January 6, 1976, Bombay
Prabhupada: ...Dialectic Spiritualism.
Dr. Patel: You have taken their word.
Prabhupada: It is not their words, but just to counter...
Dr. Patel: In fact, sir, Engels was a spiritualist, and his chela, Karl Marx, became materialist because he saw, accept poverty all round, due to the industrial revolution. He thought in that way.
Prabhupada: As if he was ordained to do it.
Dr. Patel: But, well, he felt... He was a philosopher.
Prabhupada: Such a rascal. He has moved poverty. He was in poverty-stricken...
Dr. Patel: He was extremely poor man. Yes, he died (indistinct). But that is what he thought.
Prabhupada: That means poor fund of knowledge. That's it. These rascals will never go to the... Tad-vijnanartham sa gurum evabhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. They do not know this science, these rascals. They manufacture. And we have also learned to manufacture.
Dr. Patel: No, he did only on the Western thought.
Prabhupada: No, no, Western philosophy... We have learned this art, manufacturing. Just like Vinoba Bhave's has proposed, "I want mukti not in the traditional way." He'll manufacture his own way. This is his intelligence after eighty-two years or eighty-one years. "Not in the traditional, not in the religious way." Just see. He's still hovering in darkness, and he's going to get mukti. This is the position.
Trivikrama: Prabhupada has said that the Russian intelligence and Indian culture.
Dr. Patel: Sir, I may tell you. Russians are not that intelligent. I have very poor regard for the Russian intelligence. Intelligence is not with Russians that much.
Prabhupada: No. No, no, all Europeans, they're very intelligent.
Dr. Patel: Especially Germans.
Prabhupada: They're very intelligent. Germans are extraordinarily...
Indian man: The Aryan races are intelligent, and in Russia there is a mixture...
Prabhupada: They are Aryans. They are Aryans.
Dr. Patel: Mixture, Aryan as well as the yellow race.
Prabhupada: Mixture everywhere now.
Dr. Patel: No, here... I mean, so far as the Eastern European countries, they are more or less pure. They are mixed in a way.
Prabhupada: Anyway, we are not on that platform, we or anyone. We think we are on the... Everyone in the material platform, more or less, they are rascals, here or there. The Bengali is guhyera epi han opi. You know this? Stool, this side or that side, Eastern side or Western side, it is, after all, stool. (laughs) If somebody says, "Eastern side of the stool is very good," that is his foolishness.
Dr. Patel: After the scattering of these Aryans, they have come different place. How is it that we brought all the cultural heritage in north, east and western countries? They must have also taken. But because they have to live very hard life, they are in cold countries...
Prabhupada: And what do you mean by "we"? We are not...
Dr. Patel: "We" means our forefathers.
Prabhupada: Forefathers may be saintly person, but we are not. Why do you say "we"?
Dr. Patel: "We" means the descendants of our forefathers.
Prabhupada: My father might have been very rich man, but I am a poverty-stricken man, loitering in the street. Why say "we"?
Dr. Patel: "We" means these Aryans in India, they brought all the Vedas and Vedic culture with them. They must have taken it in.
Prabhupada: That's all right. One who is speaking, he is not in Vedic culture. That is the difficulty.
Dr. Patel: I talk of these historical facts, sir. Historically, Eastern European races are just our cousin. I mean the Indian races. But still, they have not been able to take the...
Prabhupada: This, falsely to become proud: "We... We have done." What I am at the present? That is to be taken, not that... Now in Bengal... "Fourteen generations before my father took ghee, and I have got a smell." (laughs) What is that? Whether you are eating ghee or not, that is talk, not that "Fourteen generations before my father and forefathers ate ghee, and I have got the smell here." (laughs)
Dr. Patel: No, we talk of Vedic culture, sir.
Prabhupada: Vedic culture is all right now. There is no question of "we" or "you."
Dr. Patel: But why it is not with them?
Prabhupada: Why it is not with you? First of all say why you are challenging them? (laughter) First of all challenge yourself.
Dr. Patel: (laughing) That's right. But they have not, their forefathers have got. We have at least with our forefathers.
