Audio
Indian man: [Transl. Did you read yesterday's ordinance.]
Dr. Patel: [Transl. Ah? Which one?]
Indian man: [Transl. The one about ordinance?]
Dr. Patel: [Transl. Things will go on with ordinance. You stop reading newspaper any more, no?]
Indian man: [Transl. Now any government officer can murder any person.]
Indian man (2): [Transl. Can murder?]
Indian man: [Transl. Yes.]
Indian man (2): [Transl. We are murdered already?]
Prabhupada: Ahh?
Dr. Patel: [Transl. We are murdered already.]
Indian man: [Transl. It came in the paper yesterday that any government servant can murder anybody. Even if he has personal jealousy, he can kill him. And nobody can take any action against the killer.]
Prabhupada: Really?
Indian man: [Transl. Yes.]
Dr. Patel: The whole country is already murdered. What are you talking of murder now?
Indian man: I don't want to talk of these things. [Transl. I just informed you.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. How is that possible?]
Dr. Patel: They have gone mad now, sir. Actually they have ransacked the morality of this land, and they are going to ransack the even social conditions.
Indian man: [Transl. I was shocked when I read it.]
Dr. Patel: [Transl. I keep a gun and I have got people now.] I have got one rifle, one gun, one revolver and one pistol. I am keeping always with me now. [Transl. What can be done?] I can't give you. You must take out a license for it. [Transl. If someone attacks you, you kill him first and then both of you die. Both will go to God for justice.] These people, sir, have really ruined this, this batch of rulers.
Prabhupada: That is everywhere.
Dr. Patel: Sadar Patel… [aside:] [Transl. Brother, he was a strong man.] He was a man of practice. He could have...I mean…
Prabhupada: But who will live? Everyone will die.
Dr. Patel: Everyone will die, that's right. These people will also die. They behave as if they are living permanently. Then they are doing a bad thing, they think that they are...
Prabhupada: So we have to tolerate. There is no other way.
Dr. Patel: That we are doing.
Prabhupada: Tams titiksasva bharata [Bg 2.14]. They will come and go. You have to do your business, Krsna consciousness. These people will come and go. Place everything at the mercy of Krsna. Even...
Dr. Patel: [Transl. From where did you read it?]
Indian man: [Transl. In Hindi. In Times also.]
Dr. Patel: [Transl. I didn't read it.]
Indian man: [Transl. You must have not noticed it.]
Dr. Patel: [Transl. I don't read all this stuff.] I don't read. I hardly..., I only go on the headings now. I don't go in the details.
Indian man: [Transl. I too didn't see it first. I went through the headings and left it. Then later I saw, what is this?]
Prabhupada: Hmm? So what about our this land we have given? Where is Saurabha? He wll not come? What about this land we have given for road?
Saurabha: That is FSI [Floor Space Index]. We are using as FSI.
Prabhupada: So FSI we are going to have for these buildings?
Saurabha: We have about 60,000 square feet of area we can build now.
Prabhupada: We are going to utilize it for the towers?
Saurabha: For the other building.
Prabhupada: Other building?
Saurabha: Yes. You were speaking about constructing another building in the back of the land. We can have about one big building of one hundred and eighty rooms easily.
Prabhupada: Then it's all right.
Dr. Patel: One hundred eighty rooms? One hundred eighty?
Saurabha: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Very fine. After the building of this completely as per plan the temple...
Saurabha: Yes. And then we still have area for gurukula also. Another hundred rooms.
Dr. Patel: [to Saurabh:] Those people who are [indistinct] make small houses for them. Then they can be in one building in their houses. No? Then you can have more buildings. [aside:] He constructed haphazardly, the original owner.] [break]
Prabhupada: [aside:] Jaya. Yesterday... Last night, I explained at the Birla house that you have to change only your care of. Now we are care of under material energy, and you have to transfer your under care of spiritual energy. They appreciated.
Dr. Patel: They are under the care of great maya, maha-maya.
Prabhupada: Everyone...
Dr. Patel: They are sitting in the Delhi, of all the Birlas.
Prabhupada: Not Birlas, everyone. [laughing]
Dr. Patel: [also laughing] I don't know that, sir. But I... I am a rebellion against them. In 1958, sir, I told told the Congress, when I was a member of the Congress, that I can't be the member of such an institution which just simply lies, telling white lies.
Prabhupada: No, no. You may say about congressman, and this one, Communist man; everyone is under...
Dr. Patel: Is a rascal.
Prabhupada: Yes. That is our verdict. Mūḍha. We understand from Bhagavad-gita...
Dr. Patel: Why mūḍha, sir. Mudhatamaḥ! [the most foolish]
Prabhupada: Yes, vimūḍha. Therefore Prahlada Maharaja says not only mūḍha but vimūḍha; visesa-mūḍha especially.
