Audio

Prabhupada: ...fruits, flowers, also grains, milk sufficient. In one farm, Philadelphia, they are producing so much milk that they are selling $1,500.- per month. And they've arranged so nice, and big tank.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: For milk.

Prabhupada: And the pipes regularly, as they do in dairy farm. When it is not working, only hot water is passing through the pipes to keep them clean. And one cow, the milk bag is so big, he gives 102 pounds daily. Similarly, in France also we have got farm. New Orleans, Philadelphia, West Virginia. We have got four or five.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: San Diego, near Los Angeles.

Prabhupada: Yes. And all of them are successful. This time I installed Krsna-Balarama Deity in France.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: Paris, near Paris.

Prabhupada: Yes. Near Orleans.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: I am thinking of going again on a world tour for my business, because we want to start some export business. So I'll start with Iran, then some other countries in Middle East, then Europe, America, Australia, New Zealand, Fiji, Mauritius and Seychelles. I've got friends all over the places, so they will come here, and we have some export business of cloth...

Prabhupada: Mauritius is not developed. Fiji is good. Mauritius a poor country. Fiji well-to-do, more business, many Gujaratis. Mostly Gujaratis.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: I've got somebody in New Zealand also. They are selling for last four years.

Prabhupada: Fiji and New Zealand...

Kartikeya Mahadevia: Are very prosperous.

Prabhupada: Yes. They have got good dealings, purchase and selling.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: Did you meet Mr. Patel met you in Tehran? Bokubhai Patel? One Indian is settled there, Patel.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: Bokubhai Patel. Ramaben and Bakubhai. They are very good friends of mine. So I am going to him only. Maitreya Muni is also there, he is also there.

Prabhupada: Oh, yes.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: He is a very nice man.

Prabhupada: She came to see me twice, Mrs. Patel. She is very nice...

Kartikeya Mahadevia: Very devoted. Her father is my father's friend, Mr. Gigubhai Kotak. He was chairman of the Gold Control Board in India. Handlooms are working very nicely. That side of textile, which are made by hand, they are prospering like anything because...

Prabhupada: They have to remain naked.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: No, khadi is available, so no problem.

Prabhupada: Available is everything. If you pay, everything is available. In Calcutta they say, "If you pay, I can supply you tiger's blood." If you pay, everything is available. People have lost completely interest in spiritual life. They have lost completely.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: But in the new generation we think our children are more interested in religion or the bhakti than the parents. That is a new development. People who are, oh, say 25 or 15, they are not. But the children who are below ten or... [break]

Prabhupada: ...parents should encourage. They have no interest even.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: At the school level, something can be done. Suppose we...

Prabhupada: The authorities will not allow. School authorities, if you say that you want hold kirtana, they will not allow. Mandah sumanda-matayo manda-bhagya hy upadrutah . This is Kali-yuga. All bad. And even one is interested, he is interested in something bogus. Sumanda-matayah. They have manufactured a style of religious principle. Mandah sumanda-matayo manda-bhagyah. And all unfortunate.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: Yesterday I met one Life Member who belongs to a very reputed family in Bombay who has donated about fifteen acres of land to Swami Cinmayananda on the Vihar Lake side. Now he has become our patron member yesterday.

Prabhupada: Vihar Lake?

Kartikeya Mahadevia: Vihar Lake. I think we have gone to see that big temple near Powai. So this family has got about thirty, forty acres of land on the Powai side. Very beautiful site.

Prabhupada: ...that to know God there is no necessity of education. [break]

Kartikeya Mahadevia: No, he has got nothing. He cannot tell. Any children ask "What is this?" he will not be able to tell because he's not reading anything.

Prabhupada: So you don't train, how they will learn?

Kartikeya Mahadevia: No, he himself is not trained, so he cannot give any answer to the children. So I told him, "At least you get their ISKCON books. You can read now before the children can read." So he immediately signed up. He immediately paid 2222 rupees by check, and he agreed, "I'll read Bhagavad-gita and everything."

Prabhupada: We don't require much money also. We require men first. Money will come. Money is coming. I started this business forty...

Kartikeya Mahadevia: Forty rupees.

Prabhupada: So there is no scarcity of money. Now our daily collection is six lakhs of rupees throughout the whole world.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: Per day.

Prabhupada: Per day. So there is no scarcity of money. A business started with forty rupees bringing six lakhs daily, it is not ordinary business.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: No, extraordinary. Most extraordinary. Everybody wondering that only, how it has been done.

Prabhupada: Krsna is giving. I never thought my books will be sold so much. I never... Neither in the history of human society religious books sell six lakhs of rupees daily.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: It has never happened.

Prabhupada: And it is selling where? Where they are not Hindus.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: Yes, all Christian countries, so-called; Westernized countries.

Prabhupada: In the country of Hindus it is selling very less in comparison to what we are selling daily.

Gopala Krsna: It's hard to talk. Vrndavana alone is doing six, seven hundred rupees a day in book sales.

Prabhupada: Still, six lakhs or six hundred. No, I say this is unique in the history. Now we have got..., we are going to print, next our printing program... Bring it from Harikesa. I am being surprised. Fifty thousand, one lakh, five hundred thousand each item.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: Each item. In Ahmedabad there is a very religious person who was not becoming Life Member at all. Without seeing the balance sheet and this and that and all those. And I told him, "What do you mean by balance sheet? Only money matters? If ten thousand foreigners are being converted and they are following this religion and this culture, everything, is it not part of the balance sheet? Only rupees and paisas you want to see, then that's a different matter. Here the people are chanting every day sixteen rounds, they have left so many bad vices, they are propagating all over the world." Then he immediately signed up. He has gone to... He might have met you in New York. Chandrakant Degabhaiwala. He was to come on 18th July in New York. He has gone to America to see his son there.