Prabhupada: No, no, their forefathers are the Aryans, the same forefathers, your forefathers.
Dr. Patel: They're Aryans, but they did not take the Vedic culture with them.
Prabhupada: They did not take. You are not taking. That's the same thing.
Dr. Patel: Presently the whole world is...
Prabhupada: That's all. That is our concern, how the world is misdirected. That we are challenging, this Krsna consciousness. It is not that "East," "West," "you," "I." Everyone is a victim. Bhagavata says, prayena kalau asmin yuga-jana: "In this age everyone is condemned." It doesn't say that "These Eastern, Western..." Everyone is condemned. Kalau asmin yuga-jana. That is impartial. (to Mahamsa:) How are you? Everything is all right?
Mahamsa: Yes, Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: So Badruka is the same?
Mahamsa: He came yesterday in the evening. I could not see him.
Prabhupada: So, it is not yet registered?
Mahamsa: No. As soon as I get back today, it will be registered. He came just yesterday in the evening.
Prabhupada: So, what other news?
Mahamsa: We are just waiting to get some water facilities made so that we can start doing something in the meantime.
Prabhupada: The water is not yet there?
Mahamsa: One building is finished. Now the pump has to be gotten for that. The second building, we didn't have... I wasn't over there. I had gone to South India to collect some money. And then, when I came back, the people had gone away because there was no money to be paid to them.
Prabhupada: Why? I have already transferred?
Mahamsa: That came just five days back. So now we'll be working on it full swing because we have some money.
Prabhupada: So the bank has transferred?
Mahamsa: Yes, Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: So the prospect is nice?
Mahamsa: Oh, yes.
Prabhupada: People are coming?
Mahamsa: When I came... When I went to the South, to down South, there was about 270 people.
Mahamsa: Yes. But then, when I returned, there was only fifty people.
Mahamsa: Because the prasadam quantity was cut down.
Prabhupada: Why cut down?
Mahamsa: I don't know.
Prabhupada: So you don't know. Then who knows?
Mahamsa: Well, Tejas and Hamsaduta, they said to cut down the prasadam quantity.
Prabhupada: These nonsense ideas, why you make without asking? I am paying money. Why it should be cut down? Don't do anything nonsensical. This should be increased. I shall pay. Why you are anxious? So?
Mahamsa: Now when I get back I'm going to work on it and see that at least...
Prabhupada: They should come. Every evening they should come, as many as possible. Give them prasadam. Our mission is to induce them to chant and take prasadam. Then, next stage, if they want to work with us, it is welcome. If not, we shall go on giving prasadam and induce them to chant. This is our mission.
Mahamsa: The village people are very happy.
Mahamsa: The stone-cutting has also started.
Prabhupada: Ah, that's nice.
Mahamsa: They're doing very well.
Prabhupada: Here we're inviting everyone, "Come here. Live here. Take prasadam and chant. Don't drink tea. That's all." (chuckles) That is... Hare Krsna.
Trivikrama: "No tea?"
Prabhupada: No tea, no cigarette. That is their disease. No tea, no... Don't stop prasadam. Never. Increase. I shall beg and supply you money. Don't worry. But don't waste it. Simply you take money and utilize it for preaching. My only anxiety is that don't be extravagant. Otherwise you take money and spend it.
Mahamsa: Don't be extravagant.
Prabhupada: You should always know that hard-earned money is... By working at night I am producing book, and they're working there hard, selling the books, and money is coming in that way. So either he or me, mine or yours, it is hard-earned money. It is not easily coming. And therefore we should be cautious. But there is no question of curtailing. There is no question.
Mahamsa: Now we are in the process of making a brochure so that we can present to trusts and foundations for bigger donations for the farm project.
Prabhupada: That's nice. They have amassed money. Let them spend for this village organization. This is real Gandhi's program. He wanted this village organization. But because they manufactured their own way, it was not successful. But if we follow this principle, it will be successful, without any doubt. These big, big asrama... Gandhi's asrama is vacant. No. They are getting money, but they have no such program.
Dr. Patel: (indistinct)
Prabhupada: It must be, because there is no solid program. There is no solid program, simply imagination.
