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680610SB.MON
Prabhupada:
kaumara acaret prajno
dharman bhagavatan iha durlabham manusam janma tad apy adhruvam arthadam [SB 7.6.1] This instruction of Prahlada Maharaja to his class fellows we are discussing for the last few days. His point of view is that this Bhagavata-dharma or the occupational duty in relationship with God. Everyone has got some sort of engagement, occupation. Bhagavata says
atah pumbhir dvija-srestha
varnasrama-vibhagasah svanusthitasya dharmasya samsiddhir hari-tosanam [SB 1.2.13] Everyone is engaged in a particular type of occupational duty. Never mind what is that occupation. You may be a religious priest, you may be a politician, you may be a nationalist, you may be a chemist, you may be a physist(physicist), you may be a philosopher, you may be a businessman, engineer, whatever you may be. It doesn't matter. You may be Christian, you may be Hindu, you may be dark, you may be white, whatever is there. You have got a particular type of duty. Nobody is without any occupation. Everyone is engaged some sort of duty. The storekeeper is engaged in his business, the factory man is engaged in his business, the lawyer is engaged in his business. Everyone. Suta Gosvami said, atah pumbhir dvija-srestha varnasrama-vibhagasah. There are different kinds of duties according to the different division of the human society. That is a fact. Nobody can deny it. But how one can understand that the duty he is performing is successful? How one can understand? What is the test? You may be whatever you are doing, that doesn't matter. But how it is tested, that whatever you have done in your whole life, it has become successful. The test is, according to Bhagavatam, svanusthitasya dharmasya. Everyone's duty, the point of perfection is samsiddhir hari-tosanam [SB 1.2.13], whether by your duty you have satisfied the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is the duty. Then it is perfect. You are a great scientist? Very good. But if you can prove scientifically that there is God, that is successful. Otherwise, it is nonsense. If you prove that there is no God, God is dead by scientific method, it is simply lunacy, craziness. That's all. Similarly, if you are philosopher, very expert in mental speculation and writing volumes of books, speculative, but if you can prove that there is God, then your philosophy is perfect. Any line you take.
Suppose you are a businessman. Formerly, in any part of the world... We have seen in your country, in my country. There are many old churches, old mosques, old temples. In India there are temples just like a fort. Acres of land occupying big, big temples. So who has constructed these temples? Must be rich men, businessmen, landlords, princely order. Why? Because they wanted to satisfy God. Either you manufacture, either you construct a church or temple or mosque, it does not matter. The idea behind is that he wanted that he has labored so hard, he has accumulated so much money, "Let me spend something for God." But at the present moment there are so many skyscrapers, but nobody is constructing a nice church. This is the result of godless civilization. The mentality is changed, that formerly they... This Bhagavata-sutra is samsiddhir hari-tosanam [SB 1.2.13].
I'll give you one practical example. In my householder life I was a drugstore businessman. So one Muhammadan gentleman, he was supplying me bottles. So by doing this bottle business he accumulated some money. So one day I asked this old man, his name was Abdula. "Well, Mr. Abdula, you have got some now money, I can understand. So how you are going to use it?" So he said, "My dear sir, I am thinking of constructing a mosque." He was Muhammadan. Just see his mentality, that he wanted... He accumulated some money, but now he wants to satisfy God constructing a big temple or constructing... You'll find in India some old temples. There are so many nice workmanship in stone. That means spent thousands and thousands of dollars. In here also I find so many nice churches, they have been spent by persons. What is the idea? The idea is anyone who has got some money, he wanted to satisfy God. So it doesn't matter what you are doing, but the test of your success will be considered as successful if you try to satisfy God. Because we are, whole life, we are dragging from God. "God give us our daily bread," and God is supplying daily bread. Otherwise, where you are getting bread? You say, "I am purchasing from the market." Oh, where the storekeeper got this wheat? It is produced by agriculture. But do you think that simply by machine it is now produced? No. Unless there is some natural favorable condition, you cannot produce. There are five causes. The land, labor, capital, organization, and Bhagavad-gita accepts daiva, another cause. Daiva means godly. You may arrange everything but if God is against you, in spite of your all arrangement, everything will be failure. That is described in the Bhagavad-gita. They have searched out five causes for success. So out of the five causes, daiva, daiva means the favor of God, that has been taken as the means for any successful thing.
So Prahlada Maharaja is teaching to his class friends, that "My dear friends, you try to understand this Bhagavata-dharma." What is Bhagavata-dharma? This is Sanskrit word. Bhagavata means pertaining to God. Bhagavan means God and Bhagavata, pertaining to God, that is called Bhagavata. So Bhagavata-dharma, the purpose of Bhagavata-dharma means pertaining to my..., you have to test the success of your activities by pleasing God. That is Bhagavata-dharma. Just like in your office you want to satisfy your boss. In your school or college you want to satisfy your teacher or principal. Similarly, the supreme teacher, the supreme boss is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Samsiddhir hari-tosanam [SB 1.2.13]. This is the sum and substance of Bhagavata-dharma, that one has to test the success of his activities. It doesn't matter what it is.
Now at the present moment in a godless civilization, if some great scientist proves... Just like Professor Einstein, he also said that as we are making advance in science we find that there is a big brain behind this cosmic manifestation. That is acceptance of God. What is that big brain? That big brain is God. The Vedanta-sutra says janmady asya yatah [SB 1.1.1]. Just like when you see a wonderful bridge or wonderful engineering work, you must think that there is a brain behind it. This nice construction, there is a brain behind it. Similarly, those who are sane men, they'll see that with this cosmic, in this cosmic manifestation, so wonderfully working. The sun is rising in due time, the moon is rising in due time, the seasons are being changed in due course, the rain is there, the produce is there, the fruit is there, everything is nicely arranged. So don't you think that there is a brain behind it? Must be. The Bhagavad-gita says mayadhyaksena prakrtih suyate sa-caracaram [Bg. 9.10]. Don't think that this material nature is working automatically or independently. There is a brain behind it.
