Morning Walk – August 14, 1976, Bombay

That no acarya has mentioned

[on roof of apartment. Srila Prabhupada was not feeling strong enough to walk]

Gopala Krsna: ...decide where your apartment will be.

Prabhupada: That roof is the fifth story?

Gopala Krsna: Sixth.

Prabhupada: Sixth. So we are finishing fifth only?

Gopala Krsna: We are finished, will be six stories. Pardon?

Prabhupada: Only fifth, up floors?

Gopala Krsna: Yes, you can't go more than that. This is near the airport. Now they've introduced a new law that you can't go even below this. What we did is the new law has just come into effect, and so we did the slabs in the night.

Prabhupada: Huh?

Gopala Krsna: There's a new law which reduces the height even further. You can't have any big buildings in Bombay now.

Prabhupada: Why?

Gopala Krsna: I don't know the reason, but apparently it's Indira Gandhi doesn't like big buildings. So actually, according to the new law we have already built more than what the legal limit is. So what we did...

Prabhupada: No, we have got some assetship for the road? We have left over? Where is Saurabha?

Gopala Krsna: Saurabha is in the front. Shall I call him?

Prabhupada: Yes.

[break] ...quite nice place for walking. Why it is drying? The leaf? [break]

Gopala Krsna: People are coming just to see the building now.

Prabhupada: Accha?

Gopala Krsna: When it is built it will be, I think, just like Vrndavana. Many people think that the temple is these two towers. They think that the actual temple are these towers.

Prabhupada: Yes, this is included in the... [break]

Gopala Krsna: ...watch the drama tonight also? They're going to have a drama also.

Prabhupada: Yes. [break]

Gopala Krsna: This machine? It's a water cooler. Someone donated it to us about two, three years ago.

Prabhupada: It acts?

Gopala Krsna: Yes.

Hari-sauri: That's where we get all the drinking water from.

Gopala Krsna: Cold water from. We put boiled water into it. Bring boiled water from the kitchen.

Prabhupada: We have no tap water here?

Gopala Krsna: We have tap water, but it's not drinking water. I mean, it needs to be boiled. In Delhi you can drink the tap water-they say it's okay-but in Bombay it's very risky to drink tap water. Especially in monsoon.

[break] ...famous actress and singer called Sulakshana Pandit. She's one of our devotee's sister-in-law also. She has some devotion. So she is coming to sing bhajanas tomorrow in the panḍal. Is that okay? She's very famous.

Prabhupada: Yes, yes.

Gopala Krsna: It's okay.

Prabhupada: Before Deity one can do. Before Deity one can show devotional activities, but not otherwise. Otherwise it will be sense enjoyment.

Gopala Krsna: In Vrndavana once you told me not to have the rasa-lila by these professionals also.

Prabhupada: No, before Deity, everything.

Gopala Krsna: They can do it.

Prabhupada: [counting floors] One, two, three, four, five, six? No?

Gopala Krsna: It's five. Including the ground floor it comes to six.

Harikesa: One, two, three, four, five, six. From the ground floor it's twice as high.

Gopala Krsna: Yes. [all chant japa] [break]

Prabhupada: We are..., some space is due to us on account of giving up the road?

Saurabha: That is already calculated. That is given to us already.

Prabhupada: Given?

Saurabha: F.S.I. [Floor Space Index]

Prabhupada: F.S.I.

Saurabha: That we have already. We have used that in that building. We have used it in the building that is coming up here.

Prabhupada: Oh. It is already. You have submitted the plan?

Saurabha: Yes.

Prabhupada: They have sanctioned?

Saurabha: No.

Gopala Krsna: It will take about a month to endorse it.

Saurabha: About a month.

Prabhupada: Hmm.

[break] ...such a nice walking, this route.

Acyutananda: Good air.

Prabhupada: Oh, yes.

Acyutananda: We're invited to do kirtana to inaugurate a Bhagavata-saptaha: weeklong Bhagavata recitation, and the Dvaraka Sahkaracarya will be present.

Prabhupada: Where?

Acyutananda: It's Sumati Morarji's...

Prabhupada: Place?

Acyutananda: I don't know what the place is.

Gopala Krsna: It's somewhere in Borivali, but she's sponsoring or she's associated with it.

Acyutananda: It's probably a Vallabha panḍita.

