08--Conversation with Viśvaretha & Viśāla, Summer 1972, Los Angeles

Prabhupada: Love of God. Prema pum-artho mahan [Caitanya-manjusa].

We consider love of God is the highest achievement in our movement. And that we are preaching. And so far harmony, even we are innocently preaching God consciousness, there are so many enemies which disturb us. Eh? You are disturbed by some of these people?

Visala: Oh, all the time. The demons, all the time. On Hollywood Boulevard, your divine grace, I was there this morning and there was so many demoniac elements. If they had God consciousness they would be.. I could be happy. But this, this.. So demoniac, so vicious. People are just, so, just unhappy. No one's happy. Nobody is happy in this world.

Prabhupada: So they will disturb us for 10 minutes. We are preaching love of God but still now we have got enemies. So this world is like that. It is very difficult to bring in harmony but if we make people God conscious. Lover of God, then there will be happy, happiness. But not all of them can be lover of God, that is not possible. But if a few percentage of the people become lover of God then there will be great benefit in every respect of this movement.

[Door opens and closes]

Devotee (1): Your bath Srila Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: That's all right.

[Pause] There is love of God in everyone, everyone's heart. There is love of God.

[Door opens and closes]

By process it can be awakened. Because we are all part and parcel of God there is eternal relationship. It is now forgotten. But it can be awakened. This is our plan. So we do not make any sectarian propaganda. Whatever sect you may belong, we want to see you...

[Door opens and closes]

...that you are lover of God. We have got our loving propensity, we love our country, we love our society, we love our fellow men. At least we love some dog. That loving propensity is there but it is being misplaced. Therefore we are not happy. The loving propensity should be used for God. Then everything will be... Partial love will not help us. Just like here is a plant. If you put water on the leaf, it will not help. There are millions of leafs in the tree. If you go on putting water, on each leaf. It will take so much time but still it will be incomplete. But if you put... Pour water on the root it will be distributed everywhere. This is our philosophy. So somebody is loving his family, his wife, his children. Somebody is loving community, somebody is having sex, somebody is having a religion, his nation. But all these are partial. When one loves God this loving propensity will automatically fulfilled. So we are teaching people how to love God. This is Krsna consciousness. You have heard something about our movement?

Guest: Oh, yes I am very familiar with it.

Prabhupada: How?

Guest: I've been using your products for some time now. For about four years. I've had the largest vegetarian restaurant in the, the country for four years now and I just went broke now.

Atreya Rsi: He had the vegetarian restaurant.

Prabhupada: Ah.

Atreya Rsi: And he had been using our products in the restaurant.

Prabhupada: Oh!

Atreya Rsi: And he has been by the government. It has been some tax liability, debt. Which he did not have the funds to give. So they had to close. Close up the restaurant. It is now closed. It was a big.

Prabhupada: Why the tax was not paid? Why?

Guest: Because it was. When business fell off the money was used to continue to pay employees rather than paying the government.

[Door opens and closes]

Prabhupada: Come on! Come on. Ah! Just see! [Laughter] [child talking] Hare Krishna.

Child: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Thank you very much. Come on.

Devotee (1): [Laughs]

Prabhupada: Come here. [Sound of something being unwrapped]

Child: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Do you like this?

Devotees: [Laugh]

Devotee (1): He was coming up the stairs and we asked him where he was going. He said, "I'm going up to see Srila Prabhupada and the Deities."

Prabhupada: He's a nice boy.

Devotee (2): Very nice Swamiji.

Child: Hmm.

Prabhupada: It is nice?

[mic tapping]

Oh, he was alone coming?

Devotee (1): Yes he was just walking up the stairs. [Laughter]

Prabhupada: Very good. Very nice.

Devotee (2): All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: Just see he has learned to how offer obeisances. Fall flat.

Devotee (1): So many of the children... One little boy now all of the Īsopanisad mantras.

Prabhupada: Hm!

Devotee (1): He knows also all of the prayers to the spiritual master. He goes, "om pūrnam," like that and chants all the mantras. So nice.

Prabhupada: You know mantra? You know some mantra?

Devotee (1): Do you know any songs?

Prabhupada: Can you chant?

Child: Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama, Hare Rama.

Prabhupada: Oh, thank you very much. Hare Krsna. Hm, very good. You are very nice. Anything more?

Child: Uh!

Prabhupada: Anything more?

Child: Yes. Bhaja, sri-krsna-caitanya prabhu nityananda, sri-advaita gadadhara srivasadi-gaura-bhakta-vrnda.

Prabhupada: Ah!

Devotees: [Laughter]

Prabhupada: Your so nice. Thank you very much. He's remembering, he knows something more.

Child:

Prabhupada: Aaah!

