January 6, 1976, Bombay
Prabhupāda: ...Dialectic Spiritualism.
Dr. Patel: You have taken their word.
Prabhupāda: It is not their words, but just to counter...
Dr. Patel: In fact, sir, Engels was a spiritualist, and his chela, Karl Marx, became materialist because he saw, accept poverty all round, due to the industrial revolution. He thought in that way.
Prabhupāda: As if he was ordained to do it.
Dr. Patel: But, well, he felt... He was a philosopher.
Prabhupāda: Such a rascal. He has moved poverty. He was in poverty-stricken...
Dr. Patel: He was extremely poor man. Yes, he died (indistinct). But that is what he thought.
Prabhupāda: That means poor fund of knowledge. That's it. These rascals will never go to the... Tad-vijñānārthaṁ sa gurum evābhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. They do not know this science, these rascals. They manufacture. And we have also learned to manufacture.
Dr. Patel: No, he did only on the Western thought.
Prabhupāda: No, no, Western philosophy... We have learned this art, manufacturing. Just like Vinoba Bhave's has proposed, "I want mukti not in the traditional way." He'll manufacture his own way. This is his intelligence after eighty-two years or eighty-one years. "Not in the traditional, not in the religious way." Just see. He's still hovering in darkness, and he's going to get mukti. This is the position.
Trivikrama: Prabhupāda has said that the Russian intelligence and Indian culture.
Dr. Patel: Sir, I may tell you. Russians are not that intelligent. I have very poor regard for the Russian intelligence. Intelligence is not with Russians that much.
Prabhupāda: No. No, no, all Europeans, they're very intelligent.
Dr. Patel: Especially Germans.
Prabhupāda: They're very intelligent. Germans are extraordinarily...
Indian man: The Aryan races are intelligent, and in Russia there is a mixture...
Prabhupāda: They are Aryans. They are Aryans.
Dr. Patel: Mixture, Aryan as well as the yellow race.
Prabhupāda: Mixture everywhere now.
Dr. Patel: No, here... I mean, so far as the Eastern European countries, they are more or less pure. They are mixed in a way.
Prabhupāda: Anyway, we are not on that platform, we or anyone. We think we are on the... Everyone in the material platform, more or less, they are rascals, here or there. The Bengali is guhyera epi han opi. You know this? Stool, this side or that side, Eastern side or Western side, it is, after all, stool. (laughs) If somebody says, "Eastern side of the stool is very good," that is his foolishness.
Dr. Patel: After the scattering of these Aryans, they have come different place. How is it that we brought all the cultural heritage in north, east and western countries? They must have also taken. But because they have to live very hard life, they are in cold countries...
Prabhupāda: And what do you mean by "we"? We are not...
Dr. Patel: "We" means our forefathers.
Prabhupāda: Forefathers may be saintly person, but we are not. Why do you say "we"?
Dr. Patel: "We" means the descendants of our forefathers.
Prabhupāda: My father might have been very rich man, but I am a poverty-stricken man, loitering in the street. Why say "we"?
Dr. Patel: "We" means these Aryans in India, they brought all the Vedas and Vedic culture with them. They must have taken it in.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. One who is speaking, he is not in Vedic culture. That is the difficulty.
Dr. Patel: I talk of these historical facts, sir. Historically, Eastern European races are just our cousin. I mean the Indian races. But still, they have not been able to take the...
Prabhupāda: This, falsely to become proud: "We... We have done." What I am at the present? That is to be taken, not that... Now in Bengal... "Fourteen generations before my father took ghee, and I have got a smell." (laughs) What is that? Whether you are eating ghee or not, that is talk, not that "Fourteen generations before my father and forefathers ate ghee, and I have got the smell here." (laughs)
Dr. Patel: No, we talk of Vedic culture, sir.
Prabhupāda: Vedic culture is all right now. There is no question of "we" or "you."
Dr. Patel: But why it is not with them?
Prabhupāda: Why it is not with you? First of all say why you are challenging them? (laughter) First of all challenge yourself.
Dr. Patel: (laughing) That's right. But they have not, their forefathers have got. We have at least with our forefathers.
Prabhupāda: No, no, their forefathers are the Aryans, the same forefathers, your forefathers.
