Room Conversation with Govinda dāsī and Gaurasundara – July 2, 1971, Los Angeles

710702R1-Los Angeles [43:28 Minutes]

Somehow or other they are chanting Hare Krsna

Prabhupada: The fighting must be there, but that does not mean separation. I fought with my wife all along, yes, but there is no question of separation. I have…, I have since made provision for my wife. [indistinct] So one must be responsible. Marriage is not a joke.

Govinda dasi: In this country it is such a joke that it is hard for them to understand.

Prabhupada: Yes.

[break]... Of marriage, there must be some struggle, but the marriage is required. They have introduced new [indistinct].

Govinda dasi: We have never had a single marriage in Hawaii.

Prabhupada: Huh?

Govinda dasi: We have never had a single marriage in Hawaii, although we have been here two and a half years.

Prabhupada: Why?

Govinda dasi: I guess because… [laughs] I don't know. No one wants to get married. Because it's a serious thing; it is not taken lightly. [break]

Prabhupada: Why did not [indistinct]? [break]

Gaurasundara: Fourth of July, Independence Day weekend, so...

Prabhupada: Independence Day you are free?

Gaurasundara: No. But there's so much traveling that it becomes too...

Prabhupada: Crowded.

Gaurasundara: Yes. So perhaps we will wait.

Govinda dasi: 'Til Monday.

Gaurasundara: Until Monday.

Prabhupada: There is very much crowd?

Gaurasundara: Pretty much.

Prabhupada: People are coming or going?

Gaurasundara: Coming and going.

Prabhupada: Everywhere this Independence Day will be observed?

Gaurasundara: Yes.

Govinda dasi: In the United States.

Prabhupada: Huh?

Govinda dasi: It is American Independence.

Prabhupada: But it is observed in New York especially, no everywhere?

Gaurasundara: Not particularly. In Hawaii they are shooting off firecrackers all night. Everywhere, everybody is throwing firecrackers.

Govinda dasi: It sounds like a war, and it smells like gun smoke.

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Govinda dasi: It sounds like a war…

Prabhupada: Hmm.

Govinda dasi: …in Hawaii. It is so bad, firecrackers going all the time, it sounds just like a war. And you smell the powder, gunpowder.

Prabhupada: Everywhere?

Govinda dasi: No, especially in Hawaii.

Prabhupada: Hawaii was included when America declared independence?

Gaurasundara: Oh, no. About five years ago. No, I think it was... I think it was 1960 it became a state.

Prabhupada: 1960.

Gaurasundara: There was 48 states for a long time, and then about the last 10 years, Hawaii and Alaska were added, made 50.

Prabhupada: At that time, before that, Hawaii was under some king?

Gaurasundara: No, Hawaii was a territory. It was a United States Territory, but it wasn't attached to the United States.

Prabhupada: Territory means, er, conquered?

Gaurasundara: Well, it was...

Prabhupada: Occupied by force.

Gaurasundara: Well, it was purchased, purchased from Russia.

Prabhupada: Oh.

Devotee: No, that was Alaska.

Gaurasundara: Oh, Hawaii was…, yes it was, more or less taken over by Americans. It was also a territory.

Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. Somehow or other they are chanting Hare Krsna. Why don't you [indistinct]?

Gaurasundara: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: [indistinct] Tomorrow is also [indistinct]?

Govinda dasi: Yes, maybe. [indistinct]

Gaurasundara: Yes, tomorrow is [indistinct].

Govinda dasi: At what time? I wish I had known [indistinct].

Prabhupada: What is this called? [indistinct]

Gaurasundara: Yes.

Prabhupada: [indistinct] so many [indistinct]

Govinda dasi: Do you need a new sweater, Srila Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Govinda dasi: Do you need a new sweater?

Prabhupada: I have got many.

Govinda dasi: Ah, never mind.

Prabhupada: Sweater I have got many now.

Gaurasundara: One.

Govinda dasi: One. Is it that saffron one?

Prabhupada: I got… Last year I got over one dozen.

Gaurasundara: But not here.

Govinda dasi: You gave them all away.

Prabhupada: Huh?

Govinda dasi: You gave them all away. [laughs]

Gaurasundara: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: I distributed some in London; I distributed some here.

Govinda dasi: [laughs]

Devotee: And in India there are still many.

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Devotee: In Bombay there are still many. There are so many clothes in Bombay from the devotees. One…, one girl here, she was asking what she could make for you. And I suggested that she should make a sweater. And she [indistinct]. The devotee that come in... come in said please [indistinct].

Prabhupada: That is nice. The spirit is nice.

Devotee: So I told one girl...

Prabhupada: To do something, to serve something, that is the way of understanding Krsna.