Dr. Patel: [Transl. Or vigata mauḍhyatvam asau-vimūḍha: one whose foolishness is gone. That also is vimūḍha.]
Prabhupada: Prahlada Maharaja says the same thing: tato vimūkha-cetasa [SB 7.9.43]. Vimūkha cetasa means one who does not accept Krsna as the Supreme. Tato vimukha-cetasa soce, and simply thinking these rascals. "Who are these?" "Those who are nondevotees; one who does not surrender to Krsna." Tato vimukha-cetasa. "So why you are searching?" "Maya-sukhaya: simply for so-called sense gratification for a few days, bharam udvahato vimūḍhan, making big, big plans. I am thinking of these rascals. What for they are making big, big plans? They will stay here for a few days, and forgetting Krsna consciousness they are busy in making plans." This is Prahlada Maharaja. And Krsna says they are mūḍha, vimūḍha. As soon as you find one not Krsna conscious, he's immediately mūḍha, vimūḍha. Na mam duskrtino mūḍhaḥ prapadyante naradhamaḥ [Bg 7.15].
Dr. Patel: That knowledge is, I mean, perished by maya.
Prabhupada: Yes. Maya will help you. If you want to forget Krsna, maya will help you, how you can more and more forget.
Dr. Patel: Maya would help us even for finding out Krsna also...
Prabhupada: No. Maya...
Dr. Patel: ...because the body is the maya, the mind is the maya, and the very mind will help us, sir, that doesn't it help us to go towards Krsna?
Prabhupada: No. That is not maya's help. When you surrender to Krsna, maya will not bother with your business. That means you get relief from maya. You are no more under the jurisdiction of maya. You..., now you are under the jurisdiction of Krsna. That is wanted. Maya will trouble you so long you do not go in the jurisdiction of Krsna.
Dr. Patel: Yes, yes. Ye mam prapadyante mayam etam…
Prabhupada: And as soon as you go under the jurisdiction of Krsna, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam [Bg 18.66], then there is no jurisdiction of maya. Just like as soon as the sun rises there is no more darkness-automatically. You do not require to dissipate the darkness. As soon as there is sun, everything is light. [aside to passerby:] Hare Krsna. Jaya. Hare Krsna.
Dr. Patel: [aside:] [Transl. Are you going to the market?]
Prabhupada: Mam eva ye prapadyante mayam etam taranti te [Bg 7.14]. This is the process. It is simple method. To become under the jurisdiction of maya, it requires great labor. But to become under the jurisdiction of Krsna, it takes a minute. But these rascals will not do that. Krsna...
Dr. Patel: Because Krsna Himself has made your eyes, all these indriyas outgoing, so...
Prabhupada: Indriyas... He has made your eyes to see Krsna, not a prostitute. That is your fault. Krsna has given you eyes to see Him, but you are utilizing to see a prostitute. So that is not Krsna's fault; that is your fault. Eyes are not bad. Krsna has given you eyes to see Krsna. But we are utilizing for other purpose. That is our fault.
Indian man: [Transl. God has given us tongue to eat prasada and not to eat meat.]
Prabhupada: We are presenting this Krsna's Deity in the temple, but who is coming to utilize his eyes? Nobody is coming. They will go to see cinema, beautiful actress. So they are utilizing the eyes for this purpose.
Dr. Patel: I have seen the last cinema in '58. They are gone with the Wind.
Prabhupada: Not your eyes...
Dr. Patel: It was Gone with the Wind.
Prabhupada: So we are misusing everything. Therefore bhakti means stop this misuse. Sarvopadhi-vinirmuktam [Cc Madhya 19.170], that is bhakti. Whatever you have got, utilize it properly. Don't misuse it. That is all the instruction. Kurusva tad mad-arpanam. [Bg 9.27] Krsna says, "Whatever you are doing using your senses..."
Prabhupada: Yes, that is wanted. The Mayavadi philosophers, they are taking because the senses are creating so much trouble, material existence, finish this-sūnyavadi. But that will not solve the problem. The problem will be solved that you keep your eyes. You don't require to finish it, but cure it. Just like you medical man: If one is blind out of cataract, you don't say that you pluck it, the eyes, and throw it. No. "Please cure it, and you'll be able to see." This is the difference between Mayavadi philosopher and Vaisnava philosopher. They want to pluck it out, make it zero, sūnyavada.
Dr. Patel: That sūnyavada is, I mean, Buddhist...
Prabhupada: No, no. This is the philosophy. Sūnyavadi means they want to make it zero. Your are troubling; you have got so much trouble with your eyes: don't bother, pluck it out. This is their philosophy. And our philosophy is, "No, there is no need of plucking out. Just cure it, and you'll see." That is...
