Room Conversation – November 1, 1972, Vṛndāvana

721101R1-VRNDAVAN [57:24 Minutes]

Inconceivable one and different simultaneously

Acyutananda: Gauracandra Gosvami is telling Prabhupada that ah, that it started raining just so that the kirtana would happen in front of Damodara and then it stopped raining so that we could go back into the samadhi grounds. Actually he was just trying to get us out of the front courtyard. Prabhupada said, "wherever there is... Whenever there is kirtana it is in front of Lord Damodara."

Anandamoya: Srila Prabhupada, I would like to ask you if it is possible to receive initiation from you.

Prabhupada: Eh? What is that question?

Devotee: Again? Louder.

Anandamoya: I would like to ask you if it is possible if you can give me initiation?

Prabhupada: Initiation.

Devotee: Initiation.

Anandamoya: Yes.

Prabhupada: Wherefrom you are coming?

Anandamoya: I have been six months in Calcutta, my home is in France and I met some members of the society some of the disciples in Bihar. I was touring in India with [indistinct] for one year about and fortunately I met some members there near [indistinct] Madhura. Madhuriya [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Madhupur.

Anandamoya: Madhupur.

Guru Kripa: Madhuroy.

Prabhupada: Madurai.

Guru Kripa: It was a large pandal function.

Prabhupada: He has come with you?

Guru Kripa: Yes we met him there. [break]

Yasodanandana: …with us to Cuttack and Mayapur. And he lived for three. He tried for some time then he followed all the principles and regulations for the last six months and he shaved up his head after a few days and he has been keeping on regularly doing preaching outside every day.

Prabhupada: So you recommend him?

Gurudasa: Yes we recommend him.

Yasodanandana: [indistinct] serious.

Prabhupada: Then [indistinct]

Gurudasa: Bhavananda has also recommended him.

Yasodanandana: Also [indistinct] has been initiated by Your Divine Grace a few months ago or a year ago and I think he's very much fit for brahmin. [indistinct] Gayatri.

Prabhupada: So where is he?

Yasodanandana: A tall boy, Pancajanya very tall, tall boy,

Prabhupada: Ah.

Yasodanandana: he's the tall boy

Prabhupada: Ah.

Yasodanandana: very serious. [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Ah where he is now?

Yasodanandana: He is now [break]

Mahamsa: Can you tell us something about the philosophy of... is there any difference in the philosophies of the four sampradayas?

Prabhupada: Not very. Caitanya Mahaprabhu has summarised all the Vaisnava philosophies in acintya-bhedabheda-tattva.

Simultaneously one and difference. Some of the philosophers they say maya and Krsna they are different. Some of them says maya although different is attached with... Is Krsna's...

Maya is Krsna's energy therefore different and non-different. Suddha-advaita, dvaita-advaita, visista-advaita, Madhvacarya dvaita-vada. Then Ramanujacarya visista-advaita, Nimbarka dvaita-advaita, in this way there are... Practically all of them are worshippers of Radha and Krsna, Laksmi-Narayana. There is not very much difference but little distinction. But Caitanya Mahaprabhu has summarised all of them acintya-bhedabheda-tattva-inconceivable one and different simultaneously.

Maya is different from Krsna at the same time not different from Krsna. Because maya has no separate existence, therefore not different from Krsna. But maya when she plays differently... Different from Krsna. Just like jail department is the criminal department of the government. Therefore this department is not different from the government but that does not mean the government is criminal.

This is the way to understand it. Criminal department is not different from government but that does not mean government is criminal. Similarly maya is not different from Krsna, that does not mean that Krsna is under maya.

Mahamsa: He is controlling maya?

Prabhupada: Yes. Krsna has got connection with maya as controller and we have got connection with maya as controlled,

Mahamsa: Controlled.

Prabhupada: …that is the difference. In the broader sense nothing is different from Krsna. That is explained in Bhagavad-gita, mat-sthani sarva-bhūtani na [ca] ham tesv avasthitaḥ [Bg 9.4] "everything is resting on Me but I am not there."

The same example, the criminal department he is resting on the government but the government is not criminal. This is called acintya-bhedabheda-tattva, simultaneously one and different-inconceivable by us. That visistadvaita, Ramanujacarya, he says that "God maya and the jiva all together are the absolute truth." That is called visistadvaita.

Mahamsa: That is the Ramanujacarya-sampradaya?