Prabhupada: No, no, we have no objection with Vallabha.

Acyutananda: They're sending two cars.

Prabhupada: Oh. When?

Acyutananda: This morning. So I wanted to invite him to come and see the temple...

Prabhupada: Yes.

Acyutananda: ...and Your Divine Grace...

Prabhupada: About that Vallabhacarya, she wrote me letter. I've replied it. I replied it.

Acyutananda: Yes, Giriraja told me. I never mention those...

Prabhupada: No, don't mention it.

Acyutananda: Because they don't listen. Their history is that Vallabhacarya had the dream and discovered Govardhana and Sri Nathaji, Gopala Deity, and there was no Madhavendra Puri.

Prabhupada: Accha? But in the court it has been established. One lawyer in Delhi, he told me that this Deity belongs to the Gauḍiya-sampradaya. In the court it has...

Acyutananda: How did it come to them?

Prabhupada: That Madhavendra Puri or somebody delivered to Vallabhacarya. Madhavendra Puri is not possible; somebody else.

[break] Dvaraka Sahkaracarya, he's a Mayavadi, and he'll give Bhagavata?

Acyutananda: No, he's just going to give blessings to the... He's presiding, I guess. [break]

Prabhupada: That is also complete like this?

Saurabha: Yes. The other side we are making one special room for you on the roof. So...

Prabhupada: One special room like this? No.

Saurabha: That is the lift room. But next to that, the similar room, the same size. It is not done. Because that we have to do later on. We're not allowed to do that now. There's a new law passed in Bombay that no one can build higher than six stories, nowhere in Bombay. So we had to rush for this; otherwise they would have stopped us.

Prabhupada: So why you are not rushing?

Saurabha: Excuse me?

Prabhupada: Why you are not rushing?

Saurabha: No, this is finished. We have reached the highest. That point is the highest. It's only for the slab. Afterwards, they don't mind. [break]

Prabhupada: ...from this light.

Hari-sauri: The switch is just in front of Prabhupada's door.

Prabhupada: There was a seat? Where it gone, that seat?

Hari-sauri: They probably took it in because of the rain. [break]

Prabhupada: ...rainy season, these leaves should have been very green, but it is not green. Huh?

Saurabha: It's also the sea wind that kills a lot of trees. Not so much here, but if one goes down to the sea, all trees, they have no leaves. There's some type of salt or something in the air that destroys plants. Here it's all right, but close to the sea it's all... That must affect them.

[break]

Prabhupada: ...saptaha, it is not authorized.

Acyutananda: No. But in some editions of Bhagavatam they have a Bhagavata-mahatmyam, and there's a story about bhakti and jnana and vairagya and Narada Muni.

Prabhupada: That no acarya has mentioned.

Harikesa: That's Gita Press again. That's Gita Press.

Acyutananda: They say how this is the instructions for how Bhagavata should be read in seven days up to this canto.

Prabhupada: Gita Press was Mayavadi. [break] Who is that man?

Gopala Krsna: This lady? That man there? He's our accountant, Mr. Krishna. He lives with us full time. He's doing very good service.

Basu Ghosh: About two months ago in Hyderabad they had a very big Bhagavata-saptaha. One thousand and eight brahmanas chanting Bhagavatam for seven days, and it was presided over by a big Vaisnava sannyasi, Ramanuja-sampradaya. And all the local Marwaris, they gave lakhs of rupees for prasadam and so many things.

Gopala Krsna: They hurt our collection, I think.

Basu Ghosh: No, they haven't given anything to our temple, but for this. The same people, some of them, most of them refused even to become members. One man who refused me to become a member, he gave fifty thousand rupees for prasadam.

Prabhupada: Why they refused us, or help us?

Hari-sauri: He's talking about some Bhagavata-saptaha they had there.

Prabhupada: Because it is...

Acyutananda: They are the "Hindus." We are the foreigners.

Yasomatinandana: But they don't go too long, because in Ahmedabad they have started one Gujarat...., one Bhagavata-vidya-pitha. Just outside Ahmedabad. And he had a plan to build a whole huge temple and dharmasalas and schools, gurukulas. That Krishna Shankara Shastri, that poor fellow, he started something, and now he has scarcity; he cannot find funds to finish his project. So the project is lying idle for almost two years. They collected sixty, seventy lakhs initially, but then...

