Bhavan's Journal, Answers to a Questionnaire 3 – July 1, 1976, New Vrindavan

Pusta Krsna: So we're continuing with this questionnaire from Bhavan's Journal in Bombay. This is question number ten. Question number ten, Srila Prabhupada, is, "Will mantras lose their sanctity if they are not in Sanskrit?"

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Pusta Krsna: Will mantras lose their sanctity, or holiness, if they are not in the Sanskrit language?

Prabhupada: Mantra in Sanskrit language, it may... The letters may be different, but it is a transcendental sound. The sound must be vibrated. You cannot translate it. The sound as it is... Just like Hare Krsna maha-mantra, the sound must be produced. You cannot translate. Then it will be artha, arthavad. That is prohibited. You cannot interpret or do other way. The sound vibration must be there. Then it will continue in sanctity.

Pusta Krsna: Is that to say that the mantras can be written in Devanagari script or in roman letters, but...

Prabhupada: It doesn't matter.

Pusta Krsna: But the sound must be the same.

Prabhupada: Yes. The sound is important.

Pusta Krsna: So the sanctity is in the sound vibration and not so much that it's in the Sanskrit letters itself. May I ask another question, Srila Prabhupada? "Are fasting and other dietary regulations necessary for leading a spiritual life?"

Prabhupada: Certainly.

To advance in spiritual life these things are essential, tapasya. Tapasya means voluntarily accepting something which may be painful. Just like we are recommending no illicit sex, no gambling, no meat-eating. So those who are accustomed to these bad habits, for them, in the beginning it may be a little difficult. But in spite of becoming difficult, one has to do it. That is called tapasya. To rise early in the morning, those who are not practiced, it is a little painful, but one has to do it. So this is called tapasya. So according to the Vedic injunction, there are some tapasyas that must be done. It is not, "I may do it or not do it." It must be done. Just like in the Munḍaka Upanisad it is ordered that one must go to the spiritual master. Tad-vijnanartham sa gurum evabhigacchet [Munḍaka Upanisad 1.2.12].

So there is no question of voluntarily, but it must be. And one must carry out by the order of a spiritual master and the order of the sastra. That is called tapasya. Just like in our line ekadasi is compulsory. One may feel some inconvenience fasting or simply eating fruits. No. It must be done. There are so many rules and regulation which is essential. It must be done. That is called tapasya. Without consideration whether it is convenient or inconvenient for you, which is, must be done, that is called tapasya.

Tapaḥ divyam... Just like Rsabhadeva orders that this human life is meant for tapasya. Therefore in our Vedic civilization we find so many rules and regulations. This is tapasya. From the very beginning of life, brahmacari, to go to the spiritual master's place and act like menial servant. Nicavat, it is said. If the spiritual master says that "You go and pick up some wood from the forest," and one may be a king's son, but he cannot deny it, the spiritual master's order, "You must go," as Krsna, He was ordered to go and pick up some dry wood from the forest. So He had to go. Although He was..., His father was Nanda Maharaja, a village vaisya king, and Krsna was Personality of Godhead, but He could not deny. He had to go. Nicavat. Just like menial servant. That is called brahmacari. This is tapasya. So tapasya is so essential that one has to do it. There is no question of alternative.

Then brahmacari, then..., if he marries, then grhastha. That is also tapasya. He cannot have sex life whenever he likes. No. The sastra says, "You must have sex life like this: once in a month, and only for begetting children." So that is also tapasya. They do not follow..., people do not follow any tapasya at the present moment. But human life is meant for tapasya, regulative principles. Even in ordinary life... Just like you are driving your car, you are going to some urgent business, and you saw the red light. You have to stop. You cannot say, "I have to leave by this time. I must go." No. You must. That is tapasya. So tapasya means to follow the regulative principles strictly by the higher order. And that is human life. And animal life means you can do whatever you like. They keep to the right, keep to the left, it doesn't matter. But their offense is not taken, because they are animals. But a human being, if he does not follow the regulative principles, it is sinful. He'll be punished. The same principle: just like when there is red light, if you do not stop, you'll be punished. But a cat and dog, if he transgresses, "Never mind red light, I shall go," he's not punished. So tapasya is meant for the human being. He must do it if he wants at all progress of life. That is essential.

Pusta Krsna: In terms of diet, dietary regulations, eating...

Prabhupada: That is also tapasya. That is also tapasya. Just like we are prohibiting meat-eating. So in your country this is little troublesome. From the very beginning of his life he is, I mean to say, habituated to eat meat. The mother purchases powdered meat and mix with... I have seen it. And by force. So he has been trained up eating meat, and I say, "Don't eat meat." So therefore that is troublesome. And if he's serious, he must accept the order. That is tapasya. Tapasya means in diet, in practice, in behavior, in dealing, and so on, so on. Everything there is tapasya. That is all described. Mental tapasya, bodily tapasya, and... What is called? Word? Just like vaco-vegam, this is tapasya. You cannot talk nonsense. You want to talk something nonsense, but according to... So they don't talk nonsense. Sa vai manaḥ krsna-padaravindayor vacamsi vaikuntha-gunanuvar... [SB 9.4.18].

If you talk, you must talk about Krsna. That is tapasya. "Sastra has ordered me not to talk loosely anything, only talk of Krsna." So if he does that, that is tapasya. Tapasya in the matter of words. Tapasya in connection with body. Tapasya in connection with mind. Vaco-vegam krodha-vegam. One has become angry and he wants to express it by beating or something doing very..., but tapasya will restrict him: "No, don't do it." "I want to kill you." Tapasya will restrict. Vaco-vegam krodha-vegam manasa-vegam udara-vegam. "I am sexually inclined, but I cannot do it. This is not the time." That is tapasya. I am restricted. In this way, tapasya in every way-bodily, mental, words, practice, dealing. So these have to be learned. That is called tapasya. And that is human life. Tapo divyam [SB 5.5.1]. If you want to make progress in spiritual life and you are human life, human being, you must act according to the sastric injunctions. That is called tapasya. Brahma, before creation he had to undergo tapasya. Is it not stated? Yes. So tapasya is essential. You cannot avoid. Yes.

Hari-sauri: This is a listing of the three tapasyas in the Gita.

Prabhupada: Yes. Read it.

"The austerity of the body consists in this: worship of the Supreme Lord, the brahmanas, the spiritual master, and superiors like the father and mother. Cleanliness, simplicity, celibacy and nonviolence are also austerities of the body." Shall I do the purport?

Prabhupada: Words?

Hari-sauri: Purport?

Prabhupada: No. Tapasya, words, not there?

Hari-sauri: Oh.

"Austerity of speech consists in speaking truthfully and beneficially and in avoiding speech that offends. One should also recite the Vedas regularly."

Prabhupada: Tapasya.

Hari-sauri:

"And serenity, simplicity, gravity, self-control and purity of thought are the austerities of the mind."

"This threefold austerity, practiced by men whose aim is not to benefit themselves materially but to please the Supreme, is of the nature of goodness."