Prabhupada: In America, in New York, they have got a very...

Kartikeya Mahadevia: Very good temple. Tamala Krsna Goswami wrote to me. My friend was also there. Mr. Bhateja has met you I think.

Prabhupada: It is twelve...

Kartikeya Mahadevia: Twelve stories.

Prabhupada: In the middle of downtown.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: Manhattan.

Prabhupada: That Empire State Building, it is...

Gopala Krsna: [reading] "Bhaktivedanta Book Trust, tentative printing schedule: Vyasa-puja..." This is first the title, then the printer and the delivery date. "July: 2,000 copies, very early August. Nectar of Instruction goes to the printer in late July, 100,000 copies to be ready by early September. Srimad-Bhagavatam, First Canto, Part 2, reprint, goes to the printer in late July: 50,000 copies, ready by September. Srimad-Bhagavatam Eighth Canto, Part 1, goes to the printer in August: 20,000 copies, ready by late September. Bhagavad-gita reprint goes to the printer in August: 500,000 copies, ready by late September. Then there's a book by one of Prabhupada's disciples, Satsvarupa Goswami, goes to the printer in late August. Krsna trilogy paperback goes to the printer early September: 100,000 copies each, and ready by late September. Srimad-Bhagavatam, First Canto, Part 3, being reprinted, goes to the printer in early September: 50,000 copies, ready by late October. And three catalogues go to the printer early September: 55,000 copies, ready early October. There's another new book by Prabhupada: Perfect Questions, Perfect Answers, goes to the printer in September: 100,000 copies, ready late October. Srimad-Bhagavatam Eighth Canto, Part 2, goes to the printer late September: 20,000 copies, ready early November. Srimad-Bhagavatam Second Canto, Part 2, reprint, goes to the printer late September: 20,000 copies, ready November. Srimad-Bhagavatam First Canto, Part 1, reprint, goes to the printer in early September: 50,000 copies, ready in November. Srimad-Bhagavatam Eighth Canto, Part 3, goes to the printer in late October, ready early December: 20,000 copies. Srimad-Bhagavatam Second Canto, Part 1, reprint, goes to the printer early November: 50,000 copies, ready early December. Srimad-Bhagavatam Ninth Canto, Part 1, goes to the printer in late November: 20,000 copies, ready early January. Srimad-Bhagavatam Ninth Canto, Part 2, goes to the printer early January: 20,000 copies, ready late February. Krsna book, hardbound, Volume 1, reprint, goes to the printer early January: 100,000 copies, ready late February. Srimad-Bhagavatam Ninth Canto, Part 3, goes to the printer early February: 20,000 copies, ready late March. Krsna book, hardbound, Volume 2, reprint, goes to the printer in February: 100,000 copies, ready early April. Krsna book, Volume 3, reprint, goes to the printer in February: 100,000 copies, ready early April."

Prabhupada: We are the biggest publisher in the world about religious and philosophical.

Gopala Krsna: This schedule is only till next March.

Prabhupada: [Transl. Please come. Your health is all right, no?]

Gopala Krsna's mother: [Transl. I am well.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Your eyes are okay now?]

Gopala Krsna's mother: [Transl. No. It is same.]

Prabhupada: She is Gopala's mother.

Gopala Krsna's mother: [Transl. Kindly give him prasada for today is his birth day.]

Gopala Krsna: [Transl. It's okay Ma.]

Prabhupada: [to Gopala Krsna's mother:] Take, distribute. You can distribute in your hand.

Gopala Krsna: I have shown this schedule to many publishers who print our books. They all say that even big publishers cannot match this schedule. [break]

Prabhupada: ...for this good land, now it is coming nice.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: What is the amount of money you would like to spend on land? Because we have seen another bungalow, we can talk about it. Very good land is available, 2,400 square yards.

Prabhupada: Nobody is interested to retire from family life. Na te viduh svartha-gatim hi visnum [SB 7.5.31]. The difficulty is they do not know their own self-interest. Svartha-gati. Everyone says, "My self-interest first." But he does not know what is his self-interest. Na te viduh. Actually what is the..., because he does not know self. Aiye. Beginning of education in Bhagavad-gita: self-interest. Krsna giving first lesson, asocyan anvasocas tvam prajna-vadams ca bhasase [Bg 2.11]: "You are talking as a very learned man, prajna-van, but your action is not like learned." Gatasun agatasums nanusocanti panditah. The subject matter, he was lamenting that "If I kill my brothers, my sister-in-laws will become widow and will become prostitute, and varna-saṅkara." "You are talking just like learned man, but on the basis of bodily relationship." So this is not the business of pandita. Nanusocanti panditah.

So this is the position. People are unaware of self-interest. Simply on bodily concept of life they are working day and..., whole day and night. He does not know dehantara-praptih [Bg 2.13]. His body will change, and the soul will have to accept another body. He does not know what kind of body he's going to accept. [aside:] Ask him not to talk. This is ignorance. Everywhere, all over the... Na te viduh svartha-gatim hi visnum [SB 7.5.31]. And there is no other institution, perhaps throughout the whole world, who is teaching about the self-interest. That is a fact. Because they do not know. What they'll teach? They do not know. Apasyatam atma-tattvam grhesu grha-medhinam [SB 2.1.2]. This is Sukadeva Gosvami's first instruction to Maharaja Pariksit. When he asked, "Now I am on the verge of death. What is my duty? What shall I do? What shall I hear? What shall I...?" So he eulogized him that "You are anxious to hear." Variyan esa te prasnah [SB 2.1.1]. Hmm? [aside:] Find out this verse, Second Canto, Srimad-Bhagavatam.