Prabhupada: Sixty, seventy lakhs? And he squandered it?

Yasomatinandana: No. He has got land and he has got some buildings, but now he has no funds to go further. And there also no local people give. It's all he collected in London and Africa from the Gujaratis. [break] ...in becoming trustees and managing the things, but they will not give any money.

Prabhupada: So bring some sitting place.

Basu Ghosh: Every brahmana got 116 rupees, and they brought him a cadara and they paid for prasadam. Lakhs of people came from all over central India, Andhra Pradesh, thousands and thousands. They paid for prasadam. Whole panḍal, huge panḍal, they went to this exhibition ground. And then they gave..., the rest of the money went to the Ramanuja Swami.

Acyutananda: Oh, that was the yajna.

Basu Ghosh: Jeeyar Swami. Sriman Narayana Jeeyar.

Acyutananda: That's not a Bhagavata-saptaha.

Basu Ghosh: Yes, Sahasra-Bhagavata. They had one thousand...

Gopala Krsna: Is that Dongre Maharaja?

Yasomatinandana: That Dongre is very famous in Gujarat, so now he has mostly become famous all over India.

Gopala Krsna: But they are booking thirty rooms in our guesthouse for ten days for the program.

Acyutananda: You've got new japa beads, Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: Yes. From tulasi. It was made in Honolulu. In Honolulu tulasi plants are very luxurious. Hyderabad local people, they are not sympathetic with our temple? Huh? Not sympathetic?

Acyutananda: But when their caste guru comes they may come out, because that's a big thing. Narayana Jeeyar, Ramanuja-sampradaya, so the Ramanujas have to pay their respects to their own acarya. The temple is being built. And the location of Hyderabad is such that there are so many guesthouses, because it's near the station, Nampally Station. There are many guesthouses. So from all over India people who stop in Hyderabad, they come to the temple. So from all over Andhra we got invitations from people who had come to the temple. [indistinct-plane going over]

Prabhupada: Guesthouse?

Acyutananda: There's the Vrndavana Hotel, and that Ashoka?

Basu Ghosh: Annapurna...

Acyutananda: Annapurna Hotel. So many guesthouses.

Prabhupada: They visit our temple?

Basu Ghosh: All those brahmanas that came for the yajna, and everybody, after the yajna ended at about six-thirty, they immediately came to the temple, our temple, afterwards. Everybody knew. We distributed thousands of books there. It was very good book distribution. We sold in one day, you know, we were selling two thousand rupees a day worth of books. Everybody that came there was very pious.

Prabhupada: We took advantage.

Basu Ghosh: Oh, yes.

Prabhupada: Unless one is pious, how he can...

Basu Ghosh: Yes, we went there every day and we had all day book distribution and kirtana. Actually some of the Marwaris were good friends of ours, so we wanted to get... They announced that we were there and we were selling books over the loudspeaker system. Very good. They gave us..., we had a good place for book distribution.

Gopala Krsna: In Bombay also Sumati Morarji had a big program in her house recently. There were huge crowds, and our devotees went there to distribute books afterwards.

Yasomatinandana: They didn't like it, though. Dhvaja, dhvaja came, the flag from Sri Nathaji, has come to her house.

Prabhupada: What is the idea, dhvaja? Due to her influence people came. Not for the dhvaja. She is influential, and something is being done, everyone knows that.

Acyutananda: In Bangalore we went to another Ramanuja sannyasi's asrama, and he invited us to see an initiation, and they burned the sahkha-cakra on the shoulders, by fire-branded.

Harikesa: What that means?

Acyutananda: Because they're initiated.

Gopala Krsna: Oh, they put...

Prabhupada: [Transl. Give him a seat or something.]

Dr. Patel: It's all right for me.

Prabhupada: [Transl. Your health is all right?]

Dr. Patel: [Transl. How are you?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. The same.]

Dr. Patel: [Transl. Let the doctors warm their hands, no?] [Laughs]

Prabhupada: Nivrtta-tarsair upagiyamanad bhavausadhac chrotra-mano-'bhiramat. Bhavausadhi [SB 10.1.4]. [Transl. Bhavausadhi. This harinama is bhavausadhi: [remedy for material disease.]]

Dr. Patel: Highest medicine.

Prabhupada: Bhavausadhac chrotra-mano-'bhiramat. And it is very pleasing to the ear and the heart. Mana, srotra. Srotra means...