Dr. Patel: They're Aryans, but they did not take the Vedic culture with them.
Prabhupāda: They did not take. You are not taking. That's the same thing.
Dr. Patel: Presently the whole world is...
Prabhupāda: That's all. That is our concern, how the world is misdirected. That we are challenging, this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. It is not that "East," "West," "you," "I." Everyone is a victim. Bhāgavata says, prāyena kalau asmin yuga-jana: "In this age everyone is condemned." It doesn't say that "These Eastern, Western..." Everyone is condemned. Kalau asmin yuga-jana. That is impartial. (to Mahāṁsa:) How are you? Everything is all right?
Mahāṁsa: Yes, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: So Badruka is the same?
Mahāṁsa: He came yesterday in the evening. I could not see him.
Prabhupāda: So, it is not yet registered?
Mahāṁsa: No. As soon as I get back today, it will be registered. He came just yesterday in the evening.
Prabhupāda: So, what other news?
Mahāṁsa: We are just waiting to get some water facilities made so that we can start doing something in the meantime.
Prabhupāda: The water is not yet there?
Mahāṁsa: One building is finished. Now the pump has to be gotten for that. The second building, we didn't have... I wasn't over there. I had gone to South India to collect some money. And then, when I came back, the people had gone away because there was no money to be paid to them.
Prabhupāda: Why? I have already transferred?
Mahāṁsa: That came just five days back. So now we'll be working on it full swing because we have some money.
Prabhupāda: So the bank has transferred?
Mahāṁsa: Yes, Prabhupāda.
Prabhupāda: So the prospect is nice?
Mahāṁsa: Oh, yes.
Prabhupāda: People are coming?
Mahāṁsa: When I came... When I went to the South, to down South, there was about 270 people.
Mahāṁsa: Yes. But then, when I returned, there was only fifty people.
Mahāṁsa: Because the prasādam quantity was cut down.
Prabhupāda: Why cut down?
Mahāṁsa: I don't know.
Prabhupāda: So you don't know. Then who knows?
Mahāṁsa: Well, Tejas and Haṁsadūta, they said to cut down the prasādam quantity.
Prabhupāda: These nonsense ideas, why you make without asking? I am paying money. Why it should be cut down? Don't do anything nonsensical. This should be increased. I shall pay. Why you are anxious? So?
Mahāṁsa: Now when I get back I'm going to work on it and see that at least...
Prabhupāda: They should come. Every evening they should come, as many as possible. Give them prasādam. Our mission is to induce them to chant and take prasādam. Then, next stage, if they want to work with us, it is welcome. If not, we shall go on giving prasādam and induce them to chant. This is our mission.
Mahāṁsa: The village people are very happy.
Mahāṁsa: The stone-cutting has also started.
Prabhupāda: Ah, that's nice.
Mahāṁsa: They're doing very well.
Prabhupāda: Here we're inviting everyone, "Come here. Live here. Take prasādam and chant. Don't drink tea. That's all." (chuckles) That is... Hare Kṛṣṇa.
Trivikrama: "No tea?"
Prabhupāda: No tea, no cigarette. That is their disease. No tea, no... Don't stop prasādam. Never. Increase. I shall beg and supply you money. Don't worry. But don't waste it. Simply you take money and utilize it for preaching. My only anxiety is that don't be extravagant. Otherwise you take money and spend it.
Mahāṁsa: Don't be extravagant.
Prabhupāda: You should always know that hard-earned money is... By working at night I am producing book, and they're working there hard, selling the books, and money is coming in that way. So either he or me, mine or yours, it is hard-earned money. It is not easily coming. And therefore we should be cautious. But there is no question of curtailing. There is no question.
Mahāṁsa: Now we are in the process of making a brochure so that we can present to trusts and foundations for bigger donations for the farm project.
Prabhupāda: That's nice. They have amassed money. Let them spend for this village organization. This is real Gandhi's program. He wanted this village organization. But because they manufactured their own way, it was not successful. But if we follow this principle, it will be successful, without any doubt. These big, big āśrama... Gandhi's āśrama is vacant. No. They are getting money, but they have no such program.
Dr. Patel: (indistinct)
Prabhupāda: It must be, because there is no solid program. There is no solid program, simply imagination.
Dr. Patel: No. Because the followers...
