(location & date unknown)
Prabhupada: There also it is stated, what is the meaning of religion. First of all, in the Fourth Chapter the Lord says that dharma-samsthapanarthaya yuge yuge sambhavami. Paritranaya sadhunam vinasaya ca duskrtam [Bg. 4.8], dharma-samsthapanarthaya yuge yuge sambhavami. Yada yada hi dharmasya glanir bhavati bharata, tadatmanam srjamy aham [Bg. 4.7]. These things are there in the Bhagavad-gita, that "Whenever there is discrepancies in the matter of executing religious principles, then I descend or incarnate; I come." Yuge yuge sambhavami, atma-mayaya. Atma-mayaya. He is not forced to come here. This very word is used, atma-mayaya. As we are forced to come here by our destiny, karma, adrsta, which we cannot see We have got different bodies in this assembly-men, women, different features, different mentality. Why? According to different karma in the past.
So karmana daiva-netrena jantor deha upapattaye [SB 3.31.1]. We act, and the result of the action is just by the superior authority, daiva-netrena. And then, according to that result, we accept a certain type of body. So there are many discussions about this karmavada. But these are Vedic conclusions, according to karma. So this human form of life... I was speaking of the dharma. The dharma... Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, says that "I come down, I descend, I appear, for the reason to establish, reestablish"—not establish, reestablish—"to reestablish the principle of religion," yada yada hi, "whenever there is discrepancies."
Just like whenever there is misgovernment in the political world, there is some revolution; there is some change. People revolt against the administration that "We don't want this sort of government." As this is natural, similarly, whenever there is discrepancies in the matter of executing religious principle—means the order, or the laws given by God—at that time God Himself comes or His representative comes to reestablish the religious principles according to the climate, country, people. That is going on, not only in the human society, but also in the animal society, bird society. That we understand from the Vedas.
So then what is religion? The religion is, as I have told you that dharmam tu saksad bhagavat-pranitam [SB 6.3.19], the order of the Lord, God. And what is that order? This is plainly stated in the Bhagavad-gita, man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. Simply be Krsna conscious. Krsna says, man-mana bhava. Mana means consciousness. So "You be always Krsna conscious." Bhava mad-bhaktah: "Become My devotee." Man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji: "And worship Me." Mam namaskuru: "You namaskuru." You have to submit yourself somewhere. That is our nature. Nobody can say, "No. I don't submit to anyone." That is not possible. You have to submit. That is your position. Whatever you may be, you have to submit. So Krsna says, mam namaskuru: "Submit unto Me." Then what is the result? Mam evaisyasi: "Then you come back to Me," asamsayah, "without any doubt." And in the last verse also, Krsna concludes Bhagavad-gita that "My dear Arjuna, I have spoken to you so many things—karma-yoga, jnana-yoga, bhakti-yoga—but you are My very dear friend, so I will give you the secret of success," sarva-guhyatamam, "most confidential part of My instruction." What is that? Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja: [Bg. 18.66] "Give up everything. You simply surrender unto Me. That's all." Therefore, Krsna says, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja, and dharmam tu saksad bhagavat-pranitam: [Bg. 18.66] "Dharma means the laws given by God." Now, what is this law? He says that "Don't manufacture religion. Even if you have manufactured, give it up." Sarva-dharman parityajya. This sarva-dharman includes all religious principles.
The human society has manufactured in Hindu society, Muslim society or Christian society, and there are so many... Buddha society... So, but Bhagavad-gita says that "You can give up sarva-dharman, all sorts of religious principles. You simply surrender unto Me." This is the position. Krsna said in the beginning that "I come here to reestablish the religious principle." And what is that religious principle? To surrender unto Him. To surrender unto Krsna. This is real religious principle. And in the Naimisaranya, when this Suta Gosvami was asked what is the best religious principle, so, he replied, sa vai pumsam paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhoksaje: [SB 1.2.6] "It doesn't matter what is that religion. Any religion is first-class religion provided it gives you opportunity to develop your dormant love of God. That's all." You follow any religion; it doesn't matter. Either you become a Hindu, Muslim, or Christian, or Buddhist, or so many other religions there are, but the test is that whether your religious principle is first class or third class or second class, the test will be whether you have developed your dormant love of God. That's all. If you are lacking in that, that you have not..., instead of developing your dormant love of God, you are developing your love for so many other things...
