09--Conversation–1, 1970

Prabhupada: In 1957 he died a demon [indistinct].

Indian Guest: Yes from 1945 then his [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Where he was staying, with you? No.

Indian Guest: He was staying in this low-class village [indistinct] here. Then he used to deliver this questions that [indistinct]. He is a retired manager of the Bank of Indore, very pious and religious man.

[background noise: devotee chanting japa, kids playing, dogs barking in background, room echo]

What was the address of those Indian centers?

[break] [background noise]

Prabhupada: So what is your view?

Indian Guest: I not believe in any particular view [indistinct] [coughs] for example masks, it is broken, mending, this is [indistinct] [coughs]. But recently in our culture I have been studying Mahaprabhu and I'm intending to write [indistinct], that. The only book which I have got of the Sri Caitanya [indistinct] from Bombay. Gita I have [indistinct]. That is the only one then I have got completely Caitanya-caritamrta.

Prabhupada: Seen our Gita?

Indian Guest: Yes I received that thing.

[Pause] [indistinct] if Dinesh Gupta publishes paper [indistinct].

Prabhupada: [indistinct]. If you can suggest a good press. You can give us concession there. Then we can print.

Indian Guest: I think [indistinct] they are complete [indistinct] especially, then Maharsi Mahesh's book also is published by them. [indistinct].

Prabhupada: What Maharsi Mahesh teaches? You have a connection with him?

Indian Guest: No Swamiji. He is in completely in a state of peace. I have known him through his books only. I know the difference.

Prabhupada: No, not krsna-lila [indistinct]

Indian Guest: Not another but impressed by the way he teaches.

Prabhupada: What is that he teaches?

Indian Guest: Basically he gives the tantric approach.

Prabhupada: Tantric approach?

Indian Guest: Yes.

Prabhupada: What is that?

Indian Guest: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Eh?

Indian Guest: Sri vigrahaḥ

Prabhupada: And what is that Sri vigrahaḥ?

Indian Guest: There are a number.

Prabhupada: Ah. So what is the ultimate?

Indian Guest: They have to meditate on Sri vigrahaḥ. He initiated about 200 to 300 disciples in Indore. And [indistinct] so he said he had a son [indistinct] he has no interest in Hinduism. [indistinct] He and his wife, American wife they both got initiated by him. [indistinct] later on [indistinct] [laughs]

Prabhupada: That is everywhere. He gives the mantra and takes $35, that's all. And later on everything judged by it.

Indian Guest: He has that thing there is no doubt about it. [laughs]

Prabhupada: Cheating siddhi. He is a master of fools. That is applicable to cheating siddhi.

Indian Guest: As a man he is more charming than others.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Indian Guest: As a man he is more charming. He is not a good speaker. Not a good writer also.

Prabhupada: Charming. He said he is charming?

Hamsadūta: He said as a man he is charming. Mahesh yogi. [laughs]

Prabhupada: [indistinct] Do you think he is charming?

Hamsadūta: No.

Prabhupada: He has no good features. Big beard, I think horribly charming! Is he very charming?

Hamsadūta: Not at all.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Hamsadūta: [indistinct] frightening.

Prabhupada: Frightening yes. What do you think Revatinandana?

Revatinandana: Sudama Maharaja told me he met him in Vrndavana. He said he met him in Vrndavana. And Maharishi was telling him that he should go to America because [indistinct]

Prabhupada: So what is Sagar Maharaja offering?

Revatinandana: Sagar Maharaja. I can't remember what he said but he left he ran away [indistinct]

Prabhupada: What is his position in America now?

Hamsadūta: He is very unpopular. He has become very unpopular.

Revatinandana: He still has some following but they are not intelligent men and mostly [indistinct]

Hamsadūta: In Germany he was very popular.

Prabhupada: Hm?

Hamsadūta: In Germany he was very popular but a lot of the boys that used to go to, they came to our camp.

Prabhupada: In Hamburg?

Hamsadūta: Yes.

Indian Guest: [indistinct].

Prabhupada: [indistinct] Some men are inclined there on your behalf.

Indian Guest: Yes, yes there is one man.

Prabhupada: Only one man.

