Evening Darśana – May 14, 1977, Rishikesh

Rsabhadeva says, 'My dear boys, you don't spoil your life'

Prabhupada: Fifth Canto, fifth chapter.

Tamala Krsna: Fifth Canto, fifth chapter? I don't have the first volume, Srila Prabhupada. We only have the second volume of Fifth Canto with us.

Prabhupada: No other Bhagavatam?

Tamala Krsna: We do. We have Prahlada Maharaja teachings, Seventh Canto.

Prabhupada: No, Bhagavata original?

Tamala Krsna: Original Bhagavatam.

Prabhupada: Then?

Tamala Krsna: Panḍitji might have taken.

Prabhupada: Ask Panditji.

Upendra: Is he downstairs?

Tamala Krsna: I don't think so.

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Upendra: Panḍitji's not here.

Prabhupada: Why he does not remain here?

Tamala Krsna: He does his work at the Svargasrama. He's supposed to come here to explain. He's been coming every day.

Prabhupada: You recite that verse, nūnam pramattaḥ kurute vikarma yad indriya-pritaya aprnoti [SB 5.5.4]. The instruction of King Rsabhadeva to His sons. He said that "This body, human body..." Ayam dehaḥ. Nayam deho deha-bhajam nrloke [SB 5.5.1]. Deha. Everyone has got deha, body. In the Bhagavad-gita it is said, tatha dehantara-praptiḥ [Bg 2.13]:

"After this body is finished, another body." Because atma, na jayate na mriyate va, nityaḥ sasvato 'yam na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg 2.20]. Atma is eternal. There is no birth, no death. Nitya, eternal; sasvataḥ puranaḥ, the oldest; and na hanyate hanyamane sarire. Therefore this is the problem. The atma has no birth, no death, and neither he is dead after the annihilation of this body. But we are put into this condition. We are not put, but we have put ourself. We are putting ourself in this condition of repetition of birth and death. Bhūtva bhūtva praliyate [Bg 8.19]. Once we take birth, and again we annihilate this body.

So Rsabhadeva says, "This ignorance of self-realization must be removed." Therefore He says, ayam dehaḥ: "This body should not be misused like animals," ahara-nidra-bhaya-maithuna [Hitopadesa 25]. This is the advice. Ayam dehaḥ nrloke. He especially mentions, nrloke: "in the human form of body." The dog, cat, or doglike man, catlike man, they may remain in ignorance. They have no chance. There are uncivilized men. Although they have got two hands, two legs, but because there is no knowledge, they have been described as dvi-pada-pasu. They are animal with two legs. Other animals, they have got four legs, and this rascal has got two legs. That is the difference. So ayam dehaḥ, this body, na ayam dehaḥ nrloke... Nayam dehaḥ nrlo..., deha-bhajam. Deha-bhajam. This is also very significant. There are innumerable living entities. Jiva-bhagaḥ sa vijneyaḥ sa anantyaya kalpate [Cc Madhya 19.140]. These jivas, living entities, part and parcel of God, anantyaya kalpate. Just like the sunshine. What is the sunshine? The sunshine, this is very atomic parts of the sun brightness. They are individual, but they are combined. We see one shining. So similarly, God is compared with the sun, and we are atomic particles of God-the same thing in a very small quantity. Kesagra-sata-bhagasya satadha kalpitasya ca. You take the tip of the hair and divide it into ten thousand parts, and that one part is the formation of the jiva.

You cannot count how many there are. Now these, some of the jivas... Not all of them. Majority of them, they live in the spiritual world, just like majority of the population of the state, they live outside the prison house. Prison house means some of the citizens who are criminals, they are put into the jail. Similarly, these living entities who are criminals, means who have rebelled against the order of God, they are sent here, in this material world. So they are suffering, one term after another. Therefore here is the chance, ayam dehaḥ nrloke. In the form of human body you can get out of it. Tyaktva deham punar janma [Bg 4.9].

This is chance. And therefore Rsabhadeva says, "My dear boys, you don't spoil your life." "I am working and enjoying. I am not spoiling." "No, this kind of working is done by the cats and hogs." Kastan kaman arhate viḍ-bhujam ye [SB 5.5.1]: "For sense gratification the hogs and dogs, they also work very hard and then enjoy senses. So this body is not meant for that purpose." You are thinking that you are working so hard, karmi, and big, big skyscraper building and nice motorcar, nice roads. Electricity you have discovered. You are very advanced. Rsabhadeva says, "This kind of advancement is..."