Dr. Patel: No. Because the followers...
Prabhupada: How there will be followers? If there is some program, then there will be followers.
Dr. Patel: He wanted to defend the commoners. He wanted to defend the order (indistinct). But he unfortunately died.
Prabhupada: Everyone will die. But (Hindi). If you do something tangible, then you will live. And if you do something fictitious, then with your death everything is gone. (Hindi) But here the whole population is duskrti. They are krti, but they are doing something wrong: duskrti. How? Prapanna prapa jante mam. This is a miscon..., mischievous activity. Because he has not surrendered to Krsna, whatever he has done, it is all mischievous. Krsna says, na mam duskrtino mudhah [Bg. 7.15]. Why he has done mischievous activities, mudha? The only test is, if one is not Krsna conscious, whatever he does it is all mischievous. So immediately go and you'll see.
Prabhupada: Mm. Yes, invite them. Invite them. (Hindi)
Devotee: This lady is coming from Germany.
Prabhupada: Oh. Indian lady?
Prabhupada: (Hindi conversation with lady) You cannot do anything. Ultimately they will say no and for this they are paying (indistinct). (Hindi with lady) Very nice. You have got the desire and Krsna will fulfill your desire. (Hindi) Then with practice, then it becomes successful. Adau sraddha tato sadhu-sango 'tha bhajana-kriya. This Krsna consciousness can be increased by gradual process. First thing, just like you have got faith, it is nice thing. This is sraddha. Then to associate with persons who are already engaged in this business, sadhu-sanga [Cc. Madhya 22.83]. That is called sadhu-sanga. Adau sraddha tato, and then act like them, bhajana-kriya. Simply theoretical will not help.
Indian Lady: (more Hindi conversation with S.P.)
Prabhupada: So where you have given her place, Giriraja?
Giriraja: In the, one of the guest rooms.
Prabhupada: That's all right. (pause) Biragati, biranadi (?). [break] ...to me. (indistinct) Not personally, but the daughter of the, wife of the, the mother of the, that is right position. Just like Kunti, she was the mother of Vir, Arjuna's mother. Mm.
Indian Lady: Should I read what I have written?
Prabhupada: Mm, hm.
Indian Lady: (reads a paper praising the Hare Krsna movement and describing activities of groups against the movement-much of this indistinct)
Prabhupada: Actually you have seen in our Mayapura there is no question Hindu, Muslim, everyone takes prasadam. There is no question.
Indian Lady: (continues reading)
Prabhupada: (Hindi) It is great, fortunate that you are trying to understand. So if you try to understand this philosophy, you understand it is not the so-called religion, it is a culture for benefit of the whole human society, para-upakara. That is Caitanya Mahaprabhu's mission, para-upakara. Because people are in the darkness of knowledge, to enlighten them, to come to the light, that is Vedic injunction, tamasi ma jyotir gamah. Do not remain in darkness, come to the light. So our attempt is to bring these people who are kept in different types of, or different standards of darkness, to bring them to light. This is our position. It is not sectarian. Not for the Hindus, not for the Indians, but it is meant for the whole human society. Krsna never said that He's Hindu or He's Indian. He says, sarva-yonisu kaunteya sambhavanti murtayah tasam mahad yonir brahma aham bija-pradah pita [Bg. 14.4]. He never says that "I am for the Hindu or for the Indians." Sarva-yonisu. There are 8,400,000 species of different types of life. That is the fact, bijo 'ham sarva-bhutanam [Bg 7.10]. Wherefrom the life is coming? These rascals, they do not understand what is actual science, how things are going on, how the laws of nature is working. Simply superficially, "We have got some ideas." Fundamentally they have no knowledge. So we are trying to enlighten them with our teeny effort. Although it is single-handed, still it is genuine. If you kindly try to understand the whole philosophy—the first thing is, andha yathandair upaniyamana, the whole world is now being conducted by blind leaders. And they're keeping people in darkness because they are themselves in darkness. They do not know what is light. So they do not know what is the object of life, what is the destination of life. Simply in blind faith they have created so many isms. It is simply misleading. It is little difficult to understand that we are simply leading others... That's a fact, that's a fact. If you impersonally try to understand this philosophy that every man is kept in the darkness of a different stamp, different ism. That is the first instruction of