When you have the service attitude, then Krsna becomes pleased. Whole process is service, according to one's capacity. So it is not required in that one has to serve in this way or that way. No. The spirit should be service to the best capacity. Take, for example, I came here with a service position, that I must give some service to my Guru Maharaja, [background noise; moving microphone] not that I thought of success. But the spirit was that Guru Maharaja told me I must do something, whatever I can. It may be failure; it may be success-let me try. This service spirit is the only goal. There is no other way.

You must be a servant-either you're a servant of maya, or the senses, or Krsna. You cannot become master. We are all servant. The so-called karmis are servant of their senses, that's all. They're working so hard, being servant of their senses. The karmis, they are servant of sex, that's all. That is their encouragement: they are working so hard, they will enjoy sex. That is their only solace. Is that not? What other things they have got to enjoy? The are simply suffering, simply suffering, working hard; their only satisfaction is enjoying sex. That is the center: the servant of sex. All karmis.

Not only karmis, everyone-all animals, all beasts, everyone-servant of sex. And the human so-called civilization, they have made arrangement: big sex interest. They are advertising sex, their theater is sex, their club is sex, their home is sex. What do they know beyond sex? So they are servant of sex. Is it not? Servant of sex, senses. Sex is the ultimate sense, but there are many other senses. Tongue is sense, ear is sense, nose is sense, eyes are sense. Eh? Then genital is sense. The sense organs, different.

So everyone is servant. Somebody is servant of Krsna, somebody is servant of sex. If you remain servant of the senses, you are never happy. If you became servant of Krsna… You have to remain servant; you cannot be master. Rather, if you serve Krsna then you become master of your senses. That is gosvami. To become servant of Krsna means master of senses. So the senses cannot now order, "You do this." "No, I am engaged in Krsna's service." Therefore he becomes master. Then he becomes gosvami. Go means senses; svami means master. When you become master of the senses, then you're gosvami. And when you become servant of the senses, you are godasa.

Now our whole process is become servant of Krsna so that automatically I become master of the senses. There is no separatedness. One becomes servant of the king, he gets a post, master of the citizens. Is it not? Minister, big post, secretary. He becomes servant of the king or state but becomes master of the people, governor. So if you become servant of Krsna, you become master. Otherwise you remain servant of senses. If somebody says that "What is the wrong to remain servant of the senses? After all, I am servant. Instead of becoming servant of Krsna, if I remain servant of senses, what is the wrong? Tell me."

Govinda dasi: They are never satisfied.

Prabhupada: Huh?

Govinda dasi: They are never satisfied.

Prabhupada: Yes, that is the...

Govinda dasi: They are never [indistinct].

Prabhupada: A little service to Krsna, Krsna is so kind and He is so much satisfied. And here, you go on serving... they're never satisfied. The servant of the world is said that he… My practical example, that I have made provisions for my wife and children so they can simply eat and chant Hare Krsna, but still they want me to become their servant. So dangerous [indistinct]. Hmm?

Even if you keep them very nicely, still they will require your service.What does he do, what [indistinct]. Never happy. You cannot make happy, maya's servant. But if you give little service to Krsna, He immediately [indistinct], and immense profit. The maya is so strong that you go on the best service, life long, we still we will find no satisfaction.

Therefore the service attitude is the only process to elevate oneself in Krsna consciousness. And this automatically. Why these girls and these boys, why you are all trying to serve? That is natural. It is natural. Krsna is not directly contacted, so Krsna's representative that, that attitude: "Let me serve to the servant of Krsna." That is good policy. And we have to accept this. We cannot deny it. The service spirit will be… Otherwise I don't require anyone's service, by living alone. And now we are creating so many servants of Krsna, when they offer some service, we accept. [indistinct].

Actually I don't require service; I can remain alone. I was doing that, [laughs] actually. But when preaching was there, the creating servant of Krsna, then I have to accept, to encourage them, to train them. That is spiritual master's business. But the service is accepted on behalf of Krsna, not for personal benefit. I cannot accept any service for my personal account unless I serve Krsna. I serve Krsna means I make you a perfect servant of Krsna. So I have to train. That is my...

Gaurasundara: Srila Prabhupada, can I cut up one of these mangoes for you?

Prabhupada: Yes.

[pause] Come on. Very good.

Govinda dasi: [indistinct conversation with Gaurasundara]

Prabhupada: No. [indistinct] What is that?

Gaurasundara: Govinda dasi suggested that I peel like this, because sometimes there are some worms.

Prabhupada: Worms?

Govinda dasi: Srila Prabhupada, do they have worms in them in India? There is a little bug. It stings the skin, and if it stings the skin there may be some tiny, tiny worms.

