Montreal, June 26, 1968
Prabhupada: ...how Krsna's money is being stolen by this coward. Stena eva sa ucyate [Bg. 3.12]. Anyone who is using Krsna's money without acknowledging, he is a thief. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita. Stena eva sa ucyate: he's a thief. So in this material world, one who has no Krsna consciousness, one who is not using things in Krsna consciousness... Everyone is using Krsna's... Nobody has got any property. Isavasyam idam sarvam [Iso mantra 1]. Everything belongs to Krsna. That is the version in Isopanisad. Now, in this American land, now divided into Canada, North America, South America, but originally, to whom this land belongs? It belongs to Krsna. You have come here and have divided Krsna's property and you have named "This is Canada, this is North America, this is South America," and you are claiming proprietorship. But if you are asked, "Are you really proprietor?" No. You have come here, encroached upon others' property. So originally, you are thief. Actually this is the position, that anyone who is unlawfully claiming something, "It is mine," that is illusion. Janasya moho 'yam aham mameti [SB 5.5.8]. This aham mameti, "It is mine, and it is I. This body, I. And in bodily relation, everything mine," these two things are illusion. Aham mameti. Aham means "I." What "I"? This body. And what "mine"? This, "My wife is mine, my children, my home, my country." Why? Because the bodily relationship is there.
So the original platform, that I am not this body, then every relationship becomes false, illusion. This is stated in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, how this illusion develops. The illusion develops because it is the kingdom of maya. Maya is attracting us. What is that attracting force? That attracting force is for man, woman; and for woman, man. This is attractive. This whole world is going on, not only in the human society, but in dog society, cat society, hog society, bird society—everywhere—the woman is attractive for man, and man is attractive for woman. This is maya. This is maya. So Srimad-Bhagavata says that this attractive feature is pulling on this material existence. Therefore the training is how to detract. In the beginning the brahmacari training is given because to know that this body, woman body, is actually not attractive. What is this attractive? This is made of flesh and blood. Similarly for woman, if I analyze the man's body, or woman's, what is there? Flesh and blood. But that flesh and blood is very attractive? That story, perhaps I have enunciated, that beauty was kept in a pot? Do you remember? Huh? I may repeat that story again, that one girl was very beautiful, and one boy was after him (her). But in India the boys and girls are not allowed to mix freely unless they are husband and wife. So this girl was married, but she was not very rich. But that boy was very rich and he was after her. He was always proposing her. And she became perplexed, that "He is rich man. If I don't agree, then he may do some harm to my husband, to me." So she made a plan that "All right. I agree to your proposal. You come to my house in such and such night. I'll be engaged with you." Oh, he was very... In the meantime, (s)he took some purgative pill, strong. So for six, seven days, she simply purged out all the beauty in vomiting and in passing stool. So those vomits and stools were kept in two pots. And naturally, if you pass stool for one day, your feature becomes immediately ugly. That is a fact. So she passed stool and vomiting seven days. Naturally, she became very ugly. So when the boy came, she was sitting there on the door. The boy was asking, "Where is such and such girl?" She said, "Yes, I am. I am here." "No, you are not her. Oh, she is so beautiful, and you are so ugly." "No, I am the same girl." "Why you have become so ugly?" "Because I have extracted my beauty.' "Where is that?" "Just see in these two pots." (laughter) "So if you like, you can enjoy this beauty." (laughter)
So actually, if we dissect our body, then the beauty things, they are within, some stool, some urine, some intestines, some brains, some muscles, some blood. These will be found. This is called maya. But that stool, urine, muscle, brains, and intestines are so nicely decorated that it can attract you. It has got a full attraction, both for the boys and the girls. Bhagavata has done nice that the illusion of this world is that attraction. What is that attraction? False attraction. The man is attracted by woman, woman is attracted by man. And the business is going on. Especially in this country, I see the girls are attracting by their bodily features in so many ways. You see? So similarly boys are attracting girls by so many features, especially by nice motorcar and so many things. So in every society, according to the standard of living, according..., these attractive features are going on. In birds, beasts... And when they are united... Everyone is trying to attract others. A girl is trying to attract another boy, the boy is trying to attract another girl. These attracting features is going on. And as soon as they are actually attracted and joined together, the illusion becomes doubly knotted. Tayor mitha hrdaya-granthim ahur. Hrdaya-granthim means everything is within the heart. If I study, "Oh, what is this attraction?" if I understand how it is simply combination of blood, stool and urine and intestine and muscle and skin and hair and nails, then if I study philosophically, so what is there? Have I got any attraction for all these things? No. So it is all false. Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu said that ceto-darpana-marjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12], that if we clarify our heart, then we become liberated. So this Hare Krsna chanting process is clarifying.
