Audio
Prabhupada: ...their civilization from monkey, and our civilization begins from...
Dr. Patel: From Vedas.
Prabhupada: ...Brahma. Brahma.
Dr. Patel: And Brahma, actually, when he learned the Vedas.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Those four or five slokas, five or four slokas, original of Srimad-Bhagavatam, I want to learn from you. I have read all the commentary-You have written commentaries four, four pages-but I think I am little a mūḍha to understand it. [laughing] So I will learn directly if you can teach me. I am now critically studying your..., this thing, commentary on this.
Prabhupada: Hmm. [aside:] Hare Krsna.
Dr. Patel: Once I read it, but now I am doing a critical study of it. Both of Sanskrit as well of your comments. [break]
Prabhupada: ...divided them by separate words.
Dr. Patel: The Sanskrit written in too much of tat-purusa-samasa [determinative compounds]. The combination of this word is so difficult...
Dr. Patel: No, no. But unless, I mean, I like Sanskrit myself, so I try to learn Sanskrit; I can read other, more Sanskrit books. So it is a sort of a study with me, as well as a knowledge of Bhagavata. So I am trying to be more critical about it. But that way I have read Bhagavata in Gujarati, even in Hindi of those people, Gorakhpur.
Prabhupada: [break] ...Visnu Purana.
Dr. Patel: Visnu Purana is…Visnu-sahasra-nama [one thousand names of Visnu] is from Mahabharata. It is very easy Sanskrit. Extremely easy.
Prabhupada: [aside:] Hare Krsna.
Dr. Patel: Some of the..., some people try to poke at us also.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Dr. Patel: They are fools.
Prabhupada: What is that?
Dr. Patel: Well, because we, we chant God's name, out of fun they also say. But we...
Prabhupada: That is also good.
Dr. Patel: That we should not take it like that.
Prabhupada: If one chants Hare Krsna jokingly, that is also good.
Dr. Patel: That's it. Yesterday morning you came?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Patel: I thought you were coming tonight. Because you..., in your letter has written that you reach on the 17th.
Prabhupada: Let there... God says, "Let there be creation," and there was creation. Why three months?
Dr. Patel: Ah, that is, we are not... [laughing]
Prabhupada: He says, "Let there be creation"; there was creation. That's it.
Dr. Patel: It was the will of God, so this is also the will of God, even it be six month.
Prabhupada: Here you see, God says, "You come here," immediately you come. "You go there," immediately you go there.
[Dr. Patel laughs loudly]
You cannot bring the water by your scientific process immediately. But when God says "Immediately"-within a second.
[aside:] Hare Krsna.
Dr. Patel: I am going to give you a small piece of news. My, that small daughter, she also stood first-class, first distinction M.D.
Prabhupada: Oh, [Transl. Very good!]
Indian man: [Transl. In M.D?]
Dr. Patel: Yes. She also stood first. My son also stood first and got the gold medal. She also got the same, by your grace.
Prabhupada: [laughs] By Krsna's grace.
Dr. Patel: This is a unique performance in Bombay, that no doctor's two children have got first like this.
Prabhupada: Hmm. All of them M.D.?
Dr. Patel: M.D. Very distinguished, first class. I was very much pleased by their performance. [break]
Prabhupada: ...one is animal. So animal means ferocious. Dharmena hinaḥ pasubhiḥ samana [Hitopadesa]. Pasubhiḥ samanaḥ They're as good as animal. You cannot expect any good behavior from animals. This is going on. They want to keep the whole population animal, and they're making big, big plans-United Nation, this, that.
Dr. Patel: This is a fraud. It's committed fraud on poor nations of the world, this United Nations.
Prabhupada: There is no education for making people a human being.
Dr. Patel: Karl Marx, Hegel and all the Engels and those people have got this nonsensical idea that interaction of matter itself produces what we call consciousness. It is not the consciousness which, I mean, aggregates with the matter. The very first basis on which the whole this rascaldom is, I mean, the basis is this: revolting against the tenets of Hindu teaching. No?
Prabhupada: Hindu-Muslim teaching...
Dr. Patel: No, I mean sanatana dharma of this country.
Prabhupada: Sanatana dharma, there is no teaching; it is already there.
Dr. Patel: Yes, that's it.
Prabhupada: There is no concoction.
Dr. Patel: This concoction has come out from there.
Prabhupada: Yes. No, everywhere. In your country also there are so many parties...
Dr. Patel: Karl Marx...
