Lecture – December 4, 1970, Indore

Devotee (1): [indistinct] even after [indistinct] Maharishi will be gone. [indistinct] [Laughter] If they had a parent [indistinct] very wealthy parent.

Revatinandana: People come on Sunday like this.

Devotee (1): I know, I lived in Chicago he became very famous.

Prabhupada: He has becomes famous in India.

Devotee (1): [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Not in New York. You see?

Devotee (1): [indistinct] he came here [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Here?

Revatinandana: [Laughs] [indistinct] he said that the bees are very intelligent. A divine form of bees [?] [indistinct]

Hamsadūta: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: This is Kamsa's business. Always thinking of how to kill Krsna. Ravana's business. Always thinking of how to kill Rama. Therefore they are demons and anyone following the principles is a demon. How to kill God and make atheism prominent in it's place [?]. The present endeavor of the human society is like that. They like Buddhism as you call-there is no question of God. Therefore some of them like Buddhism. The same demonism.

Hamsadūta: Yes.

Prabhupada: But in a pollute form. That's all.

Hamsadūta: Yes.

Prabhupada: Buddhism, Jainism, yoga, all this Vedanta they are all demons. Under different name they called. The main purpose is to throw away God and become God himself, that's all.

Mataji: Can you explain Jainism?

Prabhupada: Jainism is like Buddhism.

Mataji: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Ahimsa-nonviolence. Outside of the [indistinct] that's called this man is put into trouble. But even in that troubled condition-it is not trouble for him. Even if it is trouble but he does not forget Krsna. That is mistaken.

Hamsadūta: So the yogis are always thinking that this world is too much trouble and they want to go out?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Hamsadūta: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Krsna or the devotees has no such plan. Go out or go in it doesn't matter. We want to serve. That's all.

Hamsadūta: In the Sri Īsopanisad [indistinct] says that, "The Personality of Godhead is perfect and complete and everything emanates from Him is also complete in itself. And because He is the Complete Whole He remains the Complete Balance." So does it mean that for a devotee, a pure devotee. Everything that is going on either in this world or in the spiritual world is part of the Personality of Godhead. Is part of His personality. Is that a fact?

Prabhupada:Hm? Is part of?

Hamsadūta: It is called a personality, in other words he can take everything personally.

Prabhupada: Who?

Hamsadūta: The devotee.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Hamsadūta: He accepts everything on a personal basis.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Devotees: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: That boy in New Vrindavan, busy bee.

Hamsadūta: Who?

Prabhupada: Busy bee.

Hamsadūta: Busy bee? [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Yes.

Hamsadūta: I've never met him but I have heard about him. I've never met him.

Prabhupada: [Laughs]. They call him busy bee.

Hamsadūta: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: A busy bee being there is very nice. Being attached to a nitya-siddha.

Hamsadūta: Whose Nit...? [?]

Prabhupada: Nitya-siddha.

Hamsadūta: Who is Nitya-siddha?

Prabhupada: [indistinct] appears. In any circumstances he does not forget Jagannatha. He is child and he does not forget Jagannatha.

Revatinandana: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Hm. A child and he does not care for his toys. He is fully engaged only in Jagannatha. Wherever he sits down, he puts some you know base and puts Jagannatha and makes some sweets and caranamrta and some flower. He has all [indistinct] very good attachment for Jagannatha worship.

Hamsadūta: It appears to me that this child is based on its very beginning in the house of a Vaisnava or in the company and he bound to turn out to be a pure devotee. It seems to be total attracted to Krsna conciousness.

Prabhupada: Rest.. Restless child means very intelligent child.

Hamsadūta: Restless?

Prabhupada: A child who is very restless, or he seems to be, is understood to be very intelligent. But the father and mother does not know how to capture it.

Hamsadūta: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Otherwise the sign is restlessness, means he is very intelligent. [indistinct]. Don't you see life of Krsna?

Hamsadūta: Yes.

Prabhupada: How much restless He?

Hamsadūta: [Laughter]

Prabhupada: [Laughter] Mother Yasoda [Laughter] Yasodamayi [Laughter]. This is [indistinct].

Revatinandana: Before we were devotees I was living in a [indistinct] with Dvarkadisa and his mother. And sometimes we would have kirtana. He would chant, he would always be very happy, he'd run around and he would always chant, he liked it very much.