Yasomatinandana: "Your question is glorious because it is very beneficial to all kinds of people. To hear the answer to this question is the prime subject matter of hearing, and it is approved by all transcendentalists." Purport: "Even the very question is so nice that it is the best subject matter for hearing. Simply by such questioning and hearing one can achieve the highest perfectional stage of life. Because Lord Krsna is the original Supreme Person, any question about Him is original and perfect. Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu said that the highest perfection of life is to achieve the transcendental loving service of Krsna. Because questions and answers about Krsna elevate one to the transcendental position, the questions of Maharaja Pariksit about Krsna philosophy are greatly glorified. Maharaja Pariksit wanted to absorb his mind completely in Krsna, and such absorption can be effected simply by hearing about the uncommon activities of Krsna. For instance, in the Bhagavad-gita it is stated that simply by understanding the transcendental nature of Lord Krsna's appearance, disappearance and activities, one can immediately return back to home, back to Godhead."

Prabhupada: They do not know what is back to home, back to Godhead. Home is here in India, and again back to Godhead? And somebody say, "Here is America. It is my home." And when you say that he'll be kicked out after some years, then home finished. They are satisfied, that home finished, that's all. In such ignorance they are living. And for this home they are busy. Grhesu grha-medhinam. Apasyatam atma-tattvam grhesu grha-medhinam [SB 2.1.2].

Grhamedhi, attached to this home, from which he'll be kicked out. Krsna says, "I'll take it out, everything." Mrtyuh sarva-haras caham [Bg 10.34]. "I come before you as death and take everything, whatever you have got." That's a fact. Everyone is accumulating, but at the time of death he'll be forced to give it up. He'll be forced to give up the body which he is maintaining so nicely. That he is experiencing. Still, apasyatam atma-tattvam. Because he does not know what is self-interest, he remains ignorant and dies. This is going on. And leaders-andha yathandhair upaniyamanah [SB 7.5.31]. Blind leaders, they are encouraging, "Yes, kick yourself. You live here as nationalist. This is your interest. And fight between one nation to one nation, one man to one man." And they have taken this is value. Apasyatam atma-tattvam grhesu grha-medhinam [SB 2.1.2]. Next verse you read.

Translation: "Those persons who are materially engrossed, being blind to the knowledge of ultimate truth, have many things as subject matter for hearing in the human society, O emperor."

Prabhupada: See newspaper? Hundreds of thousands of news. Here they are ten pages. In foreign countries, such a big bundle. Srotavyadini rajendra nrnam santi sahasrasah [SB 2.1.2]. Thousands and thousands news. But no news about atma-tattvam. That is not to be taken. They do not know. So many newspapers. Therefore they are purchasing our books. They are intelligent. They are seeing something new. That is, they are intelligent man. Because they have never seen such books. There is elaborate science of God. One can go back to home, back to Godhead. You can talk with Him, you can eat with Him. These things are surprising.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: First time they are hearing.

Prabhupada: Yes. That is the cause we are selling six lakhs of rupees' worth books daily. They understand it is not so-called religious sentiment; it is science. Our so-called svamis and yogis, they never tried. They did not know also. Big, big svamis, they went there. Instead of teaching them, he was taught how to eat meat. Sannyasi eating meat. He was convinced, "Yes, why not?" At least, in India still, the sannyasis they do not eat meat. Except that rascal missionary. No one. There may be difference of opinion, Mayavadis, but their behavior is the same.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: Sadacari. [proper code of conduct.]

Prabhupada: Sadacara is there. But these people, asadacari, and passing as sannyasi. Cigarette, meat-eating and everything, drinking. We are asking common men to give it up, and they say, "Oh, what is the wrong there?" [aside:] Please come. They do not know what is the wrong there. This time in Iran we initiated some Iranian. Some Afghans also coming.

Gopala Krsna: We have Arabic Isopanisad ready for printing that was translated by your Lebanese disciple.

Prabhupada: Oh, that he has done. He promised our...

Gopala Krsna: Mohattaji. He told me to give it to him and he'd print it on his press.

Prabhupada: Give this light. [break]

Kartikeya Mahadevia: Chinese, German, French, Italian, English...

Gopala Krsna: Swedish is coming.

Prabhupada: Dutch. Dutch.

Gopala Krsna: Italian is at the printer. Italian Gita.

Devotee: French Bhagavatam.

Prabhupada: French Bhagavatam. No, Dutch Bhagavatam. Dutch also. No, they have printed. I have seen it.

Devotee: Spanish also.

Prabhupada: They may live in darkness. And why in India, where there is Bhagavad-gita? Apart from all other Vedic literatures, set aside, the gist of all Vedic knowledge, Bhagavad-gita, there is. And still, people are kept into darkness. How much lamentable. Still, big, big leaders, at least, they want to preach Bhagavad-gita-without Krsna. They have set aside lakhs of rupees for preaching Bhagavad-gita, but condition is if you preach without Krsna. Just see. Bhagavad-gita, in every page it is written sri-bhagavan uvaca. Not even it is said krsnah uvaca. Because some rascal may take Krsna as ordinary human being, therefore Vyasadeva has specifically said. People know it, krsnah uvaca, but he says sri-bhagavan uvaca. The bhagavan word. People may not mistake that Krsna is somebody else. And they want to banish Krsna from Bhagavad-gita. Even Gandhi did it. This is going on. So you explain Bhagavad-gita as it is there in Ahmedabad?

Yasomatinandana: Yes.

Prabhupada: They like it?

Yasomatinandana: Yes. Many young people are very attracted.

Prabhupada: Yes, when real thing will be presented, it will act.

Yasomatinandana: Many people frankly admit that they had a very vague idea of religion. It is not so...

Prabhupada: Not many; all of them. They do not know what is religion. Therefore there are so many rascal religionists. And Srimad-Bhagavatam begins, dharmah projjhita-kaitavo 'tra [SB 1.1.2]: all cheating type of religions kicked out from here. This is beginning. And Vrndavana dasa Thakura has translated,

Whatever is going on throughout the whole world as religion, Bhagavata is condemning them as simply cheating. Very clear translation. Cale and chale. Chale means cheating.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: Chal-kapat.

