Room Conversation

May 2, 1976, Fiji
Prabhupada: That is the difficulty. Everyone sees that "Some way or other, I become guru. Then so many persons will offer me respect. Somehow or other, create some situation. Then I become guru." This is going on. Not bona fide guru. Bona fide guru is indicated by Caitanya, amara ajnaya guru hana: "Become guru." Why ambition? Actually become guru. But how to become guru? Yare dekha, tare kaha 'krsna-upadesa' [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. That's it, otherwise goru. So they will not take this simple method. They will drink, they will hunt after woman and have some attractive singing or dancing and become guru. What is meaning of guru, they do not know. Somehow or other become popular and become guru. This is going on. So with maya you can attract these foolish rascals very easily. If you can manufacture.... You cannot, but if you can show some jugglery, then you become guru. People are after all these things, material things. They are not after Krsna. They are after money and women. So if you give some mantra, then gold will be manufactured, and all women will be attracted, very first class.
Guru-krpa: You know, Srila Prabhupada, they say that if anyone has power to induce anybody to chant Hare Krsna, therefore they must have some special power. Therefore that's their qualification.
Prabhupada: That special power, that is said in the sastras. But people do not want that.
Guru-krpa: Just like, for example, in Bengal before, there was that Charan das Babaji. He induced them to chant the wrong mantra, but where is.... He's not specifically parampara.
Prabhupada: No. He chanted for some time and, of course, there was chanting of "Nitai-Gaura." He introduced new system of chanting: nitai-gaura radhe-syama. So the Nitai-Gaura chanting will have some effect, Kali-yuga. Although he was presenting pervertedly, the beginning was Nitai-Gaura, so it would have some effect. He did not know actually Nitai-Gaura. From his words it appears. He used to preach that Nitai is Radharani, and Gaura is Krsna. That is siddhanta-viruddha. But some way or other, he was chanting Nitai-Gaura. So some effect were there. Just like sandalwood. You do not know which way better pulp comes out, but if you rub any way, some pulp will come because it is sandalwood. So he had some effect of chanting Nitai-Gaura, but later on they deteriorated because they did not know actually, neither they were taught. Siddhanta-viruddha. The siddhanta-viruddha means it will deteriorate. It will not endure.
Guru-krpa: Srila Prabhupada, what about, say, many of your Godbrothers? They also have disciples, and they also are properly initiated by a proper spiritual master, and they give the Hare Krsna mantra.
Prabhupada: The thing is the spirit, real service of preaching, stopped. Formality is going on, but the real business.... Caitanya Mahaprabhu's movement means amara ajnaya guru hana tara ei desa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. That is stopped. Do you follow? The formalities is there, but the real life of Caitanya Mahaprabhu's movement is preaching. Otherwise why Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, amara ajnaya guru hana tara ei desa. Tara means preaching. Yare dekha, tare kaha 'krsna-upadesa' [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. And that is stopped. They are satisfied if they could construct one temple and beg some rice from the neighborhood: "Sir, we have got some temple," that's all. They are satisfied. The spirit of preaching forward-papi tapi jata chilo, hari-name uddharilothat is stopped. So by hari-nama, by chanting, by this way, to live little peacefully in the temple and eat and sleep, that much they have got. If that is the success, that success they have got. And this was condemned by my Guru Maharaja, that "To earn some money by showing Deity in the temple and eat and sleepbetter you become a sweeper in the street and earn your honest livelihood and live." This is cheating. This was condemned. To construct a temple.... Just like the Vrndavana Gosvamis are doing. They thought that "This is our business. Some innocent people will come here and offer some.... Bas, that's our good income." According to the temple's popularity, they think, "This is our success." Therefore they are deteriorating. So that is not success. Success is his who is pushing forward the preaching method. That is his success. And if we think that "By showing a temple Deity we get some money and rice and cloth and just peacefully live here. Don't bother about going to Fiji and all over..." (laughs) That much success they have got. But that is not Caitanya Mahaprabhu. Prthivite ache yata nagaradi grama, sarvatra pracara. What they are doing for that? That is point.
Guru-krpa: What if sometimes disciple, he may go to preach, but he's not preaching in the exact same spirit of his spiritual master?
