Morning Walk in Public Gardens – August 23, 1976, Hyderabad

One or two children, they are not satisfied

Mahamsa: It's just a club for children, for playing. That's all. [break]

Prabhupada: We shall go this way or this way?

Mahamsa: If you like you can go... This will be moist.

Harikesa: There's no real path there.

Mahamsa: There's a path over here. Why don't you go around here? This is an archaeological museum, Prabhupada.

Matahga: Before it was an archaeological museum. Old carvings of various temple deities, but they just keep it like that, so.

Devotee: It's not open now, though.

Devotee (2): Is it open?

Devotee: No.

Prabhupada: Even it is open, what we have to do there?

[pause]

Harikesa: Like to go this way, Srila Prabhupada? [break]

Mahamsa: "Lesser the happier."

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Mahamsa: "Lesser the happier."

Prabhupada: "Lesser the happier"?

Basu Ghosh: Family planning.

Prabhupada: That is a fact. Trpyanti neha krpana. That is the verdict of Bhagavata also. Trpyanti neha krpana bahu-duḥkha-bhajaḥ. Krpana na iha trpyanti. One or two child, children, they are not satisfied. They want to produce more and invite distress more. Trpyanti neha krpana bahu-duḥkha-bhajaḥ. But they are practicing in a different way. And Bhagavata recommends brahmacari.

[to passerby:] Hare Krsna. Jaya.

You know this gentleman?

[pause]

Instead of begetting more and more children by sex, it is better... Better means dhiraḥ. And tolerate the itching sensation. This is recommended. But the itching sensation is so strong nobody can stop. We shall go inside? No.

Mahamsa: Yes, we can walk from here.

Prabhupada: Trpyanti neha krpana bahu-duḥkha-bhajaḥ. Unless one diverts attention to Krsna consciousness it is not possible. One must have some business, engagement. Just like in New York as soon as there was electric failure for four hours, so many women became pregnant. Because he has no business in the darkness. But if he was trained up to chant Hare Krsna, one could utilize the time for chanting Hare Krsna. But they have not such training. Nobody has such training. So how they will utilize the time? "Come on, let us have..." Although he knows...

Matahga: Especially, Prabhupada, when there is a famine, where there is no more food... They had big famine...

Prabhupada: Food, there is punishment. It is not the... Famine is punishment from the side of nature. She'll not supply to the raksasas. That is a punishment. Otherwise, there is no question of population. You may have as many... Just like the birds and beasts. They do not care for... They have got enough food. But they do not violate the laws of the nature.

Harikesa: One may argue that in nature there is this leveling out of the species, that one species kills another off so that the population is maintained at the proper level.

Prabhupada: No species killed by another species. It is rascal proposal.

Harikesa: Well, members of the species are killed by...

Prabhupada: That is another thing. Jivasya jiva..., jivo jivanam. One animal is eating another animal. That is another thing. But that does not mean species finished. That is nonsense.

Harikesa: No, I didn't mean... So the human being, the animals can't kill off the human being, so that the people have to do it.

Prabhupada: Huh? What is that?

Harikesa: The people have to do it to maintain the population level. We have to kill some of the children so that it doesn't become out of control, like the animals do it.

Prabhupada: You are less than animal. You are greatest animal. You want to kill your children.

Basu Ghosh: But they have no life. There is only, you know, an amoeba in the womb.

Prabhupada: Don't talk nonsense, waste time. All rascals' proposal. Don't indulge in this rascal theory.

Matahga: Now there is a society for prevention to the cruelty to animals. At the same time they are killing the animals also. [laughs]

Mahamsa: They think they can adjust and control.

Prabhupada: Mūḍha.

Indian Life Member: There is a preordained karma that says some human being should come into existence or some spirit soul should take some body.

Prabhupada: Transmigration.

Indian Life Member: How can you reconcile this birth control with that?

Prabhupada: Birth control-by brahmacari. You become brahmacari.

Indian Life Member: No, by this contraceptive and otherwise.

Prabhupada: That is most sinful activity. Birth control should be done by restrained sex life.

Indian Life Member:That is one way.

Prabhupada: That is the way. Other way, all sinful.

Indian Life Member: Sinful, but sinful things are being committed...