[break] ...motorcar. "Gow! Gow! Gow! Gow!" Therefore He warns, "No, no, no, no. This is not civilization." Nayam deho deha-bhajam nrloke kastan kaman [SB 5.5.1]. "So much hard labor for sense gratification? This is not good." Then? What it is meant for? Tapa divyam.

So human life is meant for tapasya, self-realization, atma-suddhi. Atma can be purified from the contamination of the material modes of nature by tapasya. That is real civilization. Tapo divyam putraka yena suddhyet sattvam. Your existence will be purified. Now your existence is not purified. Therefore you have to accept birth and death, old age and disease. It is not purified. So here is the chance to purify your existence. Tapo divyam putraka yena suddhyet sattvam yasmad brahma-saukhyam anantam [SB 5.5.1]. Brahman means the greatest, unlimited. You are hankering after happiness, but if you purify your existence, then you get unlimited happiness of Brahman. Anantam: "There is no end." Here, whatever happiness you are getting, that is not unlimited. Limited. That limited happiness is available in the life of cats and dogs also. So the human life is meant for tapasya. Tapo divyam putraka yena suddhyet sattvam yasmad brahma-saukhyam anantam.

So this tapasya can be practiced... Mahat-sevam dvaram ahur vimukteḥ [SB 5.5.2]. You have to render your service to mahat, mahat, mahatma. And who is mahatma? Mahatmanas tu mam partha daivim prakrtim asritaḥ, bhajanty ananya-manasaḥ [Bg 9.13]. This is mahatma. Krsna says. Sa mahatma sudurlabhaḥ.

One who has understood Krsna-"Vasudeva is everything"-he is mahatma. Sa mahatma. So that is recommended. Mahat-sevam dvaram ahur vimukteḥ [SB 5.5.2]. If you get the chance of getting such mahatma, then try to give him service. Become his servant. Then your path of liberation will be open. And tamo-dvaram yositam sahgi-sahgam: those who are after sense gratification, if you associate with them, then you are going to the darkness. Two ways are open: ahur vimukteḥ and dvaram, tamo-dvaram. Now make your choice, "In which way we shall go: in this way or that way?"

Everything is given, information, in the Bhagavad-gita and all other sastras. Bhagavad-gita is the gist of all Vedas and Upanisads, Vedanta. Vedanta-krd vedanta-vit. Krsna is vedanta-vit and vedanta-krt. Krsna, in His incarnation as Vyasadeva, He has compiled the Vedanta-sūtra. He has recommended also in the Bhagavad-gita, brahma-sūtra-padais caiva hetumadbhir viniscitaiḥ [Bg 13.5]. Brahma-sūtra-padaiḥ, everything is established very reasonably. So Krsna is speaking Vedanta-sūtra. Veda means knowledge; anta means the end of knowledge. The end of knowledge is to understand Krsna. Bahūnam janmanam ante jnanavan [Bg 7.19]. Man of knowledge is jnanavan. So ordinary jnanavan, little knowledge, they cannot understand. Yatatam api siddhanam [Bg 7.3]. But a person cultivating knowledge for many lives, he can understand, vasudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahatma sudurlabhaḥ [Bg 7.19]. So Vasudeva personally explaining Himself, "I am like this; I am like that." Why should we not understand? What is the objection? Boliye. [Answer?]

Indian man (1): There should be no objection.

Prabhupada: But people are not following Vasudeva. They are creating new, new Vasudeva. And somebody told that Krsna is an ordinary man? Trivikrama Maharaja or somebody told me. Avajananti mam mūḍha manusim tanum asritam [Bg 9.11].

Tamala Krsna: Yeah, the people who are coming in at night are saying that.

Prabhupada: Hmm.

