Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 2.3.20 – March 24, 1977, Bombay At Cross Maidan Pandal

770324SB-Bombay [41:45 Minutes]

I will come as death and take everything away

Hrdayananda: …my spiritual master, His Divine Grace Om Visnupada Paramahamsa Parivrajakacarya Astottara-sata Sri Srimad A. C. Bhaktivedanta Goswami Maharaja Prabhupada, who has opened my eyes with the torchlight of knowledge while I was standing in the darkness of ignorance.

So on behalf of our spiritual master, jagat-guru Srila Prabhupada, we take this opportunity to welcome all of you, very cordially, to this Third International Bombay pandal, in order to push forward the Krsna consciousness movement in this city of Bombay, which is one of the world's important cities. So, as you have been hearing from our spiritual master, through his books and his disciples, the actual purpose of human life is to understand God. As it has been quoted from the Vedanta-sutra, athato brahma-jijnasa: the human form of…"Now you should try to understand what is Brahman." In other words, we can understand that externally we are covered by a particular body, material body, either Indian body or American body, German body, English body or Christian or Hindu body, or even animal body. Of course, the animals cannot understand, but at least we can understand that I have accepted a particular body due to my previous activities. As it is said in the Bhagavad-gita, karanam guna-saṅgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu.

By my desire, I have associated with particular modes of material nature, either sattva-guna or rajo-guna or tamo-guna, and by my desire, by that saṅga, guna saṅga, I have accepted a particular body. Sad-asad-yoni-janmasu: either I have accepted the body of a demigod or I have accepted the body of a man or I have accepted a hellish body or animal body, but I have accepted some body within this material atmosphere, and due to that body which I have accepted, I will have to suffer.

So we can analyze, in this human form of life, that that body which I have accepted, that is asat, temporary. As Prahlada Maharaja says, asat-graham, we have accepted the asat, and we have forgotten that which is sat, or eternal. Therefore it is said, durlabha manusa janama sat-saṅge: now, in this manusa-janama, which is so difficult to obtain, we should take the opportunity and associate with that which is eternal. Otherwise, if we cannot take this opportunity to find out what is eternal, or Brahman, whatever we are doing at the present time, that is useless, because by the subtle power of time it will be finished, whatever it may be. As Krsna says in the Bhagavad-gita [10.34], mrtyuh sarva-haras caham: "I will come as death and take everything away."

So therefore, as our spiritual master His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada is tirelessly and so eloquently preaching all around the world, people should not remain in darkness, falsely identifying themselves with this temporary material body for sense gratification, but they should come out of this darkness and try to understand that they are eternal. Their real position is eternal, and they are eternal servants of Krsna. Jivera svarupa haya nitya krsna dasa [Cc Madhya 20.108].

It is no use trying within this material world artificially to become master. No one will become master, because everyone, every one of us, by our constitutional nature, we are servants. As it is said in Caitanya-caritamrta, ekala isvara krsna, ara saba bhrtya : "The only master is Krsna. Everyone else is His servant." Therefore we may try by so many means-by national strength or by our own economic strength or by our military strength, bodily strength-we may try to become master, but we are not becoming master. We are under the grip of material nature, and we will be smashed, and again we will have to take another body. That body will also be smashed, and again we will take another body, and that will also be smashed.

So this is going on, bhutva bhutva praliyate [SB 2.10.43]. Therefore we should understand that we are tiny spiritual sparks. As it is said in the Srimad Bhagavatam, kesagra-sata-bhagasya satamsa-sadrsatmakah [Cc Madhya 19.140]: our real constitution is that we are minute spiritual sparks, one ten-thousandth of the tip of a hair, kesagra-sata-bhagasya satada. So we are by nature servants; we are part and parcel of the Supreme Spirit, Krsna. We can never become independent. Just like the finger is part and parcel of the body, so that finger can never be independent. The finger has no independent existence outside of the body. If the finger is cut off from the body and falls down on the ground, then it is useless; it has no value. While the finger is attached to the body, we may pay millions of rupees, crores of rupees, to save our finger, but once it is cut off, then we kick it away; it is useless. So in the same way we are by nature infinitesimal, we are tiny spiritual sparks, part of God, and if we break that connection with the Supreme Lord, our existence has no meaning; it is useless existence. Just like the spark of the fire, so long it remains in the fire it is fiery, it has heat and light, but as soon as that spiritual spark falls out of the fire, it is immediately extinguished. In the same way, as soon as we lose our connection with Krsna, our existence, our spiritual life, eternal life of bliss and knowledge, becomes extinguished by the material atmosphere. But just as that spark, extinguished spark, can again be placed inside the fire and his real fiery nature can be revived, in the same way, as soon as we again establish our lost relationship with God, Krsna, at that time we can again enjoy our eternal life of bliss and knowledge. And that connection is called yoga, and Krsna says,