Prabhupada: Yes Ramanuja. And Madhvacarya dvaita-vada, "God is different from jivas and maya," that is dvaita-vada. And someone dvaita-advaita, different and non-different like acintya-bhedabheda. In this way different acaryas have explained the same thing in a very explicit way according to their… But all of them are Vaisnava philosophy.

Acyutananda: Srila Prabhupada, are all these sampradayas still bona-fide at the present time?

Prabhupada: No some of them [indistinct]. Now Gauḍiya Vaisnavas there are many Mayavadis. [laughs] There are many Mayavadis, this Babajis they are almost Mayavadis. Sahajiyas.

Pancadraviḍa: In the Bhagavata it is said that, "just as the birds fly in the air according to their capacity so the great sages may explain the absolute truth according to their realization." So is this why the different acaryas they explain different concepts?

Prabhupada: Not different concepts, in different ways.

Pancadraviḍa: Is it because of [indistinct]?

Prabhupada: It can be understandable that I have already explained. That the visistadvaita-maya, jiva, and Krsna are taken together, they are one. Diversity in unity, they are all one but there is diversity. The University department, the criminal department, the judicial department there are so many departments of the government but altogether they are one. This is visistadvaita.

[break] the Vedic literature say, eko brahma dvitiya nasti, "there is only one Brahma." sarvam hy etad brahma [Manḍūkya Upanisad 2], "everything is Brahma." It is not difficult to understand that this is also government but government is not there. Not that because that if you say this criminal department is also government, that does not mean that the whole governments are criminal. Government is not at all criminal they have nothing to do with the criminality but the department is government.

What do you think? How do you adjust?

Pancadraviḍa: Well Mahaprabhu he has explained it.

Prabhupada: Ah.

Pancadraviḍa: Very clearly.

Prabhupada: Ah. Because the government maintains the criminal department it should not be understood that government is under criminal department, because Krsna maintains maya that does not mean that Krsna is under…, mayam ca tad-apasrayam The maya is the backside, apasrayam. Adharma, adharma-irreligiosity is described as the backside of Krsna. As I have got my backside, dharma, adharma. The front side of Krsna is called dharma, the backside of Krsna is adharma. That means adharma is also there in Krsna and then… because adharma is also maintained by Krsna and Krsna is not adharma.

[break] Krsna is not adharma the Mayavadis philosophers say, "there is no difference between maya and Krsna." There is so many different philosophical opinions but we take Caitanya Mahaprabhu's conclusion: acintya-bhedabheda, simultaneously one and different. Because maya is maintained by Krsna therefore there is no difference between Krsna and maya, but still Krsna is not under maya. What is the difficulty to understand?

Devotee: Srila Prabhupada when…

Prabhupada: Another example can be given that now there is darkness but the sun is also there, within this universe the sun is there and the darkness is there but sun is not under darkness. At the present moment the darkness is there and the sun is also there. This darkness means absence of sun so it is relative with sun because there is no sun it is darkness.

Therefore the darkness is dependent on sun. The sun is not dependent on the darkness, because there is some barrier, some obstacles, for passing the sunlight on this earth. This earth is now dark, so the darkness has no independent existence. In other words because the sunlight is checked therefore there is darkness. So darkness is not important neither darkness, this darkness can cover the sun. Otherwise darkness is also there and sun is also there but sun is not affected by darkness.

We are affected a portion of the fractional part of Krsna's body part and parcel, is covered by darkness. They are under material conditions but Krsna is never under material conditions. The Mayavadi philosophers will say, "because Krsna has come before us".

[Door opens] [Aside:] what is that?

Indian Devotee: [Hindi] [break]

Prabhupada: "Because Krsna has come here therefore He is also in darkness," that is Mayavadi philosophy. Suppose the governor goes to inspect the jail the business of governor is also prison, because he has come into the jail. So what is the difference between him and them? Avajananti mam mūḍha [Bg 9.11], immediately he is already mūḍhaḥ and he becomes more mūḍhaḥ.

He does not know, just like Dr. Radhakrishnan says, "it is not to Krsna but something within Krsna." Because he thinks that Krsna is just like us. He does not know what is Krsna and still he dares to write comment on Krsna's saying. He becomes more mūḍhaḥ, instead of becoming enlightened he becomes mūḍhaḥ. Without knowing Krsna he describes Krsna. So we should not take, what is Krsna from such mūḍhaḥ. [indistinct] Sanatana Gosvami has forbidden-not to hear from the avaisnava who does not know Krsna.