In order to come to the position of that mahatma, one has to render service to Vasudeva. Vasudeve bhagavati bhakti-yogaḥ prayojitaḥ. Then jnana-vairagya automatically will be manifested. Janayaty asu vairagyam. Real life means vairagya. Just like these boys known as hippies, they are trying for vairagya. They are coming from countries, very opulent, rich father, mother, but they do not like; inclined to vairagya, renunciation. But renunciation must be based on knowledge, jnana-vairagya. So that they are lacking. They are not fixed up. But there is a tendency of vairagya. Is it not? That is also good. [Transl. Renunciation is not taking place. It is very difficult. Can't give up.] Therefore, according to Vedic civilization, there is compulsory vairagya. As soon as one is fifty years old, he must give up family life. Pancasordhvam vanam vrajet. Aiye. [Transl. Please come. They don't give up only. Until they are shot dead. Gandhi was a Mahatma, but he did not quit politics. When he was shot by a gun then what he can do? He had to quit. This is the position.] Jawaharlal Nehru, up to the end of his life he wanted to remain prime minister.

[Transl. Govinda Vallabha Panth? Doesn't want to quit only. They are forcibly dragged by Yamaraja. Then they quit. They don't think that they have to quit. If by quiting ten or twenty years earlier they can achieve knowledge and renunciation, that is intelligence. You have to quit at any cost. If you want to remain a big man for ever, that is not going to happen. mrtyuḥ sarva-haras caham [Bg 10.34]

[Transl. God will come one day in the form of death and snatch away everything. Finished. Your home, your estate, your business, your bank balance. sarva hara, everything take away. Everyone knows this that everything will be taken away by force. Then why not give it up voluntarily ten or twenty years before? Learn what is knowledge and renunciation. What Lord Vasudeva is saying, let me have a] practical application [Transl. of that in my life. That is not important.

[Transl. And taking big, big attempt to enjoy sense gratification is alright! Rsabhadeva says, na sadhu manye [SB 5.5.4] This is not good. Why? We are earning money, this is not good? Not proper? Rsabhadeva says, this is not good. Why? Because, all you will get is, asann api klesada asa deha, [SB 5.5.4] this body you have got as a result of your karma, again you will have to accept another body. And as soon as you get a body, klesada, only miseries. Although this body will not stay, asan, ten, twenty, twenty-five, little more, may be fifty, sixty years, asann api, for a short time.

[Transl. But as long as it will stay, it will give you miseries. Many types of miseries. Try to understand this. asann api klesada asa deha. [pause] You see, nowadays the yogic process is taught so that the body can stay fit and strong, and the mind can remain fixed up. But what is use of that? You must give up the body. Rather you teach some yoga system so that the body is will not be ruined. That is not possible. That is possible only by worshiping the Supreme Lord.]

Indian man: [Transl. The mind will be controlled.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. What is the use of it?]

Indian man: [Transl. So that devotional service can be rendered properly.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Devotional service is not dependent on anything.] ahaituky apratihata. That is bhakti. [Transl. If devotional service is dependent on some material activities then it is not pure devotional service. Pure devotional service,

[Transl. so pure devotional service, it is not that because I have jnana therefore I have developed devotional service, or because I have mystic perfection therefore I have got devotional service. No. No.]

Indian man: [Transl. If one has, then it must have developed from jnana?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. No.]

Indian man: [Transl. Not even from jnana?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. No. What jnana did Hanuman have? He was an animal.]

Indian man: [Transl. He had full surrender.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. There are many instances like that. He was not a Vedantist! Ramacandra asked him "go and bring medicine from the mountain" He thought "how to find the medicine, let me take the whole mountain." Just imagine? He then said "my Lord, kindly find the medicine You need." Simply because of his service attitude Bajrangaji is being worshiped even today. bhakti, jnana, vairagya anavrtam, not from jnana, vairagya. But rather jnana and vairagya are dependent on bhakti.] Without bhakti, jnana is never sufficient, but bhakti does not depend... ahaituky apratihata. It cannot be checked. [Transl. When the Supreme Lord is personally giving knowledge, tesam evanukampartham aham ajnana-jam tamaḥ nasayamy [Bg 10.11] Then where is the question of his ignorance? Where is the need for him to separately endeavor for knowledge?] Bhagavan is within. Īsvaraḥ sarva-bhūtanam hrd-dese 'rjuna tisthati [Bg 18.61]. And He assures... [Transl. To show a special favor to a devotee, tesam evanukampartham aham ajnana-jam tamaḥ nasayamy then where is ignorance for him? It is wrong to say that the devotees are ignorant. Actually the devotees alone possess the real knowledge. Because they know, vasudevaḥ sarvam iti sa mahatma [Bg 7.19]. [Transl. It is wrong to assume that after attaining knowledge one attains bhakti. brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannatma na socati na kahksati [Bg 18.54]

