowledge, first person means "I." Here, first person means "the Supreme Lord," ādi-puruṣa, the original person, not the first person, original person. The original person is in the original planet. There is the original planet. Just like here the original planet, scientists accept the sun. Similarly, the sun is also one of the millions of many other suns. There are millions of sun. So sun, in the estimation of this universe, is the original planet. But there are innumerable universes, and in each and every universe there is a sun. So therefore there are innumerable sun and moons. That is accepted by the modern science, and it is stated in the Vedic literature also. So sun is not the original planet, but the original planet is called Goloka Vṛndāvana. But the sun has similarity. Just like the sun is shining, the shining planet, and on the sunshine there are other planets, they are moving by the heat of the sunshine in their orbit. So similarly, sun is also moving. According to modern science, sun is fixed up, but according to Vedic literature, sun is also moving.
In the Brahma-saṁhitā we understand the movements of the sun:
The meaning of this verse is that "I worship the Supreme Personality of Godhead Govinda, asya ajñayā, by whose order this sun, which is considered to be the king of all planets..." Sun is the king of all planets. That is a known fact. Without sun, all these planets, they cannot live. Without sunshine, their life will be extinct. Therefore sun is described in the Brahma-saṁhitā, rājā samasta-grahāṇām, of all the planets. And aśeṣa-tejāḥ. Aśeṣa-tejāḥ means unlimited heat, fire. Unlimited fire. Nobody knows what is the source of this fire, but there is unlimited fire. Some ninety-three millions miles away from this planet, still, the heat is sometimes unbearable. Just see what is the fire. And it is so many times, fourteen hundred thousand times bigger than this planet, earthly planet. So Brahma-saṁhitā says in spite of the sun's so many, I mean to say, high qualification, it is moving under the order of Govinda. Yasyājñayā bhramati sambhṛta-kāla-cakro. It has got its own orbit, it is moving, kāla-cakro. Kāla-cakro means limited. Nobody is unlimited. Just like we are also moving within the time limit, kāla-cakra. So the planet, this planet is moving, other planet is moving. Similarly, the sun planet is moving. Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, I think if I am not mistaken, the speed of the sun is sixteen thousand miles per second, but it is moving. Sixteen thousand miles per second it is moving. So Brahma-saṁhitā gives us this information. Yac-cakṣur eṣa savitā. Savitā means the sun planet. Yac-cakṣur eṣa. This savitā, the sun, is considered to be the eyes, one of the eyes of the Lord. In His universal form the sun is considered to be one of the eyes of the Lord, and the moon is also another eye. Take it figuratively or universal form of the Lord, but you cannot escape the seeing power of Govinda. He is seeing always. There are so many witnesses according to Vedic literature. So we cannot do anything hiding from the eyes of the Lord. He is seeing. He is witness. And that is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā: upadraṣṭā anumantā. Upadraṣṭā. Upadraṣṭā means overseer. Overseer.
Now in our childhood... Not childhood. We were at that time college student, Scottish Churches College in Calcutta. So that is Christian college, Scottish Churches. So we had to read Bible also. There was a Bible class from 1:00 to 1:30. So I remember our professor, he was a great philosopher also, Dr. W.S. Urquhart. He was very nice man, very friendly. So he was explaining from Bible. I do not know... The Christians, they do not believe in karma. Is it a fact? They do not believe in karma?
Govinda dāsī: They have a verse that "You reap what you sow," which means whatever you do, you receive the reaction of. It's sort of...
Prabhupāda: So... But karma is accepted? But I do not know. Dr. Urquhart was arguing that if I am suffering or enjoying as the effect of my previous life, so who is the witness? His argument was like this. Just like if I have committed some criminal act, in the court there is need of witness. Then one has to prove that somebody has seen that he has done this. This is simply a legal formality. Who is going to steal while keeping one witness? Nobody's going, but court wants that who has seen that he has stolen. Anyway, Dr. Urquhart's argument was that "Who is the witness? I am suffering the reaction of my previous bad or evil activities, but who is the witness?" But at that time we were not so intelligent. We could not answer. But later on, when we were grown up and studied Bhagavad-gītā, then here, in the Bhagavad-gītā, we saw that upadraṣṭā. The Lord is upadraṣṭā, He is witness. Upadraṣṭā. Anumantā. Anumantā means ordering. You cannot do anything without being sanctioned by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. You have no power. Therefore we are, in all respect, we are dependent. That we have got very nice experience. This hand is moving, but if the power is withdrawn, I cannot move my hand. Therefore I am not independent to move my hand. So upadraṣṭā anumantā. We cannot do anything without being sanctioned by the Supreme Lord. There is an English word, that not even a grass moves without the sanction of the Lord. So that is a fact. So how one is doing nice thing and how one is doing evil things if He is the order giver? That is our independence. We can take sanction from the Lord. If we want to do something evil, I cannot do it without the sanction of the Supreme. Or even if I do something very nice, that also I cannot do without the sanction. So how the Lord gives such sanction? The sanction is like this: just like a child is crying to get something from the parent, and the parent, being disgusted, gives him something, "All right. Take it." Such kind of sanction. When we do something evil, the sanction is from the Lord, but it is not willing sanction. Against the will of the Lord. And when you do something in cooperation with the Lord, that is called bhakti. We are doing everything... In the material world we are doing everything, all nonsense for sense gratification. There is also sanction of the Lord, but that is unwilling sanction. But when we execute devotional service, loving devotional service, that is very pleasing to the Lord.
So the bhakti-yoga means acting by pleasing the Lord. That's all. That is the verdict of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. You are not forbidden to do this thing or that thing, but you have to see only whether by your action the Supreme Lord is satisfied. That's all. That much knowledge you must have. Then your life will be successful. The Śrīmad-Bhāgavata says,
Ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā. This verse was spoken by Sūta Gosvāmī, who was speaking before a very learned gathering at Naimiṣāraṇya. It is the system of Vedic system, that... Not Vedic system; everywhere, all over the world. Any civilized society there is nice speaker, learned speaker, and many persons hear him. That is the system from very old time. So Sūta Gosvāmī, he was representative of Śukadeva Gosvāmī, the speaker of Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and he was addressing very learned brāhmaṇas. So he's addressing, dvija-śreṣṭhā. Śreṣṭhā means the, I mean to say, picked-up, the topmost of the brāhmaṇas. They were topmost of the brāhmaṇas; still, they require knowledge. Knowledge is so nice that even if you think that you are very learned, you are well versed in everything, still, you require knowledge. That should be our motto. Don't think that "I have finished." Caitanya Mahāprabhu has taught this lesson in His life, that He represented Himself as a fool. So everyone should think of himself that "I am still a fool." Just like it is said that Sir Isaac Newton... He was such a learned man, but he used to say that "I have simply collected a few grains of sand from the beach of knowledge." Knowledge is so vast that his knowledge was simply a few grains of the vast amount of sand of knowledge. So everyone should think like that. Caitanya-caritāmṛta kaj, the author, he says that "I am lowest than the germs in the stool. I have no knowledge." So the more you become advanced in knowledge, you'll know that how insignificant you are in comparison to the Supreme. Yes.
So although they were learned brāhmaṇas, or dvija... Dvija means not only brāhmaṇas, but the kṣatriyas or the vaiśyas. Kṣatriya means ruling class, administrative class, politicians. They are called kṣatriyas. And brāhmaṇas means learned scholar in philosophy, in science, in theology, they are brāhmaṇas. And kṣatriyas, and vaiśyas... Vaiśyas means traders, mercantile people. And śūdras means worker, laborer. So the brāhmaṇas and the kṣatriyas and the vaiśyas, they are called dvija. Dvija means twice-born. The śūdras, those who are once born simply by the father and mother, they are called śūdras. They are not counted amongst the higher class. But those who are twice-born. That means once born by the father and mother, and the second birth is the spiritual father and Vedic knowledge. Once born by this material bodily father and mother, and the second birth is Vedic knowledge, the mother, and the spiritual master, the father. So that is second birth. So second birth, those who accept the second birth, they are called dvija, twice-born. So he is addressing dvija. Ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā: the topmost of the twice-born. Topmost of the twice-born means brāhmaṇa also, or these three classes. Take it for granted that the brāhmaṇas. But the next line is, ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ. There are four kinds of classification: the brāhmaṇas, the kṣatriyas, the vaiśyas, and the śūdras, and... This is called varṇa. And āśrama, āśrama means spiritual situation: the brahmacārī, the gṛhastha, the vānaprastha, and the sannyāsī. They are spiritually situated. So anyone, either a brahmacārī or a brāhmaṇa or a kṣatriya or anyone, he will fall down in either of these eight divisions of human social order. So Sūta Gosvāmī said that anyone, that means anyone, must have some occupation. Varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ. If you are engineer, then you have got some occupation. If you are medical man, you have got some occupation. If you are a philosopher, you have got some occupation. If you are laborer, worker, you have got some occupation. Even if you are a thief, you have got some occupation. So everyone has got occupation. So just see how nice it is. So Bhāgavata says, it doesn't matter what is your occupation, but simply try to see whether by your activities or a particular type of occupation you have satisfied the Supreme Lord. That's all. Then,
Hari-toṣaṇam: that your perfection of life will be considered in relation with the satisfaction of the Supreme Lord. That you have to learn, how you are satisfying the Supreme Lord.
Now at the present moment, immediately... We were, of course, taking Arjuna and Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa was present before Arjuna. So he was receiving direct order, He was speaking directly. But if somebody says that "How I can know that I am satisfying the Supreme Lord, because the Lord is not directly present before me?" this argument is not a very strong argument. The Lord is present by His words. Just like in your Bible, there are ten commandments. So if you follow... Just like the state is present by the lawbooks. If you follow the law, then you are satisfying the state. Just like "Keep to the right." If you are following the rules, you are keeping your car on the right side, you are stopping when there is red light, that means if you are satisfying the regulation, then you are satisfying the state. Similarly, if you satisfy the regulative principles, then you are satisfying the Lord. It is very nice. It is very simple thing. But you must try to satisfy. Whether by your work, by your activity, you have satisfied, then your life is perfect. Ataḥ pumbhir dvija-śreṣṭhā varṇāśrama-vibhāgaśaḥ, svanuṣṭhitasya. It doesn't matter whatever you are doing, but you have to see whether by your action the Supreme Personality of Godhead is satisfied.
Now, to facilitate these activities of the human being, there is spiritual master. Spiritual master is the representative of God. Therefore Vedic literature says, tad-vijñānārtham. In order to understand whether God is being satisfied or not, tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12], one must approach a spiritual master in order to know. Because my life is meant for satisfying God, but understanding that God is not present in my front, I cannot see Him face to face, how can I know that He is satisfied or not? But there are books, scriptures, literatures. Apart from that, the Vedic injunction is that tad-vijñānārtham. In order to understand whether your action or activities has pleased the Supreme Personality of Godhead, you have to take information from the guru, or the spiritual master. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet. Abhigacchet means "must." And in the Viśvanātha Cakravartī's prayer for the spiritual master, this is also said: yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasāda. The last version of his prayer is yasya, "whose"; prasādāt, "satisfaction"; bhagavat-prasāda, "the Supreme Lord is satisfied." This is the test. If by your action... Because when you accept a spiritual master, then you have to work under his guidance. There are so many, I mean to say, rules and regulation. But ādau gurvāśrayam. The first thing is to accept a spiritual master. And if you have got a bona fide spiritual master, then it is to be understood that you have approached God because he is His representative. And if you act according to his direction, then it is to be understood that you are satisfying the Lord. This is the way, Vedic way. Yasya prasādād bhagavat-prasāda yasyāprasādān na gatiḥ kuto 'pi. If you cannot find out a bona fide spiritual master or if you cannot satisfy the bona fide spiritual master, then you must know you do not know where you are going. Na gatiḥ kuto 'pi. Therefore Viśvanātha Cakravartī says, dhyāyan stuvaṁs tasya guṇārṇavasya vande guroḥ śrī-caraṇāravindam. This is the process.
So we, we should make this our goal of life, how to satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. This is the real purport. We chant this, that we are trying to satisfy the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Govinda. Yasyājñayā bhramati sambhṛta-kāla-cakro. There are so many verses of this govindam ādi-puruṣam, the Brahma-saṁhitā. And Bhagavad-gītā also, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam also. So there is immense knowledge of understanding. It is a great science, science of God. So if anyone is interested about understanding the science of God, then he should take seriously this movement of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Now one may question, "Why should I be interested to understand the science of God? Why not to understand the science of so many material things? Why one should be..." No. This is the necessity. That is the Vedānta's injunction. Athāto brahma jijñāsā. This is the opportunity. This human form of life is the opportunity to understand the science of the Absolute. Either you say God or Absolute Truth or the Supersoul, the same thing. But this life is meant for understanding. If we miss this opportunity, we do not know where we are going. The defect of the modern civilization is they don't care. Hedonism, Cārvāka's theory. There was, long, long before, there was an atheist philosopher. As there are many atheist philosophers nowadays, in former days also. He was known as Cārvāka Muni. According to his opinion, he says that don't care for next life. Don't care. Bhasmī-bhūtasya dehasya kuto punar āgamano bhavet. He says... Because according to Vedic system, the body is burned after death. As you bury underground... There are three processes everywhere. Somebody throws away for being eaten up by birds, or somebody puts within the ground, or somebody burns it. So Cārvāka Muni says that "After burning this body, who is coming and who is responsible? You see. You live merrily as far as possible. Ṛṇaṁ kṛtvā ghṛtaṁ pibet. If you have no money, then borrow or steal, but live very nicely for sense pleasure." That is Cārvāka Muni's theory, and mostly, at the present moment, that theory is being followed. But the question is that Cārvāka Muni says there is no next life. What is the proof? Does it mean that his word is proof that there is no next life? Then everyone will say something. Of course, that is being accepted. Anyone discovers or says something nonsense, it is accepted.
But the process of Vedic understanding is not like that. You have to accept knowledge from the authority. Therefore the Vedic system has rejected the Cārvāka Muni. He has no authority. He is authority himself. He says that there is no life, but what is the proof? But there are many proofs that there is next life. So who will accept Cārvāka Muni's theory? Nobody. No sane man will accept. And suppose if there is life. There are two philosophers: one says that there is no life, other says there is life. Now we have to study both, if there is life and if there is no life. But if there is life, the next answer to Cārvāka theory, if there is life, then if I'm working irresponsibly, then I am becoming victim to my next life. So there are... But we have to take from the authority. Just like the Bhagavad-gītā says that na jāyate na mriyate kadācin: "The soul is never born and never dies." Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre: [Bg. 2.20] "Even after the annihilation of this body there is no destruction of the soul." And soul is migrating in different species of life. So we have to take Kṛṣṇa the authority, Veda-Vyāsa the authority. There are many such authorities. So there is next life. There is no doubt. The practical proof there is... And Kṛṣṇa has given many proof. I have spoken in this meeting many times. There is next life. So we should be responsible. This human form of life should not be wasted simply for sense gratification. That sense gratification facility is in every... Even in the cats and dogs, there is that facility. By nature it is already arranged. But the special qualification of this human form of life is to know himself, and to try to understand that "Why I am in miserable condition? Wherefrom I have come? Where I have to go? What is God? What is this world?" This is called Vedānta. Vedānta means to understand all these things.
So Veda means knowledge and anta means the last stage of understanding. So last stage of understanding is Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam or Vedānta. So our request... Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that we are requesting everyone that you do not spoil your life in pursuit of sense gratification like animals, but think that this life is very responsible life. You try to understand yourself, what you are, why you are put into this miserable condition of material existence, if there is any remedy. There is remedy. So we must take advantage of it and make our life successful.
Thank you very much. Any question?
Young man: If our first concern should be to serve God, or Kṛṣṇa, then why should there be a movement...
Prabhupāda: Because you do not know.
Young man: Well, you do it... You're telling people out of...
Prabhupāda: Certainly. Kṛṣṇa also tells. Kṛṣṇa tells. Kṛṣṇa comes Himself.
Young man: But you might get so caught up in the movement that you're forgetting about you're serving God. Is this...
Prabhupāda: Why? I am serving God. This movement means I am serving God. What do you mean by serving? If Kṛṣṇa says that "You obey Me," and if I say that "You obey Kṛṣṇa," is it not service?
Young man: Yes.