Gaurasundara: I should peel the whole?

Prabhupada: No.

Gaurasundara: Peel it off?

Govinda dasi: He can't eat it like this.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Govinda dasi: [laughs] That's how we eat it in Hawaii.

Prabhupada: I am expecting [indistinct].

Gaurasundara: They might do it. They have done it before. No more? You want me to [indistinct]?

Prabhupada: That's all right.

Govinda dasi: [laughing] It's the sweetest sweetball I've ever had.

Prabhupada: Yes. Who has made it?

Gaurasundara: I think Silavati.

Prabhupada: Silavati is good cook. [indistinct]

Govinda dasi: Would you like for me to cut it?

Prabhupada: No, no. This is [indistinct]. In mango season, my father used to purchase a full basket. In India they are sold in baskets. They were very cheap in those days. Three rupees, a big basket at least containing more than hundred mangoes, first-class mangoes. Otherwise one rupee, two rupees. So in our childhood we take each mango, and while playing, we were eating like this, in this way.

Govinda dasi: The children in Hawaii, they are always eating mangoes.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Govinda dasi: Their faces are always yellow from eating.

Prabhupada: I remember I was traveling with my father [indistinct] a train, and he gave me a big mango. At that time I was small, so all sides had become moist with mango juice, and when it is dried up, I was feeling so much inconvenience, but there was no water. Finally, I knew how to undo it. I remember that precarious time. [pause]

Govinda dasi: That's how we eat them in Hawaii.

Prabhupada: Huh?

Govinda dasi: That's how we eat them in Hawaii.

Prabhupada: Hmm. [indistinct]

Govinda dasi: I prefer to eat them that way. Gaurasundara will not eat them unless they are cut into little pieces.

Prabhupada: Huh?

Govinda dasi: I prefer to eat them like that. But Gaurasundara will not eat mangoes unless they are cut into little pieces. They are juicy.

Prabhupada: How Krsna has arranged. How is nicely cut, it is total juice. Still they cannot keep all.

Govinda dasi: They come in such abundance, just during the heat of the sun.

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Govinda dasi: They come in such abundance, just during the heat of the sun or whatever such fruit is needed.

Prabhupada: In Russia there was no mango, no fruit or nectar. Whatever you have prepared, you have to take from government's store. Stand up in the line, wait for one hour, two hours. And for meat, you can get easily.

[long pause]

Manufacture such a nice thing in your factories. Then you say that there is no God. In the name of becoming scientist they are so fools and rascals. What do you think? Do you admit or not?

Gaurasundara: Yes. They sent...

Prabhupada: Huh?

Gaurasundara: Did you know the Russians sent three men to space for twenty-four days? Did you hear that?

Prabhupada: I was…, I was hearing from Karandhara.

Gaurasundara: Yes.

Prabhupada: What happened? They are dead.

Gaurasundara: Yes. They were talking with them on the radio, and everything nice, and then when they landed they opened the capsule and they were dead. And they thought perhaps that's why they died. They think because they were in weightless condition, they could not return any more to the earth's surface.

Prabhupada: All nonsense. What is the benefit of sending a man in that condition? Simply propaganda. Unlearned. In that senseless way, why they come back on this planet? Why not other planet? What was the idea?

Gaurasundara: Oh, they want to establish a space station. They want to build like a building up in space, floating around the earth.

Govinda dasi: They've completely lost their minds.

Prabhupada: Huh?

Govinda dasi: They've completely lost their minds. They don't even know their ideas anymore [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Ravana tried to make a staircase for going directly to heaven, it is like that. Ravana said that "Why there should be religious life for going to heaven?" Just like they are also challenging, that "Why one should be religious, godly, for being elevated to the heavenly planets? We shall go by missile." That is their plan. So this challenge of Ravana class of men is always there. You cannot conquer the laws of God or nature by Ravana's mentality.

That is not possible. You can try, but it will never be successful. So the result is instead of establishing a platform, they establish a dying. That is the natural result. But still they are proud of their science. Why don't you write?

Gaurasundara: Yes, I should write.

Prabhupada: And they cannot explain why he died. What is the advancement? What is the next…, or what is the actual result of this expedition?

Gaurasundara: They become very depressed.

Prabhupada: They have written?

Gaurasundara: Yes. The whole Russian nation is shocked.

Prabhupada: Then they will be depressed more and more. Your Lenin or Stalin cannot save you. They await more depression. In a godless country you will simply be depressed. Note it down. Maya bhrasta divesena[?]. When one becomes too much attached to the influence of maya, they talk like that and become disappointed. Again attempt, another; again disappointment.