Prabhupada: That's it. The aim is to please the Supreme through the spiritual master. Yasya prasadad bhagavat-prasado. This is the idea. Now, who is teaching this tapasya? Where is the school, college? Smoke... This is tapasya. And they are smoking before teacher. No offense. What you'll expect from such student? Animal civilization. This is not civilization. No tapasya, no brahmacari. Tapo divyam [SB 5.5.1]. And tapasya begins from brahmacari. Tapasa brahmacaryena samena [SB 6.1.13], to control. Brahmacari guru-grhe vasan dantaḥ [SB 7.12.1]. How to control senses, that is the beginning of life. Not A-B-C-D learning and maybe your character may be less than an animal's, and you have got a degree of the university; you become a learned man. No. That is not accepted. Even from moral instruction, who is educated, that is described by Canakya Panḍita.

Here is panḍita. That is learned man. Panḍitaḥ sama-darsinaḥ. Vidya-vinaya-sampanne brahmane gavi [Bg 5.18]. He is learned man. Not this degree-holder. A degree-holder, he has no tapasya, he has no character, and his knowledge is called mayayapahrta-jnana. Although he has learned so many things, but maya has taken away his knowledge. He's a rascal. He's animal. This is Vedic civilization. [break]

Pusta Krsna: Question number twelve: "What is the role of rituals in religion? Are they to be discouraged, as it is being advocated by some reformists, or are they to be encouraged? If so, in what form?" What is the role of rituals in religion?

Prabhupada: Ritual is a practice based on tapasya. Unless one undergoes the ritualistic ceremony, he remains unclean. But in this age, because it is practically impossible to induce people to take all these ritualistic processes, therefore it is recommended that "Chant Hare Krsna maha-mantra." That is special advantage of this age, that by constant chanting of Hare Krsna maha-mantra he automatically becomes purified. That is recommendation given by Caitanya Mahaprabhu, ceto-darpana-marjanam [Cc Antya 20.12]. The beginning is cleansing the heart, because we are impure on account of dirty things within our heart accumulated life after life in the animalistic way of life. So everything-advancement of spiritual life, culture, tapasya-means cleansing the heart.

So this process, chanting the maha-mantra, the first installment of benefit is cleansing the heart. Ceto-darpana-marjanam. And when the heart is cleansed, then he becomes eligible for being free from the clutches of maya, or the materialistic way of life. When he understands that he is not this body, he's spirit soul, his business is different, and he understands that "I am engaged only in these bodily comforts of life. It is not at all essential, because it will change. Today I am in American body, I have got so many duties as American. Tomorrow I may be American dog body, so immediately my duties changes. So that is not my real business. My real business is how to elevate myself as spirit soul to the spiritual world, back to home, back to Godhead." Then he changes his... Ceto... Bhava-maha... Then this materialistic activity is stopped. He is no more interested, that "This is simply waste of time." That is knowledge, that "I am simply acting for the benefit and comfort of the body. This is simply waste of time. I must act spiritually." That is called ceto-darpana-marjanam [Cc Antya 20.12], cleansing the heart. He is wrongly working on the basis of bodily concept of life. That illusion is over simply by chanting Hare Krsna maha-mantra. This is the first installment, ceto-darpana-marjanam, and bhava-maha-davagni-nirvapanam. Then he is in the process to stop the blazing fire of material existence. Then vidya-vadhū-jivanam anandambudhi-vardhanam. Then the ocean of transcendental bliss increases. Anandambudhi-vardanam sarvatmanam snapanam: wholesale blissful life. Param vijayate sri-krsna-sahkirtanam: "All glories to the chanting of Krsna sahkirtana." Then the other processes... That is described in the Siksastaka.

So this is Caitanya Mahaprabhu's gift, that kevalaya bhaktya. All the practices of austerities, penances and mystic yoga, and so on, so on-there are so many things-everything will be totally achieved simply by chanting Hare Krsna mantra. Bhakti.

Just like when there is sunrise, immediately the all-pervading fog disappears. Now this Kali-yuga, by bhakti-yoga, especially by chanting Hare Krsna maha-mantra, one can be fully reformed and come to spiritual platform, and that is success of life.

Pusta Krsna: The next question kind of relates a little bit in the same direction. Question thirteen: "There are various samskaras prescribed in the life of a Hindu, right from his birth to death."

Prabhupada: Yes.

Pusta Krsna: "Many of these samskaras are not being observed today. Should they be revived?"

Prabhupada: Samskara... The real aim is to bring the rascal to the platform of knowledge. That is called samskara. Janmana jayate sūdra. By birth everyone is the same, sūdras, means without any knowledge. But the samskara means sūdra, rascal, without any knowledge of spiritual life, to gradually bring him to the spiritual platform. That is called samskara. And samskarad bhaved dvijaḥ, that is essential. The human life is the opportunity for understanding what he is and what is the aim of his life. The aim of life is back to home, back to Godhead. We are part and parcel of God. Somehow or other we are in this material existence. So aim is again come to our spiritual life, spiritual existence, where there is no struggle for existence-blissful, happy life. Because actually we want happiness, blissful life. That is not possible in the material world. That is in the spiritual world. That is the aim. So every human being should be given chance. That is real education. That is called samskara.

So these samskara, there are dasa-vidha-samskaraḥ... So in this age it is very difficult, but if one chants Hare Krsna maha-mantra without any offense, being trained up by the spiritual master, all the samskaras automatically become done, and he comes to his original spiritual position, aham brahmasmi, "I am spirit soul. The Krsna is Param Brahman, and I am Brahman." As Arjuna said, param brahma param dhama pavitram paramam bhavan [Bg 10.12]. Krsna is also Brahman, I am also Brahman. But He's Supreme Brahman, I am minute Brahman. So my business is to serve Krsna." That is teachings of Lord Caitanya, jivera 'svarūpa' haya nitya krsna-dasa [Cc Madhya 20.108]. So if he engages himself in his original spiritual business, to act as the servant of Krsna, then all reformation is done. So that advantage is given in this age: kirtanad eva krsnasya mukta-sahgaḥ param... [SB 12.3.51].

Reformatory process is meant for purifying him so he becomes mukta-sahgaḥ. Mukta-sahgaḥ means liberated from all this bad association of material existence. And he becomes eligible to go back to home, back to Godhead. So this is the special advantage. The question is, "Whether they should be revived?" They should be revived to the lowest necessity, but all of them cannot be revived in this age. But people should be induced to take to chanting Hare Krsna maha-mantra. Then all reformation will automatically become manifest, and he will come to spiritual platform, brahma-bhūtaḥ, the realization of Brahman. Then prasannatma, he'll be happy. There is no lamentation, there is no undesirable hankering. Na socati na kahksati. He sees everyone on the spiritual platform. Samaḥ sarvesu bhūtesu. In this way he comes to the platform of devotional service, and then his life becomes successful. Is that question answered or not?

Pusta Krsna: Yes. Just one question I have. You said that the samskaras should be revived to the lowest?

Prabhupada: The minumum possible way. Just like to make him a brahmana. So to become a brahmana these four things are essential: no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no intoxication, no gambling. This must be done. You cannot avoid wholesale.

Pusta Krsna: Cannot avoid...?

Prabhupada: Wholesale.

Pusta Krsna: Wholesale.

Prabhupada: You must avoid at least sinful activities.