Prabhupada: Karl Marx maybe. Even your Gandhi-ism, that is also concoction. "Gandhi invented nonviolence," that is also concoction. It is impossible. So everyone is doing this-something manufacturing. That is not sanatana dharma. Sanatana dharma is never manufactured. It is already there. You have to accept it, that's all. Otherwise everyone is manufacturing some concoction. This is going on. Hare Krsna. Krsna is teaching, "Fight." And Gandhi is teaching from Bhagavad-gita nonviolence. Just see. Is it possible?
Dr. Patel: The will of God is the real thing.
Prabhupada: Yes, that is Krsna consciousness. His will is supreme. Whatever He says, that's all right. As soon as you manufacture, everything is spoiled.
Dr. Patel: It is fractured by man instead of manufacturing. Fractured, broken.
Prabhupada: Yes. Andha yathandhair upaniyamanas te 'pisa-tantryam uru-damni baddhaḥ [SB 7.5.31]. Īsa-tantra, by the laws of God or nature, everyone is tied up, hands and legs, and he's thinking independently, "I can do this."
Dr. Patel: But slowly and slowly, sir, the modern science is trying to prove that sanatana dharma, the existence of God, everywhere, which in our times, if we respect scientists for their...
Prabhupada: "They are trying to prove" means so long they are rascals.
Dr. Patel: They are rascals. I quite agree with you. You have caught my rascals. [both laughing]
Prabhupada: As soon as they say "progressing," that means they are rascals. Unless one is rascal, where is the meaning of progress? Hmm? Rascal requires progress.
Dr. Patel: Whether they do progress or regress we don't know, but...
Prabhupada: No, progress means still rascal. After ten years they'll make no... This is progress. So they have no standard knowledge, and that is very much palatable, modern progress. Mūḍha.
Dr. Patel: But sincerely by all these six, six, I mean sastra, I mean what you call darsanas, our forefathers have realized God, by all the six methods of darsanas.
Prabhupada: You... Why your forefathers? Everyone's forefather can understand.
Dr. Patel: No, no. Only civilized people's forefathers. [laughs] The Aryan race. Nyaya [science of logic] Vaisesika [basic metaphysical categories of reality] also has proved the same thing. This, such sastra, I mean darsanas, are all from the Vedas. They are all from the Vedas, you see.
Prabhupada: No, they are not strictly Vedas. They are partial. Just like mimamsa. They say that you do good work and you get the result. That is godlessness.
Dr. Patel: Pūrva-mimamsa. Karma-kanḍis.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Patel: But a karma-kanḍi is one of the parts of the Vedas.
Prabhupada: "There is no need of God. You do your duty."
Dr. Patel: And God will do His duty.
Prabhupada: "God is obliged to give you the award." That is their philosophy. [break]
Dr. Patel: What is that?
Prabhupada: We can practically see. Suppose two men working very hard, are they getting the same result?
Dr. Patel: No, that is their karma, karma bandhana. [bondage of fruitive action]
Prabhupada: Then? [aside:] Hare Krsna. Jaya. Hare Krsna. Jaya.
Dr. Patel: That explanation of yours, this, is so very wonderful about the all mukta and baddha jivas in the beginning, I mean the Bhagavatam, they were given free will, whether to remain mukta or baddha. And then when they became baddha, they were overtaken by the lower maya. And then this is the whole cosmos. So gravely I have understood this best. This is my second reading.
Prabhupada: Krsna bhuliya jiva bhoga vancha kare pasete maya tare japatiya dhare. [Prema-vivarta 6.2]
["When an individual soul forgets his eternal relationship with God and tries to lord it over the material nature, that forgetful condition is called maya, or illusion."]
Dr. Patel: I think this one commentary is Jiva Gosvami's.
Prabhupada: Hmm? Yes. Jiva... Not Jiva Gosvami. There are... I consult so many others.
Dr. Patel: This commentary is Rūpa Gosvami or Jiva Gosvami? Jiva Gosvami.
Prabhupada: No, we have got Visvanatha Cakravarti also. Sridhara Swami, Biraraghava, Vijayadvaja.
Indian man (2): [Transl. Gurudeva.]
Prabhupada: [Transl. Is your health all right?]
Indian man (2): [Transl. He is my Guru Maharajaji. Radhe Krsna Radhe Krsna… ]
Dr. Patel: This man is seventy-years-old devotee.
Indian man (2): [Transl. Ohhh! Dear friends. Hare Krsna Hare Krsna…]
Dr. Patel: Maybe he is sixty-eight, sixty-nine years. See the way he walks... [laughing] He wants to remain young that way.
