Meeting with Mr. Suraj Narayan Raju, Endowments Commissioner – August 24, 1976, Hyderabad

I'll give you good money. You give up this Krsna consciousness

Prabhupada: But we are so...

[aside:] You can keep it there now. Keep. That's all right.

So we do not believe in these things, that there is Bhagavan, and Bhagavan comes, He has got a mission. Do you believe in these things? Frankly speaking, do you believe in these things?

K. Purushotamma Naidu: We do. We do believe. We feel it also in our body.

Prabhupada: Then you must act according to His mission. According to His mission. The mission is, yada yada hi dharmasya glanir bhavati bharata [Bg 4.7]. When we are engaged in glaniḥ dharma, which is not dharma-cheating. Glaniḥ, glaniḥ. What is the glaniḥ?

K. Purushotamma Naidu: Hatred. Hatred.

Prabhupada: No. Glanir means which is abominable.

K. Purushotamma Naidu: Abominable.

Prabhupada: Yes. Yada yada hi dharmasya glanir bhavati [Bg 4.7]. So what is that glanir? Glanir means... Dharma means dharmam tu saksad bhagavat-pranitam [SB 6.3.19]. In the Srimad-Bhagavatam, there is... Yamaraja said, dharmam tu saksad bhagavat-pranitam. Dharma cannot be manufactured by any man.

[aside:] You have got Sixth Canto?

Harikesa: Sixth Canto, Third Chapter, nineteenth verse.

Prabhupada: Yes, find this verse. Yamaraja said, dharmam tu saksad bhagavat-pranitam. Even the demigods, they cannot manufacture dharma.

"Real religious principles are enacted by the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Although fully situated in the mode of goodness, even the great rsis who occupy the topmost planets cannot ascertain the real religious principles, nor can the demigods or the leaders of Siddhaloka, to say nothing of the asuras, ordinary human beings, Vidyadharas and Caranas."

Prabhupada: Nobody can. This is the principle. So when so many rascal dharma is introduced, that is dharmasya glaniḥ. So we must know this. Then we can understand what is the mission of Bhagavan. When rascals are introducing so-called so many dharmas, that is dharmasya glaniḥ. Do you accept or not?

K. Purushotamma Naidu: Yes, we accept.

Prabhupada: Therefore, Bhagavan concludes at the end, "You rascal, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam [Bg 18.66]." This is dharma. To surrender to the Lord, that is dharma. And in another place, Srimad-Bhagavatam, sa vai pumsam paro dharmo yato bhaktir adhoksaje [SB 1.2.6]. Without this, all cheating. If there is no bhakti, surrender to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, all these kind of dharmas, they're all cheating. Therefore in the Srimad-Bhagavatam it is said, dharmaḥ projjhita-kaitavo 'tra [SB 1.1.2]. On this, Sridhara Svami has commented, atra moksa vancha api nirastam. Dharma artha kama moksa .

So according to this principle, they're all cheating. So-called religious system, artha, economic development, sense gratification. Just like that we have created so many social dharma: samsara-dharma, grhastha-dharma, this dharma, that dharma. So in that way, they're all cheating. Therefore, our request is that yajnarthe karmanaḥ anyatra loko 'yam karma-bandhanaḥ [Bg 3.9].

In the Balaji's temple, mostly poor cultivators, I have seen, they go. And they want to give something to the Lord. Yajnarthe. So the karmis, they're advised, yat karosi kurusva tad mad arpanam, "Give Me." So these karmis, somehow or other, by their great fortune they're giving something to the Lord. Yajnarthe. [someone enters] Aiye. That money should not be utilized for any other purpose. That is our mission. It must be utilized for the purpose to fulfill the mission of the Lord. Mission of the Lord is sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam [Bg 18.66]: how people can be trained up to give up all these nonsensical type of dharma, and how to become a devotee of Lord. For this purpose this money should be spent. Then it will be all right.

K. Purushotamma Naidu: Mostly it is utilized for that. Almost completely. Only one or two is mere, what is called, charity. The industry... There's been a wrong impression that we are working directly with industry.