Prabhupāda: If your father says, "My dear boy, you obey me," and if your oldest brother says, "My dear brother, you obey father," is it not service to the father? So we are doing the same business. Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: [Bg. 18.66] "You give up all other engagements, just surrender unto Me. I shall give you protection." And we are saying the same thing, that you surrender to Kṛṣṇa and you'll be happy. So we are voluntarily giving service to Kṛṣṇa; therefore it is service. Preaching work is the best service, if you preach rightly. If you preach wrongly, that is disservice. You have to simply say the same thing as Kṛṣṇa has said. Kṛṣṇa has said that sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja: "You simply surrender unto Me." So we have to say the same thing, that "You simply surrender unto Kṛṣṇa." Then it is all right. If I add something by my concoction, then it is not service. If I say, "You don't serve Kṛṣṇa. You serve me. I am God," then I am going to hell. We have to say, "You serve Kṛṣṇa." I have no right to accept any service from you, but I can accept anything on behalf of Kṛṣṇa. That is the spiritual master position. So what is your question?
Young man: The movement might get in the way of serving Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is service of Kṛṣṇa. Because... You have understood. What Kṛṣṇa wants, we are preaching the same thing.
Young man: Was there always a kind of a movement?
Prabhupāda: Yes, the movement is always there. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said,
yadā yadā hi dharmasya
glānir bhavati bhārata
abhyutthānam adharmasya
tadātmānaṁ sṛjāmy aham
[Bg. 4.7]
He says, "My dear Arjuna, whenever people are misguided and there is too much manifestation of irreligiosity, at that time I appear Myself." So this movement... This material world is such that suppose one thing is now set right, but still, the time is so cruel, after some time it will be distorted. This is the way of material existence. Therefore movement is required. Whenever there is deterioration of the real truth, there is necessity of movement. But the same movement, not a new movement. The movement means God is there, He is great, we are all subordinate; therefore our duty is to abide by the order of God. Then we are happy. The movement is very simple. There is no misunderstanding. The same movement was preached by Lord Kṛṣṇa. The same movement was preached by Lord Jesus Christ. The same movement we are also preaching. So there is no difference: simply accepting the authority or the greatness of the Supreme Lord and engage ourself. That's it. There is nothing new. You don't try to see something new. It is not new. It is the oldest because God is oldest, you are oldest, and your relationship is also oldest. Therefore the movement is also oldest. You cannot manufacture anything new. People are after something new. What new you'll have? Everything is old. The sun is old, the world is old, the moon is old, the atmospheric change is also old, the seasonal change is... What is new there? Millions of years ago there was sun, and still the sun is there. At that time the sun was hot; still it is hot. At that time people were dying; people are still dying. So what is new? It is simply waste of time for manufacturing something new. A concoction. There is nothing new. The old law is doing... History repeats itself. That is well known to everyone. So our movement is not new. It is the same movement, that you accept the supreme authority of God or Kṛṣṇa. That's all. This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. But the process adopted is suitable for this time. That is also not new, not manufactured. It is recommended that in this age... Just like during winter season the process is to protect your body from being affected of cold. So that process is not new. Similarly, in this age... This age is called Kali-yuga. So it is recommended, kalau tad hari-saṅkīrtana, where God realization is only possible by this chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. Simple process. You come on. Sit down. It doesn't matter what you are, whether you are Indian or you are American, or Christian, or Hindu, or man, woman, black, white. It doesn't matter. You simply come, chant Hare Kṛṣṇa and realize God. Because in this age very severe method cannot be followed. The people are so fallen that even four principles we have ordered, that "Don't take meat, don't have illicit sex life, don't participate in gambling, and don't," I mean to say... What is the other?
Govinda dāsī: Intoxication.
Prabhupāda: Intoxication. Oh, it is very difficult. Why they avoid Kṛṣṇa consciousness? Just like our friend Allen Ginsberg, he says, "Swamijī is very conservative." And so many friends, they ask me, "Swamijī, why you impose these rules?" You see? The people are so unable. Their inability is so strong that these four principles only... You want sex life? All right. We say that you get yourself married. But that is also difficult. Intoxication? Nobody has learned smoking from the beginning of his life. It is simply by association. So if you associate with us, you'll forget smoking, drinking. It was learned by association, you can forget it by association. No child used to eat meat from the very birth. It was milk. So this is all artificial, the so-called conventions of human society. Natural life does not allow all these things. So by good or bad association you have acquired so many artificial, I mean to say, habits. So simply by association you can forget also. Then you come to the pure life. And God is pure. Just like without being heated, you cannot stand in a place which is very heated. The temperature must be the same. This is known to everyone. So God is pure. You cannot approach God being impure. So the whole process of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is purificatory process. Hṛṣīkeṇa hṛṣīkeśa-sevanaṁ bhaktir ucyate [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Hṛṣīka, hṛṣīka means senses, and Hṛṣīkeśa means the master of the senses, the Lord of the senses, Kṛṣṇa. So by engaging your senses in the service of the master of the senses, that is called bhakti. Now, how you can do that? Tat-paratvena nirmalam. You have to simply purify. Then it is easily possible. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to adopt the purificatory process, and then you have got natural engagement in the service of the Lord, your life is perfect. Yes?
Young man (2): You mentioned that it was natural for a child to drink milk and not eat the meat of an animal. And you stressed natural. Is it natural for a child to grow up and then shave his head and serve God, or is it just a form of socialization?
Prabhupāda: No, it is natural. Because he is fond of his mother, fond of his father. So we should be fond of our, the supreme father. That's all. It is natural. No child you can see, he's not fond of his father and mother. When he's grown up, when he associates with his friends, he tries to forget his father and mother. But at the beginning... Oh... The other day I was citing the example, naturally, our natural affection. Father's affection is there, mother's affection is there, child's affection is there. So father, mother never forgets the affection, but child forgets by bad association. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa does not forget us, but we have forgotten. So this process is to revive our natural position to love Kṛṣṇa. Now we are unnatural, in unnatural condition, forgetting Kṛṣṇa. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to bring back everyone to his original consciousness, affection, love between the child and the father. And that is the best service to the society. Suppose a child... Nobody is greater than God, and we are all children of God. Therefore we are children of the richest man, because who can be richer than God? Who can be powerful than God? And we are sons of God. So... But we have forgotten. Just like a boy, from his childhood he has left his home, very rich father. Loitering in the street, he has no sufficient food, sufficient clothing. So somebody sees, "Oh, this boy belongs to that rich man. He is living in such wretched condition." So the best service to that boy is to bring back to his father. Not that "My dear boy, I know that you are very rich man's son. You have now forgotten. You have no proper eating. I am giving you a morsel of bread. You eat it." That is also a service. But the best service is to bring him back to his rich father. Similarly, people are trying to serve the human society by so many morsel of food. That's all. And we are trying to bring back to his father. Therefore Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the best service to the humanity, because his all problem will be solved as soon as he goes back to his father. No more problem. Therefore everyone should take seriously about this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. Yes?
Young man (3): I saw a card last night which said, "The International Society for Krishna Consciousness, Inc." A friend of mine asked me why the word "Incorporated"?
Prabhupāda: Because you want it.
Young man (3): Pardon?
Prabhupāda: Because you want it incorporated. Your state wants it. Your state means you.
Young man (3): The Washington state government.
Prabhupāda: Yes, government wants it. You cannot be revolting against the government. (chuckling) You have to live keeping pace with the government. We are in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That does not mean we shall not use this electricity, we shall not take an apartment or we shall not sleep. Something unnatural we have to do. Why? Everyone abides by the law. We have to abide by the law. There is no difficulty. And government provides that religious society or this society, they should get themselves incorporated so that it is recognized. In so many activities they want to know whether this society is recognized. So we have to take all these measures. We cannot go out of the purview of the general rules and regulations.
Young man (4): The sādhus in India who have long hair and wander in the woods and stuff, I guess, do they have spiritual teachers? The sādhus in India. The ones who live in the forest and places like that? You know? Wander around...
Prabhupāda: Of course, those who are living in the forest, there is no barber. Naturally they have got long hairs. But why the sādhus in the city imitate them? There is no meaning. If a man is living in the forest, there is no facility of the barber. So he can keep long hairs. Why in the city?
Young man (4): No, I didn't mean the hair. I meant does a sādhu who lives in the woods, does he have a spiritual master or...
Prabhupāda: Oh, yes.
Young man (4): How does he live in the woods without a spiritual master and learn?
Prabhupāda: No. In the woods also there are many saintly persons. People go there, accept spiritual master, and live with the spiritual master. But that is not very much convenient in this age. So in this age nobody is going to the forest to find out spiritual master, but the spiritual master has to come and canvass from India to New York. (laughter) This is a different position. Yes?
Young man (5): You said that everybody who has laws should live under them. Does an individual have a right to choose his own laws?
Prabhupāda: Yes. Just like when you go pass "Keep to the right," you have got the right also to go to the left. But as soon as you go to the left, you are criminal. That's all.
Young man (5): But taking one of the commandments of the Christian Bible, "Thou shall not kill," and applying that to a federal law or our American scriptures, there you have two laws that are not stemming from the same law, with different interpretations...
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: The law in the Bible says, "Thou shalt not kill." But the federal law of the United States says you must go into the Army and kill. So which to follow? There is a difference. They both say opposite things.
Prabhupāda: Yes. The thing is... It is very simple to understand that... Just like a soldier is killing and the state is awarding him medal. And the same soldier when comes home, if he kills somebody, he's hanged. Why? He can say, "When I was in the war field, I have killed hundreds of men and I was given gold medal. And now I have killed simply one man I am going to be hanged? Why?" So it is the cause. If the cause if great, then killing is no sin.
Young man (5): How does one interpret if the cause is great?
Prabhupāda: By satisfy... That I have already explained. Saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam [SB 1.2.13]. You have to see whether God is satisfied. That cause is great. Perfection of your activity will be judged whether by your action God is satisfied.
Young man (5): But you say that the way we hear from God is through words. And if these words are printed by the men that are making you fight, that's by the men that are making you fight. I have no assurance that it's the word of God unless every movement is God movement. Therefore...
Prabhupāda: No, I don't say this movement or that movement. The general principle is that if you think by certain type of fighting God is not satisfied, then you should not fight. But if in some fighting God is satisfied, then you should fight. We do not say anything outright that this is bad or this is good. We say, anything that has given satisfaction to God, Kṛṣṇa, that is good. Anything which has not given satisfaction to Kṛṣṇa or God, that is bad. Now you have to judge yourself how Kṛṣṇa is satisfied. That requires training; that requires understanding. But the standard of... The same example, that the same state, the same man, when he was fighting in the battlefield, he was being elevated to higher position, rewarded. But same man coming back from the battlefield, he has killed somebody, some of his neighbor, he's hanged. But the same state is there. But man is there, the action is there, the same, but why the judgment is different? Similarly, we have to satisfy the great, and the greatest of the great is God, or Kṛṣṇa. If by your action Kṛṣṇa, God, is satisfied, then it is all right. I don't say that this fight is good, that fight is bad. Fight or no fight. Even without fighting, he may be bad. Just like the instruction which we get from Bhagavad-gītā, Arjuna was denying to fight and he was considered by Kṛṣṇa bad, because He was not satisfied. This is the evidence. And when Arjuna decided to fight to satisfy Kṛṣṇa, it was taken as good. So whole thing should be tested, judged, by the satisfaction of the Supreme Lord. Saṁsiddhir hari-toṣaṇam [SB 1.2.13]. The perfection of any action... In the material world, "This thing is good," "This thing is bad," that is our mental concoction. Everything is bad here. Everything is bad. We have simply manufactured by our own imagination that "This is good," "This is bad." But to keep pace with the human society or peace in the human society, there is necessity of doing or adopting something which is approved by somebody, or the state. That is different thing. That is material. But actually at the ultimate end, as we have cited the quotation from Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, good or bad means satisfaction or dissatisfaction of the Lord. If any action is approved or gives satisfaction to the Lord, that is good. If any action gives dissatisfaction to the Lord, it is bad. That is the general. Now you have to adopt yourself in the service of the Lord in such a way that you can know that this action is giving satisfaction and this action is not giving satisfaction. Then your life is all right.
Viṣṇujana: Then all our faculties of perception will be purified by adopting this Kṛṣṇa consciousness, and we can understand.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Kṛṣṇa consciousness means purification of all faculties. Because the faculties work on the basis of consciousness. If your consciousness is pure... Just like I am seeing. I am not seeing; my mind is seeing. So if my mind is pure, then my seeing is pure. Similarly, if my consciousness is pure, my mind is pure. It is superficial. I am moving my hand. I am not moving; my mind is moving. So all the senses, ten senses... And the central sense is mind. And behind mind, there is intelligence, and behind intelligence, there is consciousness. This consciousness, if purified, then whole thing is purified. If this consciousness is polluted, then the whole thing is polluted. So we have to purify the consciousness. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Viṣṇujana: So then a man who is not, does not have a purified consciousness has no way of knowing what is good or bad.
Prabhupāda: No. He is illusioned. Māyā. That is called māyā. He is accepting something bad as good. Just like one is accepting this body as self. The whole world is moving, accepting this body as the self. Dehātma-buddhi. But I am not this body. That's a fact. So it is illusion. Yes?
Young man (1): You referred earlier to some proofs of after-life. And I came in late. So I don't know if you've mentioned it earlier, but I wonder are these available in writing in English, and do people here know of them? That is, where would I look at such a thing?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He wishes to see proof of after-life, either in writing or he wants to know if there is something...
Prabhupāda: After-life proof?
Young man (1): I'm interested in that idea. What proof is there, and is it available in English so that I could read it and study it and examine it carefully?
Viṣṇujana: Is it available in writing.
Madhudviṣa: He wants to read it in a book, something that explains the validity of the statement that there's an after-life.
Prabhupāda: Read Bhagavad-gītā. You study Bhagavad-gītā, you'll understand everything.
Young man (1): That's sixty-eight volumes?
Prabhupāda: No.
Young man (1): How many volumes?
Prabhupāda: Bhagavad-gītā is one volume only, eighteen chapters. So it is not very... Seven hundred verses. You can read it in three days. It is not very difficult. So we have published Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, and I think if you read, you'll get so many nice informations. And after reading Bhagavad-gītā, you read Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. Then you get further enlightenment. Then you read Teachings of Lord Caitanya, you get further enlightenment. And for general information we have got this Back to Godhead. You can read. So we have got sufficient literatures. It is not that simply we are talking. We are backed by sufficient knowledge and literatures. Yes?
Young man (6): It has been suggested that perhaps the battlefield in the Bhagavad-gītā is the battlefield of Arjuna's mind, and Kṛṣṇa is trying to push him to go into battle against the forces of his senses, as characterized by Duryodhana. What do you think about that?
Prabhupāda: That means you think that battlefield is an imagination?
Young man (6): Well, that that, the battlefield is symbolic of Arjuna's mind, and that the forces that Kṛṣṇa is...
Prabhupāda: Who is Kṛṣṇa? Who is Kṛṣṇa? Suppose Arjuna is talking with Kṛṣṇa. Then who is... Mind is Kṛṣṇa, you mean to say?
Young man (6): No. I mean to say that if the battlefield is symbolic of...
Prabhupāda: What is... You give the example, "This is this symbol," "This is this symbol." What is the symbol of battlefield? That you do not know?
Young man (6): Are you saying that it should be taken literally?
Prabhupāda: No, no. What is your idea? You are putting question. Are you clear in your question? Or you are simply questioning without any clear idea? What is your position?
Young man (6): You mean what am I asking?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Young man (6): I'm asking if the battlefield in...
Prabhupāda: Why you are asking that? Why that question is in your mind, the battlefield is imaginary?
Young man (6): Because that's what I read, and I wondered...
Prabhupāda: That means you are misled. You have no read very nicely.
Young man (6): Don't you think that perhaps it could be symbolic?
Prabhupāda: No.
Young man (6): Men have written...
Prabhupāda: No. Not at all. (laughter) You have to... If you present symbolic, then you should give, "This is the symbol of this. This is the symbol of this." What is the symbol of battlefield? (pause) That means you are misled. Don't study all these nonsense. You'll be misled. Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gītā as it is. The battlefield, Kurukṣetra-Kurukṣetra. It is dharmakṣetra-dharmakṣetra. PāṇḍavaPāṇḍava. We have explained in that way. Not that we have accepted battlefield is this or that. No.