Bhagavad-gita, tatha dehantara-praptir, after death you have to change your body. Then where is your ism? Whole ism changed. That they do not understand. They're so much in darkness, mudha. "Today I am very great national leader, my country, my..." So on, so on. And tomorrow by the laws of nature if I become a dog in Europe, then where is my nationalism? And it is possible. What is called? Because you are under nature's law, you are not independent. Therefore they have given up this idea that there is life after death. This is their first ignorance. Everyone is thinking that this life is everything for twenty years or thirty years or hundred years-eat, drink, be merry, enjoy then everything is finished. The whole Russian people, they think like that. Not whole, I don't, I cannot say but the learned, their learned professors, they think like that. The life is ended after this body. So our people also, our these politicians, they also think like that. So this is the platform of ignorance. And people are so much (indistinct), born into this ignorance. It is very, very difficult to raise them from this ignorance. This is our task. The first business is to convince him that "Your life continues." Na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. But it is very difficult for the modern man to understand. They have been so poorly educated that it is very difficult. But this is the first beginning of knowledge and if we are in the conception that "I am this body and the body is everything," then we are no better that the cats and dogs. So this is a movement to raise people from the platform of cats' and dogs' life. It is little difficult but we have to do it. That is our mission, Caitanya Mahaprabhu, para-upakara. They're living like cats and dogs, do something good for them so that they may live like actual human beings. This is our... So you kindly stay here for some days, read our books and if there is any question, doubt, I shall be very glad to enlighten you. But this is the fact, the whole world is misguided by the rascal leaders, I must say that. Andha, andha is the last word of rascaldom, andha yathandair upaniyamana. If I say (to) somebody, "You are rascal." There is maybe, partially he may be intelligent. But when we say andha, andha, then his life is... He cannot see anything. So that is the description given by Bhagavatam, na te viduh svartha-gatim hi visnum durasaya [SB 7.5.31]. They are durasaya, hopelessly hopeful, trying to adjust things—bahir-artha-maninah—by external energy. Simply wasting time, it cannot be. This is the position. So we are trying little bit and if you help us, it is very kind of you. Everyone should help this movement, pranair arthair virair arcair, by sacrificing life, artha money, and intelligence. So you have moved amongst the higher circle, what is the opinion of our government men about this movement?
Devotee: What is it our government people think about our movement?
Indian Lady: (indistinct) I am not talk about now (indistinct) yesterday night. In Europe I have talked with my consulate-general (indistinct) I am helpless, you must go to India and talk about it and for this in India. It is very difficult here. Because our relation is not good to West Germany.
Prabhupada: They're so afraid they cannot say the truth.
Indian Lady: Their people don't like us. (indistinct-man says something to Prabhupada in background)
Prabhupada: Oh, where is he? Good. Everything is bad.
Indian Lady: German people don't like us.
Prabhupada: Why we are liked? We are poor, who will like us? Poor man is never liked, especially in the western countries. They hate. And not only there, our Canakya Pandita also says, daridra-dosa gunarasi nasi, if you are poor then all your qualities are gone.
Dr. Patel: What is the disease?
Prabhupada: So materially wherever I go, there any gentleman I meet, "Oh, you are coming from India, very poor (indistinct)." This is our (indistinct). Not now, fifty years ago in 1930's when one of my godbrothers, one or two they went to London, Lady Willingdon, she was speaking that "You people come here from India and we give you degrees and you earn your livelihood in India. So what you have come to teach us?" That's a fact. We go to England to take the degrees, MRCT, FRCA, barrister or so on, so on, so on.
Indian Lady: (indistinct) with Dr. Khoranna, he has got Nobel prize in America (indistinct). The Indian government (indistinct). And after that...
Prabhupada: American Nobel prize?
Dr. Patel: (indistinct) ...he was an active friend of mine, Dr. Khoranna who has got (indistinct), a very intelligent fellow, extremely intelligent.
