Room Conversation in Hindi – February 6, 1972, Bombay

720206R1-BOMBAY [30:05 Minutes]

What is the benefit of chanting Krsna's name?

Prabhupada: They say why are you looking for God somewhere else? All these people who are loitering on the street and starving they are God daridra-narayana. So, they won't believe the person who is actually God but they will believe this speculation, just see. Na mam prapadyante [Bg. 7.15] Krsna, Supreme Lord says krsnastu bhagavan svayam [SB 1.3.28] Krsna is God, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, such is the verdict of the scriptures.

So? They don't believe the real God but who do they believe? The living entities jivas which are part and parcel of the Supreme Lord they consider them God. That is why specifically Krsna says, Krsna uvaca na mam, He says that everyone should surrender unto only His lotus feet, not others. Deviation from this order is the origin of all demonic tendency and the Lord says why don't they surrender na mam prapadyante? Mudhah because they are mudhas, mudha means foolish like an ass. They don't have any intelligence any man without intelligence is considered an ass, bereft of all intelligence. Why are they compared to asses? Because they work hard all day long but not for oneself but for others. For the washer-man the ass does great labor and carries clothes but not for itself but for the others.

Therefore, the example of an ass is cited which is extremely foolish, that is why it is called an ass because it definitely renders great labor but there is nothing to be gained from it. So, na mam prapadyante mūḍhaḥ [Bg. 7.15] so why are they called asses, they may even be graduates from big colleges holding degrees of MA and PhD, so how can we call them asses? Because duskrtinah they may be highly educated but all they their work is sinful. They are interested in nothing but cheating, such as the lawyers and who is considered the biggest lawyer? Who knows how to cheat the best? How to hide the law and spin it around to solve their purposes they are considered the best of all lawyers.

These days who are considered to be great learned men and scientists? Those who can create an atom bomb to kill people. So these are duskrtinah, krti, krti means one who has a very good brain. But what are they using this brain for? Just to do something drastic and not for the benefit of the world. Such people are known as duskrtinah. Those people who are preaching the path of devotional service unto the Supreme Lord they are for the real benefit of the society to wake up those who have forgotten God because of having forgotten him they suffer in different ways. The preachers of devotional service contemplate and work one the means to engage such people in devotional service and this is known as sukrti, sukrti means those works which are for the betterment of the society not to trap the population in philosophies such as nationalism.

Recently, there has been a war between Pakistan and India hundreds of thousands of people were killed. Millions of rupees were wasted. But the leaders remained the same before and after the war, the Pakistani leader Yahya Khan at least he should have been hanged, it used to be then as soon as one disrespected the court just a little he was ordered to be hanged. What to speak of that? Gandhiji who was such a respectable and honored man, he was shot and killed. Why? Because all such things are happening they are being done by duskrti, duskrtinah and that is why they are called mūḍhas. So, all this fighting and cheating is going on and duskrtinah are those people whose brain is invested only in implicating others and causing them distress. Na mam prapadyante mūḍhaḥ so duskrtinas are people who are interested in malicious work duskarya.

Krti means those who accomplish great feats but for malicious purposes, otherwise it is sukarya for the benefit of people, in sukarya means those deeds which benefit the world. There are these two words sukrti and duskrti. So Krsna says na mam prapadyante mūḍhaḥ duskrtino naradhamaḥ [Bg. 7.15], naradhama means man who is just like animals. No, naradham means those who are extremely degraded. Degraded, more degraded and most degraded. Those who are of high standard they are known as uttama and those who are extremely fallen most fallen of the human society they are naradhamas who don't engage this human form of life in its sole purpose of worshiping the Supreme Lord.

The human form of life is not meant for working hard all day and night and then enjoying one's senses. Because working hard to arrange for food is done by the hogs as well. Such people are known as naradhama, because even the hogs work hard for food to eat. You may have seen here that the hogs roam about all day long looking for nothing but stool. This is why excessive hard work is not recommended. Nowadays it is preached that everyone should work hard, especially in an iron factory where there is extreme heat, only because they will get good salary there.

So, this is why they are called naradhama the lowest of mankind. They have the human form of life which they can use in establishing their relationship with the Supreme Lord but they employ themselves in a factory. Another category is duskrtinah the people who don't believe in rebirth. The way we act in this life, we will get the next life accordingly. Karmana, if we act in this life like dogs and hogs then in the next life we will have to come back as a hog. But this is not what they are taught, instead they are engaged in all nonsense activities.

