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Prabhupada: So Pariksit Maharaja inquired from Suta Gosvami, Sukadeva Gosvami, how the people in general, rotting in hellish life, could be saved. This is the desire of a Vaisnava. Others, they do not care whether one is suffering or enjoying. But a Vaisnava, a devotee of the Lord, he always thinks of the fallen condition of general people. Just like in Christian philosophy they believe that Lord Jesus Christ suffered to be crucified by assimilating all the sinful activities of the people. Yes. A devotee of Lord thinks like that. Similar devotee was Vasudeva Datta, Lord Caitanya's... He requested the Lord that "You have come. Kindly deliver all these people now present on this earth, and take them to Vaikuntha. And if You think that they are so sinful that they cannot be delivered, then please transfer all their sins unto me. I shall suffer. You take them." This is Vaisnava: "So for all their sins, I shall suffer. You take them." This philosophy is also expressed in Bible, Lord Jesus Christ, that he agreed to suffer himself for the sins of all the people. But that does not mean that Jesus Christ or Vasudeva Datta should make a contract for ourself and we shall go on committing sins. This is most heinous proposal. A Vaisnava and a devotee suffers for all humanity, human race. But that does not mean that human race, or the particular followers should take advantage of this facility and go on committing sins. That is not a good proposal. They should take rather seriously, that "Lord Jesus Christ or Vasudeva Datta who has suffered for us so much, we shall stop committing sins now." That is sane proposal. Otherwise, if I think, "Well, there is Vasudeva Datta and Lord Jesus Christ. He will suffer for us and let us go on merry-making. That's all." A most heinous life.
Anyway, everyone is responsible for his sinful activities. That's a fact. Therefore Sukadeva Gosvami recommends that tasmat, "Therefore," puraiva asu iha papa-niskrtau, "so long you are in this body, in order to get yourself free from all the reaction of sinful activities, you should atone." Yateta mrtyor avipadyata, avipadyatatmana, dosasya drstva guru-laghavam yatha bhisak cikitseta rujam nidanavit [SB 6.1.8]. According to the sinful activities, one should accept the prescription and program of atonement exactly like a..., a physician prescribes different type of medicines according to the gravity of the disease. The other day I was explaining. Just like the state law is that if you commit a murder, if you kill your fellow man, then you have to atone that sinful activity by being killed, by offering your life. That's a fact. Everyone knows it. You cannot escape. If you have killed one man... Of course, not man; if you kill even an ant, you are responsible for that, what to speak of man. Because that distinction is imperfect because this is man-made law. Man-made law, they're taking consideration of the man being killed. Another, the killer, must be killed. Why not an animal? The animal also a living entity. The man is also living entity. So if you have law that if a man kills one man he must be killed, why not if a man kills an animal he should be killed also? What is the reason? This is man-made law, defective. But there cannot be defect in God-made laws. God-made law, if you kill an animal, you are equally punishable as you kill a man. That is God's law. There is no excuse that he..., when you kill a man you are punishable, but when you kill an animal you are not punishable. This is concoction. This is not perfect law. Perfect law. Therefore Lord Jesus Christ prescribes in the Ten Commandments: "Thou shalt not kill." That is perfect law. Not that you shall discriminate that "I shall not kill man, but I shall kill animals." This is cheating one's self. The God laws will not excuse.
Therefore there are different atonements. According to Vedic law, if one cow dies while he's locked up on the neck... Because the cow is on the safe.(?) Somehow or other, it dies and the rope is round the neck, the proprietor of the cow has to make some atonement. Because it is to be supposed that the cow has died on account of being locked up with the rope, there is atonement. Now if you are willingly killing cows and so many animals, so how much we are being responsible? Therefore at the present moment there is war, and the human society becomes subjected to be killed in mass massacrethe nature's law. You cannot stop war and go on killing animals. That is not possible. There will be so many accidents for killing. The wholesale kill. When Krsna kills, He kills wholesale. When I killone after another. But when Krsna kills, they assemble all the killers and kill. Therefore there is atonement in the sastras. Just like in your Bible also there is atonement, confession, paying some fine. But after performing atonement, why people commits the same sin again? That is to be understood.
