Evening Darśana – May 9, 1977, Rishikesh

Why we should waste our energy for manufacturing?

Prabhupada: [Transl. We can't trust how long it will go on.]

Indian man (1): [Transl. In the hilly areas… usually in our plain cities electricity often goes off, but in the hilly areas there is storm, rain and other disturbances.]

Prabhupada: The thing is that we have to... Shall I speak in Hindi or in English? There are others...

Indian man (1): Most of us, we can follow in English. You speak in English, we can follow.

Prabhupada: So we are trying to imitate the Western way of life, but it is not possible for us to do that. Our constitution is different, spiritual, and their is material. Now they should be combined. Our government, our people, they want Western way of life, say motorcar. So they can purchase motorcar from foreign countries. What is the wrong there? Why we should waste our energy for manufacturing? Similarly, India should produce agricultural products. They want... Just like England: there is no food, food grain. They have... Everything they have to import. Even vegetables, daily vegetables, they have to import. So United Nation on the basis of spiritual understanding. Īsavasyam idam sarvam .

Actually, everything belongs to Krsna, or God, and we are His sons. Krsna never claimed that "Indians are My sons." Krsna said, sarva-yonisu kaunteya [Bg 14.4]: "In every form of life the living entity, their mother is this material nature, and I am the seed-giving father." So on that basis the civilization should be established, and the instruction of Krsna should be followed by everyone, and they will be happy. That is the only way. Otherwise they'll suffer continually. They are suffering, and they will continue to suffer.

[aside:] They have come to disturb.

So that philosophy, Krsna consciousness, we are trying to distribute all over the world, and they are accepting. This is the first time in the history of the world that foreigners, they are becoming devotees of Krsna. Now, in the history of the world there was no temple outside India, neither devotee also.

Indian man (1): The entire credit goes to you, sir.

Prabhupada: [chuckles] Yes. From historical reference it is so, but it can go still farther, and in that way India's glories will be magnified. But unfortunately, our leaders and government are callous. They do not know what is India's glory and how India's glory can be distributed. They are trying that India's glory will be magnified by imitating Western way of life. This is the defect. They can understand that the Western way of life has not given them actual happiness. Otherwise why these boys, they are coming to India? They are young boys, and they are coming from very respectable family, rich family, rich nation. They have no economic problem. They have not come here to earn their livelihood, as we go to England to learn something, technology, and earn our livelihood. They have not come here for that purpose. They have enough food, enough everything, material. They are hankering after some spiritual...

So there are two sides. [aside:] Why you are reducing? So our leaders, rather, they are misinterpreting sastra, our leaders, and trying to mold it to the material way of life. This is the pity of the things. Now you should reform them in this Krsna consciousness movement, and real United Nation will be formed. There will be no question of nationality. In the Bhagavad-gita... Big, big leaders, they are reading Bhagavad-gita, but is there any word as "nationalism"?

Indian man (1): None.

Prabhupada: And big, big leaders, they are utilizing Bhagavad-gita for so-called nationalism. Why? There is not a single word as "nationalism." As Krsna says, sarva-yonisu kaunteya [Bg 14.4]. Where is nationalism? There is no question of nationalism. So the difficulty is they do not understand even a line of Bhagavad-gita, and still, the so-called scholars, philosophers, politicians, they are advertising that "I am student." They do not understand even a line of. This is my challenge. What do you think? They do not understand. Even Gandhi did not understand, not a single line.

Indian man (1): Gandhi did believe in trusteeship theory.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Indian man (1): Gandhiji believed in trusteeship theory of Īsopanisad.

Prabhupada: Trusteeship... Trustee... Who will be trustee? Who is trustworthy? All thieves and rogues? Who is trustworthy? Trustee is Krsna.

Indian man (1): Or He's the owner.

Prabhupada: Yes. So He's the owner, and if you follow Krsna, then you become trustee. You do not follow Krsna; you are unworthy of trusteeship. You interpret in a different way Krsna. Even sometimes you say that "Krsna is fictitious." Do you not do? Don't you say like that?

Indian man (1): No, not...

Indian man (2): Very passing reference he made once.

Prabhupada: Why? That means he does not know what is Krsna.

Indian man (3): Who made this reference? Who made this passing reference, where Krsna is fictitious?

Indian man (2): Gandhi made...

Tamala Krsna: Gandhiji.

Indian man (2): [Transl. It was written in "In search of the Supreme" by Mahatma Gandhi.]

Prabhupada: I don't speak especially of Gandhi, but there are so many. Everyone takes Bhagavad-gita and misinterprets in his way. Why? Boliye. Why they should misinterpret Bhagavad-gita? What right they have got?

Indian man: [Transl. By your consideration the clear understanding will be revealed.]

