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Room Conversation

May 1, 1976, Fiji
Prabhupada: ...The Lord then said, (Hindi:) ...bhagavan diya(?). This.... [break]
Pusta Krsna: Mamaivamso jiva-loke [Bg. 15.7]. 15.7.
Guru-krpa: "The living entities in this conditional world are My eternal, fragmental parts. Due to conditioned life, they are struggling very hard with the six senses, which include the mind."
Prabhupada: So with this instrument he's manipulating this machine, as exactly the pilot, with so many electronics, machine, he's working the flying of the plane. Where is the difficulty to understand? And this is, body is a machine. Bhramayan sarva-bhu.... Bhramayan, wandering. The aeroplane is wandering. This machine is wandering. It is also going. Urdhvam gacchanti sattva-sthah. Sometimes up, sometimes down. Huh? Find out this. (devotees look for verse) Same aeroplane, going up and down. Two wings, this hand, like this.
"Those situated in the mode of goodness gradually go upward to the higher planets; those in the mode of passion live on the earthly planets; and those in the mode of ignorance go down to the hellish worlds."
Prabhupada: So same thing: if the pilot is not expert, then goes down to the lowest, finished. Adho gacchanti tamasah. If the pilot is third class, instead of going up, he goes down, and everything is spoiled. So everything on the pilot. The machine is not important. The machine can go up if the pilot knows how to do it. And the machine can go down. Actually, it is happening. This landing point is very dangerous. If the pilot cannot handle very nicely, immediately smashed. The crash takes place while going up and coming down, generally. That is due to mismanagement of the pilot. When in the sky it is regular speed and balance, it is going nicely. There is no crisis. All crises take place while coming down and going up. Leaving the land and coming the land. I have seen sometimes, they clap as soon as they.... (Prabhupada claps his hands. Devotees laugh) "The danger is over." So urdhvam and adhah. Madhye tisthanti rajasah. So in this way, you have to place the subject matter, that the living entity, the soul, is the important thing within this body. Because he's struggling. On account of his ignorance, he's struggling. Manah sasthanindriyani prakrti-sthani karsati [Bg. 15.7]. This is his position.
Pusta Krsna: You mentioned earlier that not only we have to find out who is the speaker, but who is the proper person to hear the subject matter.
Prabhupada: Yes. If somebody is interested to know what is the important thing, then he can understand this. And if he's animal, simply eating, sleeping, mating, what he will understand? Animal is not interested to know how the world is going on. He gets his food and sex. That's all. That is animal propensity. And as soon as he comes to the human platform, then inquisitive. "Ke ami, kene amaya jare tapa-traya." Sanatana Gosvami.... He's not interested, "How I shall develop my economic position?" He has left already a very high-grade economic position. He's not interested. He's interested "Ke ami, kene amaya jare tapa-traya. Actually what is my position? Why I am suffering in this material atmosphere?" That is human life.
Guru-krpa: Arjuna asks also many questions.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Karpanya-dosopahata. Karpanya-dosa [Bg. 2.7]. "It was my duty to understand myself, and I am thinking of my these nonsense relativesmy grandfather, my son. What is this? I know that. What I can do by thinking about them? It may be they have come to war. But suppose they would have died naturallywhat could I do? So why I am perplexed with these things? I know the defect. I cannot cause their death or birth or existence. It is beyond my jurisdiction. And still, I am anxious: If I kill them, then what would happen? What would happen?" You kill or not kill, they'll be killed, today or tomorrow. Gatasun agatasums ca nanusocanti panditah [Bg. 2.11]. A learned man knows that the body will be finished, the bodily action, today or tomorrow. So what is to lament after this body? Lamentation is that the person within the body, whether he's going to hell or heaven. Urdhvam gacchanti or tamo gacchanti. That is real concern. Body will be finished, today or tomorrow or after a hundred years. Who can protect it? But one should be interested with the owner of the body, where he is going, what is his next position. And that is clearly stated: adho gacchanti tamasah, urdhvam gacchanti sattva-sthah [Bg. 14.18]. So you are interested to go up or down or remain in the same status. There are three status: up, down, and the same.
Pusta Krsna: General mass of people think that life is finished with this body. They're unaware of up or down...
Prabhupada: Therefore.... Therefore, they're rascals. And for the rascals, the Bhagavad-gita teaching is there. Learn! They are giving the stress on the body, that "The body is finished, everything finished." They do not know beyond the body. But the real knowledge begins, "No, you are beyond this body." That is real knowledge. That is the beginning of knowledge. Any other knowledge except this, that is ignorance. That is not knowledge. They are accepting ignorance as knowledge.
Pusta Krsna: Yes.
Prabhupada: That is the defect. Therefore Krsna consciousness movement is so essential. They are accepting ignorance as knowledge. Darwin's theory. It is simply speculation on ignorance, and it has been taken as knowledge. Freud's philosophy is the business of the hogs and dogs, and it has been taken as philosophy. Even the hogs and dogs know how to enjoy sex life. And they are.... On account of sex life, they have written a philosophy. Is that philosophy? Tattva-jnanartha-darsanam. Find out. The Thirteenth Chapter. Hmm? (devotees look for verse)
Pusta Krsna: Another line?
Prabhupada: Find out amanitvam adambhitvam ahimsa ksantih [Bg. 13.8], Thirteenth Chapter.
Guru-krpa: Tattva-jnanartha-darsanam.