Prabhupada: They'll suffer. They'll suffer. Those who are killing the children, they will be killed. They will enter into the mother's womb and they will be killed. They'll be punished. Tit for tat. That they do not know. [aside:] This way or that way?

Indian Life Member: This way. This way.

Prabhupada: These rascals, they have no education about this law of nature. Prakrteḥ kriyamanani gunaiḥ karmani sarvasaḥ [Bg 3.27]. They're acting very independently. But ahahkara-vimūḍhatma kartaham iti manyate [Bg 3.27]. Rascals, ahahkara, vimūḍhatma. So they are rascals. They'll be punished. Just like a thief defies the laws of government, but they are punished.

Indian Life Member: Today it's a matter of greatest coincidence. Yesterday got up early in the morning to go for a walk. I thought of Hare Rama, Hare Krsna, then I met you today. [laughs] Of course, I have no... Myself and my wife are Life Members. We come sometimes, but morning chanting for me, rather, it didn't happen. Today it happened and I met you today.

Prabhupada: Thank you very much. Hare Krsna.

Passerby: Hare Krsna.

Prabhupada: Jaya.

Mr. Ramrao: I am one of your Life Members. [laughter] Hare Krsna.

Harikesa: I think they're everywhere. [laughter]

Indian Life Member: This is Mr. Rajarao, advocate. I am also advocate. You understand?

Mr. Ramrao: Ramrao, T. Ramrao.

Indian Life Member: I am the earliest Life Member.

Mr. Ramrao: Extremely happy to have your darsana today.

Prabhupada: About birth control. So birth control means the father and mother, the father and mother should not become father and mother unless they take full responsibility for the children to save them from the repetition of birth and death. This is the sastric injunction. Pita na sa syaj janani na sa syat na mocayed yaḥ samupeta-mrtyum [SB 5.5.18].

The, everyone is, in this material world, is going on in the cycle of birth and death, tatha dehantara-praptiḥ [Bg 2.13], transmigrating from one body to another. And after many millions of years he gets the chance of becoming a human being. Now in this life he can stop the birth and death. Punar janma jaya. And that is Vedic culture: how to conquer over this process of repetition, birth and death. That is only possible in the human life. A chance is given, and if he misses this chance then again he'll be cycle... Therefore the father and mother's duty is to train up the children in such a way that this is the last birth. No more birth. Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti [Bg 4.9]. And that training, that is Krsna consciousness.

But the things are different. Both the parents and the children, all of them are going again in the cycle of birth and death and wasting the opportunity of getting a human body. This is modern civilization. They do not know this science. They are kept in darkness. This is so-called education. Mūḍho 'yam nabhijanati mam ebhyaḥ paramam mama [Bg 7.25]. Na te viduḥ svartha-gatim hi... They do not know what is the destination of life. In darkness. There is no education practically. The modern education is how to eat nicely, how to sleep nicely, how to have sex nicely, how to defend nice. And that is the business of the animals. They know how to eat, how to sleep, how to have sex, and how to defend. So the extra intelligence of human being is making a royal edition of eating, sleeping, sex and defense. That's all. What is called? What is called? Deluxe edition. The modern civilization is deluxe edition of animal life. That's all. Animal-deluxe edition. That's all. They do not know what is the aim of life.

So as you are Life Member, you should study our, this philosophy. Life Members, they are given books. And preach this, and save this human... That is the duty. Paropakara. Human life is meant for paropakara. That is Caitanya Mahaprabhu's mission.

Because they are in darkness, all rascals, mūḍha. Nabhijanati. They do not know anything. And they're puffed up by their false education, false knowledge. Ahahkara-vimūḍhatma. "Huh! I have no ambition." Vimūḍhatma. Kartaham iti manyate. They do not know how nature's law is working. Do they not know?

Mr. Ramrao: Since millions of years we are having the births and re-births, both animals and human life and all that. Cycle is going on. So what is the end for this cycle, in the end?

Prabhupada: In the end I have already explained.

Indian man (3): Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. Jaya.

Mr. Ramrao: Dr. Sairaja Swami, retired Samplex officer. Retired state officer. This is Mr. Ghoshbabu. He's from Bengal. He is in high rank.