Prabhupada: Chal-kapat. So whatever is going on in the name of religion, simply cheating. Because religion means dharmam tu saksad bhagavat-pranitam [SB 6.3.19]. Religion means the laws given by God. That is religion. But they do not know who is God and what is the law. And God is coming personally, giving the laws: sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg 18.66]. They'll not take it. In the absence they'll say, "We have not seen God. We do not know who is God." And when He comes, they don't take. They are misguided by the leaders. Bhagavad-gita without Krsna. That's all. Take Bhagavad-gita, but don't touch Krsna. Untouchable. Take the egg and cut the throat of the chicken; it is expensive. Take only the hind part; you'll get the egg. And mouth is expensive, cut it. Ardha-kukkuti-nyaya . Very intelligent, that this part is expensive and this part is productive. Keep this part and cut. So as soon as in Bhagavad-gita we say you have to become devotee of Krsna-no, cut. That part, cut. And Krsna said, karmany evadhikaras te, and work like ass day and night. "Ah, yes, we'll do."

Yasomatinandana: That is the most favorite slogan of everybody.

Prabhupada: Yes. Because they're asses. Asses, they want... Even in Tehran, I saw the ass. This is Indian civilization. Loaded.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: With pots or something.

Prabhupada: Right. Some tons of things. The ass does not know why he is carrying so much load. Therefore mudha. What for he is carrying? What is his profit? He does not know. But he's carrying so much. "I am big industrialist. I have got so much business." What for you are doing industry? That he does not know. Ass. Karmis are described as asses. They do not know what is the interest.

Indian man (2): How does it matter what people call Krsna, whether they call Bhagavan or Visnu or what, Krsna? If it is just only one God. We are talking removing Krsna from Gita but putting Bhagavan there instead of Krsna. How does it matter?

Prabhupada: Krsna said, mattah parataram nanyat kincid asti dhananjaya [Bg 7.7]. "There is no more superior authority than Me."

These things are there. Iti te jnanam akhyatam guhyad guhyataram maya. Then explain. Vimrsya, this word is there. Vimrsyaitad, yathecchasi tatha kuru. Find out this verse, iti. These are strong words. Because we are misled by foolish leaders, we are confused. Otherwise everything's clear.

"Thus I have explained to you the most confidential of all knowledge. Deliberate on this fully, and then do what you wish to do."

Prabhupada: What you want more? It is up to you. He has explained everything-what is karma-yoga, what is jnana-yoga, what is dhyana-yoga, what is bhakti-yoga, what is the ultimate goal. Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam [Bg 18.66]. He has explained everything. Now it is up to you to think over it and do whatever you like. There is no force. You are at liberty. Your question has no standing. You have to decide, if you have got intelligence, to take up the instruction of Krsna and be happy. It is up to you. What was your question? What was your question?

Indian man (2): What was my question? I said how does it matter what name we give to Krsna, whether we call Him by Bhagavan or other names...?

Prabhupada: "Dog," "cat," whatever you like.

Indian man (2): No. As far as for God.

Prabhupada: No, no, as you say, "Whatever you like." You can call Him a dog, a cat. You can call.

Indian man (2): The names of Bhagavan only, I said.

Prabhupada: Do you know Bhagavan's name? You do not know Bhagavan. How do you know Bhagavan's name?

Indian man (2): It is interchangeably used, Krsna and Bhagavan.

Prabhupada: What is interchangeable? Here it says mam ekam. Where is interchangeable? Why you manufacture? Fertile brain. Don't make your brain fertile. That is going on, rascaldom. Interchangeable. Why interchangeable? Mam ekam. Ekam.

Kartikeya Mahadevia: Krsna is the only God. That's why there is no other alternative. Krsna is the God; there is no alternative.

Prabhupada: Yes. Krsna is... That is explained in the Srimad-Bhagavatam. Ete camsa-kalah pumsah krsnas tu bhagavan svayam [SB 1.3.28]. All incarnation of God is described, and the summary is given at the end that all these names, Rama, Nrsimha, Varaha, and so many, hundreds and thousands, so all of them are Krsna's plenary portion or portion of the plenary portion. Ete ca amsa-kalah. And this Krsna, tu bhagavan, He is the original. Ete camsa-kalah pumsah krsnas tu bhagavan svayam [SB 1.3.28]. It is clearly stated. And Krsna says in Bhagavad-gita, aham sarvasya prabhavah [Bg 10.8]. There are many incarnation of God-so many incarnations that you cannot count even. Just like it is said in the Srimad-Bhagavatam that like you cannot count the waves of the river, similarly you cannot count how many incarnations are there. But Bhagavata gives you the information that all these incarnations, innumerable incarnations, they are portions or part of the portions. But krsnas tu bhagavan svayam. And Krsna also confirms that mattah parataram nanyat [Bg 7.7]. Aham sarvasya prabhavah [Bg 10.8]:

"I am the origin." Mam ekam saranam vraja. What is the difficulty? But unfortunately you have got fertile brain. You manufacture things. And that is your misfortune. It is better to remain a fool before the acarya. Then he'll make progress. As Caitanya Mahaprabhu said, guru more murkha dekhi' karila sasana : "My guru saw Me a fool number one, and he has chastised Me." When Prakasananda Sarasvati asked Him that "You are a sannyasi, You are simply chanting," so He replied like that: guru more murkha dekhi' karila sasana. "My Guru Maharaja saw Me a fool number one. Therefore he has said, 'You simply chant Hare Krsna. You rascal, You cannot do anything.' So I am doing and this is the result." He represented Himself a representative of the fools and rascals. So kalau nasty eva nasty eva nasty eva gatir anyatha .

