Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 6.3.30–31 – February 22, 1971, Gorakhpur

Prabhupada:

Now Yamaraja is begging pardon from the Supreme Personality of Godhead because his men attempted to arrest a devotee-just see. He says, "I pray to the Supreme Personality of Godhead that He may cleanse my men because they have committed a great offense by attempting to arrest a devotee."

Asat-krtam, sat-krtam means: "To offer respects," and asat-krtam means: "To offer disrespects." To offer disrespects to devotees. As you know Vaisnava aparadha, that's a great offense. And he says, "naḥ". Naḥ means: "Including myself." He is taking responsibility himself also. "So I did not advise, instruct my men before. That they should not go to a devotees-ah that was my offense." Just see how a Vaisnava is humble and meek. Yamaraja, the superintendent of death, a still he's so humble and meek.

"So, so we did not know, neither my men did not know. Without knowing a devotee we tried to arrest," because that was not their mistake. This is the significance of this verse. They knew it very well because in the record of Yamaraja the all the criminal or sinful activities committed by Ajamila was recorded. But by chance he chanted the name of Narayana therefore he was indemnified immediately for all his offenses-but that was not known to the assistants of Yamaraja.

Now he concludes, Sukadeva Gosvami is concluding, kauravya. This is term addressing Maharaja Pariksit as the descendent of the Kurus, kauravya. Tasmat sahkirtanam visnor, last night somebody was speaking that, "Any name chanting will do." No. Sahkirtanam visnor. It is going on that any name, any demigod's name and there is a big propaganda on this point. Some. "So far great personalities, they think like that, that any name will do." But the sastra does not say that: hari-nama. Sastra says the holy name of Hari, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Here also it is said: tasmat sahkirtanam visnor, not any other demigod's name-not this. But they by force, because they are impersonalists, they manufacture such theories without any reference to the authoritative sastra. Visnu-nama, there are ten thousands of names of Visnu. If you chant Visnu's name, visnusahasra name, thousand names of, there is a book, perhaps everyone of you know? Visnusahasra-nama.

So here also it is said, "Out of thousands and thousands of name of Visnu you can chant any one of them." Not any other names. Not that if I chant Kali's name. There is a regular Kali kirtana party in Calcutta, perhaps you know. So these are all imitation, concocted. I have seen there is a party called Kali Kirtana Party. So that is a useless waste of time. Such sahkirtana will not do. Here it is particularly mentioned: tasmat sahkirtanam visnor. Because by chanting Visnu's name, Visnu and Krsna the same, visnu-tattva, visnu-tattva. In the category of Visnu all these names: Krsna, Rama, Madhusūdana, Narayana, so many thousands of names. They count. Chanting the Visnu's name there will be profit, there will be benefit because jagan-mahgalam, jagan-mahgalam amhasam-or all kinds of people, amhasam-or sinful men. It is the most auspicious chanting Visnu's names. Just like we chant the mantra:

That is the recommendation of all sastras. If one. According to Vedic principles if anyone says something which is wrong he immediately rectifies himself, "sri visnu, sri visnu, sri visnu: Oh I have done this wrong." Not any other method. And not.. nobody is recommended to say, "sri sidala, sri sidala, [?] sri visnu." No. Sri Visnu.

This mantra, Visnu is the parama pada. So here it is also saying the same thing, in the Vedic literature you won't find any contradiction. Sometimes we argue, "Somebody has said like this, some mahatma says like this." That is not very valued argument. Valued argument is when you quote from the Vedic literature, that is valuable. Veda-pramana, sruti-pramana. The sruti-pramana is accepted amongst the authorities. Just like Caitanya Mahaprabhu, all the acaryas, they write comments on any authoritative book immediately giving quotations from Vedas to support his comments. Otherwise a personal comment has no meaning. If I comment on some Vedic literature on my personal point of view that is useless, it has no meaning but it is going on, "Oh such and such person." Unless one comes through the parampara system his personality has no value: evam parampara-praptam imam rajarsayo viduḥ, Bhagavad-gita [Bg 4.2]. "Unless one comes in the disciplic succession, chain of disciplic succession, so such persons. I mean to say: opinions or comments has no value."