Indian man (2): [Transl. By your consideration the situation of our political life will change, and rising above, the country will be able to understand the correct meaning of Bhagavad-gita.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. There is no difficulty in understanding. Why are they ruining themselves and others by misinterpreting? This is our protest. The Supreme Lord Himself is saying] Evam parampara-praptam imam rajarsayo viduḥ sa kaleneha yogo nastaḥ paran-tapa [Bg 4.2]. Because the disciplic succession was disconnected, the science of the Supreme Lord was lost.] So parampara, in the parampara system, the system remains in order. And that is our way of life. Our... We are in India. These men have come newly under Western education, but we have got parampara system, just like Ramanuja's parampara, Madhvacarya's parampara, Visnu Svami parampara. Still there is. Sri-sampradaya, Madhva-sampradaya, Visnu Svami...

Indian man (1): Disciplic succession.

Prabhupada: Succession, yes. So Krsna said that the real truth is in the parampara system. You cannot take anything and misinterpret. Then it is lost. Suppose from the very beginning of my life I have been taught by my father that this is called Dictaphone. Now, if I misinterpret in a different way, then it is lost. "Call a spade a spade." And Krsna very distinctly says that "Because that parampara system is now lost, I am again speaking to you." Puratana. Find out this word, puratana. Maya te 'dya yogaḥ proktaḥ puratanaḥ. Why He is speaking puratana, not new definition? Boliye.

Devotee (1): Should I read, Srila Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Prabhupada: This is the beginning.

Indian man (2): Fourth Chapter.

Prabhupada: Read it again.

Devotee (1): "That very ancient science of the relation..."

Prabhupada: No, no, that verse, sloka, you...

Devotee (1): Sa evayam maya te 'dya... [Bg 4.3].

Prabhupada: Sa eva. Aham.

Devotee (1): Maya te 'dya yogaḥ...

Prabhupada: Maya te 'dya yogaḥ proktaḥ puratanaḥ. Now, Krsna never said, although in Bhagavad-gita yoga is spoken by Him, He never said that "Because now time has passed away, circumstance different, so I can say you in a new way." There is no such foolishness. But these people, they speak Bhagavad-gita in a new way-more than Krsna. These rascals are more than Krsna. So we are guided by them. They think of themselves as more intelligent than Krsna. This is the difficulty in India. [Transl. Say what you have to say about that. Big, big Acaryas said, bhagavan uvaca.] Vyasadeva says, bhagavan uvaca. [Transl. And they say "We are greater than God." So are they not rascals?] Unnecessarily if one is proud without any qualification, he's a rascal. [Transl. This is the problem in India. They simply manufacture their respective ideas. But Krsna says, yogah proktah puratanah.] Or this is also said there, that bhakto 'si priyo 'si [Bg 4.3]. The system of Bhagavad-gita, it can be understood only by the bhaktas. Otherwise why He should select Arjuna as the perfect audience? Because Arjuna was not a Vedantist. He was grhastha, belonging to royal family. He was dealing in politics. So the so-called Vedantists and sannyasis, they are supposed to be student of Bhagavad-gita, but Krsna selected him not because he was a Vedantist... He was not even brahmana. He was ksatriya, politician, grhastha, not Vedantist, ordinary knowledge, but Krsna selected him. [aside:] Hmm, don't do it.

Indian man (1): He was bhakta and sakha.

Prabhupada: Bhakta means he must be a servant, sakha, or father or conjugal lover. They are bhaktas. There are five rasas. So a bhakta is situated in one of them: santa, dasya, sakhya, vatsalya... That is Vrndavana atmosphere. So bhakta means either of them. Arjuna sakhye. By friendship Arjuna became perfect, by making Krsna as friend. Hanuman dasye. Vajrahgaji, Hanuman, he, by serving Lord Ramacandra, the order... He was not even human being, animal, bahdar [monkey], not very intelligent, but by giving service constantly, he worshiped even now. So as soon as you become a bhakta, you must be related with Krsna with some rasa, in some relationship. That is bhakta.

So the point is that without becoming a bhakta, nobody can understand bhakti. A politician cannot understand. They simply make their artificial attempt to understand. They'll never understand. It is locked. Just like a bottle of honey. I give you, "Here is a bottle of honey," and if you, "Oh, it is honey. Let me lick up the bottle," so will you get the taste? So similarly, they are licking up the bottle, not inside. Rahasyam uttamam. They have no information. They are licking up bottle: "I am reading Bhagavad-gita." This is the position. For this reason our country has fallen so much. But it can be revived again. The things are already there. Bhagavad-gita is there. Krsna is there. The instruction is there. If you take it, then it will immediately change the face of the whole world-immediately, without difficulty. But we are so stubborn, doggish, that we don't. We manufacture. This is going on. [Transl. What is the remedy for this? Nothing. And we are struggling against this.] ...yesterday. We are standing against the stubborn, doggish mentality. We have got no difficulty, at the same time, very, very difficult task. No difficulty-if you accept Bhagavad-gita as it is, no difficulty. But you don't accept-there is great difficulty. In the foreign countries they are not stubborn, doggish. They accept what we say in the Bhagavad-gita. Therefore these young men, they have very easily become devotees of Krsna. [Transl. And in our country, to forget what have learned, it will take three hundred lifetimes.]