Prabhupada: Oh. You are Bengali? [Transl. Where are you from?]

Indian man (3): [Transl. From Howrah District.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Howrah District. You are living here since a long time?]

Indian man (3): [Transl. I completed eight years. This is my ninth year.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. What is your profession?]

Indian man (3): [Transl. I work in the Reserve bank.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Oh. Come all of you.]

Indian man (3): [Transl. I often visit.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Come in the evening and we will have some discussion. Hare Krsna.]

Mr. Ramrao: The cycle is going on. That's what you were saying. Cycle, as we see it is going on since millions of years. And it is likely to go on like this.

Prabhupada: No. You can stop it. You are missing the chance because you are not serious about the end of life. You are not disgusted with this repetition of birth and death. That is foolishness. Just like a thief, a criminal. He is constantly put into the jail, but he's not disgusted. He's committing again and again and again. Punaḥ punas carvita-carvananam [SB 7.5.30]. This is going on. This is foolishness. He does not make any provision how to stop it. That is for want of knowledge. This is going on.

Indian Life Member: In olden days...

Prabhupada: They knew it. That is Vedic culture. Because Vedic culture is from the very beginning. The children were given instruction, brahmacari.

Indian Life Member: It is said in some quarters that in olden days because of a lack of so many amenities for our life and all that...

Prabhupada: What is that? What is your ability? Your ability is that you work like an ass and die. That's all. That's your ability. Mūḍha. What is your ability? Can you stop death? Then what is your ability? You'll have to die. So it is false ability. It is struggle only. You try to live, but nature will kill you. This is your ability.

Indian man: He is talking of amenities, there are so many amenities now...

Prabhupada: What is the meaning of this amenities? After all you are going to die. Your all amenities will remain background. That's all.

Indian Life Member: In this short period of life we have more, rather, material progress, I say...

Prabhupada: What you will do with the material progress? Suppose you have got good bank balance, nice house and everything, good society, friendship, relative... But at any moment death will come and kick you out. What you can do? Mrtyuḥ sarva-haras caham [Bg 10.34]. Death will come and will take everything, what you have got. Finished. And he will make you a dog. Now bark. How can you stop it? Prakrteḥ kriyamanani gunaiḥ karmani [Bg 3.27].

You have practiced how to bark in the Legislative Assembly, now go and become a dog and go on barking: yow, yow, yow. This is going on. They do not know what is life, what is the purpose of life. Asatyam apratistham te jagad ahur anisvaram [Bg 16.8]. This is going on. Asatyam. Somebody says, "This is false." Asatyam. Apratistham, "There is no cause. There is no God." And this is going on. Asatyam apratistham te jagad ahur anisvaram. Everything is explained in the Bhagavad-gita. And this Bhagavad-gita is Indian. Of course, it is meant for everyone, but it was spoken in India, and Indians have rejecting. And if somebody takes it, he misinterprets and spoils himself and spoils others. This is going on. Their modern civilization is trying to mitigate miseries of life. And Bhagavad-gita proposes that first of all try to understand what is your misery of life. Do you know what is the misery of life? Huh? What is the miseries of life?

Indian Life Member: Misery of life is to be like this only. To live like this, without the divine knowledge or without...

Prabhupada: Yes. Miseries of life, real miseries of life that you are soul, eternal. Na jayate na mriyate va. There is no birth; there is no death. So therefore the birth and death is real misery. Janma-mrtyu-jara-vyadhi-duḥkha-dosanudarsanam [Bg 13.9]. This is knowledge. But they have no brain. It is clearly said that na jayate na mriyate va. But these rascals never think, "Why I am getting birth? Why I am dying?" So rascal. It is clearly said, na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg 2.20]. Where is that education? They do not know what is misery. And they are trying, struggling to get out of misery. But they have no knowledge what is the actual misery. And therefore Krsna pointing out, janma-mrtyu-jara-vyadhi-duḥkha-dosanudarsanam. This is knowledge. Simply wasting time. They do not know what is the problem of life and how to solve it. They have no education. [aside:] So which way? Which way?

Mahamsa: Either we can go a little longer and come back, or we can go this way.

Harikesa: The car is here if you want to go.