"Of all yogis, that yogi who simply becomes My devotee, who is worshiping Me within him, understands that I am within his heart and he is loving Me, he is the greatest yogi. He actually has understood his eternal life." So on behalf of our spiritual master, His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada, jagat guru, we are humbly taking this opportunity to invite all of you: Please take advantage of this great Hare Krsna movement, which was begun five hundred years ago by Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Actually, this movement began at the beginning of the universe, as it is said in Srimad Bhagavatam [1.1.1], tene brahma hrda. This knowledge was first given to Brahma, and Brahma gave this knowledge to Narada. Narada gave this knowledge to Vyasa. Now this same knowledge is coming down through His Divine Grace Srila Prabhupada in disciplic succession, evam parampara-praptam [Bg 4.2]. It is the same process which has always being going on. We may not know it due to our ignorance, just like Arjuna also did not know it. He said to Krsna:

He said, "Krsna, You are the same age as me. How can I understand that You spoke to the sun-god millions of years ago?" So just as Arjuna had forgotten by Krsna's yoga-maya the eternal nature of this process, we may also forget and think that it is a Hindu movement or an Indian movement. But we have to understand that it is an eternal movement to get the conditioned soul back into his eternal position in the spiritual world.

So Srila Prabhupada is a pure representative of Krsna, and he is presenting the only effective process in this age. This is the best place in the universe to practice Krsna consciousness, Bharata-varsa. This is the best place because it is here that the incarnations of Krsna are coming, the great acaryas are coming. Therefore this is the best place in the universe to become perfect and go back to home, back to Godhead, and Srila Prabhupada has given us all this opportunity. Let us take advantage, chant Hare Krsna, study this knowledge seriously and perfect our human life.

Thank you very much.

Audience: [applauds] [end]

[break]

Prabhupada: ...great responsibility of preaching the message of Bhagavad-gita throughout the whole world. It is meant for the human being and-do not mind it-it appears that rarely a human being is found there to take up the responsibility in India. They're talking all nonsense. The real message of Indian culture is Krsna consciousness. Ya idam paramam guhyam mad-bhaktesv abhidhasyati [Bg 18.68]. Na ca tasman manusyesu kascin me priya-krttamah [Bg 18.69]. Krsna says at the end of His instruction that anyone who is taking the responsibility of preaching the message of Bhagavad-gita to the devotees... Because unless one is devotee, one cannot understand what is Bhagavad-gita. Bhaktya mam abhijanati yavan yas casmi tattvatah [Bg 18.55]. To know Krsna superficially, that is a different thing. You can imagine anything nonsense. But if you want to know Krsna as He is, that requires the intelligence.

So we have to understand Krsna tattvatah, as He is. This tattvatah word has been used in several places in Bhagavad-gita. Janma karma ca me divyam yo janati tattvatah [Bg 4.9]. Here is one tattvatah. Krsna's appearance and disappearance is not ordinary thing. Yo janati tattvatah: "Anyone who understands in truth..." So what is the result? Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti kaunteya [Bg 4.9]: immediately becomes liberated. Immediately he becomes eligible not to accept anymore this material body. Tyaktva deham. Everyone has to give up this body, material body. You cannot remain permanently Indian or this party or that party. You have to change your body, tatha dehantara-praptih [Bg 2.13]. So why should you waste your time in this way, that "I am Indian," "I am American," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am horse," "I am cat," "I am dog"? There is no difference. If a dog is thinking that "I am dog," and if I am thinking "I am Indian," where is the difference? The mentality is the same: I'm identifying with the body. Yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke. Anyone who is thinking of this body as himself,

Go-khara. Go means cow, and khara means ass. Anyone who's identifying with this body as self, he's go-khara, animal. So this animal civilization is not meant for India's culture. India's culture is different. Tatha dehantara-praptih [Bg 2.13]. Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti [Bg 4.9]. This is India's culture. Why should we identify ourself as animal-"I am Indian," "I am American," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am this"? It is wrong type of civilization, go-khara civilization.

