Conversation – December 5, 1970, Indore

Devotee: Srila Prabhupada invited at Baba Bal Mukund and Vairagya-bhava Maharaja, had come to Indore from Bombay. On 3rd of December and he delivered lectures. The last two lectures recorded in the morning of the fourth and fifth. At the Gita Bhavan in Indore and the last speaking was kirtana [?] then in the room of Baba Bal Mukund. At the Gita Bhavan and just after the lecture on the fifth. Present now with His Divine Grace in Indore just now, Himavati and Hamsadūta and Revatinandana das brahmacari.

Prabhupada: ...[indistinct]. I am willing give me this nice foodstuff into my mouth. That means the part and parcel is healthy when he gives service to the whole body. Similarly, because you are part and parcel of...

[break] ...that is your [indistinct]. You'll have. You can adopt any other process. Suppose the finger catches one sweetmeat, if you think, if the finger thinks that we are puzzled why shall I give it to the stomach? Let me enjoy. It will not be able to enjoy. It will simply spoil.

Similarly we part and parcel..., the karmis, they are trying to enjoy themselves in this world. So their mistake. They cannot enjoy, therefore they are unhappy here. The jnanis they are rejecting this world, brahma satyam jagan mithya. So it is the hands business to take a sweetmeat and if it is robbed for personal enjoyment, it is waste of time. It will gives us, so I cannot enjoy therefore I stick to this, thrown away. That is not limited. But if the finger takes it and gives it to the stomach that is its real duty.

Similarly if you want to enjoy this world that is mistake. If you want to renounce this world, that is mistake. If you take this world for service of the Lord-that is enjoyment.

So what is your question about this? Mataji boliye [Hindi]. Do you follow what I said?

Mataji: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Eh?

Mataji: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Ah. So.

Indian (1): My question actually is about this thing.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Indian (1): Therefore as we grow old, service towards God.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Indian (1): [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Lul.

Indian (1): Lul.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Indian (1): And in that way he becomes too much selfish, in full.

Prabhupada: No, no that is not selfish.

Indian (1): [indistinct]

Prabhupada: No, you do not..., you did not understand. If we say there is a story parany indriyana in Hitopadesa. That the senses of the body they made a strike. That the stomach is eating simply and we are working. The leg said, "Oh I am walking," the hands said that, "I am doing this." The finger said, "I am." All the senses, just like now a days there is strike. So there was a strike they failed to fill the stomach. But the result was gradually they became weak.

The next conference on the matter, "Why you are becoming weak." Then they found that the only reason is that we did not serve the stomach. So let us again begin to serve the stomach. They become happy. Similarly the whole modern civilisation has revolted against God, so that become [indistinct]. If there is a relut[?] again to serve God, they will be happy. Otherwise there is no happiness. There is no peace.

Indian (1): Swami I have been to that [indistinct] Nagar. I met also some representatives of [indistinct] They told me then I asked him what makes you to come over here. Some thousand miles from their country. They told me that is a lot of disappointment in our country. I said [indistinct]. Just in their own [indistinct]

Prabhupada: But do you know your philosophy? You want to know but do you know what is your philosophy?

Indian (1): We have lost the spiritual. The spiritual [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Who?

Indian (1): [indistinct] what Gita is.

Prabhupada: Yes. Do you understand the Gita?

Indian (1): No I don't.

Prabhupada: Then?

Indian (1): Nobody can claim to understand it. We came to just try to understand it.

Prabhupada: Then how you will be taught? Talking on the Bhagavad-gita if you do not understand it?

Indian (1): [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Ah. So this is the point. That you cannot be aloof from the service of the Lord. If you do that then you will suffer. But if you be engaged in the transcendental loving service of the Lord, then you will be happy. This is the philosophy. Now if you do not understand this philosophy. I have already given you the example. Now what is your saying? What do you want to say about this things?

Indian (1): Swamiji. It is your own philosophy then one must sit down [indistinct] a particular [indistinct].

Prabhupada: No, no I sit down. You have to give service to the Lord, where is the question of sit down? Why do you say like that?

Indian (1): [indistinct] these things [indistinct] service to the God.

Prabhupada: Why not? If I say that you do this, all my disciples are doing. You do this, they are doing. That is service.

Indian (1): So we can't take ourselves [indistinct] representative of God. We can do what the God [indistinct]

Prabhupada: What you mean by representative of God? Do you know who is representative of God?

