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701110SB.BOM
(begins with short conversation with devotees)
Prabhupada: (chants verse) It is recording? [break] We have to... Nobody is preparing that way. So when Guptas(?) took you from the train, where did you stay?
Yamuna: We were taken to a small mandira called Raghunatha(?) temple in old Delhi, right by (indistinct), and we stayed there for only one night. (month?)
Prabhupada: So is that all right? No.
Yamuna: It is not first class, no.
Prabhupada: Second class or third class?
Yamuna: Between second and third.
Prabhupada: Intermediate.
Yamuna: Now Gurudasa agrees third class.
Prabhupada: Hm. Where it is?
Yamuna: It is on outskirts of Delhi but very reputable.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Yamuna: Very much respected
Prabhupada: International academy. It is near (indistinct) Road?
Yamuna: I don't know, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: What is the address? Somebody knows. Eh? Where is Giriraja? He is not yet prepared? (door opens and closes) Accha. (Hindi) [break]
deha-vag-buddhijam dhira
dharmajnah sraddhayanvitah ksipanty agham mahad api venu-gulmam ivanalah [SB 6.1.13-14] So persons who observe the principles of tapasya, austerities; brahmacarya, celibacy; controlling the mind; controlling the sensesthese are practicedthis is called yoga system. Then, mahad api agham. Even he is subjected to the resultant action of great sinful life, he can vanquish it. The example is given just like to set fire in the field and all the dry plants and grasses immediately become burned. So by austerity, tapasya, brahmacarya, celibacy, these regulative principles can burn out the sinful reaction, not by the root. The example is given the dry vegetables or plants, they are burned from outside, but the root remains. The root is not burned. And the root remaining within the earth, as soon as there is favorable condition, there is some rainagain they come out. In other words, by tapasya, by austerity, by celibacy one can superficially get out of the sinful reaction, but because it is not rooted out, as soon as there is some opportunity, favorable conditions, again they come out.
Therefore Sukadeva Gosvami says,
kecit kevalaya bhaktya
vasudeva-parayanah agham dhunvanti kartsnyena niharam iva bhaskarah [SB 6.1.15] He is giving another example, niharam iva bhaskarah. Fog, when there is big fog that you cannot see in front of you anyone, but as soon as there is sunlight the fog immediately disappears. Similarly, agham dhunvanti. Kecit kevalaya bhaktya vasudeva parayanah [SB 6.1.15]. Simply by becoming devotee of Krsna, Vasudeva, one can immediately vanquish all sinful reaction. Just like the sun causes disappearance of the fog without any extra effort. You take to Krsna consciousness sincerely, seriously, then all the past reaction of your sinful activities will be vanquished. Now there are two kinds of vanquishing: one by setting fire on the dry plants, and the rising of the sun and fog, the fog disappearing. Again in the presence of sun there is no possibility of appearance of fog. That is not possible. But the dry plants burnt out, as soon as there is rainfall, it again comes out.
So by bhakti, by devotional service, one can completely root out the causes of sinful life. Not by otherwise. It is not possible.
(door opens) (aside:) Yes, come on. Aiye. Therefore Sukadeva Gosvami comments, na tatha hy aghavan rajan puyeta tapa-adibhih. Tapasya, austerity; brahmacarya, celibacy; controlling the mind; controlling the sensesthey are also recommended, but they are not as strong means as devotional service. Na tatha hy aghavan rajan puyeta tapa-adhibhih. That aghavan, those who are sinful persons, they cannot become so much purified by observing austerity, penances, celibacy, as one can become completely freed from sinful reaction by becoming devotee. Yatha krsnarpita-pranas tat-purusa-nisevaya. One who has dedicated his life to Krsna, krsnarpita prana. Prana means life, and arpita means dedicated unto Krsna. Or krsnarpita, two things: one to dedicate his life to Krsna, and at the same time tat-purusa-nisevaya. Tat purusa means the spiritual master who is a bona fide devotee of Krsna. By serving him, nisevaya.... Guru-krsna-krpa. We have to acquire two kinds of benedictions: one from Krsna and one from the spiritual master. By serving the spiritual master we get the mercy of Krsna. Yasya prasadad bhagavat-prasado **. By serving the spiritual master we please Krsna. We cannot please Krsna directly. This is nonsense. It is not possible. Just like we cannot approach any big man without going through his secretary. Similarly, we cannot approach directly Krsna without going through His bona fide representative. Tat-purusa-nisevaya.
Bhakti svapalpy pumarpi... (reading commentary) Tat-purusa-nisevaya. Krsna arpita prana jneya. Then again he says, sadhricino hy ayam loke panthah ksemo akuto-bhayah. Therefore this process of devotional service is without any danger, akuto-bhayah. Akuto-bhayah means without any fearfulness. You can go express. Just like a child taking shelter of his father, catching the hand of his father, crosses the street without any fear. There is no cause of fear. He knows, "My father is there." Similarly, by accepting this process of devotional service these things they do not consider, they do not.... Now yesterday the two boys, medical boys, they were arguing, "Why not other way?" Other ways are not so safe. Any other way isjnana-marga, yoga-marga, karma-margathey are not safe. Exactly the same wayprayascitta, atonement. They are not safe. The only safest way is bhakti-marga.
