Paṇḍāl Lecture-- November 14, 1971, Delhi

711114LE-DELHI [92:36 Minutes]

Anywhere you go, you become a spiritual master on My order

[Speed Issues]

Indian man: [Hindi, addressing audience]

Prabhupada: [indistinct aside]

Indian man: [Hindi, addressing audience]

Audience: [applauding at a couple of points] Haribol!

Indian man: [Hindi, addressing audience]

Devotee: [aside to Prabhupada] Karatals?

Prabhupada: If somebody will play, four.

Devotee: Do you want karatals?

Audience: [speech finishes] Haribol!

Devotee: Do you want me to hold your glasses?

Indian man: [introduces Prabhupada in Hindi]

Prabhupada: [leads singing of Jaya Radha-Madhava] [prema-dhvani]

[14:13]

[break] ...for your kindly participating in this Krsna consciousness movement. Just now our guest, today's guest, was speaking about papa and punya. The Krsna consciousness movement is transcendental of papa and punya. Papa means sinful activities and punya means pious activities. Both activities are causes for bondage. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita:

Yajnarthe. Yajna means Visnu, yajna-purusa. Simply for Visnu or Krsna. Krsna is the Supreme Lord of visnu-tattva. There are different tattvas: visnu-tattva, sakti-tattva. So we have to understand tattva.

So Visnu, Visnu is the Supreme Lord, tad visnoh paramam padam sada pasyanti surayah [Rg Veda 1.22.20]. That is the Rg Veda mantra. Those who are surayah, they are looking forward to the lotus feet of Lord Visnu. In the Srimad-Bhagavatam says, na te viduh svartha-gatim hi visnum [SB 7.5.31]. People in general, they do not know what is their ultimate goal of life. They do not know. Na te viduh svartha-gatim hi visnum.

Everyone is self-interested. That is not bad. As a living entity, as a living being, everyone should be self-interested. That is natural, because I am individual being, you are individual being. You have got your interest, self-interest; I have got my self-interest. But unless the self-interest both of you and me are targeted towards Visnu, then we shall fight.

Persons who are very much interested simply on the external energy... This material world is creation of the external energy of Krsna. You have read it in the Bhagavad-gita:

The material world, which is creation of the five elements gross and three subtle elements: mind, intelligence and ego, Krsna claims that prakrti me astadha: "My. They are My property." Actually, we try to understand whether you can create bhumi, earth. You cannot create. The bhumi, either you say India or Pakistan or America, that is not created by the human being. You cannot create. Even a small particle of sand you cannot create in your laboratory, what to speak of this whole world. That is claimed by Krsna, me, "That is Mine," and prakrti, prakrti means generally woman, as woman is predominated and the man is predominator.

In our general life we understand it very easily. Husband and wife, the wife is predominated, naturally, and the wife remaining predominated by the husband, the predominator, she is happy. That is the injunction of our Manu-samhita: na striyam svatantratam arhati. Women should not be given independence; they should be given protection. In childhood she should be protected by the father, in youthhood she should be protected by the husband, and in old age she should be protected by the elderly sons. That is our law, Vedic law.

But this prakrti means that enjoyed. This prakrti is enjoyed. Similarly, there is another prakrti. Krsna says, apareyam itas tv viddhi me prakrtim para [Bg 7.5]. This is material prakrti. And there is another prakrti, which is called jiva-bhutam maha.

Dharyate, sustainer, and the dharya, or sustainer, the living entity... Just like your body, my body, it is sustained by the spirit soul. As soon as the spirit soul is gone out of this body, it is simply a lump of matter only. It has no value. Therefore that small particle, spiritual spark, is important more than this matter. Apareyam itas tv viddhi me prakrtim para [Bg 7.5].

So the jiva-bhutam maha-baho, the living entities, they are also calculated as prakrti, women, and this matter, that is also calculated as prakrti. So a prakrti, a woman, cannot enjoy another woman. If she wants to enjoy another woman, that is artificial. Similarly we, although superior prakrti, are Krsna's. We are unnecessarily trying to enjoy this material prakrti. That is our fault. That is called illusion, "which is never possible." Which is never possible.

But it is going on, beginning from Brahma down to the small, insignificant ant. Everyone is trying to enjoy this world. Therefore sometimes the living entity is sometimes described as purusa. Purusa means enjoyer. So this is illusion, because unnecessarily we are trying to enjoy this material world on our personal account. That is the cause of all dissatisfaction all over the world.

This Krsna consciousness movement is started to convince people in general that they are not enjoyer; they are enjoyed. Therefore they should come to their original consciousness, which is called Krsna consciousness. Now we have forgotten. Consciousness is pure, but when it is contaminated by the material modes of nature, sattva-guna, rajo-guna, tamo-guna, tri-guna-mayah, then it becomes polluted. Just like the water, when it falls down from the sky, from the clouds, it is crystal clear, but as soon as it contacts the earth it becomes muddy. Similarly, our consciousness, originally it is Krsna consciousness.