Prabhupada: No, no. That is... It should be utilized simply for the purpose of awakening the devotional, what is called, inspiration. For no other purpose. Just like in the Caitanya-caritamrta it is said, nitya-siddha krsna-bhakti. Krsna-bhakti, nitya-siddha. This is our natural. Just like these Europeans and Americans, they have become krsna-bhaktas. So what business they had to do with Krsna? They're coming from Christian family, Jewish families, or some of them Muhammadan family. So what they have got to do with Krsna? They haven't got to do anything with Krsna. So how they have become a krsna-bhakta? Even the... Just like he is coming from Parsi family, he is coming from Jewish family, he is coming from Christian family, he is coming from Europe, he is coming from America. So what they have got to do with Krsna? We Indians, or Hindus, we may have some concern with Krsna, but what they have got? They haven't got anything to do with Krsna. Now you pay them one lakh of rupees and ask them, "You become again Christian. You become again Parsi." Just see. Make them again Christian. Practical. These are young boys. You ask them that "I'll give you good girl, I'll give you good money. You give up this Krsna consciousness, come here." Ask them. Make a test. They'll refuse; they'll kick out. How they have become? Therefore it is a fact, as it is stated in the Caitanya-caritamrta, krsna-bhakti nitya-siddha. Everyone has got krsna-bhakti eternally. It is not artificial. They have not become krsna-bhakta artificially. It is the eternal link that has been awakened.

K. Purushotamma Naidu: There's no doubt of that, Swamiji. Let us say there are hundred leprosy patients. There are one thousand orphans. We put them there, give them food, and make them pray to Krsna...

Prabhupada: Well, you are... They are mistaken. But if you have to awaken krsna-bhakti, why you go to the lepers?

K. Purushotamma Naidu: No, they have come here. They are all there in the temple. They are not allowing others to pray properly. They are all, one thousand... In the past...

Prabhupada: We have no objection, that..., because our principle is krsna-bhakti nitya-siddha. So krsna-bhakti is there in everyone. So leper and non-leper. Just like our Vivekananda, he took up daridra-narayana. This is an absurd proposition. Narayana is never daridra. But if you put this argument, that Narayana is everywhere, so if Narayana is everywhere, why you take up only daridra-narayana? Why not dhani-narayana also? If you have got so broad vision that Narayana is everywhere, therefore we see everyone, so why you particularly take the daridra-narayana? Similarly, krsna-bhakti is everywhere. It is in the leper or non-leper. So why should we take particularly the leper? So that is outwardly a social service, that they are taking care of the leper. So if that vision, it will not be right. Krsna-bhakti even requires... Even a karmi like big, big owner of factories, he's more diseased than the leper, because he has no krsna-bhakti. So we have to take care of the leper and the richest man also if he has no krsna-bhakti.

K. Purushotamma Naidu: That also. That also.

Prabhupada: No, therefore we should not make any distinction that only the lepers will be taken care of.

K. Purushotamma Naidu: Again, [a devotee:] ] a rich man or somebody comes, prays...

Prabhupada: Everyone is more than leper.

K. Purushotamma Naidu: He takes prasada in the temple, he goes. But this man is not allowed. He can't come. Therefore God goes to him.

Prabhupada: We have to take... You cannot manufacture where God goes. You should have to take lesson from God. That is one thing. If we manufacture ideas, that will never be successful. That will never be successful. Don't manufacture ideas. If you want to be servant of God, you must take instruction from God. That is wanted. You cannot manufacture idea, that "God wants this." So first of all try to understand what is God's mission. God's mission is, it is clearly said, yada yada hi dharmasya glanir bhavati [Bg 4.7]. So, more or less, everyone is entangled with this glanir dharma. They have manufactured. Just like the demigod worship. This is a glanir dharma. Krsna says, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg 18.66]. And Krsna clearly says, kamais tais tair hrta-jnanaḥ yajante anya-devataḥ [Bg 7.20].

So if you want to utilize, people are giving in good faith, Balaji, Krsna, their hard-earned money, whatever we are giving something. Yajna, that is wanted. Yajnarthat karmano 'nyatra loko 'yam karma-bandhanaḥ [Bg 3.9]. That money should not be utilized for any other purpose except yajna. First of all, you have to decide like that. Then we can give you direction. First of all, you have to decide that this money, not a single farthing should be spent for any other purpose than performing yajna. Then we can give you right direction. And if you have plan to utilize this money for any other purpose, that is not Krsna's mission; that is your mission. So first of all you have to decide whether you are going to execute Krsna's mission or your mission. Krsna's mission is very clearly defined. It is there. Everything is declared there in the Bhagavad-gita. We can do it very nicely. But if you want to do any other mission, then you can do. You are government, you are in power, you can do that. But that will not be pleasing to Krsna. He has got a mission. That is stated: dharmasya glanir bhavati. So any dharma, so-called dharma, which does not awaken their Krsna consciousness is glaniḥ. Krsna does not want that. If you're against the will of Krsna, against the mission of Krsna, if you want to do something, you can do it. People are doing so many things. That is also mentioned by Krsna.

Harikesa: Iti te jnanam... [Bg 18.63].

