Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 6.1.34–39 – December 19, 1970, Surat

701219SB-SURAT [48:51 Minutes]

Prabhupada: [referring to microphone] It does not stand here. Hmm. There are so many ladies.

Guest (1): And there are so many English devotees.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Guest (1): English devotees.

Prabhupada: That's all right. [Hindi] So the constables of Yamaraja, they are describing the bodily features of the Visnuduta. You can have an idea of the Visnuloka, or Vaikuntha-loka. From this study, we have to understand that there is a spiritual sky, and that is far, far extensive than the material sky.

You cannot even measure the sky covered by one universe, and there are innumerable universes. That is... All together, that is one-fourth of the whole sky. It is a rough estimate only, according to the Vedic scripture. And the three-fourths of the sky is spiritual sky.

The population in the spiritual sky is far, far greater than the material sky. Only a few living entities who are rebelled. Just like the population in the prison house is insignificant compared to the whole population of the state, similarly, the living entities who are here in this material world, they are very insignificant.

Including all the universes, all the planets together, they are an insignificant portion of the whole living entities. Ananta. Hy anantaya kalpate [Cc Madhya 19.140]. The living entities, there is no counting, ananta, unlimited number of living entities. Therefore in the Vedas, the living entities are plural, but God is one. Nityo nityanam cetanas cetananam [Katha Upanisad 2.2.13].

Then,

This is another description of the feature. Sarve ca nutna-vayasah. In the Vaikuntha-loka, the inhabitants are always young, just like Krsna or Visnu is always young. There is no old age. Old age is here in this material world, because this material body becomes old, not the spirit soul. Spirit soul is always fresh. Nityah sasvato 'yam na hanyate hanyamane sarire.

So they are describing that "You are... You look all just very young." And sarve caru-caturbhujah: "And you are beautifully embodied with four hands." Sarve caru-caturbhujah.

[aside:] What is that?

Dhanur-nisaṅgasi-gada-saṅkha-cakrambuja-sriyah: "And exactly like Visnu, you have got dhanur, bows; and saṅkha, conchshell; cakra, disc; gada, club; and ambuja, padma, lotus flower. Everyone." That means everyone in the Vaikuntha-loka, they are exactly like the bodily feature of the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Narayana.

This is called sarupya-mukti. There are five kinds of liberation. This liberation, to have the same bodily feature like Narayana, is called sarupya, "the form exactly like Visnu." Sarupya-mukti. There are five kinds of liberations: sayujya, salokya, sarupya, sarsti, samipya [Cc Madhya 6.266]. So these Mayavadi philosophers, they prefer sayujya, to merge into the existence of impersonal existence.

A living entity can live, can remain in the Brahman effulgence as a particle of shining. Just like there are many molecular particles in the sunshine, similarly, the living entities also can cluster together and live as a small particle of spiritual shining, and that is called brahma-sayujya-mukti . But that kind of existence is subjected to falldown again.

Because the living entities, they want varieties of enjoyment, but in that impersonal existence there is no varieties of enjoyment, therefore, when they desire varieties of enjoyment, they have come to this material world. So even they merge into the effulgence of brahma-jyoti, there is cause, there is chance of falling. Not all. Some of them may go to the planets, but there is chance.

"You are so brilliant that immediately on your appearance the darkness is dissipated. Immediately." They are so much, I mean to say, glowing, their body, in Vaikuntha. Therefore in the Upanisad it is said that in the Vaikuntha-loka, in the spiritual sky, there is no need of sun, moon.

The planets and the bodily effulgence of the inhabitants, they are all glowing. So on account of everything glowing in the spiritual world, there is no necessity of sunshine or moonshine or electricity. They are self-effulgent.

"You are so brilliant, you appear to be very," I mean to say, "enlightened and coming from some planets." Because they had no exactly idea what kind of planet they live. They are simply suggesting that "You must be coming from some very exalted planet. But why you are interfering with our business?"