Caitanya Mahaprabhu has instructed in Caitanya-caritamrta that just like when you seed some plants, there are..., some other plants also grow. So the gardener takes out the unnecessary plants in order to give impetus to the real plant to grow. So Srimad-Bhagavatam and Bhagavad-gita, following the principle that dharmam tu saksad bhagavat-pranitam [SB 6.3.19], that dharma means, religion means, the law enacted by the Lord... This is the law, that "You surrender unto Me." Krsna says. Now, if you say that Krsna is Indian God or Hindu God, oh, Krsna, of course, does not say like that. Krsna says in the Bhagavad-gita that sarva-yonisu kaunteya sambhavanti murtayo yah: [Bg. 14.4] "In any form of life, all the living entities..." It doesn't matter, even a human being or in the animal kingdom or lower than human beings, lower than animals, birds, beast, reptiles, aquatics. There are 8,400,000 species of life. Krsna claims, sarva-yonisu: "All species of life, they are My sons." Aham bija-pradah pita: "I am their father, supreme father."
So do not misunderstand that Krsna is Hindu God or Indian. You just try to understand what is Krsna. Krsna, this word, suggests... Krsna means all-attractive. So when Krsna was personally present on this planet... You know. Those who have read Krsna literature, I think most of you know Bhagavad-gita, such a nice philosophical presentation. Oh, there is no comparison in the world. That's a fact. Everyone—it doesn't matter if he is a scholar or if he is a serious student of religious principle or philosophy—he studies Bhagavad-gita very seriously, in all countries. There are many varied editions of Bhagavad-gita, and actually, the instruction is so high that it cannot be instructed by anyone else except the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
Besides that, Krsna proved Himself from His very childhood. When He was a small child on the lap of His mother, beginning from that, up to the time of His disappearance from this world, oh, He played everything just like God. There is no comparison. He... Those who have read Srimad-Bhagavatam, they are acquainted with the activities of Krsna. I am speaking this for people who are outside the scope of Vedic religion. Those who are in the Vedic religion, all of them, they accept Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. There is no doubt about it. So far our Vedic religion is concerned, the propounder of the Vedic religions in India still existing, still continuing, the acaryas, just like Sankaracarya, Ramanujacarya, Madhvacarya, Visnu Svami, Nimbarka, these acaryas... The followers, the whole Hindu community or the whole Indian nation, they are followers of these acaryas. Jarasandha: "One must worship the principle of acarya." Acaryavan puruso veda: "One who has accepted acarya, he knows what is knowledge." Acaryavan puruso veda. In this way all the acaryas, they accept Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So far the Vaisnava acaryas are concerned, namely, Ramanujacarya, Madhvacarya, Visnu Svami, they would naturally, because they are Vaisnavas...
Just like we. We belong to Madhvacarya. Our Gaudiya-sampradaya, Caitanya Mahaprabhu's sampradaya, they belong to the Madhvacarya disciplic succession. Lord Caitanya's spiritual master was Isvara Puri, and he was disciple of Madhavendra Puri, and this Madhavendra Puri was in the disciplic succession of Madhvacarya. Therefore we are in the disciplic succession of Madhvacarya. And this Madhvacarya-sampradaya is coming from Brahma. Therefore this sampradaya, disciplic succession, is known as Brahma-Madhva-Gaudiya-sampradaya.