Dr. Patel: [Transl. Antarmukha indriyas: make the senses introspective.] That is what the Kathopanisad teaches us.
Prabhupada: Every Vedic scripture will advise you that. You take this Upanisad or that Upanisad; the ultimate is Gitopanisad. The final, Gitopanisad.
Dr. Patel: Gitopanisad.
Prabhupada: Yes, Gita is Upanisad.
Dr. Patel: Yes, yes. That is always mentioned after each of them.
Prabhupada: Yes, Gitopanisad. So Gitopanisad is the substance and summary of all Upanisads, and Upanisads means Vedas. That is the Vedic knowledge.
Harikesa: But if you negate eye, there's no question of seeing.
Prabhupada: Hmm?
Harikesa: If you negate the eye...
Prabhupada: The same principle, that "You are seeing. Now kill yourself: you don't see." That's all. The same philosophy. You are seeing and feeling disturbance-better kill yourself; you'll not see, then all problems solved. This is their advice. "Kill yourself." So who will agree to that?
Dr. Patel: Yes, philosophically kill yourself, and get yourself transferred to a different life.
Prabhupada: No, no...
Dr. Patel: I mean not physically, I mean as a philosophical point...
Prabhupada: When you kill means you finish yourself; no more seeing.
Dr. Patel: Finish your present ego...
Prabhupada: That is your interpretation. Killing means finish everything. Killing does not mean that you will again see. There is no killing.
Harikesa: But you'll just go in another body...
Prabhupada: That is curing. That is curing. Killing and curing. If you kill yourself, then whole thing is finished. But if you cure yourself, then you see rightly. So we advise cure, not kill. That is our philosophy.
Dr. Patel: You mean cure the ego. Cure the ego.
Prabhupada: No. Cure the disease.
Dr. Patel: ...ego is the greatest disease, sir. Greatest disease. First disease man is overtaken by.
Prabhupada: False ego. You can say false ego.
Dr. Patel: The ego is always false.
Prabhupada: "I exist," this is pure ego. I exist, that's a fact, and when we say that "I exist for this life. I can finish it; there is no next life," that is not philosophy.
Dr. Patel: That should be the ego of God or the ego of you. [Transl. Prema gali ati sahkri tame do na samahi: The path of love is so narrow that two persons cannot enter together.-Kabir Das] Whether God's ego or your ego, there cannot be two egos.
Prabhupada: No. Samai, samai. You are already samai. Sarvam khalv idam brahma [Chandogya Upanisad 3.14.1]. You are already in Brahman. There is no question of samai. The rascal cannot see. They say samai. Why samai? You are already there. You do not know. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gita, brahma-bhūta prasannatma [Bg 18.54]. I am already there, prasannatma. If you have the false impression that "I am out of Brahman," that is..., there is question of samai. But if you know that you are already in Brahman, then where is the question of samai? Prasannatma. This is real explanation. Brahma-bhuta prasannatma. Now we understand that I am aham brahmasmi. That is real knowledge. I am not this matter. I am not American, I am not Indian. Aham brahmasmi.
Dr. Patel: "I am not this body."
Prabhupada: Ah, that is real knowledge. But they are under the impression of this false knowledge. Therefore this samai. Why samai? You are already there. Krsna says, mamaivamso jiva-bhūtaḥ [Bg 15.7]. When the sun is there, the sunshine is also there, already. So you are sunshine, and Krsna is sun, so we are already together. But the cloud is there. We are thinking that "I am not sunshine; I am cloud." That is misconception. But when we understand, the cloud is no more there, then aham brahmasmi, brahma-bhūta prasannatma. That is wanted. Under the fool's guidance we are becoming fool. And if we take the real guidance, then we come into the real knowledge. We have created a fool's paradise. Everyone is a fool, and he is promising paradise.
Prabhupada: This is going on. Otherwise why there are so many rascals? [indistinct] The fools make it a fool's paradise. Take Bhagavad-gita as it is, everything's all right. There is no question...
Indian man: [Transl. Cool breeze is blowing. Very pleasant.]
Dr. Patel: [Transl. Very nice. Cool and good.]
Indian man: [Transl. Sometimes the breeze is very cooling.] Sir, then, samaḥ sarvesu bhūtesu mad-bhaktim labhate param. [Bg 18.54] In your..., equipoise, I mean, the thing... That is the highest...
Prabhupada: Yes, that you can say when you are yourself brahma bhūta [Bg 18.54]. But if you are not brahma bhūta, that is not possible. They are trying to unite everyone in the United Nation, all cats and dogs. They are simply barking. There is no possibility of unity. That is not possible. They'll simply go on barking. And it is an association of dogs barking. That's all.