"Avaisnava cannot describe Krsna. Not… or neither by his description one can understand Krsna."

Yasodanandana: What about that Ramakrishna? When I was in South India I met many people they seemed to place so much faith upon him. But seeing this philosophy that they are propounding it is not so much sound. This RamaKrsna, what is the fate of such kind of person? What is the actual fate? Destination?

Prabhupada: Ramakrishna?

Yasodanandana: Hm.

Prabhupada: Mission?

Yasodanandana: Hm.

Prabhupada: So if you go to a quock [quack].

Devotees: [laugh] [indistinct]

Guru Kripa: Quack?

Devotees: [laugh more]

Prabhupada: That is your misfortune there are many doctors but [indistinct] still go to a quack.

Devotees: [laugh more]

Prabhupada: What [indistinct]? That is your misfortune, why do you go to a quack? If there are so many doctors.

Devotees: [laughing]

Yasodanandana: He has misled so many people.

Prabhupada: Everyone, misleading is there already but why should you be misled?

Yasodanandana: I am not misled.

Prabhupada: No I mean to say the person who is misled. And his question is, "what is the value of this." You are misled, he is misleader, what to talk about this? And if we talk and if we tell the truth then people will be angry. Mūrkhayopadeso hi prakopaya na santaye [Hitopadesa 3.4], "you cannot pacify a rascal by giving good instruction. He will be more angry. Better avoid."

Gurudasa: Srila Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Gurudasa: You said, "by his description he cannot be understood." Do you mean by adhoksaja?

Prabhupada: Eh?

Gurudasa: You said, "by his description he cannot be understood."

Prabhupada: By his description.

Gurudasa: You were just saying that.

Prabhupada: Adhoksaja means you cannot describe, by your sense perception. We describe that this is a thing, we can describe this is white this is… solid, this is just like, so many things we can say by seeing by tasting. Krsna is not like that, therefore His name is Adhoksaja.

Because you can describe this things material because it is material, but Krsna is not material, therefore by our material senses we cannot describe. Whatever we are describing about Krsna we are describing from Krsna. Not that by our knowledge we are describing-therefore He is Adhoksaja.

He cannot be described by my blunt senses. That is not. We describe Krsna as He describes Himself. We don't describe by our sense perception. We say Krsna is the supreme because we understand from Krsna, Krsna says that, "I am the supreme." Now argument may be that everyone can say, "I am supreme." Then everyone should be accepted by his word, no. It must be confirmed by the acaryas that is parampara system.

Krsna says "supreme" and Krsna is confirmed as supreme by Vyasadeva, by Narada, by the acaryas, by Caitanya so we are poor fellow we understand in this way. What is the difficulty? Krsna says "I am supreme," and He is accepted by our predecessor acaryas so where is the difficulty? Hm?

Where is the difficulty? There is no difficulty.

Devotee: Srila Prabhupada, may I raise a question?

Prabhupada: Hm?

Devotee: In the fourth chapter in the fifth Canto it explains about Vyasadeva's appearance and it says that when Vyasa appeared there was an interchange of the millennium where the third millennium appeared before the second, ah and I never understood that.

Prabhupada: Dvapara. dvaparante, dvaparante means in the beginning of the Dvapara-yuga. Dvaparante [indistinct]?

Devotee: It says that, that ah, there was an interchange of the millennium's.

Prabhupada: Hm.

Devotee: Where the third millennium appeared before the second millennium.

Prabhupada: Hm… Yes.

Devotee: When Vyasa made his appearance.

Prabhupada: [indistinct] dvapara means the second millennium, and treta means the third millennium. So in the beginning of dvapara He appeared, ante. The example is given, just like the tree begins from the root and the top of the tree is called top-but actually there is no top, the top is the root. So it is beginning from there, in this way there are some descriptions.

[aside] How long it will remain so? No light? [break]

Devotee: …the founder of Raghu-vamsa so I just wanted to. I was wondering, you know we chant this prayer from Caitanya-caritamrta, rama raghava, rama raghava.

Prabhupada: Rama raghava.

Devotee: Rama raghava, rama raghava.

Prabhupada: Hm.

Devotee: That raghava does that mean raghu-vamsa. raghu dynasty?

Prabhupada: Yes. Raghava, raghu from raghu raghava comes.

Devotee: So which end Balarama or Lord Ramacandra?

Prabhupada: Hm?

