770219r2.may
Room Conversation
with Adi-kesava Swami

February 19, 1977, Mayapura
Adi-kesava: ...about the handling of this case in New York. We've been talking a lot about the general issues, but there's some specific points. Some are very practical, have come up. For instance......
Prabhupada: If you feel alone, you take some other with you whom you like.
Adi-kesava: Excuse me?
Prabhupada: If you are feeling alone, you must take somebody else, one or two, with you.
Adi-kesava: I always have Tripurari Swami with me.
Prabhupada: Gosvami is... That's all right.
Adi-kesava: We're together a lot. But one thing is, when we are fighting this case, there's a lot of legal expense, because although we are fighting the atheists in the courtroom, the lawyers who are working for us, they are also atheists, but they are the best materially. Our one lawyer, for instance, in New York, he is considered one of the best lawyers in the country. But he is charging us so much money, and although we do as much work as we can ourselves...
Prabhupada: Why we appoint lawyer?
Adi-kesava: Well, in the court there are certain things that only the lawyer may argue. We're not allowed to argue ourselves. Now, one thing is that Hari-sauri has just told me that Guru-krpa Maharaja has one man on his party who was a lawyer, a member of the bar in Australia. So I'm thinking to ask Guru-krpa Maharaja if he can come with us to New York and get admitted to the bar in New York and become our attorney.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. It will be very nice.
Adi-kesava: Because otherwise it is costing so much money.
Prabhupada: Yes. Immediately.
Adi-kesava: One other thing that is sometimes arising is that when we are arguing the case in the court...
Prabhupada: Why not get help from some Indian lawyer?
Adi-kesava: Some are willing to help us. This one man Din Agnihotri from Southern University Law School, he helped us make the basis of the case. But most of the Indian lawyers, they will not help us.
Prabhupada: Why?
Adi-kesava: They are afraid of their own status. They are worried that... Because they work in those courts every day, and this is an unpopular issue, so they are afraid because their position is not so secure, so they will not help us in that way. They will come and talk to me and give some advice, but they don't want their name in the courtroom. So sometimes this is difficult, because we need expert lawyers, but these lawyers are atheists, so sometimes they argue with me. They say, "Why are you always trying to preach in the court when we are trying to present your case?" I said, "That is my business, and I am paying you." So sometimes they are arguing, "No, if you want to win this case, then we have to argue in this way." Just like when we were... They were questioning on the stand, and our one devotee was reading Bhagavad-gita for the answers, and they were objecting, our lawyers, saying, "No, we shouldn't do this." But I was saying, "No, this is the way that they will see that we are genuine." In the end it proved it was right. The judge respected that.
Prabhupada: Yes, we must argue from our books. Therefore I say without any lawyer. Keep one lawyer to present, but our arguments should be from the books.
Adi-kesava: Right. Another thing is that this group, they are very organized.
Prabhupada: Yes. They have got money.
Adi-kesava: They have big money. I can show you in this book. We made one chart of their organization.
Hari-sauri: Page fifteen, seventeen.
Adi-kesava: It shows that they have a big organization. See, they have all these committees. And there's a lot of money involved. There are a lot of people with big money. Starting at the top, they've made a national organization. I know all these men. I've spoken to all these people. They're big demons, but they have a lot of money, so they're fighting us in all the different courts. But so far they have not taken it beyond the lower courts. When we take it to the higher courts we always win. For instance, just before I left, we took two cases to the Federal Court. Immediately we won. In one day they gave us the case. My case is in a very low court. If it goes to a high-court we will win. So we are wanting to do this, but that means again that if we were to do it, only certain lawyers can enter into the Federal Court. Not just any lawyer can argue there, because you have to have some...
Prabhupada: So you have to pay. What can be done?
Adi-kesava: So if you're willing to do that, I will do it.
Prabhupada: Hm.
Adi-kesava: I'm hoping that if we can organize some legal office for the society, then we will be able to do this more effectively.
Prabhupada: What is this?
Adi-kesava: This is that book we made for the conference, the ACLU conference in New York.
Prabhupada: Who he is?