Kim artham dharma-palasya. Dharma-pala. Yamaraja's another name is Dharmaraja or Dharmapala. He is one of the authorities. There are twelve authorities mentioned in the sastras. Brahma is one authority, Lord Siva is one authority and Narada is one authority. Then Manu is one authority, Prahlada Maharaja is authority, Bali Maharaja is authority, Sukadeva Gosvami is authority. So similarly, Yamaraja is also authority. They are authorities who know exactly what is God, or Krsna, and they can direct.

Therefore sastra says you have to follow the authorities. Otherwise it is not possible. Dharmasya tattvam nihitam guhayam mahajano yena gatah sa panthah [Cc Madhya 17.186]. You cannot understand the path of religion by your mental speculation. Dharmam tu saksad bhagavat-pranitam [SB 6.3.19]. Dharma, religious principles, are enacted by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. No ordinary man can enact dharma.

Therefore there is dharma-viparya. Real dharma, actual dharma, is to abide by the words of the Supreme Lord. That is dharma. Just like Krsna says, mam ekam saranam [Bg 18.66]. That is dharma, simply to surrender unto Krsna. Otherwise it is not dharma. Man-made dharma is no dharma. That is called kaitava-dharma, cheating dharma. You cannot manufacture religion. But nowadays it has become fashion. Everyone is manufacturing his own religion. Therefore there is dharma-viparya.

So one should know that dharma means the laws given by God. That is dharma. And such dharma, or the path of dharma, is strictly followed by these mahajanas. Just like Brahma, Lord Siva, Narada, Manu, Kapila..., Kapiladeva, Kapiladeva who enunciated saṅkhya philosophy... Svayambhur naradah sambhuh kapilo manuh, prahlado bhismah [SB 6.3.20]. Bhismadeva is also authority. You know Bhismadeva, the grandfather of the Pandavas. He is also authority. Prahlada, Bhisma... Bali Maharaja is also authority.

So we have to follow these authorities. Otherwise there is no possibility of understanding what is religion, what is God. This... Our this sampradaya, Madhva-Gaudiya sampradaya, they are following the authorities of Lord Brahma and Narada. Similarly, there is another sampradaya, Rudra-sampradaya. Rudra-sampradaya. And there is another sampradaya, coming from Laksmiji, Sri-sampradaya, Ramanuja.

So we have to accept religious principles from the leaders of the sampradaya. Otherwise it is useless. Sampradaya-vihina ye mantras te viphala matah [Padma Purana]: "If you do not accept mantra initiation from the disciplic succession of the sampradaya, then it will be useless." Sampradaya-vihina ye. So people are manufacturing religion without any reference to these authorities.

So diso vitimiralokah kurvantah svena tejasa. Svena: "By your own effulgence you are dissipating the darkness, all directions. You are so bright, brilliant." Kim artham dharma-palasya: "Oh, we can understand that you are not ordinary living entities. You are coming from some exalted planet. But what business you have got to interfere with our business?" Dharma-palasya.

When they were addressed by the assistants of Yamaraja, then the representative of Vasudeva, vasudevokta-karinah, those who are followers of the order of Vasudeva... Representative...

[aside:] Again you have to stand, please.

Tan pratyucuh prahasyedam megha-nirhradaya gira. Now, the Visnuduta, they began to speak in a very grave language, just like resounding the cloud. [reads Sridhara Swami commentary:] Kim anya-lokasyanyasya prakasa yat tu tatha bhuta disah kurvantah bhavatam anusitam yam ity ahuh kim artham ity aha.

Indirectly, the Yamadutas said that "You are so exalted, so it is not very good for you to interfere with our business." They politely submitted. And... [commentary:] Ato dandyadandya-jnana-sunya iti saura evaksnod dhiya dharma-rajasya kiṅkara ity anvitam vadanti visayena prahasya tan pratyucuh.

Now, Sridhara Swami is commenting why they were smiling, these Visnuduta, because the Yamadutas were criticizing, "Why you are interfering?" The Yamadutas did not know that whatever action is taken by the representative of Visnu, they are not, I mean to say, unnecessarily interference; they are actual fact.