Young man (6): But men have written with symbolism, pointed things out through symbolism all through the ages.
Prabhupāda: No. Why? Do you think any historical fact are symbolism?
Young man (6): Pardon me?
Prabhupāda: If there is historical facts, do you take it as symbolism? Suppose somebody is describing the World War number two. Is it symbolism?
Young man (6): (laughs) Well, I suppose not.
Prabhupāda: Then? So similarly, this Bhagavad-gītā is described in the history of India, Mahābhārata. So how you can take it symbolism? Mahābhārata is the history. Mahā means great; great history of India, Mahābhārata. It is historical fact. How you can take a symbolism? Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā... [break] ...verse is dharma-kṣetre kuru-kṣetre [Bg. 1.1]. [break] the battlefield. That Kurukṣetra is still lying in India from very old time. So how you call it symbolism? And it is dharma-kṣetra. In the Vedic literature the injunction is kuru-kṣetre dharmam ācaret. And still people go to Kurukṣetra for religious, performing religious rituals. Still they go. That Kurukṣetra battlefield is there. It is being treated as the place of pilgrimage. How you can say that it is symbolic? This is all nonsense. Historical facts is still being, I mean to say, followed. The Pāṇḍavas, that is historical. Still there is one old fort. People say this fort belonged to the Pāṇḍavas. The Indraprastha, New Delhi is called Indraprastha. Everything is historical. How you take symbolical?
Young man (5): Possibly every action is from a law of Kṛṣṇa, and law is that which pleases Kṛṣṇa. And from some act within His mind or within... I'm not sure what he was talking of there (?) because if it was in the mind, it was projected into history to please Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: What is his question?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says something about Kṛṣṇa has something in His mind; therefore it becomes factual. He projected it from His mind, and thus it became history.
Young man (5): No. No. Not that He projected it, but people trying to please Kṛṣṇa did it through misinterpretation.
Prabhupāda: You have to please Kṛṣṇa.
Young man (5): Yes.
Prabhupāda: Not trying, but if you don't please Kṛṣṇa, then you are in difficulty. That is your position. It is not Kṛṣṇa's interest. It is your interest. Just like if you want to live peacefully, you have to please the state. There is no question that by pleasing the state, by yourself, the state becomes very enriched. It is for your interest. If you please the state, then you can live very peacefully. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa is full in Himself. He's great. He does not require your, some action so that He may be pleased. He's pleased already. But if you please Him, then you are happy. That is your interest. Yes?
Young man (6): Don't you think that since there are people of different temperaments, different kinds of people, that... How should I say it? Don't you think that by denying rāja and jñāna and some of the other yogas that you're denying the infinite aspect of mankind? Don't you think that by asserting bhakti-yoga as the only way that you're saying that...
Prabhupāda: Yes. Infinite aspect. We are publishing one article, "Dr. Frog." Dr. Frog means... Perhaps you know, everyone. The frog lives in a well. That is only a few feet. And one, another frog, he's giving information to his friend in the well, "My dear friend, I have seen a vast water, Atlantic Ocean." But this frog has never seen Atlantic Ocean. He's calculating, "It may be so much big. It may be so much big. It may be so much big." So how this infinity can be calculated by the frog? So those who are calculating infiniteness of this tiny soul, they're all Dr. Frogs. You are not infinite. You are finite. How you can be infinite? You can be infinite only when you dovetail yourself with the infinite. Individually you are finite. That is the position, real position. In the Bhagavad-gītā in the Fifteenth Chapter... You have read Bhagavad-gītā? So did you not read this verse in the Fifteenth Chapter, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ jīva-loka sanātanaḥ [Bg. 15.7]? Have you read this? That "These living entities, they're My parts and parcels, fragmental parts." So you are... God is infinite. You are infinitesimal part and parcel. So how you can be infinite?
Young man (6): I mean that the aspects of... Well, you said yourself that there are people of many different temperaments, many different kinds of people.
Prabhupāda: But there must be one standard temperament. What is the standard temperament? You may have different views of something, but there must be some standard view. We are not concerned with the different views of different persons. We have to accept the standard view.
Young man (6): What's that?
Prabhupāda: That Kṛṣṇa.
Young man (6): Well, but don't you think that perhaps bhakti-yoga isn't the way for everyone?
Prabhupāda: Yes.
Young man (6): That for some people other yogas would apply more to their...
Prabhupāda: Yes. That is in the preliminary stage. Just like the same example, that you have to go... In New York that Empire State Building, 102 story. So everyone is going to the top, but somebody has passed ten steps, somebody has passed twelve steps, somebody has passed twenty. But there may be thousands of steps. So one who has gone to the top, he has passed all the steps. Similarly, there are different process of yogas—karma-yoga or jñāna-yoga... They are divided into three. All these three yogas are described in the Bhagavad-gītā, karma-yoga, jñāna-yoga, dhyāna-yoga and bhakti-yoga. But you'll find the yoginām api sarveṣāṁ. When yoga is described in the Sixth Chapter, you'll find the Lord says, yoginām api sarveṣāṁ: "Of all the yogic process," yoginām api sarveṣāṁ madgatenāntarātmanā [Bg. 6.47], "one who has taken Me within himself," śraddhāvān bhajate yo mām, "and with faith and love is engaged in My service, he is first-class yogi." So the first-class yogi are all these Kṛṣṇa conscious boys and girls. First-class yogi. Because they're always thinking of Kṛṣṇa within. And that is recommended by Kṛṣṇa, the author of all yogic principles. He's called Yogeśvara, the master of all yogic principles. So He said that "Here is a first-class yogi." Who? "Who is thinking always within himself Me, Kṛṣṇa." Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatenāntarātmanā śraddhāvān: "With faith and love," bhajate, "he's engaged in My service." Sa me yuktatamo mataḥ. "He is the first-class topmost yogi." So all yogic process must culminate in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. So anyone who has accepted Kṛṣṇa consciousness, he is supposed to be the first-class yogi. Actually, what is the ultimate end of yoga? The meaning of yoga is " 'contact." Contacting whom? The Supreme. Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme. So one who has contacted Kṛṣṇa, he is the highest yogi. [break] If somebody says that "I am incarnation of God," then why you cannot say that you are incarnation of God? What is the difference?
Young man (6): Well, I think the difference is that Ramakrishna was accepted in India as...
Prabhupāda: No, not in India. Don't say like that.
Young man (6): He wasn't?
Prabhupāda: No. Rāma was accepted as incarnation. Kṛṣṇa was accepted as incarnation. In every home, there is Rāma and Kṛṣṇa worship. Not this Ramakrishna. Neither any ācārya accepts him. If Ramakrishna... He said himself that "One who was Kṛṣṇa, one who was Rāma, I am the same." So his disciple accepted. Vivekananda accepted. But in that way, if somebody dies, he says, "One who was Kṛṣṇa, one was Rāma, I am," his sons accept. That is not the way of. There must be proof. Kṛṣṇa is accepted by Vyāsadeva, by Nārada, by Caitanya, by Rāmānuja, by so many great scholars, stalwarts. Therefore Kṛṣṇa is accepted by all Indians as God. And He has proved Himself, His activities. There is Vedic proof, scholarly proof, authority proof. There are so many things. And people... There are thousands and millions of temple of Kṛṣṇa worship in India, and how many temples they have got Ramakrishna?
Young man (6): Well, Ramakrishna is pretty recent also.
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa, because He's old, therefore people have taken? People forget old things. Why they are adhering to the old things? At Vṛndāvana only, one place, there are five thousand temples of Kṛṣṇa. Only in Vṛndāvana. So this is all propaganda. We have to test who is incarnation, who is not, by the authorities.
Young man (6): And who are the authorities?
Prabhupāda: Vedic literatures. Lord Buddha is accepted as incarnation in the Vedic literatures.
Young man (6): What about people that have come since the Vedic literatures?
Prabhupāda: What is that?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He says what about people who have come since the Vedic literatures, since the time the Vedic literatures were written. What about them?
Prabhupāda: Vedic literature is not written. It is before the creation. Vedic, Vedas, before the creation. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, there is statement, tene brahma hṛdā. Brahmā is considered to be the first created living entity, so he learned Vedas from within, from the Supersoul. Tene brahma hṛdā. So Vedic literature is not written at a certain time. It is coming. It is called apauruṣeya. It is not man-made. So you have to study very scrutinizingly, then you will understand. Thank you for your questions. Now chant. An incarnation has to be accepted by the evidence of Vedic literature, by his activities, by his features, and by authorities. There are so many things. Not that if somebody says, "I am incarnation," and therefore I become incarnation. No. Not in that way. If somebody comes here and says, "I am President Johnson," so any sane man will accept him simply because he says? And if somebody accepts him blindly, then he's a fool. Oh, he must... He says. Let us test whether he is bona fide, his credentials, how he is President Johnson. So we cannot accept even a man. How can we accept God without credentials? What is the credential of Ramakrishna that he is incarnation of God? These things are to be considered. Not that because Vivekananda accepted, therefore one has to accept. What is the credential? What is the proof? What is the extraordinary work? Lord Rāma is accepted God. There are so many extraordinary work. Kṛṣṇa is accepted as God. He has got so many extraordinary work.
Young man (6): Well, I don't know that much about Ramakrishna.
Prabhupāda: All right. Yes?
Young man (5): If we can believe the Beatles, you are not the only wise man to come out of the Indian hills to New York. What do you know of this Maharishi Yogi that has become so world famous, and what could you tell us of his teachings by way of comparison?
Prabhupāda: He's famous amongst the fools. He's not famous for me. (laughter)
Young man (5): Is he famous in India?
Prabhupāda: No. He cheated some fools because they wanted to be cheated. That's all. And he finished his business. After befooling, then he retired. That's all. Because you want to be cheated, some cheap method of become God immediately.
Young woman: Is it better to inquire directly a question to the spiritual master directly, or is it better... Is it better to wait for the answer to come in an indirect, or in a less direct way? Is it better to...
Prabhupāda: No. You should find out a spiritual master. Everyone should find out. That is the injunction of the Vedas. Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum eva... [MU 1.2.12]. [break] If you are interested to understand the spiritual science, then you must find out. That is your business. All right. It is past ten, uh, nine. No? Yes. Now chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. (kīrtana) Come here. I'm asking you, come here. Come here. (end)

Seattle, October 11, 1968
Prabhupāda: (chants) Govindam ādi-puruṣam tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. (devotees respond, repeats several times) Thank you very much. So all newcomer students, you are welcome. Thank you very much. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement, we are worshiping the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the supreme leader. Human society cannot work without leader. Anywhere you go, any country, any nation, any society, any community, any family, there is a leader. So the Vedas instruct that there is a supreme leader. Nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām eko bahūnāṁ vidadhāti kāmān (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). This (is) very important mantra in Kaṭha Upaniṣad. You have heard the names of Upaniṣad. They are Vedic literatures. Originally, the Veda was one, Sāma Veda. Then it was divided into four, Sāma Veda, Atharva Veda, Ṛg Veda, Yajur Veda. Then the Vedas verses were explained in Upaniṣads. There are 108 Upaniṣads. Then the whole conclusion was made shortened, cream. That is called Vedānta-sūtra. And again, this Vedic knowledge was, I mean to say, compiled in simple way for understanding of less intelligent class of men. That is called Mahābhārata. And in the Mahābhārata there is one chapter which is called Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā is only a chapter of the great history of India, Mahābhārata. And then Vedānta-sūtra is described in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. So Vedic literature is very old. Nobody can trace out the history. So far we understand, it is not man-made. It is coming out from transcendental world by disciplic succession.
So in that Vedic literature this is, this verse is there, nityo nityānāṁ cetanaś cetanānām (Kaṭha Upaniṣad 2.2.13). A leader, the supreme leader of all living entities—God, or whatever you say, the Absolute Truth, the Absolute Person. Generally, we say God. God is also a person like you and me. Just like whenever you find out some leader, he must be a person. Impersonal cannot be leader. Is there any instance... In the modern history they have abolished monarchy, personal government. They have got democratic government or republican government. But still, they have to find out a president. Why? Why not without president? No. That cannot be done. There must be one leader. Any movement, any organization, there must be. And he must be a person. So you can judge from this how God can be imperson? He's person. And Vedic literature informs that He's a person like you and me. And your Bible also says that man is made after God. Not that God is made after man. Your feature, your two hands, two legs, one head, nice eyes, nice face, everything, this is imitation of God's feature. Therefore man is made after God. Not that because we have got two hands, two legs, or one head, therefore artists have imagined a God like us. No. Actually, this version of Bible is truth. Any scripture, there is truth. So the Vedic literatures also say that He is the supreme living entity above all other living entities, every individual living entity. The Bhagavad-gītā, most of you might have seen Bhagavad-gītā. It is clearly stated in the Second Chapter when Kṛṣṇa, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead, was explaining Arjuna, He said that "Yourself, Myself, and all these people, or the soldiers or the kings who have assembled here, they were individuals in the past, they are individuals at present, and they'll continue individuals in the future." So individuality cannot be cancelled. That is not possible. The only difference is, my individuality or Kṛṣṇa's individuality, is that my individuality is limited, but Kṛṣṇa's individuality is unlimited. That is the... Just like you select one person leader because his intelligence is greater than you, something greater than you. Therefore you select somebody as your leader. So in the Vedic literature the definition of God is also there, who is God. Now everyone is claiming, "I am God," but they do not know what is God. They are falsely claiming. But if you find out Parasara-sūtra, there is definition of God. What is that? Aiśvaryasya samagrasya. God is the owner of all wealth, vīryasya, all strength, yaśasaḥ, all fame, all intelligence, all beauty, and all renunciation. These six items in full strength, cent percent possession, that makes the God. So our position is always subordinate according to Vedic literature or any literature. If you reject God, then you will have to select somebody else you will have to worship as God. Take for example Lord Buddha. Lord Buddha's philosophy that there is no question of God, but we are suffering due to this material encagement and combination of matter, this body is combination of matter, and when the matter is dismantled, which is called nirvāṇa, then there is no question of feeling pains and pleasure. That is Buddha philosophy. But there is no question of God there. But fortunately or unfortunately, they are worshiping Lord Buddha. Try to understand that personality cannot be imagined at any circumstance. Somebody has to be found out. So the Vedas gives us the information that you accept the leadership of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Then everything, all questions, all problems will be solved.
So here is... Kṛṣṇa consciousness means to dovetail your consciousness with the supreme leader, Kṛṣṇa. Then you'll be happy (aside:) They are feeling inconvenience while sitting in this way. So we have no arrangement for chairs. You'll please excuse us. It is just developing. (people apparently getting up and leaving)
Govinda: Should we give them prasādam?
Prabhupāda: No. Now you read that article, "Superconsciousness," in the paper.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "Superconsciousness."
Prabhupāda: You can sit down here face to face.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Then I'll turn my back to you.
Prabhupāda: That's all right.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: This is from Back to Godhead, which is a monthly publication that we put out in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There's an article in it called "Superconsciousness," by our spiritual master. "Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the highest yoga performance by trained devotional yogis. The yoga system, as it is stated in the standard yoga practice formula given by Lord Kṛṣṇa in the Bhagavad-gītā and as recommended in the Patañjali yoga discipline, is different from nowadays—practiced haṭha-yoga as it is generally understood in the Western countries. Real yoga practice means to control the senses, and after such control is established, to concentrate the mind on the Nārāyaṇa form of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Śrī Kṛṣṇa. Lord Kṛṣṇa is the original absolute personality, the Godhead, and all the other Viṣṇu forms, with four hands, decorated with conch, lotus, club and wheel, are preliminary expansions of Kṛṣṇa." Should I wait a second? Wait for them to leave?