Mahatam api: Not only ordinary sinful, even the greatest sinful, mahatam api kauravya. Viddhy aikantika-niskrtam, aikantika-niskrtam: fully. If anyone once chants this Lord Visnu's name, Krsna's name, Lord Rama's name:

Immediately aikantika-niskrtam, completely he becomes free from all sinful resultant actions. Immediately. But the difficulty is that after being released from such sinful resultant actions he again commits sins, because he is habituated, he's habituated. Therefore the habit has to be changed. The same example, just like the elephant takes bath very nicely in the sand and as soon as he comes over the land he takes some dust and throws over it. This mentality has to be changed but by construct even in the beginning one who is offender by chanting and committing again the same sin-because due to our practice. Krsna says: api cet su-duracaro bhajate mam ananya-bhak [Bg 9.30]. "If he has got full faith in the chanting of His holy name even if he commits repeatedly sinful actions-on account of his past habits."

Not intentionally, it should not be intentionally done. If one thinks that, "I am chanting Hare Krsna mantra let me go on also committing sins, it will be counteracted." That is greatest crime. Unintentionally due to past habits if one falls down from the sin that is excused and that becomes rectified by chanting. We have to chant therefore a fixed numerical division. So many times, minimum sixteen rounds. It will take not more than two hours. So we can find out, out of twenty-four hours, fifteen minutes, fifteen minutes, fifteen minutes, while walking on the street, while going somewhere, in the bus, in the train and at home, whenever there is. Even by lying down, you can chant, there is no niyamitaḥ smarane na kalaḥ [Cc Antya 20.16]. There is no such restriction that you have to chant this early in the morning or after taking bath or so many. That is good but even that facilities are not available a still we can chant until they become, it is so nice. [tape problem] up to us [?] but chanting sixteen rounds and you are avoiding the offenses. Ten kinds of offenses and take, receive the holy name through the proper channels. Authorized, in this way one can elevate from the material platform to the spiritual platform. Spiritual platform means to become free from material contamination, that is spiritual platform. Tri-gunatita, material platform means the three gunas: sattva, rajas tama. And when one meets transcendental to these gunas -qualities:

One can transcend these three, three qualities. How?

One who is engaged in the devotional service without any [indistinct]. In the beginning one has to...

[tape problem]

...a little attached, then the parents haven't got to, of course then that, "Go to school and this and that," he automatically does. And that sort of mentality, in the beginning everything is like that. Formerly when boys and girls were married at an early age, the girls were about twelve years utmost. So the elderly members of the family used to teach the girls how to satisfy her husband but when the husband and wife become attached there was no need of such instruction. Similarly in the beginning one has to adopt the means and the prescribed rules and regulations of the sastras for devotional service. But when he gets attachment, it is called asakti, asakti. Asakti means attachment. There is stage, if you practice then there will be asakti. Then asakti is not also final, asakti then next stage is bhavaḥ and the next stage is prema. Adau sraddha tataḥ sadhu-sahgo [Cc Madhya 23.14].

If one has got a little faith in devotional service then, as you are all coming here, this is little respect or faith in the devotional service adau sraddha. That is the basic principle. Without sraddha you can not make any progress but strictly speaking that sraddha also unflinching. As it is stated in the Caitanya-caritamrta: 'sraddha'-sabde-visvasa kahe sudrḍha niscaya [Cc Madhya 22.62]. That is sraddha. Just like Krsna says:

Now sraddha or respect for the statement means one who is firmly convinced. What is that? That: krsne bhakti kaile sarva-karma krta haya. If I surrender unto Krsna, under the at the lotus feet of Krsna then all perfection of my activities will come. This firm conviction is the basic principle of sraddha. If you have got a education Krsna says that, "You surrender unto Me," and if I hesitate. I do not know whether Krsna will be actually able to protect give me protection, that is not complete sraddha. Sraddha means: "Full faith." Yes. Krsna the Supreme Personality of Godhead is assuring: aham tvam sarva-papebhyo moksayisyami, then why not surrender unto Him? On this conviction if one surrenders unto Krsna that is the basic principle of sraddha. That sraddha you have to increase by your devotional service. That is the beginning if you have flickering faith then that is also lacking in sraddha. So adau sraddha, so first of all you must have this sraddha. Then because one has got sraddha, naturally his business will be to associate with devotees. "Where devotees are sleeping? How the devotees are working? How they are developing Krsna consciousness?" Though associates, so therefore we give chance, opening centers, we give chance for association. "Please come, sit down here and just try to learn something about devotional service, take prasadam. In this way our activities are to give chance to the ordinary people for good association. If anyone has got sraddha he will take advantage of the association. It is not a money making business that we keep one Deity, Radha-Krsna, that is our business, how? Because we worship but however opportunity is offered to the people in general that they may come, they may offer obeisances, bow down before Krsna. These every item is giving, helping him in Krsna consciousness. Is it true? If anyone comes simply bows down he becomes advanced. That we have discussed in the previous.