Indian (1): Nobody. We are all people others are either nobody [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Do you know what is the meaning of representative?

Indian (1): Representative means what God expects or what our...

Prabhupada: What God expects, you know?

Indian (1): God expects that we should be so much vigil. We should be of certain nature, if we can, we can do or follow our own soul we can be. We can try to become nearer to God by our good doings and we should not be so much…

Prabhupada: What is your good doings?

Indian (1): Good doings?

Prabhupada: What do you mean by good doings?

Indian (1): Not to hurt others.

Prabhupada: Then why you are killing animals?

Indian (1): We do not.

Prabhupada: Why don't you struggle. Give service to the Lord. At least you do something for God.

Indian (1): I don't take meat.

Prabhupada: You don't take meat but if you think that animals should not be. Slaughtered, if you do not understand any other philosophy, you can stop it. You can try. That is a struggle. Now to representative, to become representative of God you say that. You cannot say that you are representative of God. That was only [indistinct]. So whom do you accept as representative of God?

Indian (1): Simply given[?] [indistinct] God is the representative.

Prabhupada: Then how do you say, that you cannot claim yourself as representative.

Indian (1): It is not you! It is not you! You [indistinct] nobody can claim.

Prabhupada: That's all right. Why one does not claim? Why one cannot claim as representative of God? What is the reason?

Indian (1): Even God doesn't claim that he reveals God. Why you should claim that you are representative of God?

Prabhupada: Who? Who is that God? Who says, "I am not God." Who has done that?

Indian (1): Nobody says, "I am God."

Prabhupada: Eh?

Prabhupada: Nobody says, "I am God."

Prabhupada: Nobody says-but Krsna says.

Indian (1): Krsna. Krsna has told a different meaning.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Indian (1): Krsna…

Prabhupada: Do you know that meaning?

Indian (1): He said about the karma.

Prabhupada: What does he say? What does he say? Just quote from Bhagavad-gita.

Indian (1): He, He, He, He may claim to be God but you are so angry to be representative.

Prabhupada: Why not?

Indian (1): Tell you?

Prabhupada: Yes. You do not know. You do not know.

Indian (1): [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Yes. He said: na ca tasman manusyesu kascin me priya-krttamaḥ [Bg 18.69]. Whoever teaches the philosophy of Bhagavad-gita. Nobody is dearer than him. Therefore he is representative.

Devotee: Sarva-dharman parityajya.

Prabhupada: Mam ekam saranam. [Bg 18.66]. So Krsna says, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja-and we are preaching. Sarva-dharman parityajya-you just become Krsna conscious. So are you not representative? Are you not speaking on behalf of Krsna?

Indian (1): Yes.

Prabhupada: Then you have to agree. Representative means who speaks on behalf of Krsna. He is representative.

Indian (1): And one who follows.

Prabhupada: He is also representative. So just clear the idea who is representative. Everything is there in the Bhagavad-gita. Unfortunately busy, we do not read it carefully. Krsna says: sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja. Anyone who preaches this philosophy, he is representative of Krsna.

Devotee: Aham tvam sarva-papebhyo moksayisyami masucaḥ.

Prabhupada: That you become Krsna conscious, you will be happy. He is representative.

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupada: It is not very difficult task to become representative of Krsna or God. Simply you have to act. So all these boys and girls who are preaching Krsna consciousness, they are all representatives of Krsna. Because they are speaking the same thing. Suppose if I say, "I want a glass of water." And if some of you goes immediately, "Oh Swamiji wants a glass of water." Then you are the principal. You immediately take my interest. He is thirsty, immediately one glass of water should be supplied to him. That is my interest becomes your interest. Therefore you are representative. As soon as you take my interest, as your interest. Immediately you are representative.

Indian (2): You become [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Eh?

Indian (2): You become [indistinct]

Prabhupada: That is representative. This is intelligence. We have to know what God wants. And if we act according to that then we are representative. Not that God has to come here and give you a certificate, "Oh this is, this man is my representative." You are already representative, sarvataḥ pani-pada hasta [?] [Bg 13.14]. In Bhagavad-gita he has got everywhere his hands and legs. That means everywhere he has got representative. Everyone of us is representative because we are part and parcel but if I deny then it is maya. Actually I am representative, if I deny then no. "I don't care for Krsna," then I am in maya.