Dr. Patel: [laughs] They are barking towards each other.
Prabhupada: So if you keep them dogs, there is no question of unity. If you bring them to Brahman consciousness, aham brahmasmi, then there will be unity.
Dr. Patel: That is that samah sarvesu bhūtesu.
Prabhupada: Yes. And then when you are in that stage, then you can become qualified to serve God. Mad-bhakti labhate param. So bhakti is not so easy. Manusyanam saharesu kascid yatati siddhaye. [Bg 7.3]
Dr. Patel: Bhakti is more difficult than that.
Prabhupada: Yes. It is not difficult, but because they are rascals, they made it difficult. Krsna says, "Immediately." Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja aham tvam sarva-papebhyo [Bg 18.66]: "I'll give you protection-immediately, within a second." But they'll not do that. That is maya. Krsna says that it is so easy that you can become immediately brahma-bhūta. Why you should waste time, many, many lives, to come to this conclusion that vasudevah sarvam iti sa mahatma su-durlabhaḥ? Why you should waste your time, many lives? Do it immediately.
Dr. Patel: Sir, we must have wasted our many lives in past, and we must have come to this stage, who knows all about that…
Prabhupada: Hmm, we have come to this stage, we are reading Bhagavad-gita. You do it now. Why you are delaying? If after many, many births I have come to this conclusion, "Surrender to Krsna," why don't you do it now? That is intelligence. [Transl. One man works very hard to accumulate one crore rupees, and another man says, here, you take one crore rupees, stop working. "No sir, I cannot take now."] How rascal he is!
Dr. Patel: [Transl. Now I have to collect two crore.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. No, not two crore. Such a rascal he is! When offered, "Here you take it. Take now."] Take it immediately." But he'll not take it. [Transl. One person says, look, here is a staircase, and here is a lift. If you use the lift you will reach in one minute. And if you climb up the stairs it will take you three hours. But the other person says, no I will go up in three hours. So, let the rascal die, what to do?] [laughter] [Transl. He argues, I have got some duties to carry out. I will go in three hours time. Go then!] Krsna says, "You give up your all duties and just come to Me immediately." [Transl. If we object that I have got some duty. Then what can the poor Krsna do? The good thing about these boys is that they have understood that by going to Krsna all duties will be taken care of.] These boys, they did it. That's all.
Dr. Patel: We are great foolish. [laughter] I understand it before you mentioned.
Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. Yes... [Transl. No, you are a Doctor, well educated. Learned. Doctor.] No, our Krsna consciousness movement is the nicest movement. Only intelligent man can take it. It is a fact. It is a fact.
Dr. Patel: [Transl. Hence I say, we are] fools.
Prabhupada: Fools. There are all fools; otherwise why the movement is there? The movement is there for correcting the fools. Otherwise there is no need of...
Dr. Patel: So many fools are corrected; others are left out. [laughing]
Prabhupada: [aside:] Hare Krsna.
Dr. Patel: [Transl. I will talk to you sometimes later.]
Passerby: [Transl. You are with Svamiji and foreigners and I cannot anyway. You are doing bhakti.]
Dr. Patel: I am not able to do that bhakti. One of the renowned poet of Gujarat. His house is right next to the main temple in Dwaraka.
Prabhupada: There was one devotee, he..., some Queen or somebody, she was approached by somebody that two poets have come... Ah, Kalidasa, yes. "Kalidasa poet has come to see you." So she immediately said, "I know only two poets, Vyasadeva and Valmiki, and all other poets I kick out!"
Dr. Patel: This is Ramayana and Mahabharata.
Prabhupada: "I know only two poets." So she refused to see Kalidasa.
Dr. Patel: One Gosvami refused to see Mirabai, and then she said that "There are only women in vraja and Krsna is the only man..."
Prabhupada: One thing is, we don't find any authoritative scripture that Mirabai ever met Rūpa Gosvami, but they say like that in Vrndavana. But from the life of Rūpa Gosvami, we understand that the Gosvamis were so popular in Vrndavana that if there was any family quarrel, husband and wife, they used to come to Rūpa Gosvami to settle up, and automatically he would give the decision, and they will accept. So how it is possible that he did not see any woman?
Dr. Patel: He did not, it is not, ah, Rūpa Gosvami or Jiva Gosvami; some other Gosvami, they say.
Giriraja: It was Jiva Gosvami.
Prabhupada: Jiva Gosvami?
Giriraja: Yes.
Prabhupada: Why Jiva Gosvami should not see woman? That is also doubtful.
Dr. Patel: He, he did see Mira.
Prabhupada: Caitanya Mahaprabhu also never refused to see woman. But womans were offering respect from a distance, that's all. Not very near. But we don't see that He refused to see woman. Why the Gosvamis will do that?