So tayor mitha hrdaya-granthim ahur. As soon as a man and woman is combined together, that means the knot of material attraction becomes doubly tightened. Then they want apartment, grha. Ato grha-ksetra. Ksetra means... Of course, nowadays everyone is seeking after employment, but formerly nobody, there was no industry, no big business. Everyone has to produce something, foodstuff, out of the ksetra, field. So if you become a family man you must have some source of income. That source of income is land, as Rayarama was explaining you. Actually the land is the source of income. If you can utilize the land, then there is everything stocked there. This same example can be given. This American land was lying vacant, but since the Europeans took possession of that, at least they have exploited the resources. So everything was on the land. So land is really property. So grha-ksetra, apartment, land. Grha-ksetra-suta. As soon as they have married, they require, they at least desire to have a child. At least, the girl wants. Although now the process is different, but the hankering is that girls, women, they want child. That is sentiment. Ato grha-ksetra-suta apta. Apta means relatives. Grha-ksetra-sutapta-vittair [SB 5.5.8]. Vittair means wealth, some bank balance. In this way go on increasing. Janasya moho 'yam. This is the moha, this is illusion. So this illusion is so strong that we are going on increasing, increasing, increasing, increasing. Nobody is thinking that "I am increasing the requisites of the body, but I am not this body; I am soul. What is the requisition of the soul?" This is conclusion. They have forgotten. Real interest they have forgotten. The superficial interest. The same example can be given. Just like if you simply soap your shirt and coat and do not take care of your real body, or do not feed your body, then how long we shall exist? My Guru Maharaja used to give one nice example that a man was drowning. Another man came, that "I shall save this man." So he jumped on the water, and when coming out of the water he brought the shirt and coat: "Now I have saved the man." The so-called service, or any service which is going on, that is serving the shirt and coat. Nobody is serving the soul. That is the mistake of modern civilization. There are many hospitals to cure the bodily diseases, but there is no hospital to cure the disease of the soul.
So this Krsna consciousness movement is to cure the disease of the soul. Disease of the soul. Every soul, every person, is mistaken to accept this body as his self or the mind as his self. This is the difference. Yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke, sa eva go-kharah [SB 10.84.13]. Anyone who is accepting this body as self, he's either an ass or a cow. Misconception. So people are not interested. We are trying, the Bhagavad-gita is trying. In the beginning, beginning of the instruction... Just like Arjuna was identifying himself with this body in the beginning, and he was thinking that "He is my grandfather, he is my son, he is my nephew, he is my...,." so on, so on. Krsna replied him. When Arjuna was unable to make a solution of his problems, he surrendered to Krsna and said, sisyas te 'ham sadhi mam prapannam: [Bg. 2.7] "I surrender unto You as Your disciple. Please save me from this (sic:) perpetry." Then Krsna in the first instance replied, asocyan anvasocas tvam prajna-vadams ca bhasase: [Bg. 2.11] "My dear Arjuna..." Because he accepted Krsna as spiritual master, so spiritual master has the right to chide his disciple. So He immediately chided him, that asocyan anvasocas tvam prajna-vadams ca bhasase. "My dear Arjuna, you are talking just like a very learned man, but you are fool number one." That was His first words. Of course, He did not say directly "fool number one," but He said indirectly that "No learned man speaks like this, as you are speaking." That means, "You are not learned man. You are fool." He indirectly said, nanusocanti panditah. Pandita means learned. "No learned man speaks like that. But because you are speaking like that, that means you are not learned man. Or in one word, you are fool." Because before Krsna, he was speaking that "If I kill my family members, then such and such thing will happen. Then the women will become polluted and there will be unwanted children, varna-sankara. And as soon as there is varna-sankara, full of unwanted children, this world will be hell." These are facts. These are facts. The world has become hell due to unwanted children. That is the fact. So Krsna was speaking... Arjuna was speaking just like ordinary gentleman on the material field, but Krsna, when He took up his charge, He said that "You are hovering over the material plane. That is not your learning. The learning is when you understand from the spiritual platform."