Narayana-parayanah. Those who are devotees of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, automatically they are susilah, their characters are very nice, susilah. Sadhava, and they are actually saintly persons. Others cannot be accepted because they have got chance of falling down, but those who are devotees, they cannot fall. Krsna will protect them. Susilah sadhavo yatra narayana-parayanah.
Prayascittani, the process of atonement or the process of austerity, penance, they are not safe. Kim na narayana-paranmukham. They are not safe in this sense: because they are narayana-paranmukham. Paranmukham, devoid of devotional service. They are thinking by this practice of self-realization process, austerities, they'll be safe. But there is no sense of devotional service, such persons are not safe. Prayascittani cirnani narayana-paranmukham, na nispunanti. Therefore they are not completely freed from the contamination. The example is given, na nispunanti rajendra sura-kumbham ivapagah. Just like the pot which contains wine, they are even washed by the river they are not accepted, they are not purified. In India the process is, which is still, that big earthen pot which contains wine, they are thrown into the river, but nobody touches, although it is washed very nicely. Nowadays the situation is different. Formerly anything which contained wine, it is never purified. It is never to be touched. Sura-kumbham ivapagah.
sakrn manah krsna-padaravindayor
nivesitam tad-guna-ragi yair iha na te yamam pasa-bhrtas ca tad-bhatan svapne 'pi pasyanti hi cirna niskrtah Sridhara Swami says, tad daiva susilah krpalavah sadhavah niskama. Susilah means those who have received the mercy of Krsna, susilah, krpalavah, or those who can bestow benediction to others, susilah. Sadhava. Who are sadhava, sadhu? Niskama, those who have no desire for material enjoyment. That is, he is called sadhu. And that niskama means those who are devotee. Without being devotee, nobody can be niskama, without any desires. Without any desires. Desire there must be. We cannot subdue our desires because we are living entities. Desire must be there. But desire for sense gratification has to be given up. That is called desireless. Otherwise it is not possible to become desireless. Desire must be there.
So sadhava. Sadhava, Sridhara Swami is giving note, niskama, those who have no desire. So this desire..., niskama means those who have no desire for sense gratification. They are sadhu. And who are they? Devotees. Akama. Their other name is akama. They have no desires. Personally they have no desires. Their only business is how to satisfy Krsna. That is their only desire. That is natural. Because we are eternally servants of Krsna, or God, our desire should be how to please God, how to please Krsna. Just like obedient servant, sincere servant, they are always waiting for the order of the master, and they try how to please him, how to make him happy. Of course, this is not possible in this material world. Material world nobody is servant of anybody. Everyone wants to be master of another. Actually he does not serve anyone. He serves because he gets some money. So as soon as the money payment is stopped, immediately servant becomes disobedient. Therefore there is no service in the material world. It is exchange of money. The service is niskama. That is brahmana, devotee. They do not expect anything from the Personality of Godhead. They want simply His satisfaction. Sadhava niskaman yatra yasmin marge. Therefore we have to follow mahajano yena gatah sa panthah [Cc. Madhya 17.186], great personality, the path of the great personalities. The great personalities means the devotees. We have to follow the path of the devotees.
(reads Sanskrit commentary) Sridhara Swami says that bhakti marga, the path of devotion, is immune from all kinds of fearfulness because jnana-marga, jnana marga, the path of knowledge is full of difficulties. Because I am trying myself, I have no protector. I do not know if I am in danger who will give me protection. Jnanis, they try to understand the Absolute Truth by dint of their knowledge. So Sridhara Swami says they are atahaya. Atahaya means without any protection. If they make any mistake... Just like a little student they are learning something, but there is protection of the teacher. As soon as he commits a mistake, immediately the teacher rectifies: "My dear boy, do like this." But anyone who has no teacher, no protector, simply trying himself, if he commits any mistake there is nobody protecting him. Therefore jnana-marga, the path of knowledge, is risky. Similarly, the path of karma is also risky. Mataraka(?). If you prosecute the path of karma, there is envy between the karmis. If you become greater than me in execution of your fruitive activities, I become envious of you: "Oh, this man is making so much progress in business or in some other way, in practice. I could not do." So I become envious. Similarly, if I advance, my friend becomes envious. So karma-marga is the path of enviousness. Therefore Srimad-Bhagavata says paramo nirmatsaranam [SB 1.1.2]. The Bhagavata is meant for persons who are absolutely free from enviousness.