Dr. Patel: That is the story going round.
Harikesa: There's that story of the one woman who was on His shoulder, on that Nrsimha column looking at Lord Jagannatha, and Govinda tried to take her down and Lord Caitanya said no.
Prabhupada: One woman, out of her eagerness to see Jagannatha, there was big crowd, she jumped up over the shoulder of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, and the devotees said, [in an urgent whisper:] "Come on, come on down. What you are doing?" Caitanya: "No, she is so eager to see Jagannatha. Don't disturb. Don't disturb. Let her stand on My shoulder." So there is no question of hating woman. We want simply devotee, that's all. But unless we are very advanced, we take precaution. That is another thing.
Dr. Patel: Man [mind] is very duragrahi: bigoted, graha-grahi. Mind... I mean Arjuna was told by Bhagavan in sixth adhyaya: chapter, "Mind is so difficult to control..." [Transl. As far as possible try to keep it under control.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. That also Caitanya Mahaprabhu recommended.] He says that "My mind is disturbed even by seeing an wooden doll of a woman." So that is also there.
Dr. Patel: I mean the Vaisnavas, sir, sadhus, they are not expected to look at the pictures of the women even.
Prabhupada: No, no. That is not... Then how Caitanya Mahaprabhu allowed the woman to stand on His shoulder?
Dr. Patel: He is, was a Mahaprabhu. Not for us...
Prabhupada: No, no, no. That is the criterion, that if one is perfect devotee, then it is all right. And so long he is not or she is not perfect devotee, then there is restriction.
Dr. Patel: In the sadhana stage.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Patel: ...it is the sadhaka [practitioner]. [Transl. When he is completely siddha [perfect], then he is, everything is equal to him. Samaḥ sarvesu bhūtesu. [Bg 18.54]
Prabhupada: For kanistha-adhikari.
Dr. Patel: Sarva samesu bhūtesu. We are not sarva sama as yet.
Prabhupada: So it depends on the condition.
Dr. Patel: It is said that they are not only look at the female dolls, or even female picture also.
Prabhupada: But that is moral instruction. That is moral instruction. Even if you are not a devotee, you should not think of these things. That is the moral instruction.
Dr. Patel: Because woman is maya personified.
Prabhupada: The brahmacari, if he thinks of woman, that is also restricted.
Dr. Patel: But in eight ways he must observe brahmacarya. Eight ways. All the five senses and the three..., mind, intelligence and false ego.
Prabhupada: What is the time?
Harikesa: 7.10.
Prabhupada: So we shall return.
Dr. Patel: It 7.20? Seven o'clock. Only seven.
Prabhupada: So who says 7.10?
Dr. Patel: We will go this way, sir.
Harikesa: That's what it says at the airport.
Prabhupada: You are airport?
Harikesa: Airport time.
Dr. Patel: Airport time is wrong. Every clock is very different time there. Each one has got its own standard.
Prabhupada: Some times back when I was a young boy, I went to see a football match in Calcutta Maidana. [football ground] So after finishing, I came walking through the Bentinck Street. So I saw one time in the beginning, and I came to my house, some watch, and clock is giving the same time. [pause] We are giving very simple formula: just become Krsna conscious and all problems will be solved.
Dr. Patel: Very easy formula for all the mūḍhas.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Like us. [laughs raucously]
Prabhupada: The Doctor is...
Dr. Patel: Before you can use anything... I am not afraid.
Prabhupada: This is intelligence. This is not mūḍha; this is intelligence. Guru more murkha dekhi' karila sasana [Cc Adi 7.71]. Caitanya Mahaprabhu said that "My Guru Maharaja saw Me a fool number one."
Dr. Patel: So you see me also that way.
Prabhupada: No. That means He is intelligent. Caitanya Mahaprabhu was not a fool, that's a fact, but He presented Himself like that. He is most learned, but He presented before guru, "I am useless, worthless." Trnad api sunicena...
Dr. Patel: I myself, sir, we are all, we people. I don't mean the bhaktas like you. We are worthless, we people, we really be worthless. Unless you understand your worth... We are really worthless.
Prabhupada: That is very good.
trnad api sunicena
taror api sahisnuna
amanina manadena
kirtaniyaḥ sada hariḥ
taror api sahisnuna
amanina manadena
kirtaniyaḥ sada hariḥ
That is the qualification for chanting Hare Krsna: humbler than the grass, tolerant than the tree, giving all respect to others, expecting no respect for oneself. These are the qualification to become perfect Krsna conscious. Amanitvam adambhitvam ahimsa ksantir arjavam [Bg 13.8]. Amanitva. Although he is very qualified, he says "No, no, no. I have no qualification." Amanitvam. This is amanitvam.
