Bhagavad-gītā 6.11–14 – May 13, 1972, Honolulu

Prabhupada: …and the cheaters come and cheat them, [indistinct]. Here it is clearly stated,

Supreme. The heart and the soul. Yoga is meant for that. Samam kaya-siro-grivam [Bg 6.13]. That is come on, a straight line. Samam kaya-siro-grivam, neck. Dharayann acalam sthiraḥ: stand still. Sampreksya nasikagram svam disas canavalokayan [Bg 6.13]: no, not even seeing any other thing. Prasantatma vigata-bhir: and a happy attitude; without any fear. Brahmacari-vrate sthitaḥ: con…, fully celibacy, brahmacari. Vrata: not by name brahmacari-by vow. No sex life. Brahmacari-vrate sthitaḥ. Manaḥ samyamya mac-citto yukta asita mat-paraḥ [Bg 6.14]:

"In this way one should be engaged in meditation, thinking always of Me," mat-paraḥ. This is yoga. What is he has recommended? He can do whatever he likes. And hatha-yoga also, astahga-yoga, according to Kapila Muni, that is also yama. Why? Immediately beginning, yam, yam, asana, dhyana, dharana, pranayama, pratyahara, eh? Then samadhi. [indistinct]. This means this man is cheating everyone. This man is cheating; he does not know what is yoga. And because these Western rascals, they want to be cheated, they come and take money, and they think they are yogi. They are not yogi. Give them a challenge: quote these verses from Bhagavad-gita, Bhagavat. One cannot manufacture a science out of his own brain.

Syamasundara: Is…Didn't you, er…I heard some quote from Srimad-Bhagavatam a while ago about…

Prabhupada: Yes. Here, Srimad-Bhagavatam also. Give me that [indistinct].

Syamasundara: "In this age, men will come..."

Prabhupada: Eh?

Gaurasundara: Something about in Kali-yuga, men will…, men will follow bogus teachers or something?

Prabhupada: That is Kali-yuga. So [indistinct: loud movement] is all right.

Govinda dasi: [laughs]

Prabhupada: "Let us follow all bogus, and then..." Just like the people say, they are testing[?] to do these things. Why do it? Why you are forbidden? They are the symptoms of Kali-yuga. But one has to avoid them.

Syamasundara: Huh. Yes.

Prabhupada: That we are teaching. In the Sixth Canto, first chapter…

Syamasundara: Which verse?

Prabhupada: Verse number 12. Verse number 11, 12, 13. Fourteen also. There are so many. How many we have got.

Syamasundara: Is there one that mentions the four pillars of sinful activities?

Prabhupada: Yes. These four pillars of sinful activities: yatra papas catur-vidhaḥ [SB 1.17.38].

Syamasundara: Which verse is that? There's one where the king…, er…

Prabhupada: Hmm. That is First Canto.

Syamasundara: Yes. [indistinct] [pause]

Govinda dasi: [chants japa]

Prabhupada: Bhagavata, First Canto, Seventeenth Chapter.

Syamasundara: First Canto, Seventeenth Chapter…

Prabhupada: Seventeenth Chapter, thirty-eighth verse.

Syamasundara: Thirtieth?

Prabhupada: Thirty-eight.

Syamasundara: Thirty-eight.

Prabhupada:

When he was asked to go out, he said,

"You are asking me to go out, so let me know what shall I do, because everything belongs to you. You asked me to go out of your kingdom, but everywhere is still your kingdom. So let me know, where shall I go?"

"If you just designate [indistinct]."

"I can peacefully live there, abiding by your order."

When he was asked by Pariksit to get him places, whether dyūtam panam striyaḥ sūna yatradharmas catur-vidhaḥ [SB 1.17.38]. Dyūta: "Where there is gambling, where there is drinking, where there is illicit sex, and where there is animal slaughter-go there." Yatradharmas catur-vidhaḥ. These four kinds of sinful activities are going on. And this is the whole world. Gambling and drinking, illicit sex and slaughterhouse. The whole Western world especially… No, everyone. In India also the same thing-but still less.