The so-called jnani, he wants to become liberated and become one with the Supreme-kahksati. When actually one is self-realized, na kahksati or no hankering. Yogi kahksati or no hankering. [Transl. He wants mystic perfection. He wants to show magic. So kanksati. One who is real self realized, he is na kanksati or free from hankering. Who is he? mad-bhaktim labhate param. samaḥ sarvesu bhūtesu mad-bhaktim labhate param. [Bg 18.54] One has to surpass these stages. The karmis are lamenting "such and such things we don't have, such and such things we had but we have lost. And the jnanis, yogis, they are kanksati or hankering. "We want liberation, we want mystic perfection". So that is not brahma-bhūtaḥ stage. That is a material platform, a covering of dry knowledge and renunciation. Is that right? When one is in the platform of brahma-bhūtaḥ, then why there is hankering?]

Indian man: [Transl. Then what should we desire?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Han?]

Indian man: [Transl. Who should we desire for?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. What is natural for us.] Bhagavan is the Supreme. We are part and parcel. So I have already given you the example, these fingers, part and parcel of the body. The only desire should be how to serve the body. That is self interest. [Transl. They work in so many ways. Bring oil, they bring. They hold food. But they don't say "We will eat". Just bring food, that's their desire. They think "let us remain healthy so that we carry food to the mouth of the Supreme Lord." This is their desire. Now we are thinking we will eat the best food. When this desire will change that we will not eat, but we will feed the Supreme Lord. That desire is welcome.] Then where is that picture? The gopis are pushing Radharani to Krsna? [Transl. This is the picture. You read what is written there?]

Indian man (1): Krsna likes Radha-Krsna.

Prabhupada: No, no, no.

Tamala Krsna: No, no, no, no.

Indian man (1): Radharani, sorry.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Indian man (1): Therefore all the cowherd girls are trying to push Her to Krsna.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Indian man (1): Krsna likes Radharani.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Indian man (1): Therefore all the cowherd girls are trying to push Her to Krsna.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Indian man (1): [Transl. Radharani is very dear to Krsna. So all the gopis are pushing Her forward to Krsna.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. What happens in the world? They become jealous.] "Oh? Krsna likes Her?" They become envious. But here: "Oh? Krsna likes Her? All right."

Indian man (1): To please Krsna.

Prabhupada: Yes. The purpose is to please Krsna.

Indian man (1): [Transl. In order to please Krsna the gopis are pushing Radhikaji forward. Krsna will be pleased. So Maharajaji says,] I am explaining in Hindi [to another guest]. [Transl. Krsna has to be pleased. Krsna has to be served.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Your question was what to desire? This is the desire. How Krsna will be happy. The whole atmosphere of Vrndavana is how Krsna will be happy. Yasodamayi wants that, Nanda Maharaja wants that, the cowherd boys want that, the cows want that, the calves want, the trees want, the water wants, everyone wants Krsna be the center.] That is Vrndavana. That is described in Caitanya-caritamrta, that... Come in. Atmendriya-priti-vancha tare bali kama . [Transl. This is the difference between kama and prema. They look similar.] The gopis' lila with Krsna... [Transl. We see in this world there are many debauchees who enjoy with many girls.]

Indian man (1): That is kama.

Prabhupada: [Transl. What is the difference? Here] the desire is "How Krsna will be happy." [Transl. And kama means how I will be happy.]

Indian man: [Transl. Very good. To please Krsna is called prema, and to satisfy our senses is called kama. So kama and prema are not same. There is distinction. When one satisfies Krsna that is prema, and when we gratify our senses that is kama]

Prabhupada: [Transl. That which is going on in this world in the name of prema, like a man and a woman, both of them want "How I will become happy." The moment their personal sense gratification is obstructed, there is divorce. That is called kama. In] the Western countries [Transl. there are so many cases of divorce. As soon as there is dissatisfaction of lusty desires, they split. Finished.]

Indian man (1): That is all sense gratification.

Prabhupada: That's all. There is no prema. There cannot be any prema within this material world. All kama. [Transl. All kama. The jnanis also, they want salvation. That is also kama. They don't care how Krsna can be happy. The yogis, they want "How we can achieve mystic perfection. Show some magic. Many people will come to us." That is also kama. And devotional service unto the Supreme Lord is prema.]

