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atha cainam nitya-jatam
nityam va manyase mrtam
tathapi tvam maha-baho
nainam socitum arhasi
So this is the opinion of the modern scientists or the Buddha philosophy, that soul, there is nothing like soul separately, but by combination of matter, at a certain stage, the living symptoms are manifest. And as it is combination of several chemicals, so it is also finished as soon as the body is finished. There is no, nothing as soul. That is their opinion. So for argument's sake, Krsna says, "If you think like that, that the body is all in all..., by certain condition, the material elements combine, and again it is finished..." So Arjuna was declining to fight. So the, for argument's sake, Krsna says that "If you think like that, the body's everything, so it will be destroyed automatically. So why you are so much afraid?" Suppose I have combined some chemicals and it is destroyed... Say, bottles of chemicals, some way or other, it is destroyed. So who laments for that? You can purchase another bottle. That is simply for argument's sake. Actually, that is not the position. Now, if you think that the combination of chemicals can produce living force, then why don't you do it in the laboratory? The chemicals are there. You can combine and just produce a small ant, moving. Then it is... Science means observation and experiment. So if you simply observe, and cannot make any experiment, practical, so then that is not science. That is only theory. That is not possible. No scientist has ever made any living entity by combination of chemicals in the laboratory. Nobody can do that. (pause)
Jatasya hi dhruvo mrtyuh. "It is a fact that by the cycle of birth and death, one who dies, he has to accept again another body. So why you are deviating from your duty?"
The warfare of the ksatriyas and the warfare at the present moment of the whimsical politicians, it is, they are different. Formerly it was not democracy. Only the ksatriyas would fight. Especially the king, the royal order, they should come forward. Not that the politicians are sitting very comfortably at home, and poor people, they are given to fight in front of the enemy. No. That was not the system. The king must come forward. The other side, the king also come. And the opposite side, they also, he also should come forward and fight. It was duty. And as soon as the king is killed by the other party, then the other party becomes victorious. There was no more fighting. It is not the so-called king and president is sitting very comfortably and the poor soldiers, they are fighting unlimitedly, and the war is going on for many years. Just like last war we saw at least eight years it continued. Eight years, six years, no. The Battle of Kuruksetra, it was finished within eighteen days. There is no use of prolonging the war unnecessarily. If the chief man is killed, then war is finished. Therefore Krsna is advising Arjuna that "Suppose your grandfather on the other side dies, so where is the cause of lamentation? He's old man. He will get another, new body. So you should be rather happy that your old grandfather is going to have a new body." Jatasya hi dhruvo mrtyuh. "And everyone will die. You die today or tomorrow, or, say, fifty years after. You have to die. It is as sure as death. So why should you deviate from your duty? You are a ksatriya. Your duty is to fight. Why you are afraid of being dead, or killing others? This is your duty."
So the body was not existing before. And it will not exist after death. So in the via media, if the manifestation of body is there, so why it should be the object of lamentation? In this way, Krsna is trying to convince Arjuna that he should act as ksatriya and perform his duty. A ksatriya is profited, either dead or alive. That will be explained. Because in a, in a fighting, I mean to say, real religious fighting, on principle, it is, a ksatriya is not responsible for killing. Just like in sacrificial ceremony, if the animal is killed, the brahmana is not responsible for killing an animal. So because it is duty, it is ordained by the sastras, therefore they are not ordinary killing. Avyakta-nidhanany eva tatra ka pari... "It was nonmanifested before, and it will become nonmanifested again. So why should you lament for the via media?"
ascaryavat pasyati kascit enam
ascaryavad vadati tathaiva canyah
ascaryavac cainam anyah srnoti
srutvapy enam veda na caiva kascit
There are many theories and philosophical speculation all over the world about understanding the soul. Therefore Krsna is concluding that "Somebody's explaining wonderfully, somebody is hearing wonderfully, but even after hearing and speaking, it remains a mystery, and less intelligent person cannot understand it." That is the fact. There are so many theories. Therefore we have to accept the reality from the authority. By theorizing, by speculating, we cannot come into any decision. I may be very good logician. You may be greater logician. So you can defeat my logic. I can defeat your logic. So what is the conclusion? This kind of talking, it is called ku-tarka, unnecessarily talking, because you'll not come to my decision, I'll not come to your decision. So everyone is mysterious.
