Bhajana with Harmonium, Room Conversation – November 10, 1973, Delhi

731110R1-DELHI [43:18 Minutes] C-170

They are known to me. What is the use of answering?

[Bhajana with harmonium]

Prabhupada: You follow.

[Bhajana continues with new tune] [break]

[Prabhupada leads Bhajana, with devotees responding]

[06:24]

Prabhupada: That's all. [break] This tune I don't…? Ha? Brahmananda, do you know it?

Brahmananda: This tune? No.

Devotee: You did it in London.

Prabhupada: Hm?

Devotee: In London you did also, I think.

Prabhupada: No, I think I did it in Los Angeles? Eh?

Rukmini dasi: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Los Angeles, when I was in [indistinct]. In Los Angeles there is a [indistinct]

Brahmananda: [indistinct]?

Prabhupada: Yes. In front of a school. At that time Purusottama was. Purusottama and Kartikeya and Sudama, and there was competition to collect flowers in the morning, early in the morning. So Sudama took first, and Purusottama second and Kartikeya third. [laughter] Kartikeya would collect so much and Purusottama so much. And Sudama… [laughter] There was regular competition for collecting flowers in the morning.

Devotee: In the neighborhood?

Prabhupada: Yes. Collecting means stealing. [laughter] Stealing for Krsna.

Devotee: Sudama was telling me that he had unfair, because they got to go first, so they got all the closest flowers, and he had to go far away to find his flowers.

Prabhupada: [laughs] He still he collected more. All rose and...

Brahmananda: Gardenia.

Prabhupada: Gardenia. No, there was little others, but mostly roses and gardenias. Here we cannot; neither there is any flowers in front of any house. So your country is in so many ways benedicted. Take to Krsna consciousness movement and you are perfect. You'll be demigods on this planet. Push this movement. Here in India so much scarcity. It's a curse. Scarcity means it is curse. So after my coming, was there any program? No. In the panḍal? You were there?

Devotee: After you left.

Devotee (2): We were in the program after Prabhupada left. And then at nine o'clock there was prasadam.

Prabhupada: No question-answer?

Devotee: Individually there were questions. There were not so many people after...

Prabhupada: Ha?

Devotee: There were not so many people after everything was over. [break]

Prabhupada: [laughter] Crossing three oceans and seven seas and thirteen rivers, then come to this island. Unless one is very Columbus, serious, he will not come. So we say in Bengali, sa samudra taro nadi[?], seven seas and thirteen rivers, after crossing. People cannot come with their car also, that is another thing. Gentleman will come, and you will have to leave your car three miles away. That is another thing. Only the most interested persons are coming. Therefore you will see, they are all... They are interested persons. It is better to select the most interested.

Devotee: Next time we will have it at Palam Airport.

Prabhupada: Hm?

Devotee: Next time we will have it further away, so we can get the most interested.

Prabhupada: So then nobody will come. [laughter] They say that "Your intelligence is so big that it cannot be captured." And somebody says, "Your intelligence is so subtle, it may be said that you have no intelligence." [laughter] So one man's intelligence cannot be captured; another man has no intelligence. Eh? "Your intelligence is so fine that it may be said that there is no intelligence," and "Your intelligence is so big that it cannot be captured." So both ways it proves no intelligence.

Another story is that one boy, he appeared in his examination. His father asked, "How did you reply to your examination paper?" "Yes, quite nice." Then he said, "How?" "So there were very difficult questions that I could not answer, and there were easier questions, they are known to me; I did not answer." [laughter] "They are known to me. What is the use of answering? The difficult questions I could not answer, and the easier, that I know, there is no use of answering." That means he did not do anything.

So Rukmini-devi, how you are? You have learned something, doll-making?

Rukmini dasi: I'm trying.

Prabhupada: Still trying?

Rukmini dasi: I am making Radha-Krsna and [indistinct] Baradraj, saḍ-bhūja, Adi-deva.