Prabhupāda: This will go on. They are not comfortably seated.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "In the Bhagavad-gītā it is recommended that we should meditate upon the form of the Lord. For practicing concentration of the mind one has to sit down in a secluded place, sanctified by a sacred atmosphere. And the yogi should observe the rules and regulations of brahmacarya, to live a life of strict self-restraint and celibacy. Nobody can practice yoga in a congested city, living a life of extravagance, including unrestricted sex indulgence and adultery of the tongue. We have already stated that yoga practice means controlling the senses. And the beginning of controlling the senses is to control the tongue. You cannot allow the tongue to take all kinds of forbidden food and drink and at the same time improve in the practice of yoga. It is a very regrettable fact that many unauthorized and stray so-called yogis now come to the West and exploit the learning of the people towards yoga. Such unauthorized yogis even dare to say publicly that one can indulge in drinking and at the same time practice meditation. Five thousand years ago in the Bhagavad-gītā dialogue Lord Kṛṣṇa recommended the yoga practice to his disciple Arjuna. But Arjuna flatly expressed his inability to follow the stringent rules and regulations of yoga. One should be practical in every field of activity. One should not waste his valuable time simply in practicing some gymnastic feats in the name of yoga. Real yoga is to search out the four-handed Supersoul within one's heart and to see Him perpetually in meditation. Such continued meditation is called samādhi. If however, one wants to meditate upon something void or impersonal it will require a very long time to achieve anything by yoga practice. We cannot concentrate our mind on something void or impersonal. Real yoga practice is to fix up the mind on the person of the four-handed Nārāyaṇa, who dwells in everyone's heart. Sometimes it is said that by meditation one will understand that God is seated within one's heart always, even when one does not know it. God is seated within the heart of everyone. He is not only seated within the heart of the human being but he is also there within the hearts of the cats and dogs. The Bhagavad-gītā certifies this with this declaration of the Lord. "Īśvara, the Supreme Controller of the world, is seated within the heart of everyone. He is not only in everyone's heart but He is also present within the atoms." No place is vacant. No place is without the presence of the Lord.
"The feature of the Lord by which He is present everywhere is called the Paramātman. Ātman means the individual soul and Paramātman means the individual Supersoul. Both ātman and Paramātman are individual persons. The difference between them is that the ātman, or soul, is present only in one particular place, whereas the Paramātman is present everywhere. In this connection the example of the sun is very nice. An individual person may be situated in one place, but the sun, even though a specific individual entity, is present over the head of every individual person. In the Bhagavad-gītā this is very nicely explained. Therefore even though the qualities of all entities, including the Lord, are equal, the Supersoul is different from the individual soul by quantity of expansion. The Lord or Supersoul can expand Himself into millions of different forms while the individual soul cannot do so. The Supersoul, being seated in everyone's heart, can witness everyone's activities—past, present and future. In the Upaniṣads the Supersoul is said to be sitting with the individual soul as a friend and witness. As a friend He is always anxious to get the individual soul back to home, back to Godhead. As a witness He is the endower of all benedictions that result from the individual's actions. The Supersoul gives all facility to the individual soul for achieving whatever he may desire, but He instructs his friend so that he may ultimately give up all other engagements and simply surrender unto God for perpetual bliss and eternal life full of knowledge. This is the last instruction of the Bhagavad-gītā, the most authorized and widely read book on all forms of yoga. The last word of the Bhagavad-gītā, as stated above, is the last word in the matter of perfecting the yoga system. It is further stated in the Bhagavad-gītā that a person who is always absorbed in Kṛṣṇa consciousness is the topmost yogi. What is this Kṛṣṇa consciousness? Just as the individual soul is present by his consciousness throughout the whole body, so the Supersoul or Paramātmā is present throughout the whole creation by His superconsciousness. This superconsciousness cannot be imitated by the individual soul."
Prabhupāda: This consciousness formula is very simple to understand. Anyone can understand. Just like this body, so long the soul is there within this body, there is consciousness. Just like so long the sun is visible, there is heat and sunlight. Similarly, so long the soul is there within this body, we have got this consciousness. And as soon as the soul is gone from this body, there is no consciousness. So... But this consciousness, my consciousness, your consciousness is limited within this body. I cannot feel what pain and pleasure is within your body, neither you can feel. Therefore your consciousness is individual, my consciousness is individual. But there is another consciousness, which is all-pervading. That consciousness is able to understand your feelings, my feelings, and everyone's feelings. The same example: The sun is located in one place, but five thousand miles away, you ask your friend where is sun, he will reply that "He is on my head." Similarly, you will say. Any direction. But the sun is one, but he is all-pervading. This is crude example. Similarly, the Kṛṣṇa consciousness means when you dovetail your consciousness with the supreme consciousness, then your life becomes perfect. Just like a motorcar is being driven at fifty miles speed, but a cyclist is going at ten miles speed. But if he catches the motorcar, he'll also have the fifty miles speed immediately. So the superconsciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness is all-pervading. If you dovetail your consciousness, then you get universal feeling. Otherwise it is not possible. The same example. So that is being explained. Read it.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: "This superconsciousness cannot be imitated by the individual soul who has limited awareness. I can understand what is going on within my limited body, but I cannot feel what is going on in another's body. I am present all over my body by my consciousness, but I am not present in any other's body by my consciousness. However, the Supersoul or Paramātmā, being present within everyone, situated everywhere, is conscious of every existence. The theory that the soul and the Supersoul are one is not acceptable because the individual soul's consciousness cannot act in superconsciousness. This superconsciousness can only be achieved by dovetailing individual consciousness with the superconsciousness. And this dovetailing process is called surrender, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness. From the teachings of the Bhagavad-gītā we learn very clearly that Arjuna in the beginning did not want to fight with his brothers and relatives. But after understanding the Bhagavad-gītā, when he dovetailed his consciousness with the superconsciousness of Kṛṣṇa, it was Kṛṣṇa consciousness. A person in full Kṛṣṇa consciousness acts by the dictation of Kṛṣṇa, and so Arjuna agreed to fight the battle of Kurukṣetra. In the beginning of Kṛṣṇa consciousness this dictation of the Lord is received through the transparent medium of the spiritual master. When one is sufficiently trained and acts with submissive faith and love for Kṛṣṇa under the direction of the bona fide spiritual master, the dovetailing process becomes more firm and accurate. At this stage (Kṛṣṇa) dictates from within. From without the devotee is helped by the spiritual master, the bona fide representative of Kṛṣṇa, and from within the Lord helps the devotee as caitya-guru, being seated within the heart of everyone. To simply understand that God is seated in everyone's heart is not perfection. One has to be acquainted with God from within and without, and thus to act in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. This is the highest perfectional stage for the human form of life, and the topmost stage in all yoga systems.
"For a perfect yogi there are eight kinds of superachievements. One can become smaller than an atom, one can become bigger than a mountain, one can become lighter than air, one can become heavier than any metal, one can achieve any material effect he likes—create a planet for example. One can control others like the Lord, one can travel anywhere within or without the universe freely, one can choose his own time and place of death and take rebirth wherever he may desire. But when one rises to the perfectional stage of receiving dictation from the Lord, that is more than the stage of the material achievements above mentioned. The breathing exercise of the yoga system which is generally practiced is just the beginning of the system. Meditation on the Supersoul is just a step forward. Achievement of wonderful material success is also only a step forward. But to attain direct contact with the Supersoul and to take dictation from Him is the highest perfectional stage.
"The breathing exercise and meditation practices of yoga are very difficult in this age. It was difficult even five thousand years ago, or else Arjuna would not have rejected the proposal of Kṛṣṇa. This age of Kali is called the fallen age. At the present moment people in general are short-living, are very slow in understanding self-realization or spiritual life. They are most unfortunate, and as such, if somebody is a little bit interested in self-realization, he is misguided by so many frauds. The only actual way to realization of the perfect stage of yoga is to follow the principles of the Bhagavad-gītā as they were practiced by Lord Caitanya Mahāprabhu. This is the simplest and highest perfection of yoga practice. Lord Caitanya practically demonstrated Kṛṣṇa consciousness yoga simply by chanting the holy names of Kṛṣṇa as they were mentioned in the Vedānta, Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, and many important Purāṇas. The largest number of Indians follow this yoga practice, and in the USA also it is gradually growing in many cities. It is very easy and practical for this age, especially for those who are serious about success in yoga. No other process can be successful in this age. The meditation process in right earnest was possible in the golden age of Satya-yuga, because the people at that time lived for a hundred thousand years on the average. If you want success in practical yoga, take to the chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare, and feel for yourself how you are making progress. One should know for himself how much he is progressing in yoga practice. In the Bhagavad-gītā this practice of Kṛṣṇa consciousness is described as rāja-vidyā, the king of all erudition; rāja-guhyam, the most confidential system of spiritual realization; pavitra, the purest of all that is pure; su-sukham, very happily performed; and avyayam, inexhaustible. Those who have taken to the most sublime bhakti-yoga system, this practice of devotional service in transcendental love of Kṛṣṇa can testify to how they are nicely enjoying its happy and easy execution. Yoga means controlling the senses, and bhakti-yoga means purifying the senses. When the senses are purified they are also automatically controlled. You cannot stop the activities of the senses by artificial means, but if you purify the senses, they are not only kept back from rubbish engagement but also they become positively engaged in transcendental service to the Lord. Kṛṣṇa consciousness is not manufactured by us through mental speculation. It is the injunction of the Bhagavad-gītā which says that when we think in Kṛṣṇa, chant in Kṛṣṇa, live in Kṛṣṇa, eat in Kṛṣṇa, talk in Kṛṣṇa, hope in Kṛṣṇa, and sustain in Kṛṣṇa, we return to Kṛṣṇa without any doubt. And this is the substance of Kṛṣṇa consciousness."
Prabhupāda: Any question?
Young woman (1): I have a question. I would like to know your beliefs concerning who Jesus Christ was.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: She wishes to know what your beliefs are concerning Lord Jesus Christ.
Prabhupāda: Yes. He is representative of God, son of God. That's all.
Young woman (1): Do you believe in the blessed trinity?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Do you believe in the blessed trinity?
Prabhupāda: I do not know what is that.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Father, son, and holy ghost.
Madhudviṣa: Holy spirit.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Holy spirit.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Why not? (laughter)
Young woman (1): Thank you.
Prabhupāda: Yes?
Young man (2): What is the outcome of continuous practice of the chant "Oṁ?"
Prabhupāda: Oṁ is also another form vibration of Lord. Oṁ. That is also accepted in Bhagavad-gītā. So Hare Kṛṣṇa or oṁ, practically the same value, but this is easier. Yes. And because Hare Kṛṣṇa was chanted by Lord Caitanya specifically. Oṁ is generally added (when) just beginning one mantra. That is the Vedic way. Oṁ tad viṣṇoḥ paramaṁ padaṁ sadā paś... Oṁ is also addressing the Lord. Oṁ. And Hare Kṛṣṇa is also addressing. But this is easier and recommended for this age. Otherwise, transcendentally or spiritually, there is no difference.
Young woman (3): What do you believe in reference to Ramakrishna? He was in the Hindu faith.
Prabhupāda: Not Hindu faith. What is your belief of Ramakrishna?
Young man (2): Well, I've read a little about him, and he supposedly...
Prabhupāda: What he is? What you have studied about him?
Young man (2): He was an incarnate of God. He believed in Jesus Christ, he believed in Buddha, he believed in yoga. I just wondered if you had anything to do with him.
Prabhupāda: We have got original Kṛṣṇa. So original Kṛṣṇa includes everyone. Kṛṣṇa, govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **. So if you believe in the original, the categories automatically come. But the categories, under the influence of māyā, becomes different. So if you want to study any person, you have, you must have some standard way of studying. How you have accepted this Ramakrishna as incarnation? What is the authority? Simply suppose if somebody says, "I am incarnation." Will he be accepted? If somebody comes here and says that "I am President Johnson," will it be accepted like that? And if somebody believes in that way, is he very intelligent man? So what is your basis of taking Ramakrishna as incarnation? So far Vedic literature is concerned, we cannot accept. Because in the Bhagavad-gītā it is said, kāmais tais tair hṛta jñānāḥ yajante 'nya devatāḥ [Bg. 7.20]. If somebody is lost of his intelligence, then he worships demigods. What is that?
Young man (2): What do you think of kuṇḍalinī or rāja-yoga?
Prabhupāda: We are practicing the emperor yoga. Therefore rāja-yoga is included there. The Bhagavad-gītā says that,
yoginām api sarveṣāṁ
śraddhāvān bhajate māṁ yo
sa yuktatamo mataḥ
[Bg. 6.47]
Anyone who is always thinking of Kṛṣṇa within himself, he is the topmost yogi. Therefore a person who is in Kṛṣṇa consciousness on the authority of Vedic literature, he is supposed to passed all kinds of yogic principles. What is your understanding of kuṇḍalinī yoga? Do you know?
Young man (2): It's very dangerous.
Prabhupāda: So why do you accept such dangerous thing?
Young man (2): No, I just wanted to know what you thought of it.
Prabhupāda: There is no need of... It is not possible to practice that yoga. Yoga practice... That kuṇḍalinī process of yoga is not possible in this age. It is a very difficult process. So we should recommend not to waste your valuable time following something which is not possible to be done by you. That is our recommendation. But if you have got some hobby, that is a different thing. But it will never be successful. It is very difficult to perform. At the present age, as it is recommended and it is followed, practiced, and experienced, this bhakti-yoga is the only possible way for self-realization. It is made very simple: simply chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma... Anyone can do it. Any part of the world can people practice it, of any age, it doesn't matter, either old, young, or child. We have got many children of our devotees, they are also chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. And many old men like me, they are also chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. And these young boys and girls, they are also chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. So it is universal. And all these boys and girls, they are neither Hindus nor Indians, nor they have any knowledge of Sanskrit. But they easily pick up this Hare Kṛṣṇa and chant and getting the result. So this is the easiest, universal method of self-realization in the present age. Any other practice of yoga system will never be successful. It will be simply waste of time.
Young man (3): May I ask this, Swami, as you said after. Have you yourself reached the superconscious state, or the Christ consciousness state?
Prabhupāda: Why don't you come and sit down here. Yes. What is your question?
Young man (3): I asked, Swami, that you have yourself reached this Christ consciousness or superconscious state and then talked with the Divine.
Prabhupāda: It is not very difficult. You can also do that. It is the easiest process. What Christ consciousness? What did Christ say? That you surrender unto God. Did he say anything more than this?
Young man (3): No, the understanding I had of Christ consciousness was when one's mind reaches the state where he is within all atoms and all the flowers...
Prabhupāda: That we have already explained, that Kṛṣṇa is within yourself, within your heart, within my heart, within the atoms, everywhere. So if Christ thinks also like that, then there is no difference between Christ consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa is also, aṇḍāntara-stha-paramāṇu-cayāntara-stham [Bs. 5.35]. Nothing can move, nothing can act without spiritual touch. That is a fact. So this world, or anything, that is moving, jagat... The Sanskrit name of the world is jagat, "which is moving, making progress." That movement is not possible without the spiritual touch. Just like my body, your body is moving because there is spiritual spark within you, within me. So if you can understand this simple fact, that nothing can move without spiritual power, touch... Just like this watch. This watch is moving. You can say it is machine, but not machine. If I wind, then it will move. Therefore there is spiritual touch. If I don't wind, if I keep it in my box, it will not move. So this simple truth, that without spiritual touch nothing can move, and spirit is God. Therefore you can have immediately God consciousness or Kṛṣṇa consciousness.
Young man (3): Isn't there a difference between... When I say Christ consciousness, to get your mind on the same level as the atoms, and on a higher level, beyond the atoms as pure spirit—are these two levels of consciousness in the atoms and...
Prabhupāda: Actually, there is no two levels. There is only one level. Just like there is one sky, but when the sky is overcast with cloud, you divide the sky: "This is friendly sky, and this is nonfriendly sky." Just like the airlines, they advertise, "Fly in friendly sky." Wherefrom this "friendly sky" comes? The sky is one. But the part of the sky which is covered with cloud, that is unfriendly sky. Similarly, sarvaṁ khalv idaṁ brahma. There is... Without exception, everything is spirit. But the portion of spirit which is covered by ignorance, the cloud of ignorance, that is matter. Just like what is material civilization? All activities minus God. This is material. And as soon as all activities plus God, it is spiritual. So all activities minus God means trouble, and all activities plus God is wholesome, is pleasing. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness means all activities plus God. That's all. We are also doing the same thing. The candle is burned here, you also have candles at your home. You have got your apartment; this is also apartment. What is the difference between this apartment, your apartment? Because here is relationship of Kṛṣṇa. So you make everything in relationship with Kṛṣṇa, it is spiritual. That is the technique you have to learn in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Actually, there is nothing but Kṛṣṇa consciousness, but artificially we have covered Kṛṣṇa consciousness with something else, which is called māyā. So you have to get out of this māyā consciousness and stand in your original Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then your life is perfect. That is being taught. There is nothing artificial, neither extraordinary, neither a very difficult thing. It is very plain and simple.