The other day there was some difficulty in my dictaphone and the mechanic man came. He opened. So many arrangements of different kinds of wires. Similarly, we have got this body, a similar arrangement. The veins are so nicely arrangement, the intestines are so nicely arranged. Just like the same way as in a machine the wirings are very nicely arranged. So if for that machine there is a brain, don't you think that in this machine, behind this, there is no brain? There must be brain. This is common sense affair. So this godless civilization means people have lost even common sense. Even common sense. Otherwise, you may, if you use in a harsh word, that they have become fools and rascals, that's all. They have lost their common sense.
So Prahlada Maharaja is stressing that this God consciousness or Krsna consciousness should be learned from the very beginning of life. Kaumara acaret prajna. Prajna means one who is intelligent. So children, they have no intelligence. They have intelligence, but they have to be put into intelligence by the guardians. So if the guardian, if the father and mother is intelligent, if the teacher is intelligent, if the government policy is intelligent, then the process should be to teach the small children from the very beginning of life God consciousness, Krsna consciousness. Otherwise this world is going to hell. It has already gone and it will go. The result will be that I'll kill you, you'll kill me. So both of us will be killed. And this human form, or the facility of this human form of life, which was given to us by grace of God or by the mercy of material nature, Prahlada Maharaja says that "Don't misuse it. Don't misuse it like animals, simply eating, sleeping, and mating and defending." Durlabham manusam janma. Don't be assured that your next life is going again to be a human form of life. It may be... There are 8,400,000 species of life and according to my work I may enter into any type of body. Durlabham. Therefore this rare opportunity that we have got this human form of life, manusam durlabham janma, durlabham manusam janma tad apy adhruvam. And it will not exist for very long time. But if you utilize it properly then you can achieve the greatest boon. What is that? Krsna consciousness. You can achieve the greatest boon. So Prahlada Maharaja is recommending that "From the very childhood, my dear friends, you learn what is God consciousness or Krsna consciousness. Otherwise, if you advance in age, then you'll be more complicated, more complicated."
Actually, we are experiencing. We have got about eight branches of our this movement. Not only this movement, any movement. Generally, these youngsters, they are being attracted. Any nice movement started, the youngsters, they become more attracted. Not the, I mean to say, elderly people. Because elderly people, whatever they have understood, it takes to forget for some time. But if they try they can also understand. But Prahlada Maharaja is recommending that before growing very old, from the childhood, receptive state, one should learn this Krsna consciousness. Otherwise, he says,
He has analyzed the life, that our duration of life may be for one hundred years. Out of that, fifty years we spoil by sleeping, because at night we sleep ten hours, twelve hours. There is 24 hours duration of day and night. So supposing that I sleep for 12 hours, day and night, then actually I live fifty years, because sleeping is death. That is also daily death. The sleeping... What is the different between death and sleeping? There is no difference. Just like at the present moment we are sleeping, say, for 12 hours or 8 hours or 10 hours and getting up in the next morning, and death means we shall sleep for seven months continually, and when we get up I see another body. That is birth and death. That is birth and death. Death means you give up this body. "You" means the soul. And you carry yourself with your subtle body, mind, intelligence and ego. According to your mental situation you enter into the womb of a mother injected by the semina of your father, you get an opportunity to grow another body. It takes about seven months to grow that body. So during this period, I mean to say, quitting this body, entering into another body and to develop that body, come to the consciousness point of view, it takes seven months. So death means sleeping for seven months.
So this sleeping, our daily sleeping is also a sample of death. We are experiencing for 12 hours only or 10 hours only, but this death means you'll have to sleep for seven months, then when you wake up you'll see that you have got another body. That's all. Just like you are getting every moment a different body, similarly, death, birth and death means to change this body and to get another, new body. Vasamsi jirnani yatha vihaya [Bg. 2.22]. The Bhagavad-gita says that just like we change one set of garment which is not usable. We throw it away and take another set of garment, similarly, when this body is old enough, it cannot be pulled on, the machine has gone wrong, it cannot work anymore, that is called death. You stop breathing, but you are transferred, transmigrated to another body. So death we are experiencing daily. So out of hundred years, old age, age, the span of life, we are practically dead for fifty years because we are sleeping. Then the fifty years, out of the remaining fifty years, in our childhood we are very much fond of sporting and playing. So twenty years by playing. So seventy years gone. Then during old age, family adjustment, so many things not done, thinking, thinking, another twenty years. So in this way, unless we are trained up in our childhood about the science of Krsna consciousness, or God consciousness, it will be very difficult to take up this consciousness with our grown up age. Prahlada Maharaja is therefore recommending, kaumara acaret prajno dharman bhagavatan iha [SB 7.6.1]. He's giving practical example that
When you are grown up... Nanu yauvane grhasakto 'pi pasyad viraktah syan ksemam yac chreyat tat asambhavam darsayan kaumaram eva acaret. Now we have general tendency... The Sankaracarya said... He was walking on the street, a sannyasi. The sannyasi's business is to walk from village to village, town to town, and approach the householder as beggar: "Mother, give me something to eat." He's not a beggar, but he takes the position of beggar. Because everyone is charitably disposed, he thinks proud, "Oh, here is a nice beggar, sannyasi, let me give him something." But the sannyasi's desire is to introduce himself as a beggar so that the householder can take up the advantage that "Here is a sannyasi. Please come on." Naturally he'll ask something, "Swamiji, what is this? What is this?" So he'll get some opportunity to speak something.
So naturally we are inclined to enjoy this life. So if somebody thinks that "Now I am young man, let me enjoy my senses." At the present moment, youth, the senses are very, I mean to say, in order. So let us enjoy it. And when we get old age, when their senses will not be so expert for enjoyment, then we shall think of Krsna consciousness or God consciousness. That is the general tendency. Or the children they think, "Let us play." So Sankaracarya says, balasya tavat kriyasakta. "Oh, what I am seeing? All the children in the street I see they're all engaged in playing," tarunas tavat taruni-raktah. "And the young boys and girls, they are after sex." So tarunas tavat taruni-raktah, vrddhas tavat cinta-magnah. And the old men, they are very thoughtful how to adjust the so big family. "This son is not yet posted in a nice post, the daughter is not married." So many things. So old man is thoughtful, thinking, and the young men, they are after boys and girls, and the children, they are playing. So Sankaracarya is lamenting, balasya tavad kriyasaktas tarunas tavat taruni-raktah, vrddhas tavat cinta-magnah parame brahmani ko 'pi na lagnah. "I do not see anybody searching after God consciousness." Every one is engaged in a different way.