Prabhupada: No. That one verse is that one does not... Krsna's mission is that "Surrender unto Me." Now, who does not surrender to Krsna? That is stated by Krsna:

Anyone who does not surrender to Krsna, he must be grouped either duskrtina, mūḍha, naradhama, mayayapahrta-jnana, asuram bhavam. We do that. Anyone who does not surrender to Krsna, he must be grouped among them. And for them, what is their... Tan aham dvisataḥ krūran ksipamy ajasram.

[aside:] Find out this verse, tan aham dvisataḥ krūran...

If anyone is envious of Krsna, then what is his punishment?

Prabhupada: This is their punishment.

Harikesa: "Those who are envious and mischievous, who are the lowest among men, are cast by Me into the ocean of material existence into various demoniac species of life."

Prabhupada: And next verse?

"Attaining repeated birth amongst the species of demoniac life, such persons can never approach Me. Gradually they sink down to the most abominable type of existence."

Prabhupada: So this is my request, that our money... There is nothing "our money"; everything Krsna's. But we are thinking, because we are asuric. So asuras think like that. Just like Kamsa, Hiranyakasipu: "Hah!" Ravana: "Hah! What is Rama?" That is asura's. They think like that, and that is asuric. But otherwise, isavasyam idam sarvam . Everything belongs to Krsna. Therefore yajna is advised. The sooner you hand over Krsna's property to Krsna, it is good for you.

K. Purushotamma Naidu: Swamiji, we are karma-yogis. We start the day with surrendering to God and asking Him to show us the way. Beyond that, I don't know what our duty...

Prabhupada: But a karma-yogi, why you should take Krsna's money for karma?

K. Purushotamma Naidu: For what? That is for...

Prabhupada: That is the...

K. Purushotamma Naidu: It is not used. As you have correctly said, that way only it is used. There may be different...

Prabhupada: No, the first thing is that if you decide that Krsna's money should be utilized for Krsna's mission, so Krsna's mission is this, that sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam saranam vraja [Bg 18.66]. You have to bring them to the sense of Krsna consciousness. And there is a process. You cannot manufacture that process. You have to take the process from Krsna. That Krsna says: man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru [Bg 18.65]. Four things. You have to teach people how he can think of Krsna, man-mana. Then the mission is there. That is Krsna also. Krsna says,

You have to teach them like that. Satatam kirtayanto mam, as we are doing. We're always chanting Hare Krsna. But if you manufacture in your own way, that you can do. Yaḥ sastra-vidhim utsrjya vartate kama-karataḥ na sa siddhim avapnoti [Bg 16.23]. That will never be successful. If you have to execute the mission of Krsna, you have to take instruction of Krsna and do it rigidly. Then you'll be successful. Krsna..., Krsna's mission is that one must know Krsna and surrender to Him. This is mission. Krsna does not say that by karma-yoga one can understand Him. Krsna says, bhaktya mam abhijanati yavan yas casmi tattvataḥ [Bg 18.55].

You cannot say, "We are karma-yogis." Karma-yogi means the third class. He's karmi, and little mixed up with bhakti. Adulterated. Jnana-yogi, he's not a bhakta. He's jnani, but just to bring him gradually, a little bhakti. You see? And real bhakti is anyabhilasita-sūnyam jnana-karmady-anavrtam [Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu 1.1.11]. When it will be tintless of any karma and jnana, then it is pure bhakti. That is Krsna's mission. Sarva-dharman parityajya [Bg 18.66]. Not mixed up with jnana, karma, yoga. Otherwise, how Krsna says, bhaktya mam abhijanati? He could have said, "Any way," as these rascals say, "Any way go, you will get Krsna." That Krsna does not say. Krsna says, bhaktya mam abhijanati yavan yas casmi tattvataḥ [Bg 18.55]. Manusyanam sahasresu kascid vetti mam tattvataḥ [Bg 7.3]. Janma karma me divyam yo janati tattvataḥ [Bg 4.9].

So that tattva, bhaktya mam abhijanati yavan yas casmi tattvataḥ. So we have to take this. You manufacture in your own way, and still you carry out the mission of Krsna-that is contradiction. You have to take the lesson from Krsna. Then it will be successful. Karma-yoga is for the third class. They are addicted to karma, a little bhakti, that's all. That is not pure. Jnana-karmady-anavrtam [Cc Madhya 19.167]. When there is not a tinge of karma and jnana, that is pure bhakti. That is Krsna's mission.

