Room Conversation

October 11, 1977, Vrndavana
Devotee: This is one introductory... "Bhaktivedanta Institute Lecture Series on the origin of life and matter, sponsored by Bhaktivedanta Institute."
Prabhupada: Get this.
Devotee: Here is a copy...
Dr. Kapoor: Yes, I was given a copy also this morning.
Rupanuga: This is a partial list of those who've been invited.
Dr. Kapoor: How many of these people are going to speak?
Rupanuga: Svarupa Damodara has invited a couple of opposing scientists to speak, also, so that we can discuss two points of view.
Dr. Kapoor: That's good.
Rupanuga: Yes. A couple of important men. Also three of our GBC men have been invited to speak in informal discussion in the evening-Satsvarupa Maharaja, Hamsaduta Maharaja, and one other. I'm not sure.
Dr. Kapoor: Are these tulasi beads red-colored?
Rupanuga: No, no. Very old beads.
Dr. Kapoor: What are they made of?
Rupanuga: I don't know.
Dr. Kapoor: Not tulasi?
Rupanuga: No.
Brahmananda: These are the original beads that we got in New York when Prabhupada made the first initiations. There were no tulasi beads available in New York City.
Dr. Kapoor: No, I see. (laughs)
Rupanuga: We went to a bead shop on 14th Street.
Dr. Kapoor: I see. (laughs)
Rupanuga: Japanese beads.
Dr. Kapoor: That has some historic significance, yes.
Rupanuga: Actually, they come out to be very long. Six feet.
Dr. Kapoor: You can now get tulasi beads from here, because it should really be tulasi and not any other thing. Japa-mala.
Rupanuga: Srila Prabhupada chanted on these, so...
Brahmananda: Now they're tulasi.
Dr. Kapoor: (laughs) (pause) Prabhupada seems to be slightly better today. He takes interest in other things and wants to speak.
Brahmananda: You're feeling better today, Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: (Bengali) ...syrup.
Dr. Kapoor: That syrup, he says, that has...
Prabhupada: (Bengali)
Dr. Kapoor: Let us see. Apply the method of elimination. Eliminate the syrup today and see what the effect is.
Brahmananda: Syrups have made some difficulty?
Dr. Kapoor: Syrups, he says they seem to be somewhat intoxicating.
Brahmananda: These are by the allopathic or...
Dr. Kapoor: Must be allopathic, because the syrups are tonics. Every tonic has that effect partly.
Prabhupada: Only work... The kaviraja's strong medicine... I think that... On the whole, the condition is not better.
Dr Kapoor: That I think is due to the syrups, you see. The intoxicating effect can be of the syrups only. Because in allopathic there is some alcohol mixed always. So let us eliminate that today and see how the Ayurveda medicine alone works. Nothing intoxicating in the Ayurvedic medicine.
Brahmananda: I know one of the medicines had twenty-five percent caffeine.
Dr. Kapoor: Ayurvedic?
Brahmananda: No. The allopathic.
Dr. Kapoor: Oh. Allopathic. The syrup that was brought.
Brahmananda: One of them. Upendra was saying.
Dr. Kapoor: Let us stop that today.
Prabhupada: On the whole, the nature of the conference, how do you like?
Brahmananda: How do you like, on the whole, the nature of the conference?
Dr. Kapoor: It's a good idea. It should be... The conference should be interesting at least. (laughs)
Brahmananda: You're coming?
Dr. Kapoor: I'll try to come. My wife has been ailing, so I'll try to find time and come.
Brahmananda: Begins on Friday in the morning.
Dr. Kapoor: Friday in the morning. No, three days perhaps.
Brahmananda: Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.
Rupanuga: Ten-thirty Friday, it begins. About 10:30 in the morning.
Prabhupada: All bona fide scientists.
Dr. Kapoor: Yes. It should be a very representative gathering if they all come.
Brahmananda: He's expecting ninety to come.
Dr. Kapoor: Ninety to come, oh. Then it will be a grand success.
Prabhupada: (Bengali) ...theory, they are doing nonsense. Vivekananda's theory, Darwin's theory... Who is that Ram? Ramakrishna's theory. Another. What is that Ram?
Brahmananda: Another Ram?
Dr. Kapoor: Ram-tirtha.
Prabhupada: Ram-tirtha. Without life, life coming is bogus. Darwin's theory. Have all been discussed?
Brahmananda: In this booklet? I haven't see it.
Dr. Kapoor: The most wonderful thing is that they say life comes from matter, and they don't know what matter is. They don't know what matter is. They confess, "We don't know what matter is." Yet they say life comes from matter. Not one scientist till today has been able to say what matter is. Rather, they have confessed, "I know not what matter is." Even the biggest scientists, they have made this confession.