So unless we train the children from the very beginning of life, just we send to school, they learn so many things, ABCD... Similarly, this Krsna consciousness should be taught from the very beginning. Otherwise, while he's grown up, either he'll be engaged in searching after boy or girl or in playing or in family matters, or so many problems, to solve, so many problems, political, social. They'll be all engaged. Then one day, (makes sound) khat!, the death will come. The cruel death will not wait. "Oh, my dear sir, now come on." "Oh, I have got so many duties." "No. Finished. Come on." I have seen practically. One of my friends at Allahabad, he died at the age of 54 years. He was very rich man, doing business. So he was seriously ill, and he was begging the doctor, "My dear doctor, can you not give me at least four years life more? I have got some scheme, I could not finish it." Just see. Everyone is thinking like that. He has got a scheme, but he has no scheme where he is going either to hell or heaven. That scheme he has forgotten. He's trying to make scheme so long this fifty years, hundred years. You see? This is going on. Parame brahmani ko 'pi na lagnah. So Prahlada Maharaja says, "Don't misuse your, this boon of life, this human form of life. Just begin from the beginning."
Just like there is affection, attraction. This gentleman, my friend, who was begging from the doctor, "Doctor, another four years duration of life." Why? He has got so much attachment. So once we are attached to this material way of life it is very difficult. It is very difficult. So brahmacari is trained that this cosmic manifestation in which we are put by chance, this is temporary. Everything will be finished today or tomorrow or after a hundred years. But just try to understand that you are eternal. Sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah [Bs. 5.1]. Na jayate na mriyate kadacit. You have no death, you have no birth. Your, the birth and death is due to this body. That's all. Just like I told you, death means sleeping for seven months, again rise up. Suptotthito nyaya. Just like in the morning, while sleeping, you forget everything, but as soon as you get up from the bed you remember everything, "Oh, I have to do this, I have to go there, I have to do this." So many things you remember. Similarly, as soon as we get our again consciousness in next body, then our another batch of duty begins according to the body.
That is also explained, deha-yogena dehinam. Another standard of sense gratification. Because the human body's sense gratification is different from dog's body's sense gratification. Or European sense gratification is different from African sense gratification because it is due to the body. So wherever you take your birth, in this planet or another planet, or this family or that family, this nation or that, that sense gratification arrangement is already there according to your body. You cannot improve it. If a dog likes to gratify his senses like a man, it is not possible because he has got a particular type of body. Deha-yogena dehinam. So that sense... Just like a dog has no economic problems. So a cat has no economic problems, a bird has no economic problem. But we civilized human being, we have got economic problem. Why? Now, because the advanced consciousness which are to be used for understanding our relationship with God, we are utilizing, misusing it for sense gratification. The advanced consciousness which was given to us by the law of nature, to utilize it to understand what is God, what is my relationship with Him, and what is my duty in that relationship, this is the boon to understand in the human life, but we don't care for it.
That is the misunderstanding of this present civilization. We are trying to improve the dog civilization. What is that dog civilization? A dog sleeps. So we are trying to improve the accommodation of sleeping. Dog eats. Oh, we are trying to improve the condition of our eating. The dog eats some meat, but we are not meat-eaters, but we want to imitate dog, so therefore we have to arrange so many things. We have to maintain a big slaughterhouse. So dog has no problem, but we have got problems. Because we are misusing our advanced consciousness simply in the same way as the dog. Eating, sleeping, mating or defending. The dog has also defending power. As soon as another dog comes, "Bow, bow, bow." So similarly, we have got defending power, immigration department, visa department, this department, defensive department. What is this? This is all defense. So eating, sleeping, defense, or sex life is required, but you have got another prerogative. Consciousness. That is to be changed into, that is to be improved into Krsna consciousness or God consciousness. That is your duty. So unless we are trained up to change our consciousness which we have had in many other animal life Because this is evolutionary process. Jalaja nava-laksani. From 900,000 species of life of aquatics, then trees and plants, then reptiles, worms, then birds, then beasts, then uncivilized men, then we have come to this form of civilized men who are, there is intelligence for production, there is nice brain for so many things. So how it should be utilized? Prahlada Maharaja says it should be utilized for understanding God consciousness, Krsna consciousness. Otherwise, it is simply a misuse of life. Thank you very much.
Woman: You say that Krsna consciousness people should start at an early age, but does that mean we should consider ourselves at age of a very small child towards beginning Krsna consciousness?
Prabhupada: Yes. Just like we send small children to nursery school, or preliminary, primary schools. Similarly, because that is the age, receptive age. So Krsna consciousness should be taught from that childhood age. Therefore I wanted that on Sunday, let people send their children here and we shall teach Krsna consciousness. You'll be surprised that in India I approached so many gentlemen, "My dear sir, you have got four boys. Give me one boy. Let me teach Krsna consciousness." So they'll say, "Swamiji, what they'll do learning Krsna consciousness? How they will struggle for existence?" So nobody wants it. Nobody wants. They think that by sending boys to Krsna consciousness school, the boy will be spoiled. That is their idea. Yes.
Guest: Swamiji, you mentioned that death is actually sleeping for seven months?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Guest: Is this provided you take on a human form of life?
Prabhupada: Not necessarily.
Guest: If you take on a dog's body then it's still seven months?
