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730919rc.bom
Room Conversation
September 19, 1973, Bombay Prabhupada: ...kandutivan manasijam visaheta dhirah. Dhiras tatra na muhyati [Bg. 2.13]. If you can quote slokas, that will be first-class. In India especially. In your country they do not care. Our Bhavananda Swami, because he could not quote sloka, so he was saying, "Oh, because you have quoted some sloka, it is authorized?" He was saying like that. Western people, they cannot imagine that by quoting a Vedic version it becomes immediately authorized. They cannot imagine.
Prabhupada: They don't accept any authority. Therefore they are changing Bible also, according to their whims. They don't accept authority. Therefore father, son, goes out of home. This is the basic principle of western civilization. They don't accept any authority. Everyone is his own authority. Now that contamination has come here. And nobody can be authority also, because if I accept somebody authority, he has not followed authority, so how he can be authority? Do you follow? Suppose if somebody respects his father, but father never followed any authority. So actually father is not authority. What do they say, authority? Organized religion? They protest organized religion? What is that?
Acyutananda: Yeah, they protest organized religion. Anything in the society, Catholic Church...,
Prabhupada: So nobody's now actually... This Christian world, they do not care for any pope. Hm. What do you think? And what is this pope? He's simply a post. He has no knowledge. Otherwise how he can tolerate? People are going against Bible. But the Pope does not understand that the in the Bible clearly it is said, "Thou shalt not kill." If he does not understand the simple truth then how he can become the head of his... So what is interpretation of the pope?
Acyutananda: Yes, they say that animals have no soul.
Prabhupada: Just see. Such rascals, they are leaders. How much imperfect that institution is. But if you say, then they will be angry.
Acyutananda: Yes, one girl, she is Hindu, but she is studying in a convent. And they were catching butterflies in the garden. So the head sister said, "No, don't harm them because they are God's creatures." So she said, "Well, why do you eat meat?" So the sister left, but she failed her. She failed her in her classes. She gave her a failing grade, because she spoke back to her.
Kirtanananda: It means they have no philosophy.
Prabhupada: No philosophy. No authority, no philosophy.
Kirtanananda: If they say, "One living entity has soul and another living entity doesn't," what is the difference? What is the principle of movement, they don't know.
Prabhupada: What is that idea? I do not follow.
Acyutananda: The girl embarrassed the sister by saying that "You say that we shouldn't harm these insects, but you eat meat." So the sister didn't say anything, but on the girl's examinations and during her classes the sister gave her failing marks, in spite of her, to cut down her outspokenness.
Prabhupada: Failing marks? Means less...?
Acyutananda: Yes, she failed her in the class.
Kirtanananda: Because she asked, "Why do you eat meat?"
Prabhupada: Just see.
Acyutananda: She couldn't answer her philosophically, so she got back by failing her.
Prabhupada: So there are so many members of the society against cruelty to animals. But they are all meat-eaters. Read something from Bhagavad-gita and discuss. So in the Nepeansea Road, whether regular other things are going on or not? Or simply it is going out and coming and eating and sleeping?
Tamala Krsna: Well, we want to have morning class and Monday, Wednesday and Friday have evening program there, evening discourse.
Prabhupada: Whether it is going on?
Tamala Krsna: Well, we just fixed up the place. The day you arrived was the first day it was painted. Until then, it was not fit for anyone to come in. It was very nasty.
Prabhupada: But you are living since a long time there.
Prabhupada: No, you invite others or not, whether your program was going on?
Prabhupada: Then it was simply a joint mess, that you go and collect and come and eat and sleep.