You cannot become a devotee unless you are completely sinless. So to become completely sinless you have to begin with these four prohibitory injunctions, or avoid sinful activities like illicit sex, meat-eating, smoking, intoxication and gambling. Then you'll be gradually completely sinless. One side, to practice things, and another side, to engage yourself in devotional service. To engage oneself devotional service under the order of spiritual master and the sastra means to remain on the transcendental platform. Transcendental platform means there is no sinful activity. It is above. Sinful... Pious and sinful activities are there so long you are on the material platform. Good and bad. Piety and sinful. But when you are on the transcendental platform, then you are automatically without sin.

Sin..., life of vice and life of piety, they are within this material world. But when one is spiritually engaged, he is above the spiritual plane. Sa gunan samatityaitan brahma-bhūyaya kalpate. So one side, voluntarily accepting these prohibitory process...

[devotees entering; door squeaking] You can keep it open.

Hari-sauri: Tell him to leave the door open.

Prabhupada: So the whole thing is that if you chant Hare Krsna maha-mantra and give up these sinful activities, automatically you become reformed, come to the spiritual platform, and in this way your life will become successful.

Pusta Krsna: Can we go on to the next question, Srila Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: Hmm.

Pusta Krsna: Question fourteen: "It is said that the karma-kanḍa in the Vedas has almost gone out of use, except for a few rites which remain in vogue for marriage, sraddhas etc. Is it advisable to revive the karma-kanḍa with its stress on the performance of various yajnas?"

Prabhupada: So that is not possible in this... Taking consideration of the time, circumstances, it is not possible. There are different kinds of karma-kanḍiya-yajna. It is expensive also, and there is no expert brahmana to guide how to perform this yajna. So Kali-yuga, it is not possible to perform yajnas. Krte yad dhyayato visnum tretayam yajato makhaiḥ [SB 12.3.52]. In the Treta-yuga yajnas were possible. Dvapare paricaryayam kalau tad dhari-kirtanat, that in this Age of Kali-yuga, the real yajna is hari-kirtana. Yajnaiḥ sahkirtana-prayair yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ [SB 11.5.32].

Therefore those who are intelligent, having good brain substance, they take to this yajna, sahkirtana-yajna. And practically we are experiencing, simply by sahkirtana-yajna, even the lowest person in the sinful activities, he is becoming purified. So karma-kanḍa is... To revive them in this age is not possible. Neither jnana-kanda. That is also not possible. People are so fool and rascal that it is impossible. Therefore Narottama dasa Thakura said... He has condemned karma-kanḍa, jnana-kanḍa, even it is properly done. Karma-kanḍa, by performing ritualistic ceremonies of karma-kanḍa, you can go to the heavenly planet. But what is the benefit there? You can enjoy there materialistic way of life in higher standard. That's all. You can live for a very, very long duration of period. But that does not mean that you become immortal. The demigods, they are called amara. Amara means they have got very long duration of life. Does not mean he is immortal.

So by karma-kanḍa you can elevate yourself to the higher planetary system. Even it is properly done... And now it is not possible to do it properly. And even it is properly done, that is condemned. It is not required. Similarly jnana-kanḍa, even it is properly done. You can merge yourself into the Brahman effulgence. But that is also not safe, because in the sastra we see that arūhya krcchrena param padam tataḥ patanty adhaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. Even one merges oneself into the impersonal Brahman, he again falls down. Patanty adhaḥ. We have seen practical, in India many sannyasis, they elevate themselves by jnana-kanḍa, but because they cannot stay, they again come to the karma-kanḍa, philanthropy activities and hospitals and schools. That is their falldown.

So either in karma-kanḍa or jnana-kanḍa you cannot achieve the real purpose of life. Therefore Narottama dasa Thakura has said, karma-kanḍa jnana-kanḍa sakali visera bandha. Either you accept karma-kanḍa or jnana-kanda, they're different pots of poison. Amrta boliya jeba khai. If by mistake you take poison, death is inevitable. Similarly, by karma-kanḍa, jnana-kanḍa nobody can derive any actual benefit. By upasana-kanḍa, that is the... The Vedas, Vedic ritualistic ceremony means there are three kanḍas: karma-kanḍa, jnana-kanḍa and upasana-kanḍa. So upasana-kanḍa, there are recommendation of many..., worship of many demigods. But the best upasana is visnūpasana. Visnor aradhanam sarvesam [Padma Purana].

Visnor aradhanam param. Om tad visnum paramam padam [Rg-Veda]. There are different types of upasana recommendation, but the visnor aradhanam, worshiping Lord Visnu, that is the supreme. That is supreme. So gradually, there is elevation to karma-kanḍa, jnana-kanḍa, upasana-kanḍa, but in the Kali-yuga all these things are not possible to revive. Best directly give him the best upasana-kanḍa, visnūpasana, bhakti. Everything will be automatically achieved by bhakti-marga.

Pusta Krsna: The next question, Srila Prabhupada, fifteen: "Hinduism has been defined as a way of life."

Prabhupada: Yes. Actually it is the way. That, I have already described it. It is not a sectarianism like Muslimism, Christianism or this-ism. Hinduism also now one of them. Actually, it is a way of life, varnasrama-dharma, how to become elevated to the spiritual platform. So that begins by the varnasrama-dharma, to select persons according to his capacity to different varnas. Some of them selected, trained as brahmanas, some of them trained as ksatriya, some of them as vaisya, some of them as..., remain... Those who cannot take any training, they are sūdras. So in the ways there must be social division-not by birth, but by education. Catur-varnyam maya srstam guna-karma-vibhagasaḥ [Bg 4.13].

That we have lost. The so-called Hinduism they have lost. And because they did not follow real varnasrama-dharma, therefore India, so many renegades, Muslim, became... Once they became Muslim, there was no reformation. But according to Vedic principle, even one is fallen, he can be raised to the highest standard. Mam hi partha vyapasritya ye 'pi syuḥ papa-yonayaḥ [Bg 9.32]. One may... Samskarad bhaved dvija. And Sanatana Gosvami says that,

As by chemical process the bell metal can be turned into gold by adding with the mercury... This is a chemical process. If you can add in the bell metal proportionately mercury, then it will turn into gold. Here is the process given in the sastra. If you are able to do it, you can do it, turn gold some of these bell metals. So the example is given that as the bell metal, base metal, can be turned into gold by chemical process, similarly, by diksa-vidhanena, by proper initiation by the bona fide spiritual master, everyone can be turned into dvija, twice-born. Dvijatvam jayate nrnam. Nrnam means all men. It is not..., there is no discrimination, that only the Hindus, only the Indians, or only the so-called brahmanas can be turned. Everyone can be turned. That is the injunction. So this Krsna consciousness movement is trying to do that, trying everyone to become a bona fide brahmana. Without becoming a brahmana you cannot become Vaisnava. So this reformatory process is recommended in the sastras. What is the question?

Pusta Krsna: "Hinduism has been defined as a way of life. In..."