So naturally we accept Krsna on the basis of Bhagavad-gita and Srimad-Bhagavatam as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is natural. But, everyone, of course, has to accept Bhagavad-gita and Vedanta-sutra if he, I mean to say, presents himself as Vedic or Hindu. Hindu is the name, the modern name. Actually the Vedic name is the original name, or varnasrama-dharma. That is the original name. So, apart from Vaisnavas, even Sankaracarya, who is impersonalist, who is Brahmavadi, he also accepts Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Those who have read Sankaracarya's commentary on the Bhagavad-gita, they must have seen it in the very beginning: sa bhagavan svayam krsnah. He begins his commentary, narayanah parah avyaktat: "Narayana is beyond this material creation." And then he says, "That Narayana is svayam bhagavan, Krsna." Krsna. Sa bhagavan svayam krsnah. And he has specifically mentioned that "He has appeared as the son of Devaki and Vasudeva." Beside that, he has written many songs and prayers about Krsna. And at the last stage of his life he has written a very nice poem,
bhaja govindam bhaja govindam bhaja govindam mudha mate
prapte sannihite khalu marane na hi na hi raksati dukrn-karane
Because the Mayavadi philosophers, they interpret Vedic mantras by grammatical jugglery, therefore Sankaracarya has warned that "Your grammatical jugglery, this dukrn-pratyaya, karane, will not save you." Mudha-mate: "You foolish person, you kindly take shelter of Govinda." Bhaja govinda. So this is the verdict of all acaryas. So our point is that this Krsna consciousness movement is nothing like manufactured religious principle. No. It is authorized. There is great background, all these, supported by all the acaryas and summarized by Caitanya Mahaprabhu. And we have got immense literature to support this philosophy of Krsna consciousness. But anyone who is reasonable, they will accept this philosophy of Krsna consciousness as very simple. And it is actually very simple, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66], to surrender unto Krsna. And if you cannot surrender immediately, then... These things are explained in the Bhagavad-gita. Caitanya Mahaprabhu has given you the easiest process, that you simply chant Krsna's name, Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare, Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare. Then everything automatically will develop.
How it will develop, that we began explaining yesterday, this Suta Gosvami's instruction. He says, srnvatam sva-kathah krsnah punya-sravana-kirtanah [SB 1.2.17]. If you simply hear about Krsna Krsna You can hear about Krsna in so many ways. Krsna has got so many activities. The whole Mahabharata, the whole Srimad-Bhagavatam, all the Puranas, and especially Srimad-Bhagavatam, is full of Krsna's activities. So it is very relishing also. Just like we try to read stories and fiction ordinarily—people take pleasure in it—similarly, if you simply read Srimad-Bhagavatam, you will relish that fiction reading; at the same time, you will be transcendentally realized. The Pariksit Maharaja, when he was hearing Srimad-Bhagavatam, he said that nivrtta-tarsair upagiyamanad bhavausadhac chrotra-mano-'bhiramat [SB 10.1.4]. He admitted that "This krsna-katha, narrations about Krsna, about Krsna's activities, it is relished, it is discussed, by nivrtta-tarsaih [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. Nivrtta-tarsaih means liberated person. Nivrtti means finished, and trsna, trsna, hankering.
So long you are in the material existence of life, there is hankering and lamenting because this world is being conducted by the two energies... Now, one energy, material energy, threefold qualities, sattva-guna, rajo-guna, tamo-guna... Generally it is being conducted by the rajo-guna and tamo-guna. Rajas-tamo-bhava. So Srimad-Bhagavatam says, this Suta Gosvami, that srnvatam sva-kathah krsnah [SB 1.2.17]. If you simply hear the activities of Krsna, which is confirmed by Pariksit Maharaja, that krsna-katha is relished by persons, nivrtta-tarsaih, who has transcended the three qualitative action and reaction of this material nature... Trsna. Everyone who are materially situated, he has got hankering: "I shall become this great man," "I shall become this big businessman," "I shall become such politician," "I shall become such and such." Always, everyone is struggling. But this krsna-katha is relished by them who are above this hankering. And that is also confirmed in the Bhagavad-gita. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma na socati na kanksati [Bg. 18.54]. This kanksa, this trsna, the same thing... Kanksa means hankering. In the ordinary position we are hankering and lamenting, hankering to possess something, and if, somehow or other, that possession is lost, then you are lamenting, again hankering. These two features of the material life. So brahma-bhutah... Brahma-bhutah means one who is above these two principles, hankering and lamenting. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma na socati na kanksati [Bg. 18.54]. If you become above these 8 qualities, material qualities, that is called brahma-bhutah, aham brahmasmi: "I am Brahman."