Indian man (4): [Transl. Now it appears that by the endeavor of a great personality like you the present situation of our country may improve.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. It should improve, but we must understand clearly] ...that why we shall misinterpret Bhagavad-gita? Krsna was less intelligent, that He left Bhagavad-gita to be interpreted by some rascal philosopher or politician? He was not intelligent enough to clear the idea? If Kuruksetra is meant "body," why you should bring in the name of Kuruksetra the bodily conception of life? What is this? Dharma-ksetre kuru-ksetre samaveta yuyutsavaḥ, mamakaḥ panḍavaḥ [Bg 1.1]. Dharma-ksetre kuru-ksetre is still there. Why Kuruksetra should be interpreted as something else?

Indian man (1): You have cautioned the reader in this translation.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Indian man (1): You have cautioned the reader to read the Bhagavad-gita as it is.

Prabhupada: Yes. That is the way. And their purpose is that "Bhagavad-gita should be utilized for my rascaldom." This is going on. [Transl. Stop all this and take Bhagavad-gita as it is only. You will all be happy. This is our mission] This is our mission. Don't manufacture nonsense. It will never be successful.

Indian man (3): This, all about nation, nationalness...

Prabhupada: First of all, there is no question of nationalism. It is all bogus.

Indian man (3): No, that you have spoken. Our request is how best we can implement the teachings of Gita in these critical days...

Prabhupada: It is already there. It is already there. You kindly take it.

Indian man (3): How to implement in our daily life...?

Prabhupada: You understand. The difficulty is you do not understand even a line of Bhagavad-gita. Still, you say that you are student of Bhagavad-gita. This is difficulty.

Indian man (3): I see. Then how to understand it?

Prabhupada: It is there already. But you are blind. You are cheater. You see things, one thing, and you speak another thing. You are cheating. Now, in the beginning of the Bhagavad-gita, when Arjuna surrendered to Krsna as a student-sisyas te 'ham sadhi mam prapannam [Bg 2.7]: "Krsna, there will be no utility by arguing. I know that I am not doing my duty. I am ksatriya. I am in the active field, and I am declining to fight. This is not good for me." Karpanya-dosopahata-svabhavaḥ: "So I can understand that I am puzzled that 'How I can kill such enemies who are my family members?' This is my problem."

[aside:] [Transl. Here is a fly disturbing so much.]

Indian man (3): There are two. [laughter]

Prabhupada: [Transl. This is the world, and we want to be happy here. The flies will come and kill you.] [laughter] And we want to be happy. Tri-tapa-yantrana, three types of miseries, are always there. So Krsna, when took charge of teaching him, the first lesson was that "Arjuna, you have talked like a very learned man, but you are not learned."

"You are taking care of the body, which is a lump of matter, combination of five elements-earth, water, air, fire-and you are concerned with this nonsense matter. You have no information of the real thing. And you are talking as a learned...?" This is the first. And then He said that "Actual person is within the body." Dehino 'smin yatha dehe kaumaram yauvanam... [Bg 2.13].

So as you are changing body in this status, from childhood to boyhood, boyhood to youth-hood, similarly, when you give up this body, you get another body. Tatha dehantara-praptiḥ. So if you are destined to change your body, then where is your nationalism? Boliye. [Transl. Answer? What is your answer to this?] If you have to change your body... Today you are Indian. Tomorrow you become Pakistani. Then again fight.

Trivikrama: Bangladesh.

Prabhupada: This is going on. Today you are European; tomorrow you become Indian. And today you are man; tomorrow you become a dog. If you have got love for your country, but your work is doggish, then you become a dog. And who cares for the national dog? The street dog and the... At night he takes charge of the street. Nobody has appointed him, but he takes charge, and whole night: "Gow! Gow!" If somebody, new man, enters the neighborhood, "I am in charge." You see? "Why you have entered?" So this is going on. "I am leader of this country." So what is this civilization? Krsna says that "I am the leader." He says, bhoktaram yajna-tapasam sarva-loka-mahesvaram, suhrdam sarva-bhūtanam [Bg 5.29]: "I am the leader. I am the friend, well-wisher of everyone." And if a dog says, "I am the leader. I am the well-wisher," so which way we shall go? I shall accept the dog as leader and well-wisher or Krsna? Boliye. A barking dog or Krsna?

Indian man (2): Naturally Krsna.