There is another world, which is called spiritual world. That is also mentioned in the Bhagavad-gita:

In that world there are also living entities, there are also planets, they are called Vaikuntha planets, and there living entities, they are all liberated. They are called nitya-mukta, eternally liberated. They never come here in this material world. And those who have come here in this material world, they are called nitya-baddha, eternally encaged.

So our this human form of life is meant for getting out of this encagement. That is called mukti, or liberation. And what is that liberation? Liberation means to be situated in his own original position. That is the description given in the Srimad-Bhagavatam:

That is called mukti. When we give up our artificial endeavor and we become situated in our original consciousness, that is called mukti, or brahma-bhuta, brahma-bhutah prasannatma. So this Krsna consciousness movement is very important, because it is trying to deliver people in general-not only in India, but all over the world-how they can be situated in their original consciousness, which is called mukti,

Svarupa means, as Lord Caitanya, when He was asked by Sanatana Gosvami, "What I am?" He said that "Your real constitutional position is that you are eternal servant of God," jivera 'svarupa' haya-nitya krsnera dasa. That is our eternal position. But when we do not try to serve Krsna, we have to serve; we are obliged to serve maya. Our service position is there. That is our constitutional position. We cannot be master; that is not possible. We are servants.

Now, we are meeting so many friends here, thousands. Now can anyone say that you are not servant? Every one of us is servant. Every one of us servant, because that is our constitutional position. But if we try to artificially to become master, that is illusion. We cannot become the master. Jivera 'svarupa' haya-nitya-krsnera dasa. But the struggle is, here in this material world, they are trying to become master. Somebody is trying to become master of his family, somebody is trying to become the master of his community, somebody is trying to become master of his nationality, and somebody is trying to become master of the internationality, and at last somebody is trying to become the Supreme God.

That means everyone is trying artificially to become the master, and that is illusion. We have to become servant-that is our mukti-not master. That is artificial. The same thing I have already explained: this matter and the living entity, both of them are prakrti, they are womanly nature, or predominated nature. So we cannot be master.

The Vedas also confirm,

The Lord, Supreme Lord, He is also eternal, we are also eternal, because qualitatively we are one with the Lord, mamaivamso jiva-bhutah. Jiva, the living entities, they are part and parcel of Krsna. So if Krsna is gold, then we are also gold. Krsna is sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah; therefore we are also sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah. But because we are very minute particle, sometimes this quality of sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah becomes colored by the illusory external nature.

Just like a small spark of the fire when it falls down on the ground, it almost it becomes extinguished or it becomes extinguished, that is our position. Because we have fallen down from the original fire, Krsna, therefore our spiritual life or enlightenment is now covered, and as soon as again we ignite that spiritual consciousness, that is called Krsna consciousness.

So Suta Gosvami, from the Srimad-Bhagavatam he is giving us a very nice program how we can invoke our spiritual consciousness. That is stated in Caitanya-caritamrta, that,

Udaya means it becomes awakened. Sravanadi-suddha-citte. This process, just you are kindly hearing about Krsna...

[break] we are employing so many devotees all over the world simply to canvas people to surrender unto Krsna. That is our business. So this process of hearing is recommended in the Srimad-Bhagavatam,

Krsna, these words or message about Krsna, is punya-sravana-kirtanah. Punya, one who is hearing and one who is chanting. Just like I am speaking and you are hearing: both of us being benefited. Both of us being benefited because the subject matter is Krsna. Caitanya Mahaprabhu's mission is that, that "Anywhere you go, you become a spiritual master on My order."

And what is your business? Yare dekha, tare kaha 'krsna'-upadesa. Whomever you meet, you simply speak the message of Krsna, nothing else. Yare dekha, tare kaha 'krsna'-upadesa. So Bhagavad-gita is spoken by Krsna personally, that is also krsna-upadesa, and Srimad-Bhagavatam, that is also krsna-upadesa, both of them.

So our preaching point is to make people to understand Bhagavad-gita as it is and Srimad-Bhagavatam as it is. That is our business. Because the more you hear, you become pious, your heart becomes cleansed of material dirty things.

Anyone who is simply hearing, even if you do not understand a single word of Srimad-Bhagavatam, but if you simply give your aural reception to hear the words, the transcendental vibration will cleanse your heart. Ceto-darpana-marjanam, it will cleanse your heart. That is stated in the Srimad- Bhagavatam. Caitanya Mahaprabhu also says:

So this saṅkirtana movement is so nice that even if you do not understand a word, you will acheive the result of pious activities, punya-sravana-kirtanah. But we are not interested. Krsna-bhakta is not interested for pious activities also. They are not interested for sinful activities, but they are also not interested in pious activities. They are simply interested in the service of the Lord. That is. That service of the...

Just like Arjuna. Arjuna, in the beginning, he was thinking that this fighting is impious activities, sinful activities: "Krsna, don't ask me to fight. It is very much sinful. I will not fight." But after learning Bhagavad-gita he agreed to fight. So how this impious activity, fighting, became pious activity? That is to be understood. Because Krsna advised Arjuna to fight. In the beginning he declined, but at the end he agreed. He said, karisye vacanam tava [Bg 18.73], "Yes."