Prabhupada: Therefore he is not to be preached. Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, janma sarthaka kari' kara para-upakara: [Cc. Adi 9.41] "Go to do good to others. First of all you do good to yourself." First of all you become really preacher. Then go to preach. Caitanya Mahaprabhu never sent neophyte to go to preach. For neophyte the preaching is not their business. For neophyte, one should stick to the worship of Deity in the temple. And those who have understood the philosophy, applied the philosophy in his life, he should go for preaching. Otherwise he'll preach wrongly, like.... What is that? Charan das Babaji. And it will stop. He wanted to preach, but he did not know how to preach, and therefore, after his life, it is finished. So Caitanya Mahaprabhu does not say like that, that "You remain a rascal and go to preach." No. Janma sarthaka kari. "Your first business is that you make your life perfect. Then go to preach. Perfect means you learn how to obey My orders." That is perfection. Amara ajnaya. So if you are actually, perfectly carrying out the orders of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, then you are preaching. Otherwise you will do wrongly, mislead. Don't do that. Andha yathandhair upaniyamanah [SB 7.5.31]. If you remain blind, don't try to lead other blind men. That is misleading. First of all open your eyes. Everything is there. Nobody can do anything whimsically. If you do whimsically, concoctedly, that will be failure. It will not be effective.
Guru-krpa: Even though one may get many followers, that is not...
Prabhupada: Many? What you...? Many followers.... The philosophy you present, it must be followed by everyone. That is wanted. You have got, say, ten thousand followers. That does not mean success. Everyone has got some followers. This.... What is that? Guruji Maharaja. He has got also so-called followers. The T.M., he has got also some followers. Everyone has got some followers. But what kind of followers they have? That is quality. Everything has quality. Simply quantity is not. There are many Christians. Even up to date, some Christian fair or.... Many millions will come. What is the quality? Quality is all meat-eater. But Christian means he should not kill. Where is the Christian? So we have to test by the quality, followers. Not many followers, the quality of the followers. My Guru Maharaja used to say like that, that "If I get at least one quality disciple, then all my labor will be success." He was saying like that: quality, not the quantity. By quantity if one is amazed, then he is also goru. By qualitywhat kind of followers? That is the.... From the very beginning my strictures are there, that "You have to follow this"quality. If I were..., "No, you can do like Vivekananda. Yes, what you can, whatever you like," then I think quantity would have been very, very big. But I don't say. I make him promise before the fire, before the Deity, before guru. [break] That one moon is taken into account. Who takes account of the millions of stars? Ekas candras tamo hanti na ca tara sahasrasah. Quality. So we should be quality devotee, not quantity devotee. I have taken two glasses. Just see how nice water is, tap water. Here so many dobs are available, and this rascal is manufacturing RC and he is going as to be..., business. And for hearing Bhagavad-gita they have no time, and they are trying to go to Vrndavana. Quantity, not quality. So civilization should be quality civilization, not quantity civilization. Do that. Bhedyadasana. Bhedyadasana (indistinct). Bhedi, lamb, they are going, hundreds and thousands. They flock. So, and if one bhedi, lamb, is somehow or other pushed into slaughterhouse stockroom, so all the.... All of them. You haven't got to take many. Some way or other, you induce one of them to go into the, what is called, shed, where stocks are kept for taking out daily and killing. So they do not mind that "We are being pushed into this room for future killing. Never mind. One has gone. Go." They'll go. So this is called in Hindi, bhedyadasana, that without any consideration, "One has entered. Let us all enter." That is bhedi, means animal, their disciple like this. They liked the ceremony?
Guru-krpa: I think we should tell.... Vasudeva dasa is getting his brahmana thread this afternoon?
Prabhupada: Eh?
Guru-krpa: Are you giving him his brahmana initiation this afternoon?
Prabhupada: He has come?
Guru-krpa: No.
Prabhupada: We can do that tomorrow. So it has been settled where we are going?
Guru-krpa: Well, I have to go to the airport this evening.
Prabhupada: No, with Vasudeva.
Guru-krpa: Yes. He is.... He thought it was best.
Prabhupada: Don't do anything...
Guru-krpa: No, it was his suggestion because he doesn't want it to be another small program. He feels...
Prabhupada: This is also cold water?
Hari-sauri: It was. It's still cold.
Prabhupada: Darwin's theory is body is changing, but why it is changing, he does not explain.
Guru-krpa: It's because of nature. You can't explain nature. That's his only answer.
Prabhupada: Nature.... But we also say, prakrteh kriyamanani [Bg. 3.27]. So it is to be understood that it is being done under superior control. If nature is doing, so nature is superior control. He cannot explain. So if he does not know how nature is working, then what is the value of his theory? If he says that he cannot explain how nature is doing, that means he is not expert. He may be mistaken. So why his opinion or decision should be taken final? He does not know how nature is working. That is not perfect knowledge. Does he say like that, "Nature is working"?