Devotees: [Laughter]

Prabhupada: Hare Krishna. Be blessed! [Laughs] You are so nice. Very nice. You come every day I shall give you prasadam.

Child: Om pūrnam adaḥ pūrnam idam.

Prabhupada: That's nice.

Child: Om pūrnam idam [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Hm.

Child: Om pūrnam adaḥ pūrnam idam.

Prabhupada: Pūrnat pūrnam udacyate

Child: Om pūrnam adaḥ pūrnam idam.

Prabhupada: That's nice. So these children are learning mantras, dancing, offering obeisances. We have got a school in Dallas, all small children. They are being trained up in Krsna consciousness. You can dance? Please dance, let me see.

Child: [Sings maha-mantra along with devotee]

Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. What is your name?

Child: Bhakta. [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Bhakta?

Devotee (1): Visvaretha.

Child: Visvaretha.

Devotee (1): Visvaretha is the father's name.

Prabhupada: Ah.

Devotee (1): Bhakta, what is your name?

Prabhupada: Ah. You are so beautiful.

Child: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Eh?

Child: I'm three.

Devotee (1): He's three years old.

Prabhupada: Three years old? You will be 100 years old.

Child: Huh?

Prabhupada: You will be 100 years old.

Child: Yeah... Somebody has to make me a bead bag. I like to have some beads.

Prabhupada: You want?

Child: My mommy has to make me a bead bag and some beads.

Prabhupada: Oh, where is that?

Child: Huh?

Prabhupada: Where is that bead bag?

Child: Because somebody ripped up my bead bag.

Atreya Rsi: [Laughs] somebody took his bead bag. And mommy is making one. [break]

Child: [indistinct]

[traffic noise]

Prabhupada: Thank you. Be 100 years old.

Devotees: [Laughter]

Prabhupada: Just see. How being trained up.

Devotee (1): They rise every morning, and they run all over the neighbourhood.

Prabhupada: Ah.

Devotee (1): They pick the flowers and, come and throw them on the vyasasana and bow down and pay their obeisances. So nice. Chanting and dancing in front of the Deities. So nice. They are fortunate.

Prabhupada: Very intelligent, only three years old... purva-janma [from previous life].

Yoga-bhrastaḥ. In his past life, he was a yogi. Therefore he has got this opportunity. From the very birth, he is God conscious. Krsna conscious. Now if his parents take care then in this life he becomes successful. Back to home back to Godhead. This is the duty of the parents, of the state, of the guru. To help him.

Visala: Your Divine Grace, if I may ask a question? You said at one time that we've all had association with Lord Caitanya. And then another time you said that we, our coming to Krsna consciousness was no pious activity of our own. But it was due to our good fortune coming across. Coming in contact with a pure devotee. Could you help me understand that? That we had association with Lord Caitanya in our previous lives. And what kind of association have we had with Gauranga.

Prabhupada: I said we have association with Lord Caitanya? I don't think I said like this.

Visala: Didn't you say that?

Devotee (2): Are you sure?

Devotee (1): So many times it's said Srila Prabhupada said we are all eternal associates of Lord Caitanya.

Devotees: [Laughter]

Devotee (2): I want at least two or three dozen things. [indistinct] people ask me, "I've heard that Srila Prabhupada said like this".

Atreya Rsi: Prabhupada is the spiritual master.

Prabhupada: Hm?

Atreya Rsi: Our propensities [indistinct].

Prabhupada: No. Generally those who are associates of Caitanya Mahaprabhu. They may also come. To help this movement. That is also not illegal to think. Caitanya Mahaprabhu's associates, means their businesses is to preach Krsna consciousness. So by the order of the Caitanya Mahaprabhu, they may come. By the order of Krsna, by the order of Caitanya Mahaprabhu they come. Just like all these members of the Yadu dynasty they came to assist Krsna. They came from heavenly planets. Demigods. Sometime to propagate Caitanya Mahaprabhu's mission the devotees come. Just like Panca-tattva, Srivasa Thakura is incarnation of Narada. Sri-krsna-caitanya prabhu nityananda sri-advaita gadadhara srivasa. Srivasa is incarnation of Narada. So to assist Caitanya Mahaprabhu's movement Narada came. And Brahma came as Haridasa Thakura.

Visala: Brahma came as Haridasa Thakura?

Prabhupada: Yes. His name is Brahma Haridasa. Similarly Ramananda Raya. There is a list of names. Gaura-ganoddesa-dipika. [Sri Kavi-Karnapūra] So all the associates of Caitanya Mahaprabhu are described. Who is who.

Visala: [indistinct] devotees is Arjuna.

Prabhupada: Hm.

Visala: Is Arjuna. And Gadadhara is Radharani? And Advaita is Maha-Visnu?