Therefore they are smiling, that "These Yamadutas, without knowing our position, they are trying to criticize us." So they were smiling. Prahasya, prahasya. Just like if a child speaks something to a learned man, he smiles. So Visnuduta were smiling, hearing the Yamadutas.

Meghasya eva nirhrada hanir yasya prayatah: "They began to speak in grave," I mean to say, "voice, as if the thundering cloud."

"You are claiming to be representative of Dharmaraja, Yamaraja." Yamaraja is Dharmaraja. So Visnuduta knows that they are representative. So he challenged..., the Visnudutas challenged the Yamadutas, that "You are accusing us that we are interfering with your business which is entrusted unto you by the Dharmaraja, the maintainer of dharma. Would you kindly explain what is dharma and what is adharma?" It is very intelligent answer. Yuyam vai dharma-rajasya: "If you are actually representative."

Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu said that yei krsna tattva-vetta sei guru haya [Cc Madhya 8.128] "If anyone is representing as guru, he must know Krsna." He must know. Krsna cannot be known, but at least... Just like Krsna says, yo janati tattvatah [Bg 4.9], that...

One must know Krsna in fact, tattvatah, in truth. He can become guru. Otherwise, guru is not a..., so cheap post that everyone can become guru. Similarly, here is the challenge, that "If you are representative of Dharmaraja, you must explain what is dharma and what is adharma." That should be the criterion of test. Not that everyone should be accepted as religious, everyone should be accepted as guru.

This ignorance of the population has created so many nonsense as representing as guru and dharma-jna. No. Tasmad gurum prapadyeta [SB 11.3.21]. The Vedic injunction says, tasmad gurum prapadyeta jijnasuh sreya uttamam, sabde pare ca nisnatam. One is advised... First of all, who will accept a guru?

Guru is not a plaything, that "I must have a guru, and I will never care to obey his order, but because it is a fashion to keep a guru, I shall keep a guru." That kind of guru is useless, and that kind of disciple is also useless. One must seek after a guru-when? When he is inquisitive to understand the transcendental knowledge. Jijnasuh sreya uttamam.

It is not a fashion. It should be very serious: one who is very much eager to understand transcendental knowledge, sreya uttamam. Jijnasuh sreya. Sreyah and preyah. There are two kinds of paths. Preyah means immediate satisfaction or sense gratification, and preyah means spiritual happiness, er, sreyah. Sreyah means spiritual happiness. Just like children, they are interested with playing-that is preyah-whereas the elderly person, they are interested to give education.

So people... What is the meaning of this preaching? Why we are taking interest in preaching Krsna consciousness? Because the people in general, they are interested in preyah for their sense gratification, immediate sense gratification. But that is not good for them. Bhagavata says, nunam pramattah kurute vikarma yad indriya-pritaya aprnoti [SB 5.5.4]

PURPORT "Simply for sense gratification, they are committing so many sinful activities. It is like..., just like madman." A madman does not know what he is doing. Similarly, the materialistic persons, they are so much engrossed and become maddened to commit everything simply for sense gratification. Indriya-priti.

So Rsabhadeva says, "It is not good. It is very risky life." If we indulge in sense gratification, Krsna will give us facilities for sense gratification. Just like a monkey. A monkey has very good facility for sex life. A monkey, every monkey has got at least three dozen wives. Perhaps you know it. So he has been given the facility for sense gratification: "All right." But what is his position? He is a monkey. [laughter] Therefore it is called markata-vairagya [Cc Madhya 16.238].

Markata-vairagya means that a monkey is renounced. He does not dress, naked. And he lives in the forest. And he eats also fruit, vegetarian. But the nature is that he must have at least three dozen wives. You see? So the so-called sadhus or so-called vairagis, having illicit sex life very secretly, they are just like monkeys. So Rupa Gosvami has said markata-vairagya. Markata-vairagya.