Devotee: Is that prayer to Balarama or is it to Lord Ramacandra? The Rama of the raghu?

Prabhupada: No when you say rama raghava, means Lord Ramacandra. Therefore it is said rama raghava.

Devotee: rama raghava

Acyutananda: In Hyderabad that was a conjecture that Hare Krsna Hare Krsna, Hare Rama.

Prabhupada: Ah.

[aside] Why don't you open that? Eh? Hm?

Acyutananda: That Hare Rama does it mean Radha Ramana or does it mean Balarama?

Prabhupada: No. Rama. Hare Rama. Rama means-who enjoys, enjoyer, ramante. Ramante yogino 'nante satyanande cid-atmani iti rama [Cc Madhya 9.29]. Rama means Ramana also-enjoyer. Rama means Lord Ramacandra, Rama means Balarama so different positions we can accept. Different.

Devotee: Also someone…

Prabhupada: You say Radha-Ramana.

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupada: You can say Radha-Rama-the same meaning. Radha-Ramana or Radha-Rama now if even Lord Rama can come Radha.

Acyutananda: Many people say that Radharani does not appear in the Srimad-Bhagavatam, there is no mention.

Prabhupada: [indistinct]

Acyutananda: Yes. [break] I once heard you explain to somebody where this is mentioned exactly.

Prabhupada: Hm? Aradhyate, anayaradhyate, when the gopis saw that Krsna had been separated with Radharani then they understood that She worships Krsna more than anyone. So the gopi who worships Krsna, satisfies Krsna more than others that is Radharani. Aradhate, aradhyate it is Radha, Radha, aradhyate.

Devotee: Hm. [indistinct]

Prabhupada: So the gopi who worships Radharani more than the other gopis he sees Radharani. So why, how can you say that there is no mention of Radharani?

Devotee: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: We have to follow.

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupada: Not some of the people, we follow the Gosvamis the acaryas.

[Whispering]

Devotee: Srila Prabhupada, about three months I wrote to you about a man who wanted to donate some land to us in Bihar?

Prabhupada: Hm?

Devotee: About 25 acres.

Prabhupada: Hm.

Devotee: He's just written to me again today about that. He says, "my dear Sri Swamiji, I received your letter dated the 21st of September 1972 along with the documents enclosed there with. I send you my constitution rules, regulations, memorandum of association…

Prabhupada: That's nice.

Devotee: …tax exemptions form.

I will be extremely happy to donate land for construction of the temple, its upkeep and devotional activities of your society. The government of Bihar has in the meanwhile promulgated an ordinance banning transfer of lands. I however hope that the difficulties created by this ordinance through Lord Krsna's grace can be overcome. The land can be transferred with the permission of the collector Sahabad but some one on behalf of the society will have to approach him for this commission.

I would be obliged if you could send me a list of life members of the society. Could you also send me a copy of the latest annual statement of income and expenditures of your… of the society. This will enable me to have some idea of the society's financial position and [indistinct] activities. Yours in the service of the Lord, L. Dayal."

Prabhupada: First of all find out man, who is managing there?

Devotee: That is the problem. [laughs]

Prabhupada: You can have many lands like that… 25 acres of land?

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupada: We can accept land anywhere provided we have got bona-fide preachers. That is our mission, we can start a center anywhere provided we can preach. That is our mission, it is not our mission to own some land. What we shall do with the land?

Devotee: The land would simply be for farming and earning some income. [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Anyway. Income is not our mission, our mission is to preach. Income is required to maintain, so suppose we get some land we must be a preaching center there. Even we do farm we cannot avoid our preaching work.

Devotee: This land is situated by a small village it is not a populated area.

Prabhupada: It may be. It may not be a populated here…area, but we must have a center so that people may come there.

Devotee: Yes he wants a small temple there so that the local people may come and benefit by the temple activities.

Prabhupada: Therefore we require a preacher.

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupada: At least one two preachers.

Devotee: Yes.

Prabhupada: So then we... so who is prepared to go there? And then preach you do not know the language. How you will preach? They won't be able to understand English.

Devotee: No.

Prabhupada: Then how you will preach? First of all find out a preacher, 1, 2, 3, 4 preachers that's it. Then we can manage. Otherwise what is the use of taking land? Preaching must be there, or are you going to plough on that land?

Devotees: [laugh]

Devotee: No.

Devotees: [laugh more]

Prabhupada: Then? Then what is the use?

