Room Conversation– December 14, 1970, Indore

701214R1-INDORE [67:40 Minutes]

How great I am, a very beautiful bird

Prabhupada: Utsahan, dhairyat. Are you realizing the distinction between this association and others?

Revatinandana: Yes.

Prabhupada: Yes. That you should realize. That is realization. We are trying to create a real spiritual path, not bogus, for livelihood. India's falldown is due to that spirit, that everyone takes everything for livelihood, that's all. Not only India; everywhere. India especially because poverty-stricken. So they take religion also as livelihood. Just like this Akhila Saheb. He wanted to chant Hare Krsna mantra for livelihood. Do you know that?

Devotee (3): Yes.

Prabhupada: How? How it was? No, you do not know. He was proposing that "I know how to cure disease by chanting Hare Krsna." So he wanted to go to [chuckles] foreign countries to take this profession. That means an attempt to kill our movement in purity. Of course, nobody can kill our movement, but this sort of thinking is just against the purity of our movement: to utilize Hare Krsna mantra for curing disease.

[aside:] Oh, it will not stay.

Hamsadūta: No. If we put it on the window. On the window it will stay. It won't stay on the wall.

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Hamsadūta: If he puts it on the window it will stay.

Prabhupada: Window means it will be dark.

Hamsadūta: Yes. I think that [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Yes. It has to be done. Not only idea; it has to be done in practical sense. Now who will take charge of this task? That is to be found out. You write to the...

Hamsadūta: GBC?

Prabhupada: GBC.

Hamsadūta: [indistinct] Because newspapers... So many newspapers have come out within the last three or four years. Of course, most of them are hippie groups, but they have become... People are very anxious to read something from different angle of vision.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Hamsadūta: They are tired of old newspapers. So if we present a newspaper with our angle of vision, Krsna consciousness...

Prabhupada: So immediately you write to the GBC members.

Hamsadūta: [indistinct] But the articles that will be in the newspaper, they will be exactly like other newspapers? Who will write them?

Prabhupada: No, articles... Daily newspaper means there must be news. News you can purchase from the news collecting company. They will supply. At very cheap price they'll supply. And you take advertisement. Yes. You'll cover your expenses by getting advertisement and make sufficient profit. Newspaper starting is not a losing business provided you can organize. Just like ordinary newspaper, they give...

In daily news... People want to learn daily news, and they supply huge quantity. And those who are advertiser, they are simply concerned how many copies are issued. If you issue 100,000's of copies, then you can charge for each page thousand dollars. They will pay. Two thousand dollars they will pay.

Hamsadūta: That means in each city we would have to have our own local press.

Prabhupada: No, not necessarily. You can arrange with any newspaper place. You simply supply your matter; they will print. Just like we are getting from Japan, similarly, make your own layout and supply them. Immediately, within two hours, everything is complete.

Hamsadūta: But a daily newspaper has to turn out daily, so it takes time to transport it from one city to another city.

Prabhupada: Well, from every city we can publish. Every city there is a newspaper place.

Devotee (4): [indistinct] tend to buy local newspapers. And weekly's are often national, just like the national...

Prabhupada: Yes. So we have to organize. First of all let us publish in one city, big city, like New York, like London, yes, Bombay, Tokyo. Big cities, world's big cities. In India only two cities are big: Calcutta and Bombay, important. If you publish simultaneously, Calcutta... Delhi is given importance due to capital; otherwise not important as big city, as Bombay and Calcutta. Delhi, without government offices it is a dead city.

Just like Washington. What is the value of Washington? It is nothing. Simply because it is headquarters of the President it has got importance. Similarly, Delhi is that. Otherwise it is not important. But Calcutta, Bombay is really important city in India: big business, port, all rich men, every kind of, all cultural, everything-Calcutta and Bombay. Originally only Calcutta, now Bombay also. Because the Britishers, they made Calcutta capital. And Calcutta was very, very important city. But this Calcutta man, they create sometimes situation, very complicated.