So Pariksit Maharaja is very intelligent. He's Vaisnava. He therefore inquires from Sukadeva Gosvami that,
rajovaca
drsta-srutabhyam yat papam janann apy atmano 'hitam karoti bhuyo vivasah prayascittam atho katham [SB 6.1.9] A man... Suppose a man... Of course, if..., if he commits murder, he's killed and gone. That's another thing. The, the Sukadeva Gosvami's proposal was that tasmat puraiva asu iha papa-niskrtau yateta mrtyor avipadyatatmana. "Before your death, next death comes, you should perform atonement so that you may not carry the sinful activities to suffer next life." If I do not commit, perform atonement for the commit, for the sinful activities, then nature will not excuse me. You'll have to take the effect of it and suffer in the next life. The law... As I explained the other day, that a murderer should be killed, that is mercy upon him. The, when the king orders... It is very old law. It is not new law, "Life for life." So that, when the king awards, or the judge, high-court judge, that "This man must be hanged," the judge is not the enemy of that man, but, according to law, in order to save him from further trouble in the next life, this prescription of hanging is there. The..., exactly like that: according to the disease, the prescription of medicine is there. Similarly, according to the gravity of the sinful activity, the atonement is there. If one has killed a man, he should be should be hangedaccording to the gravity of his sin. So that is showing mercy upon him. But, if he's not killed, then he'll be killed in so many ways. He'll be... Suppose something, some animal, and this man who has killed. He will take another birth and he will slaughter him. There are so many subtle laws. Mamsa. The word mamsa, Sanskrit. Mam means "me," and sa means "he." "As I am eating him just now, he will eat me next life." That is called mamsa. Mamsa khadati. This is the definition of mamsa, or flesh. Mamsa khadati. "As I am eating, enjoying now, palate, eating some animal, so he'll also eat me next life." This is called karma-bandhana. Karma-bandhana means being locked up in one's material activities. Yajnarthe karmanah anyatra karma-bandhanah. Yajna, Visnu..., if you act for Krsna, beyond this, whatever you act, you'll be under bondage. Just like I'm killing some animal, eating, enjoying, so it is karma-bandhana. I am being locked up with my action so that I shall become again a cow or goat, and this man, this cow and goat will become man, and he will kill me and eat. You believe or not believethat's a different thing. But these are the Vedic statement. And, practically, we are seeing that life for life. Why? Unless there is some meaning, why this punishment is there? Life for life.
So Suta Go..., Sukadeva Gosvami recommends that we should atone immediately, so long this body's there. Otherwise, we'll have to carry the effect and suffer next life. Unfortunately, at the present moment, people are educated in such a way that they do not believe in next life. They are so befooled. The education means to make people befooled. He has no knowledge actually. This is the education. The more you are educated, you don't believe in God, you don't believe in God's law. You don't believe your next life. You don't believe in sinful and pious activities. You become animal. That's all. More or less, you become animal. The modern education is like that, preparing so many animals. Therefore you don't mind if I tell you frankly that in spite of so many education and universities arrangement in your country, so much nice arrangement, you're producing hippies. Because that is no education. If the... A human being does not know what I am... I am this body? If this education is there, then he's no better than an ass. The ass also thinks that "I'm this body." The cow also thinks that "I'm this body." The dog also thinks that "I am this body." So if a human being thinks like that, cats, dogs and..., then what is the difference?
Yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke [SB 10.84.13]. The sastra says one who has accepted this body, which is made of three elements... According to Ayurveda, this body's made of three elements: kapha, pitta, vayumucus, bile and air. Development. There is great machinery within this body. You are taking food; you are transforming into liquid. Whatever you can absorb, that goes to become blood. And what you cannot absorb, that becomes urine. It comes out. Therefore in old age, or those who are diseased, they cannot absorb. They pass more urine. Therefore they become lean and thin, weak. They cannot make blood. So many machinery work is going on. And when that secretion comes to the heart, it turns into blood. Then the blood is distributed by air. It becomes solidified. It becomes flesh, it becomes muscle, it becomes bone. So many things are going on. But what we know? We say that "It is my body." What do you know about your body? Still he says that "I am God." He does not know what is going within his body, and still he's supposed to be God. So yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke [SB 10.84.13]. The, this bag of stool, urine, blood, bones, if one takes it that intelligence comes out of this stool, urines, and blood, and bone, then he's a fool. Can you create intelligence by taking stool and urine and bones and blood and mix it in laboratory, make some intelligence? Is it possible? But they're thinking like that. "I am this body."