Prabhupāda: How there will be followers? If there is some program, then there will be followers.
Dr. Patel: He wanted to defend the commoners. He wanted to defend the order (indistinct). But he unfortunately died.
Prabhupāda: Everyone will die. But (Hindi). If you do something tangible, then you will live. And if you do something fictitious, then with your death everything is gone. (Hindi) But here the whole population is duṣkṛti. They are kṛti, but they are doing something wrong: duṣkṛti. How? Prapanna prapa jante mām. This is a miscon..., mischievous activity. Because he has not surrendered to Kṛṣṇa, whatever he has done, it is all mischievous. Kṛṣṇa says, na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhāḥ [Bg. 7.15]. Why he has done mischievous activities, mūḍha? The only test is, if one is not Kṛṣṇa conscious, whatever he does it is all mischievous. So immediately go and you'll see.
Prabhupāda: Mm. Yes, invite them. Invite them. (Hindi)
Devotee: This lady is coming from Germany.
Prabhupāda: Oh. Indian lady?
Prabhupāda: (Hindi conversation with lady) You cannot do anything. Ultimately they will say no and for this they are paying (indistinct). (Hindi with lady) Very nice. You have got the desire and Kṛṣṇa will fulfill your desire. (Hindi) Then with practice, then it becomes successful. Ādau śraddhā tato sādhu-saṅgo 'tha bhajana-kriyā. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness can be increased by gradual process. First thing, just like you have got faith, it is nice thing. This is śraddhā. Then to associate with persons who are already engaged in this business, sādhu-saṅga [Cc. Madhya 22.83]. That is called sādhu-saṅga. Ādau śraddhā tato, and then act like them, bhajana-kriyā. Simply theoretical will not help.
Indian Lady: (more Hindi conversation with S.P.)
Prabhupāda: So where you have given her place, Girirāja?
Girirāja: In the, one of the guest rooms.
Prabhupāda: That's all right. (pause) Biragati, biranadi (?). [break] ...to me. (indistinct) Not personally, but the daughter of the, wife of the, the mother of the, that is right position. Just like Kunti, she was the mother of Vir, Arjuna's mother. Mm.
Indian Lady: Should I read what I have written?
Prabhupāda: Mm, hm.
Indian Lady: (reads a paper praising the Hare Kṛṣṇa movement and describing activities of groups against the movement-much of this indistinct)
Prabhupāda: Actually you have seen in our Māyāpura there is no question Hindu, Muslim, everyone takes prasādam. There is no question.
Indian Lady: (continues reading)
Prabhupāda: (Hindi) It is great, fortunate that you are trying to understand. So if you try to understand this philosophy, you understand it is not the so-called religion, it is a culture for benefit of the whole human society, para-upakāra. That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's mission, para-upakāra. Because people are in the darkness of knowledge, to enlighten them, to come to the light, that is Vedic injunction, tamasi mā jyotir gamaḥ. Do not remain in darkness, come to the light. So our attempt is to bring these people who are kept in different types of, or different standards of darkness, to bring them to light. This is our position. It is not sectarian. Not for the Hindus, not for the Indians, but it is meant for the whole human society. Kṛṣṇa never said that He's Hindu or He's Indian. He says, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya sambhavanti mūrtayaḥ tāsāṁ mahad yonir brahma ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā [Bg. 14.4]. He never says that "I am for the Hindu or for the Indians." Sarva-yoniṣu. There are 8,400,000 species of different types of life. That is the fact, bījo 'haṁ sarva-bhūtānām [Bg 7.10]. Wherefrom the life is coming? These rascals, they do not understand what is actual science, how things are going on, how the laws of nature is working. Simply superficially, "We have got some ideas." Fundamentally they have no knowledge. So we are trying to enlighten them with our teeny effort. Although it is single-handed, still it is genuine. If you kindly try to understand the whole philosophy—the first thing is, andhā yathāndair upanīyamānā, the whole world is now being conducted by blind leaders. And they're keeping people in darkness because they are themselves in darkness. They do not know what is light. So they do not know what is the object of life, what is the destination of life. Simply in blind faith they have created so many isms. It is simply misleading. It is little difficult to understand that we are simply leading others... That's a fact, that's a fact. If you impersonally try to understand this philosophy that every man is kept in the darkness of a different stamp, different