[aside:] Don't do that.

Krsnaya no namati: Because the atheist class of men, they do not got to temples neither offer, neither bows down. So to give a chance because hundreds of devotees are bowing down, so one has to do it. That is their krsna-bhakti phase, even if he does not like but out of previous [indistinct] would like to go, "Alright, take the arms and bow down." And as soon as he bows down he makes one step advancement, immediately. If he plays any instrument he advances, if he hears the prayer he advances. So these are the chances given to the ordinary neophytes. And as he comes, as he appreciates, sadhu-sahgaḥ, adau sraddha tataḥ sadhu-sahgo. The opportunity of sadhu-sahga is given and by sadhu-sahga, when he is rectified almost. He offers himself, "Swamiji kindly initiate me." I get so many letters, so many requests, that is natural. If one has actually done sadhu-sahga he will be inclinded to be a bona fide disciple, he is guided by a bona fide spiritual master. That is called bhajana-kriya.

And if he actually follows the rules and regulations of bhajana then anartha-nivrttiḥ syat. Then anartha, unnecessary nonsense habits, sinful habits, will disappear. Just like these boys and girls they are habituated in so many unapproved habits but they have disappeared. Take for example they were meat-eating, they have given up meat-eating. They have given up, they were. Because in their social affairs meat-eating and drinking is a common thing, in Europe and America but this bhajana-kriya helped them to give up everything. They are not even smoking, what to speak of drinking, they do not smoke even cigarettes, don't take tea, don't take coffee. This is called anartha-nivrttiḥ. Nivrttiḥ means: "Vanishing, completely vanishing." Anartha, anartha: "That is not required." Nobody is dying without smoking, nobody is dying without drinking tea, nobody is dying without illicit sex but by bad association one learns all this nonsense. So similarly by good association and bhajana-kriya they can give it up. That chance we are giving. Anartha nivrttiḥ syat.

So after anartha-nivrttiḥ, nistha: "Yes, I must take to devotional service," nistha. Then ruciḥ: then there is taste, there is taste. Wherever there is some talk of Krsna immediately he goes there because he has got a taste. Then asakti, asakti means: "Attachment." When asakti platform is there he can not give up-asakti. Just like one becomes attached to drinking wine, he can not give up similarly the same asakti is transferred to Krsna consciousness and he can not give up. You can pay him lahks of rupees, "That give up this." Some of our students they have been actually offered by their fathers that, "You give up this Krsna consciousness, I'll give you ten thousand dollars," and like that. "You do some business," but they, "No." They are living with us although they have no very good facility for eating, sleeping but still because there is attachment they are with us. That is called asakti. After this asakti there is bhavaḥ-always thinking of Krsna, and the next stage is prema: how to love Krsna, become mad after Krsna. Just like Caitanya Mahaprabhu showed the example:

When there is prema these things comes to be manifest, yugayitam nimesena: "One moment will appear just like hundreds of years." Yugayitam nimesena caksusa pravrsayitam: "Crying, the tears coming incessantly like torrents of rain." Caksusa pravrsayitam sūnyayitam jagat sarvam, "And without Govinda, without Krsna, the whole world is vacant." That is prema. Just like Gosvamis were, Gosvamis, they also told this: he radhe! vraja-devike! ca lalite! he nanda-sūno! kutaḥ [Saḍ-gosvamy-astaka, 8].