Adi-kesava: He is one of the gundas.
Hari-sauri: In England, this one.
Adi-kesava: No, he's in...
Hari-sauri: No, in Ipswich.
Adi-kesava: Ipswich, Massachusetts.
Hari-sauri: Oh, sorry. I thought...
Adi-kesava: He is in... This is one of the men who was used to hold a devotee during a deprogramming, a big... I know this man personally. You see, already we have sometimes come to blows with them. We had one incident where a devotee was being held captive, and I went with some devotees in the middle of the night, and we had some fighting. The police stopped us. They took me away and beat me and threw me in the bushes, and then they kept the boy there, the devotee. He got away later. But men like this we have fought with several times. When it comes to these questions, I wanted to know, when there is sometimes some violence...
Prabhupada: What can be done? Violence. Beat him.
Adi-kesava: This book gives documentation of so many cases where they have used violence against our devotees. These are also...
Hari-sauri: Hired men. Gundas.
Adi-kesava: They're hired men. This is the case of one of their men who was later held for murder of another man. He was used in a deprogramming, and then later on, some months later, he murdered some man and went to jail for it. So they're very serious. It's not just philosophical arguments. There's a list here in this book we've made of the devotees in our movement who've been taken. This list is very recent, by temple. You can see in practically every temple they have taken some devotees, some who are..., most of them are back in our movement, but some who are not. But now their tactic is this legal thing. Now they get this legal conservatorship, and then even we go and save the devotee, we take them back, the police can come and arrest us. So in these cases we are finding that the only thing to do is sometimes to go and physically drag them away and hide them until the term of this thing is up. Another thing is we are giving, as we said yesterday, some asylum in other countries, like with Canada. And one thing is that the Indian government told me that they would give me asylum. The Ambassador told me that if I were to be held, the Indian government would give me asylum.
Prabhupada: That is very good.
Adi-kesava: So we were thinking that, and Bhavananda Maharaja and I were just speaking. He said one boy was in Calcutta at the visa office, and he was talking about all this business. And he said, at the visa office they also said, "Well, we could arrange to give you asylum." Just like Acyutananda got, remember, for his draft.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Adi-kesava: So I was wondering if you think this is a good tactic.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes, very good tactic.
Adi-kesava: Because it makes big news.
Prabhupada: If they give asylum in India, that is very good.
Hari-sauri: That means they can stay here, and do their devotional...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hari-sauri: ...service, and we need men here anyway.
Prabhupada: It is very good.
Adi-kesava: Because they... It is also good tactic. It makes the government not want this to happen. It makes them look bad that someone has to get political asylum from America.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hari-sauri: Because they pride themselves on freedom.
Prabhupada: They get prestigious loss, loss of prestige.
Adi-kesava: Yes. When this one girl Kulaja... She is now in Toronto, and she got...
Prabhupada: And Indian government will be convinced that we are not CIA.
Hari-sauri: If we come ask for asylum, then it's obvious.
Prabhupada: Yes, that "Americans, they are taking refuge in our law." Do it very nice. Immediately do it.
Adi-kesava: So I will investigate this in America. I think before I go back, I'm going to go see some people in Delhi.
Prabhupada: This Home Member can help in Delhi.
Hari-sauri: Gopala Krsna can give you all the names.
Prabhupada: Gopala Krsna, with Gopala Krsna, Home Member will be very glad. He's in sympathy.
Adi-kesava: I can, perhaps, stop in Delhi...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Adi-kesava: ...before I go back.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Adi-kesava: I also have met some men there now.
Prabhupada: Give me.
Adi-kesava: Sometimes... This is a book that is documenting all of their activity. One other thing is that sometimes when they are attacking us there is a good opportunity for us to differentiate ourselves, distinguish ourselves from other religions. For instance, this World Fellowship of Religions held a press conference at the United Nations. Now when they backed us, they would not back the Unification Church or the, you know, these Christians groups, because they don't like them. In general, the scholars, they favor our group. They don't favor the other groups. They don't like them. They think they are cheaters, and there has been some proof in the press. One problem is, for instance, this Mr. Moon, his...The tax commission in New York investigated him, and they took away his tax exempt status. And the Attorney General removed all of his privileges in the state of New York. So he has been made to look very bad. So rather than... There are some devotees who are saying we should stand together in an alliance with them. But every time I am asked in the press or anything, I say the same thing again, "No. We have nothing to do with them. We have nothing..." Because I am afraid that we will be dragged down with them.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Adi-kesava: They are rascals, and eventually they are going to be exposed.