Syamasundara: Much less.

Prabhupada: Still less. Still they are ashamed. But here there is no shame-shameless.

Syamasundara: Yes.

Prabhupada:

[pause]

Then he asked that "It is very difficult for me to go to four places. Better give me one place where four things are there." [laughs] So,

Catur-vidhaksa api etad ati danum deheti punar jata-rūpam sauvarna[?] Then he gave him gold: "You take this gold, and one who possesses gold-all these four things are there."

Syamasundara: [laughs] That's the whole key, because Maharishi is after money.

Prabhupada: That's all.

Syamasundara: He can't get money unless he allows those things to go on. That can be the punch line in the whole letter.

Prabhupada: Yes, yes.

So these five kind of sinful places are given by Pariksit Maharaja to Kali.

Syamasundara: Hmm.

Prabhupada: You can quote these slokas.

Syamasundara: Yes, [indistinct] make a copy. [indistinct conversation with Govinda dasi about finding book]

Govinda dasi: You mean Prabhupada's?

Syamasundara: Yes.

Govinda dasi: I don't know if I have it here, or if I have it in the...

Prabhupada: Well, you can get-all these slokas.

Syamasundara: Yes.

Pradyumna: They want to get an English translation.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Syamasundara: I want to put it in English also, so people can read it.

Pradyumna: From the first three volumes translation...

Prabhupada: I think I have translated it already.

Syamasundara: Yes.

Pradyumna: They want to get the volumes, the three volumes. They don't have it here. Not here. They'll get it from the temple.

Prabhupada: It is in the first volume.

Syamasundara: Yes. They had it at the temple, so...

Prabhupada: Seventeenth Chapter.

Syamasundara: Yes.

Prabhupada: Seventeenth Chapter means this may be in the third volume.

Pradyumna: Third volume.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Syamasundara: Third volume.

Prabhupada: These are already discussed.

Pradyumna: Srila Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: Eh?

Pradyumna: In one of those verses in Srimad-Bhagavatam...

Prabhupada: So all these GBC members, they must be well expert in explaining; otherwise what is the use of this writing, taking so much labor, books? They should go, preach, understand. And when there is difficulty, I am present. They are already explained. I am taking so much pain in writing books. If you don't read-if you simply make it for sale-then what is the use? Just these all rascals should be challenged vigorously. They are misleading the whole population, and blaspheming the Indian spiritual culture. People are depending so much on this culture for their upliftment, and they are blackmailing for money's sake. People have to be… They want to be cheated, that's all right. But our business is to save them.

Syamasundara: I thought you were saying that we shouldn't criticize these people in public.

Prabhupada: No, no. To criticize means… Of course, when you are preaching, we have to show the real truth. And that is not criticizing. It is just like if you call a thief a thief. If you point out, "This man is thief," this is not criticizing. If I warn that "Don't mix with Gaurasundara; he is a thief," and suppose he is a thief, is it criticizing? We are saying that "This is the path of yoga system [indistinct]."

Syamasundara: Hmm. Yeah. [indistinct] We have to do this.

Prabhupada: "And this is not." So if we distinguish, "This man is thief and this man is not," then that is not criticism; that is speaking the truth.

Syamasundara: Yeah. Our mood should be objective then.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Syamasundara: It shouldn't be personal attack.

Prabhupada: Yes. Now he has mentioned that, so you should point out…

Syamasundara: Yes.

Prabhupada: …generously, what is actual yoga.

Syamasundara: Very objectively: "Here is the right path…"

Prabhupada: Yes.

Syamasundara: "…as enunciated by the authorities. This is his statement, so that you can see the difference."

Prabhupada: Anyway, criticize or not criticize, we have to give everything carefully. But our preaching must be to save the people from pitfalls.