Acyutananda: Jayapataka.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Devotee: Jayapataka Maharaja has been there.

Prabhupada: Jayapataka [indistinct] side-by-side he is supervising the building construction and at the same time… that's nice. But he has not gone there to plough.

Devotees: [laugh]

Prabhupada: That is not his business.

Acyutananda: Somebody said Jayapataka ali.

Devotees: [laugh]

Prabhupada: [laughs] who said?

Devotee: [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Eh?

Acyutananda: Tamal Krsna Goswami.

Prabhupada: What is the meaning of ali?

Acyutananda: Because all the Mohammadan's there, their name is Ali. And there the culture is agriculturalist. So he is ploughing next to them side-by-side. So Tamal Krsna Goswami said Jayapataka Ali.

Devotees: [laugh]

Prabhupada: Ali means the gopi.

Acyutananda: Jaya.

Prabhupada: Then Tamal Krsna has blessed him to become one of the gopis.

Devotees: [laughter]

Acyutananda: Yeah.

Gurudasa: Ali-Krsna like Kaliya-Krsna?

Prabhupada: Yeah.

Yasodanandana: What is the diff...

Prabhupada: Jaya radha-madhava…

Acyutananda: One of the Mohammadan farmers there…

Prabhupada: Ah.

Acyutananda: …was describing how he met Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati. He used to walk into the Mohammadan village and he said when he was a little boy he patted him on the head.

Prabhupada: Hm?

Acyutananda: Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati patted him on the head. And he said that, "wherever Bhaktisiddhanta used to sit down it seemed like the whole scenery was centred around him. He was so magnificent." He was telling. He tied up his cloth like a sannyasi and he showed how he used to walk into the village. "He wouldn't look at anything directly but he would be looking at a distance," he was explaining.

Pancadraviḍa: I understand they liked him very much because he would even take water from the hands of Mohammadan's...

Prabhupada: But what is their attitude towards our men?

Acyutananda: Very nice.

Prabhupada: That's nice.

Acyutananda: In fact this Mohammadan's father owned the land which is on Srivasa-ahgan and he gave it to Bhaktisiddhanta free because they had lots of land at that time. So he gave it to [indistinct]

Prabhupada: So they are coming and taking prasadam?

Acyutananda: Yes.

Prabhupada: That's nice. Both men and women?

Acyutananda: Yes. They say Hare Krsna to us.

Prabhupada: Oh. That's nice. That is our mission chant Hare Krsna and take prasadam and go home.

Devotees: [laugh]

Prabhupada: …and if you like you can stay with us, as you like.

Acyutananda: Ah.

Devotee: It is very sublime.

Prabhupada: Hm?

Devotee: It is very sublime.

Prabhupada: Yes. Before starting this movement I was always thinking that their Communist Party, there are so many political parties and we cannot form any party? Our method is so nice: chant Hare Krsna dance and take prasadam. What is the difficulty in forming a party?

Hare Krsna party, so now it has come in formation to expand this formation. Please come, chant Hare Krsna dance and take prasadam. What is the difficulty? And gradually when he is settled up he will understand the philosophy whatever [indistinct]. In the beginning he will not understand. What is that, a mouse?

Devotees: A mouse.

Yasodanandana: It sat under your feet then she went away.

Devotees: [laugh]

Pancadraviḍa: How does a maha-bhagavata see this kind of a mouse?

Prabhupada: A living entity.

Pancadraviḍa: As a part and parcel of Krsna?

Prabhupada: Oh yes and actually it is so. He has got a different dress only. Suppose there are many gentlemen we don't see the dress you see so many gentlemen that is all. Don't discriminate them because one has got different dress from another. Is it not?

Similarly, panḍitaḥ sama-darsinaḥ [Bg 5.18] panḍitaḥ who is learned he sees everyone is Krsna's part and parcel but he is playing differently, just like an actor on the stage by different dress playing [indistinct]. Otherwise they are one.

Mahamsa: When the part and parcel is acting very much in ignorance and suppose like for example it is trying to take away your prasadam or it is trying to bite you or something like that then...

Prabhupada: You take care.

Pancadraviḍa: You can defend?

Prabhupada: That's all. But you must see that he is part and parcel. Just like your child suppose he is doing something mischief do you discard him? You take care of him. And you take care that the child may not commit any mischief. That is your duty but you cannot say, "because this child is creating some disturbance cut his throat." You cannot say that.