So both paths, karma-marga, jnana-marga, they are not very safe. So in Bhagavad-gita you will find in the Seventh Chapter, asamsayam samagram mam yatha jnasyasi tac chrnu [Bg. 7.1]. Asamsaya, without any doubt. Just like our path, devotional service, we are fully convinced that Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. There is no doubt. So others, they are finding who is God, what is God, they have got doubt. And they do not know also completely what is God. But we know what is God: Supreme Personality, Krsna, krsnas tu bhagavan svayam [SB 1.3.28]. Because we have taken the path of devotional service that with firm conviction, and we are making progress in that way. Asamsayam samagram mam yatha jnasyasi tac chrnu [Bg. 7.1]. Maya mano buddhih. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gita. Anyone who, yogam yunjan mad-asrayah, by accepting a devotee, by taking shelter of a devotee, one who practices this yoga, Krsna says in the Seventh Chapter, then "He can understand Me," asamsayam, "without any doubt," and samagram, "completely." Yatha jnasyasi tac chrnu. In other part.... Actually, there are so many parties, especially the impersonalist party, they are also searching after the Absolute Truth, but they have got only vague idea, not complete, perfect idea. It is samsayam, with doubts, and asamagram, not complete. That's a fact. They cannot give you any clear idea of the concept of God. That is not possible. And sadhu. The Bhagavad-gita... Who is sadhu? That is also explained in the Bhagavad-gita: api cet su-duracaro bhajate mam ananya-bhak sadhur eva sa mantavyah [Bg. 9.30]. One who is performing devotional service without any deviation, ananya-bhak, undivided mind, simply unto Krsna, he is sadhu.
So api cet su-duracaro. If somebody says, "These devotee, these American and European devotees, we accept as sadhu, but they have got some bad habits." Suppose one sees, according to the European-American custom after eating they do not wash hands. That is, they are not practiced to that way. So similarly, if I see that "Here is an American devotee or European devotee, he ate but did not wash his hands, so he is not yet perfect," "No," Krsna says. "No." Api cet suduracaro. This is a small fault that he has not washed his hands. But we should not neglect to wash our hands. If by mistake, if by forgetfulness I do that, that is excused. But not that because it is excused we shall follow..., we shall neglect the rules and regulations. But Krsna says that even he is suduracaro, his behavior is not up to the standards, still he is sadhu. Still sadhur eva sa mantavyah [Bg. 9.30]. He should be taken, accepted as sadhu. Because why? Because he has taken Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Without any deviation he is engaged in his service. That qualification makes him sadhu. It is not that by mistake, he commits some mistake in his behavior.
So if the question is, then, "With misbehavior, how he can be sadhu?" Krsna answers that, ksipram bhavati dharmatma sasvac-chantim nigacchati: because he has taken shelter of Krsna as the absolute Supreme Personality of Godhead, therefore very soon he'll be reformed, although in the, at the present moment he is not completely in sadacara platform. Still he should be accepted as sadhu because very soon he'll be completely reformed. The same thing Sukadeva Gosvami says: sakrn manah krsna-padaravindayor nivesitam tad-guna-ragi yair iha. Anyone who has taken the shelter of Krsna, sakrn, manah krsna, and has dedicated his mind unto Krsna, and one who is attracted by the transcendental qualities, na te yamam pasa bhrtas ca tad-bhatan. You are assured that they will never be touched by Yamaraja or his assistants, tad-bhatan. Na te yamam pasa bhrtas ca tad-bhatan svapne 'pi pasyanti. Not even dream they can see that "The Yamaraja's assistants are coming to take me." It is so much assured. All right. So have little kirtana, Hare Krsna. [break]
So some gentlemen were coming, and ladies. I think they are not prepared to hear these things. If you talk that "You are God, I am God," then they will like it. As soon as the real process of self-realization, God-realization, is put before them, they are not agreeing.
Prabhupada: This is Sixth Canto, First Chapter. This is also one part of tapasya, to come early in the morning. So they want everything very cheap. That is the falldown of India's position. So Mr. Pandiya?
Pandiya: Yes, sir.
Prabhupada: What is your question, you can ask now.
Pandiya: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: God, you know the common definition is "God is all-powerful." Mr. Marwar? God is all-powerful.
Guest: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: That all-powerful. Now let us come to our own concept of all-powerfulness. We consider a rich man powerful, influential man powerful. Then a strong man powerful, a man of knowledge powerful. A man that is very beautiful, he is also powerful, or a woman is beautiful, she is powerfulshe attracts so many. In this way, when all the six opulences are together in fullness, he is God. Is it clear?
Pandiya: Oh, yes.
Prabhupada: God means nobody can be richer than Him, nobody can be stronger than Him, nobody can be more beautiful than Him, nobody can be wiser than Him, and nobody can be influential than Him. That is God. When you find somebody that "Here is the richest man in the whole universe or in the whole creation. Here is the most beautiful man in the whole universe," in this way, when you compare the six opulences, then that you will find in Krsna. When Krsna was present He exhibited this practically. Therefore, Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead.