Syamasundara: Hmm.

Prabhupada: Acyutananda has done a great service.

Syamasundara: Yes.

Prabhupada: A great service, in Navadvipa. And therefore he has been elected as secretary.

Syamasundara: Yes.

Prabhupada: They are appreciating.

Syamasundara: Yes.

Prabhupada: So similarly, we shall preach. It is true that our authorities... Always reading should be continually going on in our centers. These books, regularly should be discussed and preached: the ideal life of Krsna, ideal grhastha, householder, what He is doing. Our grhastha is not condemned, but provided he is right grhastha. But Krsna had sixteen thousand wives. He is lying down there with Krsna…, they are lying down, and who can leave Krsna? If one has got Krsna… They know Krsna is the Supreme Personality of Godhead. So they are embracing Krsna. How much happy they are? Eh?

Syamasundara: Yes. [laughs]

Prabhupada: But still Krsna gets out.

Syamasundara: [laughs] As soon as the first cock is crowing.

Prabhupada: How much devoted, beautiful. They are select…, spiritual; they are not material. Their bodies are not material bodies. Krsna does not embrace a material woman.

Syamasundara: Hmm.

Prabhupada: All these queens are spiritual. All the gopis, they are spiritual. Ananda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhavitabhis [Bs 5.37]: and they are all made of ananda-cinmaya-rasa.

So He is showing the life of a grhastha: early rising, giving in charity to the brahmanas, and living daily duty. Still, He has got children, getting children married somehow or another[?]. So grhastha life is not bad-never bad. Krsna is grhastha. Our worshipable Lord is grhastha. He's not sannyasa. Is it sannyasa? Why He should be? He is the supreme enjoyer, why He should be sannyasa…, sannyasi? Enjoyer…Sannyasi is not enjoyer. But His description is enjoyer. Now how enjoyer can be sannyasi? But He is still sannyasi-renounced, everything. That is the point.

Syamasundara: Hmm.

Prabhupada: He has got so many enjoyable wives, but still, just at time, renouncing everything. Enjoyer, at the same time renouncer. Renouncement is also opulence.

Syamasundara: Hmm.

Prabhupada: Aisvaryasya samagrasya viryasya yasasaḥ..., jnana-vairagya [Visnu Purana 6.5.74]. He is enjoying, but He has no attachment for all these things-either for wife or children or this building or anything. At any moment He can give up. The gopis, in a moment He gave up, went to Mathura. They began to cry and they wanted to stop the chariot, and so many things. He said, "Yes. Don't be agitated. I am coming, I am coming." Like that. And practically He never came back. He left at the age of 15, 16 years old, then He became engaged in fighting, being educated and marrying and becoming king and so on, so on. Once He came, Krsna and Balarama, once, when They had grandchildren. And once He came, Krsna and Balarama met the gopis in Kuruksetra, when they came-maybe I have mentioned already. When the cowherd boys went to see Him at Kuruksetra battle, when they heard how "Krsna, our friend, is fighting," they could see, "Oh?" [laughs] They were village cowherds men. They saw so many kings, so "We cannot enter."

Syamasundara: Kuruksetra…

Prabhupada: They could not forget Krsna.

Syamasundara: Kuruksetra is near Delhi somewhere?

Prabhupada: I... You were with me, no? When we were coming back from Amritsar.

Syamasundara: Yes. I saw…

Prabhupada: I showed you the Kuruksetra station.

Syamasundara: Ah! Before Delhi somewhere.

Prabhupada: Still the station is there. People go for pilgrimage. Kuru-ksetre dharma-ksetre is proof. And they are commentating in that... Actually, the name, still the name is continuing.

Syamasundara: Yeah.

Prabhupada: The station, actually station, people are going for pilgrimage.

Syamasundara: Ah.

Prabhupada: And they are commentating [indistinct]. Dharma-ksetre kuru-ksetre [Bg 1.1].