Prabhupada: No.
Hari-sauri: They'll be finished for certain.
Prabhupada: We want they should be finished. (laughs)
Adi-kesava: Right. Sometimes Mukunda, for instance, was saying that we should make an alliance, and then we can have more strength. But I said, "No. When we do that... We are pure, we are genuine, and they are artificial."
Prabhupada: Yes. We should keep our purity.
Adi-kesava: So we are always to emphasize that...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Adi-kesava: ...that we are separate.
Hari-sauri: Krsna's our strength. They have no strength.
Prabhupada: Krsna will save us. But the asylum in India with the government help, that will be very nice.
Adi-kesava: So we'll investigate more in Delhi.
Prabhupada: Immediately, first duty.
Adi-kesava: Right.
Prabhupada: When Gopala is coming? He'll be able to...
Hari-sauri: Twenty-sixth or so, he's coming.
Adi-kesava: Another question is...
Prabhupada: We can take help from Indira Gandhi if we bring recommendation from the embassy.
Adi-kesava: Right. Another thing is sometimes the intellectuals, they are backing us, and the very low class people, they also like us very much because they feel... The black people feel, for instance, that we are being persecuted like they have been persecuted. But the middle class people, they are the ones who are against us, and they are by far the greatest number.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Adi-kesava: So I'm wondering what is the best way to influence them in our trial.
Prabhupada: They will not. Because our all men are coming from middle class, so they are already against us because their sons have joined. How they can be in our favor?
Adi-kesava: I don't see any way. (Prabhupada chuckles) We go to the court and the judges always say...
Prabhupada: But there are many fathers and mothers, they have... Mothers, they have appreciated our... So as far as possible, take... But because they are concerned, they have lost their children—they are against us. So you want that one... Tripurari is sufficient?
Adi-kesava: I think so. He is very good.
Prabhupada: Or anyone else. You can suggest. You can take.
Adi-kesava: If he is there, that's good.
Prabhupada: That's nice.
Adi-kesava: And Tamala Krsna Maharaja has told me you want me to carry the danda in the court also.
Prabhupada: Yes. If possible. But they will not allow. That is...
Adi-kesava: Oh, no, they'll allow.
Prabhupada: Allow?
Adi-kesava: They will allow.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Then it's all right.
Adi-kesava: I will go that way.
Prabhupada: You can explain, danda means subjugation. So the three dandas. Danda means subjugation. So kaya-manah-vakya. "We have surrendered. We have voluntarily surrendered, subjugated ourselves, under God." Kaya-manah-vakya. "Three dandas are there, and one-myself. There are four dandas within. So I am fully surrendered to Krsna, or God, with my mind, body and words. This is the meaning." You can explain. This is symbolic reminder that "I have fully surrendered to Krsna with my body, mind and words, so I must serve Him."
Adi-kesava: Sometimes in their propaganda these deprogrammers they complain about our sannyasis the most. They say, "Because they are saying everything in the material world is evil, so therefore they are the worst."