So, these are foolish people, duskrtinah, andha yathandhair upaniyamanas [SB 7.5.31] one blind person is telling another blind person, let me help you cross the road and thus they become the leaders. This is how all of them will end up in the ditch. So the blind people fill in the ditch and so does the nationalist.

The nationalists preach that such and such a thing has happened and it shall happen again, so you should come with us. This is duskrtinah. Na mam they will not engage in devotional service. they are all duskrti, complete bereft from devotion unto the Supreme Lord:

Their activities are nothing but entertainment of the masses. Just like when the corpse is dressed up very nicely and taken out in a procession. What is the benefit in that? Loka-ranjanam, the same way the human form of life is meant for devotional service unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Such an activity is not meant for the hogs. A hog is simply interested in working hard all day long in search of stool and then eating it without discrimination. It can eat whatever it finds. So, just because the hog eats stool, we should too? No. the hog may eat stool but because we are human beings we are meant to eat the remnants of the Supreme Lord.

We should eat the remnants of the Supreme Lord prasada, yajna-sistasinaḥ santo mucyante sarva-kilbisaiḥ [Bg. 3.13], the act of accepting foodstuff after offering it to the Supreme Lord is known as yajna. Yajna means to satisfy the person yajna, and such a yajna purusa is the Supreme Lord. Therefore, it is a necessity for human beings to engage in yajna.

In the temple also, all these activities are the same, chapatis are cooked, so is the rice and sakha but for the Supreme Lord yajna-sistasinaḥ santo mucyante sarva-kilbisaiḥ [Bg. 3.13]. In this world, whether we want to or not, we are forced to commit sin. Just like we are walking down the street, we have no intention of killing but hundreds of ants die due to our stepping. That is sin. Not that just because we didn't know it won't be counted. It is sin regardless of our knowledge. That is why it is important for every human to perform yajna. Now, yajnar that which means that if you are walking on the street, you should walk for Krsna. You are going to the market you are going for Krsna and you are cooking, printing books, but everything is for Krsna. Such should be explained to people in general.

So, we all should engage in yajna and if you kill some ants in the process, the sin will not affect you. But bhunjate te tv agham papa ye pacanty atma-karanat [Bg. 3.13]. Those who shop for their own enjoyment. Just like thinking that today is Sunday, let's go out and enjoy, pacanty atma-karanat, not for Krsna but for the satisfaction of their own tongues bhunjate te tv agham papa, such people eat nothing but sin. Now, those who eat sin can they ever be happy? Such people simply become more and more sinful they will never attain happiness. This is why they are called naradhama.

Just like when you ask a hog to give up eating stool, that you will give him prasada, it will not give up. It will not consider it because it is a hog. So, the humans are explained as different, because they can possibly understand it. Therefore, a human being who cannot understand the need of behaving even after explaining the need for practicing devotional service and the Supreme Personality of Godhead, they are known as naradhama.

Na mam prapadyante mūḍhaḥ duskrtino naradhamaḥ [Bg. 7.15], so just like we have been explaining, there are many scholars, svamis, learned panditas, they have all read a lot about this and that. So these are known as mayaya apahrta-jnanah all these people have their knowledge stolen by illusion, maya. How so? Because they haven't understood the essence of all knowledge. Many people can speak nonsense from here and there but how is that useful? As long as he doesn't understand Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, his knowledge is without value.

The ultimate understanding of knowledge is veda, veda itself means knowledge. The person in knowledge is known as veda vit. So knowledge means, as said by the Lord in the Bhagavad gita, vedais ca sarvair aham eva vedyaḥ [Bg. 15.15] those who study the vedas and the Vedanta, Krsna says that their knowledge should conclude in aham eva vedyam, "to understand Me." What is Krsna? This should be understood and if a person has no understanding of Krsna then what is the use of studying the vedas and the Vedanta? Nothing, therefore Krsna says mayayapahrta-jnana [Bg. 7.15], one may have undergone a lot of tribulation by studying the veda and Vedantas but there is no essence in it because they failed to understand Krsna.