Indian Guest: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: One man is looking after.

Indian Guest: Yes one man is looking after.

Prabhupada: The Deities?

Indian Guest: Pardon.

Prabhupada: The Radha-Govinda Deities.

Indian Guest: Yes.

Prabhupada: So who takes care for this seva-pūja.

Indian Guest: Yes.

Prabhupada: He takes?

Indian Guest: Yes.

Devotee: [indistinct].

Prabhupada: What money you have to send him?

Indian Guest: We sent him now some 100 rupees per week.

Prabhupada: For maintenance.

Indian Guest: [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Eh?

Indian Guest: [indistinct] cheaper.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Guest: Swamiji I would like to go for a walk [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Yes you can go. Hare Krsna. What is his philosophy?

Hamsadūta: This boy.

Prabhupada: This boy.

Hamsadūta: He doesn't really have one. He said he has been to India for a year and seen so many guru's and he's been confused. He is anxious to come to the point.

Prabhupada: The conclusion is given and still he is confused.

Hamsadūta: [indistinct] he says that [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Yes. Certainly if he's sincerely in search after something good he'll find.

Hamsadūta: Yes.

Prabhupada: [indistinct] [background noise].

[Break] ... philosophers, prominent men, leaders. How do they believe that Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead? Then where is their standing? On the basic principles they are misguided. Then where is their standing?

Indian Guest: That your are right.

Indian Guest 2: [indistinct] and all that, sort of determined.

Prabhupada: Just see.

Indian Guest: [indistinct].

Prabhupada: [laughs]. They take it that Aurobindo is far, far greater than Krsna.

Indian Guest: That is. And so also Ramakrishna Mission.

Indian Guest 2: [indistinct].

Indian Guest: That it is a complex issue. [indistinct] lila avatara in which Rama and Krsna both are merged and that is Ramakrishna.

Prabhupada: So where is the proof?

Indian Guest: Well that is what they say...

[Break]

Prabhupada: That is the point. We find mistake. All by your too much sinful activities you become a ghost. The sraddha ceremony observed by the son's can give him another body. That is pinda. Putra-pinda prayojanaḥ. So that ceremony is also not observed.

Hamsadūta: Yes. [indistinct]

Prabhupada: So father begets children they're like cats and dogs and he becomes a ghost and these cats and dogs cannot help him. You see? There are so many subtle laws, so these rascals, leaders they do not know. Andha yathandhair upaniyamanas [SB 7.5.31].

They have become leaders, they themselves are blind, they have no knowledge and they are leading others blindly. Therefore the present situation, not only now it is now in greater number. And volume is very great. Least that is the way of material body. Anyone who has come to material world the illusion is that he has forgotten his relationship with Krsna. Krsna bhuliya jiva bhoga vancha kare [Prema-vivarta 6.2]. They have forgotten, Krsna is the enjoyer, we are enjoyed. Krsna is predominator we are predominated this fact they have forgotten. And artificially they want to be predominator. That's all. They have. They have forgotten this fact that I cannot be predominator. I am always predominated. And that is my real position. So that forgetfulness is the cause of material tribulation.

[Aside:] Did you hear this?

Indian Guest 2: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: One must be comfortably situated before discussing spiritual matters. That is the injunction. If one is disturbed in his mind then he cannot make any progress. Just like yesterday the governor was speaking that America is materially happy. Therefore for them bhakti-yoga is fine. [break]

[Aside:] Did you, hear this?

Indian Guest: Here karma-yoga is the standard.

Prabhupada: You see! [laughs].

Indian Guest 2: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: And for India karma-yoga is. And he doesn't know anything [laughs]. He should not have bothered himself with this subject. So that this is necessary for here. . And he has become authority.

Guest: It is after eight.

Prabhupada: Therefore I criticized this. Unauthorised speeches. And that is what he wants. Because he is governor.

[Aside:] Devananda you can take rest. You can take rest. Other room.

Devotee: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Other room. You cannot do that, that is not good.

Devotee: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: You cannot doze in the midsts of so many people. If you doze like, it is not good.

Devotee: Yes. I know that.

Prabhupada: Yes. That's it.

