Room Conversation – December 13, 1970, Indore

701213R2-INDORE [54:32 Minutes]

Why Krsna is advising Arjuna to fight, to become violent?

Prabhupada: [japa] You have heard about our philosophy? You have heard about our philosophy?

Guest (1) (Indian man): Whatever I have read. But, you see, I don't believe what I have read. I believe only whatever I have talked to you, whatever you have said person to person.

Prabhupada: No, no, that is another thing. But still, what is your conception of our philosophy? What is that teaching?

Guest (1): Whose? Mine?

Prabhupada: No, as we are?

Guest (1): No, I have understood what I have heard from you. What is your conception of God I have not understood.

Prabhupada: Our conception of God is that He is a transcendental person. Īsvaraḥ paramaḥ krsnaḥ sac-cid-ananda-vigrahaḥ [Bs 5.1]. Īsvara means Lord. The Supreme Lord is a person. As you are person, He is also person, but He is the chief person. Nityo nityanam. He is the leader, and we are all led. Or He is the master; we are the servitors. That is our self-realization, to understand that "I am eternal servant of God." In Bhagavad-gita it is said, mamaivamso jiva-bhūtaḥ jiva-loke sanatanaḥ [Bg 15.7]

"Eternally all the living entities are My parts and parcels." So as the part and parcel of anything is to serve the cause of the whole, similarly, all living entities, their only business is to serve the Supreme. That is our.

Guest (1): Swamiji, there is one dispute that the ultimate Gita, as they say, [indistinct] only seven slokas. The rest of the Gita is... I don't know; this is the concept of..., amongst the people. Rest of the Gita has been written by [indistinct]. That is the concept amongst the people. Well, if Gita is written afterwards by Sri Vyasa[?], then...

Prabhupada: Then what?

Guest (1): Then just to prove that ultimate... [indistinct]. Suppose it is my doubt. There was a time for Lord Krsna to free Arjuna. All these things. According to me, when Lord Krsna was... [indistinct] Arjuna got into a trance. If we say that Lord Krsna has given the [indistinct] to Arjuna, but those who have not been so much accused, those who have [indistinct]. As a matter of fact, Arjuna went to the trouble [indistinct] That trance, what shall we call it? [indistinct] When the atma goes into the trance, the mind goes into the trance, and into the suddha-sattva, then he gets the vision of all-past, future and present.

Prabhupada: First thing that you said that Bhagavad-gita was given in seven verses, and later on, Vyasadeva has expanded. Now, suppose accepting that Vyasadeva has expanded, do you find any difference between Vyasadeva's explanation and the original seven verses?

Guest (1): No. Of course, that is [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Then, accepting even that Vyasadeva has expanded, so there is no difference. Therefore, even if we take the Bhagavad-gita as it is presented by Vyasadeva, so there is nothing to be said against it.

Guest (1): Nothing.

Prabhupada: Just like Caitanya Mahaprabhu, He gave us only eight verses, Siksastaka. But our Gosvamis, they have written volumes of books on that eight verses. But there is no difference of the writings of the Gosvamis and the original eight verses. That is not very important thing.

Guest (1): One more, sir. Lord Krsna has never asked Arjuna to sit and do this bhajana. He said, uttistha mam anusmara yuddhya [Bg 8.7] "Get up and remember me and fight! And fight! And fight! That fight, that is your right." That is...

Prabhupada: Yes. So fight with whom?

Guest (1): "Fight with your enemy."

Prabhupada: Who is your enemy?

Guest (1): Even physical, bodily, whatever it is, whatever it is. But you must know who are your enemies first. Your enemy may be my friend. [indistinct] Or my friend, my enemy, your friend. So [indistinct].

Prabhupada: That's nice proposal. Unless you find an enemy, how you can fight? [laughs] So of course, we do not say... We Vaisnavas do not say that there is no need of fighting. We never say. When there is need of fighting we must fight. Rather, somebody in New York, some Goldsmith, he was, "Why Krsna is advising Arjuna to fight, to become violent?" So somebody protests like that.

But there is no meaning of protesting against the action of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is our view. So we Vaisnavas, we are chanting. It does not mean that when there is need of fighting with avaisnava we shall lack in strength. We can fight. One gentleman inquired from me that "Vaisnavism makes one dull. He cannot act." And, "No. You have not seen a Vaisnava." In the two fightings, great fighting, the Ramayana and Mahabharata, the hero was Hanuman and Arjuna, and they fought.