So once in 1905 the same situation was there, politically. Sir Surendranath Banerjee made..., Surendranath Banerjee's movement, partition of Bengal. Lord Curzon, he wanted to divide Bengal, make it East Bengal and West Bengal. And Surendranath Bannerjee... He is the practically father of Indian politics. Gandhi's not. He was. He was. And in the beginning, in European circles he was famous. He was called "Surrender-not." [laughter]

The spelling of the name, s-u-r-e-n-d-e-r, Surendranath. In Parliament he was known as "Surrender-not." He was a very powerful politician. So there was trouble in Calcutta; so therefore they transferred, 1911, capital to Delhi. Otherwise, from the very beginning of British occupation, Calcutta was the capital. You have seen the government viceroy's house near that Hamilton building where you were trying to purchase.

Hamsadūta: The government house?

Prabhupada: Oh, yes. It is better than Buckingham Palace. Such a big house.

Hamsadūta: Oh, the governor's house. The governor's house?

Prabhupada: Yes, governor's house.

Hamsadūta: It's surrounded just like a...

Prabhupada: A big garden. Yes. That was viceroy's house. Now it is dilapidated. Otherwise, formerly it was very, very nice. Huge palace in India. Lord Curzon's policy was to bring one of the princes from England and make him king of India.

Hamsadūta: King of India.

Prabhupada: Yes. That was his policy. He favored that policy, that Indian people are in favor of monarchy. So introduce this system: one of the royal family's son should come and become king of India. That was good suggestion. If Britishers would have ruled India for the interest of India, making one king from the royal family, it would have been great success. That policy of Lord Curzon was very nice.

Hamsadūta: That never happened.

Prabhupada: The same thing. The parliamentary members... Just like nowadays, party. India is suffering in party politics. And they did not like to give importance to monarchy. They wanted to rule according to their whims, and therefore the whole scheme failed. The so-called democracy under party politics is nonsense. Monarchy... I have said. That day I was in remarking that "This democracy is the government of the asses," because the population are asses and they vote another ass to be head of the government.

So what you can do? Sva yadi kriyate raja sa kim asnu pahanam. These are instructions in Sanskrit. "If you make a dog a king, don't you think that he will still lap the shoes?" [laughter] You cannot change his habits. Sva... Yasya bhavasya na sa sudurate kramaḥ. Anyone's habits, even if you give good position, you cannot change it. The example is just like if you make a dog the king, he will immediately come from the throne and lap the shoes. You see? So materially you cannot change. Only by spiritual understanding one can be...

Hamsadūta: Canakya Panḍita... I have seen that book, and he says in his book that if a crow sits on a high plinth, he says it doesn't become [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Yes. If you make a crow... The crow generally sits on the roof of the house, but that does not mean he has become a great man-"How great I am, a very beautiful bird."

Revatinandana: The symbol of the Democratic party in America is the ass.

Prabhupada: Everywhere. As soon as you...

Revatinandana: Their symbol is an ass. They have a symbol.

Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Because they are asses.

Revatinandana: The Republican party is elephant, and the Democratic party is an ass, a donkey.

Prabhupada: What is the value of vote for the asses? According to Vedic civilization there was democracy, but that democracy is selected committee. Just like in England there was Privy Council. So selected body of learned brahmanas and sages, they were guiding the king, and the king was himself was properly educated how to rule over, under religious principles. He was trained from the beginning of his life as prince. As the future heir of the throne he was trained, and at the same time, he was guided by a council of learned sages and brahmanas. They were looking over the activities of the king. As soon as there was some mistake they will see.

And there are instances; whenever there was a bad king, they were dethroned. Not for political purpose. He was dethroned, but his son was on the... Just like Lord Ramacandra did. Ramacandra killed Ravana, but He never occupied the kingdom. His brother Vibhisana proved to be faithful. He was enthroned. From the same family. And that was the system. Even a king was wrong, he would be dethroned, but from his family, either his son or brother or somebody would occupy there. Not that "Because I have conquered you, therefore I shall sit down." No. There are many instances. And therefore India was ruling all over the world. The emperor was in India, and the kings of different states, their family was.

So there was no rebellion. And in every state a king was trained in the same process, guided by committee of learned brahmana and sages. How perfect this monarchy is. Monarchy... That Lord Curzon studied it, that the Indian people like monarchy. Even these states, the so-called states... Now the Congress government has killed them; otherwise the Britishers were maintaining, necessary, and they were developed. Now see. The Indore was far better before. You can see from the buildings, from the whole city. It was very prosperous city. Still it is going on.