Prabhupada: That boy?

Revatinandana: [indistinct]. He was always absorbed in his maya. He was never much [indistinct]. I think he was attached after Jagannatha that same tendancy [indistinct] he was like that always. [indistinct] for a long time.

Prabhupada: So they were that morning Sun or a different?

Revatinandana: Well it's not morning Sun [indistinct] New Mexico.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Revatinandana: [indistinct] morning [indistinct] in New Mexico. [indistinct] in New Mexico there also [indistinct] after morning chana. Morning chana was Madhudvisa Maharaja, Tamala Krsna dasa and...

Prabhupada: I was, I, I went there.

Revatinandana: You went there, I know. I heard about that... I think after you had gone.

Hamsadūta: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: I went there. The organizer Mr...?

Devotee (1): Gadhi.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Devotee (1): Gadhi.

Prabhupada: Godly?

Devotee (1): Harir Gadhi.

Prabhupada:Harir. He took me there.

Devotee (1): Crazy man [Laughter]

Prabhupada: I held kirtana there. You remember?

Hamsadūta: Ah, yes. He also wrote [indistinct]

Revatinandana: [indistinct] really? I think Bhakta Rūpa was living in that place at one time.

Hamsadūta: [indistinct] Damodara?

Revatinandana: This is [indistinct]

Hamsadūta: [indistinct] Hayagriva's wife was there.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Hamsadūta: [indistinct] apologized [indistinct]

Revatinandana: Possibly [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Hm.

Hamsadūta: [indistinct] [break]

Prabhupada: But you cannot have home here.

Hamsadūta: No.

Prabhupada: That is not possible. So why you bother about this temporary home? Rather do some hard work for going back to home, back to Godhead. That should be taken. Actually you have no home.

Hamsadūta: That's a fact.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Hamsadūta: Just as if [indistinct] at any time.

Prabhupada: Eh? And why should we bother about home? It is not possible. That: tasyaiva hetoḥ prayateta kovido [SB 1.5.18]. Bhagavata says that you cry for that thing which is not available by wandering from Brahmaloka down to the Patala-loka. Actually wondering perpetually and you do not know why you are wandering, why you are changing your dress and I am called eternal. Why it is in this diseased condition? They do not think like that.

Hamsadūta: No.

Prabhupada: [indistinct] Just like a foolish patient he is suffering. He is thinking he is all right. "It is all right." Yes there are so many diseased fellows, they don't take seriously the disease. They maybe all right. Similarly this is a disease to change body one after another. But they are... They do not know what to do and if they know, "All right, disease is all right." This is knowledge.

So you can begin arati. [break] So business means you are want to earn money.

Devotee (1): [indistinct]

Prabhupada: And what you will do with money?

Devotee (2): [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Come here, come here.. What you will do with money?

Devotee (2): [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Eh?

Devotee (2): [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Sit down. Do you think you can help the poor?

Devotee (2): [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Eh?

Devotee (2): This material [indistinct]

Prabhupada: How many poor men you can feed?

Devotee (2): Not [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Then?

Devotee (2): [indistinct] kirtana.

Prabhupada: There are so many institutions, the problem of poor is solved?

Devotee (2): [indistinct]

Prabhupada: All over the world there are hundreds and thousands of institutions for giving enlightenment but there are millions and millions of poor men still. How do you think, that it will be solved?

Devotee (2): [indistinct]

Prabhupada: You can do but the problem will be not solved. That is my consideration. You do your best but the problem will not be solved. There are the whole.. You are thinking because you are maunanihanilayama [SB 11.18.17]

Devotee (1): [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Ah. You are [indistinct] poor therefore you are thinking that I shall be able to do something to my..., but these American boy, they are the richest country. They have not solved this problem.

Devotee (2): [indistinct] solve the problem.

Prabhupada: They are in it. You see if the problem is not solved then your aim of life is not very solid. You say that after earning money, "I shall try to solve this problem."

Devotee (2): [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Individually or collectively. In USA in the universities they are well equipped, very big, big buildings and nothing is wanted. But they are producing all confused students. In England there is a scarcity of educated laborers. They are no more interested even for education. The young boy. So in England especially I have seen, they have to employ so many Indians for high respectable posts. In London the civil officer, or civil servant is a Bengali gentleman. That means they are finding difficulty in having their own men for responsible posts. They are no more.