Prabhupada: Yes. And He says, suhrdam sarva-bhūtanam: "I can adjust things." So we are not taking it. [Transl. From all sides.] From all angles of vision, if you study Bhagavad-gita, everything is perfectly clear. And if you take it seriously, you become happy in this life and dehantare. If you simply take, accept Krsna as He says, then what is result? Krsna says, janma karma me divyam yo janati tattvataḥ tyaktva deham punar janma mam eti [Bg 4.9]. Punar janma, tatha dehantara-praptiḥ [Bg 2.13]. But one who has understood Krsna perfectly-it is not possible to understand Him, but as far as possible, as far as our knowledge is concerned, if we understand Krsna-then immediate result is that we are freed from the bondage of janma-mrtyu-jara-vyadhi [Bg 13.9].

So that is the real problem. We are solving problems-this problem, that problem, that... They are not problems. That is natural in this material world. Just like this fly is disturbing. This is not a problem, because the fly is meant for that purpose. How... You cannot stop him. You can protect yourself. It is not possible to stop him. This is not problem, how to drive away the fly. The real problem, Krsna says, janma-mrtyu-jara-vyadhi-duḥkha-dosanudarsanam, that you are in the cycle of birth, death... Tatha dehantara-praptiḥ [Bg 2.13]. You get another life and you suffer. Again you get another life. This is your problem. So that problem, Krsna says, that "You can solve it. Simply try to understand Me." Janma karma me divyam yo janati tattvataḥ, tyaktva deham [Bg 4.9]. That is our business. But we are being deviated from the real business, and we are being engaged in so-called this ism, that ism, that ism. This is spoiling the whole thing.

This life, this human form of life, is meant for understanding the real problem of life and to solve it. This is the opportunity. And Krsna personally coming to instruct you, "You solve in this way." But we are so doggish, we will not take. What can be done? Then become a dog. Nature's law will work. Karanam guna-sahgo 'sya sad-asad-janma-yonisu [Bg 13.22]. If you remain doggish-you do not become a human being-then, all right, you become a dog next life. Tatha dehantara-pra... Then take charge of the street and "Gow! Gow! Gow!" Mrtyu-samsara-vartmani. This... For this purpose we request every one of you that you study Bhagavad-gita very seriously as it is, apply it in your practical life and teach it to others. That is perfection. That is Caitanya Mahaprabhu's mission. He says that "You become guru everyone." [break] You simply repeat. Don't misinterpret. Boliye. This is Caitanya Mahaprabhu's... Every one of you become a guru, not a bluffer, but a guru, real guru. "How real guru? I can become? I have no qualification." Yare dekha tare kaha krsna-upadesa [Cc Madhya 7.128]: "You simply take the words of Krsna and preach." Krsna says, mattaḥ parataram nanyat [Bg 7.7].

You simply repeat, "Sir, Krsna is the Supreme Being, God." What is the difficulty? Krsna says, "There is no superior authority than Me." You simply say, "Krsna is the supreme authority." That's all. Krsna says, man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam... You preach, "Come here in the temple. See Krsna's Deity and always think of Him." Where is the difficulty? Now these Europeans and Americans, what I have done to them? I have not given any bribe. I say, "Here is Krsna. He is God." They accept it, worship Him. Man-mana bhava mad-bhaktaḥ. Just if you cannot do anything, just offer one obeisances, namaskara. Any child can do. They have done it, and they are going ahead. [Transl. Why are you not accepting it? Simply talk all nonsense.] Krsna-upadesa is there, perfect upadesa. [Transl. By interpreting and speculating all nonsense you are wasting your time and the time of others. This is going on. Stop all this. Whatever has happened has happened. Now put an end to this. And then] as Krsna says, you try to assimilate it and distribute it. There is no diffi... [Transl. You give me credit, but in my credit there is no magic or jugglery. I don't produce gold or show them magic.] Krsna says, mattaḥ parataram nan... [Transl. Just to make people understand this fact I have written] eighty-four books, each book, four hundred pages, in ten years. And we are selling, collecting by selling book, five to six lakhs of rupees daily in foreign countries. What is that qualification? We have tried to convince people that Krsna is the Supreme Being. Īsvaraḥ paramaḥ krsnaḥ [Bs 5.1]. All are Īsvaras, but parama isvara, isvaraḥ paramaḥ.] "The Supreme Being is Krsna." Īsvaraḥ paramaḥ krsnaḥ. Sac-cid-ananda-vigrahaḥ. [Transl. Not formless. Not without a form.] Sac-cid-ananda-vigrahaḥ. [Transl. It says vigraha. Vigraha means] form. Not formless. Formless is another feature, but real feature is Syamasundara. Yam syamasundaram acintya-guna-svarūpam.

The Govinda, Syamasundara, dvi-bhuja-muralidhara. Here is the Supreme Being. Take His instruction. Always think of Him. You become perfect. Where is the difficulty? [Transl. Answer? Why do you create difficult position?] Why do you create difficult position? This is going on. [Transl. You want to show your expertise. "I am very expert. I am greater than Krsna" This is going on. Show off one's ability is going on.] Surrender to Krsna, follow His instruction and be happy. [Transl. Say what you have to say about this.]