Dr. Patel: Ears and mind.

Prabhupada: Ears and mind. Nivrtta-tarsair upagiyamanat. This chanting is properly done by a person who has fully satisfied his material desires. Satiated: no more. Nivrtta-tarsaiḥ. Trsna. Nivrtta. No more material desire. Nivrtta-tarsair upagiyamanad bhavausadhi [SB 10.1.4], and it is the medicine for this bhava-roga. Bhava, punar bhava. Once take your birth, then die, then punar bhava. So this is bhava-roga. [Transl. Little bit… No, no sit down.] Nivrtta-tarsair upagiyamanat. [aside:] Just spread it here. According to Vedic system, if one has no sitting place, he can offer a straw.

Dr. Patel: That is the greatest sitting place.

Prabhupada: They should offer a straw, "Sir, I have no sitting place, kindly accept this straw." And one glass of water. This should be offered to any guest. This is Vedic system. Everyone should be received properly, even if he's enemy. Grham satrum api praptam visvastam akutobhayam. So,

Except pasughna, nobody can be aloof from this chanting of Hare Krsna mantra. It is bhavausadhi. This is good place for walking also.

Dr. Patel: Yes. Shall we call that [indistinct] Pandit Ayur-Veda acarya of India for you? If you don't believe in our medicine?

Prabhupada: No, no. [laughs]

Dr. Patel: What do you say? After all, this is our...

Prabhupada: No, medicine is...

Dr. Patel: No, what I mean to say, that ksetra and ksetrajna are depend on each other. If there is no ksetra, there will be no ksetrajna to stay.

Prabhupada: No, no.

Dr. Patel: So you have got to look after that ksetra, or what the ksetrajna will be happy there to live there? I think I am not wrong.

Prabhupada: No, you are right. Ksetra is changeable. Ksetrajna is permanent.

Dr. Patel: Permanent, but changing ksetra may be kept till the ksetrajna is there, presiding over it. [Transl. Am I right?] I think you agree.

Prabhupada: No. However you may try, antavanta ime dehaḥ [Bg 2.18].

Dr. Patel: Antavanta ime dehaḥ, that is right, but the anta may not be got too quickly.

Prabhupada: No, it is not.

Yasomatinandana: What is this, may be Doctor-saheb knows, basaka leaves?

Prabhupada: Doctor-saheb.

Dr. Patel: Basaka is meant for only cough.

Indian man: Syrup basaka.

Prabhupada: Basaka leaves have you got?

Dr. Patel: Basaka is Ayur-vedic, very good medicine.

Yasomatinandana: Where can I get some?

Dr. Patel: You can grow them here in this garden.

Prabhupada: Yes, it is very easy.

Yasomatinandana: Where can I buy it?

Dr. Patel: You can buy it from the market, syrup-basaka. Syrup, it is in the form of paste. Leaves are also paste. You have to make a decoction out of it. Vasaka is recognized by the Western medicine also. Americans are importing it.

Prabhupada: It was introduced by Dr. Bose.

Dr. Patel: Bose, yes.

Prabhupada: He introduced so many Indian drugs in the...

Dr. Patel: These two, some half a dozen herbs, are extremely wonderful. They have in Bengal, this Standard Pharmaceuticals of Bengal, been able to isolate penicillin from cow dung, and they have a big plant in Calcutta producing penicillin from cow dung. It's stated, you know, how cow dung was considered sacred. Perhaps we did not know that, but by experience.

Prabhupada: Before this, one Monmohan Ghosh, Dr. Monmohan Ghosh, he was pathologist in medical college. He proved the antiseptic properties of gobara. He was Dr. Gosh's friend. So he was working in his laboratory also. I know. Long ago.

Dr. Patel: And in gomūtra, sir, there are so many hormones coming out, and a big sample of hormones which can be resynthesized as human hormones. That is why gomūtra is being drunk.

Prabhupada: Gomūtra is good medicine for liver disease.

Dr. Patel: Accha?

Prabhupada: If you drink urine of...

Dr. Patel: Yes, it is proved scientifically so many hormones and by-products of hormones which can be resynthesized into human hormones, [indistinct] modern science.

Indian man: [Transl. Prabhupada, we used to drink cow urine previously. When a mother gave birth to a child then on the sixth day the child was fed a spoon of cow urine.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Lord Krsna was given.]