Prabhupada: Hm.

Visala: And Srivasa is Narada Muni.

Prabhupada: Hm.

Visala: And Lord Caitanya is Krsna. Bhagavan Sri Krsna. Sarva-drk-the overseer. [SB 10.88.5] A long time ago, Your Divine Grace, a devotee was saying that some of your disciples, such as Visnujana Maharaja, Gargamuni Maharaja and Brahmananda Maharaja, we're all came to aid in Lord Caitanya's movement. So this is not true. Or is it?

Prabhupada: Yes certainly.

Visala: Is it true?

Prabhupada: Everyone is helping. You also.

Devotee (1): Very fine.

Visala: Most fallen... [Laughter] Most foolish... We are your greatest fools.

[Pause, 19:56-20:50 Minutes]

Your Divine Grace. I have a personal question to ask you. Should I ask you to it... Should I ask you personally or would you prefer me to ask you now? What would be proper? The proper time.

Prabhupada: What is that question?

Visala: Well it was about getting... I was thinking very seriously about getting married. I'm having a very hard time as brahmacari. And I've been thinking, you know, very seriously about trying, trying grhastha life. In this time of life.

Prabhupada: Why?

Visala: Well I've been having a very difficult time as brahmacari. I haven't been... Actually I haven't been very happy as brahmacari. And I need some inspiration and I seem to feel that maybe by making a change. Maybe?

Prabhupada: This is maya. It is the dictation of maya. You'll not be happy to be married. If you marry then you will be unhappy. Now it is up to your choice.

Visala: The thing is…

Prabhupada: Whatever it may be. If you marry you will be unhappy.

Visala: I have to sort of, get it out of my system.

Prabhupada: That's all right.

Visala: One way or another…

Prabhupada: Whatever you like, you can do. But I say... If you want to consult me. I will say if you marry you will be unhappy.

Visala: If I. If I do get married...

Prabhupada: Eh?

Visala: If I do get married, first will I still have you good blessings?

Prabhupada: Well, my blessings are not to taking. I say don't marry.

Devotees: [Laughter]

Prabhupada: You don't make me responsible. When you become unhappy, you don't make me responsible. I say that if you marry you will be unhappy.

Visala: I believe you. [Laughs] of course I believe you. But I know that Narada…

Prabhupada: Now if you want to become unhappy you can marry.

Visala: This seems like. I know that reading Prahlada Maharaja. Prahlada listened to his spiritual master and he received the experience in his guru. You know, rather than to try to experience for himself. Unhappiness.

Prabhupada: So if you don't take the experience of your guru? Then what can be done? If you don't take the experience of your guru.

Visala: It's like, one he could finish... One he could get so to experience everything before completely renouncing material life. You know, just getting everything out of your system once and for all. I think that if I was maybe 45. I wouldn't care so much about grhastha life. But I am a relatively young age...

Prabhupada: So you do it. Why you're asking my permission? I say that if you marry you will be unhappy. Now it is up to you to make your decision.

Visala: I don't want you angry at me.

Prabhupada: Huh? There is no anger. I say what is the fact.

Visala: Do you think... You think that if I am very sincere and very, very serious I can advance spiritually if I do get married? If I follow the principles...

Prabhupada: You cannot. You may be sincere, but other party may not be sincere.

Visala: What if I make the party sincere? [Laughs]

Prabhupada: So you can argue in your favor...

Visala: I'm not trying to argue, I'm pleased I'm. I just...

Prabhupada: Now I've given my verdict. Now you make your choice. And don't make me responsible.

Visala: Oh, of course not.

Prabhupada: You, you ask my consultation. I gave you my verdict. Now it is up to you. I would recommend you to become a sannyasi.

Visala: Do you think I'm strong enough to be a sannyasi?

Prabhupada: All right if you are not strong, then be strong.

Visala: With your blessings maybe you will make me a maharathi.

Prabhupada: [Makes choking sound] Uh?

Visala: Just like Bhima. Jarasandha and Aniruddha...

Prabhupada: I say if you follow my instructions then you'll be a maharathi. If you don't follow my instruction. How you can be maharathi?

Visala: So by following your instructions, you will make me a maharathi?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Visala: [Laughs]

Atreya Rsi: You'll become everything [indistinct] anything.

Devotee (2): [indistinct] [pause]

Visala: I want to become fully Krsna conscious. That's what I want. But it is some. Maya is very strong [Laughs]… Maya's [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Maya is strong so long if you are weak in Krsna consciousness.

Devotee (2): Yes.

Prabhupada: Just like infection is there when the body is susceptibility is weak. If there is some infectious disease, one is attacked with that disease. Otherwise not. That means one is weak in his susceptibility, he is attacked. Similarly maya is there. One who is not sufficiently powerful, he is attacked by maya. And one who's powerful he is not... [Pause]

One who is completely surrendered to Krsna. He is not affected with maya.