Prabhupada: Yes, it is worst. Because I am spirit soul, I am now imprisoned with this material body. It is my unnatural state, and I am eternal, and because I have accepted this material body I have to undergo birth, death, old age and disease. So that is my effort, how to get out of this material body and remain in my original spiritual identity. That is our whole propaganda. We think material atmosphere is our imprisonment, suffering. Material body means suffering. Otherwise I am eternal, blissful, full with knowledge. That is my position. But because I have been impact... (aside:) Again you have the same disease. Attention, you attend, draw there. Don't do that. Very bad habit. Immediately you sit down, you do it. You cannot check it. So actually this is our punishment. This is maya. That example I have explained this morning, very nice verse, that the moon in the sky is reflected in the water, in hundreds of pots of water, and the wind is agitating the water, and the moon is also agitated—sometimes round, sometimes long, sometimes... The moon is fixed up, but the reflection in the pot making him different. Similarly, I am spirit soul, and I have been captured or I have voluntarily surrendered to this material world, and it is being agitated by the mind, so I am taking this shape, that shape, that shape, this shape, eight million four hundred... That is my trouble. My nature is to be fixed up, always illuminating, but circumstantially I am being agitated by mind, and working with my mind, I am accepting this body, that body, this body, that. So this is very troublesome. Those who have no knowledge, no brain, they are satisfied with this material condition, agitated condition, and driven by the thinking, feeling, willing of the mind. This is very dangerous. We want to get out. This is psychology.
Adi-kesava: That disturbs them the most, that we are condemning everything they believe.
Prabhupada: It is condemned. My position is different. Why shall I die? The rascals, they agree to die. We do not agree to die. We want to come to our original position, no more death. This is our motto, because we get information from the Bhagavad-gita, na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. I do not die on account of my material body mixed up... "Dust thou art; dust thou beist." This body is made of five elements: earth, water, air, fire, ether. And this is my gross body. The gross body is finished, but my mental, subtle body—mind, intelligence—that is not yet finished. That is carrying me to another body. Just like we have got practical experience. I am sitting here, you are sitting here. Mind carries me to New York, and I am now dreaming or thinking I am sitting in that room and talking with somebody. I have forgotten this, but... It is practical. Although I am sitting here, I have forgotten it, and I am working, thinking myself that I am in New York. Similarly, in dream my body is on the bed. I am thinking I am on the Himalayan top. So as it is possible even in this body, similarly, I get another body, gross body. Then I forget this body. This is transmigration. I have explained it. This is the factual. Everyone can experience. I have got a period of remaining in this body. So as soon as this period is finished I get..., I create another body and enter it. And because the period is not finished, although in dream I am getting another body and going to the Himalaya, top, or I'm going to my New York apartment, still, I have to come back because period is not finished. Simple thing. This is transmigration. Why I shall be put into this condition because my original position is eternal? Na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. That we are teaching to the whole world: "Why you are suffering with this body? Get out of the body." This is our Krsna consciousness. It is the best welfare activity to the human society, but because they are so dull, they cannot understand. Murkhanam upadeso hi prako... If first-class rascal is advised, he thinks otherwise, that "He is bothering me." So what can be done? We have taken this danda, we have accepted service of Krsna, and if He has ordered that "You preach this philosophy of Bhagavad-gita. You'll become My very dearest servant," He'll show them. Na ca tasmad manusyesu kascit. So we want to be very faithful to our master, so you may come against us. We don't mind. Jesus Christ was crucified. He didn't mind. So if you are unnecessarily prosecuting us, we don't mind. We must go on with our duty. We cannot give it up. That's all. It is not possible. What to..., you are prosecuting? If you kill us, we shall not. We have taken this danda. This is our determination. You cannot stop us. That's it. "Because we know this is the only welfare activity to the human society. You make talk, madmen. We don't care for it. To be imprisoned with this material body—the greatest suffering... You are trying to mitigate suffering, temporary, this way and that, but you do not know how." That you can show from the Bhagavad... Janma-mrtyu-jara-vyadhi-duhkha-dosanu... [Bg. 13.9]. "This is real suffering. Why the eternal soul should be subjected to birth, death, old age and disease? We are seeing to this. You are thinking that 'If I can place myself in a very high skyscraper building and motorcar,' your business is finished. We are not so fool. We know that 'Any moment, I shall be kicked out of the skyscraper building and motorcar by the laws of nature.' " That's a fact. But fools cannot understand. They think, "This is my permanent..." That is not permanent, but you are permanent. "Where is my permanent situation?"—we are seeking after that. So we are not so fools. We are taking that "I am permanent. Why I should be encapped or entangled in this nonpermanent." This is our philosophy.
Adi-kesava: Because they can't think of anything beyond that...