So every state, the native prince, the Britishers maintained so many native prince. And because they maintained them, they were friends to the Britishers. They knew the policy, if you create zamindar, landlord. They created this aristocratic class to support them. So when Gandhi and other leaders started this movement, all the princes and zamindars, they were in favor of British. Therefore it took so much time to transfer. And as a retaliation, the common people have bereft them of their kingdom: "No more kingdom, because you always supported Britishers." It is a great politics. Therefore they have taken... The zamindars, immediately after this attainment of independence, all the zamindars and kings were bereft of their possessions.

You were in Calcutta? Oh, none of you were with me. We saw one house for purchasing. That was a big zamindar's house, Tagore Thakur. You saw? Yes. If you have saw... How nicely it was. When they were in opulence in our childhood, oh, it was a house to be seen. There are many houses. Just like in England the lord families. In Ascot, where we stayed, that was also lord family's house. Now Yoko is occupying, a third-class Japanese girl. She has become the queen of the house.

And how third class, low grade. It is the sitting room, and a naked picture has... How much degraded people have become. How this man is daring to hang that picture in his sitting room so that everyone who comes sees. How much low-graded they are. They want change, but because they have no [indistinct] education, they are going to the animal sphere. That is hippie movement. Yes. From animal standard they become civilized. The same story, punar mūsiko bhavah. You know that story? "Again become mouse."

Hamsadūta: Oh, yeah. I've heard that.

Prabhupada: The story is a mouse came to a saintly person: "Sir, I am in trouble. If you kindly release me." "What is that trouble?" "A cat, they are after me. I am always at risk of life." "So what do you want?" "You also make me a cat." "All right. You become a cat." Then again he came. "Sir, again the complaint is here." "What is that?" "Dogs are chasing me." "Then what do you want?" "I want to become a dog." "All right. You become a dog." In this way he came up to the tiger by the benediction of the... And when he became a tiger, he was... [snarling sound] [laughter] Just like our Brahmananda Prabhu. "All right. Again become mouse." [laughter] You see?

So these civilization is like that. They became tiger, and they are so much badly trained up that they have to become again a mouse. That is the way. That is the way of nature. If you don't improve yourself in Krsna consciousness, then you again become the stool worms. The human form of life is an opportunity to come out of this cycle of birth and death, but if one does not take-these are the statements in Padma Purana-then he loses the chance. They do not know what is life, how life is rotating. Talking nonsense, "I am God. Why Krsna should be God? This is written by man." How much low-graded people have become.

They are completely under the laws of nature. Daivi hy esa guna-mayi mama maya duratyaya [Bg 7.14] Stringent laws of nature, and still, they are claiming, "I am God," "I am this," "I am that," "I am free," "I am..." And they do not mind, even they are degraded to the position of the worm of stool. But there is possibility. What is this worm of stool? It is also living entity. It is not a different thing. Panḍitaḥ sama-darsinaḥ [Bg 5.18].

One who knows, he knows that the worm of stool and Brahma are the same living entity. Simply under different reaction of karma one has become Brahma and another has become the stool worm. Now we begin. It is not difficult. Simply the layout should be sent to different parts, and they will make immediately plate, and that will be paper. Daily you have to send it. Eh?

Hamsadūta: The best place to start is Boston, because they're already equipped there.

Prabhupada: Yes, already. Even in small scale we can start from Boston.

Hamsadūta: Just like one or two pages.

Prabhupada: Yes. Never mind. Just like I began in that way. You have seen the...

Hamsadūta: Yes, I saw the original Back to Godhead. A lot of your articles were commenting about current events.

Prabhupada: Yes. The editorial board must be very intelligent how to talk about Back to Godhead with current politics. Giriraja, you can do that?

Giriraja: I could try.

Prabhupada: Try. You just try it immediately. You take one newspaper and comment on the current news. Any one of you... Every one of you can do. And show me how you have given. Then we start immediately. We have got many things to do. We have Krsna, and Krsna is the bhoktaram yajna-tapasam sarva-loka mahesvaram [Bg 5.29]. What these petty politicians and three acres of land? Their stage is three acres of land; our stage is the unlimited. That I have mentioned in the second volume of Srimad-Bhagavatam.