Prabhupada: That is very dangerous. Then you will all fall down. If you make a joint mess, if you go and collect something and then eat and sleep, then everything will be... Therefore I do not want to keep separate. The temple worship means there will be regulative principles, that you will have to rise early in the morning, you have to attend class, kirtana... These things, as soon as you give up all these things, zero. Then it will be like karmis, as they are, hard labor, collecting money, and enjoying senses. That's all. So that is the pitfall everywhere. In the church, temple, as soon as they get some nice income, then in the name of "priest," "sadhu," "sannyasi," they do the same thing. Therefore Gosvamis, they left everything. That is the danger of visaya, visaya touch. Visaya chadiya se rase majiya. As soon as we give up this sravanam, kirtanam, then it becomes visaya. Visaya means materialism. There is no spiritualism. Ksurasya dhara, ksurasya dhara. Ksura means sharpened razor. If you are careful, you cleanse very nicely. If you are not careful, immediately blood. Immediately. So the spiritual life is like that. As soon as you become little inattentive, immediately maya captures, "Yes, come on." Then everything failure. We have got the tendency to enjoy sense. So senses are strong. As soon as there is opportunity, the senses will take advantage immediately. Then your whole business finished, Chota Haridasa, and rejected by Mahaprabhu, "Get out." Even associate of Caitanya Mahaprabhu failed, personal associate. So there is chance of falling down even from the personal association of God. Jaya-Vijaya, they had to become demons. So these are the... If we do not follow strictly our regulative principles, routine work, then the whole scheme will be failure. Then, instead of Christianity, it will be "churchianity." You know this word, "churchianity?" You know? Yes. Everywhere this churchianity is going on. And the real aim is how to enjoy sense, under different cover. That is going on all over the world. Therefore it has come to that Rajneesh. Ramakrishna Mission, Rajneesh mission. Vivekananda has given preached, Yata mata tata patha, Rajneesh also, a mata. They have got also followers. Everyone can manufacture his own way of religion. So sense enjoyment, there is free field. This material world means sense enjoyment. But spiritual life means no sense enjoyment, tapasya. Tapo divyam. Sense enjoyment is there even in the hogs. Then where is the difference between man and hog? The man means the more he has denied sense enjoyment, he is advanced. Otherwise the spirit of sense enjoyment there is in the hogs. That is the difference. Nayam deho deha-bhajam nrloke kastan kaman arhate vid-bhujam ye [SB 5.5.1]. These ordinary men, they are working so hard, but what is their aim? The aim is sense enjoyment. So keeping the point, sense enjoyment, in view, there is no difference between hogs and human beings. Because they are also working day and night, hogs. A particular animal has been mentioned in the sastra. Nayam deho deha-bhajam nrloke. This ayam deho nrloke, in the human society, is not meant for working so hard simply for sense enjoyment because this spirit is visible even in the hogs. Then what it is meant...? Tapah. Tapasa brahmacaryena [SB 6.1.13]. That is the point. Samena, damena. Satya-saucabhyam. Everything is there. And there are different types of sense enjoyment: rupa, rasa, gandha, sabda, sparsa, six kinds. And each sense, there is an object of sense enjoyment. There is eyes, oh, beautiful woman, sense enjoyment. Maithunam, sex life, there are eight kinds of sex. If one thinks within the mind about sex enjoyment, that is also sex. So anyway, that is the danger, keeping a separate department for money collecting. Then it will turn: "Collect money, eat nicely and sleep nicely." And to live in the temple, at least, one is forced to rise early in the morning, take bath, to have darsana. They'll get regulated life. Therefore this temple worship is needed because we are so impure. So at least, in temple, by following the regulative principles, we can keep ourself pure. Otherwise simply chanting is sufficient. There is no need of constructing big, big temples. But we are so impure... That is Jiva Gosvami's, recommended that as soon as we give up this temple worship method, regulative principles, then we become, in the dress of so-called, we become victim of maya. Vesopajivaka. They are working and doing some business, and then our dress will be a means of business. This will be also another material business. Actually they are doing so. So that is the danger of keeping a separate department. What is the use? We have got jeeps?
Prabhupada: Well, if the danger is there, why should we accept such use?
Prabhupada: You cannot ever overcome, because you are all weak. Daivi hy esa gunamayi mama maya [Bg. 7.14]. Unless you are very strong, maya is very, very stronger than you. How you can avoid it? Daivi hy esa gunamayi mama maya duratyaya, mam eva ye prapadyante. Only one is very, very strong in capturing the lotus feet of Krsna, he can avoid. Otherwise it is not possible. All these Villa Parle, Juhu gentlemen, they are daily coming to their city business. And is it very difficult for us?
Prabhupada: Office means their business is office. But your business is begging. Your business is not office. Your business is not... They have to direct so many things from there. That we can do. Besides that... Anyway, even they have got office, they come from in Bombay, Calcutta, even from hundred miles away. So if there is no such program, Deity worship, regulative principles, then it will be a joint mess. Hotel. Transcendental hotel. And transcendental fraud. This will go on. The business will be transcendental fraud, and life will be transcendental hotel. [Break] ...twenty, twenty-five. So these women devotees, they are given capatis by the babajis. Ksurasya dhara. Actually it is like that. A sharpened razor, A little inattention, immediately blood. Ksurasya dhara nisita duratyaya durgam pathas tat kavayo vadanti (?). That is the risk. Nowadays modern civilization, as we are accepting, there is jeep, there is telephone, everything is there. One can conduct his activities from anywhere.
Tamala Krsna: But it didn't work last time. They stopped their preaching. The last time everyone moved to Juhu, they completely lost contact with all the life members in the city because they found it very difficult to continuously go back and forth.
Prabhupada: So keep it just like a temple. Not that...
Acyutananda: Nepeansea Road downtown, it should be kept like a temple?
Prabhupada: Yes. The temple routine work must go there.
Prabhupada: Deity, there is picture. That's all right. Do you think that picture is not Deity?