Visala: I was reading in the Sri Brahma-samhita your divine grace when I was in. When I was in Mayapura, Sri Mayapura and Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati said to achieve love of God. One should be absorbed in the cit potency of the Lord and to be willing to serve the Lord. Then one can achieve love of God. So the point is always thinking of Krsna, always speaking about Krsna, always hearing about Krsna. Always looking at pictures of Krsna. Using the nose to smell nice flowers to Krsna. Eating krsna-prasadam. One-maya cannot attack.

Prabhupada: Hm?

Visala: Maya cannot attack. Is that right? If we are always absorbed in Krsna.

Devotee (2): We're actually so foolish. We see that is so nice. Then we will see something that we think is nice and we will continue to think about that. Like a pretty girl or a nice scene or something like that. We see that when we talk about Krsna, when we read Srimad-Bhagavatam and when we attend arti and listen to the lecturers that is so nice. Then the mind will bring in this other object and it is so hard. To get it out.

Prabhupada: The best thing is that you take sannyasa and preach. That is Vaisnava. If you're... If you think at the very present moment you are not very strong. Then you may wait for some time. And my advice is that you become a sannyasi and preach.

Visala: [indistinct] want to go and?

Prabhupada: Eh?

Visala: Is there a particular place you would want me to go? Or just like Narada Muni go everywhere? [Laughs]

Prabhupada: Yes. Place every place is God's place. So wherever you go you can preach. We... We do not take it this is America, this is India, this is Germany. We take everything belongs to God, Krsna. We do not makes this demarcation. This is foolish man's demarcation. Just like this America land. It was not formerly belonging to the present people. It was stay... planked there. Similarly everything is God's. Now we have made this demarcation. It is mine, it is mine. Aham mameti [SB 5.5.8]. And that is our illusion. We are claiming the property of God, as ours. This is maya. And one who understands that this is Krsna's property, God's property. He is out of maya.

Visala: I understand that and it is very simple and easy to understand. It is also easy to understand that we are not... That we are spirit soul. We are not this body. At least I say, my hand, my nose, my eyes, my head. I don't say, I nose…

Prabhupada: No.

Visala: I am not the nose. I am not the hands. I am not the legs. So under the I, the whole material world is under the I and my. False conception of life. Living under this illusion. I and my. Think false proprietorship and false identity.

Prabhupada: No this is I-I am God's. That is real I. I am Krsna's. But everything belongs to Krsna, so I also belong to Krsna. Therefore I am Krsna's. I am God's. That is my real I. But they are making, "I am God." These foolish rascal people they are making, "I am God." He hesitates to speak, "I am God's."

Devotee (2): Unfortunate.

Visala: The I is there.

Prabhupada: The I is there, that is I must be there because I am law-abiding to people. I am. I am something. [Clears throat] but the difficulty is that he is misidentifying that I am God. Actually his position, I am God's. I am not God but I am God's. Although there is no difference between God's and God.

Devotee (2): [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Yes. There is no difference. Just like my finger, in my body, whole body. There is no difference I can say this finger also my body. But the explanation is more clear, when I say that, "my finger." Part and parcel. Similarly Krsna said mamaivamso jiva-bhūta [Bg 15.7]. All the living entities they are my part and parcel. The part and parcel is not different from the whole. The same. If I cut here, my body-there will be blood and if I cut here-there will be blood. So in that sense there is no difference between this finger and the whole body. But a still the finger is not the whole body. This is acintya-bhedabheda. Simultaneously one and different inconceivably.

Visala: What is tat tvam asi [Chandogya Upanisad 6.8.7] Your Divine Grace. Many of the impersonalists they use tat tvam asi. Thou are God or something like that. I'm not familiar with that.

Prabhupada: Just like if I say that, "You are also American. So the president is American. You're also." So tat tvam asi is like that. You're of the same stock. The president he is also American and you are also American. If I say you are also American. That does not mean, that you are also president.

Visala: Ah. Yes.

Prabhupada: That is foolishness. The fools take it like that. Oh, I am American, therefore I am president. This is fools conclusion.

Visala: I see. [indistinct]

Prabhupada: You've got every right to say, I am as American as the president. That's nice, that's... That is your identification. Similarly tat tvam asi-you are the same; means you are the same quality. Or you in the same category. If you are God then how you have become dog? How you have become under the clutches of maya? Therefore you may be god, just like you may be American but you're not the supreme American.