Krsna inquired, "Now what is your decision? I have spoken to you everything. I have explained. Now what is your decision?" Arjuna replied, karisye vacanam tava. Karisye vacanam tava, and he fought. He killed his grandfather Bhisma, which he was hesitating, that "How shall I kill my grandfather? He is so pious and so generous, he is so kind. And my acarya Dronacarya?" But later on, after understanding Bhagavad-gita, he fought and killed them.

Now, try to understand, the same thing which was considered before as impious, how it became pious? Because Krsna certified Arjuna, bhakto 'si me, priyo 'si me: "You are My very nice devotee and very dear devotee." So a person who is very dear as devotee of Krsna, is he impious? No. He is not impious. He cannot be impious. Therefore this pious or vicious activities, they can be considered in terms of our relationship with Krsna. What Krsna says, that is pious, what Krsna does not say, what Krsna forbids, that is impious, not in our standard.

Therefore in the sastra it is said that dharmam tu saksad bhagavat-pranitam [SB 6.3.19]. Dharmam. What is dharma? Dharma means you have to execute the orders of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is dharma. And Krsna also advises the same thing: sarva-dharman parityaja mam ekam saranam vraja.

So how we can achieve that status of life when we can directly speak with Krsna and carry His order? That means purification of heart, ceto-darpana-marjanam. That is recommended here:

Hrdy antah stho hy abhadrani. Krsna is sitting in your heart. So as soon as you are eager to understand Krsna, Krsna also becomes interested in you. Krsna says,

Because He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He must be equal to everyone. He says that samo 'ham, "I am equal to everyone," sarva-bhutesu, "not only human being; animals also. I am equal to everyone." Na me dvesyo 'sti na priyah: "Nobody is subject of envy for Me, neither anybody is very dear to Me." Because they are working in their own way. Ye tu bhajanti mam bhaktya tesu te mayi [Bg 9.29]: "But one who has taken to the devotional service, I am there particularly taking attention."

And He has many times declared, kaunteya pratijanihi na me bhaktah pranasyati [Bg 9.31]. So we have to take shelter of Krsna. Unless we come to that position, all our knowledge, all our religion, they are simply srama eva hi kevalam, simply waste of time, labor, only. So that is also stated in this verse, in this chapter, that,

You can execute your religion-it doesn't matter-very nicely, dharmah svanusthitah pumsam, but if you do not, I mean to say, awaken your Krsna consciousness, then in the sastra it is said that is simply waste of time, simply labor, srama eva hi kevalam.

Therefore this Society, Krsna consciousness Society, is establishing all over the world, in every village and every town, a center to give chance [to] people to hear about Krsna. Therefore this Society's name is International Society for Krishna Consciousness. That Krsna consciousness is there in everyone's heart; otherwise how these American boys and European boys and girls [are] taking to Krsna consciousness? It is not foreign. Many svamis and yogis went there to preach Hindu culture, but they did not take. Why? They have got their Christian culture; why they shall accept Hindu culture? Why they are interested in Krsna culture? Because the same thing, as it is stated,

Krsna is staying in everyone's heart. So by the process we have to awaken that consciousness, Krsna consciousness. Otherwise it is not Krsna consciousness, not Indian cult or Hindu cult. But in India, because they cultivated this Krsna consciousness very highly, all our sages, this land, this land of Bharata-varsa, is the land for Krsna consciousness. But by force we have covered that Krsna consciousness; therefore we are suffering.

We have to revive also. Not only that the foreigners should simply revive and we shall neglect. No. This is originally the land of Krsna consciousness, so if you revive Krsna consciousness, then the dirty things within your heart will be cleaned.

Abhadrani means that dirty things that "I don't like you," "You don't like me." Because unless one is Krsna conscious, he cannot be called a learned. As it is stated in the Bhagavad-gita,

One who is actually Krsna conscious, he does not make any distinction that he is American or Indian or human being or animal. A devotee will never agree to kill an animal, not even an ant. That is, yasyasti bhaktir bhagavaty akincana [SB 5.18.12]. Factually, if you become Krsna conscious, if your faith and love for Krsna is unflinching, then you will be equally disposed, samah sarvesu bhutesu [Bg 18.54]. Simply by passing resolution you cannot establish universal brotherhood, unless you come to Krsna consciousness. That is the first principle. Brahma-bhuta: you have to get release from this material concept of life; you have to come to the platform of transcendental realization.

And that is very easily done, as it is explained here, srnvatam sva-kathah krsnah. Simply try to hear the messages of Krsna. The Bhagavad-gita is the message and the Srimad-Bhagavatam is the message. You read first of all, hear, but don't try to malinterpret Bhagavad-gita. Try as it is. Try to read Bhagavad-gita as it is. Don't manufacture your ideas, that Krsna means this or Kuruk-setra means this, the Pandava means this. No. Pandava means Pandava. They are historical person. Kuruk-setra means Kuruksetra. Krsna means Krsna. If you study Bhagavad-gita in that way, then there will be effect. Don't try to adulterate.