So what news they can publish? Three acres of land. We have got the innumerable universes. We can supply so much news, provided people are ready to read it. We have published so many books, they are not even able to read these books. So the other devotees, [laughs] they cannot ri..., come at five o'clock. That is the test. Yes. One who cannot rise early in the morning, he is not spiritually serious. That is test. Brahma-muhūrta, this hour, one hour before sunrise, is very auspicious moment.

Hamsadūta: I can tell everyone that wants a program to come at five o'clock.

Prabhupada: Huh?

Hamsadūta: If somebody wants a program, I can say, "Come and see me at five o'clock." Because after they hear you and they have mahgala-arati, then they will be more thoughtful about our...

Prabhupada: Yes, tell them.

Hamsadūta: I think that's a good idea.

Prabhupada: You can say now, "If anyone wants to see us, please come at five o'clock, early in the morning." Then I shall see how much serious he is. Now I have decided to go to Delhi. Even Gurudasa suggests rightly. All of us, we should go to Delhi.

Yamuna: It might be difficult to make arrangements, Guru Maharaja. The place where Gurudasa is presently staying is not equipped for ten people at present. We'll have to arrange.

Prabhupada: No, we can arrange in the Birla's house. He has a nice dharmasala. You know Birla's house?

Yamuna: Yes. We were invited to stay there for ten days.

Prabhupada: So that's all right. So, who invited?

Giriraja: One of the people connected with the temple have associated with us in Delhi, and several have invited us.

Prabhupada: So first of all take information from the [indistinct] in which train they have booked our seats for Delhi, and you write immediately one letter to Dhruva in Bombay and Tamala Krsna also, that Dhruva may instruct the Delhi Birla dharmasala to accommodate us immediately. So their dharmasala. It is Birla's dharmasala. First of all we have to see how they have made our seats.

Revatinandana: So the residential place belongs to Mr. Birla?

Prabhupada: No, it is a temple, very big temple.

Hamsadūta: So we should book seats for Delhi on which day?

Prabhupada: Seventeenth.

Hamsadūta: Seventeenth you want to leave?

Prabhupada: Yes. What is the day, seventeenth?

Devotee (3): Today is the fourteenth.

Prabhupada: No, day?

Hamsadūta: Today is Monday.

Prabhupada: Then?

Hamsadūta: Seventeenth is Thursday.

Prabhupada: Thursday?

Hamsadūta: Thursday, seventeenth.

Prabhupada: So Thursday, before afternoon, we shall start.

Devotee (3): You want to go by plane, Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: No, I am asking one ticket for plane.

Devotee (3): You'll fly alone to Delhi?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Yamuna: The Delhi airport?

Prabhupada: Yes. That is not difficulty. Ask Gurudasa to take me. For two hours I can sit down. It goes directly Delhi from here.

Devotee (3): No, it makes two stops.

Prabhupada: That doesn't matter.

Devotee (3): But the same plane.

Prabhupada: Same plane. And you come, all, by train.

Hamsadūta: Will we open a bank account here? Will we open an account in Indore?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Hamsadūta: This morning with Mr. Holi.

Yamuna: So when we find out your arrival time, Gurudasa..., we can inform Gurudasa when you'll be arriving?

Prabhupada: Yes. And then the next day you come, all, by train. Thursday we can wa...? What is that, Thursday?

Hamsadūta: Thursday [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Oh, Industrial House. Industrial House.

Guest (2): It's called "Industry House."

Prabhupada: Industry, that's all. Industry House. Industry House... Dhruva's full name, you know?

Devotee (3): R. C.

Prabhupada: R. C. Dhruva, Secretary to Mr. R. D. Birla, Industry House, Churchgate Reclamation...

Hamsadūta: Bombay West.

Prabhupada: Bombay.

Yamuna: Is Parliament in session again?

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Yamuna: I was thinking that Parliament goes in and out of session, and I wondered if they remembered this if Parliament was in session again.

Giriraja: No.

Yamuna: No.

Prabhupada: Parliament is in session now?

Yamuna: No. Out of session now. When it's in session then all of the politicians come from their castles and their... They all, most of the members of Parliament come all the [indistinct]

Prabhupada: So when the Parliament begins?

Yamuna: It will be [indistinct]. It separates for about a month and then comes together.

Prabhupada: [someone enters] Aiye. Aiye. [japa]

Giriraja: Insofar as seeing the prime minister, this is the best time, because she is not so preoccupied.