Prabhupada: Saḍ-bhūja... No, simply you have to learn the art, how to do it. Then you can make any number of bhūjas-saḍ-bhūja, ten-bhuja, just [laughter] you have to learn how to make the straw…, what is called?

Devotee: Body.

Prabhupada: Straw body. You have learned that, how to do it?

Rukmini dasi: We are learning.

Devotee: That is the main problem.

Prabhupada: That is the main thing, yes. Structure. Then you can…, any artist can, I mean, do the covering, the art. But these people, they know; within half an hour they make one body, straw body. In Calcutta there is a place, Kumartuli, simply they are doll-makers. So during… There are so many pūjas, Sarasvati-pūja, Kalki-pūja, Kali-pūja. So each man will make ten deities, twenty deities, daily.

Devotee: That is small?

Prabhupada: Eh? Not very small; say two feet high.

Devotee: Where is this in Calcutta?

Prabhupada: Calcutta it is called Kumartuli. Kumartuli means "potters' quarters." They are all potters. That was the benefit of caste system. A class, they are simply engaged in pottery, family-wise, all-small children, wife, husband, everyone. They know. Similarly goldsmith, blacksmith, carpenter, all these artisans classified, and by generation they know everything. Weaver. So there are no competition, and because they do it family-wise, their charges are not very much. They are satisfied, any little amount they get. That was the Indian civilization. Brahmana is satisfied.

All other workers, they are satisfied with what they get. Vaisya, agriculture, whatever he is producing, that's all right. The balance time they would save for Krsna consciousness. This was the basic principle, and these rascal leaders, they thought that they are not energetic-inertia. Give them wine, give them meat, they will be enthusiastic. That is the present policy. Simple life. Now they have changed-very complicated, complex life, industrial life, ugra-karma. Ugra-karma, that is described in the sixteenth chapter of Bhagavad-gita. Find out that.

Pradyumna: Find what?

Prabhupada: Sixteenth chapter, pravrttim ca nivrttim ca vidur asuraḥ jana [Bg 16.7]. Jagad ahur anisvaram [Bg 16.8]. Pravrttim ca nivrttim ca vidur asuraḥ jana.

Pradyumna: [reads]

"Those who are demoniac do not know what is to be done and what is not to be done. Neither cleanliness nor proper behavior nor truth is found in them."

Prabhupada: Then? Next verse.

Pradyumna: [reads]

"They say that this world is unreal, that there is no foundation and that there is no God in control. It is produced of sex desire, and has no cause other than lust."

Prabhupada: Then? Go on.

Pradyumna: [reads]

Prabhupada: Ugra-karma, ugra-karma. Go on.

Pradyumna: …ksayaya jagato 'hitaḥ [Bg 16.9].

Prabhupada: ksayaya jagato 'hitaḥ

Pradyumna: [reads] "Following such conclusions, the demoniac, who are lost to themselves and who have no intelligence, engage in unbeneficial, horrible works meant to destroy the world."

Prabhupada: Purport.

Pradyumna: [reads] "The demoniac are engaged in activities that will lead the world to destruction. The Lord states here that they are less intelligent. The materialists, who have no concept of God, think that they are advancing..."

Prabhupada: This has been proved true by the last two world wars-destruction. Twice Europe, whole Europe became destroyed. Is it not? Germany especially. Russia also.

Devotee (3): I was there in Poland after the war, in Europe. But everything, practically all of Warsaw was practically was completely destroyed. All the people were living in ruins.

Prabhupada: Yes, jagato 'hitaḥ. Ksayaya, this ugra-karma. The industry is ugra-karma. It is not simple. Industrial enterprise is ugra-karma. Just like this room, big, big crucible. You have seen? How you have seen?

Rukmini dasi: The crucible is like a [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Iron, other metals, especially iron, melted, and that is molded. If somehow or other it slips, all men will be killed immediately. Such a big crucible. It is carried by railway, then it is lifted, then gradually poured in the mold. Then it goes to make big, big beams and all this. Ugra-karma. They require big, big beams for the skyscraper building. Ha? Do they not require, big, big beams?