They were living in Vrndavana, they were simply searching after, he radhe!: Sri Radharani, he nanda-suta!: "O the son of Sri Nanda Maharaja," that means Krsna. He radhe! he nanda-sūno! he vraja-devike! ca lalite! Vraja-devi the gopis, they are vraja-devis. Lalite: the principle of the gopis, that's Radharani. He radhe! vraja-devike! ca lalite! he nanda-sūno! kutaḥ, "Why You are?" Govardhana-kalpa-padapa-tale kalindi-vanye kutaḥ: "Are You near the Govardhan Hill or in the forest on the bank of the Yamuna River? Where You are?" This searching, this searching is called vipralamba, love in separation, that is wanted. Feeling separation intensely and searching after, "Where is Krsna? Where is Krsna? Where is Krsna?"

Ghosantav iti sarvato vraja-pure khedair maha-vihvalau: The Gosvamis, they were searching after Krsna and Krsna's associates all over Vrndavana-vraja-pure. Ghosantav iti sarvato vraja-pure, khedair: simply lamenting, "Where You are? Where You are?" This is prema. Not that, "Oh I seen yesterday, last night, Krsna. He was dressing my cloth." This is sahajiya, this is sahajiya. This is actual vairagya, when one becomes mad after Krsna, "Where is Krsna? Where is Krsna? Where is Krsna?" That is prema and that is the highest perfection of life. So this highest perfection of life can be achieved beginning with:

Simply by chanting the holy name of the Lord. Tasmat sahkirtanam visnor: of Lord Visnu, Krsna, Rama. Then:

Even one is very grievously offender, sinful, he is also relieved and as soon as he's relieved the other things will follow. So long one is not relieved from sinful activities one can not take to devotional service. That is also stated in the Srimad-Bhagavad-gita [7.28]: yesam anta-gatam papam. "One who is completely free from all sinful reaction."

The sinful reaction can be immediately freed by chanting but one who sticks to, "No more commit any sinful offense." He is immediately purified. It's yesam anta-gatam papam. In this way, when one is completely freed from sinful actions, this jananam punya-karmanam, and as soon as he is freed from sinful reactions his next activities will be simply pious activities. Devotional service is simply pious, punya-sravana-kirtanaḥ [SB 1.2.17]. Punya means: "Pious." Even one does not understand if he simply hears and chants, that is punya, pious activities. Therefore the devotee is always situated on the pious activity platform:

The same thing in Bhagavad-gita:

As soon as you are situated on this platform then there is no question of duality. Whether I shall do it or do not. He is fixed up. Te dvandva-moha-nirmukta bhajante mam drḍha-vrataḥ: and anyone who is engaged with faith and steadiness in devotional service, he is mahatma.

That is the symptom of mahatma, not that a manufactured mahatma, doing all wrong things and becomes mahatma-no. He is a duratma. Anyone who is not devotee of Krsna is a duratma, he is not mahatma. That is not said in the sastras. You can not manufacture mahatma by your concoctions, here is mahatma: sa mahatma sudurlabhaḥ. He is fully surrendered unto Krsna. Sa mahatma sudurlabhaḥ [Bg 7.19], that is mahatma.

Devotee: Is bhakti [indistinct] mahabhava [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Mahabhava is just like... it is not possible by any ordinary. Mahabhava stage is possible by the gopis, the personal associates, eternal. And that is Krsna's potency, pleasure potency. They are mahabhagavatas, mahabhava is [indistinct] or with Krsna. Just like Caitanya Mahaprabhu has mahabhava. Mahabhava is not possible for ordinary devotees.

Devotee: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: No. That is imitation, even they show some symptoms of mahabhava. Just like some falling down, this is imitation, chanting, chanting, fall down. Who will note this? You see? What is? So this is not possible for ordinary devotee, mahabhava is different.

Indian Guest: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Hm? Because Krsna is God.

Indian Guest: Yes. [indistinct] Krsna is nirakara.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Indian Guest: So there have been so many teachers like Ramakrishna [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Well Ramakrishna is not a teacher.

Indian Guest: [indistinct] God.

Prabhupada: Ah. These are manufactured. It is not bona fide.