Dr. Patel: That's right. Gomūtra is considered sacred by we people that we put a drop in the newly born child's mouth.

Prabhupada: Panca-gavya, gomūtra is one of the parts. Panca-gavya.

Dr. Patel: Milk and honey. Five ingredients, gomūtra is one of the five things. Honey, milk...

Prabhupada: No, that is panca-amrta. Panca-gavya a little different. Gobara, urine, then milk, then yogurt, then ghee. This is panca-gavya: pertaining to the cow. And that honey, that is panca-amrta.

Dr. Patel: Sir, I have a question. Can I ask it?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Dr. Patel: Now then, Arjuna with all his lamentation was so advised that he should fight out. So in that case, I mean we all consider he was right to follow Krsna advice. Then if a man is overtaken by disease, and if he fights out that...

Prabhupada: No, no, I don't say that, that he should not fight. It is my personal. Not that one should not take care of the body or one should not eat medicine. That is not. I like this; let me do without medicine. That is my personal. It is...

Dr. Patel: What is medicine? Any herb is a medicine. Even food is a medicine.

Prabhupada: Whatever it may be, I don't decry medicine. That is not my business.

Dr. Patel: No, no, I don't say decry. But you don't want to take advantage of medicine.

Prabhupada: Medicine... Just like a type of vairagya, sometimes they do not eat. That does not mean eating is forbidden. It is not. It is my personal. I am trying to avoid, that's all. There was a big friend of W. C. Bannerji. You have heard the name of W. C. Bannerji? He was one of the three inaugurators of Congress in the beginning. No, that Bannerji, Surendranatha Bannerji, he came later. Almost contemporary. But the Congress was started by, I think, yes, W. C. Bannerji. W. C. Bannerji was a big barrister. So he had his friends, contemporary. So he was also brahmana. So when... He was taking daily his bath in the Ganges, and if he was diseased, he was drinking Ganges water. So he became seriously sick. So this W. C. Bannerji, he was a big man. So he asked his permission to bring some doctor. "You'll die in this way." So he persisted, "No, I shall simply drink this Ganges water." So it is not that medical science is in defeated position.

Dr. Patel: He just died.

Prabhupada: Yes. [break] Brahmacaryena. Tapasya, one of the items is anahara. Anahara: as far as possible not to eat. That is one of the items of tapasya.

Basu Ghosh: You know this Acharya Vinoba Bhave, he's going on a fast until death starting in September to end cow slaughter in India.

[background discussion]

Prabhupada: Whole Europe, there is no cloud, no rain.

Dr. Patel: There's lot of rain here.

Prabhupada: Fortunate, vrsti. Still India fortunate. I'm coming from London, Paris and Tehran. All fields yellow. And Europe, so much scorching heat and sunshine, I never seen. Especially in London. This time I saw everything has become yellow, the greenness gone.

Dr. Patel: The non-monsoon countries can produce more food than the monsoon countries. The monsoon comes only three months in a year. Those people get rain all year 'round, they can grow better crops. This is how so many parts of North America and Europe, they can have sufficient crops all the year. We can't have it here.

Prabhupada: No, there is scarcity of fodder also. They are killing the animal premature. They cannot feed it. It has come to this point.

Dr. Patel: Bernard Shaw say in favor of vegetarianism.

Prabhupada: Yes. They are vegetarian.

Dr. Patel: We are fools raising fodder and this thing and again raising animals on that and feeding on that. Why can't we directly feed on poor animals? I think the human race will survive more that way than by eating animals, but economically it is more sound.

Prabhupada: Certainly. In the Bhagavad-gita it is recommended, annad bhavanti bhūtani [Bg 3.14]. Krsna never said mamsad bhavanti bhūtani. Krsna never said. This is artificial. In the lower stage of human civilization, when they cannot produce food, they do not know how to do it, so the animals are killed. What can they do? But actual food is anna, food grain. Even for the animals. Annad bhavanti bhūtani. Yajnad bhavati bhū... So there is no yajna. There is no yajna. So this sahkirtana-yajna is the only yajna in Kali-yuga. So if they perform, everything is all right. There will be cloud, there will be rain.

Dr. Patel: Yajna karma samudbhava, sir.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Dr. Patel: It is niskama-karma [selfless action].