So in this way we cannot understand which is beyond the perception of our knowledge. Acintyah khalu ye bhava na tams tarkena yojayet. Things which are beyond our perception, you, we should not simply try to understand by logic and argument. It is useless waste of time, because nobody can decide theory. The modern so-called scientists, they also write like that: "Perhaps," "It may be," like that. "It may be millions of years. It was like this." "It may be." What is the value of saying "It may be." Say definitely. That they cannot do. All the scientists" theory like "Perhaps," "Maybe." "Perchance, if it comes to be true..." So such kind of argument has no value. Therefore our sastra says: acintyah khalu ye bhavah. Beyond your perception, beyond your sense perception, don't try to understand it by argument and logic. Then how to know it? Know it from the person who knows it. That is knowledge. Just like we are trying to get knowledge about the soul, not by experiment, but we are trying to understand from the words of Krsna. Krsna is the authority. So He says, in the beginning: dehino 'smin yatha dehe kaumaram yauvanam jara [Bg. 2.13]. We can... Krsna says, and we can think over it and ponder over it. Then we come to conclusion. And the other process, Vedic process, is:
yasya deve para bhaktir
yatha deve tatha gurau
tasyaite kathita hy arthah
Our process is descending process. We are not trying to understand by the ascending process. Inductive or deductive. We accept the statements of the Vedas. Therefore we haven't got to make much effort to understand a thing. Veda-vacana, sruti, sruti-pramana. There are three kinds of evidences: direct perception, and evidence from the Vedas, and evidence from history. Aitihya. Pratyaksa, aitihya, sruti. Three kinds of evidences. So pratyaksa and aitihya is neglected. According to our Vedic system, sruti-pramana, if it is statement, the statement is there in the sruti, in the Vedas, then we accept. We have got a society in India. They call veda-pramana. "We cannot accept without it is not mentioned in the Vedas." That's a, that's nice. But there is another class who are described in the Bhagavad-gita by Krsna Himself: veda-vada-ratah. They are simply unnecessarily fight on the basis of so-called Vedic knowledge. Vedic knowledge must be understood from the guru. That is injunction. They defy that. They... The Vedic injunction is... Kathopanisad. Tad-vijnanartham sa gurum eva abhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. You... To understand the Vedas, you must approach a guru. Otherwise, you cannot understand. Just like it is forbidden that without becoming a brahmana, nobody should read Vedas. Because he cannot understand. Unless one is qualified brahmana, unless one has approached another qualified brahmana who knows, there is no question of understanding Vedas. Just like Max Muller translated Veda. What does he know about Veda? Such kinds of translation, understanding, is useless. Tad-vijnanartham sa gurum eva abhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. Abhigacchet means "He must!" There is not that "I may go or I may not." No, you must. If you really serious. In our vaisnava-parampara also... vaisnava-parampara is actually Vedic parampara. That adau gurvasrayam... Adau gurvasrayam: "To enter into the spiritual life, first thing is first of all to accept a guru." That is... All big, big stalwarts... Even Vyasadeva. Vyasadeva, the wonderful literature. This reading. We are reading Bhagavad-gita. It is Vyasadeva's literature. He heard from Krsna and wrote it. And not only this. The Mahabharata, the Puranas, the Vedanta-sutra, and the Srimad-Bhagavatam. Wonderful literatures. There is no possibility of producing such literature by any scholar of these days. It is not possible. But he accepted guru, Narada, Narada Muni. When, after compiling all the Vedas, and Puranas, even Vedanta-sutra, Vyasadeva was not satisfied himself, he was seeming very morose, at that time, his spiritual master, Narada, came, and he asked that "Why you are morose? You have done so much nice literary work. So why you are not very happy?" So Vyasadeva replied, "Yes, my lord, I am actually not happy, but I cannot understand why I'm not happy. So you know everything. Kindly describe why I'm not happy." So at that time, Narada replied him that "All the literatures you have so far made, they are with reference to the body and the mind. You have nothing described very nicely about the Supreme Soul. So now you try to describe something about the Supreme Lord, about the Supreme Soul. That will make you happy." Therefore he described the Srimad-Bhagavatam. This is the history of Srimad-Bhagavatam. And his last contribution was mature contribution was Vedanta-sutra. So from the Vedanta-sutra, he began writing Srimad-Bhagavata: janmady asya yatah [SB 1.1.1]. This is the beginning of Vedanta-sutra. Athato brahma jijnasa. He said, in a different language, jivasya tattva-jijnasa.