So markata-vairagya is not necessary. Real vairagya. We do not indulge in so-called sannyasi or brahmacari. If one is unable, he must become a grhastha, live like a grhastha, and not that "I pose myself as a brahmacari or a sannyasi, but I have got illicit sex life secretly." This is markata-vairagya. Markata-vairagya is not wanted. Real vairagya. Real vairagya means one who can sacrifice everything for Krsna. That is vairagya. Karma-phala-tyaga-that is karma-yoga. One should give up the result of his fruitive activities to Krsna. That is karma-yoga.

Anasritah karma-phalam karyam karma karoti yah [Bg 6.1]. Anasritah karma-phalam. One who is not desirous to enjoy the fruits of his activities, fruitive activities, anasritah karma-phalam, but does it as a matter of duty... "Krsna wants it. Krsna will be satisfied by doing this." Karyam: "It must be done." Just like Arjuna. Arjuna, for his personal interest, he was not willing to fight. But when he understood that "Krsna wants this fighting," then he took it as karyam: "It must be done. It doesn't matter whether I like it or not, but Krsna wants it. Therefore I must do it."

That is called anasritah karma-phalam karyam karma karoti yah, sa sannyasi [Bg 6.1]. He is sannyasi. Na niragnir na cakriyah. Niragnir and akriya. Akriya means they are freed, all kinds of fruitive activities. So they are not sannyasis, they are not yogis, but a yogi is he who gives away the result of his activities to Krsna. Anasritah karma-phalam karyam karma karoti yah.

So he is asking... Visnuduta uvaca, yuyam vai dharma-rajasya yadi nirdesa-karinah. It is a challenge: "So you are claiming that you are representative of Dharmaraja. So we want to know from you what is dharma." Just like yesterday some gentleman came. He said that he has performed yoga, and he has become Narayana. Was not? Was not he speaking?

Guest: He has not come in here. He is not here.

Prabhupada: Oh. So naturally... Just like somebody says that "I am God. I have become God by mystic yoga," so one should challenge him, "What kind of God you are? Whenever there is toothache, you go to the doctor immediately. And you are God?" So I have seen. I have seen one man in America. He had some disciples, some.

And he was claiming everyone is God, he is God. And one day he was suffering from toothache. So I asked him, "What kind of God you are, that you are so much painful, suffering from toothache?" And actually, one should challenge these... And they are, practically, another kind of lunatic who claim that "I am God."

So similarly, this challenge is given by the Visnudutas to the Yamadutas, that "You are representative of Dharmaraja. Now explain what is dharma and what is adharma." Bruta dharmasya nas tattvam yac ca adharmasya laksanam. Tattva, laksanam: the symptoms of adharma and the truth of dharma.

"Now explain who is subjected to the punishment of Yamaraja. You have come here to take away this Ajamila to the court of Yamaraja. But first of all explain who is actually subjected to go to the court of Yamaraja for being punished."

This is the question, and we shall discuss tomorrow about the answer. Hare Krsna.

[devotees offer obeisances] [break]

Yamuna: What is adhut? What is the word adhut?

Prabhupada: Dut? Avadhuta. Paramahamsa. Paramahamsa stage, the highest stage of perfection. They are not under any rules and regulation, paramahamsa.

Yamuna: How does such a person engage?

Prabhupada: That's a long history. You'll find in the Bhagavad-gita, sthita-prajnasya. Sthita-prajna. So there are many symptoms. On the whole, avadhuta or paramahamsa is not subjected to any rules and regulation. They are so elevated. That is not to be imitated.

That is a post, position, very exalted, perfectional stage, spiritual advancement. So if you want to know the symptoms, that is in the Bhagavad-gita. There is a list. But one thing you can simply know, a paramahamsa is a stage who is above all rules and regulations. That's all.

Hamsaduta: [indistinct] disturbed.

Prabhupada: Another nonsense. That's all.

Revatinandana: So if he continues to follow these rules and regulations...