Prabhupada: Not seven months. I am speaking from the human point of view. But that consciousness is, I mean to say, subdued for a few days, a few months, then you get another body. Again consciousness is there, and you begin your work. Even you get human form of life, but if you do not utilize it properly, then what is the use of getting human form of life? That is the defect, but there is no training. There are so many university departments, but there is no department for understanding what is the soul or what is God. No department. This Bhagavad-gita teaches this department of knowledge. Beginning. From the very beginning. The Bhagavad-gita is begun from the understanding that Arjuna was spoken by Krsna, asocyan anvasocas tvam prajna-vadams ca bhasase [Bg. 2.11]. "My dear Arjuna, you are talking like a very learned man but," gatasun agatasums ca nanusocanti panditah, "but actually one who is learned man, he does not bother about this body either dead or alive." This is not the subject matter, to supply the necessities of body. This is not the subject matter of study for a learned man. In other words, the whole world is absorbed in the study of this body only. So there is no learned man according to Bhagavad-gita. Asocyan anvasocas tvam prajna-vadams ca bhasase [Bg. 2.11]. That you are talking Actually, so many learned men, M.A., Ph.D., with university qualification, they are talking so much, but as soon as they are asked, "Do you know what is the soul?" They stop. Yes?
Guest: I have here a Holy Bible.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Guest: The Holy Bible is written by the holy spirit of mankind. Should we believe on the Bible or not?
Prabhupada: But so far I know, that, the man who wrote, he wrote with, on revelation.
Guest: The holy spirit.
Prabhupada: Yes. Therefore you should read. That... Just try to understand. If somebody, ordinary man writes a book, he'll write book on his own experience. Therefore he's a, because he is imperfect, because his senses are imperfect, he has got a cheating propensity, he is sure to commit mistake and he's sure to be illusioned. His position being such, he cannot give us any perfect knowledge. Because he's imperfect by constitution. Every man will commit mistake. Every man will be illusioned. Just like every one of us illusioned. I am not this body but I'm thinking I'm this body. And the whole activity of my life is based on this body. So therefore whole thing is mistake, illusion. Similarly, a conditioned soul, anyone, he has got a propensity to cheat. Everyone wants to be very intelligent. How? By cheating others. He thinks, "Oh, I have cheated that man. I am very intelligent." This propensity, every one of us we have got. Therefore he has got a cheating propensity. And over all, the senses by which he's acquiring knowledge by speculating, that is imperfect.
Guest: The body is Krish-na. Krish-na (indistinct), Christ. Body of Christ, the whole(holy?) spirit.
Prabhupada: Body of Christ is not ordinary body. That is spiritual body. Krsna, as Krsna says in the Bhagavad-gita, yada yada hi dharmasya glanir bhavati bharata [Bg. 4.7], paritranaya sadhunam vinasaya ca duskrtam, dharma-samsthapanarthaya yuge yuge sambhavami atma-mayaya [Bg. 4.8]. So this is a very subtle point. One has to understand that when God comes or God's son comes or God's representative comes, they do not accept a body like us. They have their spiritual body.
Guest: Krsna means Christ. He's the whole spirit. We are in the body of man. That is the body of God.
Prabhupada: The body of man is not exactly body of God. There is no difference between the body and soul of God because it is spiritual. The soul is spiritual, the body is spiritual. Just like if you have got your golden body and golden soul, there is no difference between the soul and body. But in our case, we, as we are, we are spirit soul but this body is material, therefore I am different from this body. But when you are liberated, we get spiritual body, similar, at that time, as Krsna has no difference between His body and soul, similarly, we also have no difference between body and soul. But at the present moment we have got difference with the body and soul. Therefore as soon as the soul goes away from this body, the body being matter, "Dust thou art, dust thou beist." It mixes with the matter. The soul takes another body. The whole problem is that we have to stop this repetition of migration from one material body to another material body. That is the highest perfection of life.
Hamsaduta: After that seven months of unconsciousness in the body, in the womb, what does that spirit soul experience from that time till it comes out?
Prabhupada: He remains unconscious.
Hamsaduta: After seven months...
Prabhupada: After seven months he gets consciousness.
Hamsaduta: And from that time to that ninth month when he leaves the body, what's his experience? Or what's his understanding, spirit soul.
Prabhupada: So many understanding, experience. Just like we have got so many experiences in different types of body.
Hamsaduta: He doesn't know his position.
Prabhupada: No. That position, unless he goes to a spiritual master, tad-vijnanartham sa gurum evabhiga... [MU 1.2.12], how can he know? Just like a diseased man, he'll say he does not know what is his disease, but as soon as he goes to a physician, he says, "My dear sir, you are suffering from this disease." Just like Arjuna. Arjuna, he was suffering from this material disease, he was thinking about his relationship with this body and Krsna treated him, that "You are not this body." Similarly, everyone wants to be treated, that he is not body, he's spirit soul. Then he'll understand his real position. At that time, brahma-bhutah prasannatma [Bg. 18.54]. Oh, as soon as he understands, "Oh, I am spirit soul, I have got a spiritual kingdom," so many things, then brahma-bhutah prasanna, he has no more any anxiety for this material condition of life. Brahma-bhutah prasannatma na socati na kanksati [Bg. 18.54]. He has no more any anxiety, no more any desire. Samah sarvesu bhutesu, and he looks equally to everyone. Mad-bhaktim labhate, and again engages himself in the matter of Krsna consciousness. This is awakening. And the Vedas say uttisthata jagrata prapya varan nibodhata. "My dear sir, you have got this human body. Just wake up. Don't sleep any more like animals." Prapya varan nibodhata, "You have got this fortunate body. Just utilize it." Tamasi ma jyotir gamah. "Don't remain in darkness. Come to the light." These things are to be learned. Yes?
Guest: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: What is that? Janardana?
Janardana: In Tibetan literature, there's a concept that there is 72,000 years allotted?
Guest: (indistinct)
Janardana: You mean once you get a human body, then you can have 72,000 years?
Guest: (indistinct)
Janardana: Well, in the Vedic scriptures there are 8,400,000 different incarnations.
Guest: No, not the species. I'm not talking about the species. 72,000 years...
Janardana: And what happens if you don't make it?
Guest: I don't know. That's what I'm wondering.