If a person fails to understand Krsna. Just the way Krsna says janma karma ca me divyam evam yo vetti tattvataḥ [Bg. 4.9]. Those who understand Krsna in essence, tattvataḥ why I come as the son of Devaki? Why I perform activities here? None of Krsna's activities are ordinary they are all divyam, transcendental. If Krsna come here and engages in war, and ordinary humans also wage war, so does that mean Krsna is same like any man? No. Even the name of God is transcendental, this should be understood janma karma ca me divyam whatever He does is transcendental. All of this in truth not just superficially. Superficial understanding is undesirable.

The Lord says that in order to understand this truth tad viddhi pranipatena pariprasnena sevaya [Bg. 4.34], to understand the Truth one has pranipat, surrender. Pranipatena pariprasnena upon pranipata surrendering one should inquire, not just offering obeisances, sevaya whom should one inquire from? From a guru, one should surrender unto a guru, satisfy him with service and then inquire. Not just to approach anyone and start inquiring, "can you please tell me?" Can anyone understand by having told? No. but you can see all these American and African boys and girls who preach all over the world. Just see their surrender and their service. Even if I say just now, "go, die for Krsna." They will give up their lives. So, this is :

Those who see the truth in essence, only they should be approached and accepted as a spiritual master. Not just out of fashion, "let's get us a guru too." They think of having a guru just like one has a dog. No one will benefit. One should accept a Guru whom one after offering obeisances one serves twenty four hours a day, and this is the concept.

So, just like the Supreme Lord says: daivi sampad vimoksaya [Bg. 16.5], what does vimoksa mean? Our real identity is that we are the spirit soul the part and parcel of the Supersoul and liberation or moksa is to become situated in our constitutional position. Currently, our position is not constitutional, we are wandering within 84000000 species of life because of which sometimes we are demigods, hogs, sometimes we are asses, sometimes American, Indian, Brahma or a sūdra. None of this is a constitutional position. According to the body we receive we create a designation.

So, vimoksaya, vimoksaya refers to moksa or liberation when a soul becomes established in its constitutional position. Now what is this svarūpa, the constitutional position? Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu says, jivera 'svarūpa' haya-krsnera 'nitya-dasa': [Cc. Madhya 20.108]. The constitutional position or svarupa of a living entity is to become an eternal servant of Krsna. As long as one is not situated in their constitutional position one may think "I am a hog" "I am American " "I am this, I am that." These are all foolish. Those who have understood that they are servant of God, they have a real understanding.

Jivera 'svarūpa' haya-nitya krsna dasa, we forget this that we are eternal parts and parcels of Krsna. We have to serve anyway, we may become servant of our country, a person may become the servant of their society, some serve their families, some serve their dogs, some serve their sheep and some their asses. So one will become a servant regardless. However, if one chooses to become the servant of God that is their constitutional position and one does one attain such a position? When one becomes free from all false designations, this position is known as mukti or the liberated stage. At this stage one considers oneself brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannatma [Bg. 18.54]. Those who know brahma, aham brahmasmi, it is not like when one realizes oneself as brahman then everything is finished. No. after that real activities of the person start.

Currently, we have not attained brahman realization. Right now we are engaged according to our false designation. We may consider ourselves as Pakistanis or Hindustanis according to the land upon which we are born and once identifying in this way we are engaged in quarrel. This is not brahman realization or our constitutional position. Then what is svarūpa realization, realization of our constitutional position. It is when we realize that we are servants of Krsna. As soon as we understand that we all are servants of God and upon understanding this we will know that everything is the property of the Supreme Lord. This leaves no room for further quarrels.

Everyone is a servant of God. The Supreme Lord maintains everyone, he maintains you and He maintains me tena tyaktena bhunjitha ma grdhaḥ kasya svid dhanam so that which is your quote why would I encroach upon it? And why would you try to take what's mine? I enjoy what God has allocated for me and you enjoy your allocation. In such a condition where is the room for quarrel?