Therefore it is recommended,

Krsna..., to hear about Krsna, to chant about Krsna. Even if you don't read books, if you simply chant this mantra, Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare... That is also srnvatam sva-kathah krsnah. Hearing of Krsna's name is the same as hearing of Bhagavad-gita or hearing of Bhagavatam. If one has no time, neither has got the capacity to read Bhagavad-gita, Srimad-Bhagavatam, he can chant Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare. That is as good as the Bhagavad-gita, because Krsna being absolute, there is no difference between Bhagavad-gita and this chanting of Hare Krsna. They are all the same.

That will be realized gradually. That is stated here. As soon as our heart is cleansed of all dirty things, then we shall realize what is Krsna, what is Krsna's name, what is Krsna's form, what is Krsna's activity, what is Krsna's devotee or any other thing in relationship with Krsna.

Krsna is suhrt, but He is especially suhrt to His devotees, satam. The devotees are called satam, and those who are non devotees, they are asatam, because after finishing this body they will get another body. But satam means the devotee, after finishing this body, tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti, he immediately develops a spiritual body. A devotee, after giving up this body, he is no more coming back to take birth in the womb of a material body. That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gita.

So if we want to cleanse our heart of all dirty things that is accumulated by our association with the external energy of Krsna, maya, then you have to hear about Krsna. Simple method. If you hear the Bhagavad-gita, Srimad-Bhagavatam, that is well and good. Otherwise, you simply hear Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare. You chant, and... It can be executed anywhere, in any part of the world, without any botheration, without any loss, but the gain is very much. That is our proposal. So it is very simple, at the same time sublime. You can accept it both ways. So,

Then Suta Gosvami says, nasta-prayesv abhadresu...

The Bhagavata should be heard nityam, daily, regularly. Not that Bhagavata-saptaha. This is another formality. So far Bhagavata-saptaha is concerned, I have studied so many commentaries, at least eight principal commentators like Sridhara Svami, Jiva Gosvami, Visvanatha Cakravati, Bir Raghava Acarya, Subodhini. There are many tikas, [indistinct], on the Srimad-Bhagavatam, but nowhere I find the Bhagavata-saptaha. Why Bhagavata should be heard for saptaha? Nityam bhagavata. Because in Srimad-Bhagavatam it is stated, nityam bhagavata-sevaya: you have to hear Bhagavata daily. If it is possible twenty-four hours, then your dirty things will be cleansed.

It is not a formula, that I hear for seven days and I stop it for good. No. Here is is recommended, nasta-prayesu abhadresu. It is not that completely clean. Nasta-prayesu, "almost clean." Even in that state, nasta-prayesu abhadresu nityam bhagavata-sevaya, that can be possible. Bhagavata, Krsna says, sva-kathah srnvatam krsnah, That sva-kathah means Bhagavad-gita and Srimad-Bhagavatam.

So here again it is stressed that nityam bhagavata-sevaya, that when one becomes almost cleansed of his heart, nasta-prayesv abhadresu nityam bhagavata... That is also, that cleansing process is possible simply by hearing Srimad- Bhagavatam or krsna-katha. Then what happens?

If you hear about Krsna regularly, then gradually you shall develop the love of Krsna. Bhagavaty uttama-sloke. Bhagavan, Krsna, is described here as uttama-sloka. Krsna is described by his finest poetry. Sloka means poetry or statement; uttama means transcendental. Ud-gata tama yasmad. Tama is this material. So Krsna's description is not material description. Just like we have description of Krsna in the Brahma-samhita,

Krsna is attached. Why? Tending cows, surabhir abhipalayantam.

These are all transcendental description. Krsna is not an imagination. It is not that we have to imagine the form of Krsna. It is not the question of imagination. It is practical fact, as it is stated in the sastras.

So that... [break] …naisthiki. If you continue to hear about Krsna, then you will have firm faith in Krsna, as these boys and girls, they are Europeans, Americans, but still you cannot deviate them from krsna-bhakti. That is not possible. If you bribe them, or if you give the empire of the whole world that "You forget Krsna consciousness," they will never forget. Bhaktir bhavati naisthiki.

So this is the formula. So India, this calamitous position of India, you try to hear Bhagavad-gita As It Is, you try to hear Srimad-Bhagavatam, your all problems will be solved.

Thank you very much. Hare Krsna. [audience claps]

[break] Yes, come here. [invites man from audience onto stage] [break]

Guest (American man): Oh, I have a bad memory. Sir, could you tell me, have you realized yourself within? Start with..., I mean the self within the spine of the heart, the atma. I mean the ego, not the self little, but the big one, the self within. Have you realized that?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Guest: You have?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Guest: All right. Thank you. Now when was the Gita written, sir?

Prabhupada: Five thousand years ago.