Prabhupada: Fools. "Therefore you have no brain. It requires to be washed. Your brain is filled up with stools, so we have to wash it. What can be done? Our, this business is washing. We cannot foolishly... We are sweeper on behalf of God, and we are engaged to wash your stool in the brain. That is our business." (laughter) You can say, "Yes, brainwashing, yes. Because you have got so much stool in your brain, we require to wash it." Tell like that. "We are engaged by Krsna. Because you are satisfied, instead of having a real brain, you have got stool in the brain. You are so rascal, you are satisfied. But we are seeing, it is so obnoxious, hampering your existence. Therefore it is my thankless duty to wash it. You should have thanked me, but you are so fool, you are condemning."
Adi-kesava: Because they have stool in their brain...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Adi-kesava: ...they can't think that anybody else has anything better.
Prabhupada: Yes. So we have to wash the stool. "Yes, it is brainwash." Tell them that. This is the truth actually. "You do not know what is the aim of your life. You are claiming, 'human being.' The dog does not know what is the aim of life. The dog is eating, sleeping, having sex and defense. Your whole education system is based on these four principles. Where is that university which is teaching more than this? You have got technological knowledge. Then what is the purpose? The purpose is how you'll get good bread. That's all, eating. What more? Suppose you have become very good technologist, good title. But what is the aim? You get good salary and eating. That's all, nothing more than that. Or sleeping, good apartment. Or sex, very nice girl." (aside:) Come on. "What else you have got by this education? Nothing... Nowhere it is taught that 'You are eternal. You are suffering in this way.' Where is that education?"
Adi-kesava: They don't have it.
Prabhupada: No. "But you do not know. We get this information, janma-mrtyu-jara-vyadhi-duhkha-dosanu... [Bg. 13.9]. Eternal. Na hanyate hanyamane [Bg. 2.20]. Therefore we are trying for that. But you are so dull, in spite of having so many... Therefore the resultant action is you are producing hippies at the end. And how you can be satisfied anymore? They are disgusted with this eating, sleeping, mating business. Now you'll have only hippies." They're disgusted with this system of education, because it is not education at all. This is keeping them in ignorance. "Dog is lying on the street, and a man is lying on the hundred second floor. What is the result? Result is sleeping. Is that improvement? The dog is sleeping very peacefully; you are sleeping-'Oh, there is tiger! Tiger! Tiger! Save me! Save me.' Will that skyscraper building help you in your mental agitation? Is that education? Everyone is taking pill to sleep. You cannot sleep even peacefully, and you are claiming that you are educated." Give this defense. "Here the dog can sleep very peacefully. You cannot sleep even peacefully. This is the resultant action of your so-called education. You are proud of this education, this life, this civilization. You are so brainless, it requires to be washed. Therefore we say it is full of stool. We have come to wash it. That is our thankless duty." What can be done?
Adi-kesava: And for the parents of these...
Prabhupada: They... He's also another rascal. Dog's father, dog.
Adi-kesava: We are washing their brains because they have not washed the brains of their children.
Prabhupada: Yes. Actually it is brainwashing, educating. [break] "You take this. This is our aim. Remain brahmacari, no bother. Is that bad? You will have your sex unrestricted and make your wife pregnant and kill him and eat him. You'll be implicated with so many sinful activities, and if I say, if you are so much afraid, 'Don't have sex,' what is the wrong there? And you are thinking, 'Oh? No sex? It is so brainwashing, mind-controlling.' But what is... You want that in a sinful way. We want in a pious way."
Hari-sauri: Yes. Same thing. No one wants the suffering.
