740326MW.BOM

Prabhupada: ...not this, not that. That will not help. You must act in such a way that these people accept you as superior.

[break] ...[Hindi] [break] ...not a paid servant.

[break] ...bring Bhagavan at your control. You can bring Him at your control by love. Just like Yasodamayi. She's showing the stick: "Krsna, if You do like this, then I will chastise You." And He's crying. That is prema. [break] Prema pum-artho mahan [Caitanya-manjusa]. That is the highest achievement, to achieve the love of Godhead. And if you love God, then you achieve love of everyone. [Hindi] [break]

Dr. Patel: I like you calling me... "What is that, what you are doing now?" [laughs] [break]

Prabhupada: [Hindi] [break] ...Mahaprabhu has taught us that to remain a fool and rascal before spiritual master is the first qualification of the disciple. Always remain a fool and rascal.

Dr. Patel: Caitanya Mahaprabhu preached after, after...

Prabhupada: Guru more murkha, guru more murkha dekhi, karila sasana . "My Guru Maharaja has chastised Me, considering Me a fool number one." So Caitanya Mahaprabhu said, guru more murkha dekhi: "My Guru Maharaja saw Me a first-class murkha, fool. And therefore he has chastised Me." That is the standard of guru and sisya. A guru... And Canakya Pandita says, lalane bahavo dosah. "If you pat, there are so many bad things."

Dr. Patel: Pat the dog, it will lick your face.

Prabhupada: Lalane bahavo dosas tadane bahavo gunah. "And if you chastise, there are so many good qualities." Tasmat putram ca sisyam ca tadayen.

Dr. Patel: Na tu lalayet.

Prabhupada: Na tu lalayet. Therefore either son or disciple, you must always chastise him, not pat him, "Oh, you are very good boy." "You are nothing. You are doing nothing." That is the business of the guru, to find out fault.

Dr. Patel: Don't spare the rod.

Prabhupada: [chuckles] Although there is no fault, the guru's business is to: "Where is his fault?" That is guru's business. Tasmad tadayen na tu lalayet.

Dr. Patel: Yesterday you had a very big congregation here? Or all the chairs were kept out?

Prabhupada: Yes. People were coming. Therefore we have given. Not very big congregation, but many people came.

Dr. Patel: You are doing in the Fourth Adhyaya.

Prabhupada: Huh?

Dr. Patel: You are doing in the Fourth Adhyaya for that?

Prabhupada: Fourth Adhyaya. Yes. Bahuni me vyatitani janmani tava carjuna [Bg 4.5].

[break] [Hindi] [break] ...he shall become locust.

Dr. Patel: All locust.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Dr. Patel: Not only that, but the, this, what is this...? [break]

Prabhupada: ...varna, there are symptoms. Yad anyatrapi drsyeta tat tenaiva vinirdiset [SB 7.11.35]. "If you find those laksanas, symptoms, even in.. in other place..." Suppose if you find the symptoms of candala in the family of a brahmana, he's a candala; he's not brahmana.

Dr. Patel: But he is a born candala and also wants to be a king, he can't be.

Prabhupada: But that is... Because you are... You are... We are, rather, we are also candalas. [laughs] Therefore we select a candala as president.

Indian man (1): Select. We have selected him.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Indian man (1): You are right.

Prabhupada: [Hindi] [break] Any intelligent man will say like that. I said... When they fought so much for Hindi language, I said that "Why not Sanskrit?"

Dr. Patel: If you make Sanskrit a compulsory language, forced language, I mean the effort that you have put up to... [break]

Prabhupada: "...both you and Me, we have changed so many times, taken birth. But you have forgotten; I have not forgotten." Why this difference?

Dr. Patel: Because God has got the same body throughout in all the avataras, while you change your body. Iccha-dvesa samutthena dvandva-mohena bharata [Bg 7.27]. By, at that time... [break]

Prabhupada: ...if God does not change His body, why these rascals consider Krsna as human being?

Dr. Patel: Who considers?

Prabhupada: Mudhas.

Dr. Patel: I am a mudha. [laughter] [break]

Prabhupada: ...mudha manusim tanum asritam. You are not mudha, but if you think Krsna...

