14--Lecture

Prabhupada: Gosvami submitted that, "Practically I do not know what I am." This is the actual position of all conditioned souls. He is under the impression that he is American, he is Indian, he is brahmana, he is ksatriya, in so many ways. But a Vaisnava, as Sanatana Gosvami teaches us, that this is not knowing ourself, "I am American, I am Indian, I am brahmana, I am ksatriya, sūdra." This is not knowing myself, 'ke ami', 'kene more jape tapa-traya' [Cc Madhya 20.102]. So one has to learn in this human form of life actually what is his identity [coughs]. And why he is suffering these material conditions of life, this body. Why I am offered different types of body? On account of my possessing this body [coughs] I have to undergo the process of changing this body and according to different situations of the body there are different types of suffering. [coughs]

Just like I am coughing, the different situations of the body. The physiological condition: kapha, pitta, vayu. As soon as there is some disarrangement, they must go in parallel lines. For the time being the kapha line is increase, that I am coughing. Similarly sometimes pitta line is increased, then there is dysentery. Kapha, pitta, vayu. And vayu, vayu line is increased then there is blood pressure. It the Ayur-vedic treatment, kapha, pitta, vayu, it is very scientific. Tri-dhatuke. Yasyatma-buddhiḥ kunape tri-dhatuke [SB. 10.84.13]. Tri means-three and dhatu means dhatu means-energy or secretion. There is a bile secretion, there is a kapha secretion and there is vayu secretion. Bag. So big factory is going on within and we do not know. You know that there is a factory but how it is working, that we do not know. But still I am claiming that, "This is my body." I am offered an opportunity to work but the body is offered by prakrti:

Therefore Sanatana Gosvami is putting forward very nice, the 'ke ami', vasu [?]. "Am I actually this body or I am different from?" Then, "Why I am suffering? I do not want to suffer." These are the questions. [coughs] But Caitanya Mahaprabhu says that:

A sadhu-saintly person, although he knows everything. A sadhu means one who knows sastra, sadhu sastra and guru, and one who has a guru and he is a devotee. These are the definitions of the sadhu, sadhavaḥ sadhu-bhūsanaḥ. Sadhu means, "good." Those who are possessed of many good qualities: titiksava. Sadhu means he's, "Very tolerant," titiksava karunika, he is very compassionate, titiksava karunika [coughs]. Suhrdam sarva-bhūtanam [Bg 5.29] and he is friend of all living entities, ajata-satravaḥ, he is not enemy of anyone-ajata-satravaḥ. Neither he has got any enemy.

These are the characteristics of a sadhu. So such sadhu, although he knows everything, a still he remains just like an innocent, ignorant person. He is not proud of his knowledge. So Caitanya Mahaprabhu says to Prakasananda Sarasvati that, "My spiritual master calculated My position as a first-class fool." Therefore, as a first-class fool, one has to inquire from his spiritual master. That is the system. Caitanya Mahaprabhu afirms: jani darḍhya lagi' puche,-sadhura svabhava. A sadhu knows everything a still if he makes it confirmed by another sadhu or guru then he is confident that, "What I know, it is right." You will find in this chapter at the end that Sanatana Gosvami, although he knew that Caitanya Mahaprabhu is the Krsna Himself a still he inquired in such a way. Indirect way that it was being confirmed by Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu indirectly.

So there is a verse in the Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu [1.2.103]:

"Anyone who is actually inquisitive to understand the real path of spiritual realization [coughs] and he inquired from his spiritual master very sincerely, such persons: acirad eva sarvarthaḥ sidhyaty. "He all desires very soon becomes fulfilled." [coughs] In other words one should be very seriously and sincerely inquisitive to inquire things from the spiritual master. So in other words Sanatana Gosvami presented himself that he was very low, nica jati, nica karma, "My associates are very lower-grade people. [Cc Madhya 20.99] I belong to a lower-grade caste." So many things he humbly presented but Caitanya Mahaprabhu congratulated him, "Not that you are lower-grade, but you are a sadhu because you are so humble and in order to confirm your knowledge you are so humbly asking." So his first question is: 'ke ami', "What I am? Who I am?"