Prabhupada: Healthy. He's quite healthy.
Indian man: [Transl. Always remains jolly.]
Prabhupada: Ah?
Indian man: [Transl. Always remains happy. If you don't talk to him he says, why are you not talking to me?]
Dr. Patel: [Transl. Keep laughing. Laugh.] He's a iron merchant. Iron.
Indian man: [Transl. No, not iron merchant.]
Dr. Patel: [Transl. No! Then where?] I quite immediately. I am sure I am right. [laughing]
Prabhupada: We repeat simply Krsna's statement. [laughter] That is our... We don't manufacture. Our mission is Krsna's standard-yare dekha, tare kaha 'krsna'-upadesa. This is Caitanya Mahaprabhu's mission. Don't manufacture, rascaldom. Simply repeat what Krsna has said. And it is simple. And as soon as you try to manufacture, it becomes difficult. How Caitanya Mahaprabhu has made things so easy.
That's all. How simple it is. You, every one of us, we take this missionary activities of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, we see immediately the face of the country will change. Every gentleman, every sane man, may speak to his family, to his community, to his nation, to his friend, what Krsna has said. Then see the result. But they're all manufacturing concoction, becoming big scholars. The more you deviate from Krsna's instruction, you become a scholar.
Dr. Patel: I mean the industrial revolutions have really produced a sort of a turmoil in the social set-up.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Patel: Because the machine has produced goods, and the benefit has been taken over by the crafty people.
Dr. Patel: Yes. Ugra karma.
Prabhupada: Instead of making life simplified, they have made it a turmoil.
Dr. Patel: And then the whole society had been so entangled in this things. Independently [indistinct]. In this way this industrialization, raising of the wants of men, and then production for the fulfilling of their wants. Only men engaged all the twenty-four hours in this fulfillment of the wants. All the machines are grinding for that-production of the goods, not for the good... [break]
Prabhupada: ...Karl Marx, why not others?
Dr. Patel: Karl Marx is the grandfather of all of this.
Prabhupada: Anyone who is concocting, he is a asura. Hmm? Na vidur asuraḥ jana. Pravrttim ca nivrttim ca na vidur asuraḥ jana [Bg 16.7] [Transl. These demoniac people do not even know what to do.]
Dr. Patel: What is real pravrtti.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Patel: aḍhyo 'bhijanavan asmi ko 'nyo 'sti sadrso maya [Bg 16.15] That is what they want. They are competing with each other. [Transl. I am better than you.]
Prabhupada: [aside:] Hare Krsna, Jaya. [break] No. Why Karl Marx? Your Vivekananda says yata mata tata patha: whatever you manufacture, that is all right.
Dr. Patel: That is because you are struck by the utter poverty of the people.
Prabhupada: No, no...
Dr. Patel: It was temporary, you see. Because here Karl Marx wanted it permanent, and...
Prabhupada: He himself is suffering from poverty-of knowledge.
Dr. Patel: That is not... Karl Marx, he committed the greatest sin...
Prabhupada: Krsna says, mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg 18.66], and Vivekananda says yata mata tatha patha. Just see. He is poverty-stricken of knowledge, and he's giving knowledge. Just see the fun. Caitanya Mahaprabhu said, guru more mūrkha dekhi' karila sasana : "My guru found Me, seeing Me, I am a fool number one, he has chastised Me." What is that? "Don't read Vedanta; You cannot understand. Chant Hare Krsna," because...
Dr. Patel: Here we are talking about the divya, divine part of the...
Prabhupada: Because, no, He was questioned...
Dr. Patel: ...of the life. I talk of the maintenance of the body. To maintain the body Karl Marx put up this theory and, I mean, spoiled the whole thing-whole society and social set-up.
Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. Jaya. [Transl. Is your health all right, no?]
Passerby: [Transl. Yes, by your blessing. Your mercy.]
Dr. Patel: Marx is teaching the highest...
Prabhupada: Everyone is manufacturing; that is my point. Either Karl Marx or this one or that one, everyone is manufacturing. Nobody is taking the instruction. And our mission is "Take instruction of Krsna." This is Krsna consciousness. We don't manufacture like nonsense. What you'll manufacture? You are imperfect, your senses are imperfect...
Dr. Patel: We are manufacturing only for the body, but all these...
Prabhupada: Nothing you can manufacture, even in the body. You are medical practitioner. Hundreds of men you see, different types of body. Is it not? You cannot say that "This is the standard." Karanam guna-sahgo 'sya sad-asad-yoni-janmasu [Bg 13.22]. The actual disease is the contamination of the guna.