Prabhupada: There are eight kinds of Deity. Picture is also Deity. Even the thinking of Krsna within the mind, that is also Deity. But we are not so expert that within the mind we can worship the Deity. Just like yesterday I gave you the example, the brahmana. He was worshiping Deity within the mind. There was no temple, no Deity. But within the mind, everything he was doing. And he got salvation. So that depends on particular person, how to worship Deity. So far we are gross men. So we must have Deity worship. Otherwise you can worship Deity anywhere, sit down and think, just like this brahmana was thinking. Because Krsna is available in any way, because He is everything. But the method must be there. Bhumir apo 'nalo vayuh kham mano [Bg. 7.4]. So mind is also another material thing. So if you think of Krsna's form within the body, mind, it is as good as you worship the Deity in the temples made of brass or wood or stone. Because both of them are Krsna's energies. So whatever possible, He can accept. And that is Krsna. Because Krsna's energy. Therefore the energy is not different from Krsna. Krsna can accept your service in any of these material. So-called material. Actually there is no material things. Material things means the desire for sense gratification. That is material. Atmendriya-priti-vanchatare bali 'kam [Cc. Adi 4.165].' That is material. Krsnendriya-priti-iccha dhare 'prema' nama. That is spiritual. So that picture, that must be kept in a nice altar, regularly arati and everything should go on. (pause) [break] mudha's position. Vyasadeva has given Krsna's pastimes in the Tenth Canto of Bhagavata. Nine canto are devoted for understanding Krsna, beginning from janmady asya yatah [SB 1.1.1]. The Supreme, what is Parabrahman? Janmady asya yatah [SB 1.1.1]. This is beginning. That Krsna is personally explaining Himself in the Bhagavad-gita. What Bhagavata has described, what is Krsna simply... Janmady asya yatah [SB 1.1.1]. Athato brahma jijnasa. Here also, this Viraraghavacarya says in (indistinct) jijnasaya. He has given the meaning of jijnasaya. Yes. Jnana-buddha-vicarena jijnasaya (?). Jijnasaya means vedanta-vakya-vicarena. Vedanta. Jijnasa. Jijnasa, inquisitiveness, should be satisfied by the answers given in the Vedanta. Jijnasaya. So Vedanta begins with this jijnasa, inquisitiveness. Jijnasa. Athato brahma jijnasa. This human life is meant for inquiring about the Supreme Brahman. Jijnasa. Jijnasuh sreya uttamam. And Bhagavata says jijnasu. And Bhagavad-gita also says, jnani jijnasuh ca bharatarsabha. Catur-vidha. Find out this. Catur-vidha bhajante mam, sukrtino 'rjuna. Those who are pious, they can begin bhajana. Sukrtinah. So four kinds of men: arto jijnasur artharthi jnani. Artah means distressed, materially distressed; artharthi, poor man who needs some money; jnani and jijnasuthese four classes of men, if they are pious, they inquire about the Absolute Truth. If they are pious. If one is pious, if he is distressed, he prays to Bhagavan, "Sir, I am in distressed condition. Kindly save me." This is piety. Artharthi. Jnani. They are... So jnani. Human life is developed consciousness, jnani, so why they should waste their time in inquiring so many unwanted things? They should devote their life simply for inquiring about the Absolute Truth, jijnasu. Athato brahma jijnasa. This life is meant for brahma-jijnasa. This life is not meant for to live like cats and dogs. They have no jijnasa. Their only jijnasa is inquiry. Where is food? Where is sex? Where is nice apartment? Where is defense? This is their inquiry. In the animal life, there is no possibility of inquiring about the Absolute Truth. Everyone is working. They are also jijnasu. "Where is money? Where is money?" That is also inquiry. So athato brahma jijnasa means... (Aside) You can come this side. Brahma-jijnasa means this human form of life is meant for inquiring about the Absolute Truth, brahma-jijnasa. This is human life. Unless one is jijnasu, just like Sanatana Gosvami went to Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, and he inquired... His first inquiry was, "What I am?" His first inquiry was. Ke ami, kene amaya jare tapa-traya? He said, "gramya-vyavahare pandita, tai satya mani." He was a brahmana. So brahmanas are addressed as "panditji." He was pandita. He was very learned scholar in Sanskrit and Parsee, Urdu. But he admitted his fault, that "Everyone calls me as panditji, but I am such a pandita that I do not know what I am. This is my 'panditji.' Therefore I have come to inquire from You what I am." That is brahma-jijnasa. Nobody knows in this material world what he is. Everyone is thinking, "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am Hindu," "I am Muslim," "I am brahmana," "I am woman," "I am man." This is their... is their... They do not know. Brahma-jijnasa. Brahma-jijnasa means first to know one's self, self-realization, "what I am." And in the Bhagavad-gita the first reply is given there. This brahma-jijnasa. Because Arjuna was puzzled. He was thinking that "My kinsmen, my grandfather, my brothers, they are this skin, this body." So he