So Sanatana Gosvami. Caitanya Mahaprabhu said: yogya-patra hao tumi bhakti pravartaite [Cc Madhya 20.107]. "I find it that you are the just suitable person who can broadcast this bhakti cult." Yogya-patra, patra: the first-class candidate, just suitable servant. So a sadhu, a superior authority, just like a teacher can understand that which student is very intelligent by his dealings similarly the spiritual master also can understand that who is actually fit for preaching. [coughs] So Caitanya Mahaprabhu found Sanatana Gosvami a fit person-yogya-patra. For what purpose? For preaching the bhakti cult. "Here you are, you are the just suitable person." Krame saba tattva suna, kahiye tomate: "Therefore I shall take the trouble of speaking you, speaking to you all the details of this path of devotional service."

So Narottama Dasa Thakura said: vande rūpa-sanatanau raghu-yugau sri-jiva-gopala. [Sri Saḍ-Gosvami-astaka 1] Why? Because these gosvamis were directly instructed by Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Caitanya Mahaprabhu approved them as fit candidates to understand about bhakti-marga and therefore He particularly taught personally to Rūpa Gosvami, Sanatana Gosvami. Also Sarvabhauma Bhattacarya and Prakasananda Sarasvati, Ramananda Raya, in this way.

Now directly Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, because the question was, "Who am I?" Actually, "What is my identification?" Just like if you go any place first of all you will ask, "What is your name?", "What religion do you follow?", "What is your father's name?", "What is your village or town?" So many things, identification. So Caitanya Mahaprabhu directly gives identification of the living entities without bothering because He is already advanced in spiritual knowledge. Caitanya Mahaprabhu has said to Sanatana Gosvami that, "You know everything but you are putting your questions just to confirm. So I will explain everything in detail." So He is beginning from the knowledge where Bhagavad-gita ends. So Bhagavad-gita Sri Krsna Himself is demanding of the living entities that, "You surrender unto Me." [Bg 18.66]

Just like we sometimes chastise our subordinates or servants, "Don't talk. You follow what I say." That is authoritative. That is after discussing the whole Bhagavad-gita: jnana yoga, karma yoga, dhyana yoga, so many things. It is full of philosophical understanding but the conclusion is that after reading Bhagavad-gita, understanding it very well one has to surrender to Krsna. That is the real result of understanding the Bhagavad-gita. [coughs] If after reading Bhagavad-gita one does not surrender unto Krsna then he has simply wasted his time because he could not follow what is the objective of this. He simply wasted his time.

So the end of Bhagavad-gita is the beginning of Caitanya Mahaprabhu's teachings, the teachings of Lord Caitanya. Just like when you have ended your school education then you are allowed to enter into the college. [coughs] Similarly the Caitanya Mahaprabhu's teachings can be understood by a person who has actually understood Bhagavad-gita. Caitanya Mahaprabhu is Krsna Himself so as Lord Krsna where He ended His teachings from that point again Caitanya Mahaprabhu begins. That is the identification of Caitanya, that is Krsna. When He appeared as Krsna then He gave the Bhagavad-gita, preliminary entrance to the spiritual life. Just like there is entrance examination, matriculation examination.

So here Caitanya Mahaprabhu begins: jivera 'svarūpa' haya-krsnera 'nitya-dasa'; jivera 'svarūpa' haya-nit jive [sic] 'nitya-dasa' [Cc Madhya 20.108]. The whole question was, "What I am?" So, "You are eternal servant of God." That is the beginning of Caitanya's teachings. Jiva jvala-caya [?], everyone is puffed-up, "There is no God, God is loitering in the street, I am God, you are God." So many theories of God without understanding his own position. Caitanya Mahaprabhu's teachings begin that, "First of all understand that you are eternal servant of God." That is the beginning, then other things. One who has not understood the simple fact that he is eternal servant of God. Then he can not understand what is the teachings of Lord Caitanya.

So jiva, living entity is tata-marginal potency of Krsna. The jiva is not this body.