Young man (4): Is there a regression at all in your system of reincarnation? Can we... What I mean to say is, can a man regress to, if you call it a regression, I don't know... Can a man become, after his body dies, I mean, say, an animal or an insect of some sort?
Prabhupāda: Yes. There are 8,400,000 species of different kinds of life. So, so far my condition is concerned, I am not this body; I am spirit soul. Just I am changing my body even at the present moment. Just like when you were born from your mother's womb, your body was very small. Now it has grown. You were a boy; now you are young. Now you will become old man like me also. That means the changing body. It is simple fact. You are changing. From your childhood body, this body is different. Either you take it that it has grown or either you take it that the body has changed, the same thing. But actually it has changed. So the changing of body is accepted. Therefore it is concluded that when you change this body, you may get another body.
Young man (4): What is it that you take with you? What is the...
Prabhupāda: Just like... I will explain. Now, how this change of body is being done? That change of body is being done according to your mentality. Just like here you have got different dresses, different features, different modes of life, all these boys and girls and ladies and gentlemen who are sitting. Why? Due to different modes of mind. Somebody likes to keep hair, somebody like to cleanse hair. Why? This difference. Difference due to mind. So according to your mind at the time of your death, the position, the status of your mind will give you a next body. So if your mind is God conscious, then you get your body next like God. And if your mind is dog conscious, then you get your body, next body, a dog. So it is a question of training your mind so that at the point of death if you keep yourself Kṛṣṇa conscious mind, then you get as good a body like Kṛṣṇa. This is the whole philosophy. And Kṛṣṇa's body is sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1], full of bliss, full of knowledge, eternal. So we are hankering after eternal body, blissful body, and full of knowledge. That should be the destination. That is our aim. So to fulfill that aim, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness is very nice thing.
Young man (5): When we get the next body does our mind retain much of what is learned in the life before? At least the general principles? Or does it start all over again and live within that body and gain its knowledge through that body?
Prabhupāda: No. Death means forgetfulness. Death... Just like when you sleep you forget your day's activities. So sleep is partial death. In sleep also, you sometimes think that you have got a different body, you are floating on the air, or you have gone somewhere which you never seen. So that means the mind is forgetful of the day's activities. It has taken a different activity. Similarly, as soon as the body's changed, the mind is also changed. Mind function is thinking, feeling, and willing. So we feel, think, and will according to circumstances. Just like now you have got an American body, you are thinking like American. I have got an Indian body, I am thinking like Indian. Similarly, a dog has got a dog body, he's thinking like a dog. So mind changes also according to the position of the body.
Young man (6): Is it possible through Kṛṣṇa consciousness to, in the supreme state, to be able to remember all that you were?
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is possible. If you come to the supreme state, you can remember. That is also possible. Because there are instances... One King Bhārata, he died thinking of a deer, so he got his next body as a deer. But he remembered that "I was such and such person." There are sometimes report in the newspaper that a child is dictating that "I have got my home there," and when he goes there he says, "He is my son. Here I kept in this box this thing." Perhaps... There are many instances like that. So that is, exceptional cases it is possible.
Young man (5): One more question. Could you tell me why at times it is dangerous to meditate on concentration on the astral world?
Prabhupāda: Because at the present moment mind is always disturbed, full of anxieties. You cannot concentrate. Therefore this process, chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa, it is forcibly. When you chant, I chant, loudly, at least you hear "Kṛṣṇa," your mind is immediately turned to Kṛṣṇa. So that is meditation. Because after all, meditation means you have to concentrate on the Supreme. The Supreme is nondifferent. Supreme name—Kṛṣṇa and Kṛṣṇa's name, nondifferent. So when you hear Kṛṣṇa, the name, you immediately remember the Kṛṣṇa person, and there is no difference between His name and the person. So immediately you associate with Kṛṣṇa. Forcibly. Even you don't like, I'll chant "Kṛṣṇa," you'll be forced to associate. You will chant "Kṛṣṇa," I'll be forced to associate. This is going on. One devotee is forcing another devotee to remember Kṛṣṇa. And what he'll do by meditation? He'll think of his office or his home or his dog or his cat. That's all. So therefore meditation... Not only at the present moment, even five thousand years ago when Kṛṣṇa advised Arjuna that "You take to this practice," he said, "Oh, it is not possible for me. I am a warrior. I am a politician. I have got to do so many things. How can I concentrate my mind? Kṛṣṇa, excuse me." You'll see in Bhagavad-gītā. But we are trying to be more than Arjuna at the present moment. It is simply waste of time. It is not possible. This is the only process of meditation.
Young man (5): I have known some people who have meditated, and they don't know how to meditate, and they try to meditate, as I say, on the astral, and they contact the incarnate souls in the astral world. And sometimes they get ahold of the wrong one. And when their mind is left open, these spirits or incarnate souls that are not good will take over the mind of a person. Now, how can one avoid this?
Prabhupāda: By Kṛṣṇa consciousness. You can avoid all rubbish things by simply keeping your consciousness in Kṛṣṇa. That's all. It is a very simple thing. Satataṁ kīrtayanto māṁ yatantaś ca dṛḍha-vratāḥ [Bg. 9.14]. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. Those who are great souls, they're always chanting, glorifying the Lord. So there is no opportunity of engaging the mind in something else which is nonsense. We are teaching our student, "Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma..." He is being practiced to this. He cannot avoid it. Even if he goes on the street he'll chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. His samādhi... He hasn't got to attain samādhi; the samādhi is going with him, samādhi. It is so nice thing, and easy. They are not practicing breathing exercise or sitting exercise. No. They are ordinary boys and girls. But simply by chanting they are making practical progress. Their health, their character, their mode of living—everything is increasing, developing. And spiritual advancement means all goodness. It does not mean that a man is spiritually advanced and doing all nonsense. That is contradictory. How pure thing can be impure? Pure is pure; impure is impure. If you say it is impure pure, how it is possible? One is addicted to all nonsense habit and he's practicing meditation and elevating himself. Is it possible? That is all bogus. As soon as one becomes purified, the manifestation of his character, of his mode of life, living, everything will be purified. That is the test. Pareśānubhava. Bhaktiḥ pareśānubhava. Just like if you're cured, then there is no fever. The temperature is at the normal point. And if you say, "I am cured. I am taking medicine, and still, my temperature is 105," that is not possible. So advancement in self-realization means purification from material contamination. That is real advancement. This is practical. Now, how practical it is? In your country, smoking, drinking, taking tea, and keeping boyfriend, girlfriend, liquor, meat-eating, they are common affairs. How they have avoided all these things, within very short time? None of them are associating with me more than one year, and just see their character. It is so practical. You cannot induce them even to smoke. We don't say that you go on with all nonsense, at the same time you become spiritually advanced. We don't talk all this nonsense. There must be practical exhibition that one is advanced in spiritual consciousness. Yasyāsti bhaktir bhagavaty akiñcanā sarvair guṇais tatra samāsate surāḥ [SB 5.18.12]. All good qualities will develop. That is spiritual advancement. That is the test. But it may be due to my past habit I may sometimes commit mistake, I may fall down. But Kṛṣṇa says, śaśvad bhavati dharmātmā. Even if he falls down sometimes out of ignorance, still, he'll very soon become purified. The process is so nice. Just like a fan is moving and make the switch off. Still you will see the fan is moving, but rest assured it will stop because the switch is off. Similarly, a person taken to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, his material life's switch is off immediately. And even though it is seen it is moving, it will stop very soon. So this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement means to put off the switch of material existence immediately. It is so nice. Yes.
Young man (5): Do you think that drugs would help attain the Kṛṣṇa consciousness?
Prabhupāda: It is nonsense. It will not help, but it is nonsense. We don't allow any kind of intoxication.
Young man (5): Does it interfere with the, the soul?
Prabhupāda: Yes. It is artificial. You are already artificially complicated by your, this body, because you have got this body. And you want to make yourself more complicated? And do you mean to say that is advancement? You have to get free. So just like in order to get free from a type of disease one has to take proper medicine and proper diet, similarly, in order to get out of this material contamination, you have to chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. This is the medicine. And you have to take Kṛṣṇa prasādam, the diet. The disease will be cured. Simple method. And it is practically seen. When these boys came to me first, from that time and this time, their face has changed so much. And what I am giving them? These fruits, Kṛṣṇa prasāda, that's all, and chanting. Their mind, their face, their activity, their habit, their character—everything has changed. But what is the process? This medicine and this diet. That's all. There is no surgical operation. It is very simple. You take to it and you see the result. Yes?
Young man (5): What are the good qualities you referred to not too long ago?
Prabhupāda: To become devotee of Kṛṣṇa. That is the greatest quality. We are part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. We have forgotten it. And when we come to understanding that "I am part and parcel of God," that is your greatest qualification. Simple thing. What is the greatest qualification of good citizen? American, when he thinks that "I am American citizen. I have to look after the interest of American state," that is his good qualification, or good citizenship. Similarly, when you transcend all these artificial designations, that "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am this or that..." "I am part and parcel of the Supreme," that is the greatest qualification.
Young man (5): When you succumb to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, or to Kṛṣṇa, do you still have any obligation to, say, the worldly affairs, in making, say, the world a better place?
Prabhupāda: Yes. This is my obligation, to give them education in Kṛṣṇa consciousness. That is the best service I am giving to the humanity. Why I have come to your country? I am old man. Just to fulfill this obligation. So when one becomes Kṛṣṇa conscious he feels obligation very extensive, not limited. He is called mahātmā, very broad-minded. Not cripple-minded. So "I am good, my father is good"—not like that. So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is so nice that it makes your mind broader. Mahātmā. Sa mahātmā su-durlabhaḥ. This exact word is there in the Bhagavad-gītā:
After many lives' cultivation of knowledge, when one comes to the point that Vāsudeva or the Supreme Personality of Godhead is everything, He is the cause of all causes, then he surrenders unto Him. But such kind of surrendering soul is very rare. So in this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement we do not expect that everyone can join, but anyone who joins, it is to be understood that in his previous life he has passed all cultivation of knowledge. Otherwise it is not possible. But if one is... Just like this verse says, bahūnāṁ janmanām ante jñānavān māṁ prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. If one is intelligent to understand this verse, that only a wise man, only one who has become very wise after many, many births; cultivation of spiritual knowledge, he surrenders to Vāsudeva or Kṛṣṇa... So I do not know whether I cultivated knowledge in my past life, but if it is a fact that this is the result of many, many births' cultivation of knowledge, why not surrender immediately and become the most learned wise man? Take the opportunity. One has to become very intelligent. Just like if one man is earning, say, ten hundred millions of dollars by depositing little, little, in the bank, so if somebody offers, "All right, you take immediately ten hundred thousands of dollars immediately," so who will refuse it? So if it is a fact that one comes to this Kṛṣṇa consciousness after many, many births... So, little intelligence required, that "Why not take it immediately? Even I did not cultivate knowledge in my past life, let me take immediately." So this opportunity is offered. Take Kṛṣṇa consciousness. There is no tax. There is no loss. But everything is gained. Try it. At least, make an experiment for week or for fortnight and see. It is not difficult. Simply we must be willing. That's all. Because every one of us are independent. Not fully, little. So we can use our independence, we can misuse our independence. So here is the offering. Take Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Now it is your choice. If you can take, it is good. If you don't take, that is your good will.(?) Is there any difficulty to accept our formula? I ask all of you, is there any difficulty? I am asking this. You have asked so many questions of me. Is there any difficulty to accept this formula?
Young man: No.
Prabhupāda: Huh?
Young man: No.
Prabhupāda: So why don't you take it?
Young man: I have.
Prabhupāda: Thank you. (laughter) It is so simple, nice. Try to understand by your knowledge, question. We are not pushing forcibly. You have got your intelligence, argument, logic, everything. But you'll find it. Caitanyera dayāra kathā karaha vicāra. The author of Caitanya-caritāmṛta says that we are placing it for your judgment. Not that we are pushing it by force, that you have to accept it. Just like sometimes it is said that the Muhammadans, they propagated one hand sword and one hand Koran: "Either you accept Koran or there is sword for you." It is not that. It is placed for your judgment. And if you like, you can accept it. Otherwise, I came here empty-handed, I shall go back empty-handed. There is no loss, no gain. (laughter) So any other question? All right. Then join with Hare Kṛṣṇa. Chant. Upendra will chant. (end)

Seattle, October 18, 1968
Prabhupāda: (sings "Govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi **.'') So we are worshiping Govindam, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the original person. So this sound, govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi, is reaching Him. He is hearing. You cannot say that He is not hearing. Can you say? No. Especially in this scientific age, when television, radio messages are broadcast thousands and thousands of miles away, and you can hear, now why can you...? Why Kṛṣṇa cannot hear your prayer, sincere prayer? How can you say it? Nobody can deny it. So, premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hṛdayeṣu vilokayanti [Bs. 5.38]. Just like thousands and thousands of miles away you can transfer the television picture or your radio sound, similarly, if you can prepare yourself, then you can see always Govinda. It is not difficult. This is stated in Brahma-saṁhitā, premāñjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena. Simply you have to prepare your eyes, your mind in that way. Here is a television box within your heart. This is the perfection of yoga. It is not you have to purchase one machine, or television set. It is there, and God is also there. You can see, you can hear, you can talk, provided you have got the machine. You repair it, that's all. The repairing process is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Otherwise, everything is supplied, complete, complete set of machine you have got within you. And just like for repairing, an expert mechanic required, similarly, you require the help of someone expert. Then you'll see that your machine is working. It is not difficult to understand. Nobody can say that it is not possible. In the śāstra we hear also. Sādhu śāstra, guru vākya, tinete kariya aikya. Spiritual realization can be perfected by three parallel process. Sādhu. Sādhu means saintly persons, who are realized souls, sādhu. And śāstra. Śāstra means scriptures, authoritative scriptures, Vedic scriptures, śāstra. Sādhu, śāstra, and guru, a spiritual master. Three parallel line. And if you place your car or vehicle on these three parallel line, your car will go direct to Kṛṣṇa. Tinete kariyā aikya. Just like in the railway line you see two parallel lines. If they are in order, the railway carriages are carried very smoothly to the destination. Here also, there are three parallel lines—sādhu, śāstra, guru: saintly person, association of saintly person, acceptance of bona fide spiritual master, and faith in the scriptures. That's all. Then your carriage will be going nicely, without any disturbance. Sādhu śāstra guru vākya, tinete kariya aikya.
So here in the Bhagavad-gītā, the Supreme Personality of Godhead explaining Himself, Kṛṣṇa. So if you say, "How can I believe that Kṛṣṇa said? Somebody has written in the name of Kṛṣṇa that 'Kṛṣṇa said,' 'God said.' " No. This is called disciplic succession. You will see in this book, Bhagavad-gītā, Kṛṣṇa, what Kṛṣṇa said, and how Arjuna understood. These things are described there. And the sādhu, saintly person, beginning from Vyāsadeva, Nārada, down to many ācāryas, Rāmānujācārya, Madhvācārya, Viṣṇu Svāmī, and latest, Lord Caitanya, in this way, they have accepted: "Yes. It is spoken by Kṛṣṇa." So this is the proof. If saintly persons have accepted... They have not denied. Authorities, they have accepted, "Yes." This is called sādhu. And because sādhu, saintly persons have accepted, therefore it is scripture. That is the test. Just like... It is common sense affair. If the lawyers accept some book, then it is to be understood that this is lawbook. You cannot say that "How can I accept this is law?" The evidence is the lawyers are accepting. Medical... If the medical practitioners accept, then that is authoritative medical. Similarly, if saintly persons are accepting Bhagavad-gītā as scripture, you cannot deny it. Sādhu śāstra: saintly persons and scriptures, two things, and with spiritual master, three, three parallel lines, who accept the sādhu and the scripture. Sādhu confirms the scriptures and spiritual master accept the scripture. Simple process. So they are not in disagreement. What is spoken in the scripture is accepted by saintly person, and what is spoken in the scripture, the spiritual master explains only that thing. That's all. So via media is the scripture. Just like lawyer and the litigants-via media is the lawbook. Similarly, the spiritual master, the scripture... Saintly person means who confirms the Vedic injunction, who accepts. And scripture means what is accepted by the saintly person. And spiritual master means who follows the scriptures. So things equal to the same thing are equal to one another. This is axiomatic truth. If you have got one hundred dollars, and another man has got hundred dollar, and if I have got hundred dollar, then we are all equal. Similarly, sādhu śāstra guru vākya, when these three parallel lines in agreement, then life is success.