ism. That is the first instruction of Bhagavad-gītā, tathā dehāntara-prāptir, after death you have to change your body. Then where is your ism? Whole ism changed. That they do not understand. They're so much in darkness, mūḍha. "Today I am very great national leader, my country, my..." So on, so on. And tomorrow by the laws of nature if I become a dog in Europe, then where is my nationalism? And it is possible. What is called? Because you are under nature's law, you are not independent. Therefore they have given up this idea that there is life after death. This is their first ignorance. Everyone is thinking that this life is everything for twenty years or thirty years or hundred years-eat, drink, be merry, enjoy then everything is finished. The whole Russian people, they think like that. Not whole, I don't, I cannot say but the learned, their learned professors, they think like that. The life is ended after this body. So our people also, our these politicians, they also think like that. So this is the platform of ignorance. And people are so much (indistinct), born into this ignorance. It is very, very difficult to raise them from this ignorance. This is our task. The first business is to convince him that "Your life continues." Na hanyate hanyamāne śarīre [Bg. 2.20]. But it is very difficult for the modern man to understand. They have been so poorly educated that it is very difficult. But this is the first beginning of knowledge and if we are in the conception that "I am this body and the body is everything," then we are no better that the cats and dogs. So this is a movement to raise people from the platform of cats' and dogs' life. It is little difficult but we have to do it. That is our mission, Caitanya Mahāprabhu, para-upakāra. They're living like cats and dogs, do something good for them so that they may live like actual human beings. This is our... So you kindly stay here for some days, read our books and if there is any question, doubt, I shall be very glad to enlighten you. But this is the fact, the whole world is misguided by the rascal leaders, I must say that. Andhā, andhā is the last word of rascaldom, andhā yathāndair upanīyamānā. If I say (to) somebody, "You are rascal." There is maybe, partially he may be intelligent. But when we say andhā, andhā, then his life is... He cannot see anything. So that is the description given by Bhāgavatam, na te viduḥ svārtha-gatiṁ hi viṣṇuṁ durāśayā [SB 7.5.31]. They are durāśayā, hopelessly hopeful, trying to adjust things—bahir-artha-māninaḥ—by external energy. Simply wasting time, it cannot be. This is the position. So we are trying little bit and if you help us, it is very kind of you. Everyone should help this movement, prāṇair arthair virair arcair, by sacrificing life, artha money, and intelligence. So you have moved amongst the higher circle, what is the opinion of our government men about this movement?
Devotee: What is it our government people think about our movement?
Indian Lady: (indistinct) I am not talk about now (indistinct) yesterday night. In Europe I have talked with my consulate-general (indistinct) I am helpless, you must go to India and talk about it and for this in India. It is very difficult here. Because our relation is not good to West Germany.
Prabhupāda: They're so afraid they cannot say the truth.
Indian Lady: Their people don't like us. (indistinct-man says something to Prabhupāda in background)
Prabhupāda: Oh, where is he? Good. Everything is bad.
Indian Lady: German people don't like us.
Prabhupāda: Why we are liked? We are poor, who will like us? Poor man is never liked, especially in the western countries. They hate. And not only there, our Canakya Paṇḍita also says, daridra-doṣa guṇarāśī nāśī, if you are poor then all your qualities are gone.
Dr. Patel: What is the disease?
Prabhupāda: So materially wherever I go, there any gentleman I meet, "Oh, you are coming from India, very poor (indistinct)." This is our (indistinct). Not now, fifty years ago in 1930's when one of my godbrothers, one or two they went to London, Lady Willingdon, she was speaking that "You people come here from India and we give you degrees and you earn your livelihood in India. So what you have come to teach us?" That's a fact. We go to England to take the degrees, MRCT, FRCA, barrister or so on, so on, so on.
Indian Lady: (indistinct) with Dr. Khoranna, he has got Nobel prize in America (indistinct). The Indian government (indistinct). And after that...
Prabhupāda: American Nobel prize?
Dr. Patel: (indistinct) ...he was an active friend of mine, Dr. Khoranna who has got (indistinct), a very intelligent fellow, extremely intelligent.
Prabhupāda: No, no, I mean to say, Nobel prize is given from...