Guest (1): They fought.

Prabhupada: Yes. And who can be better Vaisnava than them?

Guest (1): Nobody.

Prabhupada: So Vaisnava does not mean he is dull. No.

Guest (1): No, that is well proved. If there is need... [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Yes. So our present fighting is atheism, against atheism. They say, "There is no God," "God is dead." "I am God. You are God." We are fighting against these principles. So our fighting is very strong. You don't think that we are keeping idly. I have come here to fight with these atheists, you see, and we go everywhere.

We are fighting with atheists all over the world. So we are meeting so many opposing elements. You see? They say, "God is dead." In America, when I first went, they were popularizing theory that "God is dead." But they again accepted and: God is not only dead, but He is here with Swamiji." They accepted.

So these atheistic theories, that "Everyone is God," "I am God," "You are God," "God is dead," "There is no God," "God is not person"-we are fighting against these principles. We say, "God is Krsna. The Supreme Personality of Godhead is Krsna. He is a person, and He is not dead." This is our preaching. Therefore it is a fight.

Guest (1): He is not dead. He is not dead.

Prabhupada: How He can be dead? How you can think of like that, that God is dead? That is foolishness.

Guest (1): If you say God is dead, that means you are... That is your own ignorance. [indistinct]

Prabhupada: So we are fighting against this ignorance, so many ignorance. And at the present moment so many theories and religious principles have sprung up unnecessarily. You see? But we are sticking to the principle that the only religion is to surrender unto the Supreme Personality of Godhead. That is real religion: surrender.

Guest (1): Complete surrender. Complete surrender.

Prabhupada: Complete surrender. That is real religion. Krsna says, sarva-dharman parityjya mam ekam saranam vraja. Man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru [Bg 18.65]. These are Krsna's words. Bahūnam janmanam ante jnanavan mam prapadyate [Bg 7.19]. Prapadyate-that is surrender. Ye yatha mam prapadyante tams tathaiva bhajamy aham [Bg 4.11]. These words are there.

Guest (1): I like only the last slokas [indistinct], where Lord Krsna analyzes and then Arjuna [indistinct]. But to bring that mind and atma together, that process is called yoga.

Prabhupada: But you know that Krsna said, yoginam api sarvesam mad-gatenantaratmana [Bg 6.47] "Of all the yogis, one who is always thinking of Me within his mind, he is first class." Do you accept this?

Guest (1): Of all the yoginam?

Prabhupada: Yoginam api sarvesam: "Of all the yogis..." Yoginam api sarvesam. That is the last verse of the yoga chapter, sahkhya-yoga chapter. Yoginam... When Arjuna said that "This practice of astahga-yoga is not possible for me."

Guest (1): No, of course not.

Prabhupada: No, he said. When he said like that, Krsna answered, "Yes, but if you practice, it can be possible. But still, anyone..." He summarized the whole yoga process, yoginam api sarvesam: "Of all yogis, anyone who is thinking of Me always, he is the first-class yogi."

Guest (1): That is karma-yoga.

Prabhupada: Why do you say karma-yoga? Where you get this?

Guest (1): "Whatever you do." "Whatever you do." It is not written that you should do the astahga-yoga.

Prabhupada: No, no, no. We are discussing this verse. He said that "Anyone who is always thinking..." Karma-yogi also always thinks of Krsna. That's all right. That is not denied. But the highest principle is always keeping Krsna within his mind. Premanjana-cchurita... That is confirmed in the Brahma-samhita.

Premanjana-cchurita-bhakti-vilocanena santaḥ sadaiva hrdayesu vilokayanti [Bs 5.38]. This kind of practice of yoga can be done by a unalloyed devotee. Premanjana-cchurita, by developing the dormant love of God. That is... That is the highest perfection. And another thing is, you are accepting mind as atma, are you not? That's not correct. Mind is not atma.

Guest (1): No, no, mind is not atma. No. Whatever you say, the atma and mind, they come together, each other come. When your mind does not go from here to there...

Prabhupada: Yes, mind fixed up in atma. That's nice. But mind is not atma.

Guest (1): No, no.

Prabhupada: Mind is matter, subtle matter.

Guest (1): Certainly. That is the laws. It can be destroyed.