Prabhupada: Yajna, in this... Yajnaiḥ sahkirtana-prayair yajanti hi su-medhasaḥ [SB 11.5.32]. In the Kali-yuga, the other yajnas are not possible. First of all, there is no yajnika-brahmana and paraphernalia-so many things. Perhaps if we perform yajna and pour ghee on it, immediately government arrest.

Dr. Patel: There is not enough ghee.

Prabhupada: Ghee can be produced immense. I have studied. Immensely you can produce, by keeping cows. Krsna has recommended go-raksya. Krsi-go-raksya. The go-raksya is essential. It is not that animal slaughter stopping. No. Krsna could have said pasu-raksya. No, Krsna has not said. Go-raksya. Those who are animal eaters, they can indulge in eating other insignificant animals.

Dr. Patel: I think, sir, go-raksya must be the backbone of the economy.

Prabhupada: No, health, brain, everything. Milk is miracle food. And we are practically experiencing in our farms that if the cows are protected nicely, they can supply immense milk. We are getting in our farms, extra milk. Everyone is eating so many preparations-sandesa, rasagulla, rabri. They are surprised. In their history they have not eaten all these things.

Dr. Patel: They are eating the milk-producing animal, so milk will not...

Prabhupada: No, they advertise milk is bad.

Dr. Patel: Who?

Prabhupada: These Europeans, Americans.

Dr. Patel: Really?

Prabhupada: Yes. "Don't eat milk." Do they not? And they cannot drink also. In Bengal there is a proverb, kukurera pete ghi hajam haya na. If you supply preparation made of ghee to the dog, he cannot digest it.

Dr. Patel: [Kuttako ghee khilao to ulti ho jayega. [If you feed a dog ghee, it will vomit-Hindi proverb.]

Prabhupada: Hah! They cannot digest factually. They get..., what is called? That disease?

Harikesa: Jaundice.

Prabhupada: Jaundice. They cannot eat much milk product.

Dr. Patel: Yes, sir. Cow is the biggest factory to produce protein, first-class proteins for human beings. Instead of taking the advantage of the products of the factory, they eat out the factory itself. [Transl. Huge slaughterhouses are being maintained in the western countries.]

Prabhupada: So we see practically in our farm the cows give more milk than other farms.

Dr. Patel: The satisfaction of the animal.

Prabhupada: They are very satisfied. [to devotee: You have been in New Vrindavan with me? No, you were not. So the cows are so happy that... Just like in India. They are walking here and there.

Dr. Patel: They don't do anything. Now they have, they have [Transl. Near my place there is a college of agriculture], brought some crossing, and each cow, Jersey cows and Indian cows, they have crossed, and they are producing more than thirty liters of milk every day. Thirty, forty liters

Prabhupada: One liter means?

Indian man: Two pounds, one ounce

Dr. Patel: Two pounds.

Prabhupada: So we have got cows, they are supplying more than hundred pounds.

Indian man: This cost is three thousand rupees, one cow. Three, four thousand. Pure cows five thousand rupees. [Transl. Near Ahmadabad there is a place called Anand. Anand.]

Dr. Patel: [Transl. That is my place.]

Indian man: [Transl. They do cross breeding. For such calf the cost is two thousand rupees and pure cows five thousand rupees.]

Dr. Patel: They have brought some Holland bulls and Jersey cows and then Indian bulls, and brought some genetic researchers brought out a new hybrid.

Indian man: It is very good cow, very good. Very beautiful cows. Giving thirty to forty liters per day.

Hari-sauri: Those cows we have in the Pennsylvania farm, the two best ones, they're the two best pedigree cows in the whole of America. They have their pedigree traced back two hundred and fifty years to when the first cows came to America. Purebreds.

Prabhupada: In our Philadelphia farm we are selling fifteen hundred dollars' extra milk. Fifteen hundred dollars per month. So if cow is properly protected, it can supply immense milk.

Dr. Patel: It was Mr. Nehru, he said that we cannot prohibit cow slaughter. Therefore he made so many wrong things.

[break] [Transl. He did most of the wrong things.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. …yesterday China-India. Who knows where will be next birth?]

Dr. Patel: We don't know.

Prabhupada: This is maya. We are...