So a human life should be engaged inquiring about the Absolute Truth, and he should inquire from a person who, who has heard about the Absolute Truth from a realized person. There is a.... Therefore it is called sruti, parampara, disciplic succession. One... Just like Vyasadeva is hearing from Narada. Narada is authorized. He has heard from Brahma. Brahma has heard from Krsna. So this is the parampara system, disciplic succession. So there are four parampara systems. They are known as, at the present moment, Ramanuja-sampradaya, Brahma-sampra..., Brahma-samprada..., yes, Madhva-sampradaya, Brahma-sampradaya, Madhva-sampradaya, the same, and Rudra-sampradaya and Sri-samp..., Sri, Rama, Kumara-sampradaya. These is four sampradayas. So we should hear from the sampradaya-acarya by disciplic succession. As Krsna recommends in this Bhagavad-gita: evam parampara-praptam imam rajarsayo viduh [Bg. 4.2].
Evam parampara-praptam imam rajarsayo viduh [Bg. 4.2]. So that is the system. We should receive knowledge by the bona fide, parampara system. Otherwise it may be bogus. Because without parampara system, we cannot understand actual fact. And we have to become in the disciplic succession. We must accept a guru. Tasmad gurum prapadyeta jijnasuh sreya uttamam [SB 11.3.21]. If you are actually eager, anxious to understand the spiritual science, then you must approach a guru. Tasmad gurum prapadyeta jijnasuh sreya uttamam. Uttama means transcendental subject matter. You cannot learn it. Just like if you purchase one pharmacology book from the bookseller's shop, and if you read, at home, do you mean that you become a medical practitioner, pharmacist? No. You must go to the university, you must go to the college. You must hear the experienced professor and learn it and practically experiment it. Then you can learn. Not that by purchasing a book you become a medical practitioner or lawyer. That is not possible. Therefore the direction is that tad-vijnanartham sa gurum eva abhigacchet: [MU 1.2.12] "Must." Here also we see, Krsna in the beginning was talking with Arjuna just like friends. But when Arjuna understood it that "We are talking like friends. So we cannot come into conclusion." The friend, they talk, they argue, they put logic. In that way, we cannot understand. Na tams tarkena yojayet. Then? Tad-vijnanartham sa gurum eva abhigacchet. So therefore Arjuna surrendered himself: sisyas te 'ham sadhi mam prapannam [Bg. 2.7]. Karpanya-dosopahata-svabhavah. "I, I can understand that I am a ksatriya. It is my duty to fight. But in front of my grandfather and relatives, I am declining to fight. Therefore I am affected with karpanya-dosa. I am deviating from my duty. So why I am deviating from this duty? Therefore I am surrendering myself unto You."