Prabhupada: Yes. Where is that picture? There was picture you took there?

Devotee (3): [indistinct] picture with a letter [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Oh. So... So how long you talked with the Prime Minister?

Yamuna: Maybe ten minutes.

Prabhupada: So she took some interest?

Yamuna: She took a courteous interest. As I say, there was no doubt that at the time that she saw him she was pressed with other matters. A very personal friend of hers that Gurudasa is now staying with told us that she was very impressed, her personal secretary was very impressed, and that she said-we have it on tape-that she would like to see us again and she was sorry that she didn't realize that we had been even waiting for so long. Otherwise we could have come earlier, she would have [indistinct]. In that way she would like to hear some time in the future.

Devotee (4): The next day we saw some yogi.

Prabhupada: Pressing nose. Nose-pressing philosophy.

Devotee (5): Hatha-yoga also.

Yamuna: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: So what was his philosophy?

Yamuna: You do some exercises and know God, be self-realized.

Prabhupada: You should have said to him, "Are you self-realized?"

Yamuna: [indistinct] a rascal, I didn't want to try.

Prabhupada: If they tell you then he's God...

Devotee (5): [indistinct] exercise and breathing [indistinct] some type of meditation performed.

Yamuna: He's social svami, a very social svami. He's very polished in a material way.

Devotees (5): [indistinct]

Prabhupada: And smoking also?

Yamuna: I didn't inquire into his vices.

Devotee (5): In New York they call them "uptown svamis." [indistinct]

Yamuna: His example of spiritual life is based on material prosperity.

Prabhupada: So why they should go to the yoga system? The science is more advanced. Before flying in the sky by a yogi he has to press his nose for so many years, and the science has given us the airplane. He can purchase ticket, immediately fly. [laughter] What is use of pressing nose?

Yamuna: You explain that in Bhagavatam.

Prabhupada: Yes. What is the use, wasting time?

Revatinandana: You said about when you walk on the water, walking on the water is a bogus thing, a two-cent yogi, because for two cents he could have taken a boat across.

Prabhupada: That's all. If that is the ultimate end of life, to walk on the water or to fly in the sky, so science has given them all opportunity. And their material science is so advanced that all this yoga system is now almost accomplished, because that is material only, material prosperity. [someone enters] Aiye.

Yamuna: [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Yes, eating flesh sumptuously and get fat. Flesh-eaters get fatty very quickly, flesh-eaters. Mamsa. The skin becomes increased for flesh-eating. You see in your country, the Russia? Russian beauty-big belly, fat. That...

Yamuna: Germans are like that, too. Germans.

Prabhupada: Germans. If you eat meat, you very quickly can get fatty. Also too much ghee also. [chuckles] That is also. But ghee will increase your belly only. Just see Marwaris. [laughter] But by eating flesh you'll get sturdy, good lump of muscles. That is... In Ayur Veda there is a chapter which is called Dravya-guna. There is a book, Dravya-guna. So they have analyzed so many different kinds of flesh-birds, beasts, animals.

How they have analyzed? That "If you eat this kind flesh you will get this kind of result." Hundreds of fleshes. What do they know? They can eat only cow's flesh or dog's flesh or hog's flesh. Yes. But there are so many, even birds, beasts, animals, and so many, analysis. And Bernard Shaw, I think, he wrote one book, You Are What You Eat.

Hamsadūta: George Bernard Shaw.

Prabhupada: Yes. So they are becoming animals, animals eating animal flesh. Bernard Shaw was vegetarian.

Devotee (6): Except he would take liver for his health.

Prabhupada: Liver?

Devotee (6): Yes. He used to take some liver periodically for his health.

Prabhupada: Medicine. There are many liver extract preparations.

Devotee (6): No, not liver extract. Maybe. I don't know exactly. But I know he used to take liver. Not cod liver oil or anything.

Prabhupada: No, liver extract preparations there are many medicines. For anemic patient liver extract is recommended.

Devotee (6): That's all right for us to take?

Prabhupada: No, but if you are going to die, then you can take.

Yamuna: Chant Hare Krsna.

Prabhupada: When required for such trouble, if you are going to die, then, to save yourself, you can.

Devotee (6): If that liver can be eaten raw...

Prabhupada: If you are going to die. Not ordinary. If it is sure that without liver extract you shall die, you can take.