Svarūpa, real identity. There. So when the question of identity comes. First of all we think of our this gross body. [coughs]

[aside:] So you, Revatinandana yourself, you're out? And where is Acyutananda? Eh?

Tamal Krsna: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Eh?

Tamal Krsna: I think he's out.

Indian Devotee: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Eh?

Indian Devotee: I asked [indistinct]

Prabhupada: How is that? If somebody goes out, nobody knows?

Tamal Krsna: I think you know when he went. Where did he go to?

Indian Devotee: I don't [indistinct]

Devotee: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: For [taps mic]... Rising for that at night?

Devotee: [indistinct]

Devotee 2: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Eh?

Devotee: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: [coughs] So by analyzing what I am, so I am not this body. I am not this body, I am not this mind but I am spirit soul and spirit soul is part and parcel of the Supreme Soul Krsna, this is self-realization.

The yogis, the people are very much attracted for yoga system but this yoga system is recommended for persons who are misled by the identification of body that, "I am this body." Therefore they are given so many exercises so that they can concentrate but if anyone understands that, "I am not this body." Then so what shall I get by exercising the body? Or if one understands that, "I am not this mind." Then what shall I get by speculating the mind? Eh? If I have no identification with the body and the mind then where is the utility of yoga system or jnana system? You first of all reject that, "I am not this." Just like if somebody comes here he knows that he has no interest in this house, then what business he has got to do here? Similarly if it is a fact that I am not this body, I am not this mind, I am eternal servant of God, then why should I waste my time to have yoga system or mental speculation? Just immediately let me be engaged in the service of the Lord, that is my liberation and that is my constitutional position. A simple thing. Why one should I waste time by so-called practice of yoga and speculation? What do you think? Hm. There is no need at all but people do not understand, they give more stress on the yoga system and jnana system. What do you think? Eh? [coughs]

Devotee: I think it's sense gratification.

Prabhupada: Yes, that's a sort of sense gratification. He is thinking that by pressing my nose I'll be very much well known or if I get some yoga-siddhis, if I can prepare rasagulla very cheap then people.

Devotees: [laugh]

Prabhupada: Yes, they do that, actually they do that.

Devotees: [laugh]

Prabhupada: Yes.

Indian Devotee: Simply the perfections from yoga.

Prabhupada: Yes. People are attracted. People are so rascals that suppose a yogi has given me two rasagullas, immediately prepared. What he has given, two, what is the price of two rasagullas? Say four annas or eight annas. So giving me eight annas he has captivated me. [laugh] But he has no sense, he. "Oh here is god himself. He can prepare rasagulla."

Devotees: [laughter]

Prabhupada: [laugh] Just see, just see the farce. Just like the another rascal was speaking that the Ramakrishna induced Girish Chandra Ghose to give up drink and I have, have finished this drinking for thousands of men. Then I am thousands times better than Ramakrishna. If that is the qualification of [laugh] Ramakrishna, that he induced Girish Chandra Ghose to give up drinking. That I have done for thousands of students, so I am thousands times better god than Ramakrishna.

Devotees: Haribol! [laughs]

Devotee: Jaya!

Prabhupada: [laugh] So these rascal people are misleading them. Because he induced Girish Chandra Ghose to give up. I knew this Girish Chandra Ghose, I saw him in child, my, hood. He was a grand smoker of ganja.

Devotees: [laugh]

Prabhupada: Yes. [laugh] His son was also a ganja smoker. [Transl. Did you hear his name? Surendranath Ghosh.]

Indian Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupada: He was an actor, player. He was a good play writer, that's all. Dancing dog. So that's alright [laugh] but what other contribution he has got?