This is self-realization. So nivrtta-tarsaih means one who has realized his self. So Pariksit Maharaja, also confirming that "This krsna-katha, these activities of Krsna can be relished by persons who have are transcended this position of hankering and lamenting..." Nivrtta-tarsair upagiyamanat. They can actually understand. But what about the common man? The common man, he has also said, bhavausadhac chrotra-mano-'bhiramat. If common men simply hear, then it will be very pleasing to their ears and to their heart. Chrotra-mano-'bhiramat. They'll be pleased simply by hearing. Generally, people therefore take to Krsna's rasa-lila. But one should not go so swiftly to the rasa-lila because they will misunderstand. But there are so many other lilas of Krsna. So you hear them. That is our program. We are giving chance to the people in general to hear about Krsna. And this is our mission. Caitanya Mahaprabhu's mission is this, that amara ajnaya guru hana tara sarva desa: "You just become spiritual master under My order." What is that order? That also He says, yare dekha tare kaha 'krsna-upadesa [Cc. Madhya 7.128].' That's all. "You simply try to explain the krsna-katha." Krsna-katha means katha, the words, given by Krsna—that is Bhagavad-gita, katha—or katha about Krsna. That is Srimad-Bhagavatam. So these two messages you distribute to the whole world. That is Caitanya Mahaprabhu's order.
So you may question, "What you are? What is your position?" Our... My position is that, that under the supreme order of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu in disciplic succession, I am just trying to preach this krsna-katha. That's all. I am not manufacturing anything. Don't think that I have manufactured something new, Krsna consciousness. No. That is not my business. My business is just like the peon. The orderly. The message from Caitanya Mahaprabhu as it is, I am delivering. That's all. And it is being effected because I am not adulterating in the krsna-katha. Krsna says, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja; [Bg. 18.66] I also say the same thing, that "You become a devotee of Krsna. You surrender to Krsna." So there is no doubt that I am really representing the interests of Krsna because I am not adulterating. I am not misinterpreting the words of Krsna. And it is being effective.
You can see that before me many Indians came in this Western world. They also preached about this Krsna message or Bhagavad-gita. Great scholars came. But you have to admit that before this, the Westerners never accepted this principle of Krsna consciousness, because they could not deliver as it is. Now they are accepting. And there is immense potency. I have studied. There is immense potency of accepting. They are actually looking after this Krsna consciousness, the Western people. The other day I was talking with our Indian high commissioner. He also happens to be very nice, learned man. He said that "Swamiji, yes, they are looking after, like this." So, so far material advancement is concerned, they have seen enough of it. Therefore, these youngsters, they are no more interested in the material advancement. They have tasted it.