The supreme American is the president. You cannot say, that you are... Because you are American therefore you are president. This is not proper, right conclusion. Tat tvam asi; so 'ham. They are miscalculated the rascal's. They do not know. Or they mislead people. Just like if you go to India, if you say I am American. Therefore I am President Nixon. People will laugh. What nonsense it is.

Atreya Rsi: Some foolish people will believe.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Atreya Rsi: Some foolish people.

Prabhupada: Foolish people maybe believe, that is no. That is not business even. The intelligent people will say, "If you are president where is your credential?" Apart from president, ambassadors go. So they have to present their credential. So these rascals they do not know what is God. They accept anyone God. All that glitters is not gold.

Visala: Why do they accept everyone?

Prabhupada: Because they are rascals.

Visala: Because they are rascals.

Prabhupada: Rascal. They do not know. Suppose you do not know what is real gold. I can give you, something glittering like gold. Just like our karatalas it looks like gold-if you make it shiny. Polished. And if I give you, "This is gold." And if you do not know what is gold then you accept it. One who knows what is gold, he'll not accept it. So similarly one who knows God he will not accept a rascal as God. He knows what is God, therefore we are teaching what is God.

Suppose if somebody comes, "I am God." So I am a lay man, I have heard about Krsna. So I will generally, naturally ask, "What you have done? For God. Our God Krsna, lifted Govardhan Hill at seven years old. Oh what you have done?" And if he proves that, "Yes I can do also, Krsna lifted Govardhan Hill at seven years old. I am now 50 years old. I can lift the whole world." "Then do it, show me, then accept it."

These are example. God must do something uncommon. The God's definition is there, He must be the richest, He must be the wisest, He must be the most famous, He must be most beautiful. So we have to test, are you richest than everyone? Ask him. If he claims to be God. Are you richest than everyone in this world? If he proves that, yes. He is richest than anyone. Then you can accept as God. Are you the most beautiful? If he proves yes, you can accept. Are you the wisest? There are so many tests. Why should we accept a rascal as God?

Atreya Rsi: Prabhupada, every time we go against the will of God, we are rascal [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Yes.

Atreya Rsi: That is the definition of rascal.

Prabhupada: He.. He is going more and more, to the hell. One who defies God he is going to hell.

Atreya Rsi: And actually in today's world we are all rascals.

Prabhupada: Yes. Because all rascals therefore this preaching required. Make them intelligent. Therefore I say become sannyasi and preach. That is real service. To become another rascal is no credit. You have seen so many people are married and they have become rascal. Why you are going to become another rascal?

Visala: I don't want to become another rascal.

Prabhupada: Then you must be.

Devotee (1): Then don't get married.

Prabhupada: As soon as you marry you shall be another rascal.

Visala: [Laughs]

Devotee (2): You know how much trouble you're having with yourself now? Don't add somebody else's troubles to your's.

Prabhupada: Yes. That is rascaldom now you're free. Your moving freely.

Devotee (3): [indistinct]

Prabhupada: And without thinking why you have become, you purchase an anxiety. "Oh, how my wife is there." And if she does not like you, divorce you. Then another anxiety.

Visala: What if I? I'm not. I'm not using this as an excuse but I just have to get this out of my system. But what if I asked her, "My dear friend I want.. I want to.. I want it to be agreed that if I.. If we don't.. If this doesn't work I want to be able to take sannyasa." And if she agrees with that. Or do they usually change their minds?

Prabhupada: That means you're talking like a rascal. You are. You want to make an experiment with rascaldom. That is your proposition.

Visala: But don't we have nice grhastha's in the movement?

Prabhupada: You cannot have, that I say. You cannot have.

Devotee (2): They are all nice until you marry them.

Atreya Rsi: Now you have the qualification of a sannyasi but to get married, finished.

Devotee (2): One life is difficult enough, two lives is extremely.

Prabhupada: No, two lives is also… there are many married men. But nowadays the time is not very good. Better to tolerate the onslaught of maya. Maya is tossing you, to get yourself in married, get yourself in married. This is the tossing of maya. Better tolerate.

Visala: You said that maya is always attacking mind and body.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Visala: Just. Just don't, just keep going. Don't let that bother you just keep going.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Atreya Rsi: Be engaged.

Prabhupada: So it is better to tolerate than to become under her clutches. You are freely moving, is that not very nice life?

Visala: Oh yes.

Prabhupada: You have no responsibility for children, for wife, for home. Nothing. You are simply thinking of Krsna and moving. That is very nice acknowledgment. You never mind.

Atreya Rsi: Big Maha-buddhi.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Atreya Rsi: Big Maha-buddhi, it is the best distributor. Book distributor.

Devotee (2): That's one problem, the best distributor's. The people who distribute the most books they get all the Deities prasadam. It is so rich it agitates sex desire. So because he wins every day. [Laughter] So because he's winning all the time.