Prabhupada: Now... I can understand. Now suppose a boy in this classroom is given some task. The teacher says, "You are allowed two hours to finish this task." Now if the boy is intelligent he can finish it in few minutes. Or if he is not intelligent he cannot finish even in two hours. Similarly, that allowance is very nice, the 72,000 of years. But if you get the opportunity in 72 days to come out why should you not take that opportunity? Why should you put yourself into that 72,000 years? If there is a means to get out of this entanglement in 72 days why should you lose this opportunity? Just like in the Bhagavad-gita it is said
After many, many births. The same thing, 72,000 of years or any number of years. One who is wise, one who has attained wisdom, he surrenders unto Me. How? Now, he understands, vasudevah sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19]. God, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, all-pervading. Vasudeva means all-pervading. He is everything. Therefore let me surrender unto Him. Sa mahatma su-durlabhah. That sort of great soul is very rare. Now if this is the position, that ultimately we have to surrender unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead after many, many births, take it for 72,000 of years or any number even. Now here I get the information from the Bhagavad-gita that simply by surrendering unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead I become wise man. So why not surrender immediately? Why shall I wait for 72,000 of years? Let me do it immediately. That is wisdom. That is wisdom. The things which I am going to get after 72,000 of years, if I am getting it immediately, oh, catch up this opportunity. That is intelligence. Yes?
Indian man: Are we duty-bound to maintain our body?
Prabhupada: You are not maintaining your body. You are given a body to fulfill your desire. You get a particular type of body to fulfill your desire. You desire... Just like we have got, you analyze each and every one of us, each and every one has got a different type of body. Why? Each and every one of us has got a different type of mentality. That mentality is going on, and according to that mentality you are getting different types of body. So this body means to give me opportunity to satisfy a different type of mentality. That is God's grace. Ye yatha mam prapadyante tams tathaiva bhajamy aham [Bg. 4.11]. You wanted this body, God has given you this body. If you want a tiger's body, God will give you a tiger's body. If you want a demigod's body, God will give you a demigod's body.
yanti deva-vrata devan
pitrn yanti pitr-vratah bhutejya yanti bhutani mad-yajino 'pi yanti mam [Bg. 9.25] But if you want a God's body you will get it also. So why not take a God's body? This is the opportunity. This is the opportunity. [break] ...desire this body, that body, this body, that body, I have traveled so many bodies. 8,400,000's of bodies. Now here is a body, where is perfect consciousness. I can understand that if I like I can get next birth God's body. [break] ...means the same body as God has, sac-cid-ananda-vigrahah [Bs. 5.1]. So this is illusion that I think that I am maintaining this body. You are not maintaining this body. The nature's law, nature's supply, nature's arrangement, that is Prakrteh kriyamanani gunaih karmani sarvasah [Bg. 3.27]. The nature is acting according to the different qualities. And ahankara-vimudhatma, being puffed up, one thinks that "I am doing this." Nonsense, you cannot do it anything. You are being forced to do by the laws of nature. Yes.
Gopala Krsna: So if the activities is going on with the laws of nature, then how do you become Krsna consciousness? Do you (indistinct) yourself completely?
Prabhupada: That Krsna said, that sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam... [Bg. 18.66]. "You nonsense. You give up all this nonsense business. Come to Me." So we have, you have to develop such knowledge. "Oh, Krsna says like this, let me do this." [break] "...faith that whatever engagement you have manufactured, it is simply troublesome, miserable for your life. Don't try to manufacture any more. Please come to Me." "Oh, how shall I live?" Krsna says, aham tvam sarva-papebhyo moksayisyami ma sucah [Bg. 18.66]. "Don't bother. I shall give you protection." Unfortunately, we do not follow. We have no business to maintain this body or that body, but simply to surrender to God. Then everything will be done. [break] ...maintain your body. Every one is trying to become President Johnson or something like that. Does it mean that he will become? The arrangement is pre-arrangement. You may work day and night, hard labor. But you'll get whatever is destined to you. That's all. You cannot get more. That is being taught by Prahlada Maharaja. Just like a dog, he has got a particular type of body. He is confined in that bodily activities. If a dog likes that "I shall be President Johnson," is it possible? However, how much he may try, that body will not allow him. Similarly, we have got a particular type of body to enjoy a particular type of sense gratification. If we try to go beyond that, it is not possible. Therefore Prahlada Maharaja says, "Don't try foolishly in that way. If you have got any energy, try to understand Krsna consciousness. That will make you happy." Don't misuse your energy in that way, that "I shall become this, I shall become that." That you cannot become. [break] ...the example, yatha duhkham ayatnatah. You are trying to be happy in a different way. That is not the way of happiness. But you are thinking that "I shall be happy in this way." But that also you cannot do. Your happiness, whatever is destined to you, that will come automatically. How? He gives the example, yatha duhkham ayatnatah. Just like a misery of your life, you do not try for it, but it comes upon you automatically. Similarly, the happiness of your life will also come upon you automatically. So do not try to waste your time for so-called happiness or to drive away so-called distress. Just push yourself under the protection of Krsna. He will manage everything and you'll be happy. [break]
...and so far occupation is concerned, just see whether by your occupation you are satisfying God. That is your perfection. [break] Krsna does not say that you change your occupation. Just like Arjuna. He is a ksatriya. His business is to fight. The division of human society, brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya and sudra, is very scientific. A ksatriya is meant for fighting. A brahmana is meant for intelligent work. A vaisya is meant for business. A sudra is meant for labor. But because there is no such division, people are not trained from the very beginning. Therefore a sudra is called by the draftboard, "Come on," to fight. Now, how he can fight? He is not a ksatriya. So they are flying away. They're taking visa for another country and going away. How he can fight? He is not ksatriya. So Krsna said Arjuna that, "You are ksatriya." He did not say... Krsna wanted, Arjuna wanted to become a false brahmana. He said, "Oh, I shall become nonviolent, and even though I don't get my kingdom I shall beg like a brahmana and shall live away. Krsna, don't ask me to fight." This is false brahmanism. "Oh," Krsna said, "you are ksatriya. You must fight." It cannot imitate a brahmana's business. This is false. So anyone has got a particular duty, as I explained in the beginning. So he, let him do that particular duty. He doesn't require to change. Sva-karmana tam abhyarcya [Bg. 18.46]. But try to see whether by execution of your particular type of duty you have satisfied God. That is your perfection. [break] ...life. That is Krsna consciousness. Krsna consciousness, we do not say that you give up all your engagements, come here in the temple and simply go on chanting. Consciousness, you must come to the perfection of consciousness that I am eternally related with Krsna and God... [break] So Vedic literature does not say like that. It is order. You have to accept it. If you do not understand, try to understand it. That is a different thing. Just like in the Bhagavad-gita there is no question of interpretation. In the beginning it is said