This is the only business, chant Hare Krsna. Then you gradually come to your original sense. Ceto-darpana-marjanam bhava-maha-davagni-nirvapanam [Cc Antya 20.12]. It is very easy thing. People will not take it. They want to see magic, they want to see jugglery, they want to hear all nonsense. This is the... If you talk nonsense, cheating them, they will like it. Sacca bole tomare lattha, jhutha jagat bhulay, dhanya kali-yuga duhkha lage haṅs pai. [If you tell the truth you get beaten and if you tell lies you are praised everywhere. Kali-yuga is wonderful because although I am very sorry, but at the same time I am laughing.] Krsna is speaking, but... Personally? That is not good. They'll go to some rascal who can talk jugglery and show magic. Who can show greater magic than Krsna? Who has done it? A seven-years-old boy lifting the mountain. "That is mythology." When Krsna shows something wonderful, that is mythology. Mythology..., Vyasadeva has written mythology. And big, big acaryas, Ramanujacarya and Madhvacarya, big, big, Caitanya Mahaprabhu, they have studied this mythology and given their comments. [break]

Another common sense is that there are hundreds and thousands and millions planets. There is no life-everywhere, rocks and sands-and everything is here? Here there are rocks and sands, and there are living entities, there are forests, there is greenness, everything. Variety. Why other planets without varieties? If somebody has created, why he's so dull that he has created everything here, and everywhere simply rocks and sands? And what business he had to do this? Rocks and sand? How he has misspent his valuable time for creating rocks and sand? And wherefrom the sand came? Scientifically, sand is there where there is sea, because sand is sodium silicate; it is manufactured from salt. So without water there is no question of sand. These things have to be considered. And rock is also combination of sand.

Indian man (2): In today's Times there is a news item. Very light, but it can be giving different sense.[?]

Prabhupada: What is that news?

Indian man (2): Somebody has given the prediction, I forget his name, but he says that in the next thirty years or so the human beings will discover some things on which gravity does not act.

Prabhupada: Something?

Yasomatinandana: Human beings will discover some things on which the law of gravity does not work.

Prabhupada: Law of gravity does not work now also. There is no question of this discovery. You take one small needle and you take one big log. The log will float and the needle will go down. The needle is so less weight, but it goes down. And the log is so heavy, it floats. Where is law of gravity?

Indian man (2): But that is, that is only relative. Both are being acted upon...

Prabhupada: Therefore relative. It is not absolute, law of gravity.

Indian man (2): The thing is, till now we are thinking that light is the fastest thing, and all our thinking was conditioned by that. At least in the scientific context.

Prabhupada: Scientific context... In Hawaii they cut all the coconuts because they are very scientist-law of gravity. But we don't care for this. We don't care. We are keeping the coconut on our head. We never think of law of gravity, that it will fall down. And those who are very much advanced in law of gravity, they have lost all the beauty of the trees, they have thrown the... They are afraid they will...

Indian man (2): Fall on the head.

Prabhupada: Yes. They will fall down. This is their gain of law of gravity. We have discussed this point. Why the green apple does not fall down? So this is their concoction. And why the other planets do not fall down, with so many rocks?

Kartikeya Mahadevia: Millions of rocks.

Prabhupada: Millions. They do not fall down. Where is the law of gravity acting? That means..., law means it is made by somebody. And the maker, if He likes, it will act; if He does not like, it will not act. Just like Lord Ramacandra, all the stones He threw over the sea and they began to float. Not that when He made that bridge with stones, they are solidified. No, they began to float. And all the monkeys went over them. So the lawmaker is Lord Ramacandra. If He likes, the stone will go down. If He doesn't like, it will float. The lawmaker is fact, not the law. Just like in the state law, today it is law, tomorrow it is no law. It depends on the lawmaker. [break] ...so there is the Govardhana Hill. What law acted there?

Kartikeya Mahadevia: Krsna's law.

Prabhupada: No, even these yogis, they can do that. Anima, laghima, mahima, prapti-siddhi. Asta-siddhi-yoga. By yogic process you can become so stout and strong that you can take a hill on your... Mahima. Aiye. You are leaving?

Kartikeya Mahadevia: I may come tomorrow.

Prabhupada: Accha.

Indian man (3): I had written to you, and I think Mr. Saurabha had forwarded my letter to you, to which I got a reply, and I was asked to come and meet you today. I just inquired to is it the right program of the right place where I can discuss. What I had in mind, or perhaps I should say have in mind, I have about thirty acres of land at Udaipur, in Rajasthan. I was trying to make a campus with studios, laboratories and residential places for these producers, stars, casts and things. When discussing with Mr. Saurabha I was amazed that some spare land which we had thought of utilizing for horticulture, we could better utilize it for cowherds to have, say, about hundred cows. I have been thinking, apart from this cowherd business, I have been thinking about this campus for some time back. And when I met Giriraja and we started getting more close together, association, I thought that why not should we have a temple of Lord Krsna as the center from where we start the activities?

Prabhupada: That's nice. We must have Krsna, that's a fact. What is the next proposal? We have got experience. Caitanya Mahaprabhu also introduced this dramatic play, but the play was performed by great devotees. So unless devotees are trained, this play will not be effective.

Indian man (3): Yes, I have discussed that also with Mr. Saurabha. [break]

Prabhupada: ...devotees who can spare time. First of all, all the devotees, they are also in the training, and if they have to learn another training, it may be very difficult.

Indian man (3): Sir, you would perhaps agree that towards... [break]

Prabhupada: That we are doing. Just like in New York we have got stage. So we are playing something from Caitanya-caritamrta, Bhagavata, occasionally.