Devotees: [laughter]

Prabhupada: [laugh] So Caitanya Mahaprabhu says that, "You are, actually your position is that you are eternal servant of Krsna and [coughs] you belong to the marginal potency." Marginal potency means Krsna has got on the rough calculation three potencies: external potency and internal potency and marginal potency. So the internal potency, the spiritual world is manifested, in the external potency the material world is manifested and the jivas, they are also another potency, tatastha, marginal. Because the jiva is the life, he can live in this material potency or if he likes he can live in the spiritual potency. [coughs] Just like you have selected to live with this Krsna consciousness society, this is spiritual potency, before that you were living in material poten... so many material enjoyment-sense gratification. So if you. Jiva is called tatastha-marginal, it is up to his selection, either here or there. Either I am a materialist or a spiritualist therefore he is called tatastha-sakti. Caitanya Mahaprabhu said: krsnera 'tatastha-sakti', 'bhedabheda-prakasa'; 'bhedabheda-prakasa', bheda means-different, abheda means-one. So jiva, being spiritual spark, it is abheda, non different from Krsna in quality. A spark, a spark is fire but particle of fire, so as particle he is different but as fire he is one. So this is the philosophy.

This is Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's, acintya-bhedabheda, it is very easy to understand. There is no necessity of speculating very much to understand this simple theory, simple theory. "I am actually part and parcel of Krsna therefore all the qualities of Krsna, I have got minute quantity, minute quantity." Just like Krsna is very much fond of loving, so we also very much fond of loving. Krsna has got attraction for the fair sex, Radharani, so we have got the attraction-for women. But all these qualifications are in minute quantity and perverted. That is material condition. These very things actually in its original state will be manifested in the association of Krsna in the Goloka Vrndavana, the same thing. Just like sakhya, friendship, fraternity, so fraternity is also here. Because fraternity is there-therefore fraternity. Because janmady asya yataḥ, everything is emanated, is born from the original Absolute Truth. So wherefrom this fraternity comes unless there is fraternity? Wherefrom this attraction for young man with young woman comes? Because there is Krsna is young, Radharani is young, there is attraction, therefore it comes. So therefore acintya-bhedabheda-tattva, this philosophy.

Now He is analyzing-Caitanya Mahaprabhu personally. [coughs] Just like you analyze the sun, the sun is a blazing fire, that is admitted by the scientists. Sometimes they present the photograph of sun, blazing fire. Is it not?

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupada: So that is one forth. Krsna's spirit. Krsnera sūryamsa kirana [coughs] So the sun means the original blazing fire then the sunshine and the sunshine means there are molecular parceling particles. [coughs]

Svabhavika krsnera tina-prakara 'sakti' haya. So in this way there are manifestation of three kinds of potencies of Krsna. So He is quoting one verse from Visnu Purana 1.22.56]:

[coughs] Agni-fire, He is situated just like here is a fire, this lamp is a fire, it is situated in one place. It is not moving but the temperature and the illumination is expanding, waves, heat and light. Those who are conversant with the physics of heat and light they can understand how constantly the waves of heat and light coming from the lamp. This is a very nice example: eka-desa sthita. Yatha ekadesasthitasya nirdista. This he is fixed-up, the light is fixed-up but agneḥ jyotsna [prabha]: the illusion, that is going. Vistarini [vyapini]-it has spread. Tatha idam akhilam [Anubhasya, Madhya 20.110]: all this world, whole universe, not only this material world but the spiritual world also. Because Krsna has got two potencies: spiritual potency and material potency. So for Him both the potencies are one. Just like electricity coming from the electric house, it is one but it is utilized for various purposes. You can utilize for making things cool, you can utilize for making things hot, warm. Similarly Krsna's: visnu-saktiḥ para prokta [Cc Madhya 20.112], the spiritual energy is coming from the same source of Krsna but in the material world it is cold and the spiritual world it is warm. That's all. [coughs]

So Krsna hasn't got to move. Those who are less intelligent, they can not think of; that from a person such energies can come out which can create such wonderful universe. That, it is impossible for them to think of personal world. That is their defect. [coughs] But actually you are finding the example of the sun, there is a sun-god. The blazing fire in the sun planet, that is also coming from the sun-god [coughs] and from the blazing fire of the sun the sunshine is coming and the sunshine is composed of many small molecular particles of sunshine.