Prabhupada: So you sacrifice that.

Devotee (1): Okay

Prabhupada: You bring that prasadam to me.

Devotees: [Laughter]

Prabhupada: I shall eat.

Visala: I would be glad to. But the prasadam, the way they are cooking the prasadam these days it wouldn't. I don't know if you would be satisfied [Laughs].

Prabhupada: No you bring to me I shall take.

Devotees: [Laughter]

Visala: Last night at 10 'oclock, I saw [indistinct] with a huge plate, it was so huge. So much subji, rice, dal...

Prabhupada: No krsna-prasadam you can eat but don't eat more than necessary.

Visala: I wonder just [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Yes.

Visala: Brahmacaris so much prasadam.

Prabhupada: No, no. Brahmacari's should not. He may be given so much but he should not eat so much.

Visala: Especially [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Because I have been given so much. Just like you give me so much. So what I require I take, that's all.

Devotee (1): We haven't yet learned to control our senses so well. And eating [break]

Prabhupada: [Microphone disturbed] Don't do that. If there is nice prasadam, keep it for taking tomorrow morning. Distribute amongst friends. Nidrahara-vihara-vijitau [Saḍ-gosvamy-astaka 6]. The more you'll forget eating and sleeping and mating. The more you will advance in Krsna consciousness. This is the process. It requires four things. Bodily necessities: eating, sleeping, mating and defend. So far defending is concerned? Krsna will protect you. Unless Krsna protects you, you cannot save yourself by the utmost defense. And if Krsna saves you even there is utmost danger, you'll be saved. This is defect so far eating, sleeping and sex-that should be reduced to nil. This is vairagya. Vairagya means, just like Raghunatha dasa Gosvami he was eating every alternate day a little butter. That's all.

And he was very rich man's son. He was practised to very comfortable life but when he became a vairagi, renounced order, he was eating a little butter. Not daily, every alternate day. And he was not only chanting keeping a numerical strength. He was offering obeisances, just like this child offered danḍavats. Danḍavats means just like rod. That was also with numerical strength. So many times I shall offer my danḍavats. And so many times I shall chant with beads. And I shall eat a little butter every alternate day. At Radhakunḍa he was doing this. You have seen Radhakunḍa, no?

Visala: Oh, yes.

Prabhupada: That is Raghunatha Dasa Gosvami's place.

Visala: Oh.

Prabhupada: And when he left home his father had 1200 thousands of rupees income. 1200 thousands. And he was married with a very beautiful wife. A very rich family. And 500 years ago 1200 thousands of rupees income, now it is at least 50 times more. 500 years the purchasing power of money is decreasing.

Visala: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: So he was such a rich man's son. And he reduced his necessities of life in such a way. So it depends on practice.

Visala: So you don't feel that, that some men would. It would help some men in this age we are so fallen. That if some of your disciples...

Prabhupada: But, this age is fallen but the process is also simple.

Visala: Hm.

Prabhupada: Dhruva Maharaja went to the forest, he lived by simply drinking air.

Visala: Air.

Prabhupada: First of all fruits, then water, then dry leaves and then simply air. He practised like that. Five years old boy. And to go to the forest means to accept these austerities.

Atreya Rsi: Prabhupada, are your instructions to the individuals-for the individuals.

Prabhupada: No our... Our instruction is that we are so weak we cannot imitate all this. That is a nonsense proposal.

Atreya Rsi: Yes but if you give me instruction I should take it for me. And you can give him a different instruction but that's for...

Prabhupada: No our. Our this instruction. These are the ideas but we cannot imitate. That is not possible in this age. Therefore yuktahara-viharasya [Bg 6.17]. Whatever possible. Now in our temples we are taking krsna-prasadam and advising that don't take more than you require. That's all. Because it is a little palatable so I shall chew up to this. Then that is nonsense. You can take, it will not do harm because it is krsna-prasadam but it is not good. That is atyahara, to eat more than what you need, that's not good. If you are getting the best prasadam you can take whatever actually you need. And balance you can distribute. To others. The temple command is giving you reward, you take this but you distribute your reward.

Visala: Yes, Your Divine Grace. Discrimination [Laughs]. The human form of life is meant to discriminate. [Chiming in the background]. So the instructions of the spiritual master with God are for everyone, universal. For everyone. I just don't want to take for one person but for all of us. But, when Lord Krsna came and he married 16,000 wives...

Prabhupada: On the whole we are not ruining our health but keeping our health fit. We shall try to reduce our eating. This is wanted. Similarly sleeping. If you reduce your eating then you will reduce your sleeping. Because our time is very short we do not know when I shall die. Therefore my business should be how to finish Krsna consciousness business very quickly. So that I may not have to take again another birth to finish it.