"The panditah, the learned man, he does not lament over the body, either living or dead." Because bodily platform is not the subject matter for understanding of philosophical research. Bodily platform is not very important. The spiritual platform is important, but nobody is discussing about spiritual platform. Everyone is, all the education centers, the universities, they are, I mean to say, busy studying chemistry, physics, and biology, mathematics. At most, little philosophy. That is also on mental speculation, theory. Somebody is giving some theory; somebody's giving (another) theory. But nobody discussing about the eternal spirit soul. That is the defect of this modern civilization.
So it is very hard task for us to convince them, but the fact is this. Either they accept or not accept, it is our misfortune or their misfortune, but the fact is this, that as Caitanya Mahaprabhu said, or as Lord Krsna said, that mamaivamso jiva-bhutah: [Bg. 15.7] "All these living entities are My part and parcels." So what is the duty of part and parcel? The part and parcel is... Of course, the same example. Just my, this hand is part and parcel of the body. So the duty of the hand is to serve the whole body. That's all. There is no other duty. The hand cannot eat out of his own account. The hand cannot do anything out of its own account. The direction should be from the whole, from me, and then the hand should work. This is the part and parcel duty. And Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, jivera svarupa haya nitya krsna dasa [Cc. Madhya 20.108-109]. Just like my hand, my leg, or my tongue, they are all servants of me and the whole, similarly everyone, every living entity, is the eternal servant of the Supreme, supreme controller. So the duty of everyone is to serve Him. That is natural duty. That is natural. Any other position is diseased condition. In other words, who is not acting in Krsna consciousness, he is diseased. The treatment is this Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare. Just like when a man is bitten by a serpent, there is some mantra. Of course, I do not know whether you have got this experience, but India there are experts who, simply by chanting mantra, he can give life to a man who is bitten by serpent. Mantrausadhi-vasah sarpah. Mantra and ausadhi. Ausadhi means there are herbs. Of course, these things are now gone, but there, still there are persons. So even the mantra can give a so-called dead man bitten by serpent. Similarly, we are bitten by the serpent of maya, and this mantra, Hare Krsna, will raise him to consciousness, Krsna consciousness. This is effect.
Now you can speak.
Janardana: The predicament of mankind... [break]
Prabhupada: There is nice verse in which it is stated that,
sarvasya caham hrdi sannivisto
mattah smrtir jnanam apohanam ca
vedais ca sarvair aham eva vedyam
vedanta-vid vedanta-krd caham
The purport of this verse is that "I am situated in everyone's heart." Sarvasya caham hrdi sannivisto. Isvarah sarva-bhutanam hrd-dese 'rjuna... [Bg. 18.61]. Everyone's heart, Krsna is there, or the Paramatma is there. And mattah smrtir jnanam apohanam ca [Bg. 15.15]. And all the speculation or real understanding or forgetfulness or real knowledge, they are coming, being initiated from Him. Mattah: "from Me." Smrtir means memory; jnana means knowledge. Apohanam ca: "forgetfulness." Everything is... Forgetfulness is also from Him. Knowledge is also from Him. Memory is also from Him. And vedais, vedais means all books of knowledge. Vedais ca sarvair. Sarvair means all varieties. It is not that simply the four Vedas, as we accept in India, Sama, Yajur, Rg, Atharva. No. Any authorized scripture, that is Vedas. Any authorized scripture. Vedais ca sarvair. "All kinds of Vedas, they are searching after Me." The knowledge... Actually, the destination of knowledge, as Sriman Janardana... What we are searching after? He has summarized that we are searching after happiness. That's a fact. But we do not know where the happiness is there. That is our... Searching, I am... Subject matter of searching is happiness. Everyone in this material world is after happiness. But unfortunately, one has no information where is the happiness. That remembrance can be... Where is the happiness? That can be had from the Supersoul, who is sitting with you within your heart. Within your heart. Because Krsna says that "I am sitting in everyone's heart as Supersoul, and from Me, intelligence, memory, knowledge, forgetfulness—everything—is being happened."