The skyscraper buildings fitting those big, big beams, the American Indians are engaged?

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupada: The Americans cannot do it. They do not take so much risk. They have had some accidents also?

Devotee: The Mohawk Indians.

Prabhupada: Yes?

Devotee: One tribe, the Mohawk...

Prabhupada: Mohawk.

Devotee: …especially for heights, because they are from mountains, so they were employed on top of bridges and buildings.

Devotee (2): They're not scared of looking down. It is so far high that the Indians are not scared to be so high.

Prabhupada: If I am put there, immediately I will fall. Yes. It is gravity. No inexpert man can do that. Ugra-karma. If you can live on the ground, little production milk and grains…Ugra-karma, ksayaya jagato 'hitaḥ [Bg 16.9]. If we say that this is ugra-karma, they will say, "Oh, you want to go to the primitive world." Primitive world means there was no improvement.

[pause]

What people are remarking about our festival? Did you hear, overhear anything? No.

Devotee: Many people are coming; they are impressed with our activities. They especially come because they are impressed. They have been to some of our previous programs.

Prabhupada: Ha?

Devotee: They have attended some of our previous programs.

Prabhupada: Yes, previously they were so enthusiastic. They wanted to continue, requested me to continue, and the LC manager said, "Yes, I will give extension." Do you know that? But you stopped. We could have continued; they were very much pleased. Hansaraj was sorry that… He remarked that.

Devotee: In his talk.

Prabhupada: Never mind. Whatever Krsna desires, that's all right. But number of people was greater than yesterday.

Devotee: Oh, yes.

Prabhupada: It may increase.

Devotee: Every day was very glorious. The sankirtan parties distributed many books.

Brahmananda: The Mauritius High Commissioner said that he was lifted tonight. He felt lifted up by attending. He said, "Oh, this has given me a lift." I told him because it is the meaning of life, that we are doing so many things without knowing meaning. So when we actually know the meaning…

Prabhupada: Nobody knows what is the aim of life.

Brahmananda: Yes.

Prabhupada: Mūḍha. My Guru Maharaja used to say bokaran[?]. Boka you know? It is Indian word, boka. Boka means foolish. Such important life they are wasting like animals. So, Anita[?], how you are feeling. Ha? What your father says?

Mataji: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Ha?

Mataji: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: You do not like to stay there? [laughs] Hare Krsna. Why? Just go and sleep on the lap of your mother. Ha? Your mother is angry?

Mataji: No.

Prabhupada: She is not. Father?

Mataji: No.

Brahmananda: He telephoned.

Prabhupada: Ha?

Brahmananda: He telephoned me today.

Prabhupada: Hm. Why? He said [indistinct]?

Brahmananda: He said that he is sorry he did not bring the car, and that he wanted to come to the program; he would try to come.

Prabhupada: Hm. The father, mother, both should be... They are blessed, because their devotee's child. So they are feeling...

Devotee: You have stolen us.

Prabhupada: Ha?

Devotee: You have stolen us from all of our parents.

Prabhupada: Yes. Yes, your mother said.

Brahmananda: Yes. She has given two sons to you.

Prabhupada: Yes. I asked her, "Give us some contribution." "I have given two, my two sons!" [devotees laugh] And "That's all right. Don't be [indistinct]." She was coming in that time, so I asked her, that "Give us some contribution Mrs. [indistinct]." "So I have given you my two sons!" Why give father and mother? They are so much feeling obliged. Our Acutyananda's mother would also come.

Devotee: Oh, yes. She came regularly.

Prabhupada: And that Trayadisa, his mother. No, our Mr. Pellan[?], he is also happy, at least. Every sober father and mother will be happy. What your father says?

Rukmini dasi: He always asks, "Where is Prabhupada?"

Prabhupada: He is not happy?

Rukmini dasi: Yes. He always asks, "Where is Prabhupada?"

Prabhupada: Achha. Her father came to me at marriage. I called him. Her father is a big businessman. What business is your father in?