So in a position of perplexity, one must approach a bona fide spiritual master. That is the process, Vedic process. Otherwise, it is not possible. And our Sanatana Gosvami, our predecessor, Caitanya Mahaprabhu's direct disciple, he gives his direction that avaisnava-mukhodgirna-puta-hari-kathamrtam, sravanam na kartavyam. He says. He says, "Do not hear from a person who is not a Vaisnava." He must, one must become a Vaisnava. Otherwise his so-called ideas and interpretation has no value. Has no value. Just like in your country, South India, Dr. Radhakrishnan, he has done so many works. But to tell you frankly, it is useless labor. Because he has said in one of his writings that Bhagavad-gita is mental speculation. He is surpassing all the acaryas who came, who appeared in South India. Ramanujacarya appeared in South India, Madhvacarya appeared in South India. Nimbarka appeared in South India. Visnu Svami appeared in South India. Sankaracarya appeared in South India. South India is so blessed. And he also appeared in South India. He's decrying all the acaryas. Just see the position. He says, "Bhagavad-gita is a mental speculation." And he has interpreted in a different way. Krsna says that man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. And if you have seen Dr. Radhakrishnan's translation of Bhagavad-gita, he says, "It is not to Krsna." Krsna says directly that man-mana bhava mad-bhaktah. He says, "Not to Krsna." You'll see. So this defect will be there, unless one is sadacara-sampanna-vaisnava, self-realized. Therefore Sanatana Gosvami says, avaisnava-mukhodgirna-puta-hari-kathamrtam. Our first guru is Krsna. To understand Bhagavad-gita... Arjuna is understanding that Bhagavad-gita from Krsna directly. So after understanding Bhagavad-gita, Arjuna accepts Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Param brahma param dhama pavitram paramam bhavan, purusam sasvatam adyam [Bg. 10.12]. These are the words. And Arjuna also accepted "It is very, very difficult to understand Your personality."
Now people may say that Arjuna was Krsna's friend. To satisfy his friend, he has accepted Him as param brahma. But that is not the fact. Arjuna gives evidences that "Not only I, but the great authorities like Vyasa, Narada, Asita, Devala, they have also accepted You as the Supreme Personality of Godhead." In the recent ages... This is five thousand years ago. Even one thousand, five hundred... Sankaracarya, who is impersonalist, he has also accepted Krsna as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Sa bhagavan svayam krsna. He has written in his commentary on the Bhagavad-gita: narayanah avyakta, avyaktat, para avyaktat. Narayanah para avyaktat. "Narayana is not a creation of this material world. He's transcendental." He has accepted. And what to speak of the Vaisnava acaryas, Ramanujacarya, Madhvacarya, all. They have written so many nice commentaries on the Bhagavad-gita, Brahma-sutra, establishing that the Supreme Absolute Truth is person, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Krsna is speaking as person. And He is warning the rascals: avajananti mam mudha manusim tanum asritam [Bg. 9.11]. "Because I am speaking as a human being, the rascals, they deride." Param bhavam ajanantah. They do not know what is My influence, what is My power."