Guest: (Hindi)
Prabhupada: (Hindi) Bhagavan is transcendental, above this universe. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita: trai-gunya-visaya veda nistrai-gunyo bhavarjuna. That nistrai-gunya means nirguna. (Hindi) He has no qualitiesthis is nonsense. When one is powerful, all-powerful, how he can think that He has no good qualities? Is it possible to think like that? That means He has no material qualities. When there is nirvisesa, when there are such description, "The Absolute Truth has no form," that means He has no material form. As soon as there is question of form, we think of form like you have got a form, I have got a form, he has got a form. Immediately we think of form like that. When Veda says "God is formless," that means He is not under the conception of form which you can conceive. Sac-cid-ananda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1]. His form, His form is described in the Brahma-samhita, that angani yasya sakalendriya-vrtti-manti [Bs. 5.32]. He has got form, but every part of His limb has got the power of other limbs. Just like I can see with the eyes only, but Bhagavan, Krsna, can see with His fingers. I can eat with my tongue, with my mouth, but Krsna can eat by seeing, by eyes. Therefore His form is not exactly like your form.
That is also confirmed in the Bhagavad-gita. Avajananti mam mudha [Bg. 9.11]. Because they see as a human being they commit mistakes and they say, "How it can be?" Just like Arjuna inquired from Krsna, "How can I believe that You delivered the yoga system of Bhagavad-gita to the sun-god?" Arjuna was taking the position of ordinary man. Because our form, we have got this form in our previous form, body, we are existing because we are eternal, but we don't remember. We don't remember what I was in my previous life. So this form is distinct. Krsna's form is distinct from this form. He hasn't got a form like this useless form. Therefore He is formless. Not that He hasn't got form. His form is sac-cid-ananda-vigraha [Bs. 5.1]. His form is eternal, sat; cit, full of knowledge; and blissful. Our this form is not blissful. Why you are covering the body? Because it is painful. Unless what is the use of covering? Similarly during summer season we have to take out all this...
Devotee: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: Yes. Due to this form you are always in suffering. Adyatmika adibhautika. But because they are in maya they are thinking they are happy. Krsna's form is not like that. He is always anandamaya. We see Krsna's form in a picture. He is always happy. Therefore His form is not like our form. Therefore indirectly it is said "formless." His qualities are not exactly like our qualities; therefore He is called nirguna. Apani pada grahita. Just like Veda says that He has no hands, no legs, but still He accepts the sacrifices which you offer Him. How He accepts? Pasyaty acaksuh. He has no eyes but He sees everything. How you can adjust it? Two contradicting things. He has no eyes but He sees. Upadrasta anumanta. So His words are there in the Bhagavad-gita. Your conception of eye, that if God has no eye then how He can see? Is it not the next question? But He sees. That means He has eyes which is not exactly this eye. Therefore you can say He has no eye.
Guest: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: Yes. So another place you will find, acaksuh. But here it is said that He has thousands of eyes. So how you can adjust? That means His eyes are not exactly like our eyes. I cannot see if this room is darkso much defective are my eyes. But His eyes are not like that. Even there is darkness or light, He can see.
Guest: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: Yes, He has got variety. In the Brahma-samhita also it is said, advaitam acyutam anadim ananta-rupam [Bs. 5.33]. Ananta-rupam. Just like Bhagavan, Krsna, showed His visva-rupa. So ananta, caksur ananta. (Hindi) So your question is clear? He has got eyes, He has got form, He has got qualitiesbut not exactly the qualities which you have got, the form which you have got, the eyes which you have got. No. Then it will be avajananti mam mudha [Bg. 9.11]. As soon as we think that "Krsna is like me. He has got a body like me," that is mudha, gada. That is the conclusion of the rascals. That is not the conclusion of a man who is in knowledge.
So these nirakara vadis, they are..., they cannot think of that there can be any eye which can act from Vaikuntha, which we cannot ascertain how far it is, still you can keep traveling. We can simply think of that "I can see three yards; therefore Krsna can see also three yards." But the actual fact is Krsna can see you from any distant place. Sarvata pani padas... sarvato. He has got eyes everywhere. That eyes is not exactly your eyes. Therefore it is called apani acaksur. Acaksur means his eyes are not like your eyes. So as soon as we consider "Krsna like me, Krsna like me," that is natural for a foolish person. That is the first consideration. Because they cannot adjust that God can have eyes different from me, therefore they take nirvisesa, nirakara. Nirakara means He has no form, He has no eyes, no leg. If I say that God has no leg, no eyes, it is defaming. He has got the brilliant eyes. Yac-caksur esa savita. Here is one of the eyes of Krsna: the sun. When as soon as they declare "God has no eyes," if we take in that way that we cannot see, He has no eyes, then it is blaspheme.
Guest: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: Who says? Who says?
Guest: Others.
Prabhupada: Who says?
Guest: (indistinct) in the Bible.
Prabhupada: What does it say?
Guest: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: Not without?
Guest: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: Then why stressing within?
Guest: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: Then why you are stressing on the point within? He is without. Without; within also. That is God. That Krsna says: sarva-loka-mahesvaram [Bg. 5.29]. "I am the proprietor of all the planets, all the, everything," without... Antar-bahih. So He is both inside and outside. Why you are stressing on inside only? One-sided.