So everything is there; direction is there. We can guide you-not according to our whims, but according to sastra. And if you agree to accept, then we can also cooperate with you. But if you manufacture your own way, then how we can possibly... Krsna's mission is this: yada yada hi dharmasya glanir bhavati [Bg 4.7]. Except krsna-bhakti, bhaktya, everything is glaniḥ. All glaniḥ. And that can be awakened, krsna-bhakti. Just like these boys are doing. That is enunciated in the Caitanya-caritamrta: nitya-siddha krsna-everyone has krsna-bhakti. You have to awaken simply. Nitya-siddha krsna-prema sadhya kabhu naya [Cc Madhya 22.107]. It is not artificial. Sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya. If the hearing about Krsna is pure... That is also confirmed in the Srimad-Bhagavatam:

So we have to follow this formula. This is sastra-viddhi: one step to another. And if you don't care for the sastra-viddhi, we can do that, but na siddhim na avapnoti: it will never be successful. It will be a show, big show, but there will be no siddhi.

[pause]

Prabhupada: If you want to do according to the direction of Krsna, our cent per cent cooperation will be there. We'll not touch a single farthing of your money, but we can give you direction, "Spend it like that." And government men, you can see that we are not touching a single farthing of your money, but it is being spent for Krsna's mission. That you can believe. It is the duty of the government men to see that people may not misrepresent. That is the Vedic injunction. Prthu Maharaja was to see that a brahmana is doing, acting like brahmana, ksatriya is doing like ksatriya. So it is government's duty to see that Balaji's money, Krsna's money, is to the farthing spent for His mission. That is your duty. That is government's duty, that nothing is misused, nothing is misrepresented. But we know how to execute the mission of Krsna. Everyone can know, because direction is there. It is not a secret thing. It is open secret. But you have to act accordingly. That requires training. And so far my experience goes, the whole world will take to Krsna consciousness. Unfortunately, I am struggling single-handed. And they are criticizing me in the Parliament. You have seen the recent article Blitz against me? What is that heading? "Ungodly face." I am doing ungodly? But they are advertising like that, trying to make me unpopular. The Mayavadis, they say that Bhaktivedanta Swami is ruining Hinduism. They are saying like that. [Transl. Don't they say like that? The Mayavadis?] So I am being criticized in Parliament, I am criticized by the so-called jagad-gurus who have never seen what is jagat. And so on, so on.

K. Purushotamma Naidu: No, for a country suffering from multiplicity of gods, Hinduism, you are doing a very great service, asking them to concentrate on Krsna.

Prabhupada: That is... Only God. Krsnas tu bhagavan svayam [SB 1.3.28].

K. Purushotamma Naidu: How you are enlightening them, it is a very great service. No doubt about that actually. They don't know. And you are making the man, the human being, a servant of one single divinity.

Prabhupada: This is not my manufacture. Sastra says, krsnas tu bhagavan svayam.

K. Purushotamma Naidu: They have said so many things in the name of sastra. They have said so many things in the name of sastra. That you are making it one is very good.

Prabhupada: No, those who are approved sastra is accepted by the acaryas. Sastra, which is accepted by the acarya, that is sastra. You cannot make. As you cannot manufacture religion, you cannot manufacture sastras. Approved by the acaryas. Acaryopasanam. Therefore Krsna says also that you should know from the acarya. Everyone, they are preaching Bhagavad-gita with the purpose of killing Krsna. Everyone. The politicians, the scholars, the rascals and everyone. The main purpose is how to kill Krsna. In Bombay I have got a very big friend, you know him. I do not wish to disclose his name. He has set aside ten lakhs of rupees from preaching Gita. But he wants Gita without Krsna. Rama without Sita. Ravana's policy. Take away Sita; Rama will remain alone. So take away Gita and cut Krsna. But I cannot make any compromise. I shall... My life is ended; now I'm eighty-one. I do not know... But so long I shall live, I shall make no compromise, krsnas tu bhagavan svayam [SB 1.3.28]. Drḍha-vrata. And that is a fact. Why shall I mislead people? They are searching after God, what is God. Here is God. Why don't you take it? See His activities. Aisvaryasya samagrasya viryasya yasasaḥ [Visnu Purana 6.5.74].

Tally with the formula of God, you see Krsna is there. Krsnas tu bhagavan svayam. So whatever teeny effort I have got, I shall try to establish temples of Krsna all over the world with my teeny income. I have got book sales. Krsna has given me very good chance. It is beyond any dream. We are selling books sixty thousand dollars daily.

Indian man (1): Six lakhs about.

Mahamsa: Thirty thousand dollars.

Indian man (1): Sixty thousand dollars.

Mahamsa: Yes, daily.