So our little attempt is... We are not manufacturing anything. We are not manufacturer of religious system, neither it is possible to manufacture. Just like you cannot manufacture law. Law is given by the state. Similarly, dharma means dharmam tu saksad bhagavat-pranitam [SB 6.3.19]. Dharma means the law given by God. That is dharma. You cannot manufacture. Who cares for your manufactured system? Just like nobody cares for if you make some law, that "I have made some law," and go to the court, "Sir, I have made this law. Please accept." "He's lunatic. Drive him away." That is not possible. This is dharma, as Krsna says, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg 18.66]. This is dharma. Don't manufacture dharma. [break]

Yada yada hi dharmasya glanir bhavati bharata [Bg 4.7]. What is that glani? Discrepancy. So glani is disobedience to the order of God. That is glani. Yada yada hi dharmasya glanir bhavati bharata. So the whole world is denying, sunyavadi, nirvisesa-vadi, nirakara-vadi: "No God. God is dead." So what kind of religious system they'll manufacture? They are simply misled. Andha yathandhair upaniyamanas te 'pisa-tantryam uru-damni baddhah [SB 7.5.31]. Very tightly regulated by the laws of nature, and still, we are independently manufacturing religion. This is not possible. Give up this... Sarva-dharman parityajya [Bg 18.66]. Actually this is dharma. Sa vai pumsam paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhoksaje [SB 1.2.6]. It doesn't matter whether you are Hindu, Muslim, Christian or any other sect. The test is how much you are advanced in understanding God. That is the... If you do not understand God, if you have no obedience to God, that is not dharma.

So the Krsna consciousness movement is very important movement. It is neither manufactured nor unauthorized. It is authorized, the oldest. Yogah proktah puratanah. Krsna said to Arjuna that "I am repeating the same yoga, puratanam." Krsna does not say that "I am manufacturing another system of yoga." No. "I am speaking to you the same yoga system."

So yogo nastah para. As soon as we deviate from the original system, it is nasta, spoiled. So what is the use of giving things which is already spoiled? But it cannot be spoiled if you follow the parampara system. This is the secret of success. So our only request is that India should not be misled by imitating the Western type of civilization, unnecessarily fighting on political and social... These political, social, there is problem, but that is temporary. Temporary... We must have our interest to the real life. Somebody yesterday was speaking of health. So what is health? If you are going to die, what is the value of your so-called health program? First of all you stop death; then the question of health. Krsna said, na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg 2.20]. First of all come to this position that even after the destruction of this body, you are not destroyed. That is health. That is health. Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti [Bg 4.9]. That is health, not that patchwork: you have got some disease, take some pill and again become diseased. Bhutva bhutva praliyate [Bg 8.19]. That is not health. Here is health.

But we have no brain to understand. That Krsna says, na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg 2.20]. Na jayate na mriyate va kadacit-at any time. Na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg 2.20]. Where is that medicine? Na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg 2.20]. I am dying, my father is dying, my son is dying. But even if we accept, "Yes, we are accepting another body," but what do you know what kind of body you are going to accept? What is the position? There are 8,400,000 different forms of body. If you become an insignificant worm, then it will take millions of years by the evolution process to come again to this human form of body and come to..., there may be chance to take to Krsna consciousness. Krsna consciousness is not very easy. If I miss this opportunity, I may miss millions of years. So this knowledge should be given. It is not expected that everyone will accept or understand. But this knowledge must be current. A class of men, the brahmana class, the Vaisnava class... Manusyanam sahasresu [Bg 7.3], that is a fact. But still there must be somebody out of millions to understand this philosophy. And there is good opportunity now. We have published so many books on this subject matter, and we have got very nice place in Bombay, Juhu. Please come, read our books, try to understand the philosophy and make your life successful.

Thank you very much.

Devotees: Jaya!

Prabhupada: Any question?

Giriraja: Are there any questions? Please come forward with your questions. You can ask them in the microphone at the front of the stage.

Indian man (1): When chanting, you chant the name of Rama as well as Krsna. I do not see any photograph of Rama here. What is the thinking?

Prabhupada: You do not see, but can you hear?

Indian man (1): I do not see!