Now the question is why one is in forgetfulness and why one is in Krsna consciousness? Is it a fact that Krsna is dealing with different persons differently, that one is being fully in Krsna consciousness and another is in different consciousness, or forgetting Krsna? Apohanam. That is also due to Krsna. Why? Because Krsna is very merciful. The why answer can be given that Krsna is very merciful. How merciful? One is given forgetfulness. How Krsna is merciful? Yes, He's merciful. How is it? Because he wanted to forget Krsna. He wanted to forget Krsna, so Krsna will give him such sources of forgetfulness that he'll never be able to understand what is Krsna. "You enjoy. You want to forget Krsna, or God? All right. I'll give you intelligence so that you will never be able to understand what is God." Not exactly memory... Because living entity, sometimes by good association will come... So this is not Krsna's partiality. He has given everyone a little quantity of independence. Just like these boys who have come here, that is out of independence. They are playing, but out of independence they have come. And they may sit down for some time and out of independence may go away. So this independence is there even in the ant, even in the worm and everywhere, because we are part and parcel of God and God is fully independent. But we cannot be fully independent. Just like in the state. You are belonging to an independent state, but that does not mean that you can do anything and everything. You have no such independence. There is state law and order. Similarly, as in the state we are independent citizens, but if we violate law and order, then we shall be punished. It is very simple thing. But the rascal civilization, they say God is dead. How God can be dead? The law of God are acting so nicely. How God can be dead? That means he wanted to forget God, so he has come to the conclusion, "God is dead." He has come to this conclusion. While, on the other hand, who wants God, they are perfectly visioning that "Next life I am going to meet God face to face." This intelligence is given to him by God also. That is also stated in the Bhagavad-gita.
"Those who are constantly engaged with love and faith in My service, tesam, buddhi-yogam dadami, I give them such intelligence by which gradually they make progress to come back to Me."
So actually, although we have got independence, we have got consciousness, we have got power of thinking, of understanding, but it is limited. Therefore we don't agree with one another. However I may be big philosopher, I may be very big philosopher, very logician, but as soon as another big logician, another big philosopher comes, he defeats me. That is the way. And every philosopher, every logician is trying to defeat your theory, as you are trying to defeat others' theories. This is going on. So as Sriman Janardana said, the knowledge which you are searching in different ways, that is impossible to come to the conclusion. Because we are searching with... However I may accept this method or that method or that method, but accepting the method means employing my senses. But the senses are imperfect. Either I accept this or that, I have to work with my senses. There are no other instruments. So when senses are imperfect, so whatever method you accept, that will be imperfect. Then which method will be perfect? That method will be perfect, as it is stated in the Bhagavad-gita, mattah smrtir jnanam apohanam ca [Bg. 15.15]. When Krsna from within yourself will give you right direction, then you'll come to the ultimate destination. Otherwise, whatever, however a great philosopher, scientist, or anything you may be, you'll simply hover on the material, mental plane. That's all.
So either you call perfect knowledge or you call happiness, anything, what you call, if you want to know the ultimate goal of your life perfectly, you have to follow a different method. A different method. That method is called avaroha-pantha. There are... All methods of acquiring knowledge can be divided into two groups. One group is called aroha-pantha, or research, inductive process. And another method is called deductive process, or avaroha-pantha. The knowledge coming from the supreme source, that is called avaroha-pantha, and the knowledge which is being sought after by using our imperfect senses, that is called aroha-pantha. Ascending process and descending process. So by ascending process, we can never come to the real knowledge. That is not possible, because our senses are imperfect. How we can ascend? Just like people are trying to ascend to the higher planetary system, but the instrument, sputnik itself, is imperfect. How you can go there? You can go 25,000 miles, again come back. Punar musiko bhava. So this is going on. Because we are imperfect in every respect, so therefore we have to receive knowledge from the perfect. That is the process, real process. If your knowledge... Just like Janardana suggested three processes, one by applying our senses, another by accepting knowledge from others, and another, rejection. Two ways. Or skepticism, make void. So this is out of frustration. So make the mind void, no more thinking. And knowledge by imperfect senses, that will always remain imperfect. And knowledge from others, that is real goal. But provided you receive that knowledge from the perfect... As we have given several times the example, just like a child wants to know who is his father. Now if he searches out "Who is my father?" he asks everybody, "Are you my father? Are you my father? Are you my father?" he will have to go on searching. Then again if he asks his neighbor, "Who is my father?" the neighbor also may not know and may give him misinformation. So that is also not possible. But if he goes to his mother and his mother is sincere and perfect, she can give, "My dear boy, he is your father." That is perfect. So neither by researching one can find out his father, neither by employing his imperfect senses. But if he receives the knowledge from the sincere mother, then the knowledge is perfect. And he has no other alternative to know who is his father except the source of a sincere mother. Similarly, the Bhagavat says, acintyah khalu ye bhava na tams tarkena yojayet. Things which are beyond your power of realization, don't try to understand by your so-called logic and argument. All nonsense. All nonsense.