So this Personality of Godhead... It is a fact. Brahmeti paramatmeti bhagavan iti sabdyate [SB 1.2.11]. The last word is Bhagavan. From Bhagavan, the expansion is Paramatma, localized aspect. Isvarah sarva-bhutanam hrd-dese arjuna tisthati [Bg. 18.61]. That is expansion. Ekamsena sthito jagat [Bg. 10.42]. That is one of the plenary portions. Vistabhya aham. He enters within this universe, and therefore the universe becomes manifest. Just like I am soul, dehino 'smin yatha dehe [Bg. 2.13], I enter into this body. You enter into your body. Therefore the body expands. Similarly, the Supreme Personality of Godhead enters as Garbhodakasayi Visnu within each and every universe. Then it becomes manifest. So there is no question of impersonal. The original source is person. Krsna says,
aham sarvasya prabhavo
mattah sarvam pravartate
iti matva bhajante mam
Budha, not the abudha. Abudha means less intelligent. Those who are intelligent, budha bhava-samanvitah, with a bhava, with an ecstatic position, can understand that Krsna is the original person. Aham sarvasya prabhavah [Bg. 10.8]. Sarvasya means including Brahma, Visnu, Mahesvara, all the devatas. Aham adir hi devanam [Bg. 10.2]. He is the original source of all the devas. The original devas within this... Brahma is the first deva in the first creation. (aside:) What is that? So aham adir hi devanam. The Brahma, Visnu, Mahesvara. So He's the origin of Brahma, Visnu, Mahesvara. From Krsna, for material creation, there are three Purusas. First of all, three purusas. Not directly from Krsna. From Krsna, Baladeva. From Baladeva, catur-vyuha: Sankarsana, Vasudeva, Sankarsana, Pradyumna, Aniruddha. Then from Sankarsana, Sankarsana, Narayana. Then second catur-vyuha. From the second catur-vyuha, Sankarsana, the purusa-avataras. Three purusa-avataras, three Visnus: Karanodakasayi, Garbhodakasayi, and Ksirodakasayi Visnu. So the, in the Vedic literature all these informations are there. And as Krsna says, personally, also... Arjuna accepted that "I accept, on the authority of Vyasadeva, Narada, Devala, Asita, You are the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and You also speaking directly. Then where is my doubt?"
So we should follow... This is called parampara system. As Arjuna understood Bhagavad-gita, if we understand in that way, then we are perfect. I may be imperfect, but because I understand Bhagavad-gita as it was understood by Arjuna, I am perfect. Because the knowledge I am distributing, that is not imperfect. Just like a post peon. A post peon is delivering you one thousand dollars. So he may be poor man, but the one thousand dollars, he is delivering, that is a fact. That is not bogus thing. Because he has not manufactured something. He has received that money order from the post office. He's asked to deliver it to such and such person. His honesty is to deliver the money order as it is to the bona fide person. That is his perfection. He doesn't require... Because he's delivering one thousand dollars, he doesn't require to become a very rich man. He may be a poor man. Similarly, a guru, a guru is perfect when he delivers the words of the superior authority as it is. Then he's perfect. He may be imperfect in your estimation. But that is his perfection, that he is not misleading people by becoming a so-called rascal scholar and interpreting in a different way and misleading the whole population. That is perfection. People say so much about me, that I have done some wonderful thing. But I say that I am not a magician. I'm not a magician. My only credit is that I am presenting Krsna as He is. That's all. I am not diluting Krsna. That is not my business. And therefore, because it is pure, pure ghee, therefore everyone accepts. And if you place dalda, mixing with ghee some rascal thing, then nobody will accept. Therefore, so many swamis went before me in the Western countries, and they presented adulterated, and there was not a single person became a krsna-bhakta. Now, by thousands they are becoming. Why? Because it is presented pure thing. Pure thing will be accepted everywhere. I give this example. In a, in Delhi, there is... I have seen. One, there is confectioner's shop. He rigidly prepares in pure ghee all the sweetmeats. So you'll find always hundreds of customers there. And there are by the side of that... Dalda manufacture. It is not... People are still prepared to pay sufficiently if you give pure thing. So our this Krsna consciousness movement is presenting Bhagavad-gita as it is. We have not manufactured anything. While I started this movement in America, some friend suggested that "You are writing 'International Society for Krishna Consciousness.' Why not make it 'God consciousness.' It will be accepted by everyone." God is Krsna. There must, there must be clearly stated: "Krishna consciousness." I don't mind if nobody accepts it, but there must be 'Krsna.'