Para, para-brahma, parasya brahmanah. [coughs] Brahma we are also brahma because we are part and parcel, we are also brahma but para-the Supreme Brahma. Nityo nityanam cetanas cetananam [Katha Upanisad 2.2.13]. There is a Supreme, they forget that. They, just like we are, in human society also there is a leader who is far advanced in knowledge, in guidance, wherever you go. Similarly there is a big leader behind all these manifest.. that is Krsna-para-brahma. So His brain, His energy, His intelligence is working. That the impersonalist they can not conceive that how it is possible because they think Krsna or God like himself. Just the frog philosophy. That Atlantic ocean, he simply imagines, "It may be so great, it may be so great, it may be so great." Similarly as soon as there is question of person God we think, "Alright, person God may be a little more intelligent than me, a little more powerful than me but how it is that. That He has created the whole universe, whole the planets?" That they can not accommodate in their tiny brains. But actually that is the fact.

So cit-sakti-spiritual energy, jiva-sakti-marginal potency and maya-sakti-external energy.

[coughs]

So as there are different degrees of heat and light illumination. Here is a hundred power lamp so the degree of heating and degree of illuminating is greater than the lamp which has got fifteen candle power or say twenty-five candle power. Similarly there are different grades of living entities or living entities and Krsna is the supreme. The only difference is that Krsna has got the greatest amount of energy. Every one of us has some energy, minute quantity, that is also analyzed by the Gosvamis. The living entities has got a seventy-eight percent in minute quantity, not in full quantity. And Lord Siva has got eighty-four percent, Brahma is amongst the living entities therefore Brahma is less than Lord Siva. Lord Siva is eighty-four percent and Narayana is ninety five percent or six percent like that. And Krsna is cent per cent. It is simply varieties of degrees. You can claim that, "I am also god." That's alright because you have got the God's qualities exactly like the spark of the fire has got the burning capacity, the quality is there. Similarly you are also god, you have got the qualities of God in minute quantity but you can not claim that you are full-fledged God, that is Krsna. If you understand this philosophy there is no, I mean to say misunderstanding. How you can claim that, "I am possessing the full potencies of para-brahma." Then how I'm covered by maya? These are the questions because I am very small particle, exactly the same example, that the spark of the fire, because it is very small.

[coughs] If it is out of the sphere of burning fire then it is extinguished. If the fire quality is lost it does not burn, it becomes a cinder. Similarly we being in the material energy our burning power or spiritual sense we have practically lost. [coughs] This burning power is lost also proportionally according to the three qualities of material nature as we associate. Our spiritual sense, because almost lost because fully lost you can not say. The originally spiritual energy, even we are covered by the modes of darkness or ignorance, that is also very difficult. That persons who are in the darkness of ignorance for them the progress is very difficult-tamo-guna. Similarly rajo-guna-less difficult but when you have come on the platform of sattva-guna [coughs] then it is easier. Just by chanting Hare Krsna mantra or by hearing Krsna's pastimes, srnvatam sva-kathaḥ krsnaḥ.. hrdy antaḥ [SB 1.2.17]. This, this covering, degree of covering, becomes vanquished then your real spiritual energy coming to vogue. Evam nasta-prayesv abhadresu nityam bhagavata-sevaya. If you regularly hear Srimad-Bhagavatam or this Caitanya-caritamrta, Bhagavad-gita or books like that. Then, and try to follow the regulative principles, nasta-praye, then the abhadra, the covering, the material covering of rajo-guna and tamo-guna, will be finished.

Then your devotional conviction will be fixed-up otherwise it will be flickering. The sahajiyas, [coughs] those who do not take to the process of observing regulative principles, they fall down because they have no standing. Nasta-prayesv, we have to dissipate our misunderstanding and this will help-the regulative principles. [coughs] And when you are completely freed from the contamination: bhagavata bhakti yogataḥ, then you can understand the science of God. [SB 1.2.20]

Thank you very much.

Devotee: [indistinct] [break]

Prabhupada: Then you may become fool. You maybe befooled. And besides that why he goes in this time?

Devotee: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: So, there must be knowledge one where one is going when that is your service. Otherwise if anyone works independently that's not good. [pause] Nobody knows where he has gone?