Prabhupada: He doesn't follow. He doesn't follow. I can... I understand from his behavior.

Revatinandana: But generally they do follow, in the sense that they generally...

Prabhupada: No, no. Paramahamsa...

Revatinandana: For setting example for others?

Prabhupada: Yes. Paramahamsa, they do not come in the society, because the people may imitate and they fall down. Therefore they are aloof. Just like Gaura Kisora dasa Babaji Maharaja. He was aloof, bhajananandi. But one who will act as preacher or spiritual master, even if he is paramahamsa, he should live ordinarily, so that his disciples may follow. He comes to second stage. Paramahamsa is the first stage, and preacher is in the second stage, and neophytes are in the third stage.

So the neophyte should try to come to second stage. Isvare tad-adhinesu balisesu dvisatsu [SB 11.2.46]. They have got discrimination: Isvara, Bhagavan, the Supreme Personality of Godhead; tad-adhina, the devotees; balisa, innocent; and dvisat, those who are atheists, envious of... As soon as they hear that "Here is something going on, talking about God," they become immediately envious. We have increased the number of this kind of men. They are no more interested in God. They simply challenge. They are called dvisat. So a preacher should avoid them. But the paramahamsa, he does not avoid.

So there are so many things. So we haven't got to imitate the activities or... A paramahamsa is a position, exalted position. They are very rare to be visible, because they do not care to come in the society. So..., and if you want to know about the paramahamsa, the sthita-prajna description in the Bhagavad-gita, I think, in the Twelfth Chapter, you can know it. Hmm?

Malati: Prabhupada? Can you explain more about preyah and sreyah?

Prabhupada: Yes. Sreyah means ultimate benefit, and preyah means immediate sense gratification. That is called... That is the difference between sreyah and preyah. [pause] That's all right.

Revatinandana: So the transcendentalists are sreyah? And the karmis and others are...

Prabhupada: Yes, they are after preyah. Those who are after sreyah, they should follow the catur-asrama, varnasrama. The varnasrama, according to Vedic system, the four kinds of varnas, or social caste, and four kinds of spiritual order, asramas, that is the beginning of preyah. Without this acceptance of these principles, according to Vedic principles, one is not considered as a human being or civilized man. Because that is a system, if we follow that system, gradually we rise to the platform of sreyah. If anyone does not follow regulative principles, it is very hard for him to come to the standard of sreyah.

But in this age, in Kali-yuga, every man is so fallen that he cannot follow any regulative principles according to the Vedic system. As such, they have been accepted as sudras. Kalau sudra-sambhavah [Skanda Purana]

"In this age everyone should be accepted as sudra." But then how to elevate them? For elevating them, this..., not the Vedic system is to be followed, but pancaratriki. Pancaratriki... Just like we are trying to elevate these Europeans and Americans according to pancaratriki-vidhi. Everyone should be followed. It is not that Indians should not follow, only the others should. No. It is for everyone, pancaratriki-vidhi.

The pancaratriki-vidhi means that if anyone has got little tendency for being elevated to the sreyah platform, he should be given chance. That is called pancaratriki-vidhi. Just like diksa, initiation. Sudras are not given initiation. A sudra cannot be initiated. Only the brahmanas can be initiated, or dvija, or the vaisyas and the ksatriyas, the higher caste, not the sudras. But according to pancaratriki-vidhi, even the sudras or less than the sudras, kirata-hunandhra-pulinda-pulkasa [SB 2.4.18] Everyone can be initiated by a bona fide representative of Krsna; not by others. That is the system.

Devotee: Does one become elevated by following the karma-yoga principles only?

Prabhupada: It will take a long, long time, and failure is possible. In this age, nothing is possible for the fallen people.

This is the injunction. If you want to be elevated to the perfectional stage of life, then you must chant this Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna, Hare Hare. That will help you. No other method, measures, will help you. You can try for it, but there is every chance of failure. But if you follow this path, as enunciated by the sastras and elaborated by Lord Caitanya, then there is chance. And actually we are seeing that is being done.

