Ride on Rādhā-Dāmodara Bus to Gītā-nagarī Farm – July 15, 1976, New York

But because the brain is so dull, they cannot understand

760715CV-New York [30:26 Minutes]

Prabhupada: You can keep in that room?

Hari-sauri: Yes, if there are any visitors that come, we'll play them. The small ones?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Hari-sauri: So tomorrow we'll be traveling to the farm and then coming…, returning Friday morning. And then I think in the afternoon, Friday afternoon, there's the Associated Press are coming, and also this lady from the magazine wanted to come.

Prabhupada: Which lady?

Hari-sauri: From this India magazine? This one I just showed. The thing is, Ramesvara was thinking it might be too much if you did two interviews straight after each other.

Prabhupada: Hmm.

Hari-sauri: Yes. So we should arrange for her to come another day.

Prabhupada: Where is that magazine?

Hari-sauri: Well, they took it out.

Prabhupada: India?

Hari-sauri: You would like to...? I'll bring one so you can read. [break] [indistinct]

Prabhupada: There is no other seat?

Tamala Krsna: No, we have another seat for you.

Prabhupada: Only one bus is going? [break]

[on bus]

Tamala Krsna: ...going about 55 miles an hour.

Hari-sauri: [to devotee] If you hold this microphone next to your mouth-don't press that trigger, though-and then I'll put it onto the speaker. [indistinct]

Tamala Krsna: No, I don't think so. He's just going to read.

Devotee: I don't have the… [break]

Devotee: [testing microphone] Jaya, all glories to Srila Prabhupada! All glories to Sri Guru, Sri Gaurahga! [break]

Prabhupada: …what is sun. Sun is situated in one place, everyone can see. But the heat and light, it expands. The heat and light is impersonal, but the sun is personal. Now one can imagine which is important-the heat and light or the sun? Which is important?

Tamala Krsna: The sun is the most important.

Prabhupada: So why do people give importance to imperson, less important? What is the meaning? The meaning is the fiery place is situated in one place, everyone can see. But the heat, ninety-three million miles from earth, expands. Because the sunshine is so widely expanded, it does not mean that it is more important than the sun. Go on.

Tamala Krsna: [reading] "Lord Krsna naturally has three energetic transformations, and these are known as the spiritual potency, the living entity potency and the illusory potency."Visnu-saktiḥ… [break]

"Originally Krsna's energy is spiritual and the energy known as the living entity is also spiritual. However, there is another energy called illusion, which consists of fruitive activity. That is the Lord's third potency. For further explanation of this verse, refer to the Adi-lila, Chapter 7, verse 119."

"All the creative energies, which are inconceivable to a common man, exists in the Supreme Absolute Truth. These inconceivable energies act in the process of creation, maintenance and annihilation. O chief of the ascetics, just as there are two energies possessed by fire, namely heat and light, these inconceivable creative energies are the natural characteristics of the Absolute Truth."

"This is a quotation from the Visnu Purana 1.3.2."

"O King, the ksetrajna-sakti is the living entity. Although he has the facility to live in either the material or spiritual world, he suffers the threefold miseries of material existence because he is influenced by the avidya [nescience] potency, which covers his constitutional position."

"This and the following verse are also quoted from the Visnu Purana 6.7.62 & 63."

Prabhupada: [indistinct]

Tamala Krsna: …taratamyena vartate. "This living entity covered by the influence of nescience exists in different forms in the material condition. O King, he is thus proportionately freed from the influence of material energy to greater or lesser degrees."

Prabhupada: Inconceivable. That portion reads, what is that written? You read from "inconceivable"?

Tamala Krsna: Yes. "All the creative energies which are inconceivable to a common man exist in the Supreme Absolute Truth. These inconceivable energies act in the process of creation, maintenance and annihilation. O chief of the ascetics, just as there are two energies possessed by fire, namely heat and light, these inconceivable creative energies are the natural characteristics of the Absolute Truth."

Prabhupada: That inconceivable energy, the scientists they are trying to conceive.

Tamala Krsna: But they can't.

Prabhupada: That is not possible. Everyone knows that due to sunshine there are leaves in the trees, green and different colors. Everyone knows, due to the sunshine. But how this sunshine, this heat and light, these things are coming into existence? They are studying, what is called, molecules? Molecules.

Hari-sauri: Yes, molecular structure.

Tamala Krsna: Polygons.