So actually it is very happy that Western countries, they are accepting Krsna. Why not? Krsna is for everyone. Krsna is Go... Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. He says, aham bija-pradah pita, sarva-yonisu kaunteya: [Bg. 14.4] "In all forms of life, the living entities, they are My part and parcel. They are my sons. I am the father, original." Bija-pradah pita. So why Krsna will not be accepted? And actually that is happening. They are coming from different groups, but because every one of us is Krsna's son, Krsna's part and parcel, therefore simply it requires a little attentive hearing about Krsna. Sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya. Sevonmukhe hi jihvadau svayam eva sphuraty adhah [Brs. 1.2.234]. In the Caitanya-caritamrta it is said, sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya. Krsna is there, in everyone's heart. Isvarah sarva-bhutanam [Bg. 18.61]. But we do not know. But Krsna and Krsna consciousness can be awakened simply by hearing from the realized person. Satam prasangan mama virya-samvido bhavanti hrt-karna-rasayanah kathah [SB 3.25.25]. Satam prasangat. From the lips of devotees, when it is heard, then it becomes hrt-karna-rasayana. It becomes very pleasing to the ear and to the heart. Taj-josanat, if one cultivates in that way, asu apavarga-vartmani sraddha bhaktir ratir anukramisyati. These are the formulas.
So the process should be to receive the knowledge by disciplic succession, not sporadically hearing sometimes this scholar, hearing sometimes this scholar. "I interpret in my scholarship." No. This thing will not. Our process is, as directed by Sanatana Gosvami, avaisnava-mukhodgirna-puta-hari-kathamrtam. Hari-katha is amrta. Amrta. But still, it should not be received when it is uttered by some avaisnava. There is another direction: avaisnavo gurur na sa syat. Sat-karma-nipuno vipro mantra-tantra-visaradah. A person, a brahmana, sat-karma-nipunah. Brahmana's business is become to become scholar and to make others scholar. Pathana pathana yajana yajana. He must be a worshiper and he must teach others how to worship. Pathana pathana yajana yajana dana pratigraha. Brahmana should receive charity and he makes immediately distribute the charity. So these, these are the occupational duty of brahmana. Pathana pathana. Sat-karma, sat-karma-nipunah. A brahmana, he is very expert in his business, sat-karma. Sat-karma-nipuno mantra-tantra-visaradah. And he has read the Vedic literatures and tantras very nicely. Visarada. Still, if he's not a Vaisnava, then avaisnava gurur na sa syat. By that only qualification, that he's not a Vaisnava, he cannot become guru, whereas, on the other hand, sad-vaisnavah sva-pacah guru. If a person, sva-pacah... Sva-pacah means coming of the family of dog-eaters, candala, if he has become a Vaisnava, sadacara-sampanna-vaisnava, sa guruh syat. You can accept him as guru. There are so many instances. Sriman Ramanujacarya's guru was not from a brahmana family, but still, he accepted guru.
So in the Vaisnava literature... Just like Haridasa Thakura. Haridasa Thakura, we give "Jaya, Thakura Haridasa Thakura ki jaya." We say. This Haridasa Thakura was born in a Mohammedan family. And Caitanya Mahaprabhu made him namacarya, Srila Haridasa Thakura. He was chanting Hare Krsna mantra daily three hundred thousands of times. So Caitanya Mahaprabhu selected him, namacarya. Caitanya Mahaprabhu Himself came to broadcast the glory of Hare Krsna maha-mantra. So instead of becoming Himself the acarya, He designated Haridasa Thakura as acarya. And similarly, Sri Sanatana Gosvami, Srila Rupa Gosvami, they also became Mohammedans. They were born in Hindu, sarasvata-brahmana family, but due to their association as minister of the then Muslim government, they were rejected from the brahmana society. Formerly, the brahmana society was very strict. Anyone becoming serving, serving, servant, he is immediately excluded: "Oh, you cannot become a brahmana. You are serving." In the Srimad-Bhagavatam also, by the, spoken by Narada, he says a brahmana, if he's in difficulty, he should not accept the business of a dog, service. He should not accept service. He may go to the profession of a ksatriya, or even up to vaisya. Not of a sudra. These are the injunctions. So they were strictly being followed. These Sanatana Gosvami, they were very learned scholars, in Sanskrit, in Arabic language, Persian language, but because they accepted the ministership of Nawab Hussain Shah, immediately they were rejected. And they changed their name. Almost they became Muslim. Sakara Mallika, Dabhir Kasa. Their name was that. These are Mohammedan names. So they were living like that. But when Caitanya Mahaprabhu blessed them, they became the first-class gosvamis: Rupa Gosvami, Sanatana Gosvami. This is Caitanya Mahaprabhu's mercy. And He therefore said, prthivite ache yata nagaradi-grama. He asked to spread this Krsna consciousness movement all over the world, in every village, in every town. Does he mean that let them become sudras? Let them remain sudras, and they become Krsna conscious? No. He did not mean like that. That means everywhere there should be Vaisnava. And a Vaisnava means above brahmana. That is the Krsna consciousness movement.