Guest: Five thousand years ago? Well, most of the schools generally place it between the fifth and the second centuries before Christ.

Prabhupada: That is nonsense.

Guest: According to Swami Prabhavananda, who was the foremost disciple of Swami Suryananda, who was regarded by his master Sri Ramakrishna as a perfect embodiment of that renunciation called [indistinct]... And also, according to...

Prabhupada: Do you know how to understand Gita?

Guest: Pardon?

Prabhupada: Do you know how to understand Gita?

Guest: I don't say that. I...

Prabhupada: No. Do you know how to understand Gita?

Guest: I don't say that. I'm not an enlightened being. I am not...

Prabhupada: Then you become first of all a student of Gita.

Guest: I just asked for a few questions. Now all right...

Prabhupada: No, you cannot question, because you do not know what is the process of understanding Gita.

Guest: I have... I know.

Prabhupada: What is that?

Guest: I read the book, and I may not have...

Prabhupada: What you have read?

Guest: I have intuition...

Prabhupada: No, no. What is that, you say first of all. What is that process?

Guest: What process?

Prabhupada: To understand Bhagavad-gita, what is the process?

Guest: To understand Bhagavad-gita?

Prabhupada: Yes. What is the process?

Guest: I just want to ask you a few questions.

Prabhupada: Then you do not know.

Guest: I want to have a [indistinct], because I do not know much about the Bhagavad-gita. Now you could ask me...

Prabhupada: But you learn it first of all. Yes. I will tell you. Now you sit down tight.

Guest: Now when was...

Prabhupada: First of all you hear. Don't talk nonsense. First of all hear. First of all you state what is the process of understanding Bhagavad-gita.

Guest: I understand it a bit.

Prabhupada: Hah?

Guest: I understand it.

Prabhupada: What is the process? I am asking you what is the process.

Guest: I asked you a few questions. I have come here to ask you a few questions.

Prabhupada: Then you learn from me. Don't ask me questions which you do not understand.

Guest: I am a simple man. I have no diplomas, no university...

Prabhupada: Then you try to understand from me.

Guest: Now when was Lord Krsna's birthday this year?

Prabhupada: Ah. First of all let me know. You are questioning me so many ways, you answer my one question: What is the process of understanding Bhagavad-gita?

Guest: I don't know, because... I don't know. I'm not an enlightened being.

Prabhupada: Then you stop please. Then don't talk. You do not know..., understand how to understand Bhagavad-gita.

Guest: I am asking you a few questions. Why don't you answer me?

Prabhupada: I cannot answer because you do not know how to understand the process.

Guest: We live in a democracy. I am not an enlightened person.

Prabhupada: No, no, we are not under democracy; we have got a process.

Guest: I am not an enlightened being. I am in studying.

Prabhupada: Then you study first of all what is the process.

Guest: No. Please answer my questions.

Prabhupada: No. I cannot answer, because you do not know the process.

Guest: I want to know more about this.

Prabhupada: No. I cannot.

Guest: We live in a democracy...

Prabhupada: I am not your servant, that I have to answer.

Guest: Even in the Pakistan parliament...

Prabhupada: First of all you have come to question.

Guest: …the people are allowed to ask questions. [shouting:] Now we live the largest democracy of the world.

Devotee: Take him off.

Prabhupada: Nonsense, I cannot answer. It is nonsense.

Guest: Richard Nixon said it...

Guest (2) (Indian man): I will answer you. I will answer you. It is not Prabhupada. Just come down, I will answer you. Your questions have no bearing. I will answer you.

Guest: You will answer me?

Guest (2): I will answer you, one by one.

Guest: Who are you?

Guest (2): I am just one of them who has come. I will tell you.

Guest (3): There are many more who will answer you...

Guest (2): [loudly] I will answer you, one by one. Not Prabhupada.

[some devotees start chanting govinda jaya jaya gopala jaya jaya] [break]

Prabhupada: …understanding Bhagavad-gita. I have been requested to state the process. Just like you take a bottle of medicine given by your physician. On the bottle there is a label, and the instruction is given there, how to take the medicine. Just like there is a mixture, and the physician gives direction that "This medicine to be taken thrice daily with such-and-such vehicle."

You cannot change that dose and the instruction of the physician; then the medicine will not be properly taken and it will not act. If you whimsically make your own process to take the medicine, then you will never get relief from..., by taking that medicine.

Similarly, if you want to understand Bhagavad-gita you have to take the direction given by Krsna Himself. You cannot invent your own way of understanding Bhagavad-gita. That is nonsense. You have to strictly follow what Krsna says. In the Fourth Chapter you will find,

Krsna says that "This Bhagavad-gita yoga system was spoken by Me first some millions of years ago to the sun-god, Vivasvan," imam vivasvate yogam proktavan aham avyayam. He spoke. Now, if you don't accept this proposition of Bhagavad-gita, then what is the use of bothering yourself understanding Bhagavad-gita? You have to accept that Krsna spoke Bhagavad-gita forty millions of years ago to the sun-god. It is possible, because He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

This question was raised by Arjuna also, just to satisfy common people like us. Arjuna said that "Krsna, You are my contemporary, You are my cousin-brother, You are my friend. So practically we are born together. How I can believe that forty millions of years ago You spoke this Bhagavad-gita to Vivasvan, the sun-god?" Krsna answered that "Yes, both you and Me, we took many, many births, but you have forgotten; I remember." That is the difference between Krsna and ordinary man. If you take Krsna as ordinary man then you will never understand Bhagavad-gita. That is the folly.