So karma-yoga and bhakti-yoga it is stated in the Bhagavad-gita that only foolish persons make distinction. In the fifth chapter you'll find it, statement. That karma-yoga, bhakti-yoga, jnana-yoga. Actually the fact is to approach God. The yoga this word, this term is used-yoga. Only for the purpose that either to execute karma or either you execute jnana or either you execute bhakti or this hatha-yoga. The ultimate goal is Krsna. Therefore this very word is added-yoga. Yoga means, "To connect," connect with the Supreme. So if you are habituated, you are very much habituated for fruitive activities. So connect it with Krsna. If you are very much fond of philosophising then that also connect with Krsna. If you want to execute this hatha-yoga pranayama system, astahga-yoga it is called; actually called astahga-yoga. Yama, niyama, asana, pranayama ityadi. Regulated life, following the rules and regulations very strictly, the sitting postures, breathing exercises etc. That also connects with Krsna. Therefore Krsna says:

"Out of all kinds of yogis the first-class yogi is he who is always thinking of Me within himself." And thereby executing devotional service he is first-class yogi. These things are there in the Bhagavad-gita and karma, karma-vikarma that is also explained. Not that these our government is executing karma-yoga by slaughtering 10,000 cows daily. Rascals. They do not know what is karma-yoga and they want to pass on as karma-yogis, these politicians by committing the greatest amount of sinful activities. That's speaking of karma-yoga. Eh? Devil citing scriptures. They do not know, that as soon as I began to recite from the scriptures he wanted to go away. I am a real economy in knowledge this is our position. We are in a very precarious position not only in India in every places. Just like last night, some hippies came here. They are from Germany, you saw?

Devotee: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: All over the world they are producing. They have revolted against the standard social system. So in Europe and America where technology is very prominent our people are now trying to imitate them, technology. And but they do not see the other side, the most advanced technology country is producing now hippies. Frustration. They do not see to them. So for the last three days we have been discussing that naraka-hell. In the Srimad-Bhagavatam fifth canto there is description of different hellish planets there are planets [coughs]... which are known as hell. So Pariksit Maharaja after hearing about the hellish condition of the living entities [coughs]. Enquired from Sukadeva Gosvami, what is the actual remedy to save these persons from hellish condition of life. Now in this planet also the cities they are creating hellish condition, hellish condition.

So that was the question the, how to save them from this hellish condition of life? So the reply was, prayascitta, prayascitta means, "Atonement". So he gave the example just like a contaminated, diseased person has to take shelter of the physician and the medicine to cure the disease. Similarly one has to take shelter of this Vedic rituals prayascitta-atonement. That is prescribed in every religious scripture Hindu, Muslim, Christian. Just like the Christians they have got atonement-confession. Similarly we have got so many types of atonement giving the cow in charity and many other rituals-prayascitta. So Pariksit Maharaja is intelligent audience therefore he enquired from Sukadeva Gosvami that, "I do not find any remedy out of this performances of prayascitta. It cannot help." And actually it is so, suppose I make some atonement all my reaction of sinful activities now nullified or adjusted and again if I commit the same sinful activity. Then suppose I. I have made undergone the atonement, next again I commit the same sinful activities and I could not undergo the atonement and if I die then I am going to hell. Therefore this atonement process cannot help me. Just like a person diseased, our. What is your name? [Laughs]

Guest: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Shah?

Guest: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Mr. Shah is representative of a medical here, a chemical farm.

Because people are diseased so the atonement [laughs], to pay for the medicine, to pay for the physician, this is going on. But people are not desisting themselves. Ah. Competition. A man is suffering from venereal disease and he is given by the doctor injection and medicine he is cured but again he does it, the same thing. Again he becomes a victim of the disease. That is going on.

So Pariksit Maharaja he says that if a man, a man or everyone. He knows that this kind of sinful activity will produce trouble for me and he has seen also and still he is committing. Just like a thief he knows that if I commit theft I shall be. Under law I shall be put into prison and he has heard also from the pleaders, from lawyers or from other men that stealing is not good. If somebody is caught by the police he will be punished. He knows he has heard it and he has seen it also that a man who has stolen he is arrested and he is taken to the police custody. So in spite of his hearing, these are two nice experiences by seeing and by hearing. So in spite of two kinds of experiences he commits sinful activity. Therefore he says these atonement is no use it cannot save him. This is the question, very intelligent question.