They are no more interested for education. They are so much disappointed. Although there is free education, free medical help, in England. People are still not satisfied. So that is not possible. You cannot make the people of the world happy by your plan. People can be happy only by Krsna consciousness. That is my point. So you ask your father to spare this house for spreading Krsna consciousness and you will become a prominent secretary. To preach this cult here.

[Aside:] Why you are going?

Mataji: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Eh?

Mataji: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: People are... Eh?

Devotee (3): [Hindi]

Prabhupada: Krsna comes by karunika. [Hindi]

Devotee (3): [Hindi]

Prabhupada: [Hindi]. That Krsna says, imam vivasvate yogam proktavan aham avyayam [Bg 4.1], vivasvate imam yogam [Hindi].

Devotee (3): [Hindi]

Prabhupada: [Hindi]

Devotee (3): [Hindi]

Prabhupada: [Hindi] Caitanya Mahaprabhu, Gopal Krsna Himself.

Devotee (3): [Hindi]

Prabhupada: [Hindi] Guru Maharaja. But it has come into prominence since 4 or 5 years... [Hindi]

Devotee (3): [Hindi]

Prabhupada: [Hindi] that's nice. What is your subject?

Devotee (3): Economics, political science, [indistinct]

Prabhupada: That's [indistinct] I had also economics in my day. Economics and philosophy. And philosophy.

Devotee (3): Pardon?

Prabhupada: And philosophy.

Devotee (3): Philosophy also.

Prabhupada: No I took.

Devotee (3): [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Economics and philosophy. Metaphysics, psychology, ethics.

Devotee (3): [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Yes...

Revatinandana: Srila Prabhupada, did you read all those western philosophers, like Descartes and Hume and Kant. Did you not read them? What did you think?

Prabhupada: No, I read, Kant says like this [indistinct] says like this, theory. My professor Dr. Urquhart he was a staunch Christian. He was talking the Bible also. He did not believe in karma. Christians cannot believe in karma because after this life finished there is no more life. Is it not?

Devotee (2): No future life.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Devotee (1): They generally say... there is no rebirth.

Prabhupada: So, there is no karma?

Revatinandana: It's either heaven or hell.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Revatinandana: [indistinct] either you go to heaven or you go to hell forever.

Prabhupada: In one sense it is all right. Because hell means you again glide down to the cycle of birth and death and that is hell. And heaven means to promote yourself to the kingdom of God. In that sense it is all right. You take one chance, human form of life, so you can make this life utilized either for going back to home, or again you come down to the repetition of birth and death. That is hell.

Devotee (1): [indistinct]

Prabhupada: In that sense it is nice.

Revatinandana: The differance is that they say once you have gone down...

Prabhupada: It is not very explicit.

Revatinandana: Yes.

Prabhupada: But the rudimentary idea is there. Either hell or heaven. It is a choice. You make your choice for heaven or you make your choice for hell. That we say also. Manusam durlabham.. tad apy arthadam adhruvam [SB 7.6.1]. It is very rare life, although it will be finished but it can give you the greatest benediction. So we should take that benediction otherwise you go to hell... [Hindi].

[pause]

Can economic's science help a man to improve his economic condition?

Devotee (3): [indistinct]

Prabhupada: But there are many instances that a man tries for better life, throughout the whole life. But sometimes it is not successful.

Devotee (3): [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Eh?

Devotee (3): [indistinct]

Prabhupada: [indistinct] on condition.

Devotee (3): Yes.

Prabhupada: And sometimes it is found that a man, especially in Marwari community. They do not know any economic's education [indistinct] and they earn and millions and millions.

Devotee (3): [indistinct]

Prabhupada: [Laughs] why it has been so? He never went to college to study economics but he knows so nice how to utilize economics. There are many amongst Marwari and they cannot find even a chair but millionaire. They earn money. Yes... My point is that even if you don't study economics you can become very rich man. There are many instances.

Devotee (3): Yes.

Prabhupada: So why should you waste your time in that?