was thinking, "If I kill my grandfather, my brother on the other side, what is the use of this fight? I do not like." But he was thinking in bodily concept of life. This is the position of everyone. Everyone is in the bodily concept of life. Therefore the first instruction of the Bhagavad-gita is dehino 'smin yatha dehe kaumaram yauvanam jara, tatha dehantara-praptih [Bg. 2.13]. The asmin dehe, in this body, there is the soul. He is the proprietor. So this life should be, education means one should be advanced in education to inquire about himself, that is brahma-jijnasa. Athato brahma jijnasa. And as soon as there is question of jijnasa, then there must be somebody else from whom to inquire. Therefore sastra says that when you are jijnasu, when you are inquisitive... Inquisitive of what? Jijnasuh sreya uttamam. Sreyas. Here we are also jijnasu, we are going to the market; "What is the rate of this share? What is the rate of this commodity? What is the rate of rice? What is...?" We are also jijnasu. But sastra says jijnasuh sreya uttamam: "One must be inquiring about the highest perfection of life." That is human life. Sreya uttamam. Sreyas means... sreyas and preyas. Goodness, welfare, good. A small child does not know what is his sreyas. If you give a two payasa worth lozenges, he thinks, "This is my object, end of... I have got now nice sweet lozenges." But as you advance, then the sreyas is different. It is preyas. Immediately which you like, that is called preyas. But what is your ultimate good, that is called sreyas. S
reyas and preyas. So people are interested in the bodily concept of life. Anything which is immediately pleasing to my senses, we take it, "This is my end of life." Therefore sastra says, sreya uttamam, not that sreyas which is immediately very pleasing to you. What is immediately pleasing to you, it will be a source of great displeasure at the end. That is stated in the Bhagavad-gita. So uttamam. Uttamam. Ut means transcendental, and tama means this material world. "Beyond this material world," Uttama. Sreya uttamam. Because we are not this material body, therefore our sreyas, our highest perfection of life, is different. Here the perfection of lifeyou get a comfortable life of the body. That is not possible, however comfortably you may situate. You may be very rich man, you may have very rich connection or good apartment, but still, you cannot be happy because you are not this body. But they do not know. Therefore one should be inquisitiveness that "I want to be happy. I am arranging for my happiness with so many material paraphernalia, but still I am not happy." This inquiry should be there. That is called jijnasuh sreya uttamam. And that is brahma-jijnasa. So brahma-jijnasa is not for everyone. Brahma-jijnasa. And for brahma-jijnasa one should make a guru, not for any material welfare. If I get some money, if some guru gives me some money, some gold, I think he is Bhagavan. Because I am attached to this gold and material things. That is not sreyas. But people like that. If somebody by miracles give you some money, some gold, they think, "Oh, here is God. Here is God, here is God." But that is not sreyas. And if gold is the standard of happiness, then... There are many persons, Birlas and others, they possess huge stock of gold. Does it mean that they will not die? They will not suffer from disease? But foolish persons, they think, "If I get some gold, then I'll be happy." And that is foolishness. Nothing material will make you happy. Therefore Krsna says, real happiness means to approach Him. Mam hi partha vyapasritya [Bg. 9.32]. No? What is that? Duhkhalayam asasvatam napnuvanti mahatmanah [Bg. 8.15]. Find out this verse. Duhkhalayam... The second line you can find out.
Pradyumna: Seventh Chapter?
Prabhupada: Yes, it may be. Come on. (Hindi) Napnuvanti? Means "By coming to Me, one does not again get this place, which is duhkhalayam asasvatam [Bg. 8.15]." Napnuvanti mahatmanah duhkhalayam asasvatam... This place is duhkhalayam. Duhkha alayam. Here we create miseries. Or it is a miserable place. Therefore Krsna says, who has created this cosmic manifestation as duhkhalayam asasvatam [Bg. 8.15], "It is a place of miserable conditions. And that is also asasvatam, not permanent, non-permanent." You cannot make any compromise that "All right, let it be duhkhalayam. I shall stay here." You cannot stay. You'll be kicked out. You cannot stay. Therefore it is called asasvatam, non-permanent. This is our... But we are seeking after permanent bliss, permanent eternal life. That is our searching out. That is real jijnasa, "Where I can get eternal life of bliss and knowledge?" That is brahma-jijnasa. So this life, this human... You have got it?
Pradyumna: Yes.
Prabhupada: Ah, this is samsiddhim paramam, highest perfection. What is the translation?
Pradyumna: After attaining Me, the great souls who are yogis in devotion never return to this temporary world, which is full of miseries, because they have attained the highest perfection.
Prabhupada: That is the highest perfection. Napnuvanti, what is that?
Pradyumna: Napnuvanti mahatmanah.