Prabhupada: And we are known the topmost publisher of religious and philosophical books in the world. And we are approved..., our books are approved by the greatest learned scholars of all universities. Because they are seeing a new light. No hodgepodge philosophy. India also, wherever we are going. Now he has come... Within how many days? Within a month.

Prabhavisnu: Yes, one month, in Uttar Pradesh...

Prabhupada: He has got seventy standing orders. Our books are, say, eighty. So eighty books, say, average five dollars. So eighty books, five dollars means...

Prabhavisnu: Four hundred dollars.

Prabhupada: Four hundred dollars. Such seventy orders.

K. Purushotamma Naidu: Four hundred by seventy.

Prabhupada: He has secured order in one month, seventy orders. In one place. Standing orders. "Whatever is published, give us, and then others, when they will be published, send also." They have not seen even the books.

Tirupati Balaji Temple manager: This is practical pracara, giving of books.

Prabhupada: No librarian, no university, no scholar, no professor is refusing. As soon as we go, "Oh, yes, bring. We shall take." So I am bringing money from the foreign countries by my selling books, and they are criticizing me that I am CIA. [laughter] Just see the fun. And there is nobody to give me protection.

Tirupati Balaji Temple manager: Not Lord giving protection? [laughter]

Prabhupada: No, Lord giving, giving. That I am confident. Because they are envious, "How Bhaktivedanta Swami is getting so much money? He's paying crores and crores. There must be some political..." As they are getting from Russia. But actually, I am selling. I am working night, writing these books, and these boys are helping me to sell it. I am getting enough money to spend it. What is my fault? For Krsna's sake we have sacrificed everything, our life and everything, and Krsna is giving us money and we are spending it, and they are criticizing in the Parliament. This is my misfortune. I don't take it as misfortune. Because asuras are always there. Even Krsna's time.

K. Purushotamma Naidu: They are criticizing, but not...

Prabhupada: Because we are getting so much money. For this temple we have to spend..., ten lakhs?

Mahamsa: Twelve lakhs.

Prabhupada: Twelve lakhs. So by selling my books. And I have sent him more than four lakhs, five lakhs from foreign countries. This is my fault. Similarly, in Bombay we are spending every month seven lakhs regularly. That is coming from foreign countries. And they are thinking that I'm taking bribe and acting as CIA. Just see. And CIA have become Vaisnavas with long sikha and giving up all facilities of life, and they are dancing with the CIA. People have no common sense that CIA agent could stay in a nice hotel and enjoy life. Why so much vairagya? Even my Godbrothers said that American government has given me two crores of rupees. Now we are planning to have a temple in Mayapur where... What is, what is the economic estimates, Ramesvara's… Where we shall spend how much money monthly?

Harikesa: Two hundred thousand dollars monthly.

Prabhupada: Two hundred thousand dollars monthly.

K. Purushotamma Naidu: Navadvipa?

Mahamsa: Mayapur.

Prabhupada: Two hundred thousand.

[break] Nobody will be able to check it. We'll go on. That is Krsna. Here is Dictaphone. I work at night. I get up at half past twelve, one, and I write books. And daytime I'm engaged. And daily either ten page, twenty page written, that is sent to Los Angeles. You have seen our Press? And they take care. How our books printed, have you got that film?

Mahamsa: I have it in 16mm. Yes.

Prabhupada: Why don't you show?

Mahamsa: Just now?

Prabhupada: Yes. It will take little...

Hari-sauri: [indistinct background conversation about projectors]

Mahamsa: I don't have a Fairchild. I have it in 16mm film.

Prabhupada: That's all right. But the Press...

Mahamsa: Yes, the Press film.

Prabhupada: You can show, they'll be...

[background talk about projectors]

How in the American industrial process we are printing our books. I made the Book Trust, sixty thousand dollars they are selling. So as author, I could have derived from them at least six thousand, ten percent minimum. Six thousand dollars per day. Six thousand dollars means sixty thousand rupees. That could have been my daily income. But I take little khicuri from them, that's all.

[Harikesa laughing]

Indian man: Two crores per year, it comes to... Mr. [indistinct], he was last month at Los Angeles.

Prabhupada: Yes.

[pause]

Prabhupada: Our farming projects, very successful. Now here, Badrukaji is also giving us some land. Aiye.

[someone arrives] [background conversation]

Hari-sauri: Basu Ghosh.

Prabhupada: So we have got big program. Any amount of money you bring to us, we shall spend it immediately.