Devotee (3): [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Tal-labhyate duḥkhavad anyataḥ sukham [SB 1.5.18] Bhagavata says that; just like duḥkha, duḥkha means-distress. If you're destined to suffer some distress even if you don't try for it-it will come. Similarly if you're destined to have some profit, if you don't try for it it will come. Nobody tries for distress, why does it come? Therefore the natural conclusion should be, even if I don't try for economic development.

If I am destined it will come. Therefore I should. Save my energy for developing Krsna consciousness. That is right conclusion. I should save energy for. Collect all energy that is in my possession for utilization in Krsna consciousness. So far distress and happiness is concerned whatever it may come, that is all right. Either distress or happiness, don't mind. Bhaja budam tattvavit [?] You understand Sanskrit? Budam is [indistinct], let this happen. I am not concerned with that, let it happen. I'm concerned with the develop my Krsna consciousness...

[Hindi]...

Devotee (3): [indistinct]

Prabhupada: About this song.

Devotee (3): [indistinct]

Prabhupada: And for us?

Devotee (3): [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Hm.

Devotee (3): [indistinct] taken a flat in Bombay.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Devotee (3): He's taken a flat in Bombay. And [indistinct]... buy the flat in Bombay. [indistinct]

Prabhupada: [Hindi]

Devotee (3): [Hindi]

Prabhupada: [Hindi]

Devotee (3): [Hindi]

Prabhupada: [Hindi]

Devotee (3): [Hindi]

Prabhupada: [Hindi] [indistinct]... is the first-class spot.

Devotee (3): [indistinct]

Prabhupada: That is very respectable part. They are planning in their own way...

[break]

...office. He has been given to copy affairs, rough account book to make a copy. So he's doing. Now after some time he is in the, what is called? Toilet room. So the boss saw that he was in the toilet room two hours ago and again he is still. So he became angry. "Ah this man is always in the toilet room. What he is..?" He asked him, "What you are doing here? I saw you two hours ago." "Sir I am finding out one fly." "Fly. Why?" "Sir in the rough account book there is a fly pressed there. So I'll have to do that." [Laughter].

So it will be difficulty [Laughter]. To catch this fly. [Laughter]. Whole day... [Laughter] [Hindi] you are excellent copies. Please go on and don't enjoy the [Laughter] text reply[?] [Laughter]. [Hindi]. Did not hear this study. It is very interesting. [Machi-mara kerani] [Laughter] fly killing clerk. [Laughter].

Mataji: Fly killing clerk?

Prabhupada: Clerk. Clerk engaged in killing a fly. [Laughter]. One of our class friends [laughs]. Yes, the Professor, Dr. Kalidasnath he dictated, "Roman one." And some dictators. Some history notes that is in our higher-class. So one of our class friends in the examination he has also written, "Roman one." "Roman one" means this 1.

Devotee (1): [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Yes. But he has written, "Roman one," and exactly the word. "Roman one," 1, 2, exactly he wanted. He didn't have experience. So after the examination over, so [laughs] Dr Kalidas, he saw that this boy has simply crammed. He... So where is Mr. Womanwant [?] so he could not understand Womanwant [laughs]. Then it was explained that he had so nicely crammed the whole. He had written "Roman one," "Roman one."

Devotee (2): [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Yes. And our... One of our teachers he was also... He told us one story in that class. At that time there was no electric fan. Electric fan, so there was hand driven fan. Big, big... When and by... [indistinct]? Pully, pully?

Hamsadūta: Pulley.

Prabhupada: Yes. Servant was engaged. So some professor, English professor. In those days all the professors were English. This is statement of my teacher. So he might have said, pankar hi cho. Panker means friend, hi cho means full of. The servant was a little flat, so the prof.., the pankar hi cho was go on with the fan. So in the notebook also.. He has written punkar hi cho, then when he was comparing with other class friends. "Hey what is this? Punkar hi cho." [Laughs]. And so there are many instances like that. Not now, Pradyumna has written, not known but somebody has written. So he has also composed, not known. He had no [indistinct].

Devotee (1): [indistinct]

Prabhupada: That if it is not to be mentioned. Not known. Don't try for any page number but he has written, "not known."

Devotee (1): [indistinct]

Prabhupada: The same pankar hi cho. That means this mechanical worker they are senseless. They do not use their senses. Less intelligent.