Indian Devotee: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Ha?

Indian Devotee: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: [Hindi] what is [Hindi]

Devotee: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Eh?

Devotees: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Hm?

Devotee: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Why?

Devotee: [indistinct] [pause]

Prabhupada: For preaching two, at least two should go, not one. [coughs] For any other business one may go, just one man, that's alright, but for preaching nobody should go alone.

Tamal Krsna: When one man.

Prabhupada: [coughs] Well Krsna has manufactured some Visnus therefore Krsna is Visnu, so we have no objection to that proposition.

Devotee: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: We don't quarrel on that point.

Devotee: No.

Prabhupada: Krsna is visnu-tattva, visnu-tattva, jiva-tattva, hm. And there is no harm. Krsna is the original Visnu. This subject matter is described in the Caitanya-caritamrta, there are first business. [coughs] They believe that Krsna, as Sahkaracarya also says, that Narayana is transcendental, the same Narayana has incarnated as Krsna, we accept that. So we have no objection to such propositions, you should not fight on that point. [laughs]

Devotee: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: That's not very important point. If they accept Krsna as Visnu he's not ordinary man, that is sufficient, for such persons. [pause]

Ramadi-mūrtisu kala-niyamena tisthan, nanavataram akarod [Bs 5.39]. The sastra says that Krsna is the original, He is sarva-karana-karanam [Bs 5.1]. Krsna also says in the Bhagavad-gita. If for argument sake you can say that Krsna says: mattaḥ parataram nanyat kincid asti dhananjaya [Bg 7.7].

There is no superior God or whatever you say. If he was truth, superior truth. Then, then how Visnu can become above Krsna? Nanyat: "There is no other superior truth than Me." That is the statement in the Bhagavad-gita. Then how Visnu can be original? Krsna is original. Another statement is there in the Bhag... aham adir hi devanam [Bg 10.2].

That, "I am the origin of all the devas." So Visnu is.. in the material world, [coughs] Visnu is the supreme deva because Brahma is born from Visnu and Siva is born from Brahma. And Brahma, Visnu and Siva, they are considered the supreme gods in this material world, and He is the original. Then how. Krsna says: aham adir hi devanam: "I am original of Brahma, Visnu, Mahesvara." Aham adir hi devanam: Then another place: aham sarvasya prabhavaḥ [Bg 10.8]. "I am the manifestation of everything."

So how Visnu can be greater than Krsna from the statements of Bhagavad-gita? [coughs] Devanam-all the devatas. So amongst all the devatas: Brahma, Visnu, Mahesvara, [coughs] they are considered the chief [indistinct] and Krsna says that, "I am original of them all also." This is for argument sake. So what should be their answer? You should know? [coughs] Devanam means bahuvachan: [plural], [coughs] all the demigods, all the gods. There are 33 crores of demigods and Krsna says: aham adir hi devanam. [coughs] So what is their answer from the Bhagavad-gita? Krsna is speaking lies? Or what? What do they think? Bluffing him?

Indian Devotee: They don't accepting Krsna that's the.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Indian Devotee: They are not accepting that Krsna is God. There are too many people they ask this question.

Prabhupada: Then it means he is not Hindu.

Indian Devotee: No. [laughter]

Prabhupada: All Hindus believe Krsna is the Supreme Lord. He does not believe in the Vedas, sastras?

Devotee: None of the [indistinct] not even the great demigods [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Yes.

Devotee: In every repect.

Prabhupada: Brahma says that, "I do not know Krsna fully," Narada says, "I do not know Krsna fully," [coughs] Lord Siva says. There are many statements like that but if people do not believe Krsna as the Supreme Lord then what is their Supreme Lord? For preaching work you will have to face so many opposing elements so you should have some clear understanding.

Devotee: They usually say that Lord Visnu is the Supreme Lord and Krsna was the impersonal brahman.

Devotee 2: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Eh?

Devotee 2: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Well you can say that theory that we are preaching Krsna consciousness...

[tape faulty] [indistinct] ...particular line and Krsna [indistinct] base our principals… [End]