Prabhupada: Yes, this is the way of life, that by reformatory process recommended in the sastras one should be elevated to the position of brahmana, ksatriya, vaisyas and sūdra. Sudra means one who cannot take any reformation. But one who can take up the reformation, he can be situated as a brahmana, as a ksatriya, as a vaisya. This is not by birth, but by education, by training. That is recommended for the all human society. Not for the Hindus or... Otherwise, why Krsna says papa-yoni? Papa-yoni. Striyo vaisyas tatha sūdras, they are also taken as papa-yoni. And what to speak of the sūdras and canḍalas? They must be papa-yoni. Only the brahmana, ksatriya, they are taken as highly elevated. But nowadays, kalau sūdra-sambhavaḥ. In this age you cannot distinguish who is brahmana, who is ksatriya, who is a vaisya, who is a sūdra. It is accepted that everyone is a sūdra because there is no reformation. So according to Pancaratriki-vidhi everyone should be given the chance of becoming a Vaisnava, a dvija. And that is recommendation in the Hari-bhakti-vilasa, that by the proper initiation process everyone can be brought into the platform of dvija, twice-born, and then he becomes... After initiation, his second birth is there. Samskarad bhaved dvijaḥ. Then he's allowed to read the scripture. Veda-pathad bhaved vipraḥ. He becomes vipra. Then when he really comes to the knowledge of Brahman, his relationship with Brahman, and acts accordingly, then he is brahmana. And when he is perfectly situated in the eternal relationship with God, Visnu, then he becomes a Vaisnava. That is perfection of life.

Pusta Krsna: Is this practical in the present context?

Prabhupada: Yes. We are doing it. See. If anyone has eyes to see they can see how we are accepting the papa-yoni, so-called papa-yoni, to become the topmost Vaisnava. That is possible. Unless it is possible, how it is being done all over the world? There is no consideration. The process is so effective that it is being done. They are taking it as a proselytization. But it is not proselytizing. Proselytization means it is superflous.

Pusta Krsna: Excuse me, proselytization is...?

Prabhupada: Superfluous.

Pusta Krsna: Superfluous.

Prabhupada: If one is Hindu you make him a Christian, and you change the name. But what is the use of changing the name if you do not reform him about his character? Simply changing the name from Hindu to Muslim or Muslim to Christian, that does not make him a better...

Pusta Krsna: This next question is rather interesting. Question sixteen: "Is it not possible for all sections of Hindus, be they Advaitans, Dvaitans, or Visistadvaitans, to come together instead of remaining isolated as warring factions?"

Prabhupada: Yes. Dvaita and advaita... This is the process of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, to bring all the dvaitas and advaitas in one platform: to understand that he is essentially servant of God. The advaitas, they are wrongly thinking that he is God himself. That is wrong, or not the proper way of thinking. How you can become God? God is saḍ-aisvarya-pūrnam, full with six opulences: all-powerful, all-strength, all-beauty, all opulent. So this is artificial, to think to become God. And... This is advaita. And dvaitas, they think that one is different from God, God is separate from the living entity. But actually, from the Bhagavad-gita we understand that God is always the Supreme, and the living entities, they are subordinate. And in the Vedas also it is said, nityo nityanam cetanas cetananam [Katha Upanisad 2.2.13].

Both of them are living entities, but God is the chief. The difference between the two: that God maintains other living entities. Eko yo bahūnam vidadhati kaman [Katha Upanisad 2.2.13]. That is a fact. We are maintained and God is the maintainer. We are predominated, we are not independent, and God is predominator. But because the predominated living entities, they are part and parcel of God, therefore in quality they are one. This is acintya-bhedabheda: one and different. The living entity is one in the sense because he is part and parcel of God. So if God is gold, the living entity is also gold. That is one in quality. But God is great and we are minute, small. In that way we are different.

Now, Caitanya Mahaprabhu has enunciated acintya-bhedabheda, inconceivable, simultaneously one and different. That is real philosophy. So on this philosophy everyone can come if they are reasonable. If they remain unreasonably stuck up in their own concocted philosophy, then it is difficult. Otherwise, this is the fact, that the living entity is eternally part and parcel of God, sanatana. What is that verse? Find out: mamaivamso jiva-bhūtaḥ jiva-loke sanatana [Bg 15.7]. Fifteenth Chapter.

Pusta Krsna: Seventh verse.

"The living entities in this conditioned world are My eternal, fragmental parts. Due to conditional life they are struggling very hard with the six senses, which include the mind."

Prabhupada: So if he's eternal fragmental parts, how he can become one with the whole? The part is never equal to the whole. That is axiomatic truth. This is wrong conception, to become like God. The Mayavadis, they are trying to become God. That is impossible. They... Let them remain godly. Godly means servant of God. That will make him perfection, his life perfect. Vaisnava philosophy is to remain..., to act as servant of God. That is perfect. And if the servant tries to become like the master, that is artificial. Although in the spiritual world there is no difference between the master and the servant... Just like the boys, Krsna's cowherd boy friends, they do not know Krsna is God. They are playing with Him on equal terms. When Krsna is defeated in the play He has to take His friend on His shoulder, and he rides on the shoulder. So there is no such distinction who is God and who is not God. So that is spiritual conception. But the difference is always there, God and the part and parcel. Krta-punya-punjaḥ. We can attain that position after many, many lives' pious activities. That is stated in the Srimad-Bhagavatam.

These boys are playing with Krsna. Who is Krsna? He is the essence of Brahma-sukha, Param Brahman. So these boys are playing with Param Brahman. Ittham brahma-sukhanubhūtya dasyam gatanam para-daivatena. And for the devotees He's the supreme master, and for the ordinary man He is ordinary child. But these other children who are playing, they have got this position, krta-punya-punjaḥ. "After many, many births' pious activity, now I have got this position, playing with Krsna on equal terms." So this is the conception of devotional service, that when you go to the Goloka Vrndavana you cannot distinguish... But they have got unflinching love for Krsna. That is Vrndavana life. The cows, the calves, the trees, the flowers, the water, the elderly men, Nanda Maharaja and Yasodamayi-everyone is attached, central point is Krsna. Everyone is loving Krsna. And there is no such knowledge that Krsna is the Supreme Personality. Sometimes they see Krsna's wonderful activities and they talk on: "Krsna may be some demigod. He has come here." But they could never recognize that Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. When Krsna passed some dangerous position, so many demons were coming, mother Yasoda was chanting some mantras to protect Krsna, that "He may not be put into some calamity." They never understood that Krsna is the Supreme Personality. But their natural love for Krsna so intense. Therefore Vrndavana life is so exalted. Aradha... What is called? Aradhyo bhagavan vrajesa-tanaya tad-dhama vrndavanam. Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu says that first of all Krsna, Vrajendra-nandana, the son of Nanada Maharaja, He is aradhya. Tad-dhama vrndavanam. And His dhama, His abode, Vrndavana, is also worshipable. They are equal. Vrndavana-dhama and Krsna, they are equal.