Prabhupada: So, come on. Let us talk.

[break] ...problem of life. But they do not care for it. Nobody is serious about this point, that we learn that I am aham brahmasmi, "I am spirit soul," and na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg 2.20], "I am not finished after finishing this body." Who is caring? Then what is my position? Any gentleman, suppose we have given notice that you have to vacate this house, this apartment. Your term is finished. So he finds out another house. But what these rascals are doing? They are so foolish. The notice is there, that any moment you'll be kicked out, and where you are going? Where to stay? And they are intelligent. And they're intelligent. They are struggling for existence, but who will allow you to exist? That these small brain cannot think. Who will allow you to exist? But they foolishly say "Struggle for existence," "Survival of the fittest." Who is fit? He does not know.

Indian Life Member: Survival of the fittest theory may be applicable in our spheres because fit means...

Prabhupada: Fittest means who does not get next a material body. He is fit. He is fit. Because as soon as you get a material body...

They are mad, working day and night. Pramatta. And acting just adverse to his interest. So Rsabhadeva says this is not good. He should know that he has already got a body for which he is suffering. Pitar yantra.[?] And again he is creating another body. By his karma he is creating another body. So as soon as you get a material body you'll have to suffer. Either you become a king or a dog, because you have got this material body you have to suffer. Pitar yantra. So asann api klesada asa dehaḥ [SB 5.5.4]. This body will not exist. But still so long you'll exist in this body, you'll suffer. But they have no brain how to solve this, although there is solution. Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti [Bg 4.9].

So paropakara. So as you have become our Life Member, try to broadcast the philosophy of Bhagavad-gita. That is the meaning of membership. Everything is there. We have got so many books. At least, thoroughly study Bhagavad-gita As It Is. Yes. Understand the philosophy of life. Apply in your own life and try to spread among friends. In your Bar library you talk so many things. Why not talk about this? Yes. [laughter] Paropakara. That is paropakara. Everyone is in darkness. Durasaya ye bahir-artha-maninaḥ. Na te viduḥ svartha-gatim hi visnum [SB 7.5.31]. They do not know the goal of life. Simply by some false hope they are accepting this material thing, material life, as everything. Durasaya bahir-artha-maninaḥ. External energy. This is the problem. Making plans to solve. No plan will solve this problem.

Indian Life Member: Then all of us say when the day comes that when all of us can conquer death.

Prabhupada: Oh, yes.

Indian Life Member: Then that means in that case no rebirth.

Prabhupada: Rebirth means that... You are eternal. So by karma you are put into this material world. So it is struggle. Just like a fish, somehow or other taken from the water and put onto the land, so he's all life struggling. So he has to be put again in the water. Then his life is perfect.

Indian Life Member: It is back to Godhead.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Mr. Ramrao: What is the mystery in that case of universe or divine bringing up this life?

Prabhupada: Bringing up this life? What is the mystery to bringing one to the criminal court? What is the mystery?

Indian Life Member: Karma.

Mr. Ramrao: But we must be some start somewhere. Is it not so?

Prabhupada: Start means..., just like what is the starting point of a criminal? He wants to violate the laws and starting, criminal. You can stop it immediately and you can start immediately. It depends on you. If you violate the law, you become criminal. If you don't violate, remain in your own position. This is the start. As soon as you defy God and you try to become independent, then the starting is there immediately. And again when you surrender, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam [Bg 18.66], then you stop. So stopping and starting is in your hand. That is karma. It is not that starting is done by somebody else. You start your business. And you stop it also. [break]

Mr. Ramrao: No, but just in the beginning when the universe started...

Prabhupada: This is the beginning. That beginning is always there. Just like you are a gentleman. You can become immediately criminal. This is in your hand. So you cannot find out the history, because at any moment you can start.

Indian man: If the soul was once a gentleman...

Prabhupada: Soul is eternal.

Indian man: Ah. This who took the birth of this human being or animal was a gentleman.

Prabhupada: Yes. He is gentleman by nature. But criminal by artificial means. [laughter] As soon as...

Indian man (2): Prabhuji, if you attain moksa is that eternal, or just temporary and then until becomes lost, and then...

Prabhupada: Moksa, there are two kinds of moksa. One, generally, they like that, to remain in impersonal Brahman.