Dr. Patel: You sometimes call me a very intelligent and other times you call me a dud. Now who am I? I forget myself. [break]

Prabhupada: ...avajananti mam mudhah [Bg 9.11].

Dr. Patel: Manusim tanum asritam.

Prabhupada: These so-called, the so-called big, big leaders, big, big philosophers, and big, big scholars, they have accepted Krsna as ordinary human being or "There was no Krsna." Just see how much mudha they are.

Dr. Patel: Now, they... There is a section of scholars who think that Krsna was not a personality at any time, but it is a legend. But others say that even if it is a legend, it is worth following and worshiping.

Prabhupada: No, no. Both of them are mudhas.

Dr. Patel: They are three, four types of...

Prabhupada: Both of them are mudhas. Because one who thinks that it is not a fact, and one who thinks that "Even it is not fact...," both of them do not know actually.

Indian man (1): Avyaktam vyaktim apannam [Bg 7.24].

Prabhupada: Ah. Manyante mam...

Indian man (1): Abuddhayah.

Prabhupada: Abuddhayah. That is the position. "God is nirakara. Now He has assumed a form, accepting maya." This is Mayavada philosophy.

Dr. Patel: No, but the difference between God and us, that the God has control over the maya, while we are controlled by the maya, the jivas.

Prabhupada: But they do not know what is maya even.

Dr. Patel: Then if they know maya, then you call them Mayavadis.

Prabhupada: No, no. Mayavadi is different.

Dr. Patel: And you call them rascals.

Prabhupada: Mayavadi is different.

Dr. Patel: These men also.

Prabhupada: Mayavadi is different. But those who are completely ignorant, that is another thing. That is another thing. Mayavadis, they pose themselves as knowing everything.

Dr. Patel: But I tell you, Saṅkaracarya was not that Mayavadi which you call Mayavadi. He was...

Prabhupada: I am not talking of Saṅkaracarya.

Dr. Patel: Saṅkaracarya's philosophy had been misunderstood, and they are, those are the people who, real Mayavadis. Saṅkaracarya was, I mean, a... [break]

Prabhupada: [Hindi] [break] There is no mercy. If he says, "No, no. I shall..., I shall rub over your belly and it will be cured," is that the means? It must go on, operation, surgical operation. That is treatment. If you become kind, "No, no, no, it is very difficult. I will give you something; it will cure," that is not treatment. [Hindi]

[break] Tan aham dvisatah kruran ksipamy ajasram asurisv eva yonisu [Bg 16.19]. No mercy. "You surrender. Otherwise, if you are envious, then I am sending you to the darkest region of ignorance."

[break] [Hindi] [break] ...after, evacuating.

Giriraja: Well, I thought that everyone knew. We follow that.

Dr. Patel: They wash their hands seven times with soap and water.

Devotee: Prabhupada, they may not be able... [heavy wind]

Prabhupada: But why they not...

Dr. Patel: If one man does not do it, the bathroom gets infected and all of us get infection. [break]

Prabhupada: ...do not learn?

Devotee: [indistinct] [break]

Dr. Patel: No, diarrhea, bad stomach, they may get vomiting also tomorrow. One man vomited also. [break]

Prabhupada: ...keeping dogs. Is that hygienic?

Dr. Patel: Dogs?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Dr. Patel: Unhygienic. They, they make dogs sleep in their bed.

Prabhupada: Just see.

Dr. Patel: On their laps and all that thing, and what not. [break]

Prabhupada: ...standard. Chanting Hare Krsna mantra...

Dr. Patel: That is the best medicine.

Prabhupada: That is the best medicine.

Dr. Patel: But sometimes augmentary medicine also is necessary.

Prabhupada: Yah smaret pundarikaksam sa bahyabhyantara-sucih [Garuda Purana]. Either take this medical or chant twenty-four hours Hare Krsna.

Dr. Patel: And don't eat.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Dr. Patel: I... I chastised them by asking them to starve for one day. So they... [break]

Prabhupada: ...take bath in the ocean?

Yasomatinandana: No, drinking water.

Prabhupada: Oh.