Prabhupada: No, no, I mean to say, Nobel prize is given from...
Dr. Patel: He migrated to America. He married a (indistinct) girl, and he made a original discovery in genetic code, and then he got a Nobel prize. These people did not (indistinct).
Indian Lady: (Hindi)
Dr. Patel: He's very kind man.
Prabhupada: Kind man, so we are not also bad man.
Dr. Patel: No, no, I don't mean that. (laughter)
Prabhupada: The thing is that this nationalism is... We have to go beyond that. Actually they're happening, these boys, they're not thinking in terms of nationalism. Otherwise he had no business to come to me and to start this. We are in a different platform, Krsna-ism. That is our platform. So we shall go on.
Indian man: (indistinct) [break]
Prabhupada: Krsna is within you. If you actually want to serve Krsna, he'll give you intelligence. He says personally, dadami buddhi-yogam tam. What kind of?—yena mam upayanti te. So it is automatically available if you are sincerely desiring to serve Krsna. Na tosana chadiya varnasrama-dharma. [break]
Giriraja: So today... Actually I was thinking of phoning his wife because she was not well or one of our ladies could call her and then if she's still not well they could go and visit her. And if she is well, they could invite her that if she wants to come then she'll bring him.
Prabhupada: Mm. Don't bother. But as an etiquette (indistinct).
Giriraja: Mr. Mota telephoned to say that that other man who was here...
Giriraja: No, the Kapoor, the Punjabi man.
Prabhupada: That one is from (indistinct).
Giriraja: Yes, he was not with Mota.
Prabhupada: Whose daughter, she called.
Giriraja: Yes. So Mota says that he's a very rich man and that man who came, we should approach his older brother and he says that they can give a very big donation. And they can introduce us to other Punjabis.
Prabhupada: Mm. So whatever you sanction, it will not be good.
Giriraja: Well, we had a confrontation that they want to break the condition that we have to hand over these ten feet. So I said that this is a separate issue and one thing had nothing to do with the other. So, actually they have accepted all of our arguments, what is boils down is that Mantrey is pressing them and they must, you know, why they are letting this slide by. So they say they want something to reply to him so we have to write a letter explaining our case. And...
Prabhupada: Mantrey is an all-in-all.
Giriraja: He's not all-in-all, but he can make their life miserable. Because what he does is, if they don't satisfy him so he raises the issue of the corporation. He says this man is not doing his work properly, he should be transferred. So...
Prabhupada: What he is for them?
Giriraja: He is their municipal councillor. He is the representative for this area in the municipal corporation, elected. So actually this came up before and at that time we met the municipal commissioner that they are trying to put this condition. So he agreed that this should be a, you know, decided by the court or by some third party and not, he will not do anything to change the status quo by forcing us. So we have to put that in the letter. And [break] ...hitch. Not a hitch exactly but there's this urban land ceiling that anyone who has more than 500 square yards property, that comes under the ceiling. So we are exempt because we are a charitable trust and apart from that, in the final plan, most of the land will be built up, it won't be vacant. But in order to get the sanction, we have to get either an N.O.C. (No Objection Certificate) that we are exempt from the ceiling or an exemption to get the N.O.C. So we have to meet some higher official. So I have to finalise it but I'm supposed to contact the architect and we have to go and see about this. Actually the management is so bad there that they have made this requirement that any new building, you have to get N.O.C. regarding the land ceiling. But so far they have not given one N.O.C. for land ceiling because they are not yet decided what is the policy to give the N.O.C. So they simply are piling up the applications until they decide their policy. So first we will try to get exemption that we don't require this N.O.C. Then if we fail in that then I suppose we have to meet the minister and ask him to give us the N.O.C.
Prabhupada: So why not meet the minister?
Prabhupada: Why not meet the minister?
Giriraja: Yes. We've met him once before because he's... The municipality is under him. So when we met the Chief Minister to get these things straightened out, so at that time he spoke to this Urban Affairs Minister. So he knows us, he's quite intelligent personally. But I think if... First we'll meet the city engineer, he's next to the commissioner and just say that we don't want to have to get this N.O.C. So if he removes that condition then the whole problem is solved. Do you think we should go straight to the minister?