Indian man (2): For a limited period.

Prabhupada: Limited period, no. Because he cannot remain there. Just like if you go in the sky you cannot remain in the sky. If you don't get any shelter you have to come again. They are going to..., trying to go to the other planets, but because they cannot, they come back again. Similarly, you are living entity, you want enjoyment. So what enjoyment you will have in the sky? You require society, friends, love, everything. So these impersonalists, their moksa is temporary because they think, "By merging into the impersonal Brahman I shall be happy." But that he cannot. Aruhya krcchrena param padam tataḥ patanty adhaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. Although they go to the impersonal Brahman, but there is no ananda. The living entity is seeking after ananda-mayo 'bhyasat. By nature he is seeking ananda. So you do not get any ananda.

Indian man (2): Is that merger itself not ananda?

Prabhupada: No ananda. It is eternity, but no ananda. So eternally how you can remain without ananda? So you have to come back again. Because here there is something ananda, although it is temporary. So unless you go to God and dance with Him, you'll have to back, come again. So impersonalists, they cannot reconcile how God can be personal. Because you have got very bad experience of personal here, they think God is also a similar person. Avajananti mam mūḍha manusim tanum asritam [Bg 9.11]. He thinks, "God is also a human being like me." Avajananti. Mūḍhaḥ. They are mūḍhas. They are not intelligent.

Indian man: But what is the stage at which it is atma gets merged with Paramatma? If atma would get merged with Paramatma, then...

Prabhupada: That I have already explained. You cannot merge. You simply imagine. Merging means you merge in the spiritual atmosphere. But without ananda you cannot stay there; therefore you have to come back again to this material world. Suppose you are advocate and you are given some place without any practice. How long you will you remain there? If I say, "Please remain here happily without any practice," how long you'll remain? We want some activities. That is our nature, for ananda. But here we are trying to get that ananda, but that is temporary. That is not satisfying us. Therefore being disgusted, we want to stop it and merge. But there is also temporary. Unless you go back to home, back to Godhead, there is no complete life. Therefore Krsna comes and shows by His spiritual activities. He's playing with the boys, He's dancing with the girls, He's killing the demons, and so many activities. This is ananda. Sac-cid-ananda-vigrahaḥ [Bs 5.1]. They are all spiritual. You have read our Krsna book?

Indian men: Hmm.

Prabhupada: Yes. There is everything. So as far as possible we are trying to give people the real knowledge from the sastra. Now it is up to them to accept or take advantage of it.

Indian man: And practice.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Indian man: Will Swamiji discourse this evening?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Mr. Ramrao: You are doing greatest service to the humanity throughout the world.

Prabhupada: At least, I am trying. But it is very difficult. We have to spoil hundreds of gallons' blood before one comes to the point. It is very simple thing. Only our leaders of the society, they are sleeping. They are misguided themselves and misguiding others. That is the difficulty.

Mr. Ramrao: Swamiji, here is another advocate

Prabhupada: Now be advocate of Krsna. [laughter] Yes. Janma sarthaka kari' kara paropakara.

Indian man: How long you are going to be in Hyderabad, sir?

Prabhupada: I am going day after tomorrow.

Indian man: To?

Prabhupada: I'm going to Delhi.

Mr. Ramrao: Most of your time you are in the States.

Prabhupada: Yes. Just now I am coming from Europe. States, Europe, then here.

Indian man: What is the method of attaining permanent ananda Svamiji? Permanent ananda?

Prabhupada: That is spiritual life. When you are not enwrapped with this material body, then is ananda.

Indian man: But that life itself is temporary and then...

Prabhupada: No, that is not temporary. That is permanent. That is to stay with God. That is permanent.

Indian man: But you will do so only so long as you are in your body, is it not? After you leave the body then you..., probably you might attain moksa for a temporary period.

Prabhupada: No. That is impersonalism. And those who actually go to Godhead, they remain in their spiritual body.

Indian man: Between meditation and kirtana, which is the easier and...

Prabhupada: Kirtana.

Indian man: Kirtana is the best.

Prabhupada: Yes. Meditation means you'll think of your business and all sleep, snoring. That is meditation. [laughter] [end]