Revatinandana: In the First Chapter, God Realization booklet, First Chapter, Second Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam, the process described there where it says that the gross materialists can begin meditating on the syllable om, and then try to contemplate the universal form. That is not recommended for this age, right?

Prabhupada: No, that is not for the advanced stage. Those who cannot... Just like the materialistic person, they cannot understand why we are worshiping Deity. They are puzzled. They think, "Why these fools are taking one brass doll and worshiping as God?" They laugh. You see? They cannot understand. They are hard... What is called?

It is impossible for them. Therefore they have been recommended that "You think of God, the universal form." That they like, their meditation, that universal form. They cannot understand or concentrate on this form, krsnas tu bhagavan svayam [SB 1.3.28], dvi-bhuja-muralidhara, Syamasundara form.

They cannot.

But by this arca process we are giving chance to everyone. But for the materialistic person it is difficult. They think that they are idol worshiper. But actually, the Vaisnavas, they are not so fools that they will worship an idol. Therefore they have been recommended to concentrate on the universal form.

Revatinandana: We always encourage the chanting of Hare Krsna. Is that so? [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Yes. That is the only method in this age. By chanting Hare Krsna, one's... The reservoir of understanding will be cleared. And then you can receive..., he can receive the spiritual knowledge. Without cleansing the heart it is very difficult to understand and receive spiritual knowledge. All these reformatory measures-brahmacari, grhastha, vanaprastha-they are simply the cleansing method.

And bhakti is also cleansing method, vidhi-bhakti. But by engaging oneself in this Deity worship, he also becomes cleansed. Tat-paratve... Sarvopadhi... As he becomes enlightened, or advanced in understanding that he is eternal servant of Krsna, he becomes purified. He becomes purified. Sarvopadhi means he doesn't... Sarvopadhi. He tries to eliminate his upadhi, his designation, that "I am American," "I am Indian," "I am this," "I am that."

So in this way, when you become fully eliminated of this bodily concept of life, then nirmalam. He becomes nirmala, uncontaminated. And so long this concept of life is going on, that "I am this," "I am that," "I am that," he's still in the... Sa bhaktah prakrtah smrtah [SB 11.2.47].

[aside:] Sit down properly, not like that.

Sa bhaktah prakrtah smrtah. Arcayam eva haraye... Even in this process, when they are engaged in Deity worship, arcayam haraye yat-pujam sraddhayehate, with great devotion doing, but na tad bhaktesu canyesu, but he has no sympathy with others or he does not know what is the position of a devotee, then sa bhaktah prakrtah smrtah: "He is called material devotee." Material devotee.

So we have to elevate ourselves from material devotional stage to the second platform, when one can understand what is a devotee, what is a nondevotee, what is God, what is atheist. These discriminations are there. And in paramahamsa stage there is no such discrimination.

He sees everyone is engaged in service of the Lord. He does not envy anyone, he does not see anything, anybody. But that is another stage. We should not imitate, try to imitate, but we may know that paramahamsa is the highest stage of perfection. [pause]

Just like as a preacher we have to point out... Just like I told this boy, "You sit down like this." But a paramahamsa will not say. A paramahamsa, he sees, rather: "He is all right." He sees. But we should not imitate paramahamsa. Because we are preacher, we are teacher, we should not imitate paramahamsa. We must tell the right source, right course.

Revatinandana: You must be higher than the paramahamsa stage, Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: I am lower than you. I am lower than you.

Revatinandana: You are so beautiful. You are paramahamsa, but still, you are preaching to us.

Prabhupada: No, I am lower than you. I am the lowest of the all creatures. I am simply trying to execute the order of my spiritual master. That's all. That should be the business of everyone. Try best. Try your best to execute the higher order. That is the safest way of progressing.

One may be in the lowest stage, but if he tries to execute this duty entrusted upon him, he is perfect. He may be in lowest stage, but because he is trying to execute the duty entrusted to him, then he is perfect. That is the consideration. [end]