Guru-krpa: Nature.
Prabhupada: So how nature is working, he does not know. Then his knowledge is imperfect. Nature is working how, that we know. That is very sober understanding. We say that nature is working under the superintendence of Krsna. Mayadhyaksena prakrtih suyate sa-caracaram [Bg. 9.10]. Nature.... We see nature. Generally we have got idea of the material nature, that the sun is one of the part and parcel of nature's working. The moon is also, the seasonal changes. So many things, nature is working very systematically. The summer season will appear exactly in the month of June and July. The fall begins in September every year. One can foretell that "Next September this will happen," because nature's routine is very fixed up. So this systematic work of nature, how it is possible if there is no supervision?
Guru-krpa: What they do is they just take it for granted because it's happening so regularly.
Prabhupada: So that means you have to accept itthere is superior administration. You may not know what is that administration, but you have to accept it. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gita. Krsna says, "Under My supervision." Here those who are in the gross ignorance, not intelligent, they can suggest that there is some brain, just like Professor Einstein used to say. But he has no knowledge who is that brain, and we have that knowledge, who is that brain. That brain is Krsna. Therefore our knowledge is perfect. They can simply suggest that "There is a brain," but we can say, "Here is the brain." Then it is.... If one knows whose brain it is, that is perfect knowledge.
Guru-krpa: But they have no faith. That's the only difficulty.
Prabhupada: That is foolishness. You accept some brain. But if somebody comes who is accepted as the brain, they have no faith. That means rascal. Narada says, "Here is the brain." Brahma says, "Here is the brain." Siva says, "Here is the brain." Then acaryas, Vyasadeva, says, "Here is the brain." Then modern acaryas, they say, "Here is the brain." Then why don't you accept? You are so rascal? Just like a person is going to London. So if he says, "I have no faith that this Quantas will carry me to London," then how he will be convinced? How he'll be? If he says that "I have no faith in this Quantas company, that it will carry me to London," and if he does not purchase the tickethe has no faiththen who will be loser? The Quantas company will be loser and he will be loser. The rascal who says.... You can say that, that Quantas will carry him to London. You can say that. But if on account of this wrong faith if he does not purchase the ticket, then who will be loser? The Quantas will be loser or he will be loser? If you have no faith, then you are loser. You remain. Rot in this place. Do not try to go to London. What do you think? Eh?
Indian man (1): The traveler is the loser.
Prabhupada: What is that?
Guru-krpa: The traveler is the loser.
Prabhupada: Yes, traveler is the loser. If you have no faith, then loser, you are loser. You will never understand. Therefore sastra says, Mahajano yena gatah sa panthah [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. Big, big stalwart acaryas, mahajanas, they are accepting. Therefore we accept. That is sense. And if you sit down, "No, no, I have no faith," you'll sit down and remain a rascal, that's all. Adau sraddha. Therefore faith is the first thing. Adau sraddha. If he has got intelligence, he'll see: "So many big, big.... Lord Brahma accepts. Lord Siva accepts. Vyasadeva accepts. Narada accepts. The acaryas accept. So am I more than them? No. I will accept." And that is perfection of.... Mahajano yena gatah sa panthah [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. And if still you remain faithless, then you are rascal. Same example can be.... Quantas. So many hundreds are purchasing ticket. They have also never seen London, but on faith they're purchasing ticket. So you have no faith, you don't purchase; therefore remain here. Without faith you cannot begin to work. The same example: You have gone to a barber shop. He is shaving, and people blindly, closing eyes, and he has got a razor. He can immediately cut. But why do you do this? Because you have faith that "These people are professional barbers. They are shaving so many other people. They will not kill me. All right. Go on." This is faith. And if you have no faith, then you will never have clean shaven. You go away. So beginning is faith, but faith should not be blind. Mahajano yena gatah sa panthah [Cc. Madhya 17.186]. You have to take faith from great personalities. That is faith. Just like you American boys and girls. You began with faith. Without faith nothing can be.... Adau sraddha. Just like people come, and they get some faith that "So many people are following Swamiji." So he associates for some time. Then he offers himself for initiation. This is the way. Adau sraddha tatah sadhu-sango 'tha bhajana-kriya [Cc. Madhya 23.14-15]. And bhajana-kriya, if he agrees with spiritual master and takes his word, then anartha-nivrttih syat. Spiritual master says, "You should not do this," and if he follows, then automatically his unnecessary burden is cleansed. This is the way. But faith is the beginning. And that is quite natural. Faith means by seeing others, respectable persons following, "And why not I shall follow?" That is faith. Faith is not also blind. You can see that so many others are doing, "So why I myself?"