Indian man (3): I saw drama on gita. I was in New York one month back Ramayana-gita. In the temple I saw the drama on gita. It was really very exciting. My two sons are there in New York, so I took them to the temple. So Your Divine Grace was at that time perhaps busy or something, that I couldn't have the darsana.

Prabhupada: When I was there you were also there?

Indian man (3): Yes, same day I was leaving for India. So I couldn't have your darsana, so I just got there. Giriraja, he told me... [break]

Prabhupada: So whatever they can, they... But a film project, it can be done, provided it is done in foreign countries. Here everything is expensive and lacking manpower.

[break] To make a film it requires huge amount of money.

Indian man (3): Money, perhaps we would be able to..., that problem we will be able to solve now, because initially for the project, not only making the film, the whole project of the campus, I have got the blueprint with me. When you are little better, I'll show the blueprint and I'll have your blessings that if I am able to achieve it. What I was thinking that a short film, say, about eight to ten thousand feet, which occupies an hour and twenty minutes or so, initially made. And dubbed into as many languages as can be done, because the sound portion is always separate. And as I was discussing to Mr. Saurabha, Giriraja... [break]

Prabhupada: The life of Krsna is known almost everyone. So...

Indian man (3): Yes. And also, sir, there are...

Prabhupada: What benefit they will get?

Indian man (3): ...numerous pictures also. What we have to educate the people... [break]

Prabhupada: ...by practice. We are training them to practice how to become devotees. By superficial seeing the activities of Krsna, this is not... One has to practice. Just like we are going to start gurukula. Gurukula means practice. Brahmacari guru-kule vasan dantah [SB 7.12.1], how to become self-controlled, danta. That is the... So our mission is to awaken the original consciousness, and that can be done by practice. Without practice, it is not possible. It is not by seeing some picture one becomes Krsna conscious. That is not possible.

Indian man (3): But, sir, do we not convey to a larger people...

Prabhupada: That is being done through books.

Indian man (3): But, sir, books are for such people who can read, who can understand.

Prabhupada: Yes, something can be done by showing the picture, but taking consideration of the labor and money invested in that way, the response will be not satisfactory. It is not possible.

Indian man (3): What I was thinking was that we have a limited...

Prabhupada: Simply by seeing that Krsna is lifting the Govardhana Hill, they'll..., many of them will laugh, that "This is all mythology. A boy is lifting Govardhana Hill." Many of them will laugh instead of taking seriously. Because unless one is devotee, he cannot understand what is Krsna. And as soon as he sees the boy Krsna is lifting Govardhana Hill-he does not understand what is Krsna-he'll laugh.

Indian man (3): That is elsewhere.

Prabhupada: Everywhere.

Indian man (3): No, sir, here...

Prabhupada: Here also.

Yasomatinandana: Mostly here.

[several Indians talking mixture of Hindi and English at once]

Indian man (4): Here most of the people are religious. Most of the people. Krsna! Yes, everywhere. Hare Krsna Hare Krsna. The feeling of religiousness is all [indistinct] my wife only goes for religious speeches. Whatever it may be. Maybe... [break]

Prabhupada: ...enter the Jagannatha temple, He immediately fainted. So, "Here is My Lord, Krsna." When the artist will see, "What He has seen? An odd figure, not very beautiful, and this man has fainted." Actually, there is nothing so extraordinary that one should be fainted, but we see practically that Caitanya Mahaprabhu fainted: "Here is My Lord." It is the question of vision. Premanjana-cchurita bhakti-vilocanena santah sadaiva hrdayesu vilokayanti [Bs 5.38]. One... [a tik-tik lizard makes his sound] There is confirmation. One who is trained up to see God, he can see. Otherwise... Premanjana-cchurita bhakti-vilocanena. Just like sometimes we cannot see properly if there is, what is called...?

Yasomatinandana: Cataract.

Prabhupada: No, no. That ointment.

Yasomatinandana: Kajal.

Prabhupada: Kajal we say. English, what do you say?

[indistinct suggestions of word]

Indian man: Surma.

That is not English word. [indistinct] something. So, bhagavat-prema... Premanjana-cchurita.

Vasughosa: Anjana, salve, salve.

Prabhupada: There is English proper word.

Vasughosa: Salve. "Tinge the eyes with the salve of love."

Prabhupada: Salve, yes. That is the word, salve. The salve of love. One who has painted the eyes with salve of love, he can see.

Indian man (3): But, sir, there will only be a few who can reach that stage, but the downtrodden...

Prabhupada: That's a fact,

You cannot make such person by showing film. It is not possible.

Indian man (3): Well, that I agree. It is not possible to make men devotees or religious by showing films. But at least those who cannot read our books, to whom individually we cannot reach in spite of our...

Prabhupada: But they know; they hear. They hear. There are different processes. They know krsna-lila. Just like in India the Janmastami is coming, I think cent per cent houses will observe Janmastami. There is no doubt about it. Either he's a devotee of Krsna or not. Even some Muhammadans are there. I know that.

Indian man (2): Yes, Parsis, Muhammadans, Bohras.

Prabhupada: They observe.

Indian man (2): They observe it.

Prabhupada: So to some extent they have got some affection for Krsna, but not to that extent. They..., there maybe one man may seeing Krsna's pastimes...

Yasomatinandana: I think generally people are more attracted to our Society by the behavior of devotees rather than philosophy, Krsna, Krsna's pastimes. Philosophy is there, but generally when they see the devotees, and by association, purification comes. As you say, there are so many books about... If the movie is made, just like our Hare Krsna People movie, this is showing the practical example of how one can live Krsna consciously and solve all the problems of the day-to-day life. Such a movie can attract people to become devotees.

Indian man (2): For the students it is good idea. For the students.

Yasomatinandana: For everyone. I mean...

Prabhupada: Those who cannot read the book, they are still better. Those who can read the book, they are still more dangerous.