So here Kṛṣṇa is speaking Bhagavad-gītā, mayy āsakta-manāḥ, about the yoga system. He has already concluded in the Sixth Chapter the yoga system. In the first six chapters it is explained what is the constitutional position of the living entity. There are eighteen chapters in the Bhagavad-gītā. The first six chapters explains only the constitutional position of the living entities. And when it is understood... Just like when you understand your actual position, then your activities actually begin. If you do not know what is your actual position... Suppose in the office, if your post is not settled up what duty you have to execute, then you cannot do anything very nicely. Here is a typist, here is clerk, here is a peon, here is a this and that. So they are executing their work very nicely. So one has to understand what is the constitutional position of the living entity. So that is explained in the first six chapters. Adyena śastena upāsakasya jīvasya svarūpa-prāpti-sādhanaṁ ca pradhānaṁ niṁ proktam (?). Baladeva Vidyābhūṣana, a very nice authorized commentator on the Bhagavad-gītā, he says that in the first six chapters the constitutional position of the living entity has been very nicely explained. And how one can understand his constitutional position, that is also explained. So the yoga system means to understand his constitutional position. Yoga indriya-saṁyamaḥ. We are busy with sense activities. The material life means business of sense activities. The whole world activity, when you go stand on the street, you will see everybody's very busy. The storekeeper is busy, the motor-driver is busy. Everyone is very busy—so busy that so many accidents in business. Now, why they are busy? If you minutely study what is their business, the business is sense gratification. That's all. Everyone is busy how to gratify senses. This is material. And yoga means to control the senses, to understand my spiritual position, my constitutional position. Just like a boy who is accustomed to playing only, he cannot concentrate in his study, in understanding his future life, or in elevating himself, a higher position. Similarly, if we are engaged like child without knowing the future of life, simply playing with the senses, that is called material life. The difference between material life and spiritual life is that if somebody is simply engaged in sense gratification business, that is called material life. And out of many thousands of such materialistic persons, if somebody is trying to understand, "What I am? Why I have come here? Why I am put into so many miserable condition of life? Is there any remedy...?" these questions, when arises, then, practically, his spiritual life begins. And the human form of life is meant for that. In animal life they do not know anything except sense gratification. They have no power. Their consciousness is not developed. Just like in the Green Lake park, there are so many ducks. As soon as somebody goes there with some little food, oh, they go gather: "quack! quack! quack! quack!" (laughter) That's all. And after eating, they are enjoying sex life. That's all. So, similarly, like cats and dogs and these animals, the human life is also like that if there is no question "What I am?" If they are simply directed by the sense urges, they are no better than these ducks and dogs.
So therefore, in the first six chapters it has been decided that a living entity is a spiritual spark. It is very difficult to find out where the spark is, because it is so small, minute. There is no material microscope or machine to find out. But it is there. It is there. The symptom is, because it is there in my body, because it is there in your body, therefore you are moving, you are talking, you are planning, so many things you are doing—simply for that spiritual spark. So we are very minute spark of the supreme spirit. Just like there are in the sunshine minute particles, shining particles. With shining, these shining particles, when they are mixed together, that is sunshine. But they are molecules. They are separate, atomic molecules. Similarly, in relationship with God and ourselves, we are also minute particles of God, shining. Shining means we have got the same propensities, thinking, feeling, willing, creating, everything. Whatever you see in yourself, that is there in God. So God cannot be impersonal, because we are all persons. I have got so many propensities—that is very minute quantity. The same propensities are there in Kṛṣṇa, or God, but that is very great, unlimited. This is the study of Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Simply greatness, my position is very small. And we are so small, infinitesimal; still, we have got so many propensities, so many desires, so many activities, so many brain work. Just imagine how much greater brain work and desire and propensities are there in God, because He's great. His greatness means all these things, what you have got, that is existing in Him in greatness. That's all. Qualitatively, we are one, but quantitatively, we are different. He's great; we are small. He is infinite; we are infinitesimal. Therefore the conclusion is, just like infinite particles of fire, sparks, when they are with the fire, they look very nice with fire and sparks. But when the sparks are out of the fire, main fire, they extinguish. No more fire. Similarly, we are sparks of Kṛṣṇa or God. When we associate with God, then our, that illuminating power, fire, is renovated. Otherwise, we are extinguished. Although you are sparks, our present life, this material life, is covered. The spark is covered, or extinguished almost. This is only example. It cannot be extinguished. If it is extinguished, how we are manifesting our living condition? It is not extinguished, but it is covered. Just like when fire is covered, you'll feel heat on the covering, but you cannot see the fire directly. Similarly, this spiritual spark is covered by his material dress; therefore we cannot see. The doctor says, "Oh, the bodily function has failed; therefore heart has failed. He is dead." But why heart fails he does not know. There is no medical science, calculated. They will say so many reasons, that "Because the blood corpuscles, red corpuscles has ceased to function, it has become white; therefore it is..." No. This is not right answer. The blood can be made red... Or redness is not life. There are many natural product which is red by nature. That does not mean there is life. So this argument, that red corpuscles have ceased; therefore life has ceased—no. There are so many arguments and counterarguments.
Actually, this is the fact, because we are speaking on the strength of scripture, saintly persons and spiritual master. That is the way of understanding. You cannot manufacture with your teeny brain, imperfect senses. Human being, they're imperfect, always. Just for example, that a child is seeing the sun, and a scientist is seeing the sun. By nature, the child, their knowledge of the sun is imperfect. The same child, when he takes instruction from a scientist, he can understand the sun is so great. Therefore direct perception of knowledge by our the senses is always imperfect. You have to approach authority—in every sphere of life. Similarly, if you want to understand what is God, then you have to take shelter of this Bhagavad-gītā. There is no alternative. You cannot speculate that "God may be like this, God may be like that," "There is no God," "God is dead," "God is not dead." This is simply speculation. Here Kṛṣṇa says,
If you believe that Kṛṣṇa, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is speaking personally, as Arjuna believed, then you can understand what is God. Otherwise it is not possible. Asaṁśayam.
So the process is, the first process is, mayy āsakta-manāḥ. You have to constantly engage your mind in Kṛṣṇa. That is the yoga process, which is, which we are presenting as Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Kṛṣṇa consciousness... Just like if you constantly join yourself with the electric powerhouse, there is incessant supply of electric energy. Similarly, if you constantly engage your mind in Kṛṣṇa, that is also not very difficult. Kṛṣṇa is all-attractive. Kṛṣṇa is beautiful. Kṛṣṇa has so many activities. The whole Vedic literature is full of Kṛṣṇa's activities. This Bhagavad-gītā is full of Kṛṣṇa's activities. Simply by understanding that God is great, that is neutral state of understanding. But you have to elevate more and more, how great He is. How great He is, it is not possible to understand, because our senses are always imperfect. But as far as possible you can hear about the activities of God, about the position of God, and you can think over it, and you can make your judgment, you can put your argument. Then you will understand without any doubt what is God. The first beginning is, mayy āsakta-manāḥ. In the last chapter Kṛṣṇa has explained that one who is constantly absorbed in the thought of Kṛṣṇa, he is first-class yogi, first-class yogi. In your country the yoga system is very popular, but you do not know who is a first-class yogi. The first-class yogi (is) explained in the Bhagavad-gītā: yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatenāntarātmanā [Bg. 6.47], that out of many, many thousands of yogis, the yogi or bhakta-yogi who is always seeing within himself, within his heart, the form of Kṛṣṇa, he's first-class yogi, he's first class.
So you have to continue that first-class yoga system, and that is explained here, mayy āsakta-manāḥ: being attached. Mind is the vehicle for being attached. If you are attached to somebody, some boy, some girl, some person... Generally, we become attached to a person. Impersonal attachment is bogus thing. If you want to be attached, that attachment must be personal. Is it not a fact? Impersonal attachment... You cannot love the sky, but you can love the sun, you can love the moon, you can love the stars, because they are localized person. And if you want to love the sky, it is very difficult for you. You have to come again to this sun. So yoga system, culminating in perfection, in love... So you have to love somebody, person. That is Kṛṣṇa. Just like here is a picture. Rādhārāṇī is loving Kṛṣṇa and offering His (Her) flowers to Kṛṣṇa, and Kṛṣṇa is playing with His flute. So you can think of this picture nicely, always. Then you (will) become constantly in yoga, samādhi. Why impersonal? Why you something, something void? Void cannot be. If you think something void, there will be something light, something color, colorful, so many things we will find. But that is also form. How you can avoid form? That is not possible. Therefore why don't you concentrate your mind to the real form, īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ [Bs. 5.1], the Supreme Personality of Godhead, the controller, the supreme controller, who has got a body? How? Vigrahaḥ, vigrahaḥ means body. And what sort of body? Sac-cid-ānanda, eternal body, full of bliss, full of knowledge. That body. Not like body like this. This body is full of ignorance, full of miseries, and not eternal. Just opposite. His body is eternal; my body is not eternal. His body is full of bliss; my body is full of miseries, always something troubling me—headache, toothache, this ache, that ache. Somebody is, has given me personal trouble. So many... Adhyātmic, adhibhautic, severe heat, severe cold, so many things. This body is always under threefold miseries, this material body.
So if you think of Kṛṣṇa, that is the process, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Then mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ, if you practice this yoga system, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, how? Mad-āśrayaḥ. Mad-āśrayaḥ means "taking shelter of somebody who is in touch with Me." Mad-āśrayaḥ. Mad-āśrayaḥ means directly in touch with Him. Directly you are in touch with Him as soon as you think of Him, His form. But unless you take shelter of a spiritual master who knows about Him, you cannot concentrate for a long time. It may be temporary. Therefore you have to hear from a person who knows about Kṛṣṇa. Then your concentration of mind on Kṛṣṇa will continue. You have to act according to his direction everything. Your life should be molded in such a way under the direction of the spiritual master. Then you can continue this yoga system perfectly. What is that yoga system? That yoga system explained in the Bhagavad-gītā, in the Sixth Chapter, last verse. Yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatenāntarātmanā: [Bg. 6.47] "One who is always thinking of Me," mad-gata, "He is first-class yogi." In many places it is stated. Premāñjana-cchurita. How you can think of Kṛṣṇa unless you develop love for Kṛṣṇa? Just like Rādhārāṇī. Rādhārāṇī, She has come. She was married, and household life, but She has come to Kṛṣṇa to worship Him. Similarly, we have to place Kṛṣṇa always in our mind, think of Him. Then this very process, mayy āsakta-manāḥ pārtha yogaṁ yuñjan mad-āśrayaḥ, "Under the protection of Myself, of My representative, when you understand samagram, perfectly well, then your life is successful." Asaṁśayam: "without any doubt." Not that because your spiritual master says that "Kṛṣṇa is the Supreme Personality of Godhead." No. If you have got any doubt, just question, just try to understand. It is a fact that He's the Supreme Personality of Godhead, undoubtedly. But if you have got some doubt, you can clear it. Asaṁśayam. In this way, if you practice this yoga system, Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the topmost of all the yoga systems, asaṁśayam samagraṁ māṁ yathā jñāsyasi [Bg. 7.1], then you'll understand Kṛṣṇa, or the Supreme Personality of Godhead, perfectly well, without any doubt, and your life will be successful.
Thank you. (devotees offer obeisances) Any question?
Jaya-gopāla: What is the difference between bhava and prema?
Prabhupāda: Prema is mature condition of bhava. Just like a ripe mango and green mango. Green mango is the cause of ripe mango. But to taste ripe mango is better than unripe mango. Similarly, before attaining love of Godhead, you have got different stages. Just like the same mango, it passes through different stages, then one day it comes nice yellow color, fully ripened, and taste is so nice. The same mango. The mango does not change, but it comes to the mature stage. So this... As this example, the mango is in the beginning a flower, then gradually a little fruit. Then gradually it grows. Then it becomes very tight, green, and then, gradually, it becomes little, little yellowish, and it becomes fully ripe. This is the process of everything. In material world also, there are six processes, and the last process is vanquish.
This mango example or any other material example, we can accept it so far the growth is required, concerned, but material example is not perfect. Just like mango, when it is ripe, somebody eats, that's all right. Otherwise it will overripe, it will decompose, it will fall down, and finish. That is material. But spiritual is not like that. It is not finished. If you once come to the stage of mature stage of love, then that perfectional stage continues eternally, and your life is successful. Premā pum-artho mahān. There are many different types of perfection in this material world. Somebody is thinking, "This is perfection of life." Materialists, they are thinking, "If I can enjoy my senses very nicely, that is perfection of life." That is their point of view. And when they are frustrated, they find out, or try to find out, something better. So if he's not guided, something better means the same—sex and intoxication. That's all. Simply becomes irresponsible. That's all. Because there is no guide. He's finding out, searching out something better, but because there is no guide, he comes to the same sense or sex and intoxication—to forget. A businessman, when he's failure, so much disturbance. He tries to forget him by drinking. But this is artificial way. This is not actually the remedy. How long you can forget? Sleep—how long you can sleep? Again wake up, again you are in the same position. That is not the way. But if you come to the stage of love of Godhead, then naturally you forget all this nonsense. Naturally. Paraṁ dṛṣṭvā nivartate [Bg. 9.59]. If you find out something more palatable, more relishable, you give up nonsense things which is not so nice to taste.
So Kṛṣṇa consciousness is such a thing. It is leading you to a standard where going you will forget all this nonsense. That is real life. Brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannātmā [Bg. 18.54]. As soon as you come that state, then your symptom will be that you are jolly. You are feeling everywhere. There is a... There are many instances. So when you accept this material world in relationship with Kṛṣṇa, you'll taste that love of Godhead, even in this material world. Actually, material world means completely in forgetfulness of God, or Kṛṣṇa. That is material world. Otherwise, if you are in full consciousness of Kṛṣṇa, you'll find only spiritual world, even in this material world. Consciousness—it is all consciousness. The same example. Just like the king and the bug is sitting on the same throne, but the bug knows that "My business is simply to get some blood." That's all. The king knows that "I have to rule. I am the ruler of this country." So sitting on the same place, but the consciousness is different. Similarly, if you change your consciousness to Kṛṣṇa consciousness, wherever you are, you are in Vaikuṇṭha. Wherever, it doesn't matter. Yes?
Guest: I would like you to explain the origin and significance of what you, what they call the Jagannātha car festival.
Prabhupāda: Jagannātha festival significance is that when Kṛṣṇa left Vṛndāvana... Kṛṣṇa was raised by His foster father, Nanda Mahārāja. But when He was grown up, 16 years old, He was taken away by His real father, Vasudeva, and They left Vṛndāvana, Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma, two brothers, and They were resident..., Their kingdom was in Dvārakā. So in Kurukṣetra—Kurukṣetra is always dharma-kṣetra, pilgrimage—there was some lunar, solar eclipse, and many persons from many parts of India, they came to take bath. Similarly, Kṛṣṇa and Balarāma and Their sister Subhadra, They also came in royal fashion, with so many soldiers, and so many..., just like king. So these residents of Vṛndāvana, they met Kṛṣṇa, and especially the gopīs, they saw Kṛṣṇa, and they lamented that "Kṛṣṇa, You are here, we are also here, but the place is different. We are not in Vṛndāvana." So there is a long story how they lamented and how Kṛṣṇa pacified them. This is a feeling of separation, how the inhabitants of Vṛndāvana felt separation from Kṛṣṇa. So this... When Kṛṣṇa came on chariot, that is called Ratha-yātrā. This is the history of Ratha-yātrā. So any pastimes made by Kṛṣṇa, that is observed in ceremonial form by the devotees. So that is Ratha-yātrā.
Guest: How may we recognize yogamāyā?
Prabhupāda: I do not know what is your question.
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: He wants to know how we may recognize yogamāyā, how we may know.