Prabhupada: That is the difference. "Your brain is so filled with stool that you do not know how much sinful activities you are..., and how much you are becoming entangled in this material body. You are killing the child. You have to become his child again, or you have to become again a child and you will be killed. And then you will enter another mother's body; you'll be again killed. As many child you have killed, you'll have to be killed so many times. You'll never see the light. In the womb, womb, womb, you'll be killed. So your brain is so filled up with stool, you cannot understand. This is your education. This is you education. We are trying to save you, that 'You'll suffer so much. You've made the situation so complicated. Better remain a brahmacari.' If there is little trouble without sex enjoyment, take it just like itching. Itching trouble, if you don't itch, it will not increase. And if you itch, more and more it will increase.' That is advised. Kandutivan manasijam visaheta dhirah. One who knows, one who has got brain, 'All right, let me suffer little itching. I'll not itch it.' It will...This is intelligence. Tapasa brahmacaryena [SB 6.1.13]. The suffering from the itching sensation by brahmacari, that is recommended in our sastra. Tapasya means voluntarily accepting some trouble. 'So I am feeling itching. I don't itch it. It is little troublesome, little. Never mind, I shall tolerate it.'
Adi-kesava: They don't understand that that is voluntary. They don't understand that that is voluntary.
Prabhupada: Then voluntary...
Adi-kesava: They think we are somehow telling...
Prabhupada: No...
Adi-kesava: ...the devotees that "You must." "You must not."
Prabhupada: No, we... "It is voluntary. In our society we find so many brahmacaris, so many grhasthas. And if you cannot stop this itching sensation, all right, marry one girl and live peacefully like a gentle... What is this nonsense, every three weeks divorce? We are not so rascal. If we accept one girl as my wife, I take full responsibility. Because I require a girl or woman, so this woman, that one... We are not so rascal that at home I have got woman, I am searching after another woman, another naked woman. We are not so madman. The sex pleasure is there at home, and I am seeking after sex pleasure in here, here, in the club, in the... What is that? Is that vagina is different? You are so fool. You require vagina; take one vagina. Be satisfied. And lick it. Why you are going here and there, here and there, here and there? Even old man is going to the nightclub to lick another vagina. Is that civilization? You are proud of your civilization." Tell them like that. "Licking of the vagina, different, obnoxious smell. You are less than the dog. The dog likes to smell the vagina. You are like that. What is business of going another vagina? You require vagina. Take one and be satisfied. That is intelligence. First of all there is no need of vagina. But if you want, take one and be satisfied. Why you are searching after dog vagina, this vagina, that vagina, that vagina? Is that civilization?" Expose them like that. "Your brain is filled with so much stool, so we are washing it. What is the wrong there?"
Adi-kesava: Actually they all need brainwashing.
Prabhupada: Yes, "Every one of you require, because your brain is filled up with stool. You have no brain. Brain is covered with stool." What they will answer?
Satsvarupa: That "If I want to have a stool brain, it may be lamentable, but don't force me to be washed.
Prabhupada: It is not force. It is no...
Satsvarupa: Let me remain in stool.
Prabhupada: We are preaching. It does not mean that we are forcing. We are saying that "Your brain is in stool. Wash it like this. If one agrees, he does it. Not that in our movement all world has joined. One who is intelligent, he has agreed, 'Yes.' I am not forcing. If I would have possessed that forcive power, what right you have got to bring me in the court? You are forcing me to stop this. You are forcing. Nobody can force, but you are forcing." You should take this argument and expose them at least in the court, licking of the vagina civilization, like dog. Yes animals do that.
Adi-kesava: I think the more strongly we preach in this way, that we don't try to give in and compromise...
Prabhupada: No, no, no.
Adi-kesava: The more that everyone will hear about this issue...
Prabhupada: We must expose them, that's all. This is our business. This is a good opportunity in the court, so that it will be published. People will know what is our philosophy. Licking of vagina civilization, this. Publish.
Adi-kesava: All right.
Prabhupada: What they have got anymore, this Western civilization?
Adi-kesava: They say that they are all actually in despair. They don't see any hope in the future.
Prabhupada: This is their position.
Hari-sauri: Their only hope in the future is that we'll eat trash, process trash and...
Prabhupada: What is that?
Indian: (Bengali) [break]
Prabhupada: All, let us sit down here.
Hari-sauri: In the room?
Prabhupada: Yes, Gaura-Nitai. Is that argument all right, licking the vagina civilization?
Prthu-putra: Great.
Adi-kesava(?): Very bold.
Hari-sauri: No one's ever talked to them like that.