"My dear Sanjaya," Dhrtarastra is asking his private secretary, Mr. Sanjaya, "my sons and my brother's sons, Pandava..." His brother's name was Pandu, therefore they are Pandava. Mamakah means "my sons." Where is the scope for interpretation? Kuru-ksetre. There is still one place, you know better, you are Indian, there is place Kuruksetra still existing. Dharmaksetra, that is a religious place, place of pilgrimage. Still, people go for religious performances. In the Vedas it is stated, kuru-ksetre dharmam acaret. One should perform religious rituals in the Kuruksetra. So where is the scope for interpretation? Interpretation means when you cannot understand something. Then you can interpret. But here Kuruksetra you can understand, dharma-ksetra you can understand, mamakah you can understand, pandava you can understand, they assembled for fighting you can understand. Why do you interpret? What is the necessity of interpretation? That means he wants to show that he has got some better intelligence than the speaker of the Bhagavad-gita. We do not accept such things, nonsense. [break]
If you have to learn Bhagavad-gita, then you have to learn Bhagavad-gita as Krsna speaks or as Arjuna understands. Just like if you take a medicine bottle. The direction, as it is stated in the bottle, you have to take medicine in that way. You cannot make your own direction, interpretation. [break] Nonsense. We don't accept. [break] We are publishing one book, Bhagavad-gita As It Is. It has been taken by one great publisher, Macmillan Company, and we'll have it by the month of October. Don't interpret. We explain things as they are. That should be the attitude. Why? Why interpretation? By interpretation, there are 664 editions of Bhagavad-gita. Simply by... One medical man he has interpreted Bhagavad-gita, Krsna is a physician and Arjuna is a patient. And he has tried to explain through Bhagavad-gita all anatomic physiology, not this. Gandhi, he wanted to prove nonviolence from Bhagavad-gita. The Bhagavad-gita is being spoken in the battlefield, full of violence, and he is trying to prove that the Bhagavad-gita is nonviolent. These are all artificial attempts. These explanations will never give you the real light from Bhagavad-gita. You try to understand Bhagavad-gita as it is. [break]
...everything then he becomes perfect. Perfect. Simply by understanding God perfectly... Not perfectly, preliminary. Nobody can understand God perfectly. That is not possible. That is not in our capacity. God is so great, we are so small. But to our small understanding whatever we can know, that are described in different kinds of scripture, and Bhagavad-gita is also another description of the truth, Absolute Truth. So here Krsna says that anyone who understands this Absolute Truth or the activity or the purpose or the appearance, disappearance, about God, what is God, what are His activities... Just like we have got our activities, we have got our identification, similarly God has got His identification, His activity, His form, everything. Now one has to understand what is that. It is called divyam. Divyam means it is not like this material thing. It is spiritual. So that is a spiritual science. So the result will be that janma karma ca me divyam evam yo vetti tattvatah [Bg. 4.9]. Tattvatah means truth, scientifically. Two plus two equal to four. This is called tattvatah, truth. Similarly anyone who understands the science of God, then the result will be tyaktva deham. By quitting this body... We have to quit, leave this body, that is a fact. You'll also not remain in this body, I'll not also remain in this body. But before quitting this body, before leaving this body, if we can simply understand what is God, doesn't matter whatever you are doing. You remain occupied in your duties, you remain what you are. It doesn't matter. Simply try to understand what is God and what are His activities. Then you'll become liberated.
So much facility is offered. And the Bhagavad-gita is there. You can understand with all your reason, with all your argument, with all your senses what is God. It is nothing dogmatic. It is all reasonable, philosophical. Unfortunately they have decided that God is dead. How God can be dead? This is another rascaldom. You are not dead; how God can be dead? So there is no question of God's being dead. He is always present, just like sun is always present. Only the rascals, they say there is no sun. There is sun. It is out of your sight, that's all. Similarly, "Because we cannot see God, therefore God is dead," these are rascaldom. It is not very good conclusion. So one has to understand what is God, divyam. So Krsna says anyone who understands this philosophy or science of God, philosophy... [break] ...called the science of sciences. So therefore I use this word "science." So science of God. Then, after leaving this body, tyaktva deham punar janma na eti [Bg. 4.9]. He does not come back again to take this conditional material body. Then, he's finished? No. He says, mam eti so 'rjuna. "My dear Arjuna, that person comes to Me." That means you are transferred to the spiritual kingdom or God's kingdom.
Just like we are present here, face to face. You can go there and see and talk, everything is there simply by understanding. And for that understanding here is Bhagavad-gita. So why don't you take this advantage? We are trying to place before you Bhagavad-gita. We are not charging anything, fees from you, that "You give me thirty-five dollars or fifty dollars." No. We are distributing this knowledge free. Please come and take ad... There is no loss on your part, but there is so much gain. And try to understand it nicely. The result will be tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. If you simply can understand this preliminary thing, what is God, that's all. Then you have got duty. As soon as you know your relationship with God, then you have got some duty. Oh, when you're engaged in such duties then you are already in the liberated stage. You are already in the liberated stage. Simply by understanding God you become liberated. Your certificate is there, you can enter. Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. Thank you very much. Is that clear?
Guest: You stated that the reason that we forget is that we change, the body changes. Now when we chant, we remember. What correlation is there between this... I talked to Janardana before about the horizontal memory and the vertical memory, and I understand... So I wish you could sort of elaborate on why we forget. I don't completely understand.