Prabhupada: Ah, mahatmanah. This mahatmanah means devotees of Lord. Mahatmanas tu mam partha daivim prakrtim asritah, bhajanty ananya-manasah [Bg. 9.13]. This is mahatma. Mahatma means... Mahatmanas tu mam partha daivim prakrtim asritah [Bg. 9.13]. Mahatmas, they are under the protection of spiritual energy, and what is the sign? That bhajanty ananya-manasah. Find out this verse, mahatmanas tu mam partha daivim prakrtim asritah [Bg. 9.13]. Just like we are under the material energy. This is called... This is also also daivi-prakrti, but it is inferior. Para-prakrti and apara-prakrti. That is described. That real daivi-prakrti is transcendental. Everything is Krsna's energy. Just like heat and light. They are different energies of the fire. But heat or light, light is superior than the heat. Both of them coming from the same source. Heat and light. Just like sun. The heat and light. But we are more concerned with the light, sunlight. Similarly, the spiritual world and the material world, both of them are creation or emanation, mattah sarvam pravartate, from God. But the light energy is more perfect. Apareyam itas tu viddhi me prakrtim param. What is that verse? You have found out? Read it.
mahatmanas tu mam partha
daivim prakrtim asritah bhajanty ananya-manaso jnatva bhutadim avyayam [Bg. 9.13] "O son of Prtha, those who are not deluded, the great souls, are under the protection of the divine nature. They are fully engaged in devotional service because they know Me as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, original and inexhaustible."
Prabhupada: Yes. Bhajanti. Bhajanti means "engaged in devotional service." Bhaja sevayam. Bhaj-dhatu, this verb, is meant for rendering service. Bhaj-dhatu, kti, bhakti. So bhakta. Bhakti, bhakta and Bhagavan. So these are the mahatmas. But these mahatmas, these bhakta-mahatmas... Actually, mahatma is bhakta-mahatma. But there are others, mahatmas; they are also called mahatmas, but they are not mentioned in the Bhagavata. They have been mentioned anye. Anye means others. Is that verse there? Mahatmanas tu mam partha [Bg. 9.13]? No. Anye? Anye means others. The impersonalists, they are also sometimes called mahatma. But the mahatma who is krsna-bhakta, that is very rare. That is described in the Bhagavata, sa mahatma sudurlabhah. There are mahatmas, but the mahatma who is the devotee of Krsna, he is very rare. Sa mahatma sudurlabhah. Jnanis they are also mahatmas, speculating what is the Absolute Truth. They are also called mahatma. But this mahatma, bhajanty ananya-manasah, without any deviation, this mahatma is very rare. Sa mahatma sudurlabhah. Bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan mam prapadyate. This prapadya... (Aside) Oh, why you are? You can keep it closed. Yes.
Bahunam janmanam ante. The jnanis and yogis, they have to search for the Absolute Truth for many, many births. Bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan. Those who are searching out the Absolute Truth, they are also jnanavan. Or after many, many births, when one becomes actually wise, jnanavan. Everyone is searching after the Absolute or the highest perfection of life. "In this way, searching, when one comes to the real platform of becoming wise, then he surrenders unto Me." Bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan mam prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. Why? Now, vasudevah sarvam iti. Such wise man, jnanavan, he knows that "Krsna is everything." Vasudevah sarvam iti. Vasudevah sarvam iti sa mahatma sudurlabhah. "That mahatma is very rare." So our Krsna consciousness movement is making that sa mahatma sudurlabhah, not ordinary mahatma. Sa mahatma, that mahatma, who fully surrenders to Krsna. Krsna also says, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. That is real perfection of life. By understanding Krsna, by surrendering to Krsna, by going back to home back to Godhead, Krsna, that is samsiddhi. What is that verse, samsiddhi?
Pradyumna: Samsiddhim param gati...