So these are higher standard of understanding. Unless one is devotee, purified, he cannot understand that to become one with God is not the sublime idea. In Vrndavana one who wants to become the father or mother of God, to control God, that these Mayavadis cannot understand, Advaitavadis. This is to be understood by the pure devotion, devotees. What is the benefit to become equal with God? Just become... Equal... Other Vaisnava philosophies, they could not explain the our relationship with God, but Caitanya Mahaprabhu explained the higher relationship with God. That is called vatsalya-rasa and madhurya-rasa. Especially madhurya-rasa. Anarpita carim cirat karunayavatirnaḥ kalau samarpayitum unnatojjvala-rasam sva bhakti sriyam . Caitanya Mahaprabhu gave information of the madhurya-rasa, that our relationship can be with Krsna in conjugal love. So unless one comes to the platform of devotional service, one cannot understand. But for general understanding this philosophy of acintya-bhedabheda, simultaneously one and different... That is explained in this verse: mamaivamso jiva-bhūtaḥ [Bg 15.7]. The living entities are part and parcel of God. So if God is gold, then living entities are also gold. This is equality in quality. But God is great, and we are always subordinate. Eko yo bahūnam vidadhati kaman. We are protected, we are maintained, we are predominated. That is our position. We cannot attain the position of predominator. That is not possible.

Pusta Krsna: The next question, Srila Prabhupada, question seventeen: "What is the future of Hinduism?"

Prabhupada: There is no future. It is already gone. [laughter] [chuckles] The future is already there. And what do you want more future? A man was beaten with shoes, and again he said that "He has threatened me, to insult me." So if he is beaten with shoes, then what insult remains to be done again? So Hinduism now finished. Now take to the process of Krsna's order, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg 18.66]. Teach this teaching of Bhagavad-gita to the whole world. Not only Hinduism; Christianism and Muslimism, everything's gone. And even it is not gone, Krsna says, "Give up all this nonsense." Sarva-dharman parityajya. "Give up Hinduism, Muslimism, Christianism. Simply surrender unto Me." That is to be preached all over the world, and that is being effective. So if the Hindus are interested in Bhagavad-gita, which was spoken in the Hindustan, in the land of Hindus, they must seriously take to this instruction of Krsna and combine together and preach all over the world and make others benefited and themselves benefited. That is the only way. There is no other, second way.

Pusta Krsna: Next question. Question number eighteen: "As the world is coming to be divided into just two classes, atheist and theist, is it not advisable for all religions to come together? And what positive steps can be taken in this direction?"

Prabhupada: That is already taken, already explained: this Krsna consciousness movement. The atheist class and theist class, they will exist always. This is material world. Even at home the father is atheist, Hiranyakasipu, and the son is theist. So even at home the father and the son different. So that atheist class and theist class men will always exist in family, in community, in nation, in the..., as you go on. But the theist class should take to the proposition of the Bhagavad-gita and take shelter at his lotus feet, giving up so-called religious principles. That is oneness. Religion without conception of God, conception of God, is humbug, bogus. Religion means to accept the order of God. So if you have no conception of God, if you do not know who is God, so there is no question of accepting His order. It is stated in the Vedic literature, dharmam tu saksad bhagavat-pranitam [SB 6.3.19]. Find out this verse in the Sixth Canto. [background discussion among devotees as they try to find verse in index] Yamaraja's instruction.

Devotee: Yes.

[pause]

Hari-sauri: It's in this one.

Translation: "Real religious principles are enacted by..."

Prabhupada: Hah! Real.

Hari-sauri: "Real religious principles are enacted by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Although fully situated in the mode of goodness, even the great rsis who occupy the topmost planets cannot ascertain the real religious principles, nor can the demigods or the leaders of Siddhaloka, to say nothing of the asuras, ordinary human beings, Vidyadharas and Caranas."

Prabhupada: Hmm. [break]

Hari-sauri: This is Sixth Canto, Third Chapter, text nineteen. "When challenged by the Visnudūtas to describe the principles of religion, the Yamadūtas said, veda-pranihito dharmaḥ: the religious principles are the principles enacted in the Vedic literature. They did not know, however, that the Vedic literature contains ritualistic ceremonies that are not transcendental but are meant to keep peace and order among materialistic persons in the material world. Real religious principles are nistraigunya, above the three modes of material nature, or transcendental. The Yamadūtas did not know these transcendental religious principles, and therefore, when prevented from arresting Ajamila, they were surprised. Materialistic persons who attach all their faith to the Vedic rituals are described in Bhagavad-gita [Bg 15.15]. Those who do not know this principle but who simply attach their faith to the Vedic rituals are called veda-vada-rataḥ.

"Herein it is stated that the real religious principle is that which is given by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That principle is stated in Bhagavad-gita: sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg 18.66]. One should give up all other duties and surrender unto the lotus feet of Krsna. That is the real religious principle everyone should follow. Even though one follows Vedic scriptures, one may not know this transcendental principle, for it is not known to everyone. To say nothing of human beings, even the demigods in the upper planetary systems are unaware of it. This transcendental religious principle must be understood from the Supreme Personality of Godhead directly or from His special representative, as is stated in the next verses."

Prabhupada: So, therefore next verse.

Prabhupada: Vaiyasakir vayam.

Hari-sauri: Dvadasaite vijanimo...

Prabhupada: Dvadasaite.

Hari-sauri: Dharmam bhagavatam bhataḥ, guhyam visuddham durbodham yam jnatvamrtam asnute. "Lord Brahma, Bhagavan Narada, Lord Siva, the four Kumaras, Lord Kapila [the son of Devahūti], Svayambhuva Manu, Prahlada Maharaja, Janaka Maharaja, Grandfather Bhisma, Bali Maharaja, Sukadeva Gosvami and I myself [Yamaraja] know the real religious principle. My dear servants, this transcendental religious principle, which is known as bhagavat-dharma, or surrender unto the Supreme Lord..."

Prabhupada: So these people, these mahajanas, they know what is the principles of religion. Religion means bhagavata-dharma, to understand God and our relationship with God. That is religion. You may call it Hindu religion or Muslim religion or Christian religion, but real religion is that which teaches how to love God. Sa vai pumsam paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhoksaje [SB 1.2.6]. If by following the religious system you come to the platform of loving God, then your religious system is perfect. Otherwise it is a simply waste of time, bogus religion, without conception of God. So unless one understands what is God and what He says, and we have to abide by that order, then we are religious and there is religion and there is God, there is everything complete.

Pusta Krsna: This is off the record, but one may ask if someone like Christ or Moses was not mentioned amongst the mahajanas, present some sort of religion...

Prabhupada: No, mahajana there is in Christian messiahs. There is mahajana. And later on, after Christ, there was so many other: St. Matthew, St. Thomas, like that. Mahajana is mentioned there. How can you say there is no mahajana?

Pusta Krsna: Well, at least amongst these...

Prabhupada: Mahajana means who is strictly following the original religion. That is called mahajana. Or who know the things as they are. They are called mahajana. And that means parampara system. Just like Arjuna. Arjuna is learning Bhagavad-gita directly from Krsna. He's mahajana. So you learn from Arjuna. And after hearing Bhagavad-gita, as Arjuna acted, as Arjuna understood Krsna, you follow that. Then mahajano yena gataḥ sa panthaḥ [Cc Madhya 17.186].