Indian Guest: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: We cannot say I... at least we do not agree, you can not say whole world. So there is a list of incarnations, there are symptoms of incarnation. Incarnation does not mean anyone can claim that he is incarnation. There must be symptoms of incarnation. Every incarnation. Just like Lord Caitanya is accepted as incarnation in the sastras and His symptoms are there:

Similarly any incarnation you take, you have to consult sastra, characteristics of that incarnation.

Indian Guest: [indistinct] sastras.

Prabhupada: Well if there is not mentioned in the sastras how you can accept incarnation?

Indian Guest: Well [indistinct]

Prabhupada: No.

Indian Guest: [indistinct] natural that we are having [indistinct]

Prabhupada: No. Even in the future.

Indian Guest: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Even in future tense just like Lord Buddha, that is mentioned. Although Srimad-Bhagavatam was written five thousand years ago. So Lord Buddha's name is there. Lord Buddha appeared three thousand five hundred or six hundred years, so bhavisyati. That means sastra is indicating in future Lord Buddha will come. Just like Kalki will come, that is also mentioned. In future at such and such time. Under such and such circumstances, "His father's name is that, his native place is that," everything is mentioned, that is sastras. Even if one is going to be incarnation in the future, that is also mentioned in the sastra. Not that because sastra was written at a certain time and the incarnation was not there. No, in the sastra the future incarnations are there also.

Indian Guest: But Swamiji [indistinct]

Prabhupada: But Ramana, what he is?

Indian Guest: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: That is [y]our misconception, what you know of Vedas?

Indian Guest: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: That maybe, this is a fools paradise, that is the word, that is another thing, but our authorities. Just like Krsna says: evam parampara-praptam [Bg 4.2], "Unless one is coming down from the parampara system. They are not authorities." They are not authorities.

Indian Guest 2: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: But, but we do not say anyone who becomes in ecstasy in hari-kirtana, he worships some demigod.

Indian Guest: You believe that Lord Christ was a incarnation of?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Indian Guest: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Saktyavesa-avatara, yes. Mahabhagavata also. He never said that, "I am God."

Indian Guest: How do you know that I am [he] son of God?

Prabhupada: Son of God is different. Son of God, everyone is son of God, everyone is son of God.

Indian Guest: Son and the father are the same.

Prabhupada: Yes, actually son and father is the same, that, there is no discrepency. This misconception, without reference of the sastras and authorities, has deteriorated India's position.

Indian Guest: [indistinct] great [indistinct]

Prabhupada: He may be, a person may be very great devotee, great man, that is another thing. But to accept one as incarnation, that is different.

Indian Guest: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Yes. He may be very great man, that is alright.

Indian Guest: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Yad yad vibhūtimat sattva. Anyone a sense of exceptional qualities, mama tejo'msa-sambhavam [Bg 10.41], Krsna says, "They are born of my tejaḥ, amsa." But that does not mean he is incarnation. There were many persons, Hitler was also a very big man but that does not mean he becomes an incarnation. Napoleon Bonaparte, he also was a very big man. So in this world you will find big and bigger, bigger, bigger. One is bigger than another then up to go to Brahma. Who can become like Brahma? He has created this whole universe and he lives, you know? He lives: sahasra-yuga-paryantam, ahar yad brahmano viduḥ [Bg 8.17], you can not calculate even his one day's life.

But he's not, he never says that, "I am incarnation and God." So powerful. In comparison to Brahma what are these insignificant-insignificant creatures? He is creator of this universe and his one day's life you can not calculate, that is stated in the Bhagavad-gita: sahasra-yuga-paryantam. Forty-three lahks of years makes one yuga and multiply it by thousand, sahasra yuga ahar yad, that is Brahma's twelve hours period. But he has never claims that he is incarnation of God. And what to speak of these insignificant-insignificant persons. So God or God's incarnation not so cheap thing? You should know what is God. That's from Bhagavad-gita straight line [?], this Brahma, why twelve hours you can not calculate? And how many in three days? Twelve hours you can calculate but twelve hours, again twelve hours night. Then, sahasra-yuga-paryantam, again in this one month, and this in one year, such one thousand years, a one hundred years to be. So you can not calculate. Such a big personality, the first-born creature within this universe, he also never claims that, "I am incarnation of God."