Prabhupada: No... napnuvanti. Samsiddhim paramam gatah. Samsiddhim. Siddhi, siddhi is ordinary. If you become transcendentalist, jnani, yogi, that is also kind of siddhi. Yogis, they have got asta-siddhi, anima-laghimadi. But that is not samsiddhi. Samsiddhi is different. Samsiddhim paramam gatah. The highest perfection, samsiddhi is to go back to home, back to Krsna. That is samsiddhi. Mam upetya kaunteya duhkhalayam asasvatam [Bg. 8.15]. That will save him from coming down again to this place which is full of miserable conditions of life. That is samsiddhi. That one can attain very easily. That is also described, that janma karma me divyam yo janati tattvatah: [Bg. 4.9] "Anyone who understands Me in truth..." Generally, people understand Krsna that "He appeared as a great personality, son of Vasudeva. At Mathura, He was born. And He acted very gorgeously in the Battlefield of Kuruksetra, and so on, so on." This is also knowing. But this is not knowing factually that Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. When one understands Krsna, the original source of everything, janmady asya yatah [SB 1.1.1], which Krsna explains, mattah parataram nanyat: [Bg. 7.7] "There is no superior authority beyond Me." Aham sarvasya prabhavah: [Bg. 10.8] "I am the origin of all." When one understands Krsna like that... The Mayavadi philosophers, they think that "I am also Krsna, I am also Krsna." But people who follow, they do not ask him that "If you are Krsna, you show something as Krsna showed. Krsna lifted the Govardhana Hill when He was seven years old. And you are seventy years old. What you have done like that?" (laughs) So everyone wants to become Krsna, but he cannot manifest Krsna's pastimes. Krsna showed the virat-rupa to Arjuna. What you have got? So this is Mayavada. Mattah parataram nanyat [Bg. 7.7]. Krsna says, "Nobody can be superior than Me or equal to Me, equal to Me." Therefore Krsna's another name is Asamordhva. Nobody is equal; nobody is above Him. Asamordhva. So in this way if we understand Krsna, then we become liberated. Janma karma me divyam yo janati tattvatah [Bg. 4.9]. And this tattvatah is very significant. How you can know Krsna as He is, in truth? That is also explained. Bhaktya mam abhijanati yavan yas casmi tattvatah [Bg. 18.55]. If you want to understand Krsna in tattva, in fact, in truth, then you have to adopt this process of bhakti. Not jnana, not yoga, not karma. Karma, jnana, yoga, bhakti. So Krsna is understandable simply by bhakti, not by other methods. Not by karma, not by jnana, not by yoga. Therefore Krsna says, bahunam janmanam ante [Bg. 7.19]. The jnanis, karmis, yogis, they are trying to come to the Absolute Truth, but they will take many, many births to come to this point to surrender. Therefore intelligence means if one understands that "Ultimately I have to come to Krsna for my highest perfection; then why not immediately? Krsna is canvassing, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Why not take this process?" This is intelligence. Therefore Krsna says, bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan: [Bg. 7.19] "After many, many births when one actually becomes wise, jnanavan, he surrenders, he surrenders." If one remains still unwise, not fully in knowledge, he hesitates, "Oh, why shall I surrender to Krsna? Krsna is as like me; He is also a man. Maybe a powerful man, a very learned man." No. Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So anyone who understands Krsna, tattvatah, in truth... "Simply by understanding Krsna, even if he does not understand fully, if he tries to understand Krsna, that is also very good." That is also. Tyaktva sva-dharmam caranambujam harer [SB 1.5.17]. Even one tries to understand Krsna, he does not finish, Krsna says, svalpam apy asya dharmasya trayate mahato bhayat: "Even little beginning of this devotional service can save one person from the greatest danger." Therefore there is great need of Krsna consciousness movement all over the world, to make them intelligent. Is there any question on this point?
Prabhupada: Yes yes. Because he will try to understand Krsna. Even Lord Brahma could not understand Krsna. (laughs) No. (Hindi) Therefore, to understand Krsna he desired to take birth in Vrndavana.
Out of many millions of persons, they try to understand what is the perfection of life, and out of many such millions of persons who are in the line of understanding perfection of life, some of them or some one may understand Krsna. Muhyanti yat surayah. Just like Brahma was also bewildered whether Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Brahma, the first creature of this universe, he's also... muhyanti yat surayah. Therefore we should take advantage of this opportunity. Krsna is explaining Himself in the Bhagavad-gita, about Himself. That is the highest perfection of life, simply to understand Bhagavad-gita as it is. As spoken by Krsna. Then one's life is perfect. But unfortunately, so many scholars and swamis, they are misinterpreting Krsna and Bhagavad-gita. The people are placed in darkness. They are already in darkness. By misinterpretation, they are putting them in darkness. They cannot understand Krsna. For practical example you can see in European countries the Bhagavad-gita was being studied at least for two hundred, three hundred years, but there was not a single devotee of Krsna, not even. Within the history. And now they are studying Bhagavad-gita As It Is, you will find thousands of krsna-bhaktas. They are not given the chance to understand Bhagavad-gita by misinterpretation. "This means that, this means that, Krsna means this, Kuruksetra means body." Misinterpretation, misled. Therefore we are presenting Bhagavad-gita as it is, and people are accepting and becoming seriously devotee of Krsna. They are surprised, the newspaper reporters. They inquire from me, "Swamiji, why younger generation is attracted with this movement?" And younger generation, they are inquisitive. Old fools, whatever they have learned they have to forget again. Then they will, it will take some time. They have learned something wrong. So one has to be washed of these wrong impressions; then he can come to the point of understanding Krsna. But these young hearts, they are receptive. They are seeing, "Here is nice." They are accepting. They are chanting now on the streets. You have heard that record, Hare Krsna?
Prabhupada: Yes, why not play it. Bring that record. On New York, Fifth Avenue, our sankirtana party is going on.
Prabhupada: And in London, Oxford Street, the most crowded street, just like our Bombay, Harley Road... So in the big, big cities they are now chanting Hare Krsna, dancing. People are enjoying. Harer nama harer nama harer nama eva kevalam [Cc. Adi 17.21]. You can play this record at home and dance in tune and enjoy.
Gopala Krsna: They are bringing it. This is the record, Every Town and Village. They are bringing the machine.