Visala: How about Prahlada Maharaja's line? Because he says, "My dear Lord I do not care how many times I come back. All I want is..."

Prabhupada: You are not Prahlada Maharaja.

Visala: Yes.

Prabhupada: He may not care but you have to take care.

Visala: Thank you I see. But the pure devotees they don't care, they all they want to do is to serve the Lord. They don't care about any...

Prabhupada: You cannot compare with Prahlada Maharaja.

Visala: Already done that.

Prabhupada: You can take instruction from Prahlada Maharaja but don't try to imitate.

Devotee (2): [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Yes.

Devotee (2): It's not consulting you [indistinct].

Prabhupada: I don't know [?] why shall we do that? That is our real self-interest. What we are taking other things as self-interest that is maya. That is not our self-interest. Here in this material world we are taking self-interest means greatest amount of sense gratification. That is not actually self-interest. If youcut your throat and if you say, "It is my self-interest." That is not self-interest.

Similarly to understand God and to go back to Him, back to Godhead, back to home. That is our real self-interest. And if you are thrown in this wilderness of maya, illusion. That is not our self-interest but we have taken this is our self-interest. Sense gratification. Just like Visala prabhu is proposing marriage is his self-interest.

Visala: [Laughs] I am foolish. Eh?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Visala: My...

Prabhupada: That is not your self-interest.

Visala: Not my self-interest. So when I tell you I'm your greatest fool, your divine grace. That I'm speaking the truth [Laughs].

Prabhupada: That's all.

Devotees: [Laughter]

Prabhupada: To become truthful even one is greatest fool. That is a good quality. Satyam, samaḥ, damaḥ [truthful, peaceful, self control] that is brahminical qualification. [Bg 18.42] So you have got so many qualification you utilize it for Krsna. Why you should utilize it for maya?

Visala: [indistinct] use it to pay obeisances. It's just that sometimes life becomes uncomfortable and you want to make excuses. So you go, "Well I think I will try this, you know maybe I'll feel better."

Devotee (2): The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

Visala: But when I was in India I was anxious to go to India but when I was in India I was anxious to leave and come here. Now I may just be good [Laughs].

Prabhupada: Now you have travelled all over the world. You have been in Africa, in Europe.

Visala: London.

Prabhupada: And in India.

Visala: I request you to make me fully Krsna conscious. Fully Krsna conscious. You promised me in Africa you would. I asked you, "I desire to be fully Krsna conscious." Remember when we were in Mombasa? And there was very wealthy people's home. You called me in and you... I was preaching to the black Africans and you seemed to be pleased and Syamasundara said Prabhupada wants to see you. And I went in there and you told me, "I saw you preaching in the act. You should keep preaching to the, you know." And I told you and you said, "Okay." I'll be fully Krsna conscious. I can't wait I'm getting your passion![?] [Laughs]

Prabhupada: No. You can preach you have got good preaching tendency. So you preach.

Visala: You really have to make me Krsna conscious. Tell Krsna please! I'm dying like King Yudhisthira. It was Mucukunda he says, "My dear Lord I've been exploiting all these lands for so many births and deaths trying to be Lord and I'm tired of suffering. Please I surrender to your lotus feet." So I am requesting you. I'm getting tired of suffering. Please tell Krsna I am tired of suffering. [Laughs] I'm very serious I want to become fully Krsna conscious as soon as possible. So then... So then maya will not be dictating to me nonsense... Everybody is suffering out there.

Prabhupada: Who has brought it?

Devotee (2): Vyasatirtha.

Prabhupada: From Bombay?

Devotee (2): No he got it from one man in Beverly Hills or somewhere. Some man who had many books on Vedanta. Some scholarly type man. He said he could not give him a donation. But he said wait one minute. He went downstairs and brought it up and gave it to him.

Visala: Also I read in the Bhagavad-gita. It says that when the Lord is pleased with you, He will reveal Himself. So there is no doubt He is not very pleased with me. There is no doubt He knows my nonsense activities and thinking.

Prabhupada: Don't say like that. He is not pleased with you. You could not please Him. That should be the task. I could not please Krsna. That is the term. Don't say that Krsna is not pleased upon me. That the, my... The responsibility goes to Krsna.

Visala: I see.

Prabhupada: But you should take the responsibility. I could not please Krsna. Therefore He is not pleased. [indistinct]

Visala: What about I could not please you? What about thinking in terms of I can never please the spiritual master. That is on equal level.

Prabhupada: Anyway either the spiritual master or Krsna. We should take the responsibility.

Visala: I see.

Prabhupada: Don't accuse that He is not pleased with me. No. You could not please Him.

Visala: I understand. You've always said, "Do not try to see God but if God is, ...try to act in such a nice way that God will want to come and see you."