Because Krsna comes with the human form of body, rascals think that He is ordinary man. He is not ordinary man.

He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Therefore Krsna said that yoga system is now lost:

Because that parampara system is lost, so if you understand..., if you want to understand Bhagavad-gita, you have to understand through the parampara system, not whimsically. Exactly like that: if you want to take benefit of the medicine, you must take it according to the direction of the physician. If you don't follow this principle, then you will never understand Bhagavad-gita.

You'll never understand Bhagavad-gita. Krsna will be covered by yoga-maya, and you will hover in the darkness. So this is the process. We have to understand Krsna from the parampara system. Now what is that parampara system? Krsna spoke to Arjuna. Why? Krsna could have selected a great Vedantist to speak this Bhagavad-gita. Why He selected Arjuna? He was an ordinary grhastha, he was a statesman, he was a fighter. You cannot expect a fighter, a king or grhastha to understand very much about Vedanta.

He was completely qualified, but still for our understanding we may take like that; but his one qualification was that he was a devotee. Bhakto 'si priyo 'si me, rahasyam hy etad uttamam [Bg 4.3]: "I am speaking to you Bhagavad-gita-I do not speak [to] any Vedantist-because you are My devotee, you are My very dear friend." So before understanding Bhagavad-gita one has to become a dear friend and devotee of Krsna. Otherwise useless attempt. That is the statement of Bhagavad-gita. This is the process of Bhagavad-gita. Understand it.

Devotee: Haribol!

Prabhupada: Unless you understand what is Krsna, you cannot become devotee, and unless you become devotee, you cannot understand Bhagavad-gita. That is the statement in the Bhagavad-gita.

Thank you very much.

Audience: [applauds] Jaya Srila Prabhupada! [break]

Guest (3): …more than sensual pleasures. The reason is like the staff of living tree, it penetrates [indistinct] our whole life is striving for true religion [indistinct] the heart of and the [indistinct]. [break]

Prabhupada: …religion. So we may speak something about religion this evening. This is... According to our Vedic system, there are two kinds of religion. First of all try to understand what is religion. Religion means constitutional position, characteristics. The exact word is characteristics. In English dictionary the religion is described as a kind of faith.

Faith you can change, but according to our dictionary, religion you cannot change, religion or dharma. Dharma you cannot change, but the English translation, faith, you can change. Today you are Hindu; tomorrow you can become a Muhammadan. Or today you are Christian, and tomorrow you can become a Hindu. This is the change of faith.

But so far the word dharma is concerned, that cannot be changed. We should understand it. Therefore the word dharma and the word religion is little different. Our conception of dharma is characteristic. Just like sugar: sugar must be sweet. If sugar is not sweet, then it is not sugar. Similarly chili, it must be hot. If chili is not hot, then it is not chili. So fire... Fire, there must be heat and light, otherwise it is not fire.

Water, it must be liquid. If the water is not liquid... Sometimes water has become solid, but that solidity is under certain condition; that is not natural. The natural religion of water is liquidity. The natural religion of stone is solidity. Similarly, you analyze anything, any physical element, you will find some particular characteristic. That characteristic is religion, not in English word, but dharma.

So we take it, then, dharma, and in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, Sixth Canto, it is stated, dharmam tu saksad bhagavat-pranitam [SB 6.3.19]. Dharma, this word, is the law given by the Lord, Krsna, the Supreme Personality of God. And actually we find in the Bhagavad-gita that dharma as dictated by Lord Krsna:

So in the beginning of the Bhagavad-gita the Lord says,

Now at the end He said,

So the Supreme Personality of Godhead appeared on this planet for establishing dharma. He said, dharma-samsthapanarthaya. Then why does He say sarva-dharman parityajya? This is to be understood. That means that except for surrendering unto the lotus feet of Krsna, anything which is going on under the name of dharma, that is not dharma. That is the verdict. Therefore in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, it is said in the beginning of the First Canto, second sloka, dharmah projjhita-kaitavo 'tra. Atra is Srimad-Bhagavatam.

In the Srimad-Bhagavatam, dharma kaitava, dharma which is going on as a cheating proposition, that is thrown away. Dharmah kaitava. Sridhara Svami, the great commentator on the Srimad-Bhagavatam, accepted by all the acaryas; and you know when Srimad-Bhagavatam is presented, Sridhara Svami's commentary comes first, then all others. Sridhara Svami is so respected by all the acaryas.