The next stage is, as it is explained in the Vedanta-sutra, atha atah brahma-jijnasa. Athato brahma jijnasa. This is the stage of their inquiry about Brahman. And that Brahman, Parabrahman, as it is confirmed by Arjuna when he understood Krsna... First of all he took Him as his friend, but after explanation of Bhagavad-gita, in the Tenth Chapter you will see, he is accepting, param brahma param dhama pavitram paramam bhavan [Bg. 10.12]. So this brahma-jijnasa, inquiry, is there. And krsna-katha is here. So everyone should join this movement, Krsna consciousness movement. Simply he has to distribute this knowledge of krsna-katha as ordered by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Then the result will be that, as it is stated in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, spoken by Suta Gosvami, that srnvatam sva-kathah krsnah punya-sravana-kirtanah [SB 1.2.17]. Krsna-katha is so nice that even one does not understand what is Krsna, simply if he hears the vibration of this holy chanting, Hare Krsna, he will be pious man. He will be pious man—simply by hearing. It has got It is so effective. Caitanya Mahaprabhu has said, ceto-darpana-marjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. Practically you are seeing. And in the Srimad-Bhagavatam this is also confirmed, srnvatam sva-kathah krsnah. Krsna is within you also, Paramatma. Isvarah sarva-bhutanam hrd-dese 'rjuna tisthati [Bg. 18.61]. So He is within you. As soon as He understands that you are very serious about Him, Krsna, the Supreme Lord, then He will help you. And srnvatam sva-kathah krsnah punya-sravana-kirtanah, hrdy antah-stho hy abhadrani.
Now, this abhadrani, abhadra, the exact translation is "misbehavior," abhadra, "ungentlemanliness." Is that exact translation? If it is not, you can correct me. Abhadra, the Sanskrit word... Those who are Indians, they know this word, bhadra and abhadra. Bhadra, means noble and abhadra means ignoble. So hrdy antah-stho hy abhadrani. These words of Srimad-Bhagavatam, each word is so valuable that if you scrutinizingly abhadrani, ignoble. What is that ignoble within our heart? That ignoble thing is claiming proprietorship on the property of God. That is the instruction in the Isopanisad. Every one of us claiming, unceremoniously, proprietorship on other's property This is the business of the whole material world.
This nationality which is claimed so much valuable in the modern age, difference based on nationality, to test on this point, abhadrani, this is most ignoble. We are eulogizing nationality so much, but actually, if you study these principles of nationality, it is most ignoble. Why? Because Isopanisad says, Veda, that isavasyam idam sarvam: [Iso mantra 1] "Everything belongs to God." How you are claiming that "It is our" or "It is mine"? Janasya moho 'yam aham mameti [SB 5.5.8]. This is illusion. What is not yours, you are claiming, "It is mine." Just like this body. This is also not mine. The nature has given me this body according to my karma. Just like the landlord has given me this house to live, but it is not my house. This is a fact. So if I live in this house and later on claim, "Oh, this is my house," the whole trouble begins. Similarly, everything which we are utilizing for our comforts, for our livelihood, everything is given by God. This body is given by God, the maintenance also given by God. You are maintaining this body by eating fruits, flowers, grains, or even meat. But who is supplying? You cannot create all these things in your machine-made factories. Eko bahunam vidadhati kaman. He is supplying. This is God consciousness or Krsna consciousness.
So because we are in different consciousness, therefore everything is ignoble in our heart. So srnvatam sva-kathah krsnah punya-sravana-kirtanah, hrdy antah-stho hy abhadrani [SB 1.2.17]. These abhadra, these ignoble thoughts, claiming something which does not belong to me, is the most ignoble. But if you gradually give your attention in the matter of hearing krsna-katha, then Krsna will help you how to wash off these ignoble things within your heart. Hrdy antah-sthah. He is within your heart. When you are serious, then He will wash off all these ignoble things from your heart. Hrdy antah-stho hy abhadrani. In this way, how Krsna consciousness movement can help the human society in all respect to become purified and thus live in peace and prosperity, we can have all this information from this Srimad-Bhagavatam, Bhagavad-gita. And we shall request you that you come and join with us and discuss with us. If there is any doubt, just clear it up and take up this movement seriously to make the human society happy and prosperous. Thank you very much.
Guest (Indian man): If I am not mistaken, I think I heard that Krsna reestablished religion, reestablished. Now who established before Krsna?
Prabhupada: Krsna is never born.
Guest: Krsna was not born?