Dr. Patel: We are trying to end rebirths by krsna-bhakti, and so there is no question of rebirth if we do it sincerely, and it is for the parama-bhakta...

Prabhupada: Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti... [Bg 4.9].

Dr. Patel: Mam eti so'rjuna.

Prabhupada: That is perfect. Samsiddhim paramam gataḥ. That is the highest. Why these people, our own people, in spite of possessing Bhagavad-gita, we are so rascals, we are not taking that?

Dr. Patel: I think the degeneration of this country are from the foreign people, foreign domination.

Prabhupada: Yes. No, it was their propaganda, Macaulay's, that "If you keep Indians as Indians, you'll never be able to rule over them." So British policy was to make propaganda so that "Everything Indian is bad."

Dr. Patel: I think Max Mueller [indistinct].

Prabhupada: No, it was necessary for them to Anglicize the Indians to rule over them.

Dr. Patel: Our differential, or [Transl. "atithi devo bhava: [A guest is as good as God]," has created all this rot.

Prabhupada: It is not our; it is human society's.

Dr. Patel: [Transl. But atithi devo bhava, we allowed everyone to be deva here.] If public corporation, trading company, becomes the ruler of this country, I don't understand how it could be.

Prabhupada: Because we have no..., that catur-varna system. Catur-varnyam maya srstam guna-karma-vibhagasaḥ [Bg 4.13]. You have given up Krsna's instruction, now you have to suffer. You do not train brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya, sūdra. So anyone who is in power, he is good. That is Kali-yuga. Kali-yuga means anyone gets vote, he's in power. They can misuse the power. That there is no ksatriya.

Dr. Patel: I think that is a wrong system, sir. This so-called democracy is not ours. Consensus... If by consensus...

Prabhupada: No, no. Now, either democracy or monarchy, the population is sūdra. So either you make it democracy or any "cracy," sūdra will be on the power. So they can...

Dr. Patel: In Kali-yuga, sir, the sūdras will rule according to the...

Prabhupada: Everyone is sūdra. Kalau sūdra-sambhavaḥ. Who is going to become brahmana? We are inviting everyone, "Come here, become brahmana." Who is interested? He'll go to the factory. Instead of becoming brahmana he'll be hammer man. [Transl. They have to die starving.] In America no students are coming to the philosophical class or higher mathematics class.

Dr. Patel: No mathematics?

Prabhupada: No. Higher studies, nobody comes. Only technology. The higher class, higher studies class, they are being closed. The professors are getting no job. We have a friend, Dr. Henderson, he is a doctor in higher mathematics, he is not getting job. No students. Nobody is interested in higher... Similarly, many other things, and literature.

Dr. Patel: Here also the same thing. Nobody takes. And Sanskrit practically nil.

Prabhupada: And philosophy class, closed. Here I think also. Nobody... They think, "What is the use of speculation?"

Indian man: At Kuruksetra, one Sanskrit university they are planning.

Prabhupada: Vedic university. So that is our plan. We have asked government to give us land.

Basu Ghosh: They had a big article in the Times of India about it.

Prabhupada: Provided government gives us land.

[break] ...in Bombay.

Dr. Patel: [Transl. Not better than beach. I said it is not better than sea beach.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Sea?]

Indian man: [Transl. He says that it is not better than sea.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Sea is not far from here. Two blocks away. Breeze is coming.]

Dr. Patel: [Transl. We have to build…]

Prabhupada: No, palm trees, within the palm trees, such buildings will not have this advantage. I think in this quarter our this land is the best. This Juhu and Vile Parle Scheme, this land is the best. Twenty-thousand square yards full of palm trees, and we have made this garden.

This advantage is not available by everyone. They divided the property, this side five lakhs and the vacant side nine lakhs. Fourteen lakhs. So anyway, we took both the sides. Taking this side, five lakhs, now this one building is worth five lakhs. There are six buildings. Very high. And we have got six buildings.

Dr. Patel: I put up a foundation of my new house here, it has cost me only foundation up to the plinth sixty thousand. Only twenty-one square feet. Twenty-one hundred square feet. Foundation has cost me five lakhs.

Prabhupada: No, it is very costly. [Transl. I have to go because of the temple opening there.]

Dr. Patel: After you come here.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Dr. Patel: I think you should stay here little time. It will produce good effect on your health. And on our health also. [laughs]

Prabhupada: So let us go down. [end]