Prabhupāda: Yogamāyā? Yogamāyā means that which connects you. Yoga means connection. When you are being gradually advanced in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, that is the action of yogamāyā. And when you are gradually forgetting Kṛṣṇa, that is the action of mahāmāyā. Māyā is acting upon you. The one is dragging you, and one is pushing you opposite way. Yogamāyā. So, just like the example, that you are always under the laws of government. You cannot deny. If you say, "I don't agree to abide by the laws of government," that is not possible. But when you are a criminal, you are under the police laws, and when you are gentleman, you are under the civil laws. The laws are there. In any situation, you have to obey the laws of government. If you remain as a civilized citizen, then you are always protected by the civil law. But as soon as you are against the state, the criminal law will act upon you. So the criminal activities of law is mahāmāyā, threefold miseries, always. Always putting in some sort of misery. And the civil department of Kṛṣṇa, ānandāmbudhi-vardhanam. You simply go on increasing the, I mean to say, depth of the ocean of joy. Ānandambudhi-vardhanam. That is the difference, yogamāyā and mahāmāyā. Yogamāyā is... Yogamāyā, the original yogamāyā, is Kṛṣṇa's internal potency. That is Rādhārāṇī. And mahāmāyā is external potency, Durgā. This Durgā is explained in Brahma-saṁhitā, sṛṣṭi-sthiti-pralaya-sādhana-śaktir ekā chāyeva yasya bhuvanāni bibharti durgā [Bs. 5.44]. Durgā is the superintending goddess of this whole material world. Everything is going on under his, under her control. Prakṛti, prakṛti is energy. Energy is accepted as feminine. Just like these materialistic persons, they are also working under some energy. What is that energy? The sex life. That's all. They're troubling so much: "Oh, at night I'll have sex life." That's all. That is the energy. Yan maithunādi-gṛhamedhi-sukhaṁ hi tuccham [SB 7.9.45]. Their life is based on the sex. That's all. Everyone is working so hard, culminating in sex. That's all. This is material life. So energy. The material energy means sex. So that is energy. If a person who is working in the factory, if you stop sex, he cannot work. And when he's unable to enjoy sex life, then he takes intoxication. This is material life. So energy must be there. Here in the material world the energy is sex, and in the spiritual world the energy is love. Here the love is misrepresented in sex. That is not love; that is lust. Love is only possible with Kṛṣṇa, nowhere else. Nowhere else love is possible. That is misrepresentation of love. That is lust. So love and lust. Love is yogamāyā, and lust is mahāmāyā. That's all. (long pause) Is that all right?
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Oh, yeah. (soft laughter)
Prabhupāda: So, any other question?
Jāhnavā: Christ consciousness and Kṛṣṇa consciousness, the words are so similar. Please combine the words, explain how the words came to us.
Prabhupāda: That I've explained many times: a pocket dictionary and international dictionary. You cannot say that pocket dictionary is no dictionary, but it is meant for a certain class of student. And international dictionary is meant for a certain class of student. They are all student. Was Christ... What was spoken by Christ, that is also God consciousness, but that was meant for a certain class of men. And what class of men they were? They're not even perfectly civilized. Because Christ was explaining God consciousness, that was his fault, and they crucified him. What class of men they were? Judge. His only fault was that he was explaining God, and they crucified him. The reward was crucifixion. So what kind of class of men they were? The status of that society, just try to understand. Therefore what spoke..., what was spoken by Lord Jesus Christ, for them, that was sufficient. But when Bhagavad-gītā is spoken to a person like Arjuna, that is different thing. So we have to speak according to the time, according to the circumstances, according to the audience. Don't you see that here only a few persons are attending? Why? They cannot understand this Kṛṣṇa science, Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is not meant for all classes of men. It is highest standard of God consciousness. Love. Love of God. So there is also teachings of love of God, undoubtedly. That is the difference. The same thing. Always try to understand. The small pocket dictionary for students while in the primary stage, and international dictionary for higher students, postgraduate students—the both of them are dictionaries. But it is meant for somebody, it is meant for somebody. And the test is phalena paricīyate. Phalena paricīyate, you have to understand. Suppose you are traveling in a forest. So many trees are there. But you cannot understand what is this tree, what is that. But as soon as you see the flower, "Oh, here is apple. Oh, this is apple tree." Just like the other day you were telling me, you never saw apple tree? Yes. Now, as soon as you saw the apple, you understood, "This is apple tree. Oh!" The test of any scripture is how one is developing love of God. Phalena paricīyate. If you find that following some religious principles you are developing your love of God, then it is perfect. It doesn't matter whether it is Bible or Koran or Bhagavad-gītā. It doesn't matter. We have to see what is the fruit. If the fruit is that people are developing love of Godhead, then it is perfect. Don't try to understand whether this is good, this is good, this is bad, this is... No. Try to understand by the result. Just like the same way: if you see the fruit, then it is first class. So it doesn't matter whether it is Bible or Gītā. If you can develop love of Godhead by reading Bible, it is first class, and if you can develop love of Godhead by Bhagavad-gītā, it is first class. And if you do not, then either it is Bible or the Koran or Bhagavad-gītā, it has no effect for you. So it is up to you. Not by comparison, but by your own activities. If you actually follow the instruction given by Lord Jesus Christ, you will also develop love of Godhead. There is no doubt. Similarly, if you follow the instruction of Kṛṣṇa, you will also develop. So it is up to you. You try to follow. If you do not follow, simply try to make a comparative study "This is good" or "This is bad," "This is bad" or "This is good," that is called śrama eva hi kevalam [SB 1.2.8]simply laboring. Why comparative study? Just see how much you are developing love of Godhead, that's all. Phalena paricīyate. "Whether it is apple is there, that's all right; never mind what is this tree. I'm concerned with the apple." Yes.
Upendra: Prabhupāda, sometimes there may be differences between what is love of Godhead between Christian and Moslem, Moslem and Buddhist, Buddhist, Hindu. They may quarrel at what is love of Godhead.
Prabhupāda: The quarrel, they, those who are not in love of Godhead, they must quarrel. That is the... Because they are cats and dogs. You cannot expect any peaceful condition between cats and dogs. They will fight. So whatever they may be, so long they are fighting, that means they are not on the perfectional stage. Where is the fighting? If you love God, then you love everyone. That is the sign. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu mad-bhaktiṁ labhate parām [Bg. 18.54]. After attaining the stage of equality, then you can enter into the realm of loving God. Before that, you have to pass. Just like before entering law college you have to become graduate, similarly, before entering the realm of devotional service you have to realize that all living entities are on the same platform. That is realization. You cannot make any distinction that "This is lower," "This is higher." No. Paṇḍitāḥ sama-darśinaḥ [Bg. 5.18]. When a person is fully learned, he does not make any distinction that "He is human being, he is cow, he is dog." He sees that he is spirit soul covered in different dress. That's all. That is his vision, universal equality vision. You cannot say that dog has no life, the cow has no life. How can you say that there is no life? That is lack of your knowledge. What is the symptom of life? You will find the symptom of life is there in human being, in ant also. How you can say that small creatures, lower animals have no life? That is lack of your knowledge. Even trees, plants, they have got life. So perfect knowledge required. So love of Godhead on the basis of perfect knowledge is real love of God. Otherwise it is fanaticism. So the fanatics, they may fight. That is not love of Godhead. (pause) Of course, it is very difficult to come to that stage, but one should try. That is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. We are all student. We are trying. But there are degrees also. Just like in a educational institution there is tenth class, eighth class, fifth class, sixth class. And with the yoga, it is just like a staircase or a lift. So there are different stages of perfection. The highest perfection is who is always thinking of Kṛṣṇa. That is yoginām api sarveṣāṁ mad-gatenāntarātmanā śraddhāvān bhajate... [Bg. 6.47]. The highest perfectional is Kṛṣṇa, thinking always Kṛṣṇa, and Rādhārāṇī. That is the highest perfectional stage. She has no other business: simply thinking of Kṛṣṇa.
Viṣṇujana: While we are chanting our rounds, or while we are chanting out loud in kīrtana, is it all right to be engaging our mind in thinking?
Prabhupāda: Is it not?
Viṣṇujana: He is already (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: This is practical way? (laughter) If you are not minding, the chanting will force you to mind upon Him. You see? Kṛṣṇa sound will by force. Chanting is so nice. And this is the practical yoga in this age. You cannot meditate. Your mind is so disturbed, you cannot concentrate your mind. Therefore chant, and by the sound vibration, it will forcibly enter it into your mind. Even if you don't want Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa will enter within your mind. By force. (laughter) This is the easiest process. You don't require to endeavor. Kṛṣṇa is coming. (laughter) (Prabhupāda laughs) It is very nice process. This is recommended therefore, for this age. And others also will be benefited. You chant loudly. Others who are not accustomed, they will also. At least... Just like on the street, in the park, they say "Hare Kṛṣṇa!" How they have learned? By hearing this chanting. That's all. Sometimes the children, as soon as they see us, they say "Oh, Hare Kṛṣṇa!" In Montreal the children, when I was walking on the street, all the children, the shopkeepers, the storekeepers, they will say "Hare Kṛṣṇa!" And that's all. So we have forced Hare Kṛṣṇa within the mind. If you practice yoga, meditate, it may be beneficial for you, but this is beneficial for many others. Suppose something very good, you are enjoying yourself, some sweetballs—that is one stage. But if you distribute sweetballs, that is another stage. So by chanting on the road, on the street, you are distributing sweetballs. (laughter) You are not miser, that you are eating yourself. You are so liberal that you are distributing to others. Now chant, distribute. (laughter) (kīrtana) (end)
Lecture to College Students

Seattle, October 20, 1968,
Introduction by Tamāla Kṛṣṇa
Tamāla Kṛṣṇa: Thank you all very much for coming today to hear our spiritual master speak and join us in this saṅkīrtana festival. What we're doing here is searching and seeking after the Supreme Absolute Truth. We are searching after Kṛṣṇa, or God. In this last hundred years or so in this country there's been an increased awareness, consciousness, growing in the people—a need for expanded consciousness. People have been searching for some kind of spiritual realization. And to answer that kind of need there have been many men, so-called holy men or swamis, who have come, from mainly India. This began with Vivekananda. It is coming through this last hundred years, more and more men trying to answer the need of American people especially, for some kind of spiritual growth, spiritual realization. These men, unfortunately, are cheating the public. They are presenting the teachings that everything—all people, all objects, everything—is God, and that to enjoy, enjoy in this world, this is the world to enjoy. To increase your consciousness so that you can enjoy more, that we are all God, that all things are God. This is nonsense. No revealed scriptures ever stated this. All scriptures are in agreement with one single thing: there's a supreme lovable person, the Lord, and it is the business of all entities to develop a love for Him. That is our connection with God. We are part and parcel of the Lord. We are connected to Him but we are not Him. It is our ability.
Our consciousness can be brought to the point where I can develop love for God. This is what our spiritual master teaches, that God is great and He is mighty. He is teaching this, and there is no difference in any scripture. They all teach this. We are in complete agreement with Lord Jesus and the Bible. The Bible too states that the Lord is great, God is great, He is mighty. The differences in Kṛṣṇa consciousness, in the Bhagavad-gītā and the Vedic scriptures which we study in our courses at our temple, is that the Bhagavad-gītā is like this: If there is a young boy who is in the sixth grade and he wants to find out about birds, he'll open a dictionary, a pocket dictionary, and he'll read about birds, and the definition will state that it's an entity which flies through the air. There might be a picture there of a bird. Whereas a person who's studying for a graduate course and doing a thesis perhaps on the different kinds of birds, he needs something more for finding out about birds than just that they fly through the air. He opens an international dictionary. He opens an encyclopedia. He finds out all the varieties of birds, where they fly to, where they nest. He gets all the details about birds. Similarly, for those who are interested in finding out all the details about how God is great, how He is mighty, that is "What does He look like?" "What does He do?" "Who is He?"—you go through the Vedic scriptures. This is not to say that the Bible is nonsense. The Bible is the Absolute Truth. It is Absolute Truth that Lord Jesus taught. But look at the people to whom he taught. They crucified him for teaching about God. He could not teach as great a depth as he would have liked to. He could teach only to the audience that was listening, and yet they still crucified him. These Vedic scriptures, the Bhagavad-gītā which our spiritual master speaks from, is also the Absolute Truth, but it is in all its variegatedness, all its detail. And there's such a need to hear a man like our spiritual master, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami, speak. He is a pure devotee, pure lover of the Lord. That is the qualification for one who can teach about God. He must be one hundred percent engaged in glorifying the Lord, that his every action, every word, must be spent on account of the Supreme Lord. Nothing else.
I had an article sent to us by some Godbrothers from New York. It's really a pertinent article. Very interesting. It's from the Daily News, a big New York newspaper. The heading reads, "Drive and aid(?) retreat for priests who drink." It goes on to say, "Right now there are 5,000 alcoholic priests in the U.S., and the number is growing, according to a spokesman for Guesthouse, a sanatorium dedicated to preventing priests from wrecking their lives." These are the holy men. Now I'm not to say that all priests are like this. That's not at all what I'm trying to get at. But the point is that so many spiritual men in this age are not spiritual men at all. They're cheaters, they're deceivers. They are themselves drunkards. That's the problem that's stated here. It goes on to say that alcoholism is not treated as a moral failure, but as a disease. But that's absurd. It is a moral failure. These priests have the right to drink or not to drink. They chose to drink and get drunk. But these are men that are leading us back to God. The point is, you must have someone who is pure, who does not take any kind of intoxicants, does not smoke, does not gamble, no illicit sex. These are the qualifications. Look to Jesus for example. He was the perfect example. Look to Him, Lord Kṛṣṇa. Look to Śrī Kṛṣṇa Caitanya for example. There are qualifications for a bona fide spiritual master just as there are qualifications for one who wishes to teach you any science that you take in this school. He must pass the examinations. He must be qualified. If his moral character fails, he gets booted out of the school. Similarly, to teach about God, there must be moral qualification. There must be status, and our spiritual master is a living example. He spends one hundred percent of his time in praise of the Supreme Lord. We ask you today, please listen closely and just try to understand his divine teaching. Just listen. Test with your reasoning ability, your intellect. All the knowledge you have gained, test and see whether this is not the bona fide way. Test and see whether this is not Absolute Truth. Now let His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda speak.
oṁ ajñāna-timirāndhasya
cakṣur unmīlitaṁ yena
tasmai śrī-gurave namaḥ
[I offer my respectful obeisances unto my spiritual master, who with the torchlight of knowledge has opened my eyes, which were blinded by the darkness of ignorance.]
This prayer is to the spiritual master. Ajñāna-timirāndhasya. Everyone born in this material world is in ignorance, born ignorant. We should take it for granted, this material world is called tama. The Vedic injunction is tamasi jyotir gamaḥ: "Don't remain in this darkness; come to the light." Actually, this material world is dark. It is lighted with sunlight, moonlight, electric light, this light, that light. Its nature is darkness. That is a scientific fact. So anyone born in this material world, beginning from Brahma, the chief personality in the topmost planet of this universe, down to the ant—everyone is in darkness. Therefore this prayer, ajñāna-timirāndhasya jñānāñjana-śalākayā. Everyone is put into the darkness, and one who opens the eyes by the torch of knowledge... Darkness means without knowledge. So it is the duty of the spiritual master to open the eyes of the person in darkness with torch of knowledge. Ajñāna-timirāndhasya jñānāñjana-śalākayā cakṣur unmīlitaṁ yena. The person who opens our eyes in that way, he is the spiritual master. And one may offer his respectful obeisances unto such personality.
So people should not be put into darkness, but they should be brought into light. Therefore in every human society, there is a sort of institution which is called religious institution. Take it for granted—Hinduism, Muslimism, or Christianism or Buddhism—any "ism" you take—what is the purpose? The purpose is to bring the persons to the light. That is the purpose of religion. And what is that light? That light is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Religion means the codes of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam, dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. Just like in the state, there is king's law. The king gives you some law, and if you are a good citizen, you are to obey those laws, and you live peacefully. This is crude example. Similarly, dharma or religion means to obey the laws of God, that's all. It may be different according to time, circumstances, people. Just like laws in India, the state laws in India may not agree cent percent with the laws of United States. But that does not mean there is no law. And one has to abide by the law. That is the general principle. Similarly, human being, without obeying the laws of God, he is animal. Just like on the street there is signboard, "Keep to the right." A human being obeys the law, "Keep to the right," and if he does not obey, he goes to the police custody. But if an animal disobeys, there is no law for him. So all those laws, all those scriptures, all those religious principles are made for man, not for animals. Therefore a person without religious principles, without God consciousness, is no better than an animal. That is the definition given in the Vedic literature. Āhāra-nidrā-bhaya-maithunaṁ ca sāmānyam etat paśubhir narāṇām. Eating, sleeping, sex life and defense, these four principles are equal, common, in human life and animal life. Dharma hy tasya eka viśeṣa. The distinction of human life and animal life is that a man is searching after God; an animal cannot search after God. That is the difference. Therefore a man without that urge for searching after God is no better than animal. That is accepted fact in every civilized society. Unfortunately, at the present moment, in every state, in every society, they are trying to forget God. Some of them are publicly speaking that there is no God, or if there is God, He is dead, and so on. So this is very precarious condition of the human society.