Therefore sastra says,
yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke
sva-dhih kalatradisu bhauma ijya-dhih yat-tirtha-buddhih salile na karhicij janesv abhijnesu sa eva go-kharah [SB 10.84.13] Yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke. Anyone who has accepted this body as self and the bodily production or bodily relationship"Wife, children, family, they are my own men..." Yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke sva-dhih kalatradisu. Kalatra means wife. Kalatra adi. Adi means beginning. Because I am alone. As soon as I get, accept a wife, immediately there are children and then..., and children. Then expansion. So kalatra adi. Stri. Stri means "which expands." So kalatradisu, beginning from wife and other expansions, that is mine. Yasyatma-buddhih kunape tri-dhatuke sva-dhih kalatradisu bhauma ijya-dhih [SB 10.84.13]. Bhauma means the land, the land of birth. That is ijya-dhih, worshipable. People are giving life for the land wherein he's born. But he does not know that he's neither this land, nor this body, nor this wife, nor these children, nor this country, nor this society. He's spirit soul. Aham brahmasmi. This is realization of knowledge. When he comes to this knowledge, then he becomes happy.
brahma-bhutah prasannatma
na socati na kanksati samah sarvesu bhutesu mad-bhaktim labhate param [Bg. 18.54] When one comes to understand that "I'm spirit soul," aham brahma, "I'm not this matter," so immediately he becomes jolly, prasannatma. And what is the sign of jolliness? Na socati na kanksati. He has no more any hankering, no more any lamentation. Within this world, everyone is subjected to these categories of life. We are lamenting for the loss and we are hankering for some gain. But real gain is to understand oneself, what I am.
So, so long we have got this bodily concept of life, so long we have to abide by the laws of material nature, by the laws of the state, or any other laws. Because this body is conditional. Every one of us who are sitting in this meeting has got a different body. Because everyone is under different condition, varieties, varieties of condition. Therefore I'm responsible. If I do not atone for the sinful activities I'm doing within this body, then I have to suffer in my next body because I'll get another body according to my karma. Yam yam vapi smaran bhavam tyajaty ante kalevaram [Bg. 8.6]. Kalevaram means this body. That is a nature's law. So Sukadeva Gosvami recommended that considering the gravity of your sinful life, you should undergo a type of atonement. They are prescribed in the sastras. You have to do that. Otherwise, there is no rescue. Exactly like that, if you have committed murder, if you become killed here, then your sinful activities is neutralized. Otherwise, you'll have to suffer next life. So when a king orders a subject, or the state orders that "This man should be hanged," it is not cruelty to him. It is mercy. They do not know. It is a mercy. Otherwise why... Every state, anywhere you go, the law is there, "Life for life."
So atonement must be done. But King Pariksit Maharaja, he's very intelligent. He says, "All right, Sir, there is atonement. By performing some type of atonement I become free from the sinful activities." Suppose a man, he has committed murder and he's killed. So the sinful reaction of his committing a murder is neutralized. But it does not mean that next time, next life he'll not again kill another man. That is not guaranteed. Exactly like that, you are diseased, the physician gives you medicine, you are cured. But it is not guarantee that you'll not be attacked again by that type of disease. That is not guarantee. One man is suffering from venereal disease, and it is painful. Doctor gives some painful injection. Some way or other, he's cured, but again he's attacked with venereal disease, again comes to the doctor. There are many instances like that. A man has committed theft and he was punished. He was taken to the government custody and he was punished for six months or one year. And comes back. Again he commits the theft. Why? This is intelligent question. So, so Pariksit Maharaja inquires from Sukadeva that 'Atonement, that's all right. You are prescribing atonement. That is all right, to counteract the sinful activities. But why a man commits again the same sinful activities? What is the remedy for that?"