Devotee: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: So this Krishna Consciousness Movement is very scientific movement. Authorized movement.

Indian (2): Does it [indistinct] also?

Prabhupada: Don't you see, here in action?

Indian (2): No, you say that you follow this and you do this and do not do it.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Indian (2): This is something to propagate and to convert the God but to...

Prabhupada: But that is your business to canvass for God. That is representative. What is representative? He is canvassing for God. That is all. That is representative. What do you mean by representative? If he does not canvass for God what kind of representative? He is a bogus. You have to work for God that is your principles.

Devotee: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Eh?

Indian (2): From the hell to.

Prabhupada: I am not King of any society. First of all you try to understand, what is mean by representation of. Representative of God. Anyone may become representative of God. It does not mean Indian's have monopolised to become representative of God. Everyone can be.

Indian (2): [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Yes, everyone.. Krsna is the father of everyone, even the animals. Therefore there should be no distinction, that Indians should be representative of Krsna and not the Americans. This is not mentioned in any where, Bhagavad-gita.

In any species of life. Any form of life. I am the seed giving father. This is Bhagavad-gita. So we are preaching the philosophy of Bhagavad-gita, AS IT IS. Therefore we are representative of Krsna. Is there any difficulty to understand?

Indian (2): So is it necessary that one should renounce the world.

Prabhupada: Who says? Why do you put this question?

Indian (2): Like you have renounced all known.

Prabhupada: Raghunatha has not renounced, he is a grhastha. He has got his wife but the husband and wife they are worshipped.

Indian (2): [indistinct] or representative they renounce the world. They leave their family.

Prabhupada: Renounced the world means renounce to enjoy the world. That is renunciation. I am renounced but I am sitting in a comfortable seat, even you cannot sit at your home. So what does it mean that I am renounced? But I am sitting here for service of Krsna that's all. I do not claim that He is mine.

Indian (2): Can we not serve the God?

Prabhupada: Why not? Everyone can.

Indian (2): But the [indistinct] so many people they say you will have to renounce [indistinct] to become Svami.

Prabhupada: That is. That is a nonsense. He does not know what is God or what is.

Indian (2): [indistinct] they have put on a different sort of dress. They are looking like.

Prabhupada: They may do whatever they may do. You do not do it.

Indian (2): No it is necessary.

Prabhupada: No. It is not necessary. It is not necessary you can do in this dress. If you have got any objection that is cleanliness. You should like to keep your hair. They feel comfortable by giving up this hair. They had also very big, big hair and now they're feeling comfortable. It is a question of facility. That is not very important thing.

Indian (2): [indistinct]

Prabhupada: That you can understand the experience was very bad.

Indian (2): [indistinct]

Prabhupada: That is not very intelligent question.

Indian (2): No [indistinct] [break]

Prabhupada: Established United Nations organisation. Hasti [?] and they are. They are seeing actually there is no. Simply increasing fighting.

Indian (2): [indistinct]

Prabhupada: And therefore when there were. Whenever there is fighting the young men are called. So therefore they are disappointed. What is this? They speak of thieves, nonsense and they are always calling us for fighting. Is it not the cause of disappointment? There is no practical proposition by all these rascals scientists and politicians. They are simply bluffing. Therefore young men have become disappointed. So this bluffing business should be stopped. Genuine things should be taken. That is Bhagavad-gita.

Indian (2): But Swamiji [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Eh?

Indian (2): Only [indistinct]

Prabhupada: No, why you respect science? They are doing practically.

Indian (2): Here?

Prabhupada: That's all.

Indian (2): [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Eh?

Indian (2): [indistinct]

Hamsadūta: We are not sitting idle. Just chanting. [indistinct]

Prabhupada: [break] So we are not concerned with the requirement. We are concerned with the teachings, teachings of Bhagavad-gita.

Indian (2): [indistinct] Bhagavad-gita.

Indian (1): [indistinct]

Prabhupada: My question is, that you are discussing Bhagavad-gita, about 25 years and what is your practical result? That is my question.

Indian (1): [indistinct] Bhagavad-gita.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Indian (1): [indistinct] Bhagavad-gita.

Prabhupada: What is that?

Indian (1): [indistinct]

Audience: [Laughter]

Prabhupada: Just see the position. Now you understand?

Indian (2): Yes.