Then you are following the mahajana. You are on the real path. Just like we are. Here it is said, mahajana, Svayambhu. Svayambhu means Brahma, Lord Brahma. So our, this sampradaya, Gauḍiya sampradaya, is Brahma-sampradaya. And Svayambhu, Narada. Narada is also in the Brahma-sampradaya. And Sambhu, Lord Siva, he is also mahajana. He has got his sampradaya, Rudra-sampradaya. And similarly, Sri-sampradaya. So all these sampradaya we must follow. Sampradaya vihina ye mantras te nisphala mataḥ [Padma Purana]. If you do not belong to sampradaya, mahajana, then you are useless. You cannot concoct any religious system. So either you be Christian or Hindu, it doesn't matter. You have to follow the mahajana. If a Christian says, "I don't believe in St. Thomas," what kind of Christian he is? Similarly, it doesn't matter who is a maha... But real mahajana is he who is strictly following the principle as enunciated by God. That is religious system. Otherwise there is no religion. There is no question of religion. It is simply concoction. Mano-dharmi, mental speculator. Mental speculation is not religion. Religion is the order of Krsna, and one who follows that order, he is religious. That's all.

Pusta Krsna: This next question, Srila Prabhupada, question nineteen.

Prahupada: Now this question is clear? Just see it.

Pusta Krsna: Yes. So far I can understand, you're saying that there's no need to label that there's one religion in the world. Rather, everyone can...

Prabhupada: One religion is there already, that how to love God. This is one religion. Will the Christian say, "No. We don't want to love God"? Will the Christians say? Will the Muhammadans say, "No, no. We don't want to love God"? So religion means how to love God, and any religion which teaches how to love God, that is perfect. It doesn't matter whether he's Christian or Muslim or Hindu. It doesn't matter. You have to be educated to take your degree. It doesn't matter from which college you take degree. Similarly, religion means you have to learn how to love God. If you have no love for God, it is all useless. That is not religion. Dharmam tu saksad bhagavat-pranitam [SB 6.3.19].

Saksad, Bhagavan Krsna says, "You surrender unto Me." You cannot surrender until you love. You are surrendered to me. I am also an Indian. Because you have love for me, therefore there is surrender. If I say that "You die," you'll die. Why? Because you love me. So when there will be surrender? Unless one loves God. Unless that platform is not there, that "I love you. I can sacrifice everything for you," that is on the basic principle of love. Therefore that religion is perfect which teaches the followers how to love God. This is religious principle.

So let everyone come to this platform, how to love God. That is Krsna consciousness. We are teaching nothing but training them how to love God, how they can sacrifice everything for God. So that is religion. Otherwise a bogus waste of time, simply following the ritualistic ceremonies. That is not religion. That is superfluous.

You are very good, you are following your religious principle very strictly, adherently. That's all right. But what about your love of God? "Oh, that I do not know." So sastra says, srama eva hi... It is simply waste of time, and simply laboring. That's all. If you have not learned to love God, then what is the meaning of your religion? Then, when you're actually on the platform of love of God, you understand your relationship with God, that "I am part and parcel of God. Not only I am part and parcel of God, this dog is also part and parcel of... Every living entity." Then you'll extend love for animal also. If you actually love God, then your love for insect also is there because you understand that "This insect, it has got a different body only, but he is also part and parcel, or my brother." Samaḥ sarvesu bhūtesu. Then you cannot maintain slaughterhouse. If you maintain slaughterhouse and disobey the order of Christ, "Thou shall not kill," and you proclaim yourself as Christian or Hindu or this... That is not religion. Then srama eva hi kevalam. Your going to the temple and church and everything is simply waste of time. Srama eva hi kevalam. Because you do not understand God. You have no love for God. That is going on, all over the world. They're stamping under some sect, but there is no real religion.

So in order to bring them all in one platform, they have to accept the principles of Bhagavad-gita: "Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead." If you do not accept in the beginning Krsna, that He is the supreme, then you try to understand that He is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is education. There is somebody supreme. So if I say, because I am Hindu, I am Indian, that "Krsna is the Supreme," you may say, "Then why Krsna? Krsna is Indian." "No. He is God." Just like the sun rises first in India, then comes to Europe. But that does not mean the sun is different. Similarly, Krsna, although appeared in India, now He has come to Western countries, Krsna consciousness movement. You try to understand whether Krsna is not God or God. But He is God. There is no doubt about it. If you have got intelligence to understand what is God, then try to understand. But He is God undoubtedly. So take to Krsna consciousness and abide by the order of Krsna. Then everyone comes on the same platform, the religious platform, one religion, Krsna consciousness.

Pusta Krsna: Question nineteen, this is...

Prabhupada: Now, this is clear or not?

Pusta Krsna: Oh, yes.

Prabhupada: Anyone? We are part and parcel of Krsna; our business is to surrender to Him. And Krsna personally advises that "You surrender unto Me. I shall give you all protection." This is religion.

Pusta Krsna: Sometimes we meet people in our preaching activities. They may, of course, claim to be very devout Christian or Muslim, but at the same time they will blaspheme Krsna. Is it possible that such persons can actually be associates of God?

Prabhupada: No, no. It is just like in our Krsna consciousness movement there are so many Christians, so many Jews, so many Muhammadan and Hindus. Everyone is there. It is a question of understanding. So in the beginning if... But if he's serious to understand what is God, then he will accept Krsna the Supreme Lord. If he knows what is God, then he'll understand, "Here is God." If he remains in darkness, he does not know what is God, then how he'll understand Krsna? He'll understand Krsna as one of us. That's all. But if he knows what is God, then he'll understand, "Yes, here is God." Just like if a person knows what is gold, then anywhere gold, he'll understand, "Here is gold." It does not mean only gold..., in certain shop only gold is available. But if he knows what is God, what is meaning of God, that he will find in Krsna in fullness. Krsnas tu bhagavan svayam [SB 1.3.28].

The sastra says how He is Bhagavan, what is Bhagavan. You should understand and see from the activities of Krsna whether He is not Bhagavan. It requires brain to understand. I say, "Here is God." Now it is up to you. If you know what is God, then test it, and then you'll accept God. If you do not know how to test it, then you may refuse. That is another thing. You'll accept iron as gold. That is your ignorance. You do not know what is gold. But if you actually know what is gold, you will accept Krsna as God, there is no doubt about it. So this is the only platform, Bhagavad-gita. Everyone come and take to Krsna and understand God and learn how to love Him, and your life is perfect.

Pusta Krsna: But if the Christians are saying that "This is the only platform, Bible," and the Muslims are saying, "This is the only platform, Koran," and the community of followers of Bhagavad...

Prabhupada: But we have to see by the result. The result is... Only platform..., that only platform, that is decided... Sa vai pumsam paro dharmaḥ. That is actually religion. How? Yato bhaktir adhoksaje. If one has learned how to love God. If there is no love of God, then what is the use of claiming that this is the only platform? Where is the sign of love of Godhead? That is to be seen. Simply if you say... Everyone will say, "This, my..., this property is the best," or "My understanding is..." But there must be practical proof. The practical proof-say how to love God, what is the process of loving God. If you do not know your relationship with God and others' relationship with God, then how you know God? That is lacking. Nobody can give clear conception of God. Can the Christians give? Then where is love of God? If you have no understanding of what is God, where is the question of love? Love is not fictitious. You cannot love air. You love a person, a beautiful person, a beautiful woman. If you say, "I love air. I love the sky..." Where there is question of love? There must be a person. So who is that person we want to love? But they have no personal conception of God, neither they can describe the personal beauty, capacity, strength, saḍ-aisvarya-pūrnaḥ. There is no such description. So they have got the conception of God, but actually they do not know what is God. But religion means you must know God and love Him. That is religion. That is first-class religion. Is that clear or not?