Guest: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: Why? Why not outside? Suppose if one cannot begin from inside, then his beginning is not substantial? If it says by Krsna Himself that sarva-loka-mahesvaram, "I am the proprietor of all planets," so if I say "This planet is Krsna's property," what is the wrong there? What is the wrong? Krsna says bhumir apo 'nalo vayuh kham buddhir prakrti me, bhinna me prakrtir astadha [Bg. 7.4]. "This earth, water, fire, everything, is My energy." So if I say "This water is Krsna's, the fire is Krsna's," what is the wrong there?
Guest: What is the light?
Prabhupada: What is the light? It is common sense. The sea water, Krsna says, "It is Mine." And if I say, "The water is Krsna's," what is the wrong there? Krsna says in the Bhagavad-gita that "This bhumir apo 'nalo vayuh, this bhumir, this prthvi, is Mine." So if I say that "Land is Krsna's," then what is wrong there? Then why should I go to inside? Outside (indistinct) Krsna's property. Why you bother for inside? Inside is very difficult to understand, but outside I can see directly. But I see it, "Oh, it is mine. It is my land. It is my house. It is my property." Therefore that is wrong. As soon as you see "It is Krsna's," that is perfection. Why you bother about inside? Why don't you see outside? This outside whose property it is? Krsna has simply hidden Himself inside and He is not outside? Inside He is also. Rsvarah sarva-bhutanam hrd-dese 'rjuna tisthati. That's nice. But why not outside? Then what is this outside? That is also explained by Krsna: "It is Mine." So inside and outside you have to see. Any man can see outside. Any child, if I say, if I teach a child, "Well, this everything you see, it is Krsna's," what is the wrong there? This tape recorder is Krsna's, this microphone is Krsna's, this fire is Krsna's. What is the wrong there? Krsna has kindly given me. So I should feel obliged, "Krsna, You are so kind that You have given this fire so I am not suffering." Is that not Krsna consciousness? We want to teach that. Not a bogus thing, "I am seeing within Krsna." Why not outside? What is the wrong there? Tell me what is. Is it clear or not? If you have doubt, you go on questioning.
Guest: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: This is easier process. "This child belongs to Krsna. He has kindly given me prasadam." This is not easier? Which is easier?
Guest: That is a particular kind of approach of...
Prabhupada: Eh? It is not a fact?
Guest: It's a fact.
Prabhupada: But it is not easier? If you teach one child that "If you meditate upon Krsna within," that is easier? Or if you say that "The fire which you are cooking on, this is Krsna's"? Which is easier? So why you become more than child? You should remain always child, then you will get knowledge, real knowledge. That is the mistake. "I am now grown up. I cannot accept as child." What is the difference between child? A child also learns ABCD and a grown up man also uses ABCD. In what sense he is grown up? The ABCD is there. But when you are grown up can you give up ABCD? Can you give up ABCD when you are grown up? What do you mean by grown up? What is the difference between child and you? You also use ABCD, he also uses ABCD. But his knowledge of ABCD is not so perfect as yours.
Guest: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: Eh? Yes, actually.
Guest: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: Yes. We should remain child. But they are going to become Krsna. That is nonsense. That is nonsense. If you remain a child of Krsna, that is real sense. And as soon as I want to become Krsna, that is rascaldom. Do you accept this or not?
Guest: No, no...
Prabhupada: Yes. This is rascaldom. We want to stop this rascaldom from this world. That is our movement. We want to remain a child eternally of Krsna, protected by. That is our mission. Because you cannot become Krsna at any time. How you can become? It is false endeavor to try to become Krsna. Krsna says, mamaivamso jiva... What is that verse? Mamaivamso jiva bhutah jiva loke sanatanah [Bg. 15.7]? What is that? You know this verse? What is that? Just recite.
Guest: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: No, you recite this verse. (Hindi) Krsna is saying that "The living entities are My part and parcels eternally." Sanatanah. So how you become equal to Krsna? Part is never equal to the whole. That is axiomatic truth. So if you are eternally part and parcel of Krsna, how you become equal with Krsna? Simply by artificial endeavor you become one with Krsna? That oneness realization means oneness of quality, not of quantity.
Guest: (indistinct) ...merge into Krsna.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Prabhupada: Merges?
Guest: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: First of all, you are part. Suppose you are part, a screw. You are set in the machine. Does it mean that you become machine? Does it mean that you become machine? You are a screw, you are a part of the machine. Now you are aloof from the machine. Now when somebody comes and he again screws, it will be machine. The machine's part is complete and you are also complete.
Guest: (indistinct) ...to merge into that?
Prabhupada: Merging means this. Just like the machine merges with the machine..., a screw merges with the machine, but still a screw remains the screw and the machine remains the machine. But as soon as they are mixed together the screw has value and the machine is complete. But not that the screw becomes the machine or the machine becomes screw. Is it not?