When Caitanya Mahaprabhu was at Puri, Vallabha Acarya, he presented his Subodhini-tika on the Srimad-Bhagavatam, and he was very proud that he wrote a commentary which was better than Sridhara Svami's. So Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu did not like that idea, that "You cannot excel the previous acarya," He replied. He did not hear the Subodhini-tika of Vallabha Acarya; He simply replied, svami jiva nahi mane besyara bhitare[?]. In a very sarcastic way He replied that "Anyone who does not care for the svami, she must be considered as a besa."

So Sridhara Svami... I am just trying to point out Sridhara Svami's position. Sridhara Svami, when commenting on this line, dharmah projjhita-kaitavo 'tra, he said, artha moksavams ca api nirastham. Dharma, artha, kama, moksa. There are four things. Srimad-Bhagavatam says generally, people, they become religious for economic development, artha. Srimad-Bhagavatam says that dharma is not meant for economic development.

One should not take to religion for material benefit. That is the verdict. Generally people go to the temple, "Lord, give us our daily bread." Just like the Christians go in the church for economic solution: "Give us daily bread." This is also accepted in the Bhagavad-gita as good, because one has gone to God for begging something. But that is not pure devotion. Pure devotion means,

Anyabhilasita-sunyam. One should not have any ulterior motive to approach God. One should approach only God out of love, just like Caitanya Mahaprabhu teaches:

A pure devotee even, he does not want anything from God. He says, aslisya va pada-ratam pinastu mam: "Either You embrace me or You trample me down under Your feet. You make me brokenhearted without being present before me forever, but still You are my worshipable Lord." No condition. If "God, you give me this, then I become Your devotee, otherwise I shall reject You," that is, Prahlada Maharaja says, this is mercantile proposition, vanik vrit. Just like merchants, they give something, they take something. But a pure devotee does not do so. A pure devotee, anyabhilasita-sunyam jnana-karmady-anavrtam.

Jnanis, they also want something, liberation, to merge into the Supreme. There is want. They undergo austerities, penances, aruhya krcchrena param padam tatah [SB 10.2.32]. They are severe, but there is a desire: "I shall become one with God." The yogis, they also undergo severe penances in the mystic yoga system, but there is desire, asta-siddhi. The karmis, they also have desire, they are full of desires: dhanam dehi rupam dehi rupavati bharyam dehi dehi dehi. So everyone has demands-jnani, karmi, yogi. But for the bhakta, Caitanya Mahaprabhu says,

There is no demand. Na danam, everyone is after money. The devotee says, "I don't want money." "Then you take good followers. Become a leader. Thousands of people will follow you." Na janam, "I don't want." Na danam na janam. "Then take good wife, beautiful wife." Na sundarim kavitam va jagad, "No, I don't want." "Then what for you are laboring so much?" Hare Krsna, or,

He does not want even liberation; otherwise why does he say janmani janmani? Liberation means no more janma.

Just see, this is the position of bhakta.

Ahaituki. Ahaituki means without any cause. Not that "I am going to God, or Krsna, for some purpose." No. Therefore the devotees are called akama. Akama means no desires for any material benefit. In the Caitanya-caritamrta there is a verse which says like this:

Bhukti means karmi. They want enjoyment, sense enjoyment in this world, as well as in the heaven-to become just like king of heaven, Indra, or Candra. There are so many planets over earth: Bhur, Bhuvar, Svar, Mahar, Jana, Satya, Siddha, Brahma. So many planetary systems. And in each planetary system the sense enjoyment program is thousand times better than the other planetary system. Just like in this planet also, the European standard of living is far greater than our Indian standard. Similarly, in other planets the standard of living is far greater: ten thousands of years' duration of life, and their one day equal to our six months. Just like Brahma's duration of life is stated in the Bhagavad-gita,

So in the higher planetary systems there is greater comfort, better duration of life, everything better: better wife, better home, better atmosphere. These things are there. But Krsna says,

Krsna says that even if you go to the highest planet, Brahmaloka, then you will have to come back again. "But if you come back to Me, you come back to Godhead, home, then you don't come again in this material world."

So therefore Krsna says that this is dharma. What is that dharma? Mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg 18.66]. And Bhagavata confirms it, dharmah projjhita-kaitavo 'tra paramo nirmatsaranam satam [SB 1.1.2]. Paramo nirmatsaranam. The Bhagavata dharma, or this Krsna consciousness, is meant for the paramo nirmatsaranam.

Sridhara Svami explains, matsarata para-utkarsa-asahanam. One who cannot tolerate other's elevation... That is the rule of this material world. Even if one is your brother, if he advances materially, then I shall be envious: "Oh, he has become so great. I am fallen." That is the nature, enviousness. Therefore this Krsna conscious movement, or Krsna conscious dharma, as it is stated in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, paramo nirmatsaranam: for all paramahamsa, or the paramahamsas, who are not envious of anyone.

The bhaktas, they are para-duhkha-dukhi. They are simply... Prahlada Maharaja says. Prahlada Maharaja says to Nrsimhadeva, "My dear Lord, I am not afraid of this material existence. Not at all."