Pusta Krsna: Yes.

Prabhupada: When there is question of love, then you must know what is God, then love. But if you do not know who is God, then how do you love Him?

Pusta Krsna: Are these actually the tangible signs by which one can judge what is real religion?

Prabhupada: Yes. Real religion is how to love God. And love cannot be done without knowing the person whom you love. That is the criterion, test. So if you have no conception God, His personality, then how you'll love? Where is the question of love? Love is something tangible. It is not fictitious. So we accept, Krsna conscious people, Krsna is God, and we are worshiping Krsna. And we are making progress. Just see our behavior and other persons' behavior and judge. Hmm? What do you think?

Kuladri: We had one priest who came. He was discussing with Kirtanananda Maharaja. He did not know what God looked like, he never gave anything, never talked about God, but he said he loved God.

Prabhupada: Then? What kind of love it is?

Kuladri: Nor did he say his people ever came to church. He said, "At best they come once a week." He said that's all that is necessary.

Prabhupada: Well, love does not mean that you come once in a week at my house. Love means you come to my house, give me some presentation and take something from me. Dadati pratigrhnati bhuhkte bhojayate caiva saḍ-vidham priti-laksanam .

Love means if you love somebody, then you must give him something, you must accept something from him. Dadati pratigrhnati. You must disclose your mind to him, and he should disclose his mind to you. Dadati pratigrhnati guhyam akhyati prcchati, and bhuhkte bhojayate. If you love somebody, you give him something eatable, and whatever eatable he offers, you accept. These six kinds of exchange makes love. But if you do not know the person, the boy or the girl, then where is the question of love? Love begins... If you love some girl, if you love some boy, then you give something, some presentation, and he gives you some presentation. That develops love. You give something to eat, and whatever he gives you to eat, you eat. You disclose your mind, "My dear such and such, I love you. This is my ambition." He dis... These are the exchange of love.

So if there is no person-to-person meeting, where is the question of love? That is not love. If I love somebody and weekly I visit that house, "This is the house," that's all, where is the exchange of love? Love means there is exchange. If you love somebody, if you have not given anything to that somebody, neither you have taken something from him, where is the love? Is that love? Means imperfect knowledge. If love... The conclusion is religion means to love God, and to love God means you must know who is God. There cannot be any other alternative. You must know the person who is God. Then you exchange. That we are teaching. We are asking our disciples to rise early in the morning, offer mahgala-arati, then bhoga-arati. Are we so fools, rascals, that we are wasting time in worshiping a doll like that? Sometimes they think like that. But that is not the fact. You know definitely, "Here is Krsna. He is God, and we must love Him like this." That is the superexcellence of Krsna consciousness movement. We do everything definitely, on positive platform. Is that clear? Huh? Or anyone, any question?

Pradyumna: Then... You said we must know God before we can love Him. So that means devotional service is preceded by knowledge.

Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. Yes, that is the process in the Bhagavad-gita. There are eighteen chapter. The whole eighteen chapters is the education how to know God. And when Arjuna, completely in awareness, he accepted, "Krsna, You are param brahma, param dhama [Bg 10.12]," that is understanding of God. Then surrender, sarva-dharman parityajya [Bg 18.66]. Unless you know God, how you'll surrender? If some third-class man comes, "You surrender unto me," will you do that? Why shall I surrender to him? You must know, "Now, here is God. I must surrender." The eighteen chapter is described to know God, and then Krsna proposes, "Surrender unto Me." Then Arjuna did it, "Yes." So without knowing, how you can surrender? Know God. Then you surrender. Otherwise how, blindly, you can surrender? That is not possible.

So this is the science how to know God: Bhagavad-gita. The preliminary. If you want to know more, then read Bhagavatam. And if you are in intense love with God, then next, Caitanya-caritamrta-how the intensification can be more intensified. That is Caitanya-caritamrta. So Bhagavad-gita is the preliminary book to understand God and surrender. And from the surrendering point, further progress, that is Srimad-Bhagavatam. And when the love is intense, to make it more intensified, that is Caitanya-caritamrta. Just like Caitanya Mahaprabhu, mad after God. Sūnyayitam jagat sarvam govinda-virahena me [Siksastaka 7]:

"I find everything vacant without Krsna." That is the supreme ecstasy. So these things cannot happen [chuckles] without love. If you love somebody, then if he's not there, you find everything vacant. Otherwise why? There are so many things. "How," people will say, "you are seeing vacant? Everything is filled up." That is another stage, transcendental platform. Lover and beloved, they can understand. Sūnyayitam jagat sarvam govinda-virahena me. That is supreme stage of love. Is that clear or not?

Pradyumna: There's just one more thing. What's the minimum knowledge one must have to...

Prabhupada: "God is great." That's all. "God is great." Krsna proved that He's great; therefore He's God. Everyone says, "God is great." Allahu akbar, Muslims say. "God is great." It is translated, "God is great." And Hindu says param brahma. So God is great. So Krsna proved that He is all-great. Therefore He is God. Krsna, when He was present, He proved it that He is the great. Therefore He is God. If you accept God is great, and if you find somebody, He is great in everything, then He's God. How can I deny it? At least, you can see Krsna great by His Bhagavad-gita. It is still going on. Five thousand years passed, still Bhagavad-gita is accepted as the greatest book of knowledge all over the world. Even among the Christians, among the Muslims, those who are really learned, they take it, "Yes." That is greatness of Krsna, the knowledge. Who can give such knowledge? That is the proof that He is God. Aisvaryasya samagrasya viryasya yasasaḥ... [Visnu Purana 6.5.74]. Jnana, knowledge. Where is such knowledge throughout the whole world? Everything, every line is sublime knowledge. If one studies scrutinizingly Bhagavad-gita, you'll find Krsna is Supreme Lord.

Pusta Krsna: Next question, Srila Prabhupada. Question nineteen: "Do you envisage or envision a different role for Hinduism in the Western countries, where the influence of other great religions has been felt for centuries?" Do you see a different role for Hinduism in the Western countries, where the influence of other great religions has been felt for centuries?

Prabhupada: No. There is no different role. God is one. God cannot be duplicate. As it is stated in the Bhagavad-gita that mattaḥ parataram nanyat kincid asti dhananjaya [Bg 7.7]: "There is no more superior authority than Me." That is God. Now people is to understand that Krsna is God. There is no different role. The role is the same. Five thousand years Krsna said that "I am the supreme authority. There is no more superior authority than Me." Still He is so. So we are simply attempting to introduce Krsna. Nobody attempted. Although five thousand years passed, nobody attempted to introduce the Supreme Authority, Krsna. We are just trying to introduce, following the orders of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. He, five hundred years, appeared. He is Krsna. He wanted that this Krsna consciousness should be spread all over the world.