Guest: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: So merging means that the machine and the screw, some screw being slackened it has fallen down on the ground, so so long it is out of the touch of the machine it is useless. It has no value. So merging into the Supreme means your value is now useless without being merging into the Supreme. And as soon as you become adjusted with the Supreme your original value is revived. That is real meaning of merging. Tato mam tattvato jnatva visate tad-anantaram. In the Bhagavad-gita you'll find. Tato mam tattvato jnatva. When one understands Krsna in truth, tattvata. Tattvata means in truth. Then he is allowed to enter or merge. Tato mam tattvato jnatva visate tad-anantaram. Bhaktya mam abhijanati [Bg. 18.55]. That also, that entrance is allowed by bhakti. Bhaktya mam abhijanati. Tattvato jnatva. You can understand Krsna in truth by devotional service. Not by any other means. Suppose you are a big lawyer. I want to make friendship with you, I want to know about your inside life. That I can know by knowing you completely, and by satisfying you someway or other, by serving you. Then you: "Oh my dear sir, you want to know me. All right. This is this." Similarly, bhakti means service. You have to please Krsna, then you can know Krsna. Krsna will say. Tesam satata-yuktanam bhajatam priti purvakam [Bg. 10.10]. "Those who are always engaged in love and affection." Buddhi-yogam dadami tam, "I say unto Him, I give him intelligence." Not to ordinary persons. Those who are actually engaged in the service of the Lord, he can get instruction from Krsna. Tato mam tattvato jnatva. And when he gets instruction fully and he is fully aware of Krsna, visate tad anantaram, then merging question comes. Without understanding... Without clear understanding of Krsna where is the question of merging? Simply imagining that I am merge into Krsna? No. That is not possible. You should know first of all what is Krsna, what is God. Then there is question of merging. Bahunam janmanam ante [Bg. 7.19]. Therefore this merging process takes place after many, many births. Is it not? So we first of all have to understand Krsna, what is Krsna. If he has vague idea of Krsna, vague idea of... Where is the question of merging?
Guest: And that we understand by service.
Prabhupada: Eh? Yes, that service. Yes, service. Therefore only by devotional service you can understand Krsna. There is no other way. That I have explained, bhaktya. Bhaktya, by bhakti you can become perfect, you can understand Krsna, God, and you can enter into the kingdom of God, make your life perfect. Only bhakti. There is no compromise. One who says that there are so many other ways, any way... Especially this Ramakrishna Mission, that whatever way you accept, that is complete. No. Only. That is the recommended process. Bhaktya mam abhijanati yavan... [Bg. 18.55]. In the Vedas, in the Puranas, in the Bhagavata, in.., everywhere. That is the process. Simply by devotional service you can understand God. Otherwise it is not possible. So is it becoming clear?
Guest: Yes.
Prabhupada: Don't keep yourself in doubt. So long you are in doubt you go on searching.
Guest: No, no, I... (indistinct)
Prabhupada: Yes. One difficulty is that we go to some saintly person, we hear and we challenge whether the saintly person corroborated my idea. If he does not, then he's not good.
Guest: That is not...
Prabhupada: If it is against my conviction, "Oh, he is not good."
Guest: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: No, I am speaking not of you. I know what you are doing. But we should corroborate. But as a preacher we should simply speak the real truth. There is no question of corresponding with your ideas and another idea, no. We... Whatever we know, whatever we have heard from our authorities we'll speak. That's all. It may be somebody may know better than me. That is another thing. But I have to present what I have learned from the authority. That's all. And our authority is Krsna, mainly. Yare dekha tare kaha 'krsna'-upa... That is the spiritual master. Who does not add or subtract from the talks of Krsna, he is spiritual master. One who adds and subtracts according to his whims, he is not spiritual master. He is not bona fide spiritual master. "I, my opinion..." "I give this interpretation..." He is not authorized. You are lawyer, you know better than me. In your law court you cannot change the law by your opinion. That is not possible.
Guest: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: That is another thing, but that is judged by the expert lawyer that your interpretation is right. And when interpreted. Not ordinarily interpret everything. When it is not distinct. The law point, when it is not distinct then interpretation required. When it is distinct, is there any necessity of interpretation? It is clear. Similarly, Krsna says, "I am God. I am the Supreme." So how you can interpret that "No, no, not Krsna. Something within Krsna." Dr. Radhakrishnan says like that. Yes. That is foolishness. Krsna says, man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad... [Bg. 18.65].
Guest: That is something within Krsna?
Prabhupada: That is his idea, foolish idea. Because he is nirvisesavadi, he cannot accept Krsna as the Supreme Person, therefore how he can avoid the version of Krsna unless he pushes something extra out of his foolishness? And there are foolish persons, they'll say, "Oh, here is Dr. Radhakrishnan says." The intelligent person will see why this foolish person introduces something else? Here is the clear... Krsna says, "Just become My devotee." And why he introduces somebody else? But less intelligent persons cannot.
Guest: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: Yes, yes. If you have got Dr. Radhakrishnan's book I will show you.
Guest: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: Yes. If you go to the market you can purchase one copy of Bhagavad-gita of Gita Press. Gita Press. With Ramanuja commentary.