Giriraja: Oh, yes, completely. Their whole office, the papers are piled to the ceiling and people just waste hours (indistinct).
Prabhupada: If there is ceiling, then we can divide the land amongst ourselves.
Giriraja: But that also they have blocked in the sense that in order to sell now that the ceiling is there, in order to sell your land you have to get another N.O.C. to sell it.
Prabhupada: Then, I cannot sell, I cannot use it.
Giriraja: That's what I'm saying. They make it impossible. They say they want the country to develop quickly but they make it impossible to develop.
Prabhupada: Today I think fasting.
Indian Lady: Fasting.
Prabhupada: I have no appetite, I could not eat even breakfast.
Indian Lady: So I will be here if you want something, you can call for me.
Prabhupada: Mm. For the time being, no appetite. You can soak some little chipped rice in water.
Indian Lady: Which?
Devotee: Chipped rice.
Prabhupada: (indistinct) in water. Soak it. Maybe if I feel hungry I shall take it. This is the condition of material world, simply harassing, this all these big, big government (indistinct). How to harass. The more you learn this art, how to harass, you become a big politician. Not para-upakara. Mandah sumanda matayo manda-bhagya hy upadrutah [SB 1.1.10]. Upadrutah, disturbing. Adhibautika, one living entity is harassing another living entity, killing. So I have decided to construct a temple in Bhuvanesvara. What do you think, shall I attempt?
Giriraja: Of course that is our business to construct temples.
Prabhupada: Yes. Temple (indistinct). Temple means preaching center. This Gurukula I have made for temple (indistinct) center. Now they have made it but that (indistinct). Purpose is, that whole world in the neophyte stage, they will (indistinct), man-mana bhava mad..., think of Krsna, offering obeisances, offer (indistinct) from the persons maintaining the temple (indistinct). Therefore they do not like that a temple should be constructed, it is waste of... (indistinct) ...must be engaged to work hard, produce money and enjoy sense gratification. Hog civilization. We are restricting that "Don't work hard like hog and dog or animals, just satisfy your minimal necessities of life, save time and (indistinct) spiritual understanding. This is our mission. Their mission is, "What is this nonsense, spiritual understanding? Simply some sentiment, waste of time. Produce, enjoy, invent so many things for sense gratification." Western civilization. And this is very attractive to the raksasa class. Eat, drink, be merry and enjoy. This is the raksasa mentality. As soon as there is television, or similar invention, they become very much enthused. They purchase and sitting down, they waste their time. I have seen in America the old man of family, one dog, one television, simply wasting time. And 50 cents for eat. How they are wasting the valuable human life. How they are kept in the darkness. This is life. I have seen television. All some fictitious stories. Here, trained position. They have manufactured one big hammer and training strongly and these rogues they are sending their hammer to train and as soon as the hammer... smashed. They want to see. One man kept ferocious dogs and one girl (indistinct) the dog is chasing and the girl is screaming (indistinct) so many (indistinct). You know this?
Devotee: There are millions...
Prabhupada: Shooting, one man. (laughter) At least 50 cents stories (indistinct).
Giriraja: They could see stories of Krsna.
Prabhupada: Mm? Mythology.
Giriraja: That is mythology.
Prabhupada: And here is fact. So one side is: people are no more interested. (indistinct). This is our business. I think western countries the young men, they're joining this successfully. Adanta gobhir visatam tamisram punah punas carvita-carvananam [SB 7.5.30]. (indistinct) first part. Find out this matir na krsne paratah svato va. Matir na krsne. This is our law book.
matir na krsne paratah svato va
mitho 'bhipadyeta grha-vratanam
adanta-gobhir visatam tamisram
punah punas carvita-carvananam
"Prahlada Maharaja replied: Because of their uncontrolled senses, persons too addicted to materialistic life make progress toward hellish conditions and repeatedly chew that which has already chewed. Their inclinations toward Krsna are never aroused, either by the instructions of others, by their own efforts, or by a combination of both."