Indian man (3): They will misinterpret the whole thing. Misinterpret it. They will misrepresent, misinterpret. The danger is still more there. It is rather more with the educated people that the danger is there than the uneducated. But to reach the uneducated we have, I was thinking this is a better media. This is one of the medias perhaps-I wouldn't say better-perhaps one of the medias by which we can reach them in a larger crowd.

Guest (2): But not in the way that the films are made.

Indian man (3): No, that is not say. I don't want. I could produce...

Prabhupada: That Krsna consciousness is developed when one practices according to the prescribed method:

These are the process, tapasya, brahmacaryena. So it is very difficult for the common man to undergo tapasya. Little tapasya we have introduced: no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no gambling, no intoxication. That is also become very difficult nowadays.

Indian man (3): But is it not possible that we go through name of Society for Krsna consciousness, and then they will be attracted more and more and they will...

Prabhupada: When you want to attract people, you have to show that you are [indistinct].

Indian man (3): There are good persons who...

Prabhupada: That good person is very, very rare. Please come. [break] ...education point of view.

Indian man (3): Yes, sir.

Prabhupada: Unless one is put into practice, it is not possible. That is Vedic culture. From the beginning of life students were sent to gurukula for practicing how to become brahmacari. That training is very important. Then they are trained as grhastha, then vanaprastha, and ultimately sannyasa, completely renounced. Immediately, a person cannot be renounced; therefore gradually, step by step. So unless there is proper training... Now just like we are selling millions copies of these books, they are reading, and how many of them coming forward? So it requires training. Training is the essential to make people Krsna conscious.

Indian man (3): I would rather request that you direct your efforts... [break]

Prabhupada: ...guru.

Indian man (3): Yes, sir.

Prabhupada: If even if one goes in the village without any dress, without any..., if he plays the part of Krsna's and somebody plays the part of Radharani, thousands of people will come. There is no need of film. Yatra-party.

Indian man (4): Yatra-party, sir, in the films we do those...

Prabhupada: No, I mean to say, that mass of people will come. As soon as they hear that here is some play going on, Krsna pastimes, still in India...

Indian man (3): It is there, sir, so what my submission was that what we do as film producers and in this line of business, that we do it more on commercial basis. Gimmicks are there, castings are there, but then it is not so much educative. What your Prabhupada wants to convey? If, as a member of...

Prabhupada: Education you cannot give. Education means it is practical practice. But to show something, that you can attract even without film. The yatra-party can do it.

Indian man (3): Yatra-party, sir, here again the problem is in this vast country-and for that purpose if you take the whole world as a place-how many yatra-parties can you...

Prabhupada: No, I mean to say, that even if you attract better crowd, what will be the benefits? Unless..., because unless you come to the point of practicing, there is no profit. Who will be attracted to practice Krsna consciousness? Nobody is... We are getting practical experience.

Yasomatinandana: In other words, just being attracted to philosophy is not sufficient. There has to be... Let them become a devotee. [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Now just like we are attempting-not only here, everywhere-we have got nice buildings, nice field, field of activities, [indistinct] and Bombay we have constructed such big, big house, so we are asking, at least those who are elderly people, that if they retire, come here and practice Krsna consciousness. No. Nobody's prepared to practice. And this is the thing: without practice you cannot realize.

Indian man (3): That is why, sir, without going outside.

Prabhupada: They...

Indian man (3): Whole thing if we make it...

Prabhupada: Just like... Practice is also not very difficult. Just like Krsna says, man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru [Bg 18.65]. So if you daily come to the temple, see the Deity, you'll have some impression and you can think of Krsna, how He is playing flute, how He is nicely dressed, how Radharani is standing by His side. Then man-mana, he can think of Krsna very easily. So man-mana bhava mad-bhakto, and as soon as you think of Krsna, you become a devotee. Because a businessman will not spare so much time thinking Krsna, how He is playing flute. He has no business. Without being bhakta, nobody will be interested to meditate upon Krsna, how He's standing, how He's playing flute. This is bhakta's business. So anyone who is sparing some trying to think of Krsna, that means automatically he becomes bhakta, man-mana bhava mad-bhakto. Mad-yaji: then naturally if he becomes bhakta, naturally, then why not offer to Krsna something? Eh? Naturally. He'll bring some fruits, some flower, some grains. Then Krsna is accepting them, patram puspam phalam toyam yo me bhaktya prayacchati [Bg 9.26]. So to think of Krsna, to become a devotee and to offer Him something, patram puspam, and offer Him obeisances, these things are development of Krsna consciousness. And the result is...

[aside:] Find out this verse, man-mana. Mam evaisyasi asamsayah [Bg 18.68], by simply executing these four principles, Krsna assures that you will come, asamsayah, without any doubt.

Indian man (4): Without samsaya.

Guests: [indistinct-all talking together]

Indian man (3): ...distorting the life of Krsna. Your Divine Grace, the film producers are distorting all our mythological...

Prabhupada: But as soon as you say "mythology," there is no Krsna.

Indian man (3): Don't say "mythology." I mean to say, my meaning was that they are distorting all our religious... They are making films, putting something, unusual things and very cheap things. If we can reform them, inform them, and bring this Krsna...

Prabhupada: No, unless they practice, it will not be to the art.

Indian man (3): You can bring the spiritual religion to the art.

Prabhupada: No, that you can use your art.

Indian man (3): Yes.

Prabhupada: Just to give some incentive. But the thing is unless we practice...

Indian man (3): That is the most important. Practice is of... That is the essence. Of course, that is the essence. But to bring to the essence something should be to bring people to the right path.

Prabhupada: It can be a part of the propaganda.

Indian man (3): Yes, because in India even this...