Devotee (4): You cannot tell. You can't tell until you actually [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Because when there is question of death, it is recommended you may take anything to save your life.

Yamuna: Chant Hare Krsna.

Prabhupada: But those who are rigid, they are prepared to die even.

Yamuna: Vaisnavas, wouldn't they just chant?

Prabhupada: Their proposal is "Death is sure today or tomorrow, so why shall I change my principles? Death will take place even if I live for ten years more, and what is the benefit? Why shall I change my principles? It is not that by taking that medicine or liver extract I shall be amara, immortal." That is not possible.

If somebody gives some medicine that one can make himself immortal, that is another thing. Nobody is going to be immortal. Why he should be afraid of death? Death will take place. "As sure as death." So today or tomorrow or hundred years after. So if one moment is utilized for Krsna consciousness, that makes life successful. Why shall I live for hundred years, waste my time? One moment is sufficient for living.

Himavati: Srila Prabhupada? [indistinct] I just have one question about the ending, that Ajamila, he was calling the name of his youngest son.

Prabhupada: Narayana.

Himavati: He was thinking, but he was calling out to him, and after calling, he was reminded of his early life, of his worshiping the real Narayana.

Prabhupada: Narayana.

Himavati: And therefore Narayana saved him. Isn't that true?

Prabhupada: Yes. Yes.

Himavati: Not that he was simply calling and Narayana had to save him...

Prabhupada: But simply calling "Narayana," he reminded, he remembered. Remembered. Yes.

Himavati: He remembered the real Narayana.

Prabhupada: Because actually when one chants Lord Krsna's name, Lord's name, immediately he remembers Lord's form, activities, pastimes, everything. That is natural.

Himavati: Not that he was unconsciously just chanting, and the Lord saved him in that way, but he actually remembered the Lord.

Prabhupada: That is the remark of Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura. But according to others' opinion, even simply by chanting, that is sufficient. In the Bhagavata it is stated like that. But Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura has remarked that this chanting referred to the context. Immediately he remembered Narayana.

Himavati: In that same connection, the story of Thakura Haridasa and the harlot, that she began to chant and told him the reason that she was a prostitute, she was no good, and simply by that association she began to chant, or by previous association...

Prabhupada: No, by association. By the influence of Haridasa Thakura. For three days, three days she associated.

Himavati: But Professor Sanyal was putting forward his theory that in previous lives she had had association; therefore she began to chant.

Prabhupada: Why previous lives? That's not very good reason.

Himavati: Subconscious, that she had subconsciously remembered.

Prabhupada: No. No, no. That is not.

Himavati: In one of the Back to Godhead magazines, he wrote in some book.

Prabhupada: That is not. He advocates that.[?] Direct association with Haridasa Thakura. Why previously?

Himavati: [indistinct] he wants to say that previously she had done some chanting, therefore [indistinct].

Prabhupada: We don't find any such thing. Professor Sanyal was not very much advanced. He committed so many blunders.

Himavati: You heard about that article?

Prabhupada: No.

Himavati: That was the one that [indistinct].

Prabhupada: Well, if that sort of remark is given, it is not against the sastra, but it was not necessarily previously. His direct association. Caitanya Mahaprabhu says,

"Even a moment's association with a pure devotee-all success." Not necessarily that one has to acquire it previous. No. Generally it is so, but sadhu sanga has got its effect. Caitanya Mahaprabhu said, lavamatra sadhu sanga sarva siddhi haya. You have not read in the Sanatana-siksa in the Teachings of Lord Caitanya?

Revatinandana: Does that also apply to reading the words of a pure devotee?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Revatinandana: Even a little association with your books has the same effect?

Prabhupada: Effect, of course, it requires both the things. One must be very eager to take it. Just like Maharaja Pariksit heard Srimad-Bhagavatam, and there are so many others, they are also reading Srimad-Bhagavatam. So Maharaja Pariksit was very serious. So both things should be serious. Just like the example: the husband and wife must be potent; then there is pregnancy. Otherwise there is no pregnancy. So sowing the seed, the field also must be fertile, or receptible, then the seed will fructify. It is reciprocal.

Revatinandana: But if the seed starts to sprout and it lacks sufficient facilities, then it will die completely.

Prabhupada: Yes. Yes.