Tarkah apratisthah. This process of argument and logic, gymnasium, is imperfect always. You cannot realize what is the ultimate goal of life. Tarkah apratisthah srutayo vibhinna. Sruta means Vedas or books of knowledge. There are different kinds of theories and doctrines. So if you read those books, unless you are very nicely directed, that will create also perplexity. Srutayo vibhinnam. And so far philosophical speculation is concerned, the Bhagavata says that nasau muni yasya matam na bhinnam. Muni means mental speculator. So you cannot find any mental speculator who is not differing from another mental speculator. So tarkah apratisthah, the path of so-called logic and argument, is not perfect. Then, simply if you study different books of knowledge, that will also not give you perfect knowledge. If you consult so-called mental speculators, their different views, then dharmasya tattvam nihitam guhayam. The ultimate goal of life is very confidential and mysterious. And how to know it? Mahajano yena gatah sa panthah [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. Mahajana means the perfect realized souls who have realized, you have to follow them. That's all. Mahajano yena gatah sa panthah. Therefore this process of Krsna consciousness is accepting the mahajana, the authority. The first authority is Krsna. From Krsna, Arjuna is hearing. There is no question about it. Now if you simply understand as Arjuna understood, then you have got the perfect knowledge. And if you speculate, if you try to comment in your own nonsense way, then you are misled immediately. So this is the way. Mahajano yena gatah sa panthah [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. Mahajana means those who are perfect personalities. That will give you (?). That will do (?). Now, there are, according to Vedic system, there are twelve mahajanas. They are all in agreement that the supreme power is the Absolute Personality of Godhead. And they have become all devotees, they have served, they have prescribed rules and regulations. You can... So if we follow these rules and regulations and the mahajana, and many... As it is stated in Bhagavatam, that those who have followed, they have got perfection. You can get also perfection, there is no doubt about it. Simply you have to follow the footprints of the acaryas. Then your life will be perfect.
Thank you. If there is any question, you can ask.
Guest: What is the best time to (indistinct)?
Devotee: Early in the morning. (talking very low in background)
Guest: How do you know how to follow the footsteps of the mahajanas?
Prabhupada: There is a parampara, or disciplic succession of mahajanas. Just like Krsna is the original authority. Now the parampara system is there. From Krsna, Brahma heard; from Brahma, Narada. If we do not go so far... Now, Krsna spoke to Arjuna. Arjuna is mahajana therefore. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gita that "Because you are My devotee, you are in full Krsna consciousness; therefore I am speaking to you this confidential yoga system, Bhagavad-gita." Bhakto 'si priyo 'si me [Bg. 4.3]. Rahasyam hy etad uttamam. "The process was there. Now it is lost. So I am speaking to you again the old system because you are My devotee." Similarly those, or one person who is accepting the version of Arjuna, as Arjuna understood Krsna, he is maha jana, and you have to follow him. That's all. If somebody is speaking something against as Arjuna understood, he is not a mahajana. He's a rascal. The simple test. And you go to the Tenth Chapter, Bhagavad-gita. Arjuna says, "Krsna," sarvam etad rtam manye yan vadasi kesava [Bg. 10.14], "whatever You are speaking, I accept it in toto, without any minus." This is mahajana. Not that according to my whims, I cut something, I accept something. No. One who is accepting the version of Arjuna or Krsna, he is mahajana. You can follow him. That's all. It is simple thing. You haven't got to find out who is mahajana. The mahajana means who is following another mahajana, say follow Arjuna. He is mahajana. [break] ...to read Bhagavad-gita and try to understand how Arjuna understood it, then you get... And anyone following the footprints of Arjuna, he's mahajana. (end)
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