Prabhupada: The same thing which I explained. That Bhagavad-gita means minus Krsna. One, zero, zero, zero, zero, that's a balance and without that one simply zeros. Imagine however any number of zeros their value is zero. Similarly Bhagavad-gita without Krsna consciousness it is all zero. That means for the last 35 years you are dealing with zeros. I must tell you frankly. You do not know what is Krsna... And Bhagavad-gita means Krsna. So you have carefully avoided Krsna.

Devotee: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: [Laughter] Eh? That is the going on everywhere. There are so many Gita Bhavan's all over the country. Where there is no understanding of Krsna. And Bhagavad-gita Krsna is canvassing, I am this, I am this, I am this, I am this, I am this. So just try to understand what kind of Bhagavad-gita you are reading. There are so many scholars of Bhagavad-gita all over the world in institutions for preaching Bhagavad-gita. But everywhere I go-minus Krsna. Finished business.

So this is the first time in the history of the world at least that we are preaching Krsna is everything in the Bhagavad-gita... Here also the same thing there is one idol speaker and so many dolls of different demigods and none of the members practically know thoroughly what is Krsna. Neither the Krsna's instruction is followed: mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg 18.66]. If one was to follow mam ekam krsna, then why so many dolls and pictures?

[Pause]

And we have started this Krishna Consciousness Movement-all the members they do not know anything but Krsna. You can see practically. Just see the difference of preaching of this Krishna Consciousness Movement and others dealing with Bhagavad-gita. Now try to understand.

Indian (2): [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Eh?

Indian (2): Swamiji [indistinct]

Prabhupada: They are not doing anything. Neither understand. Do they understand what is Krsna? They simply take advantage of the popular book of Bhagavad-gita, that's all. Gandhi dealt in politics. Of course even in Bhagavad-gita there is politics also. But he wanted to introduce nonviolence. He was understood to be a great devotee of Bhagavad-gita. But where is Bhagavad-gita in nonviolence?

Indian (2): [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Krsna you'll see so many pictures in our book. Krsna is engaged in violence. So many demons are being killed. Personally He's killing. And He says: paritranaya sadhūnamn vinasaya ca duskrtaḥ [Bg 4.8]. "To kill the duskrtaḥ," and He is practically doing that. So where is the question of Krsna's life, nonviolence? When He was child He committed violence, immediately.

Devotee: [indistinct]

Indian (2): [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Not different cinemas.

Indian (2): [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Sohi-vit[?]. And in. And His enemies also found in the very beginning of His coming out from the womb of His mother. Kamsa was ready to kill Him. So He has got enemies from the very beginning of His life and He has begun killing from the beginning of His life. All the enemies He perturbed. So how you can prove that Krsna was nonviolent? But Gandhi took that, "I shall prove nonviolence from Bhagavad-gita." That means he misled, Bhagavad-gita.

If you want to do something which is not, then you should misinform people. This is this, this is that. If you receive a wood and if you want to prove that it is gold. Then you have to make some propaganda, false propaganda. That's all. Because actually it is wood. So how can you prove that it is gold? That means you have to make some false propaganda and make wood so they will accept it as gold. Similarly Krsna is full of violence and if from the life of Krsna you want to prove nonviolence. That means you have to make false propaganda. That is being done.

So if you are actually… My request to you is that for the last 45 years I may tell you frankly that they are simply wasted. If you want actually to derive some benefit from Bhagavad-gita, then this now here. Don't be misguided. That is my request. Why you should be misguided? When you have got this genuine knowledge of God as Bhagavad-gita. Why you should be misguided? Why you should be allowed to be misguided? That is my request. People are searching after God, you're doubtful about God, in the presence of Bhagavad-gita. How much foolishness it is.

If the thing's present and if you say, "I don't find it." Then how much foolishness it is? If the light is there and if you say, "I am in darkness. I do not find the light." Then you become.. What is called? Owl. Owl, although there is day and there is sun, he does not know. That there is sun and there is light. It is owl's philosophy. Frog philosophy, owl's philosophy. Eh? Owl in the presence of shine, sun, he close eyes and he says, "No, there is no sun. There is no light." In the name of Bhagavad-gita this owl philosophy is going on. And sometimes frog philosophy is going on.

Indian (2): [Laughter] naturally.

Prabhupada: Yes. The frog philosophy, you know?