Indian man (4): [Transl. So how will this showing off one's ability will stop Gurudeva?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. This show off, one way to remove it is to beat them up with shoes. This is going on by the arrangement of maya. Yet they are so shameless even though they are being beaten by shoes they will say "What will be our loss? Nothing, rather you will break your shoes."]

Indian man (1): Shameless.

Prabhupada: [Transl. You beat him with shoes, and he will say "Nothing will happen to me, you will break your shoes." How can you rectify such a person? He has such a mentality that you beat him with shoes and he says] "I don't care for you." [Transl. Doesn't maya beat you enough with shoes? It is maya's business only to beat with shoes. This is one way for which maya has been sent. To beat up these hog-like people nicely. mama maya, My energy. You cannot escape the hands of maya.] Therefore Krsna says, mama maya. That means he's engaged, she's engaged for beating with shoes. But he cannot understand, although Krsna is coming personally to make him understand, paritranaya sadhūnam [Bg 4.8]. So this is the difficulty. There was a big expert, Hiranyakasipu! He was nicely and thoroughly beaten up with shoes. Finally all his expertise was smashed and he came back to his senses. This is the point. One way is to be beaten up by shoes. And the other way is] mam eva ye prapadyante mayam etam taranti te. You surrender to Krsna; everything is finished. So it is up to you, whether you prefer to be beaten by shoes continually or you surrender to Krsna. That depends on you. [Transl. There is no other way for an over smart.]

Indian man: (2) [Transl. Kindly shed some light on the topic of surrender Gurudeva.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Surrender is in your hands.]

Indian man: (2) [Transl. In what way should we surrender? Does surrender mean not to utilize my intelligence? Whatever God says we act like that? Is that the meaning of surrender?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. You don't have intelligence. You are a rascal.]

Indian man: You are right.

Prabhupada: [Transl. What is the use of a rascal's intelligence? You give up your rascaldom and do what K???a says. If you say "I will not give up rascaldom and at the same time I will surrender to Krsna." That is not possible. First you give up your rascaldom and follow what Krsna says. Finish.]

Indian man: (2) [Transl. Please elaborate little more about surrender.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Surrender means to believe what Krsna instructs.] sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg 18.66]. Don't manufacture nonsense things. [Transl. Give up rascaldom. Simply surrender to Him. This is in your hand. You will go away after manufacturing "This ism, that ism, that ism." So you will have to give up this rascaldom. Therefore Krsna says sarva dharmanparityajya. You are very intelligent, you can create rascaldom-this ism, that ism. Give up all that. Now you see, the discussion of Bhagavad-gita going on.] The Bhagavad-gita is spoken in the Battlefield of Kuruksetra. [Transl. And we want to apply nonviolence. How is it possible? The Bhagavad-gita spoken in the battlefield, in the very beginning it says] dharma-ksetre kuru-ksetre samaveta yuyutsavaḥ [Bg 1.1]. The first word is [Transl. fight]. And you want to prove it, nonviolence. [Transl. Is it not rascaldom? Answer?] The first word is used, yuyutsavaḥ.

Indian man (2): [Transl. Desire to fight.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. So? Fighting is nonviolence? What a grave sin!]

Indian man (2): [Transl. Arjuna also displayed oversmartness in the beginning.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Forget about Arjuna. First talk about your oversmartness. Your oversmartness is you interpret yuyutsavaḥ as nonviolence. Is it possible? Why do you want to show your oversmartness? Lying! You spoil yourself and others! Nonviolence in politics! Have you ever seen it in the History? Nor is it possible. Big, big kings, Ksatriyas, they have to fight and kill. So they used to go for hunting in order to learn how to kill. Because, otherwise if he is suddenly asked to kill somebody, he cannot kill. So by killing small animals day by day they became used to it. Violence was taught.] Violence required to keep the society in order. [Transl. The brahmanas are required, ksatriyas are required, vaisyas are required, and sūdras are required. catur-varnyam maya srstam guna-karma-vibhagasaḥ. [Bg. 4.13] If there are only brahmanas then] who will give protection? Everything is scientific. [Transl. We have abandoned that system, and by showing off our expertise we have ruined everything. This is what has happened. So our request is that give up your trickery and accept what Krsna says. Then everything will be alright.]

Indian man (2): [Transl. Sanjay Sahab also played a trick that there should be no caste-distinction. All are equal.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. You are another. You address him Sahab? A Goonda or a Hooligan!]

Indian man: [Transl. That's why his trickery was over.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. You are also like that. That's why you call a Hooligan Sahab.]

Indian man (2): [Transl. He was very much against caste-distinction.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. He was an upstart, childish, and a lascivious. And he was made India's…]

Indian man (2): [Transl. Prime minister, eh, superworker.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Fortunately the Supreme Lord has saved us.]