Prabhupada: But you do not hear!

Indian man (1): Photograph, that we are seeing.

Prabhupada: Hearing is also experiencing. Why do you want to see? You do not see your father who is dead.

Indian man (1): No, why? Why? Krsna has so many hundreds...

Prabhupada: No. Seeing and hearing is the same thing. Suppose you have grandfather. Are you seeing him? How do you accept you had a grandfather?

Indian man (1): I saw him all right.

Prabhupada: That is hearing.

Indian man (1): No, I saw him also.

Prabhupada: You saw... You did not see your great-grandfather. But how do you know? Hearing is also another process.

Indian man (1): My question is whether there is distinction between Rama and Krsna.

Prabhupada: The distinction is that hearing is also a process of acquiring knowledge. Why don't you accept it? Simply seeing is not acquiring knowledge. There are so many senses, and hearing is the first-class sense to understand which you cannot see.

[applause]

Devotees: All glories to Srila Prabhupada!

Giriraja: Next? Please come forward with your questions. Asking questions is a sign of intelligence.

Lokanatha: Yes. Athato brahma-jijnasa. Please come forward.

Tamala Krsna: [aside to Prabhupada:] I think you scared them away.

Lokanatha: [Transl. You have a question?]

Indian man (2): How could I know the unknown with the known?

Prabhupada: This is already explained. How could you know your great-grandfather? From the parampara system. Your father says, "Yes, I had my grandfather." So from the authority of your father you can understand. This is easy process. Evam parampara-praptam imam rajarsayo viduh [Bg 4.2]. You have to hear. Therefore Veda is called sruti. Sruti means you have to hear from the right source. Then you know. That is knowledge. You don't hear from a cheater. You hear from the right source. Then the knowledge is perfect.

Devotees: Jaya Srila Prabhupada.

Indian man (3): If a man is highly religious, it is very difficult for him to move in material world. What is the subject? How should he move, the people who are materialistically-minded?

Prabhupada: Yes. Therefore you have to understand your spiritual identification. Because you are fools and rascals, you are thinking, "I am this body," and Krsna gives instruction in the beginning that you are not this body. Dehino 'smin yatha dehe kaumaram yauvanam jara [Bg 2.13]. Asmin dehe: you are within this body, not this body you are. So Krsna is authority. You have to take it. Krsna is not only simply speaking authoritatively, but He is giving practical example. Dehino 'smin yatha dehe kaumaram yauvanam jara. Because the soul is within this body, it is changing. Tatha dehantara-praptir dhiras tatra na muhyati [Bg 2.13]. You have to become a dhira, not adhira. There are two classes of men: dhira and adhira. So in order to become a dhira, you have to go... Tad-vijnanartham sa gurum evabhigacchet [Mundaka Upanisad 1.2.12]. You have to be trained up. Then you'll understand; not so quickly, without being dhira. Dhiras tatra na muhyati.

Indian man (4): What is the difference between mind and soul?

Prabhupada: Mind is material; soul is spiritual. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gita: bhumir apo 'nalo vayuh kham mano buddhir eva ca, apareyam bhinna me prakrtir astadha [Bg 7.4]. They are also elements, but bhinna means material, separated from Krsna. Apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakrtim param: "These material elements, they are inferior quality, and beyond this, there is another, superior quality. That is soul." Jiva-bhutam maha-baho yayedam dharyate jagat [Bg 7.5]. So you have to know from the books. Then you'll know, understand.

Indian man (5): Swamiji, they read a lot that Bhagavata says that our body is a temple for the soul, and the soul is a temple for the spirit. Would you kindly enlighten us on this point?

Prabhupada: That is already explained, that you are soul within this body; the body superficially covered with the senses. Indriyani parany ahur indriyebhyah param manah manasas tu para buddhih buddhesta ya para [Bg 3.42]. You have to analyze that "First of all, I am prominent by my senses." My body means my senses. But the senses are useless unless there is mind. Indriyebhyah param manah. If your mind is not in order, your senses cannot act. Therefore mind is superior than the senses. And the mind cannot act if you have no intelligence. So manasas tu para buddhih. And if you can go beyond the intelligence, then you can find out what is soul. So it requires study. It requires education. The education is there. The books are there. The teachers are there. Unfortunately you are not interested to take the spiritual education. You are now interested in technology, how to hammer, that's all.