Revatinandana: But if a spiritual seed starts to sprout, then whatever sprout is made is never lost. Right?

Prabhupada: Yes. It is not lost, but it is checked. Sometimes he is checked.

Revatinandana: Because the tendency to revive again.

Prabhupada: In that way again one has to... That brings the question of previous life. One was advanced so much; it was checked by some reason; he again begins from that point. Just like Bilvamahgala Thakura. Bilvamahgala Thakura was advanced in his previous life up to bhava-bhakti.

Somehow or other, it was checked. But as soon as he heard the words from the prostitute, "Oh, you are so much after the flesh and similar, and bones and skin. If you had been so much eager for Krsna, how you would have been disposed," immediately he came to that point and immediately left. I'll take... [devotees offer obeisances]

Himavati: Srila Prabhupada? The other day you talked about the spirit soul and his position in the brahma-jyoti, that there's no shelter there. Just like we go up, up, up into the sky [indistinct] there's no shelter there, so you have to go to some planet. So I was thinking that the reason why our position is shaky is due to this body. But spirit, being restless, can remain anywhere, and shelter...

Prabhupada: Yes, but there the shelter is transcendental bliss. The impersonal Brahman is not transcendental bliss. It is simply eternity. But we want three things: eternity, full knowledge and blissful life. So there is no bliss.

Himavati: Yes. Just as we require shelter because we have the body...

Prabhupada: Yes. So similarly, this living entity also requires shelter of blissful life. That is this association of Krsna. So unless he gets that, he wants blissfulness, but-there is some spiritual blissfulness; he has no information-he comes down again to this perverted blissfulness of this material world.

Himavati: They don't take their pleasure in being there in the brahma-jyoti? They don't [indistinct]?

Prabhupada: There is no pleasure. Blissfulness is not there. That is... Brahma-jyoti is simply eternity, that's all. The same example can be given: just like sunlight. There is only light. But on a planet, the effect of the light is there-there are so many trees, so many flowers, fruits. We..., we want varieties of pleasure. Variety is the mother of...

Devotees: "Variety is the spice of life."

Prabhupada: Huh?

Himavati: Spice of life.

Prabhupada: Oh. Yes. So therefore, we are living entities, life. We want variety. So this is the varietyless-no variety; one kind, sunlight. We require sunlight. We are so much anxious for sunlight. Not only sunlight.

Revatinandana: It must be very boring. It is very boring in the brahma-jyoti? You get very bored? There is nothing to do? Nowhere to go?

Prabhupada: Bore?

Hamsadūta: Boring, dull.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Himavati: But at first they are satisfied, aren't they, that they've achieved their goal?

Prabhupada: Avisuddha-buddhayaḥ [SB 10.2.32]. They do not know. They are after brahmananda, transcendental pleasure, but they do not know what is actually transcendental pleasure, impersonalists. Therefore their intelligence is not clean. They go to the spiritual kingdom, transcendental platform, but they do not know that how the real transcendental pleasure can be achieved. Therefore their knowledge is not perfect.

Revatinandana: When they want to come back, is it very easy for them to come back, or have they got to endure...?

Prabhupada: No, they automatically come back, because he is hankering after varieties. So that variety is not there, so he is attracted again in the material world. Just like so many sannyasis. Take Vivekananda. He wanted to lecture on Vedanta, which is liberation. He came again back to the hospitalizing and philanthropic work because he could not find the variety of pleasure in Vedanta.

Of course, he was not very much advanced. There are many. There is a sannyasi is here, he's a...., Karpatri. He is very learned and other... He was formerly speaking on Vedanta and other... Now he is in politics and cow protection. You see? There are many.

Revatinandana: The question I had is I have a hazy memory that one time I heard that when a soul, when it finally does enter into brahma-jyoti, that he has to remain there for some long duration of time, a daytime of Brahma or a lifetime of Brahma. Is that correct? What is that duration?

Prabhupada: Not that. That is not like that.

Revatinandana: Not like that. Thank you.

Prabhupada: But he feels inconvenience without varieties of life. The Bhagavata says, tvayy asta-bhavad avisuddha-buddhayaḥ: "Their intelligence is not clean." Arūhya krcchrena param padam tataḥ [SB 10.2.32]: "Although they rise up to the brahma-jyoti," patanty adho tataḥ, "they again come back."