Krsna is not for India. He is for everyone, because He is God. He claims that "I am the seed-giving father for all living entities." Not only the human society, but also other living entities like the aquatics, the insects, the plants and the animals, all living entities. He says, aham bija-pradaḥ pita [Bg 14.4]. Everything is there. But this cult of Krsna consciousness, or Bhagavad-gita as it is, was not preached properly. Everyone interpreted Bhagavad-gita in his own way to satisfy his own whims. We are just trying for the first time to present Bhagavad-gita as it is, and it is being effective. So it is not a different role. It is the actual role. Nobody tried for it. Therefore Krsna was unknown. But we are trying for this for the few years. But because it is reality, it is being accepted. It is being accepted. No attempt was made that. So it is not a new role. The role is already there: to preach. That is Caitanya Mahaprabhu's vision. He says especially to Indian people,

Indians are meant to do this business for para-upakara, because all over the world they are unaware of Krsna. So anyone who is actually Indian, he should attempt to broadcast the message of Bhagavad-gita and Krsna. That is order of Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

This is paropakara. They are suffering without any knowledge of Krsna. Give them this knowledge. That is para-upakara, doing welfare activities to others. So that attempt is now being made, and people actually accepting. So it is not a new role. The role is already there. Caitanya Mahaprabhu five hundred years told, years before He told it. But the so many svamis and yogis, they came here, they never introduced Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Now it is being done, and people are accepting, naturally. This is Krsna consciousness movement. So if everyone joins, either Indian, non-Indian, in this movement there will be one religion and there will be peace. Peace will prevail. This is the only way.

This is the way of santi: understand Krsna, that He is the supreme enjoyer, He is the supreme proprietor, and He is the supreme friend for everyone. Accept Krsna as your friend, you'll be happy. This is the message of Krsna consciousness.

Pusta Krsna: This next question is very closely related to the last question. Question twenty: "What is your view regarding proselytization, or preaching? If you are..."

Prabhupada: It is not proselytization. Proselytization has no meaning. To bring one to the real understanding. Krsna says that mamaivamso jiva-bhūtaḥ [Bg 15.7]. All living entities are His part and parcel. He claims, sarva-yonisu kaunteya [Bg 14.4]: "In all forms of life, as many living entities are there," aham bija-pradaḥ, "I am the seed-giving father." So the natural position is that every living entity, not only human being, but also animals, plants, everyone... So why not Indian, American, or Czechoslovakian, everyone is part and parcel of Krsna? So it is not the process of proselytizing to convince the idea. It is actually bringing them to their real position, that they're all part and parcel of Krsna. It is not artificial proselytization, that "You are Christian; now you are Hindu," or "You are Hindu; now you are Christian," "You are a sweeper; now you are harijana." It is not like that. It is actually bringing him to his own position, part and parcel of God. It is not... Proselytization will not stand. When one comes to the real understanding of his position, then that will continue. This Krsna consciousness movement is that: bringing one to the original position. He's in diseased condition; he's thinking otherwise than servant of Krsna. Now this movement is trying to bring everyone to the position that he is eternal servant of Krsna. It is not a rubberstamp proselytization, that "You are Hindu; now you are Christian," or "You are Christian; now are Hindu." So if he does not know what is his position, by simply stamping that he is Hindu or Muslim or Christian, what benefit he will derive?

Pusta Krsna: The same ignorance.

Prabhupada: If you keep him in the ignorant platform, then what is the benefit of making a Hindu Muslim or Muslim Hindu? That was going on, "holy war," between Christian and the Muslim. Because both of them will die. [chuckles] And they are engaged in holy war. War, but "holy war." "Holy impiety." Artificial change of "ism" will not help. One must know the philosophy of life. One must know what is God. One must learn how to love God. That is real life.

Pusta Krsna: There is one more question, Srila Prabhupada. Question twenty-one: "Are changes visible in Hinduism in its doctrinal content, mode of individual and collective worship, as a result of Hinduism's contact with the West?"

Prabhupada: Yes, they are worshiping... This is... First of all, you must forget that this Krsna consciousness movement is not Hinduism. It is Vaisnavism. Vaisnava means Visnu is the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and one who loves Visnu, or loves God, he is Vaisnava. So Hinduism is not like that. Present conception of Hinduism, they have got so many demigods. Demigods are there in the Vedas, but demigod worshipers, they are all materialistic person. It is stated in the Bhagavad-gita that kamais tais tair hrta-jnanaḥ yajanti anya-devataḥ [Bg 7.20]: those who are worshiper of demigods, they are lusty, kamuka. And the kamuka platform is material world. Lusty. Everyone is trying to enjoy sense gratification. So demigod worship is for sense gratification. If you worship Durga, then you pray, "Mother Durga, give me name, fame, wealth, good wife and so on, so on." Dhanam dehi rūpam dehi rūpavati-bharyam dehi, simply demanding for sense gratification. So that is not love of Godhead. That is to select one agent of God and exact from him as much as you can for your sense gratification. That is not recommended in the Vedic religion. Vedic religion, although there are demigods, but the ultimate is om tad visnoḥ paramam padam sada pasyanti sūrayaḥ [Rg Veda 1.22.20]. Those who are sūraya, actually advanced, they see to the visnu paramam padam. Visnor aradhanam param. The worship of Visnu is the supreme worship. So actually everyone should be worshiper of Visnu. And that is Vaisnavism.

So Vaisnavism means for everyone, or sanatana dharma. That I have already explained. The human... The living entity is sanatana. Mamaivamso jiva-bhūtaḥ jiva-loke sanatana [Bg 15.7]. He is sanatana. God is sanatana. The exchange between God and the living entity is called sanatana-dharma, or Vaisnavism. So we are teaching that. We are not teaching Hinduism, Muslimism, Christianism. We are teaching how to love God. That's all. There is no question of proselytization. It is the natural. We are, by nature, we are lover of God. Just like father and son. The love is already there. It cannot be extinguished. The father and son may be separated for many, many years, but when they come together the affection immediately revives. So we are teaching that, that we have got eternal relationship with God, and revive it. We are embarassed by establishing artificial relationship with my family, country and society and so-called religions. These are all artificial. Real relationship, that "God is great and I am His servant," that is real religion. So we are teaching that thing.

Pusta Krsna: So the teaching is the same in India as it is in the Western countries.

Prabhupada: Yes. That is being proved. Otherwise how they are worshiping Krsna all over the world?

Pusta Krsna: This question here is "In doctrinal content and mode of individual and collective worship..." Is that to say that in your preaching in the Western countries and your preaching in India, you haven't attempted... In the Western countries, where there is so many mlecchas, outcastes, so to speak...

Prabhupada: That is accepted by Krsna. Even one is mleccha. Mam hi partha vyapasritya ye 'pi syuḥ papa-yonayaḥ [Bg 9.32]. So there is no question. That is artificial. One is mleccha or one is brahmana, but that is artificial. That is skin. But within the skin of the mleccha or the brahmana the same spirit soul is there. Therefore those who are panḍita, those who are learned,

One who is actually learned, he sees the same spirit soul within the brahmana, within the mleccha, within the cat. [break] [end]