Guru-krpa: This faith in the mundane religions, that cannot be called real faith.
Prabhupada: No, that is faith, but because one is not intelligent, he takes irreligion as religion. He does not.... He should be also very intelligent, faithful and intelligent. Not blind faith. He must be faithful, and intelligence.... He must know what is actually religion. So therefore sadhu-sanga [Cc. Madhya 22.83]. Associate with sadhus means those who are actually on the platform. So if he associates with the sadhuthe sadhus accept Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godheadhe will get the understanding that Krsna is the Supreme Lord. Then his faith becomes fixed up in Krsna. This is the way.
Guru-krpa: So what is the exact meaning of that verse, sraddha-sabde. That verse...
Prabhupada: Yes, sraddha. That faith increase, and when it is increased so much that he fully understands, "By worshiping Krsna, everything is done," that is first-class faith. Sraddha-sabde visvasa kahe sudrdha niscaya [Cc. Madhya 22.62]. If he becomes fixed up, "Yes, Krsna is the Supreme Personality," that is first-class, means fulfillment of faith. In the beginning it might be doubtful, neophyte. But when that is, that faith is fixed up, "Yes, Krsna is the Supreme Personality," that is the fulfillment of faith. Faith also there are different stages, improvement. Devotional service means different grades of faith. Today I am in one stage of faith, next day another stage, next day another stage, next day another stage. And when you come to the stage that vasudevah sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19], oh, that is final. Sa mahatma sudurlabhah. That takes time. And quickly also, if one is fortunate. If one is intelligent"The sastra says, 'Vasudeva is everything,' so why not take Vasudeva everything?"then he gains the result immediately. And if he thinks, "All right, let me see for some time," so he may waste his time, but the point is the same. Point is the same, but he has not developed his faith to such extent. You have to wait. And intelligent person, he says, "Why shall I wait? Let me take finally vasudevah sarvam iti [Bg. 7.19]. That business is finished." Sa mahatma. Therefore it is said, sa mahatma sudurlabhah. That kind of staunch faith is not very easy. It is for the great personality. Immediately accepts. Krsna says, sarva-dharman parityajya [Bg. 18.66]. Immediately accepts: "Yes." Then sa mahatma sudurlabhah. That is not very easily done. That means yesam tv anta-gatam papam jananam punya-karmanam [Bg. 7.28]. He is completely free from all reaction of sinful life. Punya-karmanamhe is only engaged in pious activities. Yesam tv anta-gatam papam jananam, te dvandva-moha... He has no more doubt. Dvandva-moha-nirmuktah. He has no doubt. "Yes, Krsna is the Supreme Person." That's it. That's all. If you take by argument, reason, you may waste your time. But if you are intelligent, you can take it on the evidence of mahajano yena gatah, all the mahajanas.
svayambhur naradah sambhuh
kumarah kapilo manuh
prahlado janako bhismo
balir vaiyasakir vayam
[SB 6.3.20]
They are mahajanas. "Prahlada has taken, Bhismadeva has taken, Janaka Maharaja has taken, Lord Brahma has taken, Lord Siva has taken, Narada has taken, Kapila has taken.... What I am?" (laughs) That is intelligence. "Why I am waiting on my intelligence?" That is real. But this rascal is thinking more than Brahma, Narada, Kapila, Prahlada. He is thinking he is more than them. That means rascal, overintelligent. Overintelligent means rascal. Intelligence means you must have reason. And if he is going beyond reason, only depending on himself, then he is overintelligent rascal. You understand overintelligent rascal? Don't be overintelligent. That is very risky. Be intelligent. Overintelligent means rascal. Spoiling. Just like milk. You are heating, and if you give overheat, spoil so many. That kind of heating is not required. You just push on heat as much required. Otherwise you'll spoil by your intelligence.
Devotee (2): They say that one should try to.... In order to approach the spiritual master one must...
Prabhupada: Purchase?
Devotee (2): Approach. Approach. One must become perfect to start with. One must approach a perfect spiritual master and he must become perfect disciple. Could you explain that?
Prabhupada: Yes. He should follow spiritual master. Then he is perfect disciple. Bring water with ice. (end)

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