Prabhupada: Anyatha. These rascals, they're in ajnanam, dealing with sex life, dealing with the body as their philosophy, science. Dealing with the body and dealing with sex life is the animal business, and they are passing on as philosopher, scientist. This is their position, the whole world. So how much Krsna consciousness is important, just imagine.
Pusta Krsna: The goal of knowledge is not there.
Prabhupada: They do not know. And animals.... Therefore they are animals. What the dogs will understand? When there is one lady dog, one dozen dog will come. Smelling the best part of the body. (laughter) This is their philosophy. So Freud is that: best part of the body, he's writing philosophy.
Pusta Krsna: Books and books. (laughs)
Prabhupada: Just see. This is the position. How low taste: hogs' and pigs' business, and write philosophy. His books are selling like anything. (pause)
Pusta Krsna: You mentioned, Srila Prabhupada, that if someone can understand that they're not this body, then immediately he should be able to understand that there's a Supersoul.
Prabhupada: Yes, that I have already told you just now. Therefore it is very essential to understand.
Pusta Krsna: So the approach used by Krsna is essential for any person who wants to understand the Supersoul?
Prabhupada: Hmm?
Pusta Krsna: Someone in material consciousness cannot understand God? So then what of all these religions, for example, Muslim and Christian religion? Generally speaking, they don't even accept the existence of soul.
Prabhupada: Therefore they're not religion. They're cheating. This is not religion, this is cheating.
Pusta Krsna: So simply they're talking about God?
Prabhupada: Yes. What is this?
Hari-sauri: This is dob juice, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: No, no, no, you can keep that. Actually, there is no religion. In the name of religion, some farce is going on.
Pusta Krsna: That's a fact. You've said in the past, "Devil citing scripture."
Prabhupada: Yes. They're eating meat. They have no even human sense. What is that religion? They have no even sense that "I am cutting throat of one poor animal under my protection. If somebody cuts my throat, how much I am unhappy. And I'm doing the same business and I'm human being? How can I call myself a human being? I have no sense even of compassion." Cats and dogs are passing on as religionists. Some hogs and pigs are going on as philosopher. And other animals is going as scientist, Darwin. They're animals only, cats and dogs. They are the leaders of the society. How you can expect any benefit from them? The leaders themselves are cats and dogs, pigs. Sva-vid-varahostra-kharaih samstutah purusah pasuh [SB 2.3.19]. These leaders, they are samstutah, they are very much worshiped. By whom? Sva-vid-varahostra-kharaih. By the dogs, by the pigs, by the.... sva-vid-varaha..., camel, and by the ass. Because these particular names, I have explained in the Bhagavata... So suppose one man has become lion, and he's praised by dogs, camels, asses, and pigs. Naturally, they will praise, "Oh, sir, you are the king." Does it mean he's king? He's animal. So it is going on. They are electing a big animal as president. And when he begins to eat, animal, big animal, then they protest, "Oh, now he's not proper president. Get him down, get him down." But why you sent him? "Because we are pigs; we have no other knowledge. We another, appoint another big pig as our president." Everything is explained in the Vedic literature. If you can present them properly, it will act. The voters are sva-vid-varahostra-khara. And the president is another big animal. That's all. This is transaction of animal kingdom. A lion is the king of some asses, pigs, dogs, and hogs. What business you can expect there? This is their real picture. One who is a human being, he's seeing that how the animals are enjoying by voting and electing president. But they are thinking, "We are busy in a very great business. We are electing president." (laughter) This is going on. [break] ...you say that these rascal pigs, hogs, they elected president, and this president will eat them, and they will understand what kind of president they have elected. This thing is happening in the most advanced country of USA. And what to speak of other animal kingdom. Even the topmost state at the present moment, there also is happening the same thing. And what to speak of other small states.
Guru-krpa: If bhakti-yoga is the..., one can only understand Krsna through bhakti-yoga, why did Krsna bother to explain karma-yoga and jnana-yoga through so many...
Prabhupada: Because there are third-class men, fourth-class men. They cannot understand bhakti-yoga immediately. But at last He says, sarva-dharman parityajya [Bg. 18.66], if you are intelligent. Sarva-guhyatam. Real knowledge is here. Sarva-guhyatamam. But He's proposing at last, "If by understanding all other ways, if he has come to know what is the actual knowledge..." That is the most confidential knowledge. That is not for everyone. How one can give up karma-yoga, jnana-yoga, dhyana-yoga? They cannot. But Krsna says, "This is the most confidential. If you accept this, then it is to be understood you have knowledge." It is not for everyone. Find out this verse. Sixty-three, Eighteenth Chapter, I think. So take these notes, take these books and preach. You have taken all, sannyasa. You preach.
"Because you are My very dear friend, I am speaking to you..."
Prabhupada: It is to be spoken to the most confidential person. "You are My dear friend; I am talking." Other rascals will not understand. It is especially for Arjuna, not for the common man.
Pusta Krsna: "...I am speaking to you this most confidential part of knowledge. Hear this from Me, for it is for your benefit."
Prabhupada: "That is especial friendship and especial love; so I give you this. Keep it confidential." This is real. Other rascals will not value this. They will protest, "Huh? Why shall I surrender to Krsna?"
Guru-krpa: So what is that confidential?
Prabhupada: Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. "So we have spoken so many other things for other rascals. But you are My friend, very intimate. I tell you, this is real fact." So fact is fact. If you take earlier or later, that is different thing. You have to come. Bahunam janmanam ante [Bg. 7.19]. One has to take many births before coming to this understanding. Sa mahatma sudurlabhah. So everyone is not mahatma even, what to speak of sudurlabhah. (laughs) (end)

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