(answering question:) Because you are here. It is for you. For us. You means you, me. Because we wanted to enjoy, we became, we wanted to lord it over the material nature, therefore God has given you the facility that "You enjoy." But just to make you convinced that we cannot enjoy, we become enjoyed... This conviction, when you come to this conviction, that we cannot enjoy, we become enjoyed, at that time, we seek after God. That is natural. Athato brahma jijnasa. So God has created this material world because we wanted it. That is the philosophy... [break] ...your opinion, why God has created? Eh?
Indian: No, I am not... (too faint)
Prabhupada: But the... No, the trouble must be there because God has created this world for your enjoyment and for my enjoyment, there therefore must be struggle. Because I don't agree with you, you don't agree with me. So why there shall not be trouble? Because everyone, if everyone... Just like in office, if everyone wants to become the proprietor, will not there be confusion and chaos? Do you think the office will go on nicely? Similarly, here, God has given you chance to become master because you wanted, but everyone wants to be master. There is chaos. How there can be harmony when everyone wants to become God? Do you think it is all right? There must be chaos. Here is the position. Everyone in the material world, first of all, they want to become big man, big businessman, big, big this, big that, minister, president, and when everything is failure, then he wants to become God. That is the last snare of maya. So this is going on. How you can expect peace and prosperity here? That is not possible. Duhkhalayam asasvatam [Bg. 8.15]. It is stated by Krsna Himself that this is a place only for misery, but under the influence of maya, we are accepting all miserable conditions of life as happiness. This is called maya.
Indian: Who is a real brahmana?
Prabhupada: Who is qualified. Satya sama dama titiksa arjava astikyam jnanam vijnanam [Bg. 18.42]. When one has acquired all these qualities, then he becomes brahmana.
Prabhupada: [break]...come to Krsna consciousness. Sa gunan samatityaitan brahma-bhuyaya kalpate. Mam ca yo 'vyabhicarena bhakti-yogena sevate [Bg. 14.26]. Unless we come to that platform of bhakti-yoga and become re-related, not related, again revive our Krsna consciousness, we, there cannot be equality. That is not possible. There must be distinction, some higher class, some middle class, some lower class. Even in European countries, there are, in America there are, so are in India. So it is not very astonishing. Because the whole world is being conducted, the whole material nature is being conducted by the three gunas, and anyone associating with a particular type of guna, he must suffer or enjoy according to that gunas. Jaghanya-guna-vrtti-stha adho gacchanti tamasah. Tamasa, they, those who are in the tamasika-guna, they go adhah. Madhye tisthanti rajasah. And via media, those who are in touch with the rajo-guna. And urdhvam gacchanti sattva-sthah: [Bg. 14.18] those who are in the goodness, they go up, in the upper platform of the society or in the universe. But Krsna says, abrahma-bhuvanal lokah punar avartino 'rjuna [Bg. 8.16]. Either you go even to the Brahmaloka, one day you have come to the hellish loka. This is the way. So some, cakravat parivartante sukhani ca duhkhani ca. Just like the wheel turns round, sometimes up, sometimes down, so this is the position of this material world. There is no question of lamenting. You cannot say, "These people are suffering and that people are enjoying." The man who is enjoying, he'll also suffer next moment. This is going on, suffering and enjoying. Unless we come to Krsna consciousness, there is no way of coming out of this duality of this world. This is duality. Everything you'll find in dual. Unless there is happiness, you cannot understand what is distress. And unless there is distress, you cannot understand happiness. You cannot understand light unless there is darkness. So this is the world of darkness and light, so-called light. You have to transcend. Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. So we have to make arrangement. That facility is there to every human being, how he can get out of this world of duality and come to the transcendental platform which is called avyabhicarini-bhakti-yoga.