Prabhupada: We are arrested by the police sometimes. Sometimes there are big cases against us. In Ireland. Ireland?
Pradyumna: Ireland, Scotland, in Edinburgh, too.
Prabhupada: (laughing) These impediments are always there, even in Caitanya Mahaprabhu's time. The Kazi, the Mohammedan magistrate, he wanted to stop. (pause) Krsna tvadiya pada-pankaja-panjarantam [MM 33]. So you are devotee of Radharani. Eh? Yes, that is good. Through Radharani, one should approach Krsna. And therefore Vrndavana, they, everyone says, "Jaya Radhe," first of all glorifying Radharani. We have got many records. This is one of them, kirtana. (record starts playing) [break] (sounds of people leaving and Srila Prabhupada saying Hare Krsna to individual people) (Hindi) [break]
Guest (2) (Indian man): ...by working towards perfection in my duty...
Prabhupada: Yes, that perfection is to please Krsna. If by... You are doing everything. That's all right, but if by your working Krsna is satisfied, then that working is perfect. If Krsna is not satisfied, then it is useless, waste of time.
Guest (2): But how do I come to know that Krsna is satisfied?
Prabhupada: That you have to learn by Krsna consciousness. By becoming... Just like Krsna says, whatever Krsna says, you have to do that. Krsna says, man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru: [Bg. 18.65] "Always think of Me, become My devotee, offer your obeisances unto Me." Man-mana bhava. "Become My devotee." So if you abide by this, then Krsna is satisfied. Krsna says, yat karosi yaj juhosi yad asnasi yat tapasyasi kurusva tad mad-arpanam: [Bg. 9.27] "Whatever you are doing, it doesn't matter, but you do it for Me."
Guest (2): Without any selfish interest.
Prabhupada: Yes. You remain servant of Krsna. Just like a servant discharges his duty very faithfully for the satisfaction of the master, similarly, you have got industry, if you work in this industrial work for the satisfaction of Krsna... Just like this boy behind you, he is working somewhere, getting good salary. But I had told him that "some percentage you must give to Krsna." He is regularly giving.
Guest (2): If I feel I have love for Krsna, is that enough to be a devotee.
Prabhupada: But you must show how your love... Simply if you say... Suppose, anywhere in this material world, if you say somebody that "I love you," but there is no symptoms of love, then what kind of love? Love symptoms means dadati, giving. First symptom. Just like when a boy goes to love a girl, he brings something. That is ordinary etiquette. So first beginning of love is dadati, pratigrhnati. If I love you, I must give you. And if you offer me, I will take it, I will take something. Pratigrhnati. Exchange, giving and taking. Dadati pratigrhnati, bhunkte bhojayate. If you love somebody, give him to eat, and whatever he gives you, you also eat. Dadati pratigrhnati bhunkte bhojayate, guhyam akhyati prcchati. And if you love somebody then you disclose your mind to him and try to understand him also. By these six processes the symptoms of love is there. But if you say that "I love you," but there is no action...
Guest (2): That giving should be without any intention of taking.
Prabhupada: No, no profit making, no business that "I give you something. I must have something from you." No, no. Love means without any desire, anyabhilasita-sunyam [Brs. 1.1.11], without any motive. That is pure love. If I give you something without any motive, that is pure love.
Guest (3) (Indian man): (Hindi) ...there are three factors: one, duty towards God, duty towards the family, duty towards the business, duty towards the country, duty towards the society. Then how is he to balance himself in these duties?
Prabhupada: Duty, there are so many duties. Therefore Bhagavad-gita says,
"Those who are actually perfect, their buddhi is one. And those who are not perfect, their buddhi is distributed in so many ways." Just like you said, duties, so many, so many, this, that, this, that. But just like there are many branches and twigs and leaves and flowers in a tree, but if you pour water in the root, then it approaches everywhere.
Guest (3): Yes. Therefore the duty's also in the strongroom.
Prabhupada: Just try to understand that you must know how to discharge your duty. Because you do not know what is duty, therefore you are placing so many other duties, "Nationality, this is, this is..." krsna-bhakti kaile sarva-karma krta haya. If you become devotee... Just like your son. Is he not maintaining his family, is he not respecting his father, mother, he is not doing his duty in the service, he is doing his spiritual master? But the main principle is that he is devotee of Krsna. So if you become devotee of Krsna, you can discharge your duties properly; otherwise you cannot. It is not possible. If you want to pour water, leaf after leaf, it will be useless waste of time. But if you pour water in the center, on the root, it will go everywhere. Because he is devotee of Krsna, he knows how to discharge his duty towards his parents, how to discharge his duty to his wife, how to discharge his duties towards his spiritual master. He knows everything. But one who is not a devotee of Krsna, he does not know. He is simply confused. Sometimes jumping here, something jumping there, something jumping there. He does not know how to pour water.