Then Sukadeva Gosvami says, "This kind of prescribed atonement is actually no relief. Actual relief is knowledge." [coughs]. Just like a man is committing theft out of ignorance or lack of knowledge. Therefore his real atonement is to come to the standard of knowledge, Pariksit Maharaja, eh Sukadeva Gosvami says:

His suffering is due to his ignorance. He should be sensible. Therefore to bring him to the senses, the real prayascitta, jnana, vimarsanam. He should be enlightened, so he should be considerate that I am suffering, I am paying so much bill to the doctor and I am undergoing the trouble of accepting injection and operation and after being cured a still I am committing. So what is the reason, if he thinks like that, if he comes to the point of thinking like that-that is knowledge. That is knowledge. So the knowledge platform, the jnani platform. The karmis they are acting: punaḥ punas carvita-carvananam [SB 7.5.30].

They are engaged in fruitive activities, suppose in this life I make some business, I become very rich man and next life again I get my birth. So these riches and this education is finished with this body. You have to again go to school and learn and take education if we at all get human form of body. Otherwise that is also not possible. So the jnani's position is that I want to live eternally and why should I change continually this body after this body. Therefore the jnanis out of millions of karmis one jnani is supposed to be good. Because thinking. What is the problem of life, jnani's they are philosophising what is the actual problem of life. Why I am put into this tribulation, why I am changing this body? When one comes to this consideration he is called jnani.

So similarly these people who are suffering they also if they come to the point of considering that why I should act like that if I am suffering that is the jnani's position. Vimarsanam. So Pariksit. Sukadeva Gosvami says that actually karma-nirharaḥ, I have acted something sinful and I act another just like I have taken some excess of food and I am now suffering from dysentery or something and so I take another thing, medicine. But the jnanis that, "Why shall I take excess of food and why shall I try to interact by medicine?" That is knowledge. And this is ignorance, let me go on taking food and let me go on taking medicine. [Laughs]. This is ignorance. The real knowledge is that if my taking of excess food I am suffering then I am taking medicine again so how to stop it? So therefore it is called vimarsanam...

Sukadeva Gosvami says that this is not actual cure that I contaminate myself by my ignorance activities and again counteract it by some other action. This is not good. The real good is or the real prayascitta is to come to the standard of knowledge. Then he says:

Those who are annam, the foodstuff mita-bhuk, they take food, I mean to say just as required, not more not less. [Cc Madhya 22.80] For them a disease cannot, I mean to say trouble them. Actually all our diseases are produced for violating the rules. Of health food for hygienic rules. Actually our all diseases are produced for violating the rules, or health rules or hygienic rules. Actually those who are following the hygienic rules and regulations they cannot be victim of the disease. That's a fact. And this is one of the hygienic rules to take bath early in the morning and to attend temple worship. This is also hygienic it is not only spiritually good it is materially good also.

So Sukadeva Gosvami says, "If one follows the regulative principles then one cannot be victim of the sinful reaction as much as if one takes his food in a regulative way disease cannot trouble him."

Our Hindu principle, this rise early in the morning, go to the temple, attend mahgala-aratrika, and then hear something from the scripture, then begin your work and regulative work according to one's occupation. The brahmanas, the ksatriyas, the vaisyas, these are nitya-naimittika: eternal activities and periodical activities. But we have lost all these things, now after rising from the bed immediately bed-tea. Immediately. Without washing mouth, why? Without cleansing the teeth, without. And immediately we require tea. And uncleansed teeth we take tea and all the germs go within the stomach and they create trouble and then I go to doctor and he gives me so many medicines.

So therefore he is recommending that in order to be very pure one has to follow the regulative principles. The regulative principles are described here cit tapasa. Tapasa means determination. One has to work with determination. That in this life I shall make my life successful or in this life I shall finish the business of accepting or repeating again birth and death, birth and death. So for that purpose tapasa, tapasa or austerities are required for that purpose. When Maharaja Dasaratha met Visvamitra Muni. Visvamitra Muni came to Maharaja Dasaratha to take his sons Rama and Laksmana for killing that demon. What is that demon's name?