Indian man (6): It is told that athato brahma-jijnasa. Whether to attain that Brahman you should follow that Brahman which is qualityless and shapeless, that is nirguna-nirakara [without qualities and form] or saguna-sakara [with qualities and form]?

Prabhupada: Brahman is always greater than anything. If you limit within some limited idea, that is not brahma-jnana. Brahman is unlimited, the greatest. Brhatvan brhanatvat[?]. So Brahman includes everything-nirakara, sakara, and whatever you can speak. But Brahman ultimately is sakara. It's not nirakara. That is the verdict of the sastra.

This is brahma-jnana. Brahman... Sarvam khalv idam brahma [Chandogya Upanisad 3.14.1]. Everything Brahman, but there is division-brahmeti paramatmeti bhagavan iti sabdyate. Just like the sun. The sunshine is impersonal, but the sun globe is localized and the sun-god is person, but the same sun. Similarly, you have to understand Brahman. When you cannot understand the real nature of Brahman, then it is nirakara. And when you partially understand, Paramatma, then localized. And you fully understand, that is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Krsna.

Devotees: Jaya! [applause]

Indian man (6): It is said that first athato brahma-jijnasa, and then it is said athato brahma-jijnasa[?]. It is said by one Yajnavalkya. Is there any difference between these two?

Prabhupada: So brahma-jijnasa means spiritual inquiry. So the cat and dog cannot inquire. It is not possible. But when you have got this human form of body, especially born in India and especially born in a brahmana family, if you misuse your life like cats and dogs, that is a great loss.

Indian man (7): Idol worship, impersonal, considered as a stepping stone. Is it fact?

Prabhupada: I don't follow. What is that?

Tamala Krsna: "Is worshiping the idol a stepping stone?"

Indian man (7): Idol worship, murti-puja, is considered as a stepping stone only. When you attain something, then you need not do it.

Prabhupada: So unless you step one by one, how you can go to the topmost? You have to.

Indian man (7): After attaining that.

Prabhupada: Yes. First of all you have to step on the first step, then second step, then... Brahmeti paramatmeti bhagavan iti sabdyate .

Indian man (7): Thank you.

Prabhupada: So everything requires training and knowledge.

Tamala Krsna: Jaya Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. That's all.

Devotees: Jaya. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

Tamala Krsna: Kirtana. [break]

Indian man (8): It is seen that harer nama eva kevalam or chanting Hare Krsna is the only alternative, can you please explain that it is our only way out for salvation?

Prabhupada: Yes. People are so fallen that they cannot take the life of tapasya. Athato brahma-jijnasa. This is the life of tapasya. Tapo divyam putraka yena suddhyet sattvam [SB 5.5.1]. So, tapasa brahmacaryena yamena niyamena va [SB 6.1.13].

So there is process of tapasya, but in this age, Kali-yuga, people are so fallen that they cannot undergo all the items of tapasya. It is very difficult. Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu... Caitanya Mahaprabhu has not manufactured. It is mentioned in the sastra that only by this process.

This is special concession to the Kali-yuga, that there are so many faults in this age, but if one sticks to this principle of kirtanad eva krsnasya mukta-saṅgah param vrajet, he becomes liberated and go back to home, back to Godhead.

Indian man (8): And is it so, that in Srimad-Bhagavata it is also written, many really great men want to be here in Kali-yuga, because it is easier to be for salvation? Only by name...

Prabhupada: Yes. That I am speaking. Kirtanad eva krsnasya. Krsnasya kirtanad eva mukta-saṅgah param. Simply by chanting. Therefore we practically see that these Western people, they are not coming from high-class brahmana or Vaisnava family, but still, by kirtanad eva krsnasya they are becoming so liberated that they are preaching Krsna consciousness all over the world.

Indian man (8): Another thing, my last question-I shall not disturb you. The name is power, and to utter name...

Prabhupada: The name is the person. This is absolute. Absolute.

Indian man (8): Personified.

Prabhupada: Not personified. He is person.

There is... Just like here in this material world, dual world, water and the name "water" is different. But in the spiritual world, Krsna and Krsna's name is the same. Abhinnatvan nama-naminoh. So these things are to be realized one after another if you come to the process.

Thank you very much.

Indian man (8): I am very thankful to you sir.

Devotees: Jaya Srila Prabhupada. [end]