Prabhupada: Read the purport.
Devotee: In this verse the words matir na krsne refer to devotional service rendered to Krsna. So-called politicians, erudite scholars and philosophers who read Bhagavad-gita try to twist some meaning from it to suit their material purposes, but their misunderstandings of Krsna will not yield them any profit. Because such politicians, philosophers and scholars are interested in using Bhagavad-gita as a vehicle for adjusting things materially, for them constant thought of Krsna, or Krsna consciousness, is impossible (matir na krsne). As stated in Bhagavad-gita, bhaktya mam abhijanati: [Bg. 18.55] only through devotional service can one understand Krsna as He is. The so-called politicians and scholars think of Krsna as fictitious. The politician says that his Krsna is different from the Krsna depicted in Bhagavad-gita. Even though he accepts Krsna and Rama as the Supreme, he thinks of Rama and Krsna as impersonal because he has no idea of service to Krsna. Thus his only business is punah punas carvita-carvananam [SB 7.5.30]—chewing the chewed again and again. The aim of such politicians and academic scholars is to enjoy this material world with their bodily senses. Therefore it is clearly stated herein that those who are grha-vrata, whose only aim is to live comfortably with the body in the material world, cannot understand Krsna. The two expressions grha-vrata and carvita-carvananam indicate that a materialistic person tries to enjoy sense gratification in different bodily forms, life after life, but is still unsatisfied. In the name of personalism, this ism or that ism, such persons always remain attached to the materialistic way of life. As stated in Bhagavad-gita:
"In the minds of those who are too attached to sense enjoyment and material opulence, and who are bewildered by such things, the resolute determination for devotional service to the Supreme Lord does not take place." Those who are attached to material enjoyment cannot be fixed in devotional service to the Lord. They cannot understand Bhagavan, Krsna, or His instruction, Bhagavad-gita. Adanta-gobhir visatam tamisram: [SB 7.5.30] their path actually leads toward hellish life. As confirmed by Rsabhadeva, mahat-sevam dvaram ahur vimukteh: [SB 5.5.2] one must try to understand Krsna by serving a devotee. The word mahat refers to a devotee.
mahatmanas tu mam partha
daivim prakrtim asritah
jnatva bhutadim avyayam
"O son of Prtha, those who are not deluded, the great souls, are under the protection of the divine nature. They are fully engaged in devotional service because they know Me as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, original and inexhaustible." (Bg. 9.13) A mahatma is one who is constantly engaged in devotional service, twenty-four hours a day. As explained in the following verses, unless one adheres to such a great personality, one cannot understand Krsna. Hiranyakasipu wanted to know where Prahlada had gotten this Krsna consciousness. Who had taught him? Prahlada sarcastically replied, "My dear father, persons like you never understand Krsna. One can understand Krsna only by serving a mahat, a great soul. Those who try to adjust material conditions are said to be chewing the chewed. No one has been able to adjust material conditions, but life after life, generation after generation, people try and repeatedly fail. Unless one is properly trained by a mahat—a mahatma, or unalloyed devotee of the Lord—there is no possibility of one's understanding Krsna and His devotional service."
Prabhupada: I have seen in San Francisco, what is that (indistinct)?
Prabhupada: I think San Francisco. What is that park?
Giriraja: Golden Gate.
Prabhupada: Golden Gate park.
Devotee: San Diego?
Prabhupada: No, no, San Francisco. There is a lake. So there the ducks, the male duck is attacking the female duck, what is called? When man forcibly attacks?
Prabhupada: Rape, the same thing. And the human life is (indistinct). This was going on. The water, the ducks, water on the (indistinct), the ducks are going on and little (indistinct) is going on. The same (indistinct) but in different way. The (indistinct) is the same, punah punas carvita-carvananam [SB 7.5.30]. But according to the mentality, he is getting different body but the business is the same. Adanta-gobhir, unrestrained senses. Simply sense enjoyment. The duck is also doing this, the ant is doing this, the fly is doing this, the mosquito is doing this, the man is doing this, animal is doing this, sense enjoyment. (rest of tape very indistinct) (end)
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