Prabhupada: So many things. But they cannot make it. Although they are seeing due to the sunshine these colors are there, [indistinct]. They cannot explain. [break]

Tamala Krsna: [bus now stationary] This electrical system, this one works when you plug the bus in. Like if you are at a campground, then these go on, and these are very bright, fluorescent. And then when traveling, this system works. Therefore we have two separate light switch panels. One is for when we plug into the regular current, and the other one is on the road. The kitchen is very nice. I wanted to show you the kitchen, Prabhupada. It's a very different kitchen than the one that you saw originally. This is a very big kitchen. Five men can stand there. Very big. Cooking, very convenient. We've improved the buses since the last time you were here.

Prabhupada: Hmm. These scientists, they will not admit that Krsna is the original cause. [indistinct] they are trying to invent so many things and pacifying their followers, "Wait for millions of years. We will give you all solution." That millions of years will never be fulfilled, and their suffering will never go. That they do not know. Ataeva maya tare deya samsara duḥkha [Cc Madhya 20.117].

This life they make researches, and when they are failure they give bluff, "Wait millions of years." In the meantime he becomes a grass. He has to wait millions and trillions of... That's all. Again begin transmigration from grass to plant, plant to this, that, this, that. Stand up for thousands of years as a tree. Then another tree, another thousand, millions. You wanted to wait for millions, then you wait for millions. How long can you wait for... In this way, by transmigration. This is their destiny. And in this very life that I am prepared to go back to home, back to Godhead, that path they will not. They will wait millions of years to see their success. This is rascaldom. Wait millions of years. They do not know how they will wait. They will wait this way, again become grass. Then gradual evolution. It will take millions and trillions of years. Then again he will come to human form of life, and again he will say "millions of years." This is their intelligence. Hmm? What do you say?

Hari-sauri: Why wait?

Bali-mardana: Krsna fulfills everyone's desires.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Tamala Krsna: We should not wait.

Prabhupada: This is their intelligence, these rascal scientists. Their intelligence is they admit they will wait. But he is eternal, so eternally he must get some body to wait. And if he says that after this life everything finished, then what is the meaning of wait millions of years? If I am going to be finished, you are going to be finished after this life, then there is no question of waiting for millions of years. Who will wait? You are finished, I am finished, then who will wait?

Devotee (2): They say they're working for the children in the future, make a better future.

Prabhupada: But you are not going to wait. You are finished. And I am hearing, I am finished. And the children who will come, he will be finished. Who will wait? Who will wait?

Devotee (2): No one. [break]

Prabhupada: …asking to wait for millions of years. So who will wait?

Devotee (2): They think in terms of past generations. They see the progress of society from two thousand years or four thousand years, and they think of themselves as a part of that generation, that in the future, "Just see how far we have come from a hundred years."

Prabhupada: Part of a generation, that's all right. But a generation, so-called generation, you and me, everything will be finished. So who will wait? That is my point.

Devotee (3): What are they waiting for?

Prabhupada: Hmm? You wait or not, you will be finished.

Devotee (4): They are thinking that this is pursuit of the truth, that they are trying to theorize.

Prabhupada: Fools will follow you. And wherefrom he is coming with so much intelligence that the truth which you have discovered, somebody will come and catch up. His life, there is no continuation. Then there is no question of accepting your truth. We may not accept your truth. So many questions are there, but they are bluffing. Mūḍha nabhijanati mam ebhyaḥ param avyayam [Bg 7.13]. What is going on there?

Devotee: We're trying to fix this [indistinct].

Prabhupada: That is the science, they will have to wait millions of... That is a fact. But how they will have to wait, that these rascals they do not know. They will have to wait in this lower grade of life.

Devotee (2): Can a living entity have realization of transmigration without being Krsna conscious?

Prabhupada: Hmm? It is very easy, but you are so fool, you cannot understand it. Krsna is giving immediately. The child is transmigrating to the boy's body. The soul is from boy's body is going to youthful body. Very plain explanation. But because the brain is so dull, they cannot understand. Under their scientific brain, they have become so rascal that the simple truth they cannot understand. This is their scientific advancement. Hmm?

[pause]

Prabhupada: Why we are checked? Stopped?

Devotee (2): They are shifting some equipment for cooking.