Indian (2): Yes.

Prabhupada: What is that?

Indian (2): The well is the whole world.

Prabhupada: No frog philosophy. Do you know frog?

Indian (2): That I know.

Prabhupada: Eh? That if you. It has got a philosophy. That is called frog philosophy. What is that?

Indian (2): It doesn't consider anything else than the well.

Prabhupada: That is the well. Yes. He is trying to understand Atlantic ocean within the well. So what he will understand? He's simply measuring, "Ah, Atlantic ocean may be so big, so big, so big and then he becomes... What is called? Puzzled. You see? And similarly people are thinking, "I am God, I am God, I am God." Now this philosophy is going on. Somebody is saying, "God is dead. There is no God, or gone." And somebody is saying, "I am God, you are God, everyone God." So practically the same thing. This is frog philosophy. And in the presence of God if one says, "That there is no God." That is called owl's philosophy.

So we should not be misled by this owl's philosophy and frog's philosophy. We should follow the real philosophy and then it will be benefited. Why these people say, "There is no God?" In the presence of Krsna. What is their reason? Can you say? Why people say, "That there is no God?" Can you say? Can anyone of you say? What do you think?

Mataji: [indistinct] I.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Mataji: I personally think [indistinct] name Krsna or Rama [indistinct] they are the Supreme Power [indistinct] Krsna.

Prabhupada: You know that Supreme Power?

Mataji: Yes.

Prabhupada: It is not Krsna?

Mataji: [indistinct] Krsna [indistinct] Krsna. But then [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Do you accept Krsna as God?

Mataji: [indistinct] God [indistinct] the Supreme Power is Krsna. Whatever name [indistinct] but there is a power.

Prabhupada: I mean to say, that have you got any objection to accept Krsna as the Supreme Power?

Mataji: No, no objection.

Prabhupada: That is my point.

Mataji: I accept [indistinct].

Prabhupada: [Laughs] there is somebody. That's nice proposition. But if that somebody is Krsna whether you have got any objection? Not that I am certain somebody.

Mataji: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: To say, "Somebody must be my father?" Because I am born. Why I do not know who is my father? Is that very good intelligence? Your proposition.

Mataji: [indistinct] father.

Prabhupada: That is a fact, that is a fact.

Mataji: [indistinct] I have father.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Mataji: And my father made me [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Yes. So you do not know that. Then your knowledge is imperfect. If you simply think, "Yes because I am born. There is. Must be there is father." That's nice. But I do not know the name of father. That's very good intelligence?

Mataji: No, no.

Prabhupada: Then?

Mataji: I have [indistinct].

Prabhupada: No first of all you answer this.

Mataji: [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Do you accept that there is a father? Suppose you are born a posthumous child, you have never seen your father. Since the birth. But when you are grown-up you know there must be some father otherwise how I am born? But if you say I do not know the name of my father. Is that very good intelligence?

Mataji: No it is not. [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Then? So how you can say that there is some God but I do not know what is his name.

Mataji: No I know his name. [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Eh?

Indian (2): [indistinct] how can you say that [indistinct]

Prabhupada: No, you know from your mother. You might have not seen your father but your mother knows exactly what is your father. Therefore you have to learn from your mother what is the name of your father. You may be posthumous child while you are in the womb of your mother your father might have died. I am giving an example. So after your birth you might have not seen your father but that does not mean you should not know about your father. Does it mean that because you not seeing your father you could not know anything and everything of your father? Is that a good philosophy?

Mataji: No.

Prabhupada: Similarly you might have not seen God but you must know everything of God. That is intelligence. Then how you can know it? That is the point. Just like you have to know from a reliable authority your mother. Who knows actually what is… Who is your father. You cannot know about your father from any other man. Except your mother. If your mother says that your father was like this, your father's teacher [?] This is the coat of your father. And he was such and such nice gentleman his name was this, he was doing like that.

Then you know everything even though you have not seen your father. So similarly, it is not necessary that you have to see Krsna or God personally. But there is a source to know about Him. That is the Vedas. You cannot evade to understand about your father simply because you have not seen. That is not argument. You cannot say that because you have not seen God therefore I do not believe in God or I do not know anything about God. That is not intelligence.

Mataji: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Yes.

Mataji: [indistinct] there is mother to answer the question right. But here there are so many, I mean to say…

Prabhupada: What? No. There cannot be so many.