Syamasundara: In Vrndavana all the names are the same still-Gokula…

Prabhupada: Yamuna, Govardhana…

Syamasundara: …and Varsana.

Prabhupada: Varsana name is recent.

Syamasundara: Ah, Nanda-grama…

Prabhupada: Nanda-grama is old.

Syamasundara: Old.

Prabhupada: Nanda-grama is not [indistinct]. Vrndavana, in the Vrndavana area, now they are divided. Radharani was also born in Gokula.

Syamasundara: Ah. They say She was born…

Prabhupada: No. Maternal, maternal uncle…

Syamasundara: Her parents lived in Varsana?

Prabhupada: Yes. So the spirit of Acyutananda life is being challenged by these so-called avataras. He has dragged also Ramakrishna. Explain. Also our Govinda dasi has done that.

Gaurasundara: Yes, she has done it also. Siddha-svarūpa.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Gaurasundara: Siddha-svarūpa. Dragged him into our camp.

Govinda dasi: [laughs] He was dragged. He was holding one very big meeting, and I went with two girls, two brahmacarinis, and read your letter in front of his whole seventy, one hundred people-the letter where you denounced him. And he was hanging his head. And about five days later he joined you, after he got your letter. You know that letter you wrote? Do you remember it?

Prabhupada: I do not remember. What is the letter?

Govinda dasi: You wrote a letter...

Prabhupada: I told him, "Let us sing. Let us chant Hare Krsna."

Gaurasundara: [indistinct]

Govinda dasi: You remember? It was a letter saying that "My disciples don't wear long hair, and they follow these regulative principles." You remember?

Prabhupada: Ah, yes.

Syamasundara: You remember? I think you wrote it in Surat.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Govinda dasi: And so… He… It was nice. We distributed copies to all of the crowd. And…, and…, and…

Gaurasundara: What did he say? [indistinct]

Govinda dasi: No, he didn't say very much. He said, "Let me explain. Let me explain," or something like that. I think he was already thinking of surrendering to you. But the letter did it. Your letter did it. It was the final chop, you know, the final...

Gaurasundara: Pusta Krsna said he had it planned for many months, but there was too much wrong [indistinct].

Prabhupada: No, they can [indistinct] back. He can join.

Gaurasundara: [aside:] You're leaving at seven?

Prabhupada: So preaching means read our books; follow this. Reference immediately you should give, reference, where it is. Why you are asking me, when [indistinct]? What I am doing alone, now you have to do twelve times; then it will spread. Then each one takes another twelve. Then there will be no space for these rascals to flourish. We have got our books now. Print and distribute and preach, and bring the sunlight and the cockroaches will go away. [laughs] [laughter] They cannot do any more any infection. In the sunlight there is no insects, no cockroaches. In the darkness there is glowworms. Have you seen glowworms? You have seen? "Oh, there is light? What is that light?"

Govinda dasi: [laughs]

Prabhupada: Glowworms. So their light like that. The small [indistinct] glowworms, bring sunlight, then they will automatically go away. Krsna-sūrya-sama; maya haya andhakara [Cc Madhya 22.31]. What is the English translation?

Gaurasundara: "Krsna is sunlight, and maya is darkness."

Prabhupada: That's all. Bring sunlight, and the darkness will automatically go.

[devotees pay obeisances] [break] [end]

[The three paragraphs below are not part of the above program.]

Prabhupada: So [indistinct] we are fighting, so there is possibility that in each party there will be some victim. So that is not consideration. After all, the party which gains victory, he is the stronger. But we are fighting [indistinct] godlessness, so sometimes from our party there may be some victim. But this movement, it will go on.

Guest: Well of course in all human endeavors, regardless of what it may be, there are human casualties that must be overcome.

Prabhupada: Yes. There are human casualties. That we are guarding against. That four principles, one should not, I mean, take illicit sex, we say… [break]

[kirtana] [End]