There is a story in India. There is a province, Orissa. The people of that province are very cowardly[?]. There is a story of the Orissan man that one man, he was quarreling with him, so he challenged him, "All right, you have said you can slap me. Slap me. All right. I am [indistinct].

Slap me." So he slapped in this way. "Oh, you have slapped me. All right, you have slapped this side. I see you have slapped this side; again you slap this side." Still he said, "All right, you have slapped enough. You can slap… Can you can slap my son?" and slap. So the slapping is going on, and still he is challenging.

These rascals are like this. Nature's slapping is going on, "All right, now better this attempt, and this attempt, this attempt." Exactly the same theory after [indistinct]. In every item they are being failure, but still, "All right. Slap me. Attempt like this." The Americans, they advertise they have gone, and they brought some dust, without any profit.

They are also proud. And the Russians, they are killing so many men, and afterwards they are proud. "All right, this was failure. All right, try again." The same slapping process. Nature is slapping, seriously, but still, "All right, you have slapped in this way. Can you slap like this?" [indistinct]

They are so shameless, shameless rascals. They have no shame even, that "We have been proved, useless. You stop this rascaldom." No. They will, "Another. Slap me in this way." That I have seen. This is going on. In every respect they are being slapped, but still challenging, "All right, you can slap. You can slap me in this way." We have [indistinct].

Why they have become successful? Still they are proud of their learning. Simply wasting time and teaching others to waste time. This is going on. From time in memorial, Ravana's society like this. Hiranyakasipu tried to become immortal. So these attempts are going on perpetually, but history proves that nobody has become successful. When this news came?

Gaurasundara: The one yesterday?

Prabhupada: Hmm. What was the heading?

Gaurasundara: "Three die in space."

Prabhupada: Hmm.

Govinda dasi: In the Bible also there is somebody who tried to build a tower of Babel.

Prabhupada: What is that story?

Govinda dasi: I don't know.

Gaurasundara: They tried to build one tower to Heaven

Prabhupada: Ah. And what happened?

Gaurasundara: It failed. The whole thing broke.

Govinda dasi: It smashed.

Prabhupada: [aside:] What is that?

Devotee: Saci-suta Prabhu requests that you chant on some new beads for him.

Prabhupada: Why?

Devotee: He said he lost his old tulasi beads a year ago, and he needed some others. That's why he asked. Also there is one set of beads from one prabhu on sahkirtana.

[aside] So you like Gaura-sakti[?] Prabhu.

Prabhupada: So I am enjoying this mango in this way.

Devotee: I am enjoying mangoes, so many mangoes. Can I ask you one more question, Srila Prabhupada, about these initiations? Tomorrow's the last batch.

Prabhupada: Hmm.

Devotee: There are [counting] three, four, five, six… There are eight for...

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Devotee: There are eight for harinama initiation and nine for gayatri, but one of the names for gayatri is Loka-mala, which you have just initiated, either today or yesterday, Loka-mala. But she is supposed to be married to one boy who is a brahmana this Sunday coming. She is supposed to be married to one boy who is a brahmana, and so they are recommending her for second. Is that all right?

Prabhupada: When she is [indistinct]?

Devotee: She is going to be married this coming Sunday.

Prabhupada: That is all right.

Devotee: That is all right?

Prabhupada: So building up the platform in space is faster?

Gaurasundara: Yes. If they go up, they cannot come back again. They have to stay there.

Prabhupada: Huh?

Gaurasundara: If they go out and live on that platform, they cannot return again to earth. Because their heart can no longer pump; it becomes lazy, and when they return to the gravity the heart is smashed. So it means that if they go up there, then they have to stay.

Prabhupada: That proposition is nonsense. [laughter]. Either they can stay, and if they come, they die. That is good proposition. [laughter] Why not stay here and chant Hare Krsna? Like that. But your position is that "You go, we cannot stay there. We have to come back." And if you come back you die. So why not they should stay and chant Hare Krsna, and then prepare yourself to go to the highest planets, or any other planet?

Krsna can give you any other planet you like. Just like Dhruva Maharaja wanted his father's kingdom, so Krsna gave him [indistinct], gave him the polestar. That is Dhruva Maharaja's kingdom. Krsna can give you anything you want. Why you bother yourself with that? That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita.

So we are the most intelligent persons in the world, because we don't take such foolish trouble, but we are assured through injuction of the best planet, or wherever we want to go. So the mūḍha, they will not accept this. Na mam prapadyante mūḍhaḥ [Bg 7.15]. They will never become Krsna conscious, because they are rascals. Na mam prapadyante mūḍhaḥ, duskrtinaḥ. They are always sinful, eating meat. They cannot do this. They will travel like… [end]