Prabhupada: Yes. It is intelligent question. You forget because you have got this material body, and because the material body is changing every moment, every second, therefore we forget. Is it not? You are forgetting. You do not know what exactly you were doing at this time, because your body has changed. Similarly, you do not exactly remember last year on this date at this time what you were doing because body has changed. Similarly, it is the nature of the body to change and you forget. That is the nature of this material body. But if you constantly remain in Krsna consciousness, that means you stand on the spiritual platform. In the spiritual platform you don't forget Krsna. In the material platform you forget so many things, but in the spiritual platform you don't forget Krsna and Krsna's duties. So if you can continue in that way, then you continue in spiritual platform, and the result will be that after getting out of this body, you are spiritually situated. So we have to continue the spiritual stand on spiritual platform by Krsna consciousness, always remembering Krsna. Smartavyah satatam visnuh vismartavyo na jatucit. This is the process. You have to remember always Krsna, Visnu. That is called meditation. That is called samadhi.
The samadhi, the meditation which is going on, some rascaldom, that is not meditation. Meditation means always thinking of Visnu. That is meditation. So this Krsna consciousness is perfect meditation. Always thinking. And it is certified in Bhagavad-gita, yoginam api sarvesam mad-gatenantaratmana [Bg. 6.47]. Mad-gatenantaratmana sraddhavan bhajate yo mam sa me yuktatamo matah. So Krsna said, he is first-class yogi who is constantly in Krsna consciousness. Sraddhavan bhajate yo mam. With faith and devotion, always remembering Krsna, Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare, sa me yuktatamo matah. Yoginam api sarvesam, of all the yogis They have opened so many classes of yoga class, somebody is advertising that you can remain young, you can have better sex power or you can reduce your bodily fat. So that is also possible. That you can do by ordinary exercise. But real purpose of yoga is to concentrate the mind on Visnu always. That is yoga. That is Krsna consciousness. So Krsna consciousness is the highest perfectional stage of yoga practice.
Guest: When we associate with Krsna through His name...
Prabhupada: Krsna and Krsna's name is nondifferent.
Guest: Yes, right. Sometimes we forget to do our duty very attentively. Sometimes we forget to do the (floor?). By associating with Krsna through His name, then we can remember our duty? Or (indistinct).
Prabhupada: Yes, you remember. If you remember Krsna, then you'll remember all duties of Krsna. If you remember... Suppose you are working in an office. If you remember that you have to go to such office at such and such time, that means you'll remember all the duties of the office. That is automatically... It is not that while you are going in the office, on the way you know what you have to do there. But because you are remembering the office that means automatically they are there in dormant stage.
Guest: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: Visnu means all-pervading God. God is everywhere. Just like the sun. The sun is a planet and there is a sun-god also. In each and every planet there is a predominating deity. Just like in this planet you have got a predominating man, president. Similarly, in each and every planet there is a predominating living creature. In the sun planet the predominating living creature is called sun-god. In the moon planet the predominating deity is called moon-god. And similarly, there are millions of millions of planets and there is a predominating deity. So similarly, the original planet, Krsnaloka, the predominating Deity is Krsna who is Visnu. So just like the sun is situated in the particular planet but the sunshine is spread all over the universe. Similarly, Krsna or Visnu, although He's in His planet, His energy is distributed all over the creation. Therefore He is all-pervading. Visnu means all-pervading God. He is everywhere. Andantara-stha-paramanu-cayantara-stham [Bs. 5.35]. He's within this universe, He is within the atom also. He's within you also. Isvarah sarva-bhutanam hrd-dese 'rjuna tisthati [Bg. 18.61].
So Visnu means all-pervading. But by our material conception we think that anything which is all-pervading, how it can be localized personally? That is our material conception. Just like I am sitting here, you are sitting here. You cannot be all-pervading. But your mind, because it is finer, the mind can be in so many places. Similarly, when you are still finer intelligence, you are still finer, a spirit soul, you can also become all-pervading. At the present moment we are hampered, conditioned, by the covering of this material body. Therefore our endeavor should be how we get out of this material body. That formula I've already explained that tyaktva deham punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. If you simply understand what is God, simply by this understanding, tyaktva deham, after leaving this body, punar janma naiti, you don't get any more this material body. Simply try to understand what is Visnu, then you become as good as that Visnu. First of all you understand Visnu, that He is all-pervading. So Visnu, because He has got spiritual body, similarly, when you get your spiritual body How you can get? By understanding Visnu.
Therefore in the Vedic mantra, Rg mantra, it is, tad visnoh paramam padam sada pasyanti surayah. The suraya, those who are demigods or Aryans, they are, their destination is Visnu. But ordinary men, they do not know that. Na te viduh svartha-gatim hi visnum [SB 7.5.31]. They do not know that their ultimate goal of life is to understand Visnu. Why? Durasaya ye bahir-artha-maninah. They are trying to become perfect with this material condition. That is not possible. You have to know Visnu. Then you become perfect. Otherwise, you have to change this body one after another. Bhutva bhutva praliyate [Bg. 8.19]. You have one body, you remain for some time, then it is destroyed, you get immediately another body, again enter into the womb of mother, again form your body from little, a pulse-like body to this body and grow to your higher status in your younger age. Then again become dwindled, become old man, and again vanish. So bhutva bhutva praliyate [Bg. 8.19]. Everything material will have to change like this. And there are 8,400,000's of different kinds of bodies, and you have to evolve in the cycle of such body. So if you want to get out of this circulation, continually, then here is the formula: tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti kaunteya [Bg. 4.9]. Simply try to understand what is God or Visnu, then you get that opportunity.
Guest: When you say understand, do you (indistinct)?
Prabhupada: What do you mean, understanding? Simply hear and get out from the other.
Guest: But I mean (indistinct). We can't understand Krsna with our mind.
Prabhupada: With your material mind. When you are Krsna consciousness your quality of mind is changed. The mind, the understanding of God, is simply purification of the senses. Atah sri-krsna-namadi na bhaved grahyam indriyaih [Cc. Madhya 17.136]. By the present senses you cannot understand what is God, what is His name, what is His quality, what is His form, what are activities. You have to learn this. The Bhagavad-gita says vetti tattvatah. You have to learn. So now as you say, that mind... Of course, with this mind you cannot understand. You cannot think of Krsna. With this tongue you cannot chant Hare Krsna. With these ears you cannot hear what is Hare Krsna. With these eyes you cannot see what is Krsna. But if you purify... Just like cataractic eyes cannot see, but if you purify the eyes, then you can see everything. The eyes will remain as it is, but you have to purify. The process is purification. Sevonmukhe hi jihvadau. That purification takes place when you engage yourself in the service of Krsna.