Prabhupada: Mind is kind of fume of the atma. So mind becomes..., changes the color of the fume according to the state of the atma. If the atma is in pure state, then mind is pure. If the atma is impure state, the mind is impure. So we have taught all our disciples, satatam kirtayanto mam [Bg 9.14] Always chanting Hare Krsna. Satatam kirtayanto mam.

Guest (1): Satatam kirtayanto yo mam...

Prabhupada: No. Satatam kirtayanto mam yatantas ca drḍha-vrataḥ. Drḍha-vrataḥ: "One who is always chanting about Me and endeavoring with great determination to reach Me, he is mahatma."

Guest (1): As you have said, naham tisthami vaikunthe yoginam hrdayesu va mad-bhaktes...

Prabhupada: Tisthami. That's it. Therefore a devotee's position is sublime. Krsna comes as a devotee also. Actually this happened. Haridasa Thakura, he happened to be a Muhammadan, Lord Caitanya's devotee. So in those days, five hundred years ago, there was some Hindu-Muslim... Still that is going on.

So he did not enter Jagannatha temple to create some disturbance. Caitanya Mahaprabhu also did not ask him that "You go to Jagannatha temple. Who can check it?" Of course, if Caitanya Mahaprabhu had ordered, he would have gone. Neither he wanted to go, neither Caitanya Mahaprabhu said that "You must go." Caitanya Mahaprabhu used to come to him. Tatra tisthami narada yatra gayanti mad-bhaktaḥ. This is the practical. He came to the devotee where he was chanting.

So instead of approaching God, if you chant, God will approach you. That is a fact, we see. Instead of Haridasa Thakura going to Jagannatha, Jagannatha Himself was coming to him. Every day Lord Caitanya would come and ask and sit down, "How you are feeling? What you are doing?" Then He would go to take bath in Samudra. Daily.

It was Caitanya Mahaprabhu's... And when Haridasa Thakura expired, He personally took the body and cremated on the bank of the Samudra, and He performed the funeral ceremony. Haridasa Thakura was so... And he was given the title namacarya, "authority of chanting Hare Krsna mantra."

Very nice that you are cultivating this knowledge. It is very nice. Manusyanam sahasresu kascid yatati siddhaye [Bg 7.3]. This cultivation of spiritual knowledge means perfection of life. But people do not try for it. Therefore Gita says, manusyanam sahasresu: "Out of many thousands of men, one may try to cultivate knowledge for spiritual advancement." And yatatam api siddhanam [Bg 7.3] "Out of many such persons who are cultivating spiritual knowledge, hardly one can understand what is Krsna."

Guest (1): Very correct. Very correct. To understand Him is a lot.

Prabhupada: Yes. That is liberation. Janma karma me divyam yo janati tattvataḥ [Bg 4.9]. To understand Krsna... Nobody can understand Krsna, but still, to such an extent if one can understand Him, then he immediately becomes liberated. Immediately. And not to speak of developing his love of Krsna, simply by knowledge, by real knowledge if one understands Krsna, oh, that is sufficient to make him liberated. And those who are devotees, for them liberation is very insignificant. Muktir mukulitanjaliḥ sevate 'sman [Bilvamahgala Thakura].

Guest (1): On the first day of this inauguration, I was there, and there were definitions about karma-yoga.

Prabhupada: Oh, the governor. [laughter] Just see. He is speaking of karma-yoga. Slaughtering ten thousand cows, that is karma-yoga. This nonsense speaking of karma-yoga.

Guest (1): So I shall present [indistinct].

Prabhupada: The governor became little perturbed. [chuckles] He wanted to go immediately. You were present? And when the other men began to speak all hodgepodge...

Guest (1): I like your one sentence that day: "Whatever is according to the sastras, that is correct. I agree to it." Nobody says that.

Prabhupada: Yes, that is a fact.

Guest (1): That's a fact.

Prabhupada: Karma done does not mean that you manufacture something and it becomes a karma.

Guest (1): It is written, whatever, in sastras.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Guest (1): That is karma-yoga.

Prabhupada: Yes. I was just going to explain all this karma, vikarma, akarma.

Guest (1): What does he know? [laughs]

Prabhupada: In India, the land of sages, land of Krsna, land of Lord Ramacandra, land of Maharaja Pariksit, without any restriction cow slaughter is going on. And they are speaking of karma-yoga. Just see the fun.

Guest (1): I don't know where this India is going to, the land of Krsna is going to.

Prabhupada: Well... No, we should try our best.

Guest (1): We have to fight these habits. It is our duty.