Mahamsa: Whew. So if there are mosquitoes who are troubling.

Prabhupada: Same [indistinct].

Mahamsa: Same…

Prabhupada: If there is mosquitoes you have a mosquito curtain but you cannot kill them. That is the principle.

Mahamsa: Yes.

Prabhupada: Anyone, you take precautions you have got human brain, you take precaution that they may not create mischief. But they by nature they have got a body of like that-but because they have a different body you cannot kill them. Although it is said when one is an aggressor, you can kill.

But these animals although they aggress they have no intelligence. The same example, a child is committing mischief. Because it has no intelligence and because it has no intelligence therefore you cannot kill. That should be our position, these animals even ferocious animals, they are all different parts and parcels of God Krsna, you should see like that. But because they are under different… If you look [indistinct]. So if you know them that they are part and parcel of Krsna but behave with them differently as far as possible not by killing.

Killing means, he has been given a body to undergo the imprisonment for certain time if you kill then you prolong the time he has to again accept that body. You become criminal therefore because you are checking in his business. By nature's way he has been engaged in a certain type of business if you kill, he is not killed but he has to take another body. Therefore you are checking his progress, just like you cannot interfere with anyone prisoner that is criminal.

So many laws of nature, laws of God they are so fine that imperceptibly we are committing so many sinful activities but if you keep yourself surrendered to Krsna in Krsna consciousness Krsna protects you but you become subjected to criminality, aham tvam sarva-papebhyo moksayisya [Bg 18.66].

Suppose you are walking on the street you are killing so many animals, but a devotee he is protected by Krsna, [indistinct] non devotee is becoming subjected to that criminal action--killing. That is the difference. You are killing also, an ordinary man also killing but you are killing not knowingly, you are going on Krsna's business for preaching. So you are killing but because you are going to Krsna's business Krsna is protecting you from the sinful reaction. That is the difference, but the sinful reaction is there, either the devotee or non devotee.

But the devotee willingly does not do any sinful activity. If there is some sinful activity in the course of his business then he is protected by Krsna, that is the difference. Therefore the conclusion is to save oneself from all kinds of nonsense sinful activities one MUST become Krsna consciousness otherwise he is subject to criminality. This is the conclusion. Unless you become Krsna conscious he is subject to so many criminal activities he suffers. Even knowingly or unknowingly.

So, krsna-nama kara bhai ara saba miche, palaibara patha nai yama ache piche. Yamaraja is noting down, "Ah he has done [indistinct] sinful activities you have to punished." You do not know, just like the police takes note of your car, next day you have to go to the court, "oh I did not know." And it happened.

Devotees: [laugh]

Prabhupada: So we have no other alternative than to become Krsna conscious, otherwise you will be foiled by police actions so many ways, so many times. Tell them frankly.

Mahamsa: Yeah.

Prabhupada: That if you don't become Krsna conscious then your life is doomed. However you may be learned and very scholarly, palaibara patha nai yama ache piche. He is noting down.

Devotee: One might say a devotee…

Prabhupada: Neither you can commit sinful activities because Krsna is…

Devotee: Sin. Yes.

Prabhupada: No that is also another sin.

Devotee: aparadha to the Bhagavad-gita.

Prabhupada: Krsna is giving you protection for your criminal activities which are being done in the course of executing Krsna's order or unknowingly, that is not your fault. Therefore Krsna is giving protection.

But if you think, "let me do something criminal for my sense gratification Krsna is there he will protect me," oh that is the greatest criminality. Namno balad yasya hi papa-buddhiḥ, that is not excused.

Mahamsa: Sometimes a devotee falls into maya, does Krsna protect him then?

Prabhupada: Yes. He'll protect. If he is actually…, but if he is cheating Krsna.

Mahamsa: Knowingly?

Prabhupada: Knowingly, he is going to some sinful activities and he is cheating his spiritual master and Krsna, "oh I'm going to chant Hare Krsna." Then that is cheating, you cannot cheat Krsna that is not possible, that is not possible.

Mahamsa: He is only cheating himself.

Prabhupada: Yes, you cannot cheat Krsna. Just like Hiranyakasipu he wanted to cheat Krsna he'll not die, but he cheated himself. He forgot to ask for one benediction that, "I shall not die on the lap of Hiranya."

Devotees: [laugh]

Devotee: Nrsimhadeva.

Prabhupada: Err…Nrsimhadeva. That he forgot.