"I am not afraid of this material world." Why? Na tvad-virya-gayana-mahamrta-magna-cittah: "Because I have now learned how to be happy," tvad-virya-gayana-mahamrta. "By glorifying You, I find the nectar of ocean, and I am dipped into that, so I have no..., I have no fear."

"Then what do you want?"

"I am simply thinking of these rascals," vimudhan-it is not my coined word-vimudhan, "who are simply laboring hard day and night for a pleasure which is maya, useless. I am simply thinking for them, how to get them delivered from these clutches of maya, that they are working so hard day and night simply for a flimsy pleasure, yan maithunadi-grhamedhi-sukham hi tuccham. So I am thinking only."

So this dharma, as Krsna prescribes,

That will give the greatest pleasure, the highest relief from this material world. In another place, when Prahlada Maharaja was inquired by Nrsimhadeva, "Are you afraid of My these ferocious features?" he said, "No, Sir, not at all. I am simply afraid of this material existence. I am not afraid of Your this fearceful feature, although I am a child. Although Brahma and others, they have become afraid; Laksmiji also, who is always Your consort, she is also afraid.

But I am not afraid." The position of the devotee is like that. Narayana-parah sarve na kutascana bibhyati [SB 6.17.28]. They are not afraid of this material world, they are not after this liberation, mukti, anywhere, svargapavarga-narakesv api tulyartha-darsinah . They simply want that "Wherever I may be, let me chant Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna." That is their aim.

So this dharma, as taught by Sri Krsna, satatam kirtayanto mam [Bg 9.14], the same dharma is taught by Lord Caitanya:

So this Krsna consciousness movement is the sublime dharma. It is not our creation; it is the verdict of the Srimad-Bhagavatam.

That is first-class religion, paro dharmo. There are aparo dharma... Just like two natures there are: material nature and spiritual nature. Similarly, there are two kinds of dharma: material dharma and spiritual dharma. So this Krsna consciousness movement is for developing spiritual dharma, not material dharma. Material dharma is dharma artha kama moksa, and spiritual dharma, jivasya tattva-jijnasa, athato brahma-jijnasa, na artha yas ceha karmabhih [SB 1.2.10].

So this dharma is eternal dharma, because Krsna is eternal, we are also eternal. Eternal means sanatana. Krsna is sanatana. In the Eleventh Chapter of Bhagavad-gita Krsna is described as sanatana, and in the Fifteenth Chapter of Bhagavad-gita the jiva is also described as sanatana, and perhaps in the Eighth Chapter the spiritual world is also described as sanatana. So when these three sanatanas combine together, that is called sanatana-dharma.

Sanatana-dharma does not mean that dressing in a particular way or keeping a tuft. Sanatana-dharma means to be engaged eternally in the service of the Supreme Eternal. Nityo nityananam cetanas cetananam, the supreme nitya, the supreme cetana, living entity, the Supreme Lord and the supreme..., the eternal servant. When this relationship is again revived... We have now lost, because our eternal nature is to serve. But we are trying to be master. That is illusion. Not only master, but at the end we are trying to be one with the Supreme also.

This desire is the disease wherefrom we are suffering in this material existence. Therefore Krsna said,

"Take assurance from Me." You take this system. This is the system. Caitanya Mahaprabhu begins His teaching from this point. If one understands perfectly well the Bhagavad-gita and the last teaching of Lord Krsna,

That is called saranagati, "I surrender," and that is the ultimate goal. But those who are engaged in mental speculation or empiric knowledge, philosophical speculation, they will take long, long time to come to this point.

That kind of mahatma we try to create by this Krsna consciousness movement: unflinching faith in Krsna.

So this Krsna consciousness movement is authorized, scientific, confirmed by great persons, acaryas, not in the past-Vyasadeva, Narada, Devala, Asita-but within say two thousand years: Ramanujacarya, Madhvacarya, Nimbarka, Visnu Svami and, latest, within five hundred years, by Lord Caitanya, and five thousand years Lord Krsna.

So the question was raised, dharma. So from the angle of vision of this Krsna consciousness Society we accept this ultimate dharma to surrender to Krsna, and Bhagavata confirms,

It is not that this surrendering process is meant for the less intelligent class. It is the highest intelligent class, because Krsna says, "After many, many births, one who is executing the philosophical speculation, after many, many births he will surrender unto Me." Vasudeve... "That time, when he surrenders unto Me he will understand that vasudevah sarvam iti." [Bg 7.19]

When he will understand, then he will surrender. But the intelligent man, he will see, "If this is the ultimate goal of life, why not surrender immediately?" That is intelligence. That is real knowledge. Surrender immediately. Why you should wait for many, many births? No necessity. You immediately surrender and become liberated. What is that liberation? Sa gunan samatityaitan brahma-bhuyaya kalpate.

So this is the process of Krsna consciousness movement, and we request all of you to try to understand it very seriously and take to it, and you will become happy.

Thank you very much. Hare Krsna. [end]