Guest (1): But what should be the first step to become a devotee.
Prabhupada: Yes, dadati. That I have already explained. Dadati. He must give. Give. Everyone goes to God to beg, "God, give us our daily bread." But one must go to God to give Him. If I do not give bread to Krsna, he will be starving. This is devotee's mentality. Yasodamayi, Yasodamayi is thinking, Krsna, "If I do not feed Krsna well, my child will die." This is devotion. Otherwise everyone is asking from Krsna. But Yasoda-ma is thinking that "If I do not maintain Krsna properly, He will die." Therefore he (she) is always trying to supply everything, makhana, misri. So real love begins when you try to give God. Everyone is trying to take from God, "Oh father, give us our daily bread." This is not pure devotee. This is good because he has approached God, but this is not devotion. It is not devotion, it is..., means business "God, give me something, then I will love you." Is it not?
Guest (1): But giving means, you know, giving part of what you earn, or some other way. When you say give...
Prabhupada: Give means, you want to take something from God. "God, give me wealth, give me fame" Yaso dehi.
Guest (1): No, if we want to give to God...
Prabhupada: Yes, when you learn to give God. Generally...
Guest (1): Therefore, if a man feels empty, what he can offer?
Prabhupada: No, no, empty... God says that you can give Him patram puspam phalam toyam [Bg. 9.26]. You can give Him little flower, little fruit, little leaf, little water. He is satisfied. Not that you have to give millions of dollars. But if you have got millions of dollars, and if you think, "God will be satisfied with little fruit," that is cheating. God knows, "He is a cheater. He has got millions of dollars and offering me little leaf, little water." He is intelligent enough. He knows that he's a cheater. People do that. Bhakti in the mind God, and for others, garama garama puri. And for Krsna, within the mind, meditate. (laughter) God knows that "He is a cheater number one. He is preparing puri for himself, and for Me he is meditating." What is this nonsense? How meditation will help?
Guest (1): God expects something from you.
Prabhupada: God does not expect. It is for your good. If you are simply taking from God, now if you learn how to give God, that is your perfection. That is your perfection. Why God will ask from you? He is all perfect. He does not want. He is not hungry. He is feeding millions of living entities. Eko bahunam yo vidadhati kaman. Why God will ask from you? But if you give your life to God, then you become perfect. God is not want of, in your service or anything... He is complete. If he is not complete, he is not God. These are all mental concoctions. What you can do? What you have got to give charity?
Guest 4 (Indian man): What is the position of man...
Prabhupada: You are poor man, what you can give, charity? Why you are thinking that you can give in charity? Therefore God says, dadasi yat: "If you are thinking to make some charity, give it to Me. Come on." Just like Bali Maharaja was approached by Vamanadeva. The Supreme Lord went to Bali Maharaja, "Bali Maharaja, give Me some land." You see. So these are all mental concoctions. Therefore Bhagavad-gita says that "If you have got such mentality to give some charity, give it to Me. Come on." The first thing is you try to learn how to give God.
Guest (1): But Guruji, giving those who are in need, is not giving to God?
Prabhupada: That is your philosophy. That is your philosophy. Everyone is needy.
Guest (3): Now people... There are drought conditions, people are starving. Cattles are dying. There are no rains.
Prabhupada: Yes, because they are not God conscious, they are thinking like that. Now, suppose in the hospital, there are many patients. They are starving, many patients in the hospital. Do you know that or not? So why don't you give them food? They are starving. Why? Why don't you go to the hospital and you'll find hundreds of patients, they are starving... So similarly, why you are bothering? You are not bothering the hospital because you know that is right, they are starving. That is the physician's prescription. They must starve. So if you know God, then you will understand that you cannot help anyone. They are put into the starving condition under certain condition. So you cannot help them. You are simply thinking that "I will help." There are hundreds and thousands, millions of people starving. What you can do? Even if you try to give some something. Just like this Vivekananda philosophy, daridra-narayana-seva, to serve the poor Narayana. Narayana has become poor. These are manufactured things. This is not with reference to the authorized sastras or knowledge. What they can do? They raise subscription, huge subscription, on this plea, daridra-narayana-seva. And Swami Nikhilananda in New York, he personally said, "Now these Americans ask me that you take from us so much money for daridra-narayana-seva, but when we go to India, we see all these daridra-narayanas are lying on the footpath." What you are doing for them? What you can do? You are simply thinking falsely. What you have got to give? Just oil in your own machine. Try to understand God, instead of thinking foolishly, "Oh, what I shall do, this? What I shall do, that?" First, of all try to understand the situation.
Lady: (Hindi)
Prabhupada: (Hindi)
Guest (1): (Hindi)
Prabhupada: Hindi (end)
Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/conversations/1973/sep/bombay/september/19/1973 Previous: Room Conversation -- September 18, 1973, Bombay Next: Room Conversation with Banker -- September 21, 1973, Bombay
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