So, this is the process, svarūpena vyavasthitiḥ: [SB 2.10.6], as soon as one reaches the liberated stage brahma-bhūtaḥ prasannatma, then na socati na kahksati [Bg. 18.54]. Those who are in Krsna consciousness, this knowledge about liberation is meant for the human beings. It is not for the donkeys, they will not be able to understand it. According to Srila Ramanujacarya it is means only for humans and according to the Supreme Lord Himself, manusyanam sahasresu kascid yatati siddhaye [Bg. 7.3], those who try to attain perfection siddhi, now why it has been said manusyanam sahasresu? Because Ramanujacarya says manusya sastra saphaladhikarya yajna, one those people will be known as humans who have authority over scriptures. This proves that scriptures are only meant for human beings. Just like Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu says, anadi-bahirmukha jiva krsna bhuli' gela [Cc. Madhya 20.117], anadi anadi means even before creation. The conditional living being is extrovert to Krsna since before creation anadi-bahirmukha jiva krsna bhuli' gela ataeva krsna veda-purana kaila [Cc. Madhya 20.117]. And because of their forgetfulness of God, Krsna the Supreme Lord has left the Bhagavad-gita for them. Through Arjuna he left the Bhagavad-gita so that the human beings may read them and try to come to Krsna. This is the purpose of the scriptures.

So, this is the meaning of being a human being. Those who read the Vedas and Vedanta, accept them in their lives by hearing and take advantage of them, is a human being. Otherwise, what is the difference between a human and an ass? The asses also work hard all day and night, they eat, produce children and then die. This is common for the asses and the hogs. So, what would be so different about man? Those who have the knowledge and authority of the scriptures and the proper qualification. In that calculation among brahmana, ksatriya, vaisya and sūdra the brahmana is the most qualified. Veda-pathad bhaved vipraḥ, those who have thoroughly studied the vedas, and pathan pathan. To remain a brahmana doesn't just mean to read oneself but also to teach others. Yajan yajan, to take donation and to donate to others, this is the duty of a brahmana.

So, the more scriptural knowledge one has to higher his position. Therefore, a brahmana a properly qualified brahmana guna-karma-vibhagasaḥ [Bg. 4.13], as there are qualifications of a brahmana there are qualifications of a kshatriya as well the same for a vaisya and a sūdra. All of that has been described in the Bhagavad gita.

Those who are brahmanas, samo damas tapaḥ saucam ksantir arjavam eva ca jnanam vijnanam astikyam brahma-karma svabhava-jam [Bg. 18.42], so everything is godly, and ultimately real godly behavior is to establish one's relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Deva Visnu bhakta… those who become devotees of anyone other than Visnu they are not considered deva, godly. Ravana, Ravana was a great devotee of Siva but he is known as a raksasa. Hiranyakasipu was a devotee of Brahma, and why was he called demonic? Because they were not devotees of Lord Visnu. Therefore, in the scriptures it has been spoken about Brahma, Visnu and Mahesa. Brahma, Vishnu and Siva and visnu-bhakto bhaved daivaḥ those who are devotees of visnu are daivas. They are wealthy with godly qualities. Yasyasti bhaktir bhagavaty akincana sarvair gunais tatra samasate suraḥ: in the scriptures it has been said that those who are devoted to Bhagavan, Bhagavan means Rama, ramadi-mūrtisu kala-niyamena tisthan [Bs. 5.39], those who are devotees of Krsna, devotees of Vishnu they are known as godly, daivi sampada. They are known as daivi sampada because they are inclined towards liberation daivi sampad vimoksaya nibandhayasuri mata, those who are demoniac, asuri matah, they are demoniac because they are atheist.

So, there are two types of people, visnu bhakto bhaved daiva asuras tad-viparyayaḥ, just like Hiranyakasipu and Kamsa are known as demons. Kamsa and Ravana are known as demons, they had all the material qualifications. Ravana himself was materially very qualified. He had created his Lanka out of Gold. Unlike here where everything is made of stone. He had everything made of Gold. At that time people used to eat on golden utensils. Now, they just have plastic plates. What to speak of golden plates his whole city was made of gold.

In America I have seen that there are big big houses and all of them are made of wood. One can forget about gold in such a place. Also, there all the time one can hear the tan tan tan.. the alarm of fire brigade because there are constant fire hazards all over the city. Sometimes, it is because of an electrical fault, and there is a place known as Beverly Hills in Los Angeles there people choose to live in house made of clay tiles. In our country the poor people are forced to stay in such houses. But in America the most rich people choose to live in such a way. That is their choice. What to speak of stone and clay tiles, Ravana was such an advanced materialist but what was his designation? Raksasa, a demon. Even now, you see whenever there is a Ram lila, Ravana is defamed? Why? What was his fault? He kidnapped Sitadevi? He thought why should Sita belong to God? They wish to neglect Rama and have Sita for themselves. They want to enjoy the property of God leaving Him neglected.

[Break] [end]