[background conversation as devotees set up film] [pause] [loud kirtana in background] [break]

Prabhupada: There is a logic, andha-pahgu-nyaya. One man is blind, another man is lame. Both are useless. But when they combined together the lame man was taken by the blind man. So the lame man has got eyes, he was giving direction: "Go this way." So both their work was done. So I say that India is lame and America is blind. Let us combine together. Then we can give a great culture for the benefit of the whole human society. India has no money-lame. And they have got money, but they have no knowledge. So let us combine together. This is logic. Andha-pahgu-nyaya.

So by this cooperation they have... When I was in India I published three parts of Srimad-Bhagavatam with great difficulty. And now, since I have gone there, I am publishing every month a book. So on account of their cooperation we are able to publish so many books and organize the sale all over the world. But it is true that this culture is very much welcome all over the world. That is happening. That is real execution of the mission of Krsna. Not to keep Krsna within the boundaries of certain areas. Aham bija-pradaḥ pita. Sarva-yonisu kaunteya [Bg 14.4]. He's the father of all living entities. They should know it.

We have got many other films also-how we are giving protection to the cows in different farms, how we are getting sumptuous milk. Two years ago there was an article in the Navabharat Times in Delhi, big article, one full page, first page. And the heading was that New Vrindavan [Transl. the Yamuna of spirituality and the rivers of milk and yogurt are flowing.] They gave this heading. And they gave all details how things are going on. In New Vrindavan in Virginia, we have got one thousand acre of land, and we are utilizing it. How they are living peacefully. So we want to make an example here with this six hundred acres of land, if it is given to us. Krsna's formula is there: annad bhavanti bhūtani. Produce sufficient quantity of anna. Everyone will be satisfied. Annad bhavanti bhūtani. Krsna never says by factory bhavanti bhūtani. [laughter]

Yajnarthat karmano 'nyatra loko 'yam karma-bandhanaḥ [Bg 3.9]. This formula should be... That is Krsna's mission. Krsna's mission... What to speak of Krsna's mission, Krsna [Transl. they are killing Krsna only]. Bas. [Transl. They are firing the treasury. The poor Krsna is telling] personally, aham adir hi devanam [Bg 10.2]. [Transl. And they are saying] Krsna nirakara. He's personally speaking. And Vyasadeva writes, bhagavan uvaca. [Transl. The propaganda is going on. There is no God whatsoever.]

Tirupati Balaji Temple manager: [Transl. They don't know the reality, hence they don't accept.] [break]

Prabhupada: Idam jnanam akhyatam?

Harikesa: Iti te jnanam akhyatam.

Prabhupada: Iti te jnanam akhyatam...

Harikesa: Guhyad guhyataram maya. I'll get it.

"Thus I have explained to you the most confidential of all knowledge. Deliberate on this fully and then do what you wish to do."

Prabhupada: Just see. Krsna has explained everything, all confidential. Now consider about it, think about it, and do whatever you like. Yathecchasi tatha. The liberty is there. Whatever you like, you can do. Krsna will not force. He can force, but He does not interfere with little liberty. Then he becomes stone. Living entity has got little liberty because he is part and parcel of Krsna. When Arjuna was decided, nasto mohaḥ smrtir labdha, Krsna gave him liberty: yathecchasi tatha kuru [Bg 18.63]. But he voluntarily accepted, karisye vacanam tava. Find out.

Prabhupada: This is real religion.

Harikesa: "Arjuna said: My dear Krsna, O infallible one, my illusion is now gone. I have regained my memory by Your mercy, and I am now firm and free from doubt and am prepared to act according to Your instructions."

Prabhupada: That's it. Yes, that is real religion. That is translated in Bengali,

"Now I am prepared, nasto mohaḥ, now my illusion is over." Karisye vacanam tava. That is perfection. Krsna gives you liberty, whatever you like you do. But when you come to the conclusion, "No, I shall do what you say," that is perfection. I can do whatever I like. That liberty is there. But if I accept Krsna's instruction, that is bhakti. Find out that verse, satatam kirtayanto mam yatantas ca drḍha-vrataḥ.

"Always chanting My glories, endeavoring with great determination, bowing down before Me, these great souls perpetually worship Me with devotion."

Prabhupada: This is religion. They are mahatmas. Previous verse?

"O son of Prtha, those who are not deluded, the great souls, are under the protection of the divine nature. They are fully engaged in devotional service because they know Me as the Supreme Personality of Godhead, original and inexhaustible."

Prabhupada: That is mahatma. This is mahatma. Mahatmanas tu mam partha [Bg 9.13]. Find out this...

Harikesa: Daivim prakrtim asritaḥ bhajanty ananya-manaso jnatva bhūtadim avyayam.

Prabhupada: Sa mahatma sudurlabhaḥ. Bahūnam janmanam ante jnanavan mam prapadyate [Bg 7.19].