Guest: Oh, that satisfies me very much. I was taught that...(indistinct)
Prabhupada: It is said in the Bhagavad-gita, ajo 'pi. Ajo 'pi: "I am never..." You are also not born, every one of us. Because we are part and parcel of Krsna, spirit soul, so nobody is born. Na jayate na mriyate va: "Nobody takes birth; nobody dies." Na jayate na mriyate va kadacit: "At any time." These things are there. And Krsna, about Himself, He says, ajo 'pi: "Although I am unborn." Ajo 'pi sann avyayatma bhutanam isvaro 'pi san: "Although I am unborn." So Krsna is never born. Just like in the morning there is sunrise. If you say the sun is born, that is mistake. Sun is seen. He is not born.
Prabhupada: Before Caitanya? In the Kali-yuga... Krsna was in the Dvapara-yuga, and Caitanya was in the Kali-yuga.
Prabhupada: No, there were others also, before Krsna.
Guest: Before Krsna, who was?
Prabhupada: No. Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He appears sometimes as Lord Ramacandra, or as Lord Caitanya, or sometimes others, like that.
Prabhupada: Yes. Yes.
Guest: He was disciple of. Now, was he born after Krsna or...
Prabhupada: No, he was born before... Who? Madhvacarya, you mean to say? He was born long, long before Lord Caitanya, after Krsna. Yes. Krsna... Krsna... Krsna appeared on this planet five thousand years ago. Madhvacarya appeared about one thousand years.
Prabhupada: Madhva... Not Madhvacarya directly. By his disciplic succession.
Prabhupada: No, no, no, no. A acarya does not require to become incarnation of Krsna. Not always all the acaryas are incarnation of Krsna. No. They are devotees. They are devotees.
Guest: But was a disciple of someone who was not incarnation.
Guest: Thank you.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is possible. (Hindi) You were inquiring about Isvara Puri, who was direct spiritual master of Lord Caitanya?
Guest: So he would not have a guru or...
Prabhupada: Yes, yes, yes, yes. There is no difference between devotee and God. You see? Sometimes a devotee is given a greater place than God Himself. Mad-bhaktah pujabhyadhikah. Just like Krsna is God or Arjuna is devotee. So Arjuna is given superior place, to sit on the chariot, and Krsna is driver of the chariot. That does not mean Krsna has degraded from His position. Krsna, or God, in any position, He is God.
Guest: But Krsna was not disciple of anyone.
Guest: Whose disciple was Krsna?
Prabhupada: He was also disciple of Sandipani Muni. Everyone has to become disciple. That is the Vedic system. Tad-vijnanartham gurum evabhigacchet. Without becoming disciple, nobody can understand.
Guest: No, but Krsna was Supreme God.
Prabhupada: That not... Supreme God... But He was playing just like human being. Supreme God we know by His activities. But He played the part of human being. Therefore in the Bhagavad-gita it is said, avajananti mam mudha manusim tanum asritam: [Bg. 9.11] "Because I am playing just like ordinary human being, those who are foolish persons, mudha, less intelligent, they accept Me as ordinary man." Param bhavam ajanantah: "They do not know the greatness behind Me. They do not know." Param bhavam ajanantah. Mama bhuta-mahesvaram: "That I am the Supreme Lord." Because they do not know, therefore, simply by superficial observation, that "He is playing just like ordinary man," that "He is the chariot driver of Arjuna..." Now, somebody may say, "How Krsna can be the Supreme Personality of Godhead? He was ordinary chariot driver of Arjuna. He was ordinary cowherds boy." Muhyanti yat surayayah. Very great sages, great saintly persons, also sometimes become bewildered. But to understand Krsna, that is explained also in the Bhagavad-gita. Bhaktya mam abhijanati [Bg. 18.55]. Not by learning, not by education, not by scholarship. Bhaktya. Bhaktya mam abhijanati yavan yas casmi tattvatah: "In reality what I am, that can be understood by the devotees, not by others." And in the beginning also, of the Bhagavad-gita teaching, He said Arjuna that "I am teaching Bhagavad-gita to you because you are devotee." Bhakto 'si priyo 'si: [Bg. 4.3] "You are My very dear friend and devotee. Therefore," rahasyam hy etad uttamam, "I am delivering this mystery of Bhagavad-gita-yoga to you." So to understand Bhagavad-gita requires that qualification: bhakto 'si. And similarly, on the Eighteenth Chapter, the Krsna directly says, bhaktya mam abhijanati. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma na socati na kanksati [Bg. 18.54]. The brahma-bhutah stage is liberated stage from material contamination. But you have to develop further. In the liberated stage, if you shall be satisfied simply being brahma-bhutah, self-realized, understanding yourself as Brahman, that is not sufficient. You have to make further progress. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma na socati na kanksati, samah sarvesu bhutesu [Bg. 18.54]. When one has acquired these qualities, that he is no more, I mean to say, faltering in the matter of hankering and lamentation, and he is now on the transcendental stage of seeing every living entity on the equal level—samah sarvesu bhutesu—at that stage one can enter into the devotional service. Mad-bhaktim labhate param [Bg. 18.54]. So bhakti is above the liberated stage of life. And bhakti, when, if one is fortunate enough to come to that stage, above the liberated stage, then bhaktya mam abhijanati [Bg. 18.55], then through that para bhakti, pure devotional service, one can understand Krsna in reality, tattvatah. And in another place He said, manusyanam sahasresu kascid yatati siddhaye: [Bg. 7.3] "Out of many millions of persons, somebody is interested for self-realization." Kascid yatati siddhaye. Siddhi. Siddhi. Siddhi-labha means perfection of human form of life. So nobody is interested. But there are some who are interested how to make this human form of life perfect. So, brahma-bhutah prasannatma [Bg. 18.54]. Manusyanam sahasresu kascid yatati siddhaye, yatatam api siddhanam: [Bg. 7.3] "Out of many persons who are actually engaged in the matter of that perfection of life," kascid vetti mam tattvatah, "somebody may know in reality what I am," because that reality can be understood by the devotee. Bhaktya mam abhijanati [Bg. 18.55]. He has not mentioned anything like jnani or yogi or karmi. No. He has simply mentioned one thing, bhaktya. And that is the process. (aside:) He is going. Give him prasada. (Hindi) Give him prasada, distribute. Yes.
Devotee: Distribute it now, Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Yes, yes.
Guest (2) (Indian man): If Krsna was not born, then what is the significance of that word, that sambhavami, dharma-samstha...
Guest (2): But is it like sunrise?
Prabhupada: Yes. Gone outward... Just like when He appears you can see Him.
Guest (2): What about that Janmastami? We observe all those things. What is the significance?
Prabhupada: That sambhavami is taken as janma, just like when the sun appears we take it as the sunrise and we perform so many things, similarly. You please take some prasadam. Yes. Sit down. Please sit down. Take some prasadam. Here is... Sit down.
Guest (2): But the thing is Krsna never came here with the...
Prabhupada: Krsna appeared when... That Janmastami, what you say... That you have to hear, about the Janmastami, from Bhagavatam. When Devaki was to give delivery of the child, at that time Krsna appeared in Narayana-murti before her. He never...
Prabhupada: No. In Narayana-murti. Narayana-murti appeared, and then the Vasudeva and Devaki prayed for... Then they prayed for, that "My Lord, You have appeared. I can understand. Now, if You remain in this Narayana-murti, then immediately Kamsa will come. Please take the form of an ordinary child." So He transformed into ordinary child and was lying down. So He appeared. Sambhavami. Sambhavami means appearance. And besides that, even He appears just like ordinary child, so that is also no birth. That does not mean Krsna is nonimportant. He can appear in any way.
Prabhupada: (Hindi) Naham sarvasya prakasah yogamaya-samavrtah: "I am not visible to everyone. I am covered by the yogamaya." (Hindi) Bhaktya mam abhijanati [Bg. 18.55]. That quality is bhakti. If you become bhakta, then you can understand bhagavat... (Hindi) Otherwise, it is not possible. (Hindi) (end)