Dr. Patel: He migrated to America. He married a (indistinct) girl, and he made a original discovery in genetic code, and then he got a Nobel prize. These people did not (indistinct).
Indian Lady: (Hindi)
Dr. Patel: He's very kind man.
Prabhupāda: Kind man, so we are not also bad man.
Dr. Patel: No, no, I don't mean that. (laughter)
Prabhupāda: The thing is that this nationalism is... We have to go beyond that. Actually they're happening, these boys, they're not thinking in terms of nationalism. Otherwise he had no business to come to me and to start this. We are in a different platform, Kṛṣṇa-ism. That is our platform. So we shall go on.
Indian man: (indistinct) [break]
Prabhupāda: Kṛṣṇa is within you. If you actually want to serve Kṛṣṇa, he'll give you intelligence. He says personally, dadāmi buddhi-yogaṁ tam. What kind of?—yena mām upayānti te. So it is automatically available if you are sincerely desiring to serve Kṛṣṇa. Na toṣana chādiyā varṇāśrama-dharma. [break]
Girirāja: So today... Actually I was thinking of phoning his wife because she was not well or one of our ladies could call her and then if she's still not well they could go and visit her. And if she is well, they could invite her that if she wants to come then she'll bring him.
Prabhupāda: Mm. Don't bother. But as an etiquette (indistinct).
Girirāja: Mr. Mota telephoned to say that that other man who was here...
Girirāja: No, the Kapoor, the Punjabi man.
Prabhupāda: That one is from (indistinct).
Girirāja: Yes, he was not with Mota.
Prabhupāda: Whose daughter, she called.
Girirāja: Yes. So Mota says that he's a very rich man and that man who came, we should approach his older brother and he says that they can give a very big donation. And they can introduce us to other Punjabis.
Prabhupāda: Mm. So whatever you sanction, it will not be good.
Girirāja: Well, we had a confrontation that they want to break the condition that we have to hand over these ten feet. So I said that this is a separate issue and one thing had nothing to do with the other. So, actually they have accepted all of our arguments, what is boils down is that Mantrey is pressing them and they must, you know, why they are letting this slide by. So they say they want something to reply to him so we have to write a letter explaining our case. And...
Prabhupāda: Mantrey is an all-in-all.
Girirāja: He's not all-in-all, but he can make their life miserable. Because what he does is, if they don't satisfy him so he raises the issue of the corporation. He says this man is not doing his work properly, he should be transferred. So...
Prabhupāda: What he is for them?
Girirāja: He is their municipal councillor. He is the representative for this area in the municipal corporation, elected. So actually this came up before and at that time we met the municipal commissioner that they are trying to put this condition. So he agreed that this should be a, you know, decided by the court or by some third party and not, he will not do anything to change the status quo by forcing us. So we have to put that in the letter. And [break] ...hitch. Not a hitch exactly but there's this urban land ceiling that anyone who has more than 500 square yards property, that comes under the ceiling. So we are exempt because we are a charitable trust and apart from that, in the final plan, most of the land will be built up, it won't be vacant. But in order to get the sanction, we have to get either an N.O.C. (No Objection Certificate) that we are exempt from the ceiling or an exemption to get the N.O.C. So we have to meet some higher official. So I have to finalise it but I'm supposed to contact the architect and we have to go and see about this. Actually the management is so bad there that they have made this requirement that any new building, you have to get N.O.C. regarding the land ceiling. But so far they have not given one N.O.C. for land ceiling because they are not yet decided what is the policy to give the N.O.C. So they simply are piling up the applications until they decide their policy. So first we will try to get exemption that we don't require this N.O.C. Then if we fail in that then I suppose we have to meet the minister and ask him to give us the N.O.C.
Prabhupāda: So why not meet the minister?
Prabhupāda: Why not meet the minister?
Girirāja: Yes. We've met him once before because he's... The municipality is under him. So when we met the Chief Minister to get these things straightened out, so at that time he spoke to this Urban Affairs Minister. So he knows us, he's quite intelligent personally. But I think if... First we'll meet the city engineer, he's next to the commissioner and just say that we don't want to have to get this N.O.C. So if he removes that condition then the whole problem is solved. Do you think we should go straight to the minister?