Devotee (1): [indistinct]

Prabhupada: [indistinct] yes. [Hindi]. [break]

Dictaphone and I am getting an impression. So if I hear about it I can get the same impression. So knowledge about this microphone, either I see or hear-it has the same balance.

Hamsadūta: But by, by seeing it...

Prabhupada: Just like suppose if you see some friend that he is such and such. His body is useless. Similarly the same description is given to you, you hear it, so the impression is not the same?

Hamsadūta: Yes, some of the time.

Prabhupada: But on the other hand all your senses are imperfect. So any impression you get by these senses they are imperfect. By exercising your senses, whatever knowledge...

Devotee (2): [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Eh?

Hamsadūta: Independently.

Prabhupada: Yes. Whatever knowledge you gather that is imperfect. Either you see.. But foolish people they give more stress on seeing. He does not know my seeing is also imperfect. That is his position. He wants to gives stress on seeing but he is ignorant that his seeing power is also defective. What he will do by seeing?

Just like Lord Caitanya when He was in Benares. Benares, Sanatana Gosvami came he asked, "Please give me a host. There is a Vaisnava bring him here." And Sanatana Gosvami was more than a month, he was walking on the.., On foot. He has no nice dress and there was hair, moustaches. And this Candrasekhara Acarya came back, "Oh I didn't see any Vaisnava there." "So there is no man?" "Yes there is a man but he is a... He appears to be a Moslem." So what is the value of his seeing?

Hamsadūta: Yes.

Prabhupada: Caitanya Mahaprabhu is seeing him, Vaisnava. He is seeing him as a Moslem. It's clear? So what is the father seeing, that hearing is power.., Most important. But Caitanya Mahaprabhu says that he is a Vaisnava. That is most powerful. By seeing he could not understand a Vaisnava. But by hearing he had actual appreciation of Sanatana. But hearing from Caitanya Mahaprabhu, that is the point. Therefore knowledge, hearing from authorized persons is all perfect. Not by seeing, not by touching, not by licking, not by touching. No. Anyway you lose your senses to get real experience, its defect. But if you simply hear from the right authority that is perfect. That is our profit going [?]. Our profit of knowledge therefore perfect.

Devotee (1): [indistinct]

Prabhupada: We are hearing from Krsna-about Krsna. Therefore our knowledge of God is perfect. We are not perfect but our knowledge is perfect because we are hearing from the Supreme Perfect. They do not understand. "So this man is like me imperfect, how he can say, 'perfect knowledge of Krsna, or God.'" That they cannot understand.

Hamsadūta: [indistinct] [break]

Prabhupada: This description is sruti-pramana, therefore as soon as there is evidence in the sruti, Vedas. According to Vedic system it is accepted, perfect.

Revatinandana: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Eh?

Revatinandana: [indistinct] was making yogurt. He had some milk that he had boiled and there was a bag on the table, a plastic bag [indistinct] and a thick white substance [indistinct].

Prabhupada: That's suns, then why so many combination of suns cannot make the night day?

Hamsadūta: They will say it is too far away.

Prabhupada: Eh? Even if it is to far away so many suns.

Devotee (1): And all of them bigger than ours.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Revatinandana: [indistinct] takes light and breaks it into it's respective colors.

Prabhupada:Hm.

Revatinandana: And you get from each Star a little different spectrum. [indistinct] spectrum is different [indistinct] different saw, different chemical arrangement made in Hawaii. They have sun. But when he told me then I could understand [indistinct] they have different types of mirrors. Each mirror reflects the light a little differently.

Prabhupada: We have got authority from Krsna. He says: naksatranam ahamsasi [Bg 10.21]. So this stars are just like moons, the light is reflected. If compared to the moon, why not in the star? He could have said, naksatranam ahamsūrya. He has not said. So I cannot take the so-called scientists more authoritive than Krsna. Our method is simple, we can challenge anyone, by hearing from Krsna... And so many millions of suns they cannot make the.. And one sun makes the.. So brilliant that all other planes or so-called suns are covered. They cannot be seen even.

Revatinandana: It was a good lesson because I was attached to that theory.

Prabhupada: Eh? There are many.

Revatinandana: Then I had to detach, once I was detached I could see that either way would make sence. But [indistinct] the Vedic authority [indistinct] light [indistinct] [break] [End]