Prabhupada: And a person from whom life is coming, He says aham adir hi. And they will not come. Where is Tamala Krsna?
Hari-sauri: He's in a BBT Trustee's meeting right now, Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Now, whatever direction...
Brahmananda: Prabhupada was saying that one of the medicines has made some intoxicating...
Upendra: He hasn't taken any medicines or any of the syrups that the previous doctor recommended. Just...
Brahmananda: Nothing from the allopathic.
Upendra: No. We've given him this morning protein, liquid protein, one spoonful in the juice he drank. You're talking about this morning? And yesterday we gave him glucose and one spoonful of Liquiline Natural Herb.
Brahmananda: So no allopathic medicine were given?
Upendra: No. Nor were they recommended. They were just... If you want to call them allopathic nutrients... No medicines.
Dr. Kapoor: No, but were those syrups given?
Upendra: No.
Bhavananda: What was given yesterday?
Upendra: Yesterday the bhinbukshu(?) cream. Yes, that was given, the green bottle and the bottle up there. Yesterday barley water in the morning with a little bit of Complan. And after that, some cough developed, and then the doctor came and gave some of that medicine with musumbi(?) juice.
Brahmananda: Which medicine?
Upendra: The Ayurvedic. The vaidya. He had grape, glucose and whey. Then he had this vitamin here, this one. Then he had some more medicine with musumbi juice, and that was it yesterday.
Hari-sauri: This is vitamins.
Rupanuga: It doesn't say there's any alcohol in it.
Upendra: There isn't... They're Shaklee products.
Rupanuga: One thing, Srila Prabhupada, after fasting for a long time, even some sugar, even sweets make intoxication in the system. Glucose and the sweet juices, fruit juices, this may make a little intoxication.
Upendra: Yes, this morning he had grape, glucose and one spoonful of that instant protein. That would have been really energetic.
Dr. Kapoor: This bottle is pure vitamins or something else?
Brahmananda: Yes. There's no...
Dr. Kapoor: No alcohol.
Rupanuga: Madhava, can you explain to Srila Prabhupada who the speakers are?
Madhava: So, Srila Prabhupada, Svarupa Damodara has invited scientists from Delhi University...
Brahmananda: Who will speak? Who will be the speakers?
Madhava: I think Dr. Mishra is coming to speak, and Dr.... Is that R.K.? R.K... I haven't spoken to him myself. He's going to be speaking on Sunday.
Brahmananda: What are these cards?
Dr. Kapoor: Where is he from?
Madhava: He's from Delhi University, I believe. He's from the AIIMS, the All-India Institute of Medical Science. He's head of the biophysics department. There was a Dr. Kavoor, I believe his name was. Kavoor?
Brahmananda: From Shree Lanka.
Madhava: No, no. That was... (laughter)
Jayadvaita: He can be invited to be kicked with shoes.
Madhava: Maybe it was Kival. No, here it is, Kapil. He's from Delhi University. He's in the botany department. He's going to speak.
Rupanuga: Then there's some opposing.
Madhava: There's one... Yes. I think it was Dr. Mishra who was going to give some ideas of his own that were a little different from ours.
Dr. Kapoor: Doctor Mishra from Delhi University. Physics department.
Madhava: Yes. Biophysics. He was going to give a talk on the theory of living states.
Dr. Kapoor: Are any of those people from the philosophy department of Delhi University, are they going to speak?
Madhava: There was some coming from the philosophy department, but I don't think they're going to speak. There was one who's going to speak on the limitations of science. I don't know if his name is listed here. Oh, yes, here it is, Dr. Ramaya. He's going to speak on the limitations of scientific method.
Dr. Kapoor: Is he a philosopher or a scientist? Biochemistry.
Prabhupada: We are concerned with the scientists.
Brahmananda: Yes, these are all scientists. They're philosophers?
Madhava: This one philosopher is coming.
Dr. Kapoor: Ah, no, but is any of the philosophers going to speak?
Madhava: No.
Dr. Kapoor: So you'll not go to the root of the problem, you see. It will be something superficial.
Madhava: We consider the philosophers to be superficial. They have no evidence to back up their words.
Dr. Kapoor: (laughing) That can be a subject for discussion by itself. All the modern scientists are taking to philosophy, because there comes a stage in scientific investigation, you see, where you cannot but philosophize. You see?
Madhava: Yes. But the philosophers cannot continue in their own speculations.
Dr. Kapoor: What is philosophy? Philosophy is not thinking in that form. Philosophy is systematic thinking. It is systematic thinking. The scientists must be systematic.