Girirāja: Oh, yes, completely. Their whole office, the papers are piled to the ceiling and people just waste hours (indistinct).
Prabhupāda: If there is ceiling, then we can divide the land amongst ourselves.
Girirāja: But that also they have blocked in the sense that in order to sell now that the ceiling is there, in order to sell your land you have to get another N.O.C. to sell it.
Prabhupāda: Then, I cannot sell, I cannot use it.
Girirāja: That's what I'm saying. They make it impossible. They say they want the country to develop quickly but they make it impossible to develop.
Prabhupāda: Today I think fasting.
Indian Lady: Fasting.
Prabhupāda: I have no appetite, I could not eat even breakfast.
Indian Lady: So I will be here if you want something, you can call for me.
Prabhupāda: Mm. For the time being, no appetite. You can soak some little chipped rice in water.
Indian Lady: Which?
Devotee: Chipped rice.
Prabhupāda: (indistinct) in water. Soak it. Maybe if I feel hungry I shall take it. This is the condition of material world, simply harassing, this all these big, big government (indistinct). How to harass. The more you learn this art, how to harass, you become a big politician. Not para-upakāra. Mandāḥ sumanda matayo manda-bhāgyā hy upadrutāḥ [SB 1.1.10]. Upadrutāḥ, disturbing. Adhibautika, one living entity is harassing another living entity, killing. So I have decided to construct a temple in Bhuvaneśvara. What do you think, shall I attempt?
Girirāja: Of course that is our business to construct temples.
Prabhupāda: Yes. Temple (indistinct). Temple means preaching center. This Gurukula I have made for temple (indistinct) center. Now they have made it but that (indistinct). Purpose is, that whole world in the neophyte stage, they will (indistinct), man-manā bhava mad..., think of Kṛṣṇa, offering obeisances, offer (indistinct) from the persons maintaining the temple (indistinct). Therefore they do not like that a temple should be constructed, it is waste of... (indistinct) ...must be engaged to work hard, produce money and enjoy sense gratification. Hog civilization. We are restricting that "Don't work hard like hog and dog or animals, just satisfy your minimal necessities of life, save time and (indistinct) spiritual understanding. This is our mission. Their mission is, "What is this nonsense, spiritual understanding? Simply some sentiment, waste of time. Produce, enjoy, invent so many things for sense gratification." Western civilization. And this is very attractive to the rākṣasa class. Eat, drink, be merry and enjoy. This is the rākṣasa mentality. As soon as there is television, or similar invention, they become very much enthused. They purchase and sitting down, they waste their time. I have seen in America the old man of family, one dog, one television, simply wasting time. And 50 cents for eat. How they are wasting the valuable human life. How they are kept in the darkness. This is life. I have seen television. All some fictitious stories. Here, trained position. They have manufactured one big hammer and training strongly and these rogues they are sending their hammer to train and as soon as the hammer... smashed. They want to see. One man kept ferocious dogs and one girl (indistinct) the dog is chasing and the girl is screaming (indistinct) so many (indistinct). You know this?
Devotee: There are millions...
Prabhupāda: Shooting, one man. (laughter) At least 50 cents stories (indistinct).
Girirāja: They could see stories of Kṛṣṇa.
Prabhupāda: Mm? Mythology.
Girirāja: That is mythology.
Prabhupāda: And here is fact. So one side is: people are no more interested. (indistinct). This is our business. I think western countries the young men, they're joining this successfully. Adānta gobhir viśataṁ tamisraṁ punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām [SB 7.5.30]. (indistinct) first part. Find out this matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā. Matir na kṛṣṇe. This is our law book.
matir na kṛṣṇe parataḥ svato vā
mitho 'bhipadyeta gṛha-vratānām
adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisraṁ
punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām
"Prahlāda Mahārāja replied: Because of their uncontrolled senses, persons too addicted to materialistic life make progress toward hellish conditions and repeatedly chew that which has already chewed. Their inclinations toward Kṛṣṇa are never aroused, either by the instructions of others, by their own efforts, or by a combination of both."
Prabhupāda: Read the purport.