[Transl. The devotee prays, "My Lord, You behave with me as you please, but still You are the Lord of my life. yatha tatha ... A debauchee does not behave properly with his wife, but the wife says "You behave as you like, but I don't know anyone else except you. That is prema.]

Indian man (1): This is prema.

Prabhupada: [Transl. Don't want? "Okay, let us divorce. Finish. All over.] This picture has appealed to me, this picture, "Krsna likes Radharani. Push Her." [Transl. The Supreme Lord also wants it. sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam [Bg 18.66] Surrender to Me. I will give you shelter.] This is prema, in the beginning of prema. [Transl. That is an opportunity to the process of devotional service. One is taught, "Look, here is the Lord's arca-mūrti. You decorate Him with your own hands. Prepare nice dress, nice flower garland. tan-mandira, sri-vigraharadhana-nitya-nana [Sri Gurv-astaka 3] Every day you worship the Deity by decorating Him in various ways and offering Him foodstuff. tan-mandira-marjanadau. And cleanse His temple very nicely." Anybody can do it. There is no need of education. Only one has to be taught. "Rise in the morning, offer mahgala-arati to the Supreme Lord and sweep and wash His temple. Then you decorate Him. You offer palatable foodstuff to the Lord." Whole day.]

Indian man: [Transl. From morning to night dedicate all your activities to the service of the Deity. That's what Maharajaji is saying. You offer mahgala-arati in the morning, Offer foodstuff to Him, decorate the Deity very nicely, Dress Him beautifully. In this way engage all your activities in the service of the Lord.]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. This is been spoken in Hindi.]

Indian man: [Transl. So much noise.]

Prabhupada: sravanam kirtanam visnoḥ smaranam ….arcanam. This is called arcanam. arcanam. arca-mūrti-seva. [Transl. In order to accept our service the Supreme Personality of Godhead, arca-avatara, has appeared as the Deity form. The foolish people will say "Look, how they are worshiping stone!" As if they are very learned! "patthar pūje hari mile to mai pūju pahaḍa or if by worshiping stone I attain Hari then I will worship a hill." [Poet Kabira]. Just see! Big, big acaryas have estabilished big, big temples, for worshiping stone? Only foolish people speak like that. Some say "What is the need of going to the temple? God is everywhere. If God is everywhere then why He is not in the temple? They mean to say that God is everywhere except in the temple. Such a big fool! If God is everywhere then He is present also in the temple. It's true that God is everywhere. anḍantara-stha-paramanu-cayantara-stham [Bs 5.35] That is right. But one who has not yet come to that realization, he has to go to the temple. Look, here is God. And God is actually there. Worship Him, decorate Him, cleanse His temple.]

Indian man: [Transl. Hold festival.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Hold festival. Honor His remnants prasada. This is our Indian process. If you visit Jagannath temple you will see they offer food to the Lord fifty-six times a day, even today. Not that just offer Him some cardamom seeds. Whoever visits can avail Prasada. May be you have to buy, but you will get. It's Prasada. Ten to twenty thousand people go there every day and buy Prasada whenever they want. Dal, rice, subji, puri, everything. Even today this is current at the Jagannath temple. This is the procedure of our temple. Prasada is available all the time.]

[Transl. This is the duty of a Guru to teach all this. Worship the Lord's Deity form very nicely. Let the temple always remain alive with offerings, aratis, cleanliness, kirtan. sravanam kirtanam visnoḥ smaranam. Introduce all these things in your temples. All the time. Not that you have little lecture in the morning and that's it. kirtaniyaḥ sada hariḥ.]

Indian man: [Transl. But Maharaja, we have to go to the office, someone has to attend his business…]

Prabhupada: [Transl. If not all, everybody is not going to the office?]

Indian man: [Transl. Not everyone.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. The brahmana doesn't need to go to the office. Become a brahmana. The sūdras go to the office. True! paricaryatmakam karma sūdrasyapi svabhava-jam [Bg 18.44] Those who earn their livelihood by working for others, they are sūdras. You will have to consult sastra. It is not sūdra's job, it is brahmana's job. Therefore the brahmanas are given the duty of arcana. If a brahmana takes salary for his duty of worship then he too becomes a sūdra.]