Prabhupada: Yes, that's it. So you are a military man. I request you to fight against this nonsense.

Guest (1): Swami, I wish you could come sometime. I will gather section of some people, and do some...

Prabhupada: Yes, I'll go. I'll go. Where? Just fix up some time.

Guest (1): Because I am very near to temple, only 100 yards, 200 yards.

Prabhupada: That's all right. That Takat?[?] Takat?

Guest (1): No, not Takat. [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Oh, I see, oh. We are thinking of having a branch near that Takat, in that Takat colony. What is your idea? Our Krsna consciousness center. Is that a good locality?

Guest (1): I'll tell you. I will fight Tukori[?]. [indistinct]

Prabhupada: All right. No, no. Think twice before doing.

Hamsadūta: Tuesday morning, December 15th?

Guest (1): Tuesday morning? Morning, I have to go to a village somewhere.

Prabhupada: You give them after seven.

Guest (1): Ah, no, whenever opportunity.

Prabhupada: All right, then make...

Hamsadūta: Evenings are all engaged.

Prabhupada: Oh, evenings are... But evenings up to which date?

Hamsadūta: Seven to nine p.m....

Prabhupada: No, no. Tuesday?

Hamsadūta: Up to the sixteenth.

Prabhupada: Up to the sixteenth?

Hamsadūta: Yes.

Prabhupada: Then probably on the seventeenth we may go. Nothing fixed up, but there is chance. Every chance, because we are thinking of an appointment with the Prime Minister in Delhi by the eighteenth, so if that is fixed up, then we have to start.

Hamsadūta: How about in the afternoon?

Guest (1): [discusses date for engagement with Hamsadūta]

Prabhupada: Is there any engagement, for...?

Hamsadūta: Yes.

Prabhupada: When?

Hamsadūta: [discusses date for engagement with guest] How about Tuesday afternoon. Three to four.

Guest (1): Tuesday afternoon.

Yamuna: Fifteenth is the disappearance day of His Divine Grace Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati.

Prabhupada: Fifteenth is disappearance day? Oh, then we have to perform.

Hamsadūta: What shall we do? Fast?

Prabhupada: We shall fast up till twelve and then offer puspanjali and then chant, as far as we can supply.

Guest (1): So Tuesday afternoon from three to four.

Prabhupada: Yes. You write his name.

Hamsadūta: May I have your name?

Guest (1): Major Ghun N. Suley.

Hamsadūta: Major...

Guest (1): Ghun N. Suley.

Prabhupada: You are Maharastrian.

Guest (1): Yes. [indistinct]

Hamsadūta: Telephone?

Prabhupada: Maharastrians, they are fighting nation.

Hamsadūta: Telephone? Telephone? Telephone? You have telephone?

Prabhupada: Telephone? Telephone?

Guest (1): Telephone, no, I haven't got. My office telephone is [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Maharastrian spirit and Bengali spirit, almost...

Guest (1): Yes.

Prabhupada: Yes. [Hindi]

Guest (1): [Hindi] [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Yes. These boys also, from their childhood they are addicted to so many things. Gave up immediately.

Guest (1): That's nice.

Prabhupada: Immediately on my word they gave up.

Guest (1): [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Meat-eaters, they have been described by Canakya Panḍita in a verse. I....

Guest (1): Though we are ksatriyas, but nobody takes meat in our house.

Prabhupada: Ksatriyas are allowed to take meat by hunting, not by slaughterhouse. Not all, but some of them.

Guest (1): When you can't get anything to eat, then only you can do that. You are [indistinct] or not?

Prabhupada: I have been [indistinct]. Not in my sannyasa stage. Long ago accepted sannyasa.

Guest (1): Which year?

Prabhupada: Some times in 1945.

Guest (1): Are you going there now this month?

Prabhupada: No, I can go everywhere if the arrangement is... Aiye.

Guest (1): [Hindi discussion with other Indians]

Yamuna: Janaka Maharaja.

Prabhupada: Canakya, Canakya Panḍita. He was a great politician and brahmana.

Yamuna: Was he in Lord Caitanya's time?

Prabhupada: No, no. He was five thousand years ago. Not... Three thousand years.

Hamsadūta: He was a great devotee?

Devotee: No.

Hamsadūta: No?

Guest (1): He was politician. He was a mathematician, greatest.

Prabhupada: He was very learned scholar, brahmana, rigid brahmana. That's all.