"After many births and deaths, he who is actually in knowledge surrenders unto Me, knowing Me to be the cause of all causes and all that is. Such a great soul is very rare. [indistinct background conversation-very loud kirtana]

Basu Ghosh: Srila Prabhupada? This gentleman is the head of the Marwari community, Mr. Inani. They only speak Hindi. They would like to speak to you, but they don't understand English.

Prabhupada: No, I can... [Transl. I can speak in Hindi.]

Indian man: [Transl. You can speak, but mostly you are speaking in English.]

[break]

Prabhupada: Unless one is enthused, he cannot preach. It is not possible. I went there when I was about seventy years old. I was sitting in Vrndavana. So I thought that "My Guru Maharaja wanted this; Caitanya Mahaprabhu wanted me. So in this old age, let me try." [indistinct] But by Krsna's grace it became successful. Tesam satata-yuktanam bhajatam priti-pūrvakam, dadami buddhi-yogam tam [Bg 10.10]. So there is good field for propagating this cult.

[Transl. Here young men don't come at all. There young men are giving up drinking wine, and here young men are learning to drink wine. There they are giving up eating meat, and here they are learning to eat meat. In Juhu, there is a large beef shop. Hindus have now started eating beef. Then what else remains?] And I inquired some of the Hindu boys that "Do you eat beef?" So they began to smile, then they accepted. [Transl. When one eats meat then what is the big deal about eating beef or this or that. Eats everything. ]

K. Purushotamma Naidu: [Transl. Once I said in a big meeting that it is our duty to stop cow slaughter.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. What's the value of your saying?] The platform is finished. [Transl. Just by speaking what will happen? Who will hear? In Bengali there is a saying, kahcaya na noyale bahsa, bahsa karbe tyansa tyansa. You know bamboo? When it is green you can bend it. And when it becomes yellow then tyansa]

K. Purushotamma Naidu: [Transl. It breaks.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. It will break. In the beginning they were not taught and now that they are yellow what will you teach? They will break.] Now, yathecchasi tatha kuru [Bg 18.63]. Yathecchasi, yatha icchasi tatha kuru.

K. Purushotamma Naidu: No, we are ready for that. There is actually no difference at all than what you are saying. As a matter of fact, government is..., that's what I said, they have started their own society, the society of Krsna bhaktas. They have started only with Krsna. This is a great service. This country, other countries... This country itself, it is such a great service.

Prabhupada: Whole world will accept.

K. Purushotamma Naidu: This country itself is such a great service. It will require miracle. It was badly needed. This can lead later.

Prabhupada: [Transl. Endeavor for this cause. Spend for this.] We can cooperate.

K. Purushotamma Naidu: Unless you are so single-minded it can't be. Therefore you say there is no compromise. Otherwise, if there are compromises, there will be adjustments, it will lead to dilution. We understand.

Prabhupada: [Transl. If I would have compromised...] These boys, when they come for initiation, no compromise: "You have to do this. No illicit sex, no meat-eating, no intoxication, even up to smoking cigarettes or drinking tea, no gambling. If you accept, then you become my disciple." They accept. No compromise.

K. Purushotamma Naidu: Let us start to convey a great coordination, because you are establishing a center here. That will be very good.

Prabhupada: We are meant for this purpose, coordination, but if you take our... [aside:] Hare Krsna. You have taken prasadam?

K. Purushotamma Naidu: Yes, we did.

[minister and temple manager leave] [break]

Prabhupada: ...and he is such a big man that he goes above the acaryas. Ati-buddhi. Ati-buddhi galaya daḍi. "If one is overintelligent, hang him." That is a Bengali saying. Ati-buddhi galaya daḍi. If one is unnecessarily overintelligent, just hang him with a rope in the neck. So he is ati-buddhi. Anyway, he was intelligent to purchase.

Mahavisnu: [aside:] He thought that it would explain [indistinct].

[background conversation]

Prabhupada: You have to read the subject matter. Even if he thinks that it is written by Bopadeva, such a great knowledge, one has to read. Such great knowledge is not possible by Bopadeva and unless he is incarnation of God, Vyasadeva. It is said... Give me this. Not this. [Transl. Come. Sit down.]

Mahamsa: Which volume do you want, Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: Second volume. Variyan esa...

Harikesa: Second Canto, Part One, verse one.

Prabhupada: Find out this. Variyan esa...

Prabhupada: Find out that verse when he says, "I have heard it from my father." Parinisthito 'pi nairgunya. The verse begins parinisthito 'pi nairgunya.

Harikesa: Idam bhagavatam nama? Idam bhagavatam...