Mataji: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Yes.

Mataji: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: I have discovered it. [?]

Mataji: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Mother means-right mother.

Mataji: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Mother does not mean false mother.

Mataji: No, no I don't mean that.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Mataji: But how do we know [indistinct] but we are [indistinct] don't know. Who should answer the question if he is disentitled.

Prabhupada: Yes. Your answer to your question is very intelligent. Therefore we call vedamata. Vedamata have you have this word?

Mataji: No.

Prabhupada: Veda. The knowledge of Vedas is considered as mother.

Mataji: Yes that I know.

Prabhupada: So you have to learn from the Vedas. Vedamata. Just like you learn about your father from your real mother. Similarly the original father Krsna, you have to learn from the Vedas. Because Krsna says, vedais ca sarvair aham eva vedyam [Bg 15.15]. The Vedas gives. Knowledge about Me. Through Veda one has to learn Krsna. Therefore we take Vedas and the followers of Vedanta and the commentary on Vedanta. Then you know what is God. Vedanta says that the father God is the supreme father who has begotten everything, janmady asya yataḥ [Vedanta Sūtra 1.1.2].

From whom everything has taken birth. Just like father gives birth to the child. Or the state or the anything in the family. Similarly the Parabrahma, Supreme Brahma is He who has begotten everything. All these living entities, this material world-and that is explained in the Bhagavad-gita. That these five elements; bhūmir apo 'nalo vayuḥ khambuddhir mano eva..., iti bhinna prakrtir astadha [Bg 7.4].

Me, that is Krsna's. And again he says: apareyam itas tv viddhi me prakrtim param jiva-bhūtam maha-baho yayedam dharyate jagat [Bg 7.5]. There is another prakrti, that is jiva. So what is this material world? These five elements, mind intelligence and the jiva. That's all. And these things are prakrti of Krsna, wife or stri of Krsna. And Krsna is the father. And prakrti is the mother and everything is born out of Krsna and this prakrti.

I am the seed giving father. So how you cannot [break]... simply fighting, "Oh, I am Hindu and you are Moslem. Your religion is bad, my religion is better." You see? What you have learned from your religion? What is the principal of religion? There is none. Dharmam tu saksad bhagavat-pranitam [SB 6.3.19] that Bhagavata says.

Simply, religion means the course of God. That is religion. There is no God, God is dead, God is impersonal. What does it mean by the course? That you make your own course? And that is accepted as religion. They bring forward some artificial avataras and everyone is bluffed. In this way the whole religious principles are being spoiled in the world. So we have to fight against that. That is Krsna consciousness. So don't give any credit to any person because he has deviated from the religious principles. Religious principles means to obey the orders of God-that is religion. They do not know what is God or what is avatara of God. Even there is no other they do not. They do not obey. They disobey. And still they claim that I am guru. Nobody is perfect.

So our mission is very grave and it should be act sincerly and then we get power from Krsna. If we act sincerly as representative of Krsna then we will feel His power. So generally we utilize religion as a means of livelihood. That is going on. Eh? That is going on... Anywhere all over the world, still the natural tendency, krsna-bhakti nitya-siddha, krsna-bhakti [Madhya 22.107]. Affection for Krsna or God there is everywhere. And, therefore whenever there is some religious talk people gather, people like it. But these leaders, religious leaders they fight, for their livelihood. Therefore it is degraded.

Hamsadūta: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Eh?

Hamsadūta: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: That they… They do not know. They are not bad men. I can can understand that old man. He is not a bad man and this, what is called? Bhogaji, bhogaji, he also is not a bad man. But he's not…They are not properly guided. They have learned some hodgepodge. That's all. That is going on everywhere. Just like yesterday the two boys came.

Hamsadūta: Yes.

Prabhupada: And [indistinct] everything. For the last 45 years. [Laughter] they are conducting [indistinct] and I tell him. [indistinct], that you do not know anything. And they admit it. How they can know? Unless they hear from the representative of Krsna they cannot understand. It is not possible. That is going on all over the world... And the people say that's nice. Then you are the [indistinct]. Challenging like that, "Then are you the only representative of Krsna present?" So I said, "Yes." Because. Because I know because I am sincere representative, representing my Guru Maharaja. Therefore I am clear representative of Krsna. That's all... That telling they cannot do...

[Pause]... Now begin. [End]