[aside to passerby:] Hare Krsna. Jaya.
This is the beginning of knowledge. Amanitvam adambhitvam ahimsa ksantir arjavam. The materialistic, everyone, they're not amanitvam, wow! "I'm so respectful."
Dr. Patel: Not "I have done this."
Prabhupada: No, no. I don't say. This is the process. Amanitvam adambhitvam. Where is that thing? That is taught from the brahmacari. Brahmacari, a small boy, he is taught that you become amanitvam adambhitvam, and he accepts it. Because he is small, the brahmacari, he may be coming from a king's family, but if he's ordered, "My dear boy, take my shoes and brush it," he'll do it immediately, because he's innocent boy. He learns. Therefore brahmacari gurukule vasan danta. [SB 7.12.1] The mode of life should be trained from the brahmacari.
Dr. Patel: This British public schools, they are doing that. The school of Harrow and the Eton. The first-standard boys have to brush the shoes of the fifth-standard boys, and the fifth to the sixth, and the sixth to the seventh, and first to the second...
Prabhupada: No, why not to the...
Dr. Patel: And the first boy, his shoes goes to the teacher for cleaning.
Prabhupada: Some idea...
Dr. Patel: That is great idea.
Prabhupada: No. That is also imperfect. Anyway, it is something. Amanitvam adambhitvam: they from the very beginning of their life, they address other's wife as "mother," you see? Matrvat para-daresu. This is culture, to see every woman except his own wife as mother. Where is that culture?
Indian man: Mahatma Gandhi also changed his life after brahmacari...
Prabhupada: Hmm?
Indian man: Mahatma Gandhi?
Prabhupada: We are talking of real mahatmas, not politicians.
Indian man: No, no. He was changing after brahmacari, his life.
Prabhupada: I do not know much.
Dr. Patel: He took a big vow. He took a big vow at the age of forty-three years. That mahan, maha-vrata, they call it? For not indulging in sex.
Prabhupada: That is one of the qualification.
Dr. Patel: That is one of them. But by controlling that, sir, people rise much quicker.
Prabhupada: That is a fact.
Dr. Patel: Because I think woman is the personification of maya. You can say that way. The whole thing is, I mean, revolving around that.
Prabhupada: But if you become strong, Krsna conscious...
Dr. Patel: It may go away.
Dr. Patel: We must be Krsna conscious like Mirabai or gopis or big bhaktas, I mean, like I think Narsi Mehta. When his wife died he said, [Transl. "It is good now."] "I will be able to worship God in a better way," when he lost his wife. These are the sign of bhaktas.
Prabhupada: No, that means he became Krsna conscious after his wife's death. [laughing] Not before.
Dr. Patel: I mean, that is a saying, I mean I will be unhindered...
Prabhupada: Why should I expect the death of my wife?
Dr. Patel: No, his wife died, and he accepted that way. He was not expecting. We are all dead so far as we are not Krsna conscious...
Prabhupada: Dhira means in spite of presence of agitation, if one is not agitated, that is dhira. And if I pray that "Here is the cause of agitation. Let her die," that is not very good. [laughter]
Dr. Patel: No, after she died. You have misunderstood me, sir. You are..., you are not... Even a great bhakta, a great Vaisnava bhakta, and I mean I, I don't think he would... He would say...
Prabhupada: Why should I pray for somebody's death?
Dr. Patel: He never prayed for her to die. [everyone laughing] He prayed that because now he will have less hindrance in the worship of God. That is what he meant.
Prabhupada: Yes, that is of course. Vaisnava, vancha-kalpa-tarubhyas ca krpa-sindhubhya eva ca. Vaisnava is an ocean of mercy. Why he should..., we should expect another death? No, no, I'm saying... Nobody, no Vaisnava aspires or thinks that "He may be hampered or he may be harmed for my benefit." No.
Dr. Patel: What he says, sir...
Prabhupada: No, no. I am not talking about him. I mean to say, Vaisnava means para-duḥkha-duḥkhi. Vaisnava should be always duḥkhi for others. Vaisnava personally he has no duḥkha. That is Prahlada Maharaja says. Naivodvije para duratyaya-vaitaranyas tvad-virya-gayana-mahamrta-magna-cittaḥ, soce tato vimukha-cetasa [SB 7.9.43]. They are simply anxious for the persons who are godless. That is their... Even they are godless, even they are enemy of the devotee, still Vaisnava says, "How I can correct him?" Not that "He's my enemy. Let him die." "How I shall correct him?" That is Vaisnava, para-duḥkha-duḥkhi. He is under ignorance, he is talking nonsense-"How shall I correct him?" That is missionary spirit.