Prabhupada: No, no, before that. Parinisthito 'pi. The word begins with parinisthito. Idam bhagavatam nama. No?

Prabhupada: Ah, yes.

Harikesa: "At the end of the Dvapara-yuga, I studied this great supplement of Vedic literature of the name Srimad-Bhagavatam, which is equal to all the Vedas, from my father, Srila Dvaipayana Vyasadeva."

Prabhupada: Just see. And these rascals say Bopadeva. The speaker of Bhagavatam, he says that "I learned it from my father." His father is Vyasadeva. And these rascals say Bopadeva. Just see. And they are posted in big post. With such nonsense knowledge, they are posted in big post. He does not know who is the author of Bhagavata. Here it is distinctly said, "I learned it from my father." So his father is Vyasadeva. You take this verse. If anyone says... So Sukadeva Gosvami is the speaker of Bhagavata, he's admitting that "I've learned it from my father." And where the Bopadeva comes? Is that right?

Devotees: Yes, right.

Mahavisnu: I was trying..., that if I began to oppose him, then he would not take the book.

Prabhupada: No, no. Scholarly. Just present that here is the... Sukadeva Gosvami is the speaker of Bhagavatam. He says, "I learned it from my father." And who is his father? Bopadeva or Vyasadeva? This is going on. That is finished? [Transl. How many are there?]

Mahamsa: Yes. Only two of them. One of them is here, but he was not at home, and the other one is out of station. So we'll get their signature when they come.

Prabhupada: Two of them have signed.

Mahamsa: Yes. Hariprasad and Shrinivas, they have both signed. And Shri Krishnan-dyuta, he's here but he was not at home or something.

Prabhupada: He'll sign?

Mahamsa: Yes. He will do whatever Hariprasad says, and Omkar Lal is the youngest brother, so he will also sign. Shall I keep this, or would you like to keep it here?

Prabhupada: As you like. You can keep it.

Mahamsa: I'll lock it up.

Prabhupada: What is that? Group?

[indistinct comments by devotees] [pause]

Devotee: When I speak to some of these archaeologists that I meet, these professors, I ask them do they believe in the historical validity of this Mahabharata and Bhagavatam, and they say, "Personally, I believe, but officially we have to follow the archaeology, the techniques of measuring the time." So they have two faces: one for official life and one for personal life.

Prabhupada: Duplicity. Duplicity.

Devotee: Yes. But there are some of them who are trying to prove also that the Mahabharata was historical.

Prabhupada: Mahabharata, that very name suggests history. "Bigger India." Maha means bigger, and Bharata means India. Can you answer?

Prabhavisnu: There is one verse in the Bhagavad-gita, in Chapter Seven,

The meaning of this verse is that all living beings in the material world are born into delusion, overcome by the duality of desire and hate. So the fact is that the living entity, he desires to become great. Just like God is very great, so the living entity wants to imitate God, and therefore he comes in this material world, and he tries to become great and very powerful. This is desire. He tries to enjoy himself. And also iccha-dvesa: he becomes envious of the Lord. Most people... Many people in the material world, they don't like to admit that God exists or that there is someone greater than themselves, because they think themselves to be the greatest. This is the disease of material life. But the cure for this disease that we have to accept...

Prabhupada: You know that? There are so many rascals, they say, "I'm God." You know that? That is the problem. If somebody says, "I am God," is it a fact? But he says like that. He's such a rascal. That is the point.

Indian man: In spite of all falsehood, people accept him as God.

Prabhupada: Rascals.

Indian man: Many great scientists and professors are also following them.

Basu Ghosh: This man has come to read the Oriya book. He can read Oriya. So... He wanted someone to translate. They have come.

Prabhupada: Where is that Oriya book? Find out.

Harikesa: The one Gargamuni...

Basu Ghosh: Yes. Orissan language, Orissan language.

Prabhupada: [Transl. One who calls himself God, he is mad.]

Indian man: I was just speaking, please be realised that you are [indistinct] because of that you are able to keep…

Prabhupada: Do you think that realization is good, if anyone realizes that he is God? Do you think he has actually realized anything?

Indian man: What they realize they don't think what the difference is.

Prabhupada: What is the proof? Everyone can say, "I am God," but where is the proof? He must act like God. If somebody says, "I am the richest man," simply this statement will do, or we must see how he is rich?

[pause]

Prabhupada: Hmm. Give him.

Devotee: You can read.

Indian man: [Transl. This] Founder Sri Srimad A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada...

Prabhupada: Hmm, please start from here.

Indian man: [Transl. This] founder Sri Srimad... [break] [end]