Indian man (2): [Transl. Really He saved. By your blessings we have been saved.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Actually I did pray to the Lord. Canakya Panḍita says in his Moral science visvaso naiva kartavyaḥ strisu raja-kulesu ca.] So "Don't trust woman and politician." This is Canakya Panḍita. And she is both politician and woman. We have got Mahabharata, there is not a single instance... We had very, very great, qualified women. But they were in charge of state...? Very, very qualified women. You know. na svatantratam arhati, striyaḥ [Manu-samhita]. For woman there is no independence. The Manu-samhita. They must stay under father, under husband or under elderly sons. Three stages. Kunti...

Indian man (5): [Transl. pita raksati kanya or the father protects the daughter.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes. Until she is married she stays under the guidance of her father. Even twenty or twenty-five years ago this Indian system was current.] A young girl cannot go out without father's, mother's... She cannot mix with any other young man. Strictly prohibited. [Transl. All such rules and regulations are almost gone.] If you want to revive real Indian civilization or Vedic civilization for the good of the whole human society, take to Krsna consciousness. You'll be happy. There is no doubt. [Transl. Stop all other tricks. All these upstart experts, self-made experts, stop all that. It's written in the very beginning yuyutsavaḥ and they say nonviolence. What is this? Tell me?] Why do you try to undo something which is spoken by Bhagavan, Vyasadeva? [Transl. If it was something else, couldn't Vyasadeva write it? Is He a fool? He compiled the Vedas! He wrote yuyutsavaḥ, and we say no, nonviolence. mahad-atikramaḥ or to transgress a great personality is a grave sin.The sastra says] mahajano yena gataḥ sa panthaḥ [Cc Madhya 17.186]. We are not following mahajana, but we are transgressing. [Transl. So how can we be happy? First of all we misled ourselves.]

[aside:] Bring. Bring cutting.

Dharmasya tattvam nihitam guhayam mahajano yena gataḥ sa panthaḥ. And mahajanas are also mentioned,

[Transl. Everything is there. There is no difficulty.] We want to become artificially rascal, mahajana. That is going on. [Transl. Therefore Krsna says] Sarva-dharman parityajya [Bg 18.66]: "Whatever you have learned, forget." Mam ekam. Because he has become too much bewildered, He doesn't say anybody else. Mam ekam, word to the mūrkhas... Saranam vraja. [Transl. Do like that. What is the objection in it? Everybody is reading Bhagavad-gita all over the world. Here also the Bhagavad-gita is discussed, but where do they teach mam ekam? Krsna. Reply Maharaja?]

Indian man (2): [Transl. In the Svargasrama, all the lectures are given on Bhagavad-gita only. But nobody spoke about this.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. They don't know only, yet they give lecture. It is very clear.] Avajananti mam mūḍhaḥ [Bg 9.11]. [Transl. They think that Krsna is just like one of us. If Krsna can say something then we too can say something. This is the point. mūdha. param bhavam ajananto. [Bg. 9.11] They don't know Krsna. They don't know. What will they speak? That's why in the beginning He said bhakto'si me [Bg. 4.3] one who knows Me, he can speak. Not everyone can speak. They simply waste time. If you abstract "nonviolence" from Bhagavad-gita then what is the meaning of the first word "yuyutsavaḥ"? Answer? What is written in the sastra has to be kept intact. If you strike off things whimsically from it then what is the meaning of Gita? You present your own philosophy separately.] Why do you take Bhagavad-gita? The beginning, the first line, is yuyutsavaḥ. Where is nonviolence? [Transl. That's why I was telling you that they don't understand even a line of Bhagavad-gita. And yet they supposed to be lecturing on Bhagavad-gita? tatha dehantara-praptir [Bg. 2.13]

Indian man (6): How can you fight a war and then be nonviolent at the same time?

Prabhupada: Eh?

Indian man (6): How is it possible to be nonviolent...

Prabhupada: Why you want nonviolence?

Indian man (6): They are talking so much about nonviolence...

Prabhupada: Just like here is a makkhi [fly]. Is it not violence sometimes to drive it then? There will be attack, and you have to protect yourself. This world is not like that, that there is no... It is not Vaikuntha. It is material world. There will be attack. Even if you are not..., you are nonviolent, the others will be violent. Others will set fire in your house without any fault. They'll kidnap your wife. This is going on all over the world. You must protect yourself. [Transl. Don't the robbers and dacoits come forcibly? Do you want thieves and dacoits come to your house and steal everything? But they still come.] How you can stop him? Thieves and rogues, even if you are nonviolent, they will come, take advantage. It is your duty.

Indian man (6): What is meant by nonviolence?

Prabhupada: It has no meaning.

Indian man (6): It has no meaning?

Prabhupada: Simply imagination, that's all.

Indian man (2): [Transl. We practice nonviolence that you do not become offensive to anyone. It is your duty to defend yourself. So just defend yourself.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. If you have to defend then you need violence. You keep soldiers and police. When there is too much wickedness you order to shoot. So you cannot abolish it. You can make proper use of it.] This is the meaning. You cannot abolish it. That is not possible.