Guest (1): He was insulted once in boyhood by something of Mahatmananda.

Prabhupada: Nanda.

Guest (1): Then he took oath that "All right, today I turn my [indistinct], and one day I will dethrone you from here. Then you can call me Canakya," and he went away. [tells indistinct story]

Hamsadūta: Great determination.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Yamuna: He wasn't a great devotee?

Prabhupada: No.

Yamuna: So he's not authority.

Prabhupada: No, no, he was not authority in the spiritual sense. He was a politician-moralist, politician. That's all. Worldly man.

Hamsadūta: [aside:] How many people will be there?

Guest (1): Swamiji, you were telling something?

Prabhupada: Yes. I don't find... [break] ...vanam sattvam na durjante, sattva vasanti, tad eva ca durjanas tu pade pade. This is another verse.

Guest (1): [Sanskrit]

Prabhupada: So we made some Life Member. Is there any possibility of getting..., enrolling some Life Member? That...?

Guest (1): Life Member for...?

Prabhupada: For this institution. We want some Life Members. Otherwise, how we can conduct this institution? [indistinct]

Hamsadūta: Telegram, shall I open it?

Prabhupada: Telegram? New telegram? Or reply?

Hamsadūta: I think it was a return. A reply about...

Prabhupada: Who sent?

Hamsadūta: Gita Bhavan Sect, Gita Bhavan Marg, Indore. "Please advise definite arrival time Surat. Very anxious. Janwal, care of [indistinct]." That's how he replied.

Prabhupada: So there we are already engaged. We cannot go Surat immediately. Let us follow that.

Hamsadūta: We don't [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Yes. That is his version. Version.

Hamsadūta: [indistinct] I think we can send at no cost.

Prabhupada: There is no cost. No. You simply, you present the [indistinct].

Hamsadūta: So what is the program here?

Prabhupada: Never mind. "Due to heavy engagement, cannot go Surat immediately. Letter follows."

Devotee (2): Motorcycle [indistinct].

Hamsadūta: Oh, yes?

Prabhupada: Are you sure, that motorcycle? That? To go and come back here for attending meeting here? By train? How far it is?

Hamsadūta: About fifteen minutes.

Prabhupada: Oh, that's all right. That's all.

Hamsadūta: So we'll be back by 10:30. No, no, we won't take any prasadam that day. We are fasting till noon because it is the appearance day of our Guru Maharaja's spiritual master.

Yamuna: Disappearance.

Hamsadūta: Disappearance? Oh. We won't be taking anything at all. Nothing.

Prabhupada: Up to twelve we don't take. Fast.

Guest (1): [indistinct] in my house?

Prabhupada: Whatever arrangement you do, that's all right. But if some of you members become our Life Members, that will be...

Hamsadūta: Have you seen our books? Would you like to see?

Prabhupada: So shall I explain?

[break] ...the footprints of liberated predecessors like Manu and others. So they are conditioned. Therefore their rules and regulation are not perfect. It cannot be perfect.

Hamsadūta: Here is our monthly magazine, Back to Godhead. These are our... [indistinct] This is in Washington, D.C. This is in Berkeley, California. That magazine is being printed in six languages: Hindi, English, French, German and Japanese and Bengali... Bengali is not yet out, but it's coming. Then Prabhupada started presenting these books when he was still in India.

And this book was published in 1965. This was printed in India, the First Canto of the Srimad-Bhagavatam. The First Canto comprises three volumes like this, the First Canto. And then the following cantos are being printed by our own press in America, in Boston, like this, chapter by chapter, so that people can take advantage of Srimad-Bhagavatam and read it at their convenience instead of being...

Guest (1): [indistinct]

Hamsadūta: And here, Krsna book, is the Tenth Canto of Srimad-Bhagavatam. Prabhupada calls it, Krsna: The Supreme Personality of Godhead. And it's full of illustrations which are done by his American students. Just see how beautiful. There are eighty-four full-color illustrations that show the pastimes of Krsna.

So the people in the Western world, for the first time in the history of the world, will get an idea of who God is, what He looks like, what He does, where He's residing. This is the Krsna book and this is in two volumes. This is volume number one and this is volume number two. This is just a blueprint. We haven't got the printed copy yet. Then Prabhupada has presented these Teachings of Lord Caitanya, Caitanya-caritamrta, which you must be familiar with, in the form of the teachings of Lord Caitanya. And there are also illustrations, although they're not color; they're black and white.