Dr. Patel: Ten minutes. 7.10.
Prabhupada: So we can go. It is very nice movement. Even now if sober men, leaders take it they will help us. They have paid already some lakhs, huh?
Devotee: Ashoka gave three lakhs previously.
Prabhupada: How many lakhs...
Giriraja: He gave three lakhs for Vrndavana. He said he wants to give more to...
Prabhupada: No, they are paying. They are devotee.
Devotee: He said he enjoyed the program very much also.
Prabhupada: Who said?
Devotee: Ashoka did.
Prabhupada: Accha? Ashoka's mother said also.
Giriraja: Well, he also, when we were taking dinner, he came up and he said he enjoyed it.
Lokanatha: Ashoka's mother liked the discourse.
Prabhupada: Yes, she said.
Lokanatha: [indistinct]
Prabhupada: Therefore they did not put any question. Yes, that is...
Dr. Patel: Yes. It is very difficult to put question to you. [Prabhupada laughs] You mow the opposition down very badly. [laughter]
Prabhupada: It is all Krsna's...
Dr. Patel: I am a shameless man to give questions to you. [laughs]
Prabhupada: How long did I speak?
Harikesa: Erm, about forty-five minutes.
Prabhupada: That is my standard always.
Dr. Patel: [Transl. Then they must have fed the devotees also.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes, yes.]
Indian man: They always do.
Dr. Patel: In that Birla house.
Prabhupada: Birla house? Yes.
Dr. Patel: Ground floor, no?
Prabhupada: Yes. No…
Lokanatha: Birlas garden.
Indian man: You spoke in the garden.
Giriraja: The program was in the garden.
Dr. Patel: Front garden. That Birla house is renowned. Sardar Patel liked it. The ground floor. I was there, in that Birla house when he expired, at the Birla house.
Prabhupada: He died in Bombay?
Dr. Patel: Yes, in that last room, on that other side. You were in the garden in the front, no?
Indian man: Yes.
Dr. Patel: I was on the side, on the garden side of the room [indistinct].
Prabhupada: [indistinct] once. Kirtanananda Swami has come, he reported that sometimes these European and Americans, they do not like our version, and sometimes they purchase and tear the books, huh? And still they purchase. [laughs] That is the beauty.
Dr. Patel: Europeans, you mean to say?
Prabhupada: No, no, in America. Kirtanananda said. They tear these pages, and again still they purchase. This example is given. Just like hot sugarcane juice. Because it is hot, it cannot be taken. But one cannot avoid tasting it, [laughter] sugarcane juice hot. So because we speak everything against their so-called knowledge, and still they want to taste it. Hot sugarcane juice.
Dr. Patel: Your this Bhagavata commentary is really wonderful. I am critically studying now.
Prabhupada: Thank you.
Dr. Patel: Second reading of mine. On the first reading I just...
Prabhupada: Yes, they read our books for the purport.
Dr. Patel: But you have, I mean, collected from two, three, four or five sources.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Professor Dimmock said that "Here is the commentation who has practiced devotion in his life."
Dr. Patel: That is a fact. I mean, those who are research scholars, they can write down better about their work if... If I write down about something...
Prabhupada: He cannot write the...
Dr. Patel: ...I can't write down that way. Because you have done it, you can do it better.
Prabhupada: That is our mission. Apani acari prabhu jivera sikhaya. First of all you behave yourself, then teach. Without being accomplished in your life, don't teach.
Dr. Patel: It is acaraḥ paramo dharma [following proper codes of conduct is the greatest religion].
[Popular Sanskrit maxims]
Prabhupada: Yes. Apani... Caitanya Mahaprabhu's movement was that. Apani acari prabhu jivera sikhaya.
Dr. Patel: You teach by your action.
Prabhupada: Yes. [break] ...sannyasira alpa chidra bahu kari mane. [Cc Madhya 12.51] This is the warning of Caitanya Mahaprabhu.
Dr. Patel: The Vaisnavas, I mean, teaching is that the Vaisnavas should not see any faults in the sadhus or the sannyasis. Just look at the good side, then forget all of that.
Prabhupada: No, no. That, you may do that. But that is not a sannyasi. Sannyasi is smoking cigarette, drinking tea...
Dr. Patel: Then they are not sannyasis. [Transl. One who has renounced everything is a sannyasis.]
Indian man: [Transl. Pagal Baba smokes cigarette one after another.]
Dr. Patel: [Transl. Which Baba?]
Prabhupada: Hmm, who goes there? No gentleman goes there.
Dr. Patel: [Transl. Who smokes?]
Indian man: [Transl. There is one Pagal Baba in Vrndavana. You don't know. But there….]
Dr. Patel: So many people [Transl. smoke hemp.]