Prabhupada: Yes as soon as He is pleased He will come and see you.

Visala: I should go out and distribute your causeless mercy. Please accept my humble and worthless obeisances. I am most grateful, appreciative [?].

[Offering of obeisances, Srila Prabhupada Pranati]

All glories to parampara. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: Jaya.

[Door opens and closes] [microphone stand is being adjusted]

Devotee (1): Srila Prabhupada would you like to be [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Nothing. At night also. I'm feeling better in fact. Man dies not out of starvation-by eating. I've seen a man die [laughs] by excessive eating.

Devotee (3): Second largest killer of man on the planet.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Devotee (3): Second largest killer of man, is over-eating.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Devotee (3): First is drinking.

Atreya Rsi: Anxiety.

Devotee (3): Which overeating is to.

Atreya Rsi: Tension, anxiety is the first killer. Some scientific study and second killer is too much eating. Anxiety means attachment.

Prabhupada: Anxiety means sense gratification. If you want to gratify your senses, if it is not fulfilled then you become anxious. By-product. And if you have no plan for sense gratification you're satisfied in every condition of life. There is no anxiety.

Devotee (3): Everything is already restrained.

Prabhupada: Anxiety is also described by Narottama dasa Thakura: visaya-visanale, diba-nisi hiya jvale [hari hari biphale].

This is anxiety, visaya-visanale-the blazing fire of sense gratification. That is burning my heart. Oh. And those who are after sense gratification they are full of anxiety.

Take, take for example we have got 160 men in this temple and find out a man with six men in family. How much he is anxious. How to maintain this family. How to get money. How to make them happy. But we have got 160 men. We have no fixed-up income but we are not in anxiety. We are not [indistinct]. None of us. Because we know Krsna, whatever Krsna will do that's all right. So Krsna never keeps us any day, a single day starving. We are here for the last four years, we have no such experience that we will starve any day for want of food. So anxiety is so long, as long as we are after sense gratification but as soon as you take shelter of Krsna and simply engage in His service there is no anxiety.

There is a small child he has good faith in his father. He is free of anxiety, he doesn't care. Some, sometime in 19 hundred... 40 about 32 years ago my youngest son he was at that time like three years old or less than, a small child. So in the Calcutta there is tram-car. So he was sitting by me the conductor came. So the conductor out of curiosity, [a small child]. "Give me your ticket please?" So he said, [laughs] "Oh, I have no money. I cannot pay." Then he asked, "Then please get down." "Ah, my father is there. My father is there. You cannot ask as me to get down." It is natural. He could not pay. He frankly said, "I have no money." And when he jokingly asked him, "Then please get down." He said, "No you cannot ask me, my father is there."

This is difference. Avasya raksibe krsna'-visvasa, palana [Saranagati, Song 1. Text 3] Cc. Madhya 20.135, purport]-surrender means Krsna will protect me in every sense. This is surrender, let me engage fully in Krsna's service. That's all. Another angle. My only business is to serve Krsna, that's all. That makes him free of anxiety.

Atreya Rsi: Prabhupada, could you tell us about transcendental anxiety?

Prabhupada: Eh?

Atreya Rsi: Transcendental anxiety? [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Transcendental anxiety-that is love. That is love. That is improvement. Viraha. [separation] Just like Caitanya Mahaprabhu, he was crying, "Oh, I could not see Krsna." Jump over to sea, you see? This is increasing love of Krsna. This is different. The same thing, as we are increasing love of sense gratification. Proportionately if we increase love for Krsna then our life is successful. The same thing transferred for Krsna.

Devotee (1): So we are feeling anxieties because we are not thinking of Krsna? Not depending on Krsna for everything?

Prabhupada: Not fully surrendered to Krsna.

Devotee (1): Is there such a thing, Srila Prabhupada as a favorable. As an unfavorable circumstance? Unfavorable. Unfavorable position in Krsna consciousness? As far as one's activities.

Prabhupada: In Krsna consciousness there is nothing unfavorable.

Atreya Rsi: Everything is favorable.

Prabhupada: Unfavorable in this. And favorable. What is favorable for advancing in Krsna consciousness that we shall accept. What is unfavorable for advancing in Krsna consciousness, that we shall reject. Just like chanting our 16 rounds. This is favorable-we should accept. The rules and regulations, alright, this is favorable. So we should accept the favorable things and reject the unfavorable. Unfavorable-to sleep more, to eat more. These are unfavorable. We should reject it. And chanting 16 rounds, observing the rules and... This is favorable. In this way we have to mold our life. Reject unfavorable, accept favorable. Then it is perfect...

More? That's alright.

Atreya Rsi: Jaya.

Devotees: [Devotees offer obeisances] [End]