Dr. Patel: And the drinking water also should be strained to, to...

Indian man (1): That is most important part.

Dr. Patel: Through two muslin cloths. That is the [indistinct]. [break]

Prabhupada: ...fire it, and keep it. It is all right. [break] ...do no service. [japa]

Dr. Patel: I have, you see, I have seen in England in my training days in the College of Tropical Medicine and our hospital... [break]

Prabhupada: ...for all disease. Bhavausadhac chrotra..., nivrtta-tarsair upagiyamanat [SB 10.1.4].

Dr. Patel: I was told you are going away on sixth?

Prabhupada: Eh?

Dr. Patel: You are going... [break]

Prabhupada: ...rent tax, about... Suppose the father is tenant.

Dr. Patel: Rent tax [indistinct]. Rent tax.

Prabhupada: If the father is tenant.

Indian man (1): Rent tax? What is it?

Prabhupada: No, in the rent tax, suppose the father is tenant, and the father dies, then the son be...

Indian man (1): Son gets it.

Prabhupada: Gets it.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Indian man (1): [indistinct] [break]

Prabhupada: ...to live in the water and to fight with the crocodile...

Yasomatinandana: It is not very good.

Prabhupada: ...it is not very good position. So there are crocodiles. How long you'll fight with them like that? Chant Hare Krsna. We have no difficulty in chanting and working.

Dr. Patel: Let's go this way.

Prabhupada: We are mudha, and they are big mudhas. That's all.

Dr. Patel: That's right. [break] [Indians talk in background] Not only spiritually; he was a social revolutionary, a spiritual revolutionary economic revolutionary and what not.

Indian man (1): It was a combined revolution. [break]

Prabhupada: ...there is no revolution, because that is one. Everyone is in agreement with God. That is spiritual world. Therefore there is no question of revolution.

Dr. Patel: If everyone was in agreement with God, there would not have been all sorts of quarrel and Mara-mari and [indistinct] this... [break]

Prabhupada: Everyone is not. That is the defect. Everyone is not in agreement.

Dr. Patel: Actually, they divided into camps... [break]

Prabhupada: They do not know how these things coming, and how to amend it, how to reform it. [break] ...countries, they are not happy.

Dr. Patel: They are not happy because the Communism is not in the right. Communism is Carvaka philo... [break]

Prabhupada: ...others, they're also in the same background.

Dr. Patel: No, certain basic amenities are necessary. That is..., has been provided in the Hindu religion. What you have to... [break] We have to remind them because your philosophy and that is... [break]

Prabhupada: So you first of all follow. You first of all follow. Then you teach them.

Dr. Patel: Baba... [break]

Prabhupada: ...follow, how can I teach them?

Dr. Patel: We are following of the... We have been taught the European way. We are following their method.

Prabhupada: Therefore you are not following.

Dr. Patel: So we will come to the Communism again... [break]

Prabhupada: ...Mahaprabhu says, apani acari prabhu jive sikhaila.

Dr. Patel: That's right.

Prabhupada: You must first of all behave yourself. Then you can teach.

Dr. Patel: That is why, I tell you... I cite an example of Gandhi... [break]

Prabhupada: ...one is Krsna conscious, he cannot have any good quality. And if one becomes Krsna conscious, all the good qualities will automatically come to him. Therefore this is the only treatment, to educate people how to become Krsna conscious. Then everything will be settled up. One remedy.

Indian man (1): For all disease.

Prabhupada: For all disease. That is also... Krsna says in the Bhagavad-gita, mam ca yo 'vyabhicarena bhakti-yogena sevate, sa gunan samatityaitan... [Bg 14.26]. These varieties of different qualities due to these material modes of nature, but if you transcend... Just like if you remain in the water, there are so many symptoms of danger. You come out of the water, there is no danger. You cannot expect, even if you have got the best boat, you cannot expect that you are safe in the water. But if you remain one inch above the water, then there is no danger. So this devotional service is like that. Sa gunan samatityaitan brahma-bhuyaya kalpate [Bg 14.26]. As soon one is fully engaged in devotional service, then he's above this material atmosphere. [end]