Indian man (7): What is to world Mahatma Gandhi's nonviolence or...

Prabhupada: I do not wish to discuss nonviolen... But we are talking of philosophy, that you cannot stop violence. That is not possible.

Tamala Krsna: Krsna says, mam anusmara yudhya ca [Bg 8.7].

Prabhupada: Yes. Yudhya ca. [Transl. Fighting is also required.]

Indian man (2): [Transl. The meaning of the word "yuddha" is…]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yuddha means fighting. But you have distorted it.]

Indian man (2): [Transl. Don't be violent. Yuddha means to carry out one's daily activities properly.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yuddha means fight. Why do you want to change it?]

Indian man (2): [Transl. As it is.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. This is the oversmartness. "What is the meaning of yuddha?" Yuddha means yuddha- fighting. Why do you want to show off your trickery?]

Indian man (2): [Transl. If not yuddha then He said "do karma."]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Then do something else. The word is there! Yuddha word is mentioned. It means yuddha or fight. What is the need of deriving another meaning? Meaning can be derived in such cases where the word is not clear] There is some word, the meaning is not clear, then you can suggest that "Meaning may be like this." But when it is clear, there is no, I mean to say, chance of interpreting.

Indian man (1): As, for example, vicara, those such words which requires some clarification or..., these can be interpreted like...

Prabhupada: No, no, when it is clear, why it should be interpreted?

Indian man (1): No, for other words...

Prabhupada: Other words... [Transl. Forget other words. First you answer this.] ...that when it is clear-yudhya ca-then why should you interpret? The example is there in the Sanskrit grammar. Just like... The example is given, where interpretation required. It is said, example is given, like gahgayam ghosa-palli, that "There is a neighborhood called Ghosha-palli on the Ganges." So then you can ask that "Gahga is water. How there is a neighborhood?" Then the interpretation: "Not on the Ganges water but on the bank."

Indian man (1): [Transl. Situated on the bank.]

Prabhupada: Then interpretation. But when it is clear that "On the bank of the Ganges there is a neighborhood called Ghosha-pali," then where is interpretation? Interpretation will be required when the meaning is not clear. Otherwise, if the meaning is clear, that is [Transl. masterstroke], to interpret. But in Bhagavad-gita, in the first line, the word is used, yuyutsvaḥ, "desiring to fight." So desiring to fight, they assembled; they must fight. So where is the question of interpretation? [aside:] So prasadam ready or not?

Tamala Krsna: Yeah. About 6:30, Srila Prabhupada.

Prabhupada: [Transl. So let us stop here for today. Come again tomorrow and we will meet.]

Tamala Krsna: Every day there'll be darsana, five to six. Every day.

Indian man (7): [Transl. This hall doesn't suit you? For Maharaja's discourse.]

Prabhupada: Hmm? What is that?

Indian man (8): There is a big hall here.

Gopala Krsna: There's a hall over here.

Indian man (8): There is a big hall here where a lot of people can come, because lot of people want to listen you.

Prabhupada: [Transl. So you all make arrangement and we will come. We are here.]

Indian man (2): [Transl. Then you will have to go there.]

Indian man (8): It is only fifty steps, hundred feet, yes, not more than that.

Prabhupada: [Transl. So as you want it will be done.]

Indian man (1): [Transl. Arrangement has to be made.]

Indian man (8): [Transl. In that hall at least 100/150 people…It's little far.]

Indian man (1): [Transl. Come tomorrow again.]

Indian man (2): [Transl. There will be no kirtana now?]

Tamala Krsna: It's raining again.

Prabhupada: You have shown our books to these gentlemen?

Tamala Krsna: We have a few books here.

Prabhupada: Hmm. You can show some of them.

Indian man (2): [Transl. Kirtana is very nice. Now it's 6:15 only.]

Indian man (8): [Transl. Kirtana can be performed now?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Do it.] You can perform kirtana here.

Indian man (2): [Transl. There is a hall here. It will be very nice there.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. In the hall?] So go to the hall and begin kirtana immediately. You can go.

Indian man (2): [Transl. Five to six is okay.]

Indian man (8): Tomorrow. Tomorrow evening, five till six. So you can go and have kirtana.

Indian man (1): Right now, right now. Guruji said we can go to the... [laughter]

Prabhupada: [chuckling] You can go and have kirtana.

Indian man (7): But we can start here also.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Indian man (7): Here for some time...

Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Oh, yes.

[kirtana begins] [break]

Prabhupada: Sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Transl. The Supreme Personality of Godhead Himself comes to teach us how to be attached to Him. yada yada hi dharmasya glanir bhavati bharata. [Bg. 4.7] This is the declination of religion. When our attachment to the Supreme Lord is lost, that is declination. tadatmanam srjamy aham. [Bg. 4.7] The Supreme Lord personally comes. paritranaya sadhunam vinasaya ca duskrtam [Bg. 4.8] But who cares for Him? If someone hears Him then his life will be successful. First of all they deny God by saying "He is formless. That's all. The description of His forms is all imaginary." This Akhanḍananda, he says these are all imaginary. What did God do? What is His fault so that He has no form? The Supreme Lord says "I am the father of everyone.]