Rukmini dasi: Textiles.

Prabhupada: He has got mill?

Rukmini dasi: No, he has two shops in the suburbs.

Prabhupada: Oh. Seller.

Rukmini dasi: Yes. [indistinct]

Prabhupada: How many children he has got?

Rukmini dasi: One brother and one sister.

Prabhupada: Oh. And what is the condition of your brother?

Rukmini dasi: He is a scholar.

Prabhupada: A what?

Rukmini dasi: He is younger than me, but he was becoming a scholar.

Prabhupada: He has passed M.A.?

Rukmini dasi: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: He has passed his master's?

Rukmini dasi: No, no, he is young. He is taking four years of high school in three years.

Prabhupada: What is the age?

Rukmini dasi: He is, umm, he is seventeen.

Prabhupada: Much younger.

Rukmini dasi: Yes.

Prabhupada: So he likes you, your brother? Mother? The mother also came, I think.

Rukmini dasi: Yes [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Now you have got Krsna, be happy.

If anyone gets Krsna, then he doesn't want any more anything. Svamin krtartho'smi varam na yace [Cc Madhya 22.42]. Dhruva Maharaja did penance. So Visnu: "Take benediction. You've undergone so much austerity. Whatever you want, you can take it from Me."Svamin krtartho'smi varam na yace. He went for tapasya for getting kingdom, but when he was offered the benediction, he says that "I don't want anything,"krtartho'smi. "I am so much obliged and satisfied. I don't want it."

"I was searching after some pieces of broken glasses; now I have got diamonds."Kacam vicinvann api divya-ratnam. "Then where is my demand any more? I went searching after broken pieces of glass, and now I have got diamonds." So where is the case for asking him? Krtartho: "I am fully satisfied; I don't want." This is Krsna consciousness. One is fully satisfied with Krsna, then he... Sit down anywhere, any place, full of thought of Krsna-no more worries. That is gopis' perfection. They don't want. Even Krsna is not with them, the thought of Krsna is there: "Oh, Krsna is now in the forest. He is walking on the ground full of pebbles on His soft soles of His feet," and they are in anxiety. So this is Krsna consciousness. Even Krsna is not present, thinking of Krsna. That is their perfection.

Gopis, they are the perfection of Krsna consciousness, and out of the gopis, Radharani, the topmost gopi, who has purchased Krsna. Krsna is purchased by Radharani. Therefore Krsna, to understand what assets He has got, that Radharani is pleased so much, therefore He took the..., what is called, mode of Radharani to understand Himself. That is Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is the ecstasy of Radharani feeling separation from Krsna. That is Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Krsna left Vrndavana for Mathura, and then all the gopis and Radharani, they are feeling separation. That is the mode of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, how they were feeling separation from Krsna.

So Rukmini devi, you are feeling like that? Like the gopis? Ha?

Rukmini dasi: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Yes. That is the first stage. Govinda-virahena me. What is that verse? Sūnyayitam jagat sarvam govinda-virahena me.

Rukmini dasi: Yugayitam...

Prabhupada: Ha?

Rukmini dasi: Yugayitam nimesena...

Prabhupada: Ha.

Yugayitam nimesena. Nimisa. The... What is called?

Devotee: Blinking.

Prabhupada: Blinking, the blinking of the eyes. That is called nimisa. It is called nimisa. This time is called nimisa. So that nimisa is twelve years-so long. Yugayitam nimesena. And caksusa pravrsayitam, tears coming down, torrents of rain. Sūnyayitam jagat sarvam: whole world vacant; govinda-virahena me, being separated from Govinda. This is Caitanya Mahaprabhu's…

[break] ...grahane bhavisyate. What is that verse?

[break] …sidhardaya. Ha?

Rukmini dasi: I don't know.

Prabhupada:

[break]

Devotee: …very satisfied [indistinct] Vrndavana.

Prabhupada: [indistinct] Sixteen times thirty-five, with four hundred and eighty. That comparison we get. We started with one hundred and twenty.