Prabhupada: But for that part of propaganda, the energy will be required, huge energy. Money, energy. If you can spare money and energy. Just like Krsna is lifting the hill-you'll show in the picture. You can inform also about that lifting by talking with him.

Indian man (3): No, that is... No, sir. What my suggestion was that we are conveying whatever is there in Bhagavad-gita, whatever, whatever one subject we take. While we are discussing the subject... After all, we are also all human beings...

Prabhupada: I have already said that you can take it as part.

Indian man (3): Same time we give some flashbacks, and in with purity. [break]

Prabhupada: ...see the film; don't smoke, no bidi.

Indian man (3): No, sir, in the cinema houses they don't smoke.

Prabhupada: No, that is another thing, but...

Indian man (3): Of course, by force it has been in...

Indian man (2): But even you can request also.

Indian man (3): We can do. I mean that is not a... Stage by stage. That stage can be reached, sir. They will feel that they will be ashamed to smoke when such a spiritual thing is being shown to them.

Indian man (2): Creating an atmosphere.

Indian man (3): Gradually it can... It is not a thing of a day. It will take years to come. We will have to go, and my point was that...

Prabhupada: But here there is no question of begin. You begin Hare Krsna and people will chant.

Indian man (2): In the midst of film you can some Hare Krsna kirtana.

Prabhupada: Immediately.

Indian man (3): But we are... Suppose I am getting, sir, as you said about money...

Prabhupada: Begins. Anyabhilasita-sunyam [Cc Madhya 19.167]. If there is any other motive, then immediately there is no bhakti.

Maybe little bhakti touch, but uttama-bhakti, the definition is anyabhilasita-sunyam [Cc Madhya 19.167]. So it is very difficult for the actors and actresses to give up the commercial livelihood. Anya..., that is anyabhilasa, that "By playing like this, I'll be popular, I'll get money." This is anyabhilas. So to make it zero is very difficult. Unless it is zero, there is no bhakti.

Indian man (2): No motivations.

Prabhupada: Ah. But everything can be dovetailed. Nirbandhah krsna-sambandhe yuktam vairagyam ucyate. Just like our Mrs. Sitarama, she wants to do some display to help Krsna movement. That is very good.

Indian man (2): She wanted to make the money.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Indian man (2): She wanted to make the money in this country. She would have been the richest artist in this country.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Indian man (2): But because she is dedicated, as you say, without any motivation and even...

Prabhupada: Money... Money-making isn't bad. If money comes...

Indian man (2): She has not commercialized...

Prabhupada: No, no, there is no commercialization. Krsna says that yad karosi yaj-juhosi yad asnasi yat tapasya kurusva tad mad-arpanam [Bg 9.27]. To earn money is not bad, but if it is given to Krsna then it is bhakti.

Indian man (2): That is...?

Prabhupada: Bhakti.

Indian man (2): That's what she has done.

Prabhupada: That is bhakti. Just like Arjuna, he was a soldier, but he fought for Krsna. That is a military art. For his personal, he refused: "No, no, I am not going to fight with my relatives." But when he understood that Krsna wants it, he did it. So anything, if we dovetail with Krsna's service, that becomes bhakti. Just like Krsna is saying, patram puspam phalam toyam yo me bhaktya prayacchati [Bg 9.26]: "Anyone who is offering in devotion a little leaf, little flower, little water, I accept." So Krsna is not poverty-stricken that He wants from me something, but He wants your bhakti, that you become a devotee, man-mana bhava mad-bhakto. He wants that. So if the poorest man also gives something in bhakti, Krsna accepts it. So that does not mean that "I have got money. Krsna is satisfied with little flower. So give little flower to Krsna and enjoy this money for my sense gratification." [chuckles] That is cheating. That is cheating. Krsna says, "Whatever you do," kurusva tad mad-arpanam, "give Me that," and that is bhakti. So whatever position we may be in, if our life is dedicated to Krsna, that is bhakti. That is bhakti. It doesn't matter what is his status, qualification. Krsna is unlimitedly everything. Just like we are spending lakhs and crores in this. What is the purpose? They may say that "Krsna is satisfied with patram puspam phalam toyam. Why you are spending so much money?" The idea is that when there is money, if you simply offer Krsna patram puspam toyam, that is cheating. Krsna knows it. If you have got money, then you must spend-a gorgeous temple for Krsna. That is proper utilization. Not the money is kept for my separate use, and Krsna may be offered a little leaf and water. According to one's position, he must worship Krsna.

So Bombay is so rich, therefore you are collecting. Spend for this temple. Spend for this temple. Otherwise it will be spent for other purposes. Money will be spent; it will not stay. San-nimitte varam tyago vinase niyate sati, money will not stay. At least, "At the time of my death money will remain where it is; I'll have to go on naked." So money, so long is in my hands, let it spend for Krsna. That is bhakti. We have to be separated. There is no excuse. So long it is in my possession, let it be spent for Krsna-that is bhakti. So whatever I know.... We are not of that philosophy, that "Don't touch money." No, not only touch; we can consume any amount of money. Bring it, and we spend for Krsna. That is our mission. We are not that so-called renouncer that as soon as there is money my face becomes deformed, my hands go this way. No, we capture immediately and spend it immediately for Krsna. Laksmi, Laksmi is to be engaged in the service of Narayana. Just like Sita-devi, Laksmi, she is meant for serving Narayana, Ramacandra. Ravana thought that "Take away the Laksmi from Rama." He became vanquished, finished. He could not keep Laksmi, but he became vanquished because she [he] wanted to enjoy Laksmi without Rama. But Laksmi cannot stay without Rama, Narayana. That is false attempt. So he became vanquished-with money, with family, everything, personal, everything. So if we want to keep Laksmi without Narayana, then it will not be very good. Laksmi keep with Narayana, Laksmi-Narayana. Then it will be... [end]