Indian man: Charas. These American boys smoking their hashish, their LSD.
Dr. Patel: They are smoking all sorts of things.
Prabhupada: They have learned from India. The American hippies, they have learned from these so-called rascals. Yes. Ginsberg, he introduced this. He came to India, went to Haridwar, he saw so many rascals, sadhus, smoking ganja: hemp. He thought, "This is the way..."
Dr. Patel: Good! Let us do it!
Prabhupada: No, [Transl. what the poor fellow knows?] Hmm.
Dr. Patel: Same thing-our boys have started smoking LSD in the colleges here. Yes, yes. In Grant Medical College boys have started smoking. They know very well that it is a bad thing, medical students. Never bother the arts and science students.
Indian man: [Transl. Medical Indian students?]
Dr. Patel: [Transl. Oh, they have seen it all now.] Because their ideals are from American presidents. The last president was so idealistic, so... [laughing]
Lokanatha: Just two days back there was, in the newspapers there was..., smoking causes damage to the brain...
Dr. Patel: It causes damage everywhere, because it damages your blood vessel which carries the vital fluid to all the organs. You see, the blood vessels are spoiled and narrowed down so not sufficient amount of blood will get to your brain, to your heart, to your lungs, your everything practically. Follow? This is not one of the things. But the very vital organs. They smoke this ganja, sir, because artificially they go into a sort of a trance. That is what the psychedelic drugs.
Prabhupada: That man also says like that.
Dr. Patel: Psychedelic drugs. I mean I read about these psychedelic drugs, and then, you see, this artificial trance, no doubt, that is much different from the samadhi that you get, or others. But they, that is why they are tempted to do it. Same with the LSD. That means they find some sort of a pleasure in it. Sadhus get pleasure in samadhi; they get this artificial samadhi by drugs. Hah?
Prabhupada: Sadhu, they take pleasure in real happiness. Satyanande. Ramante yoginaḥ anante. Satyananda. They do not know what is satya, so how they will take pleasure?
Dr. Patel: They are atmaramas.
Dr. Patel: Temporarily they get this param satya... [laughs]
Prabhupada: Yogi means satyananda...
Dr. Patel: [Transl. They derive temporary pleasure.]
Indian man: [Transl. Temporary. It is temporary. They would smoke once and lie down for fifteen minutes then get up and smoke again.]
Dr. Patel: [Transl. The smokers, they go down after smoking one hooka. Once, then they feel like… Not one man...]
Indian man: [Transl. Prabhupada, what happens to those who smoke opium, I have seen in Burma. There is a big hall in which there are so many wooden cots…]
Dr. Patel: [Transl. Khanjaskhana. It is called Khanjaskhana.]
Indian man: [Transl. The cots are set up already. There is a big pipe. They will take a long puff from the pipe and lie down. Again they will get up and smoke. I was surprised.]
Dr. Patel: [Transl. Did you ever smoke?]
Indian man: [Transl. I never smoked. I went with my father to see a patient. My father wasn't surprised. I was surprised why so many people are sleeping there?]
Dr. Patel: The whole, I mean, Japan was practically done, I mean, done to practical death by this opium smoking.
Prabhupada: China.
Dr. Patel: Yes, whole China.
Prabhupada: [Transl. How did that happen?] The Britishers, they were taking opium from India and selling there and making money.
Dr. Patel: And now Chinese leaders were rejoicing that American boys smoking LSD. I read in papers. [Transl. Good, good. Well done! It's a reward for them.]
Indian man: [Transl. Now no one is there in China to smoke.]
Dr. Patel: Because they simply hang them.
Prabhupada: Saurabha, you have brought these logs from Vrndavana?
Saurabha: Yes.
Prabhupada: So why they are lying idle?
Saurabha: They are not ours, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Then why it was brought here?
Saurabha: They were used for scaffolding.
Dr. Patel: Scaffolding?
Saurabha: They will be used for the scaffolding. For those high things. Because otherwise we have to cut them, and it's very waste of money.
Prabhupada: Hmm?
Saurabha: If we cut them...
Prabhupada: No, not cutting.
Saurabha: No. These poles, they all set in size nine feet. Those there, they're about fifteen to eighteen feet. So we use them only for the scaffolding.
Dr. Patel: [Transl. It getting cooler now. Work is going on swiftly.] Anyhow, they have done it very quickly. Our engineers could not go so quick as that. You are quite fast. And the structure is very strong.
Prabhupada: [laughter] I say they are quite slow.
Dr. Patel: No, no, but it takes its own time for wiring and all these things. How can an engineer accelerate that natural process? And that structure is really extremely strong. I feel like that.
Prabhupada: No, no. We want to see the temple also. [kirtana] [end]
|
Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/?g=158708
|