Hamsadūta: And the nirvana conception of life is just before Brahman?

Prabhupada: Nirvana conception is marginal position between brahma-jyoti and this material world.

Hamsadūta: Just on the brink.

Prabhupada: Yes. Karanarnava. Karanarnava. The Karana Ocean, wherefrom the beginning of creation, material creation, that is nirvana.

Devotee (4): Viraja.

Prabhupada: Viraja, yes.

Revatinandana: Is it possible to go there?

Prabhupada: Why not? Yes.

Devotee (4): Arjuna went there.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Revatinandana: What was Arjuna's purpose?

Prabhupada: Krsna took him to show His friend. He did not go alone. That he could not. No. [laughter] It was Krsna's [indistinct].

Revatinandana: So he went to the spiritual sky?

Prabhupada: Yes. Then what is the use of making friendship with Krsna if you cannot do that? There was a rich man in Calcutta, Motilal Sil. He was so rich that... Every man has different circle in younger days. So he would see. If any of his friends did not possess a house in Calcutta, he would purchase house. He said that "If people say, 'Oh, you are friend of Motilal Sil. You have no your own house?' what people will say about me? He must have his own house."

He purchased house for him. He was very big man. And there are many incidences also like, a very noble story. Actually it was not long ago, say about hundred years ago. He would not see that any one of his associates, friends, does not possess a house in Calcutta. Another Krsna's friend, Sudama also. [chuckles] He could not recognize his own place, how it has happened, palatial buildings, garden. In Krsna, you have not read Sudama?

Give me water.

Yamuna: [indistinct] mentions in the Teachings of Lord Caitanya that a devotee in attachment selects one of the Vrndavana..., the inhabitants of Vrndavana, and follows in his footsteps in order to be successful in his own devotional service. Does that mean that one of our spiritual masters is an eternal representative of Vrndavana? [indistinct]

Prabhupada: What is that? Let me...

Yamuna: It says, "All inhabitants of Vrajabhūmi, Vrndavana, are very dear to Krsna. A devotee in attachment selects one of the inhabitants and follows in his footsteps in order to be successful."

Prabhupada: Devotee... Devoted to the Vrndavana inhabitants. You don't directly think of yourself that "I shall see Krsna as my son."

Yamuna: No.

Prabhupada: No.

Yamuna: No.

Prabhupada: That is Mayavada.

Yamuna: Yes.

Prabhupada: You have to follow the footsteps of Yasoda-ma.

Yamuna: Yes. You've told me that before.

Prabhupada: Then it will be success.

Revatinandana: But you've said that you are always in Vrndavana, so we are following a Vrndavana inhabitant. That's right.

Prabhupada: Yes. [laughter]

Yamuna: It says, "One should always remember the activities of that particular inhabitant of Vraja."

Prabhupada: Now you have got Kapoor[?] darsana?

Devotee (4): Yes.

Revatinandana: Have we got an engagement this morning?

Hamsadūta: Yes. [indistinct]

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Hamsadūta: He asked if we have an engagement this morning, 8:30. [indistinct] Molpar[?].

Prabhupada: Oh, Molpar[?], yes. They'll send cars?

Yamuna: Yes.

Prabhupada: How far is it?

Hamsadūta: It's supposed to be just in the neighborhood.

Prabhupada: Oh, that's all right.

Devotee: What's his position? His Highness?

Hamsadūta: His Highness [indistinct].

Prabhupada: He was formerly prince.

Revatinandana: Of this area?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Hamsadūta: He had written that [indistinct].

Prabhupada: That is the sign of princely opulence.

Revatinandana: He's the son of this man we saw last week? This Maharaja? It's not his son?

Prabhupada: No, no, he is also old man.

Hamsadūta: [indistinct] because I have to wait for Mr. Homing. I won't be going to that place, because I'll be waiting for Mr. Homing.

Prabhupada: Homing is coming?

Hamsadūta: Yes, and I... We'll open a bank account.

Prabhupada: That's it.

Hamsadūta: We'll open a one-sided account. Book account and, er...

Prabhupada: Book Fund account, selling, and one International Society, checking account. [devotees offer obeisances] So what we have to do in that connection?

Devotee (4): Bring [indistinct] just now.

Prabhupada: The water? [break] [end]