Indian Guest: [indistinct] Ramakrishna, he never would have claimed [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Yes, yes. He, he claimed, he claimed. He claimed he said that, "I am the same Rama and Krsna and Vivekananda accepted it."

Indian Guest: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: That way, that means he claimed, he claimed.

Indian Guest: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: If he did not claim then how Vivekananda knew that he is incarnation?

Indian Guest: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Well, at the last moment you can also say. Does it mean, does it, does it prove that you are incarnation? We shall have to see, what are your symptoms of incarnation. That is stated in this. Just like characteristics, if you want to test one, any chemical, say test this salt. The salt and the sugar, it is looking the same, sometimes we mistake. By tasting we can know that this is salt and this is sugar. So what is the test? Simply by declaring somehow, "I am the same Krsna," also I become incarnation? What is the test? Just like test regarding Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Lord Buddhadeva, Kalki, there are tests. Lord Krsna, there is test, Lord Ramacandra, there is test. What is the test of this Ramakrishna becoming incarnation?

Just like we are singing the song:

Immediately, giri-vara-dhari, lifting the hill, Govardhana Hill. It is impossible for any common man. A seven years old boy, he is lifting big hill.

Indian Guest: [indistinct] Ramakrishna [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Eh?

Indian Guest: [indistinct] Govardhana [indistinct] Mount Everest [indistinct]

Prabhupada: So you go on, you stop drinking that's very... all these boys have kicked up all these things without having being described as incarnation. Simply by my instruction, "You give up all this nonsense, they have sobered up." Does that mean I am incarnation because I have helped them in giving up drinking?

Indian Guest: [laughs]

Prabhupada: They have kicked out, in one word, then I am better than Ramakrishna. Thousands of boys have given up. What Girish Ghose was? He was a ganja smoker, I know. These are not the symptoms of incarnation. That helping one Girish Ghose from drinking. Now stopping these.

Indian Guest: [laughter]

Prabhupada: An incarnation is not so cheap. We should consult sastras, that will be difficult. Krsna says in the Bhagavad-gita:

"You'll never get perfection." Na sukham: "Neither happiness." And what to speak of going to the transcendental world? Na param gatim. We have to consult sastras then understand who is incarnation, who is not incarnation and who is guru. This nonsense propagation that one, everyone can have his opinion and that is their religion. Now the result is the Naxalites, they have created like steal-men [?]. That is also another way of realizing. So our, our point of view that we are preaching this Krsna Consciousness Movement on the basis of sastra, not whimsically. Therefore I particularly named Krsna-Krsna consciousness.

So we are helping people just on the basis of Krsna's instructions. Who can be greater instructor than Krsna and who can be greater God than Krsna? Supposing we accept Ramakrishna is incarnation, he says that, "I am the same Rama-Krsna," or Vivekananda preached that, "Here is God, Krsna, the same Krsna and Rama." Now he is taking shelter of Krsna and Rama. Not by his activities he is proving he's incarnation. He is taking shelter, "I am the same Krsna and same Rama." Is it not? What is that?

Indian Guest: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Eh? No. No. If he says that, "I am the same Rama and Krsna," that means he is taking shelter of Krsna and Rama. Is it not?

Indian Guest: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: No. No. That's all [indistinct]. With reference to Krsna. Because Krsna is accepted as God.

Indian Guest: [indistinct] Rama and Krsna and then again he came as Ramakrishna.

Prabhupada: That's alright, he is, he is taking reference with Krsna. Because Krsna is accepted as Lord he is taking advantage of Krsna's position, that's all. Is it not?

Indian Guest: I mean to say [indistinct] she has respect for all the family members but she has got a special love for her husband. But the same thing for a devotee of Lord Krsna.

Prabhupada: Anyway...

Indian Guest: [indistinct] everybody has a moment [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Not that. Suppose this lady says that, "I am the wife of such and such gentleman." So I am interested with such and such gentleman, or any other, anyone else. The interest is to be real husband not that I will accept somebody as her husband who is not real. So as soon as I say I am the same Rama and Krsna then I am taking shelter of Rama and Krsna.