Mataji: Taḍaka.

Prabhupada: Taḍaka? Taḍaka raks...?

Devotee: Taḍaka.

Mataji: Taḍaka.

Prabhupada: Taḍaka Raksasi, so at that time Pariksit. Yes, Dasaratha Maharaja inquired from Visvamitra. Just like when we meet friends we ask, "How are you, your business is going on nice?" According to social situation, similarly Dasaratha Maharaja inquired from Visvamitra the austerities which are, which are undertaken for conquering rebirth. Punar janma jayaya, this very word was used, aihistam yat tam punar janma jayaya [Ramayana].

So you are desirous of conquering over the repetition of birth and death so your that process, whether it is going on nicely? So this was the king's duty to see that the sages in the forest they are. How the Vaisnavas or the sannyasis they are engaged for conquering over the repetition of birth and death. It is the king's duty to see that whether they are prosecuting their business nicely. But there is no such thing nowadays. So this is [indistinct] [coughing].

So therefore but one has to undergo austerities if one wants to come to the platform of knowledge instead of being carried away by this ignorance without following the rules and regulation one has to come to this point tapasa, tapasa means, "Determination". That in this life I must make myself successful in conquering over the repetition. But people do not know that why the repetition of birth and death. Hm. They are not educated about these things, about spirit soul. How the spirit soul is migrating from one body to another and there are 8,400,000 different types of body and one has to undergo through all these bodies before coming to the human form of body. There is no school, there is no college, there is no education, simply it is ignorance. Simply ignorance. And they are talking of high sounding [indistinct], high sounding words, karma-yoga and this yoga.

There is no programme how to educate people, how to make the citizens happy and it is the duty of the king, of the government to see that citizens are making progress. Why the former Kings were so respected? When Maharaja Yudhisthira, when the Pariksit Maharaja born and the astrologer was speaking of Maharaja Pariksit to his grandfather Yudhisthira. That Yudhisthira enquired first of all let me know whether this child will be a I mean to say a proper King just act to our dynasty. Whether, that means whether he will be prajaraksaka whether he will be very much attached to the welfare activities of his praja. That was the duty of the king, now these politicians they are busy for keeping their party prestige. How to become Minister and where is the time to think for the welfare activities of the citizens. They are simply busy how to keep our office how to keep our prestige. This is very precarious condition.

Anyway we have to take care of ourselves as it is said here that tapasa. If you actually want to come to the platform of knowledge knowing things as they are then we have to take austerities-tapasa. Brahmacaryena, brahmacarya means restricting sex life. Either completely-celibacy, or to be satisfied with only one man or one woman, that is called brahmacarya. So tapasa brahmacaryena samena [SB 6.1.13], samena means to keep the mind in equilibrium not to be disturbed by the outward happenings. [coughs]

Samena and damena means controlling the senses, outward senses. This is called dama. So this tapasa, tapasa brahmacarya, sama dama, then tyagena. Tyagena, if you have got enough money then don't keep it for your sense gratification just give in charity for good purpose that is called tyaga. Tyaga does not mean that I give up my family life and become a mendicant that is not tyaga. Tyaga means what you have got in possession you should not accept it you should distribute that is called tyaga. Not that all the monies I keep for my children or my wife in a bank and then I take sannyasa and I beg from door to door [laughs]. No, no that is not tyaga, real tyaga is that whatever you possess you must distribute it, that is tyaga. Just like Rūpa Gosvami. Rūpa Gosvami was Prime Minister so he had enough money when he returned back home for retirement. He brought with him a full boat of golden coins. So just you imagine what was the value, a full boat, big boat and golden coins. So he divided his property and possessions 50% for Krsna and balance 50%, 25% to his family and the balance 25% he kept in reserve for his personal emergency. So tyaga is also required. Tyagena and satya-saucabhyam, truthfulness and cleanliness. Yamena niyamena va, if we follow these principles, austerities then sama dama, controlling the senses, controlling the mind and giving in charity and become truthful and hygienic. In this way if we follow the regulative principles then it will be possible to come to the standard of knowledge.