This is intelligent question. He says: drstva, drsta-srutabhyam yat papam [SB 6.1.9]. Drsta means just like one man sees this man has committed murder and he's hanged. Everyone sees. And in the lawbook it is said that if a man commits murder he'll be hanged. So sruta means we have heard it from authoritative sources; lawbook is authoritative source. Just like sastra. Sastra and lawbook is the same. Sastra means that which controls. Sas-dhatu. Sastra, sastra, sasana, sisya comes from the same root. Sisya. Sisya also comes from the same root. Sisya means one agrees voluntarily to be governed by the spiritual master. He's called sisya. And sasana, the government. So sastra means that regulates our daily activities. So here it is called... Sastra is learned by hearing, not by licking, not by seeing. Just like here is a sastra, bhagavat-sastra. You cannot learn it by seeing or by touching or... You have to learn it by hearing. Sas... This is called sruta. Therefore Vedas are called Srutis. Sruti. Tad-vijnanartham sa gurum eva abhigacchet samit-panih srotriyam brahma-nistham [MU 1.2.12]. So sruta, sruta means hearing from authoritative sources, either you take a scripture or lawbook. So one knows that in every sastra, every scripture, every lawbook, man is warned: "Don't commit theft; you'll be punished. Don't tell lie; you'll be punished. Don't do this; you'll be punished. Don't kill. Thou shalt not kill. Otherwise, you'll be punished." But nobody's caring. Why? What is the remedy for that? Everything is there. Drsta, practical experience, and sruta,... Sruta means heard also from authoritative sources. So he says, drsta-srutabhyam yat papam [SB 6.1.9]. Everyone knows it, janan, everyone knows that this is papa, this is sinful activity. Everyone knows. Nobody can say that "I do not know that is sinful activities." Who does not know that stealing is sinful, committing murder is sinful, or so many other things? So Pariksit Maharaja inquires that drsta-srutabhyam yat papam janann apy atmano 'hitam [SB 6.1.9]. "And he knows that 'It is not good for me; if I steal I'll be arrested, I'll be punished, I'll be put into jail. That is not a very comfortable life.' He knows that." Karoti bhuyo vivasah. "But he commits again and again, vivasah, as if forced by something, forced by something." Karoti bhuyo vivasah prayascittam atho katham [SB 6.1.9].
So Pariksit Maharaja immediately says, "What is the value of this atonement? If he is not corrected, checked that he should not commit such sin any more, then what is the value of prayascitta, katham? 'I have committed some sin. I do some atonement. Again I commit. Again I atone. I again I commit. I confess, and again I do the same thing.' So what is the use of such atonement?" His question is... Another question:
kvacin nivartate 'bhadrat
kvacic carati tat punah prayascittam atho 'partham manye kunjara-saucavat [SB 6.1.10] For the time being, when he's punished, he thinks, "I shall not commit what mistake I did." But as soon as he's out of the danger, he commits again. So kvacin nivartate abhadrat. Nivartate means he refrains, abhadrat, from abominable activities. Kvacic carati tat punah. And again sometimes he commits the same thing. Punah. Therefore habit is second nature. It is very difficult. The example that yasya hi yah svabhavasya tasya sa duratikramah.(?) Svabhava, one who has his habit, one who is habituated to do something, it is very difficult for him to give it up. The example is given: sva yadi kriyate raja sah kim na so uparhanam.(?) You can keep one dog in a royal position, but as soon as it will see one shoe there, immediately bitebecause he's a dog. The doggish quality's there. You may put him on the throne; that's doesn't matter. But the doggish quality, you cannot change. Similarly this svabhava. Svabhava means the material nature, material nature. We have acquired so many material nature, by association of the three modes of material nature, sattva-guna, rajo-guna, tamo-guna. So our habits are formed on account of our association with the three different qualities of material nature. But if we can disassociate ourself from the three modes of material nature, then our real nature, means spiritual nature, becomes invoked. That is the process of Krsna consciousness. If you remain Krsna conscious, then there is no chance of your associating with the three material modes of nature. That is the secret. Therefore you'll find our students, those who are habituated to so many bad things previously, they are able to stay in a platform where there is no such contamination.