That is required. [break]
Indian: ...to know how to awaken kundalini, and how to have permanent state of awakened kundalini.
Indian: ... Carvaka not to believe God at all.
Prabhupada: Eh? What is that?
Indian: Carvaka, Carvaka...
Indian: And what was... And second thing, the god among the dasavataras, Buddha accepted, supposed to be one avatara. Buddha never told any idol worship, or any Rama and Krsna worshiping. And particularly one avatara, another avatara and this avadhuta. Or holy place. And will never accept in such a way, how to believe and what to believe and what is the temples.
Prabhupada: So you reject everything. (laugher) That's all right. That is the way. That is very nice process. You reject everything. Because you are doubt in everything, so you reject everything. That's all right.
Indian: Even Lord Buddha... [break] ...these are the contradictory.
Prabhupada: Hm. Therefore our philosophy is acintya-bhedabheda-tattva. Acintya, inconceivable. Just like you are trying to conceive that whole world is God, and still, God is not there. That is spoken by God Himself, Krsna: mat-sthani sarva-bhutani naham tesu avasthitah [Bg. 9.4]. Maya tatam idam, avyakta-murtina. So this impersonal feature, brahmeti paramatmeti bhagavan iti [SB 1.2.11], the impersonal feature is Brahman. Sarvam khalv idam brahma. That means sarvedam akhilam jagat, parasya brahmanah saktih sarvedam akhilam jagat. Just like the sunshine. You are in the sunshine. That is a practical faith. The sunshine is not different from the sun. The sun is ninety-three millions of miles away, but still, because you are in the sunshine, you are in sun. Can you deny it? That is the thing. You are in the sunshine. The sunshine is not different from the sun. But still, it is not the sun. This is the philosophy, inconceivably, simultaneously one and different. The sunshine is not different from the sun, but still, it is different. Similarly, the whole manifested, the cosmic manifestation is God, but still He is..., it is not God. This is, therefore it is called inconceivable, acintya. With our teeny brain, we cannot accommodate how it is one and different. Therefore it is called acintya. Acintya-bhedabheda: different and separate, simultaneously. Everything. Idam hi visvo bhagavan ivetarah. The whole world is Bhagavan, but it appears different from Bhagavan. So how? To a maha-bhagavata, who understands actually what is Bhagavan, he does not see any difference. Because he, everywhere he sees his worshipable Deity, Krsna. He does not see anything. I am seeing a tree, but a devotee is seeing tree: "Oh, it is the energy of Krsna." Immediately he remembers Krsna and worships Him. So this is higher stage of realization of God, how the inconceivable things, simultaneously one and different, can be perceived. Therefore, there are three stages of devotional life, kanisthadhikari, madhyamadhikari, and uttamadhikari. So to become uttamadhikari, it is not so easy, but we are generally in the kanisthadhikari. But we shall try to come to the madhyamadhikari. Then our life will be successful.
Indian: That is correct, Swami. As you have told, he said we have no suffering. He suffered for others. We should not condemn them. We should pray to the Lord that we may take...
Prabhupada: No. No devotee condemns anything. But when he does not... Just like when..., father always gives, always merciful to his son, but if the son is very obstinate, he gives him a slap. (end)
Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/classes/bg/2/26/hyderabad/november/30/1972
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