Prabhupada: But this is a fact. The old man, seventy-five years old, he's going to lick up another vagina in the club. This is your Western civilization.
Adi-kesava: Sometimes in New York... You know we live right next to Broadway. The temple is right next to Broadway. Sometimes in New York we see old, old men...
Prabhupada: And in France it is very... In France you have got.
Prthu-putra: In France, yes. All the prostitution going on around the temple.
Adi-kesava: You see even old, old men going to these clubs.
Hari-sauri: If you can still have sex when you're seventy-five, then you're a great man. Glorified.
Prabhupada: Just see. This is their civilization. In Paris there are so many clubs. The old men, they first of all pay fifty dollars to enter into the club. Then he selects which vagina he will lick up. Then another payment. I know that. (aside:) No, he can be asked to sit down there.
Hari-sauri: To sit in the room.
Prabhupada: Yes. Actually this is the fact. But they are fools. They still like to lick up new vagina. Exactly dogs. We are restricting that "Give up this business, licking of vagina," and they are seeking up to the point of death another vagina, another vagina, another... Which is better? If we say that "Give up this nonsense business," is that brainwash? And if it is brainwash, it is for good. What is this civilization, who is never satisfied? The same business is going on up to the point of death. Our civilization is: "All right, you are attached to vagina-licking. Do it up to fifty years. Then give it up." This is our civilization. "You are so much accustomed to the vagina-licking business—up to fifty years, so long you are young. Then give it... Don't do it anymore." This is our civilization. And that also, after twenty-five years. For twenty-five years teach him, "It is no good business. Brahmacari. Remain alone. You have got so much botheration." If he's still unable: "All right, take one wife. Be satisfied. Lick up one. And then, at the age of fifty years, give up." This is our... Is that wrong?
Satsvarupa: It's good.
Hari-sauri: It's great.
Prabhupada: Because unless you give up this business of vagina-licking, you'll have to be entangled in this body. Either as a dog or as a hog, as a human being or as a demigod, as a tree, as an insect, it will go on. In this way plead. Let the people understand what we are preaching. Advance this philosophy, widely discussed. Then our success.
Hari-sauri: There's no question this will be widely discussed.
Prabhupada: And... (someone enters) (Bengali) [break] Smelling the aroma, such a nonsense.
Hari-sauri: As you say, just like dogs.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Hari-sauri: Just like the dogs.
Prabhupada: Dogs and all animals, smelling vagina. They think, "Here is real pleasure."
Hari-sauri: There's no need to move around, Srila Prabhupada... [break]
Prabhupada: They're going for vagina and paying heavy toll: fifty dollars for entering the club, then two hundred dollars for drinking. You know this?
Hari-sauri: Yes.
Prabhupada: This is their civilization, vagina civilization. In Florida they go, Miami, to spend money weekly, five hundred, five thousand dollars for naked dance. You know that?
Hari-sauri: Yes. So many places. Las Vegas. Every big city has...
Prabhupada: And Brahmananda told me sometimes they see on the stage a fatty woman having sex with an ass. This is exhibited in Mexico. And they enjoy it.
Hari-sauri: In Europe they have sex fairs.
Prabhupada: Sex fair? What is that?
Hari-sauri: You can go, and they have sideshows, men and women having sex on the stage at regular intervals, and they exhibit all kinds of contraptions that you can use to pervert your sex life even more.
Prabhupada: What they will understand about this Krsna consciousness?
Hari-sauri: There's not very much hope for them.
Prabhupada: Help is for everyone, but if they remain stubborn to their own way of life, then it is not possible. They have to wash the brain. Otherwise it is possible.
Hari-sauri: You explain in the Bhagavatam that everything actually is just an extension of the sex desire.
Prabhupada: That's it.
Hari-sauri: Their whole big cities and so much industry...
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hari-sauri: ...and work is just simply...
Prabhupada: For the central point-vagina. Yan maithunadi-grhamedhi-sukham hi tuccham [SB 7.9.45]. The other day... Maithunyam agaram ajnah vindati tapan.
Hari-sauri: Rsabhadeva's instructions. (end)

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