So Krsna consciousness is such nice medicine. Unless you come to Krsna consciousness, your habits, formed by the association with the three modes of material nature, will continue. You cannot check it. They... Therefore, if you want to save yourself from this repetition of different types of birth and death, then you must come to Krsna consciousness. That is the medicine. In the Bhagavad-gita it is said, mam ca yo 'vyabhicarena bhakti-yogena sevate: [Bg. 14.26] "Anyone who is engaged in My transcendental loving service, bhakti-yoga, the devotional yoga..." Mam ca yo 'vyabhicarena bhakti-yogena sevate, sa gunan samatityaitan: [Bg. 14.26] "He can transcend the influence of these all these three qualities." Brahma-bhuyaya kalpate. "Immediately he's situated on the Brahman platform." So our Krsna consciousness movement is, without recommending this atonement or that atonement, which will not check him... You can go on, make many experiment of atonement, but the disease of the heart will remain. And you'll commit again sin. But as soon as you come to the Krsna platform, then you become free from the contamination. This is the advantage of Krsna consciousness. If you don't come to Krsna consciousness, then you may be relieved for the time being from the reaction of sinful activities, but you'll again commit.
So Pariksit Maharaja says, "This kind of committing sin and again become relieved by atone, atonement, repetition, it is just like kunjara-saucavat." He's giving very nice example. Kvacin nivartate abhadrat kvacic carati tat punah, prayascittam atho 'partham [SB 6.1.10]. "Therefore this atonement, to me, is nothing but waste of time." How it is waste of...? Kunjara-saucavat. The example, kunjara means elephant. The elephant cleanses the body very nicely in the water, in the lake, or some water, reservoir, but as soon as comes on the shore takes some dust and overthrows. Those who have seen, that have got experienceimmediately the whole body becomes dirty. Immediately taking... Just like we, human beings, we go to the bathroom and cleanse ourself with soap and water, and then we feel comfortable. We do not again take some dirty things and throw over it. But the elephant, animal, does it. These are our examples. So Pariksit Maharaja said that "You may become cleansed by the atonement process, or you may be relieved from the disease by taking some medicine, but if again you commit, then what is the use of this treatment or use of this atonement?"
So this is the second question of Pariksit Maharaja to Sukadeva Gosvami, very important question, that how one can ultimately become free from all contamination of these material modes of nature? Otherwise, what is the use of atonement? So that isI've told you in summarythat unless one comes to Krsna consciousness, there is no possibility of being freed from this repetition of committing sins and atonement. So, so Sukadeva Gosvami is replying:
nasnatah pathyam evannam
vyadhayo 'bhibhavanti hi evam niyamakrd rajan sanaih ksemaya kalpate [SB 6.1.12] So we shall discuss this prescription tomorrow again. It is a long discussion. Thank you very much. What is that?
Devotee: He said that he'd like to submit some questions.
Narayana: Prabhupada..., question? (pause) Could you elaborate on the position of the person who comes to Krsna consciousness and is chanting Hare Krsna and has committed all these sinful activities in this lifetime. For instance, let's say a person has been in the, involved in the Vietnam War due to his relation with the material world and has been drawn into this activity. And now he's in Krsna consciousness. How is he then relieved of the law of karma for his activity?
Prabhupada: You come and live with us. That's all. Is it very difficult? Our students, they are living with us. You simply come and live with usyou are free from all karma. Is it difficult? Then do that. We shall give you food, we shall give you shelter, we shall give you nice philosophy. If you want to marry, we shall give you good wife. What you want more? So come and live with us. That's all. That I've already explained: mam ca yo 'vyabhicarena bhakti-yogena sevate [Bg. 14.26]. We employ you immediately in the devotional service of Lord, and you become free. Krsna says, not that we have concocted this idea. Krsna says that "Anyone who's engaged in My devotional service, without any hypocrisy, avyabhicarena, then immediately he's freed, immediately." And in another place Krsna says,
sarva-dharman parityajya
mam ekam saranam vraja aham tvam sarva-papebhyo moksayisyami ma sucah [Bg. 18.66] So this assurance is there. You believe it and see, practically. You hear and you see practically, what is being done. What is the difficulty? So increase the volume of the society. The whole world will be happy. That's a fact. That's all right. Join us. Try to understand the philosophy, and preach, make others happy. Krsna will be pleased upon you. Then your life is successful. (end)
Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/classes/sb/6/1/8-13/new_york/july/24/1971 Previous: Srimad-Bhagavatam 6.1.9 -- Honolulu, May 10, 1976 Next: Srimad-Bhagavatam 6.1.10 -- Los Angeles, June 23, 1975
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