Dr. Patel: But they desire the people who are manufacturing for the gunas only, and not for the soul. That is what I am hinting at, sir.
Prabhupada: That is another ignorance. That is another ignorance.
Dr. Patel: These fellows... That is what I said, that they are ignorant because they are only doing everything for the gunas and not for the soul.
Prabhupada: The soul is gunatita [trancendental]. They do not understand, traigunya-visaya veda nistraigunyo bhavarjuna [Bg 2.45]. Everyone is contaminated by the...
Dr. Patel: All the lower..., all this knowledge is no doubt traigunya. Superior knowledge. But spiritual knowledge is beyond the three gunas.
Prabhupada: Yes. Sa gunan samatityaitan brahma-bhūyaya kalpate [Bg 14.26]. We have to transcend all these gunas, and that is Krsna consciousness. Now they are realizing even in Western countries. They are realizing.
Dr. Patel: But they will realize [Transl. only after hard beating.] They will learn it by getting beaten up with these...
Prabhupada: [Transl. We are also beaten up, but we are behaya: shameless. No matter how hard you beat us with shoes, we never learn.]
Dr. Patel: [laughing] We are very hard...
Prabhupada: Behaya. What is the meaning of Behaya?
Indian man: We tolerate everything.
Prabhupada: No, Behaya.
Indian man: Shameless. Shameless.
Prabhupada: [Transl. One man said, look, that person beat me with shoes, called ill names, and then warned me I will insult you. What more remains to be insulted?]
Indian man: What is left after.
Dr. Patel: The whole civilization, the modern civilization, is wholly at fault. Unfortunately. And that is the schools we are sending our children to, and these are the public schools.
Prabhupada: [Transl. We are opening a gurukula. But who will send their children? Not everyone? In Vrndavana.]
Dr. Patel: You are creating place of knowledge, after all they will pay.
Prabhupada: We are opening gurukula, but who will give? A gentleman will not give.
[aside:] Hare Krsna. Jaya.
Dr. Patel: He's a great scholar and poet of Gujarati literature, and he comes from the same place where the... Dvaraka-bet: The original house of Lord Krsna presently situated on an island 2 KM from Dvaraka. He's from Bet, Dvaraka-bet, where all those temples are.
Prabhupada: He's a devotee of Krsna?
Dr. Patel: Yes, he's a brahmana devotee of Krsna. And a great teacher. He was a university professor of Gujarati literature and a great, well-renowned poet of Gujarat.
Prabhupada: [to man] So you do not come to our temple?
Indian man (2): Don't believe what he says. [laughter] I am just an humble servant.
Prabhupada: That is wanted. That is Krsna consciousness. Gopi bhartuḥ pada-kamalayor dasanudasaḥ [Cc Madhya 13.80].
Dr. Patel: He only writes poems on God, Mr. Bethai. Professor of the university. His name is Bethai, because he comes from the Bet.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Dr. Patel: Dvaraka-bet. [break]
Prabhupada: [Tirtha-yatra parisrama kevala manera bhrama: visiting holy places is simply another type of bewilderment.] [Sri Prema-bhakti-candrika 3.5] Don't go to any... Sit down anywhere and chant Hare Krsna.
Dr. Patel: The places of worship are sacred because of the..., because sacred people are living there.
Prabhupada: Govinda carana kara sara-always think of Govinda carana. Prahlada Maharaja also. Mukundam caranambujam. [SB 7.6.4] Make this business only. And Raghunatha dasa Gosvami also says, he, "Don't execute dharma, neither commit sinful life. Simply think of Krsna's lotus feet." [Sri Manaḥ-siksa 2] Krsna also says, man-mana bhava mad-bhakto... [Bg 18.65].
Dr. Patel: Sir, lotus feet: these are..., these people are actually putting such a long border that I am trying to see the lotus feet of God here, of arca-vigraha. Well, I am unable to here. Instruct them to put up, little border up, so that we can have darsana of His sacred feet. Please. Tell them. Too long borders, you simply can't see anything. You were there on...
Giriraja: That's in the morning, because of the nightdresses. But after the srhgara is changed for the day, you can see.
Prabhupada: How He's sat tight to call everyone, "Come and see." Hmm? The Municipality came to drive Him away.
Dr. Patel: You see the present municipal, I mean, administration has fallen into the hands of rogue rascals and third grade people, you know, because of these so-called adult franchise... [break] [end]
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