So to become wise man a man of knowledge or jnani it's not that I am thinking that I have become Narayana. All these daridras they have also become Narayana because God is there within. Therefore my knowledge is now perfect. I have become Narayana and all the poor men loitering in the street they have become Narayana. This is not knowledge-this is not knowledge. Real knowledge is attained when you undergo this process. Otherwise it is not possible that is ignorance. [break]

So you can chant little Hare Krsna.

Devotee: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Perpetually. They remain perpetually. But so long they appear they utilize the time properly. That is the difference between condition soul and liberated. Everyone remains perpetual. But nitya-siddha those who are perfect they utilize the time for Krsna and those who are not perfect they utilize the time for nothing, in illusion, maya. It does not matter whether one remains for one year or 1 million years. It is a question of how he utilises his time, actually. Sahkaracarya he passed away at the age of 32 years. Caitanya Mahaprabhu left at the age of 48 years. It is not that they remain here 32 years or 48 years but we have to see how they acted. And the duration of life, a tree stands for 5000 years. And what is the use of it? Remaining for 5,000 years. Better remain for a moment but do something which will help you in your spiritual life. That is required. Not that because I remain for a very long time I become very perfect. Then the trees are more perfect [laughs] because they live for 5,000 years. People are trying to prolong life to become immortal.

The Russian scientists say that by advancement of science we shall become immortal. Eh? And remain important, yourself immortal and kill all the cows to remain immortal. This nonsense is going on. You want to remain immortal but others, no. Kill them. For by remaining immortal these poor animals must be killed-this is the way. Why he should not remain immortal? He is also living creature. That is due to want of Krsna consciousness. I want to remain immortal and not others. Not others. Why you should remain immortal? As you have got right to become immortal everyone has got the right to become immortal. Why should you infringe on the others life? They do not come to participate with your foodstuffs. These animals they remain in the jungle and the grass grown in the field that is sufficient food for them. They do not come to share your nice plate, cooked in nice, nicely. So he is also got sufficient why should you interfere with his living condition? And they are civilized. No sense even. And karma-yoga, speaking of karma-yoga [laughs]. You see? And as soon as you tell them the truth they will drive away. Here.

So there is no need of living for many days that is not a very good qualification. The days for which you live utilize it for spiritual advancement and that is real life. Is that clear?

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupada: Kirtir yasya sa jivati, one who has become kirtir means, "One who has become spiritually advanced." [Canakya Panḍita] One who is known as great, greatest spiritual personality. He lives for forever, always, kirtir yasya sa jivati. Sa jivati means, "He is living, he is not dead." Like Sukadeva Gosvami. Do you think he is dead?

Devotee: No.

Prabhupada: He is living, he is living by his instructions. Otherwise why you are reading the instruction of Sukadeva Gosvami? He is living, Krsna is living, the book is there Bhagavad-gita. So you leave behind such knowledge you live forever-that's all. And so far the body is concerned, antavanta ime deha, it has got a duration of time it will end. Maybe after 10 years, maybe after 100 years, or maybe after millions of years. That is the nature of this material world

But the sariri, the soul he is nitya, eternally living that is in the Bhagavad-gita you will find.

So if you become spiritually advanced that is real civilized. Otherwise it is already dead and simply undergoing the process of another need. The body is already lead. So what is the use of decorating the dead body? Eh?

If there is a dead body, now so long living body we offer a nice cushion, sit down be comfortable and who is going to offer a cushion to the dead body? So long living means, not with knowledge with sense and the best sense is how to utilize it for Krsna consciousness. That is real. Otherwise all are dead. Anyone who is not in Krsna consciousness is to be considered as dead. Because he is pulling on the body, the dead body that's all. Decorating the dead body:

So this Krsna consciousness movement is very important movement. It is not a bluff, it is authorised. So everyone should join this movement for the real welfare of the human society. This is a culture which is actually meant for welfare of the whole human society. And it is greatly needed at the present moment. You do not be waylaid simply by jugglery of words. Actually what is fact of life you should learn from Bhagavad-gita. In the very beginning of Bhagavad-gita Krsna says:

So dehantara-praptir: change of body, it is going on. So when there is ultimate change and another body. No sane man is disturbed in that way. So we are trying to save this body in so many ways by eating nicely by so many other ways. Eating, sleeping, mating, these are the necessities of the body. Ahara, nidra, bhaya, maithuna. [Hitopadesa 25]

But Krsna says in the Bhagavad-gita: dehantara-praptir dhiras tatra na muhyati. Nobody cares for this change of this body. Nobody means those who are learned-those who are learned. In the beginning He says when Arjuna put before Him so many problems that, "If I kill my brothers their wives will be widowed and they will be polluted and there will be unwanted children," and so many, so many problems. This social problems as we think generally and he put before Krsna and Krsna answered. His learned thinking that:

He was talking like a very learned man but you're fool number one. That was his first slap. Because he accepted to become disciple. Disciple means he must accept the rulings of the master. That is disciple. So Arjuna when he was talking as friend, He never chastised him, just talked very mildly. But as soon as he accepted discipleship He first of all gave him slap.

You are talking just like a very learned man but you're fool number one. How? Because:

One who is learned he doesn't talk very much of this body either it is dead or alive. Hm. This is the first, I mean: nanusocanti panḍitaḥ, panḍitaḥ means, "Learned man". They do not talk much about this body either dead or living. So our present position is you're talking too much of this body. Although it will not live, it will not exist. But the thing which is existing and will continue to exist -you have no talk. Krsna says that, "Myself, yourself and all these kings and soldiers who are before us they were existing, they are existing and they will continue to exist. So what is that? You needn't talk of this body." And that is real education so we have to take care how it will exist in the future and that is the prerogative of human life what kind of existence I am going to have in my next life? Either cat or dog; or a demigod; or a Brahma; or a worm in the stool; or with Krsna; or Narayana? This things have to be considered. What will be my next life? Nobody is taking education on this fact. Is there any Department of Education? How to get the next life. They do not believe in the next life. So much ignorance... dehatma-buddhi, they think that I am this body. That is condemned, yasyatma-buddhiḥ kunape tri-dhatuke [SB 10.84.13]. Anyone who is accepting this bag of kapha, pitta, vayu, as self is a rascal. He is a fool-sa eva gokharaḥ: he is just like cow and ass.

So the first education of spiritual life, is that. First educational system-dehatma-buddhi. People are being taught simply to take care of this body without any care for the soul. Or they do not know what is the soul. This ignorance is there. Therefore our request to every thinking man, every sober man to understand this Krsna consciousness movement and push it on. As far as possible according to one's power then there will be good service to the human society. Otherwise they are in ignorance.

Tikaya? [Laughs] Do you like all these ideas? [Transl. What do you say?] What is your views?

Indian guest: No freedom.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Indian guest: No freedom.

Prabhupada: No freedom [break]...

Either some chemical farm or from government office or somebody, you have to serve. Therefore we should know where our service will be perfect. That is Krsna's service. That is perfection. Service you have to render. If you don't render service to Krsna then you will have to serve so many others. You cannot avoid service because you are meant for such purpose. Your original constitution is to serve, Caitanya Mahaprabhu says: jivera svarūpa haya nitya-krsna-dasa [Cc Madhya 20.108].

A living entity is perpetually he is meant for serving Krsna. So we are instead of serving Krsna we are serving maya and within this maya you want to become liberated by becoming Krsna. That is another service. The Mayavadi's they whenever they become disgusted with the service of this world they want to be the supreme master, "I shall become God." But that is not possible. The real relief is to serve God. Not to become God. That you cannot, that is impossible that is another maya-another maya. That is last snare of maya, maya is deluding us in so many ways and at the end she deludes that, "Why you are thinking in so many ways, you are God yourself. There is no sin for you, whatever you do it is alright." This is another, what is called? Instigation of maya. To become more a great fool, you see? So that is not real relief, real relief is to engage oneself in the service of the Lord however minute it may be, however. Whatever it may be.

"Even a slight service to the Lord can save you from the greatest danger." That we are discussing we can come to that point in this chapter. [End]