Indian man: [Transl. He can manage his expense from the donations that people offer to the Deity.]

Prabhupada: Han?

Indian man: [Transl. The donations people offer he can use it for his own expenditure.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. For him that's a trick to run the temple. You see it practically. We have got one hundred fifty temples throughout the world. And every day we have to feed ten thousand people at least. We have no such trick.] Thank you very much. [Transl. Go to any of our temple and see the standard of worship and service. Those gentlemen who visit our temple in England, they admit that the standard of worship and service and beautiful temple we find here is not found anywhere in India.]

Indian man: [Transl. In your Vrndavana temple everything is very beautiful. I had darsana there.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. By your mercy we have no shortage. The Supreme Personality of Godhead provides everything. That is His duty. I pray to the Lord "I have carried on with these foreign mlecchas and yavanas. I have taught and trained them as far as possible. Rest You teach them and engage in Your service.]

Indian man: [Transl. By your blessings they will certainly learn.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. What more can I do? I give them initiation. I teach them everything. Then the Lord takes care of them. We have estabilished temples in Australia, Sydney. When I was returning from there I simply prayed to the Lord "My dear Lord, I am leaving You in the hands of these mlecchas and yavanas. You Yourself teach and train them. What more can I do?" Then next time when I went there, everything was so beautiful.]

Tamala Krsna: I have a photograph. Should I bring it? Sydney.

Prabhupada: Yes. [Transl. Everything is organized so nicely. Deity worship, classes, kirtans. So the Supreme Lord teaches and trains.

[Transl. If a person wants to serve the Supreme Lord with love and devotion, He will give him necessary intelligence. "Dear child, do like this, do like this." But we have declared, "God is formless. He cannot speak. He doesn't know anything." Finished. God has no form. Finished. The Supreme Lord says, dadami buddhi-yogam tam. According to place, time, and candidate I give the intelligence. How then can a formless speak? This is going on. For a person who thinks the Deity is stone, He is stone. He will never speak also. And one who thinks He is directly the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Hari, the son of the King of Vraja, He will talk with him. All this can be realized by bhakti. bhaktya mam abhijanati. [Bg 18.55] That God talks, who can understand it? Only devotees. For others He is blocked. naham prakasaḥ sarvasya yoga-maya-samavrtaḥnaham prakasa. [Bg 7.25] Yogamaya stops them. "You stay away here. You won't understand." Please come in. bhaktya mam abhijanati yavan yas casmi tattvataḥ [Bg 18.55]

Tamala Krsna: All we had was this Melbourne photo. We don't have the Sydney... We have the Melbourne Deities. Still, it's nice.

Prabhupada: Melbourne and Sydney, white.

Tamala Krsna: Yes, I knew it was Australia.

Prabhupada: [Transl. This is one of our temples in Australia, Melbourne. Now they accept,] a section of Americans, they are Hindus. [Transl. "Hindu American." That's why I am requesting all of you to understand this movement seriously. pranair arthair dhiya vaca sreya-acaranam sada [SB 10.22.35] Then the whole world will become Hindu. That you all will not do. The word 'Hindu' is not found anywhere in the sastra. This is a name given by the Muslims. Actually, our culture is Vedic varnasrama. Varnasrama-dharma can be reintroduced everywhere.]

Indian man: [Transl. In Bhagavad-gita the varnas have been mentioned, but I think there is no mention about the asramas. In Bhagavad-gita?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes. There is a mention about asrama. kim punar brahmanaḥ punya bhakta rajarsayas tatha [Bg 9.33] [Transl. That is asrama. Brahmana, Ksatriya, Vaisya. The vaisya is mentioned. Everything is there.] catur-varnyam maya srstam [Bg 4.13] First let there be varnas. First varna then asrama. When varnas are finished then what is the use of asrama? The brahmanas and ksatriyas require brahmacari asrama. Everything is arranged. For brahmanas there are four asramas, for ksatriyas three asramas, for vaisyas two asramas, and for sūdras one asrama. Where are the brahmanas? Who is a ksatriya? Everything is empty.

[Transl. Now if we open a school or a college and say, "Please come. We will make you brahmana." To become a brahmana what do I have to learn? Sama, dama, titiksa, control the mind, control the senses, titiksa, practice tolerance, acquire knowledge and practical application of the knowledge. They will simply laugh it away. They will say, "By doing all this how will we survive?" Nobody will come? "Teach us technology. We will strike with hammer. We can earn a lot that way."