Devotees: [laugh]

Prabhupada: But Krsna made him forgetful, mattaḥ smrtir jnanam apohanam ca. [Bg 15.15] While he was speaking playing tricks, Krsna played a trick, that he forgot to ask for this benediction, apohanam ca. So this is the explanation, people ask that how Krsna makes one forgetful?

He has got some business to make him forgetful. It is not without purpose, just like Hiranyakasipu was forgetful to ask this benediction that, "I shall not die even on the lap of Nrsimhadeva." That how you can do? There are so many tricks of Krsna and how many you can remember?

Devotees: [laugh]

Prabhupada: Is not possible.

Mahamsa: [indistinct] on the hand or anywhere I heard.

Prabhupada: But these rascals they think that, "we are more intelligent than Krsna."

Devotee: Hm.

Prabhupada: That is illusion. He is never more intelligent than Krsna. That is his position. But he thinks that he is more intelligent than Krsna. That is illusion. He thinks that by this way I shall play a trick with Krsna but that is impossible.

You cannot play a trick with Krsna, that is not possible. You cannot, you must be very clean and open to Krsna's sincere servant that is our business, then all protection will be there.

Devotee: What if someone wants to do service to Krsna but is it okay for me to do this service if I must exploit my Godbrother? There's no need…, does it matter if I hurt my Godbrother, if Krsna is protecting me, there will not be any reaction?

Prabhupada: Well how can you exploit your Godbrother? He is also engaged in some Krsna's business, so how can you exploit? Your Godbrother is not an ordinary human being, he is also serving the Lord. How you can exploit another servitor for your advancement? That is sense gratification.

There is no question of exploiting, as soon as there is question of exploiting that is sense gratification. In the spiritual world there is no such thing as exploitation, simply cooperation and appreciation. That is spiritual world. Instead of exploitation there should be exaltation.

Devotee: Hm.

Prabhupada: "Oh my Godbrother is so nice, he is doing so much service." This is not envy, in the material world if somebody does something more than oneself, he is envious. "Oh he is doing nice."

There is no enviousness there is open acceptance so, "my Godbrother or this devotee is so nice, he is doing so nicely how he can do it?" That is appreciation and exaltation, that is Vaikuntha world. You cannot become envious.

Mahamsa: Is there also competition in the spiritual world?

Prabhupada: Hm?

Mahamsa: Competition?

Prabhupada: Yes competition just like here, "oh [indistinct], this devotee has advanced so much I cannot do, let me follow his footsteps so then I can do." That's not competition.

[Aside: Hindi] [breaks]

[dialog continues in Hindi for several minutes, shenai in background]. [break]

Prabhupada: Sometime maybe.

Gurudasa: Alternating current.

Prabhupada: Neh. [?]

Gurudasa: Alternating on and off.

[dialog continues in Hindi].

Prabhupada: Have you got any photograph of my Guru Maharaja?

Indian Devotee: [Hindi]

Prabhupada: [dialog continues in Hindi] yes no very good.

Indian Devotee: [laughs]

Devotees: [laugh]

Indian Devotee: [Hindi] [break]

Prabhupada: I shall speak in both Hindi and English. Arjuna [Hindi]. One servant of the European… he was to go to home, so. [Hindi]. So he has to give one man to represent him to work. So he says, "how can I work for you?" [Hindi]. "I will teach you, I will teach you English don't bother." [Hindi]. "Now what is that?" [Hindi]. "Just learn three words." "What is that?" [Hindi]. "Yes no very good."

[laughter]

Devotee: Very simple.

Indian Devotee: Yes no very good.

Prabhupada: Yes no very good. [Hindi]. So he taught him three words that, "when you're master will say something first you say, 'yes'.". [Hindi]. "And if he again speaks something then say, 'very good'." So he learned three words, yes no very good. So after [Hindi]. He was missing something so he asked the servant, "where is my that thing, you have taken?" "Yes"

Devotees: [laugh]

Prabhupada: [Hindi]. Yes. He does not know, "now [indistinct] taken it return it here." "No."

Devotees: [laugh]

Prabhupada: [Hindi]. "Then I'm giving you to the police." "Very good."

[laughter]

Prabhupada: So when the police came. [Hindi]. I came here to serve now am going to the police. So, yes no very good.

Devotees: [laugh]

Prabhupada: Formerly when the Britishers came here they required assistance they could not bring so many Britishers. They had to manage office so any man, simply, "yes no very good," he would get a service. [end]