Indian Guest: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: And his name is therefore given. His real name was Gadhadhara Chatterjee. His name was Gadhadhara Chatterjee, he was a priest and he was priest accepted as Rama and Krsna by Vivekananda, and priest. Now I, suppose he is incarnation of Rama and Krsna, take it for granted. Now he is the incarnation of Krsna and Rama so when Krsna is there, Rama is there, why you accept incarnation? Why not real Rama and Krsna?

Indian Guest: Well there are so many [indistinct] details [indistinct] and so on [indistinct]

Prabhupada: That, that.That is another thing but when we are speaking of Krsna, of course there is no.. There is no difference between, that we have to make a through study. Just like about Buddha, it is said that: sammohaya sura-dvisam [SB 1.3.24].

Just to bewilder the atheist class of men, that is stated there. Lord Buddha appeared just to bewilder the sura-dvisam, the sura dvisam means: "Those who are envious of the devotees," or the atheist class of men. Now what was that bewilderment? The atheist class of man, they do not believe in God. Lord Buddha never said that there is God. He said that, "Yes, there is no God, there is no soul," ahimsa paramo dharmaḥ [Satvata-tantra 9.40]. "You just become nonviolent and hear what I say." Now He is incarnation of God, He never says that, "I am incarnation," because He did not say about God so there is no question of He is saying that, "I am incarnation of God." But the sastra says that he is incarnation of God. So He says, to the atheist class. "You hear me, I say that you become nonviolent, don't kill animals." So God is saying in a different way but they are taking, "There is no God, let us follow Lord Buddha." That is called sammohaya, this very word is used.

So it is no use arguing but if you consult and take reference from the sastras, then everything will be clear. But if you say that, "There is no need of reference to the sastras," then there can not. There cannot be any end of argument.

Indian Guest: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Yes. So we are speaking on the authority of Bhagavad-gita especially. Therefore our societies name is Krsna Consciousness. But when you say something which has reference to the sastras, we have to stick to the reference of the sastras, otherwise there is no end of argument. Krsna says: yathaidhamsi samiddho 'gnir. [Bg 4.37] We are referring to Bhagavad-gita, that you can not go out of the reference of the sastras to create something, that is not possible. That will not admit and nobody can create sastras: dharmam tu saksad bhagavat-pranitam [SB 6.3.19].

Sastra and dharma is the creation of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Not that anyone can create any religious principle, no, that is also not possible. That is not allowed. So Ramakrishna Mission says: yato mata tato patha. Is it not? That means anyone can create an institute of dharma.

Indian Guest: [indistinct] because God is one.

Prabhupada: That's a fact, that's a fact but that God is not so cheap. That's a fact, God is one, it is not that, that anyone and everyone can become God.

Indian Guest: [indistinct] proved that theory and become realized God in this very life.

Prabhupada: But he has not studied at least Hindu religion. I will say. I will give you evidence. You should refer to the Hindu religion system. Then I say he has not at least tried to know what is real religion. For arguement's sake.

Indian Guest: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: No. Because you have referred, that's what I am replying you. Because you see if you ask something..

Indian Guest: [indistinct] if we had more time. I shall come some time and...

Prabhupada: No, we have got enough time, we are meant for this purpose, we can spend twenty-four hours for this way, if you take really time to hear. [pause]

Indian Guest: Then how long will you be here?

Prabhupada: For the time being, suppose I'll be up to the end of this month. These boys and girls in Europe and America they have been benefited because they have no any concoctions within their brain. They have been presented, krsnas tu bhagavan svayam [SB 1.3.28], and they are, I mean to say ordered to follow certain principles, and they have faithfully done it and they have taken Krsna consciousness and they are [indistinct].

That is their [indistinct]. They have no hodgepodge ideas [indistinct]. And that is the only constitution by which they are improving so quickly. Within four years they have became so nice Vaisnavas that in our country also, the Vaisnavas are feeling ashamed by this sincere behavior.

Indian Guest: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Eh?

Indian Guest: [indistinct] sincere [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Here. What is that sincere? Sincerity means they have accepted the right thing. Krsna says:

They have accepted. Sincerity. They have nothing within the brains that there was so many other kincana, other kincana and other kincana. You should take Bhagavad-gita, that is.. that was spoken five thousand years ago and any section, any mission, they are referring to the Bhagavad-gita. So they can not avoid Bhagavad-gita.