Guest (1): Sri Tukarama is disciple of Caitanya.

Prabhupada: He also went through in Maharastra by His chanting, kirtana.

Guest (1): [indistinct]

Hamsadūta: And most important, Prabhupada has presented Bhagavad-gita. He calls it Bhagavad-gita As It Is. He explains in the introduction that till now there's been so many Bhagavad-gitas printed in all languages, and all of them are misrepresenting. They have not presented Bhagavad-gita as it is. They are trying to present Krsna..., or Bhagavad-gita without Krsna. They want to leave out the speaker of Bhagavad-gita and put themselves forward. So Prabhupada has presented Bhagavad-gita as it is, and therefore this movement has taken such hold, because the real thing is being presented.

This is in San Francisco, California. And then, the Nectar of Devotion, Rūpa Gosvami's book Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu, also there with illustrations. This book is the law book of devotional service. Then Īsopanisad, mantras and transliteration, word-for-word translation, then the complete English translation and purport by His Divine Grace. So these books are [indistinct] bhakti-yoga [indistinct]. Krsna consciousness [indistinct] explaining the chanting of the Hare Krsna mantra.

So we have so much literature. And in India we've introduced a program, our membership program, so that we can go on distributing these literatures. And that membership program, there are four memberships, types of membership. One is Life Membership. Life Membership means the member is entitled to all the books that we have printed, plus all the books we will print in the future, plus a lifetime subscription to our magazine, Back to Godhead. And the member is entitled to stay at any one of our branches throughout the world free, and if he happens to travel abroad. Or in India we will have our branches. So that Life Membership fee is 1, 111 rupees.

And then we have Donor Membership. The Donor Member is entitled to all the books that have been printed, a lifetime subscription to our magazine, but he does not get the books in the future. That is 555 rupees. And Subscriber Membership, lifetime subscription to our magazine, which is 222 rupees.And ordinary membership, yearly subscription to our magazine. In this way we're trying to recruit members that support our movement. This movement is being supported just by literature.

And in this way we can flood the whole world with Krsna consciousness, and then there'll be a change. If we want to see a change in the world, then we have to distribute knowledge of Krsna in this way. You are welcome to become a member. And also your friends. Tell them about our membership programs.

Guest (1): Swamiji, open a center here also.

Prabhupada: I wish to. I wish to open a center.

Guest (1): No, no, now?

Prabhupada: Not yet.

Guest (1): And how many centers in India?

Prabhupada: Practically, three.

Guest (1): Swami, did you come across these Brahma-kumaris? They preach something else.

Prabhupada: That is something else. Everyone knows it.

Guest (1): Once they... I was in [indistinct]. So they were passing through, teaching some Krsna or something, and their Bhagavad-gita was something else. [laughs]

Prabhupada: That is going on. [break]

Guest (1): Bhajans, kirtana and, er...

Prabhupada: There may be musical performance, but here it is by the pure devotees. That is different thing. Now, here don't you see in the Gita Bhavan? When others perform kirtana, nobody takes part. And they cannot continue that kirtana more than five minutes. But we can continue our kirtana for five hours without any...

Hamsadūta: If we stayed there for five hours, everyone would chant. [indistinct conversation with guest]

Prabhupada: Yes. No, maha-mantra they can also do, but it will not be effective, because they are not pure. Here is the secret. We have... Our devotees, they are anyabhilasita-sūnyam [Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu 1.1.11], they have no other business than to satisfy Krsna.

They perform kirtana to take something from Krsna. Everyone goes to some dharma-samsthana just to take something. But our proposition is to give everything for Krsna, and that is far different.

Hamsadūta: And everyone is pleased with the devotees. Everybody.

Guest (2): [indistinct]

Prabhupada: That when you do, I shall tell you. [laughter] Now why do you waste your time in that way? That's all right; you are not doing. So you have no business.

Guest (2): [indistinct] Of course, I am not doing, but... [indistinct, several people talking at once]

Prabhupada: [Hindi] Everything has meaning. This is called vrddha. This is called yoni. This is madhyama. This is anavrtta and this is kanistha.

[indistinct conversation with guests]

We have done it.

[indistinct conversation] Hmm. Curtain now closed?

Hamsadūta: 4 o'clock.

Prabhupada: [indistinct]

Hamsadūta: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Yes. So he has gone to Calcutta. [break] [indistinct] [end]