Guest: Ramanuja.
Prabhupada: Yes. That will help you.
Guest: That is English?
Prabhupada: No, Sanskrit-Hindi. Ramanuja-bhasya. Yes.
Guest: Ramanuja means the old (indistinct).
Prabhupada: What is that? Ramanuja-bhasya? Oh, he has got this.
Revatinandana: Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Hm.
Revatinandana: I was looking at the Gita yesterday. There is a verse in the Sixth Chapter where Krsna says that "The yogi who knows that I and the Supersoul are one and always worships Me in that way (indistinct) that when the yogi sees Lord Krsna as Visnu within the heart, that would appear that that is actually Bhagavan realization because Lord Visnu and Krsna are the same so it would be Bhagavan. So what is the distinction between Paramatma realization and Bhagavan realization?
Revatinandana: Partial.
Prabhupada: Partial.
Revatinandana: Is that realizing knowledge without realizing it's coming from God?
Prabhupada: No, the realization of existence of God everywhere, that is Paramatma realization.
Revatinandana: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: Yes.
Revatinandana: That is called Paramatma.
Prabhupada: That is Paramatma realization. Isvarah sarva-bhutanam hrd-dese 'rjuna tisthati [Bg. 18.61]. He is situated in everyone's heart. Andantara-stha-paramanu cayantara-stham [Bs. 5.35]. He is within the universe and He is also within the atom. That is Paramatma realization. Everywhere, all-pervading. Akhilatma-bhuto. Goloka eva nivasaty [Bs. 5.37]. Although He is situated in His Goloka Vrndavana-dhama, He is everywhere. That everywhere aspect is Paramatma. And that Goloka Vrndavana-sthiti is Bhagavan.
Devotee: When a person becomes Bhagavan realized, is Supersoul in his heart (indistinct) form?
Prabhupada: Yes. Premanjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santah sadaiva hrdayesu vilokayanti [Bs. 5.38].
Devotee: Also I was told by one devotee, a person working for Lord Caitanya, Lord Caitanya will appear as Supersoul to him (indistinct) this happen?
Prabhupada: Well, Lord Caitanya, Lord Krsna, there is no difference. If you see Krsna and Lord Caitanya the same, or Visnu. It doesn't matter. Visnu-tattva.
Revatinandana: (indistinct) ...Paramatma realized in that way.
Prabhupada: Yogis, yogis , they realize Paramatma.
Devotee: And they're completely satisfied in that way.
Prabhupada: Yes. Yogis, they see Bhagavan as Paramatma. Brahman, Paramatma and Bhagavan. So all of them are on the platform but realization different. Gradually develop. Brahman realization is also spiritual realization. Paramatma realization also spiritual realization and Bhagavan realization is also spiritual, but the perfect spiritual realization is Bhagavan realization. It includes Paramatma and Brahman, everything.
Devotee: In the Bhagavatam it tells about Bhismadeva,. Bhisma? He was worshiping Laksmi-Narayana and when Krsna came to (indistinct) ...Krsna appeared in His four-armed form and then...
Prabhupada: He knew there is no difference between Krsna and Narayana because he was in perfect knowledge. Why Bhisma? Everyone of us. You do not know?
Revatinandana: Bhisma was more attracted to four-armed form.
Prabhupada: That is, that is... Some devotee is worshiper of Visnu, some devotee is worshiper of Krsna.
Revatinandana: Their constitutional nature is that way.
Prabhupada: That is rasa. He likes this form. Just like Hanuman said that "Although I know Rama and Krsna are the same, still, I want to see Rama." We also. Although we know Rama and Krsna the same but we want to see Krsna.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is devotee's inclination. That we must have. Just like the gopis were searching Krsna and they saw that Krsna sitting in one place as four-handed Narayana. They offered respect, "Oh, He is Narayana. We don't care for Him." (laughter) "We don't care for Him." But they offered respect, "Oh, Narayana, namaskara. But we want Krsna." And when Radharani came, Krsna wanted to remain Narayana, He could not. Radharani's desire is so strong that Krsna could not remain as Narayana. He became Krsna. You see? So somebody is offering us a little piece of land. Sak... Saket.(?)
Guest: Saket.(?) It is good quarter.
Prabhupada: Saket(?). It is good quarter. So why not accept that land and immediately have our building.
Guest: (indistinct) say about four o'clock. (indistinct)
Prabhupada: Yesterday there was a meeting. There is a hope of getting 87 life members. So if you get some life members, say 50, then we can have immediately one center.
Guest: But anyhow...
Prabhupada: No, either we purchase or we invest (indistinct) but we require some life members.
Guest: (talks about making some appointment at between four and four-thirty)
Prabhupada: But at that time somebody comes to see me. Somebody comes to see me and talk with me.
Guest: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: All right. If you can make some life members.
Guest: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: You are trying for that?
Guest: Yes.
Prabhupada: All right. All right.
Guest: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: So Maharani has got many buildings also, I see.