[Transl. sūdrasyapi svabhava-jam [Bg 18.44] ...kalau sūdra sambhava. Does anyone want to become a brahmana? They will laugh. "What are you talking? Control the mind, don't tell lies. How life will go on by doing all this? In every step we will have to tell lies, then only we can earn our livelihood. So what is the use of teaching us all this?" Who will become a brahmana? Then? catur-varnyam maya srstam [Bg 4.13] For namesake I am a brahmana, wearing a two paisa thread, finish, sutratve. In the Srimad-Bhagavatam it is written, vipratve sūtram eva hi [SB 12.2.3] In Kali-yuga a two paisa worth of thread is the sign of a brahmana. vipratve sūtram eva hi. dampatye 'bhirucir hetur mayaiva vyavaharike dampatye ratim. The relationship between a man and a woman will remain as long as there is sex life, rati. It is also written, lavanyam kesa-dharanam [SB 12.2.6]. In Kali-yuga by growing long hair a person will think "I have become very beautiful."

[Transl. Just see. Only five thousand years ago all these things were written down. Most people grow long hair. lavanyam kesa-dharanam. And all the low class people like sūdras, cobblers and so on, they will forcibly grab power and become king. They don't need to learn the qualities of a ksatriya. You understand? praja hi lubdhai rajanyair nirghrnair dasyu-dharmabhiḥ [SB 12.2.8] The government will be dacoits. Simply plunder. Right? anavrstya vinahksyanti durbhiksa-kara-piḍitaḥ [SB 12.2.9] acchinna-dara-dravina yasyanti giri-kananam ... anavrsti, On one hand there will be no rain, on top of that durbhiksa, there will be no foodgrains. And the government will impose heavy tax. As a result, people will be so harassed that they will leave everything and go away.]

Tamala Krsna: It's about 6:30 now, Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: Have sahkirtana.

Indian man (2): [Transl. Maharajaji, there was a news recently that American government has started putting so many obstacles in the way of your preaching work?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. So much. Created so many impediments. But not the government, but public. Rather the government has issued a judgment in our favour. High court. We were reading it the other day.]

Indian man: [Transl. We were discussing the judgment yesterday, but I did not exactly know what was it about. I worked as a judge. That's why I was very interested to know.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Oh! So you kindly translate it into Hindi for us.]

Indian man: You have got a copy?

Tamala Krsna: I have the original, not a copy.

Prabhupada: You can give him this.

Indian man: If I... If I could have access to it?

Prabhupada: He's a judge.

Indian man: Yes, you can safely believe.

Indian man: [Transl. Maharajaji, is this a judgment from American government?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes.]

Bhakti-caru: [Transl. From the High court.]

Indian man: [Transl. The discussion took place yesterday,] but I couldn't follow [Transl. what the matter was. I thought it was...

Prabhupada: [Transl. There are many legal terms in that judgment and only you people can translate those. I was also asking if there is any lawer or somebody.]

Indian man (2): We should appreciate that he passed his judgment.

Indian man: Legal terms. Legal terms. Who would like to deliver such judgment? Impartial judgment.

Prabhupada: [Transl. It was the sheer mercy of the Supreme Lord that within one day the judgment was given.]

Indian man (2): And every person has got right to…

Indian man (1): Faith.

Indian man (2): Faith.

Indian man (1): Faith, yes, yes.

Indian man (2): Not Christianity or not Hinduism. Anything you like.

Prabhupada: Not anything?

Indian man (2): Not anything?

Prabhupada: Religion.

Indian man (2): Religion.

Prabhupada: Not anything.

Indian man (2): Everyone has right to follow.

Prabhupada: Yes. Every man has right to follow any, mean, established religion. And they have accepted this Hare Krsna movement is established religion in India for many thousands of years.

Indian man (1): Only there should be no force.

Prabhupada: Hun?

Indian man: [Transl. There should be no force.]

Prabhupada: There is no force. There is no force. Everyone is joining voluntarily. [Transl. By force how far can you go? Nothing works by force.]

Indian man: [Transl. So Maharaja, who actually objected, government or public?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Public. Come in.]

Tamala Krsna: Should we hold kirtana, Srila Prabhupada?

[kirtana begins] [end]