Devotee: In this verse the words matir na kṛṣṇe refer to devotional service rendered to Kṛṣṇa. So-called politicians, erudite scholars and philosophers who read Bhagavad-gītā try to twist some meaning from it to suit their material purposes, but their misunderstandings of Kṛṣṇa will not yield them any profit. Because such politicians, philosophers and scholars are interested in using Bhagavad-gītā as a vehicle for adjusting things materially, for them constant thought of Kṛṣṇa, or Kṛṣṇa consciousness, is impossible (matir na kṛṣṇe). As stated in Bhagavad-gītā, bhaktyā mām abhijānāti: [Bg. 18.55] only through devotional service can one understand Kṛṣṇa as He is. The so-called politicians and scholars think of Kṛṣṇa as fictitious. The politician says that his Kṛṣṇa is different from the Kṛṣṇa depicted in Bhagavad-gītā. Even though he accepts Kṛṣṇa and Rāma as the Supreme, he thinks of Rāma and Kṛṣṇa as impersonal because he has no idea of service to Kṛṣṇa. Thus his only business is punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām [SB 7.5.30]—chewing the chewed again and again. The aim of such politicians and academic scholars is to enjoy this material world with their bodily senses. Therefore it is clearly stated herein that those who are gṛha-vrata, whose only aim is to live comfortably with the body in the material world, cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. The two expressions gṛha-vrata and carvita-carvaṇānām indicate that a materialistic person tries to enjoy sense gratification in different bodily forms, life after life, but is still unsatisfied. In the name of personalism, this ism or that ism, such persons always remain attached to the materialistic way of life. As stated in Bhagavad-gītā:
"In the minds of those who are too attached to sense enjoyment and material opulence, and who are bewildered by such things, the resolute determination for devotional service to the Supreme Lord does not take place." Those who are attached to material enjoyment cannot be fixed in devotional service to the Lord. They cannot understand Bhagavān, Kṛṣṇa, or His instruction, Bhagavad-gītā. Adānta-gobhir viśatāṁ tamisram: [SB 7.5.30] their path actually leads toward hellish life. As confirmed by Rsabhādeva, mahat-sevāṁ dvāram āhur vimukteḥ: [SB 5.5.2] one must try to understand Kṛṣṇa by serving a devotee. The word mahat refers to a devotee.
mahātmānas tu māṁ pārtha
daivīṁ prakṛtim āśritāḥ
jñātvā bhūtādim avyayam
"O son of Prtha, those who are not deluded, the great souls, are under the protection of the divine nature. They are fully engaged in devotional service because they know Me as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, original and inexhaustible." (Bg. 9.13) A mahātmā is one who is constantly engaged in devotional service, twenty-four hours a day. As explained in the following verses, unless one adheres to such a great personality, one cannot understand Kṛṣṇa. Hiranyakasipu wanted to know where Prahlāda had gotten this Kṛṣṇa consciousness. Who had taught him? Prahlāda sarcastically replied, "My dear father, persons like you never understand Kṛṣṇa. One can understand Kṛṣṇa only by serving a mahat, a great soul. Those who try to adjust material conditions are said to be chewing the chewed. No one has been able to adjust material conditions, but life after life, generation after generation, people try and repeatedly fail. Unless one is properly trained by a mahat—a mahātmā, or unalloyed devotee of the Lord—there is no possibility of one's understanding Kṛṣṇa and His devotional service."
Prabhupāda: I have seen in San Francisco, what is that (indistinct)?
Prabhupāda: I think San Francisco. What is that park?
Girirāja: Golden Gate.
Prabhupāda: Golden Gate park.
Devotee: San Diego?
Prabhupāda: No, no, San Francisco. There is a lake. So there the ducks, the male duck is attacking the female duck, what is called? When man forcibly attacks?
Prabhupāda: Rape, the same thing. And the human life is (indistinct). This was going on. The water, the ducks, water on the (indistinct), the ducks are going on and little (indistinct) is going on. The same (indistinct) but in different way. The (indistinct) is the same, punaḥ punaś carvita-carvaṇānām [SB 7.5.30]. But according to the mentality, he is getting different body but the business is the same. Adānta-gobhir, unrestrained senses. Simply sense enjoyment. The duck is also doing this, the ant is doing this, the fly is doing this, the mosquito is doing this, the man is doing this, animal is doing this, sense enjoyment. (rest of tape very indistinct) (end)
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