Guest: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: She's American.
Guest: She's American.
Prabhupada: She was born in India?
Guest: No, she was born in America. She was the daughter of (indistinct). Her father owned (indistinct) companies (indistinct)
Prabhupada: She has culture. Just like there is one, another American woman in Bombay, Mrs. Kwaliya(?).
Guest: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: Yes. She's American (indistinct) a Parsee, a big businessman.
Guest: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: So you are Mr. Panday. You know him? He is also advocate. (Indian men converse) Yes. In devotees' association everyone is blessed. Satam prasangat mama virya samvido. There is some enlightenment.
Guest: May I sing one bhajana?
Guest: (indistinct)?
(Indian man starts singing Hare Krsna mantra, coughs and stops) All right, don't take now(?). You want water? Eh? Give this glass. Come on. [break] ...namaiva eva kevalam kalau nasty eva nasty eva nasty eva. There is no mention that it should be chanted lowly. So how you can say it is gupta? It is not gupta.
Guest: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: This is also Purana says. Especially it is harer nama [Cc. Adi 17.21], not gupta. That is in the Kali-yuga it should be openly chanted and we have to follow our predecessor, Haridasa Thakura, namacarya.
Guest: (indistinct)
that we utter loudly. That is required. That is japa. So this mantra is mahamantra and it should be chanted loudly, or as you like. There is no such restriction. Niyamitah smarane na kalah. Namnam akari bahudha nija-sarva-saktis tatrarpita niyamitah smarane na kalah. (Hindi) And we have to follow the great personalities. Haridasa Thakura, he was chanting very loudly; Caitanya Mahaprabhu chanted very loudly. So what more evidence you want? My Guru Maharaja chanted loudly, we are chanting loudly. Whole business finished. (chuckles) Is that all right? Eh?
Guest: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: Our process is very easy. We have to see whether my Guru Maharaja, his Guru Maharaja has followed this. Then there will be no more doubt. Evam parampara-praptam [Bg. 4.2]. We receive things by parampara system. Mahajano yena gatah. Sadhu marganu-gamanam. We have to follow the footsteps of sadhu.
Guest: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: Even if I am not well conversant with the Vedas and Puranas, if I see that my spiritual master is doing that, that's sufficient.
Guest: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: Yes. So karma-kanda, jnana-kanda... We say karma-kanda jnana-kanda sakali visera bandha. They are all pots of poison. Karma-kanda jnana-kanda sakali visera bandha. You understand? All of them are pots of poison. Amrta baliya yeba khaya. One who accepts this visa bandha, this poison pot, as amrta, as nectar, then what is the result? Nana yoni brahman kare. The result is that he will continue with the...
Guest: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: Ah, that business will go on. Nana yoni brahman kare kadarya bhaksana kare. When there is question of various types of body, it may be I can get the body of hog, then I have to eat stool. By karma-kanda I become so much abominable because nana yoni brahman kare, there is no guarantee.
Guest: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: That's all right. But he was the king, he had to perform this karma-kanda for the praja. Yes. That is according to the Vedic principle. So karma-kanda for ordinary man it is not condemned, but those who are in devotional service, they do not require the guidance of karma-kanda or jnana-kanda. Therefore sarva-dharman parityajya [Bg. 18.66]. All dharmas, they are in karma-kanda, jnana-kanda. And bhakti is jnana-karmady anavrtam [Cc. Madhya 19.167].
So bhakti is above karma-kanda and jnana-kanda. Rather bhakti should not be tinged or polluted by karma-kanda conception.
Guest: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: Yes. Bhakti. Rasa (indistinct) Bhagavan... Raso (indistinct) Similarly, bhagavan, nama. Nama cintamanih krsnas caitanya-rasa-vigrahah [Cc. Madhya 17.133]. Rasa-vigrahah. Yes.
Revatinandana: That is why Lord Krsna says, "Give up all varieties of religiousness and just surrender to Me." All these other paths...
Prabhupada: They are duality, karma-kanda, jnana-karma. Karmis, they are after enjoying this world and jnanis they are after renouncing this world. But you haven't got to enjoy Krsna's property, neither you have to renounce Krsna's... The property is not yours, then how you can renounce? What is the meaning of your renouncement? If the property is not yours, then how you can accept it as your enjoyable thing. That is karma-kanda. And how you can reject it? That is jnana-kanda. So the best thing is to know that everything belongs to Krsna and it should be utilized for Krsna.
Guest: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: Yes, karma-kanda is the lowest thing. When they are fully under the concept of this body, that is karma-kanda. And when one is transferred to the mental platform, that is jnana-kanda. And when he's transferred to the spiritual platform, that is bhakti.
Guest: (Hindi)
Prabhupada: (Hindi) (end)
Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/classes/sb/6/1/14/bombay/november/10/1970 Previous: Srimad-Bhagavatam 6.1.13-14 -- Honolulu, May 14, 1976 Next: Srimad-Bhagavatam 6.1.15 -- London, August 3, 1971
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