Pusta Krsna: They consider, Srila Prabhupada, that this is the same..., they have a sense of not changing. That's there because the soul is not changing. Everyone has a sense that they are not changing because the soul is always there. But because they have no information of the soul, sometimes they think that because I have this body as a youth, I have this body as an old man or youthful person, the point is that they consider that it's the same person, the body, it hasn't changed. They stay the same person, simply it has grown, because they have the sense of the same identity. But can it be said...

Prabhupada: No, no. Grown means the original form is changed. You can call it in a different name, but grown means the original form has changed. We are also changed.

Pusta Krsna: So can it be said that one has the same body, or is it a different body?

Prabhupada: Hmm? It is different body.

Pusta Krsna: It is different.

Prabhupada: Otherwise why more species [?] coming? It has got a different body.

Pusta Krsna: What is the energy by which one conceives that it's the same body? Is that the false ego, by which he thinks that this is...

Prabhupada: No, dull brain. That Darwin's theory is that. Just like we are coming from apartment to this bus. This rascal says that apartment has become bus. That is his foolishness. I am the person from that apartment, I have come to this bus, it is a fact. But he is such a rascal, he says that apartment has become bus. That is the foolishness. How the apartment can become bus? You can say the person who was in the apartment, he has come into this bus. That is a reasonable understanding. But these rascals says that apartment has become bus. The monkey has become man.

Devotee (2): Like people sometimes go into a theater and they identify themselves with a motion picture. The movie that's on a screen, they become so emotionally involved, they cry and they laugh and they become completely involved with the picture.

Prabhupada: That is feeling. That is not identity.

Devotee (2): [to another devotee] Want me to pull it while you hold it up?

Prabhupada: There are many buses standing?

Devotee (2): This is a parking area for trucks. It's a rest area. We're just shifting some cooking equipment so they can prepare something.

Hari-sauri: We're going now. They just fixed that window.

Prabhupada: Hmm.

Pusta Krsna: A wonderful philosophy.

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Pusta Krsna: This is a wonderful philosophy. It never becomes boring. Never.

Prabhupada: So this wonderful philosophy you have to present.

Tamala Krsna: It's going to be nice and much quieter now, Prabhupada, with this window closed.

Devotee (2): Prabhupada's class is completely…Whew! Without this way of life that you've given us, life would be intolerable in the material world for one who is thoughtful.

Prabhupada: Yes, that is discussed ataeva maya tare deya samsara duḥkha. [Cc Madhya 20.117] Unless one understands this philosophy, he simply suffers. And because they are suffering, their only solace is this wine. They cannot find out any other. The more dull-headed, this liquor is solace for the sūdra class. In India, the liquor is taken by the lowest class, not intelligent class-the washerman, the cobbler, the butcher, like that. Most less, degraded.

Devotee: Ricksawalas.

[bus restarts]

Ataeva maya tare deya samsara-duḥkha. You continue to suffer. They are missing the point, struggling for existence. They have created this civilization, material civilization, full of factories. It is simply suffering, nothing but suffering. Maybe the factory proprietor may get some profit, but actually it is a place of suffering. Those who are working in the factory, they are simply suffering.

Tamala Krsna: That is mentioned here. Ataeva maya tare deya samsara-duḥkha.

Prabhupada: Samsara-duḥkha. Create suffering, one after another. Suffering.

Tamala Krsna: "When the living entity forgets his constitutional position as an eternal servant of Krsna, he is immediately entrapped by the illusory external energy."

Prabhupada: Become a servant of factory. We are servant of Krsna...

[break] We are not going to be servant of factory. Unless I give up Krsna consciousness, there is no scope for being..., to become servant. Just like this Subala, he is now washing dishes in a hotel.

Tamala Krsna: And I heard that Madhudvisa is now sweeping a floor in a restaurant.

Prabhupada: What do you think? [laughs] And what you were doing?

Devotee: Me, I was selling jewelry.

Prabhupada: I heard that you are driving car, driving a taxi.

Devotee: I tried it for a few weeks. For a couple of weeks.

Prabhupada: Anyway, we have to do this. As soon as we give up Krsna consciousness, these things are ready, "Come on." Krsna bhuliya jiva bhoga vancha kare pasete maya tare japatiya dhare [Prema-vivarta 6.2]. "Yes, please come." There is no other alternative. Either serve Krsna or serve maya, that's all. So unless one is rascal, how he will accept maya's service? Maya's service is not very palatable. But maya is ready. As soon as you give up Krsna's service... [break] [end]