Indian Guest: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Then why not directly Bhagavad-gita? Why you are going here and there? The Bhagavad-gita is the essence, why you are going here and there? Take Bhagavad-gita as it is and you will be benefited. Why adulteration? Why incarnation of Krsna, why not Krsna direct? That is our proposition. If you have got the original thing.

Indian Guest: [indistinct] Krsna was also incarnation of Visnu only.

Prabhupada: That's alright, we are talking of Bhagavad-gita. That when the original thing is present there why a substitute? That is intelligence. Why should we accept a substitute when the original thing is present there?

Indian Guest: But Ramakrishna [indistinct]

Prabhupada: That's alright, taking Krsna as incarnation or Bhagavad-gita spoken by... we are dealing with Bhagavad-gita and everyone is reading. Sri Aurobindo also reads, writes on Bhagavad-gita, Vivekananda speaks on Bhagavad-gita. Any big man, Gandhi speaks on Bhagavad-gita and everyone speaks in foreign countries, here also, why not take directly Bhagavad-gita? What is the objection?

Indian Guest: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Yes. That you have to do. That's it.

Indian Guest: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: But if you have seen Bhagavad-gita finish it take it sincerly and you begin. Don't make adulteration. That is our proposition. Especially putting forward that using the Bhagavad-gita, take it as it is, you are benefited. If you are getting fresh milk from the cows why should you go to accept bottled milk? "The bottled milk, [indistinct] will give you same milk," that's alright, "I am getting fresh milk from the cows directly." Which you will prefer?

Indian Guest: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: That is another point.

Indian Guest: [indistinct] the cows [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Then bottled milk is guaranteed that it is not taken from the diseased cow?

Audience: [laughter]

Prabhupada: But this is your argument. Why not? I am talking of fresh milk.

Indian Guest: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: [laughter] Oh, then do you mean to say that bottled milk, is guaranteed that it is not from the diseased cow? That is no argument. There are two kinds of milk current, one man is giving directly fresh milk and another one is selling bottled milk, who is fresher? Sometimes we go purchase, to purchase medicine and the dealer says, "Here is a substitute it is as good as the... it is cheaper." Then he says, "Oh no, I don't want cheaper, give me that original." What do you think? That is intelligence. Because it is cheaper, it may be [indistinct]. Why should take the risk?. Then we take directly. That is the original. That is intelligence. When the original is available why I shall go to the substitute? That is our argument. [Hindi]...

Study the original instruction from Krsna and be benefited. That is our proposal. This is prasada. [indistinct]

Devotee: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Hm?

Devotee: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: For a layman one should [indistinct] unless he consults a doctor and one who knows that the ingredients of Anacin Aspro is the same. Cathline [?] asprin and penadrixal [?] then there is no harm taking asprin because maybe different.

Devotee: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Maybe they are. The ingredients are the same, I know what is aspro and what is anasine [?]. I was chemist in my grhastha life. This is combination of Phenacetin asprin...

[Break]

That is alright. The formula is different then rectifying, analyze it.

So in the Bhagavad-gita it is said: mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg 18.66]. And Ramakrishna says that any particle. The formulae is the same? Therefore we should not accept it. Krsna says: mam ekam! And Ramakrishna says any ekam is similar? Immediately the formula different. Is it not? Therefore how can I accept?

Indian Guest: [indistinct] Vivekananda [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Krsna says, "mam" and Ramakrishna says, "anything".

This is trying new. That he has business and now try. An old acquaintance I went to see that he personally told me that the Americans now are inquiring that, "You are taken so much, so much money for distributing to the poor and when we go to India we see that so many poor men are lying on the footpath. So how you are utilizing this money?" This question was asked by the Americans. That they conclude. Even in America there are many institutions, I know-bogus. They draw huge quantities of money from the foundations, As you were, just like our government for rehabilitation. So many things are going on. So in the name of India, poor India, suffering India so many.

Devotee: [indistinct] Foundation.

Prabhupada: Yes. You can become a kept dog. What is called? Kept wolf?

Devotee: Kept wolf?

Prabhupada: Kept wolf? Yes. And it is advertised that India is very poor, dying. Without American sons are dying.

Devotee: Yes. [End]