So this Krsna consciousness movement means to engage a person in the service of Krsna. Just like the temple is Krsna's. You wipe out the floors, you decorate it, collect flowers, engage your eyes to hear about Krsna, engage your tongue for chanting Hare Krsna. So engage your eyes to see the Deity, or engage your legs to go to the temple. In this way, if you engage your senses, present senses for Krsna consciousness, then it becomes gradually purified and you... Krsna becomes revealed. Sevonmukhe hi jihvadau svayam eva. You cannot see Krsna but when you are anxious, when you are purified, Krsna reveals Himself to you. By your eyes or..., if you say, "Krsna, please come, I'll see You," that is not possible. Krsna is not your order-supplier. He wants to see you, how much you are qualified to see Him. When you are qualified He'll reveal to you. He is everywhere. Simply you have to make your eyes to see Him. That's all. This is the process, Krsna consciousness. Sevonmukhe hi jihvadau svayam eva sphuraty adah. He reveals.
Similarly, it is confirmed in the Narada-pancaratra, sarvopadhi-vinirmuktam. Sarvopadhi-vinirmuktam tat-paratvena nirmalam [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. We have to become first of all free from all designations. If I think I'm American, if I think I am Christian, if I think I am Indian, if I think I am Hindu, if I think I am Muslim, if I think I am this, I am that, these are all designations. When you are free from the designation, sarvopadhi-vinirmuktam And what is that freedom? "I am Krsna's." That's all. I am not American, not Indian, not Hindu, not Muslim, not Christian. I am Krsna's or God's. That is sarvopadhi-vinirmuktam. And as you are convinced that you are God's or Krsna's, then engage yourself not in the designated service, but Krsna's service. Tat-paratvena nirmalam. Then everything will be purified. Your eyes will be purified, your ears will be purified, your legs, everything, all senses will be purified. When your senses are purified, hrsikena hrsikesa-sevanam bhaktir ucyate [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. When with that purified senses Hrsikena means senses. Krsna's name is Hrsikesa. Hrsikesa means the master of the senses. Govinda. Govinda also means the master of the senses. So the senses which you have got, this hand, leg, eyes, everything, I am not the proprietor. Practically the proprietor is Krsna. So when you engage your all the senses in the service of the master of the senses, that is called bhakti. Hrsikena hrsikesa-sevanam bhaktir ucyate [Cc. Madhya 19.170]. That hrsikena, that senses, must be purified. How? Sarvopadhi-vinirmuktam, being released, freed from all designations.
So the difficulty is that we are not free from designation. We are thinking, "Oh, I am Christian. Oh, I am Hindu. I am this. I am that." Nobody's thinking that, "I am Krsna's. I am God's." So this designation disease has to be first of all cured. Then you become pure. So long you keep your designation you are not pure. You are in the material condition. Therefore
sarvopadhi-vinirmuktam
tat-paratvena nirmalam hrsikena hrsikesa- sevanam bhaktir ucyate [Cc. Madhya 19.170] That is bhakti. You have to be free from all designation. Then when you begin service, then Krsna reveals Himself. Tesam satata-yuktanam bhajatam priti-purvakam dadami buddhi-yogam tam [Bg. 10.10]. He is within you. He'll give you intelligence, "This is this. This is this. This is this. This is this." Why? When? Tesam satata-yuktanam bhajatam priti-purvakam. "When he's in love and faith engaged in My service." Then? Why, otherwise, why Krsna will talk with you? He is within you. That's all right. But He'll talk with you when you are qualified. So this Krsna consciousness means to make you qualified, qualified to talk with Krsna, to see Krsna, to understand Krsna. And then tyaktva deham punar janma [Bg. 4.9]. Then you, while quitting this body, no more you are going to accept any material body. You are directly transferred to Krsna. Mam eti kaunteya. This is the simple process.
Guest: Someone asked me today what was Candra's function...
Prabhupada: What is this? You say that... That, you are not dictionary. So you have to answer all these questions, what Candra's function. What business you have got Candra's function? You ask for Krsna. Candra's function don't you know? It is giving light. That is his function. Candra means moon. You mean to say? Then moon is giving the light. That's all. Everyone knows. A child knows Candra's function. What is that? Candra's function is to give light at night. That's all. Any fool knows. That is not question. You must put some intelligent question, to understand Krsna. Candra's function... Candra means moon. The moon function everyone knows. What is difficulty? You should have at least this common sense to reply. The Candra's function is to give light, that's all.
Guest: Indra's function is to carry water?
Prabhupada: Yes. The sanitary engineer's functions, they are coming here, everyone knows. They are called sanitary engineers? The scavengers? Similarly, they are like that, different kinds of engineers. Sanitary engineer, water work engineer, light department engineer, that's all. First of all, try to understand what is your function, then try to understand what is other's function. (chuckles) Your function is to become servant of Krsna. That's it. How you can know? There are millions and trillions of other beings, what is the function? Here you have to see what is your function. That is
sarvopadhi-vinirmuktam
tat-paratvena nirmalam hrsikena hrsikesa- sevanam bhaktir ucyate [Cc. Madhya 19.170] You have to purify your senses and be engaged in the service of Krsna. We have to first of all see whether I am actually in my own function. That is the sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. That is the function. We have to give up all other functions. Simply to be engaged in Krsna's function. That is my duty. So everyone's function is that. Candra's function, he is giving light under the order of Krsna. He is servant of Krsna. (end)
Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/classes/sb/7/6/1/montreal/june/10/1968 Previous: Srimad-Bhagavatam 7.6.1 -- Boston, May 8, 1968 Next: Srimad-Bhagavatam 7.6.1 -- Montreal, June 12, 1968
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