There is a very nice story. One rat, he was troubled with cat. So he came to a saintly person: "My dear sir, I am very much troubled." "What is the difficulty?" The rat said, "The cat always chases. So I'm not in peace of mind." "Then what do you want?" "Please make me a cat." "All right, you become a cat." After few days, the same cat again came to the saintly person, says, "My dear sir, I am again in trouble." "What is that?" "The dogs are chasing me." "Then what do you want?" "Make me a dog." "All right, you become a dog." Then after few days, again he comes. He says, "I am again in trouble, sir." "What is that?" "The foxes are chasing me." "Then what do you want?" "To become a fox." "All right, you become a fox." Then again he comes. He says, "Oh, tigers are chasing me." "Then what do you want?" "I want to become a tiger." "All right, you become a tiger." And when he became a tiger, he began to stare his eyes on the saintly person: "I shall eat you." "Oh, you shall eat me? I have made you tiger, and you want to eat me?" "Yes, I am tiger. I shall eat you." Oh, then he cursed him, "Again you become a rat. Again you become a rat." So he became a rat.
So our human civilization is going to be like that. The other day I was reading in your—what is called?—World Almanac. In the next hundred years people will live underground like rats. So our scientific advancement has created this atomic bomb to kill man, and it will be used. And we have to go underground to become again rat. From tiger, again rat. That is going to be. That is nature's law. Daivī hy eṣā guṇamayī mama māyā duratyayā [Bg. 7.14]. If you defy the laws of your state and you are put into difficulty, similarly if you continue to defy the authority, the supremacy of the Supreme Lord, Personality of Godhead, then the same result: again you become rat. As soon as there is atomic bomb, everything, all civilization on the surface of the globe will be finished. So people may not like it. It may be very unpalatable, but the fact is like that. Satyaṁ brūyāt priyaṁ brūyāt ma brūyāt satyam abrūyāt. It is social convention that if you want to speak truth, you speak truth very palatable, flattering. Don't speak unpalatable truth. But we are not meant for that purpose, social convention. We are preacher, we are servant of God. We must speak the real truth. You may like it or may not like it, that a godless civilization cannot be happy in any stage. That is a fact. Therefore we have started this Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement to awaken this godless civilization, that you try to love God. This is the simple fact. You have got love within you. You want to love somebody. A young boy tries to love a young girl, young girl tries to love another young boy. This is natural, because the love is there. But we have created certain circumstances that love is being frustrated. Why? Everyone is frustrated. Husband, wife, boys, girls, man to man, states to states, everywhere, the love is not being utilized properly. Why? The missing point is that we have forgotten to love the Supreme Person. That is the disease.
So the purpose of religion is to train persons how to love God. That is the purpose of all religion. Either you take Christianism or Hinduism or any "ism," the purport is that you try to love God, because that is our natural inclination. Even in uncivilized society, when there is some thunderbolt, they immediately offer obeisances. That is natural. And in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam it is said, sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje [SB 1.2.6]. Now this word dharma is translated or explained in the English dictionary, "religion," as "a kind of faith." But in Sanskrit dictionary, dharma means characteristic. Just like sugar. Sugar's characteristic is sweetness. If you are given some sugar, if you find it, it is not sweet, you at once reject it: "Oh, it is not sugar. It is something else." So that sweetness is the characteristic of sugar. Similarly, sour taste is the characteristic of salt, pungency is the characteristic of chili. Similarly, what is your characteristic, living entity? That you have to study. That is your religion. Not that Christian religion, Hindu religion, or this religion, that religion. Your eternal characteristic, what is that eternal characteristic? You want to love somebody, and therefore you want to serve. That is your characteristic. You want your society... You love your society, you love your family, you love your country, you love your community. Because you love, therefore you serve. That is your characteristic. Either you are Christian or either you are Muhammadan, either you are Hindu, this characteristic will go on. Suppose today you are Christian, tomorrow you become Hindu. That service mood, that loving spirit, goes with you, either you become Hindu or Muslim or Christian. Therefore that service spirit and love, the tendency to love and service spirit, is your characteristic, and that is your religion. That is the universal form of religion. You have to apply your natural characteristic in a certain place, where you will be satisfied. Your service spirit is (indistinct). You have to apply your natural characteristic in a certain place, where you will be satisfied. Your service spirit is there, your loving spirit is there, but because it is misplaced, you are not happy, you are frustrated, you are confused. The Bhāgavata gives you indication, sa vai puṁsāṁ paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhokṣaje [SB 1.2.6]. That is the first-class system of religion, which trains you to love God. And if you have developed that tendency to the fullest extent, to love God, then you are perfect man. And then you will feel perfection within yourself. Yayātmā suprasīdati. You are hankering after satisfaction, full satisfaction. That full satisfaction can be obtained only when you love God. That is the natural function. It doesn't matter whether you are following Christianism or Hinduism or Muhammadanism. Just try to understand how much you have developed your God consciousness to love God. Then in your any religion is nice, very nice. Otherwise it is simply waste of time. Śrama eva hi kevalam [SB 1.2.8]. After executing your ritualistic performances in particular type of religion throughout the whole life, if you do not see that you have no love for God, then simply you have wasted your time. Śrama eva hi kevalam.
Our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that: it is the postgraduate movement of all kinds of religion. We are inviting either Christian or Muslim or Hindus or this or that—we do not mind—"Please come with us and try to love God." This is Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement. And the method is very simple. Method is very simple. You chant this holy name: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. All these, my students, all of them are Americans, and they come from Christian or Jewish group. None of them came from Hindu or India. But what is the process I have given to them? The process is chant Hare Kṛṣṇa. It is very simple method. By chanting this mantra... Mantra. Mantra means... The Sanskrit word mantra, man means mind, and tra means deliverance. Mantra means that which delivers you from the mental concoction or hovering on the mental plane. Every one of us is hovering on the mental plane. By mind we are creating so many things: "I shall be happy in this way. I shall be happy in this way. I shall be happy in that way." But mantra means when you are delivered from that concoction, speculative way of your mind, and you come to the transcendental platform. That is the effect of mantra. So this mantra, this Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra, is called the mahā-mantra. Mahā-mantra means the greatest of all mantras. And this is the only suitable mantra for this age. This age is called Kali-yuga. Kali-yuga means the age of disagreement. Nobody agrees. Even husband, wife does not agree, what to speak of others. The father, son does not agree. Nobody agrees with anyone. This is the age like that. So in this age of disagreement you cannot say that this type of religion is nice, that type of religion is nice. That is finished now. You have to take this mantra: Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare. And you'll find it that very soon you are coming to the light.
So I do not wish to take much of your time, but simply I want to impress upon you that this chanting of Hare Kṛṣṇa is so nice that if you give in an experimental way... You can see. You chant for at least one week and you see how much you have changed. So these boys, they are chanting in the street. We have got many branches in your country, one in London, one in Germany, and everyone is taking part. It is increasing. So we don't charge anything, neither you have got any loss. If there is any profit, you can try it, but there is no loss. That is guaranteed. Chant Hare Kṛṣṇa, Hare Kṛṣṇa, Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa, Hare Hare/ Hare Rāma, Hare Rāma, Rāma Rāma, Hare Hare.
Thank you very much. (end)

Montreal, October 26, 1968
Prabhupāda: Why people are forced to commit sinful activities? This point is also discussed in the Bhagavad-gītā. Arjuna inquired from Kṛṣṇa, "What is that thing which forces a man to commit sinful activities?" Just like the same example that one man is seeing practically that one who has committed something criminal, he is punished. And he has heard it also from authorities, from lawyers or from respectable gentlemen, that "If you commit such and such sinful activities... If you steal, then you will be imprisoned for six months. If you cheat, you'll be imprisoned for such and such period. If you commit murder, then you'll be hanged." These things are taught some way or other. Either in religious scripture or by lawbooks or by morality or ethical principle, they are taught to the human, civilized human society. And he sees also practically that "This man has committed this kind of criminality, and he is punished." And again why does he commit? That is the problem. So kāma eṣa krodha eṣa rajo-guṇa-samudbhavaḥ. Kāma and krodha. Kāma means desire, lust. Kāma. And when the desire or lust is not fulfilled, then there is krodha. Krodha means anger. There are so many cases of criminality, when the lust is not fulfilled, one commits some criminal action and he is punished and so many things happen. So kāma eṣa krodha eṣa rajo-guṇa-samudbhavaḥ. As we have discussed many times that we are in this material world controlled by the three modes of material nature. Three qualities: goodness, passion and ignorance. So goodness... Yes, passion and ignorance are the causes of our bondage. And goodness is also cause of bondage, but in that platform one can see things as they are. Goodness. Prakāśa. Just like at night we cannot see, but in daytime we see. But seeing is not all. Unless I am convinced of something, even seeing... Just the same example: one man is seeing that a criminal person is punished; still he is committing criminal act.
So Śukadeva Gosvāmī's question is that suppose a man commits some sinful activities and he executes some atonement. In atone... This atonement is prescribed in every religion... (child sounds in background) (aside:) This is disturbing. Attention is diverted. Yes. So just like in the Christian church, they have the atonement process, confession. So suppose if you go weekly in the church and confess your sinful activities and it is excused, but again, next week you again commit the same sinful activities. Then what is the use of that confession and atonement? If you make it a business that "The whole week I shall commit sinful activities, and on Sunday I shall go to church and confess it, then everything will be balanced, squared-off account," that is all right. Then again from Monday you begin the sinful activities. So is that very good business? So Parīkṣit Mahārāja's question is that, that the atonement is there. But if one commits atonement and again commits sinful activities, then what is the use of such atonement? It is just like... He gave the example, kuñjara-snānavat. The elephant takes bath very nicely in the water, and as soon as he comes on the land, he takes dust and throws over, all over the body. So what is the use of taking bath? Similarly, if I am accustomed to commit sinful activities and for that reason I confess and make some atonement, then what is the use? That is the question of Parīkṣit Mahārāja. He's very intelligent. If I do again and again and again the same thing and make some atonement... So in every religion there are processes of atonement, prāyaścitta. In Hindu religion also there is such thing. Every religion such thing is there. But the purpose of such atonement is to bring the man, criminal man to consciousness. He should be conscious of his sinful activities. That is the idea. Just like a child has committed some wrong and he comes to the father. The father sees that he has done something wrong. So the child confesses, "Yes, father, I have done it. Please excuse me." "All right. Excused." The father says, "Don't do it again." Second time, again he commits the same thing. The father or the teacher says, "Oh, again you have committed?" "Yes. Please excuse me. I shall not do it again." "All right. Excused." But if on the third time again he commits the sin, what the father and the teacher will do? He will slap him. Yes. Just to teach him, "Nonsense. I have warned you twice, thrice, and again you are doing that? No more excuse. Now punishment." This is natural. So if I go to God, if I go and confess, "Father, God, Supreme Father, I have done these sinful activities. I am confessing," "All right." The father excuses. If you make it a business, that "I shall do it and confess," then what will be the result? The result will be punishment. That is natural consequence. So people should come to the understanding that "These sinful activities I shall not do." But he is forced to do, impelled by the quality of passion and ignorance. That is answered in the Bhagavad-gītā. Why does he so, as if being forced by some agent? That is answered in the Bhagavad-gītā that rajo-guṇa-samudbhavaḥ. Kāma eṣa krodha eṣa rajo-guṇa-samudbhavaḥ.
So we have to come to the platform of goodness from the platform of ignorance and passion. Then our life will be successful. Our life, the human form of life, is meant for changing the platform of activities. The animals, they cannot change their platform (of) activities. A tiger, however you instruct it nicely, it is not to be tamed. It is not... Because it is animal. It cannot change its, I mean to say, activities. But a human being, if he is trained... Therefore for human being there is system of the schooling. The children are... [break] They are advised to go to the church, to go to take moral instruction. It is for the human being, not for the animals. Because the human form of life can accept and make his path clear. His present activities, path, is very hazy. He does not know where he is going, what is his destination of life. That he does not know. Therefore education, training, and all so many things there are in every civilized human form of life so that he may come to the platform of goodness. And not only that goodness. One has to surpass that platform of goodness and come to the platform of pure goodness. In this material world it is very difficult to stand on the platform of goodness pure. Even a good man sometimes commits some mistake, commits some blunder in the material world. Because you should always remember that there are three modes of material nature—ignorance, passion, and goodness. Even you are on the platform of goodness, the other two qualities may be studied. Because it is the kingdom of māyā, or material nature, these things are very prominent. Sometimes goodness is prominent, sometimes ignorance is prominent, sometimes passion is prominent. In this way sometimes they are mixed up.
So three into three equal to nine. Nine into nine equal to eighty-one. Therefore you will find manifestation of eighty-one kinds of qualitative living entities. And they are divided into 8,400,000 species of life. These are very scientific studies. Try to understand it. And this human form of life is the chance to get out of this entanglement. These eighty-one, again if you multiply eighty-one by eighty-one, then it becomes huge quantity. So in this way these qualities are mixed up, colors. Just like three colors, blue, red and yellow. You mix and you produce multi-colors. If you are expert in color mixing... All these picture, whatever you are seeing, there are only three colors—blue, red and yellow—and you mix, varieties of color. Those who are artists, they know it very well. Similarly, these three qualities, three colors. The yellow is sattva-guṇa and the blue is the tamo-guṇa and the red is rajo-guṇa. These colors, they are representation of these three modes of material nature. Redness means passion, and blue, black, that means ignorance, and yellow, yellow is goodness. Therefore you see Kṛṣṇa and all others, they're in yellow dress. Of course in the spiritual world there is no such distinction. There is variety, but there is no inebriety. That is spiritual world.
Just like here you see Kṛṣṇa is in love with beautiful young girls. The same thing is here also. We are also accustomed to love beautiful girls, or beautiful girls accustomed to love beautiful boys. So the same thing is going on there in the spiritual world. It is simply reflection. The real thing is there in the spiritual world. It is simply shadow. The same loving affairs in a shadowy, hazy form is represented here. Originally it is in the spiritual world, in Kṛṣṇa. Kṛṣṇa is not to be supposed old man. God is never an old man. In the Brahma-saṁhitā it is stated,
God, Kṛṣṇa, He's the original person because from the original father, you can take, from whom everyone has come. Therefore He's the oldest. Advaitam acyutam anādim ādyam. Ādyam means the original person. Man is made after God; therefore God is original person. So that person ādyam, acyutam, anādim, nava-yauvanaṁ ca. Nava-yauvanaṁ ca means He is always a young man. Just like you are all young men, attractive. Young life is attractive. So that youthful age is always in the spiritual world. And as the youthful means joyful life, ānandamayo 'bhyāsāt... (Vedānta-sūtra 1.1.12). All young boys and young girls, they are after joyfulness, but they are being frustrated in this material world. That is the inebriety. The spiritual world means these things are there, but without any inebriety. Here we love. A boy loves a girl; a girl loves... But they are frustrated. After few days it is broken. Or if it is married, then again there is divorce. He finds another husband; she finds out another... Like that. These things are not there. Rādhā-Kṛṣṇa, the love of Rādhā and Kṛṣṇa is never broken. Never broken. That is the significance of the spiritual... They are eternally enjoying the loving affairs. And if you qualify yourself, then you leave this material world, this interaction of the modes of material nature, and be implicated in such things and you become free, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is very nice. Try to understand Kṛṣṇa consciousness. As soon as you become Kṛṣṇa conscious perfectly, you are no longer living in this material world. You are in the spiritual world. That is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam:

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