[Transl. I am the seed giving father. So I am present with a form, but my father has no form. We have form. Did we dropped down from the sky? Is it possible that you have got form but your father has got no form? Is this possible? What a foolishness! The Supreme Personality of Godhead is the father of all. We have form but He has no form? This is going in your country. Is it reasonable? You will say "I haven't seen Him." You seen your grandfather and great grandfather. So were they formless? If it is said that your great grandfather had no form, will you accept it?

[Transl. So how will you see God? Even hogs and asses have form, but God has no form! Tell me what reply you have. You have been living here since thirty years. How can God be formless? Answer? This is going on. The Supreme Lord says manmana bhava mad bhakta. [Bg 18.65] Always think of Me. If He has no form then how to fix the mind on Him? Hmm? My father has a form and I can think of him. But when there is no form then how can I think of? That's why the Supreme Lord has said kleso 'dhikataras tesam [Bg. 12.5]

[Transl. Nobody can think of formless, but they forcibly want to do that. So they end up in miseries only. No other gain. "Meditate on formless". It is not mentioned in the sastra. The yogis, those who are genuine, they don't meditate on formless. They meditate on the Lord's Visnu form within their hearts. dhyanavasthita-tad-gatena manasa pasyanti yam yogino [SB 12.13.1]

The Supreme Lord Himself says yoginam api sarvesam mad-gatenantar-atmana [Bg. 6.47] [Transl. Forget all that. How can you meditate on the formless? Answer? There will be trouble only. No meditation, only trouble. The Lord says man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru [Bg. 18.65] Who listens to Him? Everyone shows off their own mastery. Whatever is written in the sastra, whatever the Supreme Lord says, you follow and everything will be alright. sravanam kirtanam visnoḥ This is the process.]

[Transl. Nine-fold devotional service. You asked a good question and this is the answer. If you follow the process, you will develop attachment quickly.

[Transl. Attachment, first of all sraddha or faith. The meaning of the word "sraddha" is given by Srila Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami as sraddha'-sabde-visvasa kahe sudrḍha niscaya krsne bhakti kaile sarva-karma krta haya [Cc. Madhya 22.62] You understand Bengali little bit?]

Indian man (1): [Transl. I can understand little.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. adau sraddha, It should begin with sraddha. What is sraddha? The word 'sraddha' is explained by Srila Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami sraddha'-sabde-visvasa kahe sudrḍha niscaya. When faith becomes firm, with full confidence, that is called sraddha. That the Supreme Personality of Godhead is saying sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg. 18.66] one who will accept this that whatever the Supreme Lord is saying is right, that is called sraddha. The process starts from that point. If we don't have faith that by following what the Supreme Lord says our life will become perfect, then where is sraddha? There is no sraddha. "Let God speak as He likes, I will do what I like. He is formless." So such a person doesn't have sraddha in the first place. Adau sraddha, what the Supreme Lord is saying is correct. We should follow it. Adau sraddha. Then the sraddha should be increased. Suppose someone wants to do a business. "I will do this business." That is sraddha. Then he has to associate with people who are already engaged in that business. Is it not? Therefore adau sraddha tatha sadhu sahga. And the definition of sadhu is given in the Bhagavad-gita, bhajate mam ananya-bhak sadhur eva sa mantavyaḥ [Bg. 9.30]

[Transl. He is a sadhu. A person who does not worship the Supreme Lord, he is a thief. So you should associate with a person who is engaged in the service of the Supreme Lord. Sadhur eva sa. Others are not sadhu. Simply by keeping long beard one doesn't become a sadhu. This is what the Supreme Lord says! bhajate mam ananya-bhak sadhur eva sa mantavyaḥ Such a person is sadhu. These considerations are there in the sastra. Giving up scriptural injunctions and acting whimsically will not yield any result. The only gain will be that such persons will be regarded as religious. Dharmadhvaji [hyprocrite]. You saw flag? They carry a flag that "We are very pious." Elsewhere the Supreme Lord says,]

[Transl. One who abandons the scriptural injunctions and works whimsically, he will never attain perfection of life. Na siddhim avapnoti, na sukham, neither will he achieve happiness. Na param gatim, leave alone the supreme destination. So the Supreme Lord personally comes and instructs "Do like this". And the devotees of the Lord are practicing accordingly. That is sadhu-sahga, and learn from them bhajana-kriya or how to follow the rules and regulations of devotional services. Then comes anartha nivrttiḥ. All those causes because of which the unwanted things have accumulated in the heart will be vanquished. Then comes nistha, ruci, then asakti. That is the stage.] [end]