Prabhupada: The scientists... Without systematic, how it is science?
Dr. Kapoor: Yes. And the science is basically unsystematic in the fact that it starts with certain assumptions which by itself is unscientific. Why should you start with certain assumptions? Philosophy does not commit that. Philosophy... I don't raise the questions. You see? Why do you believe that matter is ultimate? Why do you believe that spirit and time are ultimate? Science believes in assumptions. Philosophy has not taken that for granted. Very systematic thinking. Therefore I say you'll not go to the root of the matter. It will be just superficial thing.
Madhava: We are trying to apply both.
Dr. Kapoor: Yes, both. As a matter of fact, there is no watertight compartment. They're not simply a part of each, then. They're dovetailed. Science penetrates into philosophy, you see?
Rupanuga: But the root of the problem practically is whether life comes from matter and matter comes from life, and that is the basic theme...
Dr. Kapoor: That is the basic theme, but the philosopher will ask the question, "You must first be very clear in your mind about these basic concepts, What is life and what is matter?" You may have some idea about life. Because we are life ourselves, we have some experience, some idea of life. But what is matter? No scientist has any clear conception of matter.
Prabhupada: Matter has no consciousness.
Brahmananda: But matter has no consciousness.
Dr. Kapoor: Matter has no consciousness, but what exactly it is? And you see, I tell you, matter has no consciousnessthis is also an assumption. You see? The analysis of matter has revealed to the scientist, the physicist, that what remains in the ultimate analysis is at least not matter.
Prabhupada: Matter, when you combine together, reveals some reaction. That's all.
Brahmananda: When you combine matter together, it just gives some reaction.
Dr. Kapoor: True, but the question remains...
Prabhupada: Just like soda, acid and soda. Mix together. There will be effervescence. That is matter. And life means gives impetus: "Do this." It is not comparable(?) thing.
Upendra: Time for giving him this juice, so... [break]
Prabhupada: A child can speak sensibly, "Mother, give me this." But soda, alkaline and acid, mixed, it can give some dead effervescence.
Dr. Kapoor: Matter can produce matter only.
Prabhupada: That's all. It has no sense.
Dr. Kapoor: Another form of matter, that is all.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dr. Kapoor: Matter cannot produce life.
Prabhupada: Yes. A third matter. That is matter. You can take matter and... Tejo-vari-mrd-vinimayam. Mix earth with water, and put it into fire and then make a building. But matter automatically cannot do it. This is...
Dr. Kapoor: Yes. It's mind that manipulates matter.
Prabhupada: Matter cannot have mind, neither consciousness nor impetus.
Dr. Kapoor: But this philosophical discussion strains you, Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Brahmananda: He's saying you are strained by this philosophical discussion you're having.
Prabhupada: No. It is nonsense that matter gives life. That we want to prove. Matter has no... Matter, I have studied it. Life is superior energy. Apareyam. This matter is useless. Bhumir apo 'nalo vayuh kham manah [Bg. 7.4]. They are inferior. Apareyam itas tv viddhi me prakrtim. Another, yayedam dharyate jagat [Bg. 7.5]. This is actually governing the whole universe. They have defied this apareyam me prakr..., param. They have not accepted. The scientists are speculators, most of them. Philosopher means materially thinking.
Brahmananda: Materially...
Prabhupada: Thinking.
Dr. Kapoor: So I think I should take leave, Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: All right.
Dr. Kapoor: If I stay on, we'll continue to speak.
Brahmananda: So they are getting now free transportation. "For all invited guests-food, lodging, and transportation between Delhi and Agra, and the conference site will be arranged free of charge." So these are all confirmations, people's signatures.
Dr. Kapoor: I see.
Prabhupada: Who is giving free?
Brahmananda: We are giving free transportation, lodging and food.
Dr. Kapoor: Free transportation from Delhi. Not from other places.
Brahmananda: No, just Agra and Delhi. I think everyone is invited from these two places. These have been mailed in or our men have gone?
Madhava: They have been mailed in.
Brahmananda: These are mailed replies. These have been posted invitations.
Madhava: They expect about 150 people altogether.
Dr. Kapoor: Anyway, it's going to be an interesting thing, the first of its kind in Vrndavana.
Brahmananda: This is the first conference you've had?
Madhava: Yes.
Brahmananda: It's the first in the world.
Rupanuga: First time.
Dr. Kapoor: First in the world. (laughs)
Brahmananda: All glories to Srila Prabhupada. [break] Atreya Rsi and Parivrajakacarya Swami are here.
Hari-sauri: They brought you a big plate of fruits and things, from Tehran.
Prabhupada: Hm.
Atreya Rsi: This is sweet lemon.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Atreya Rsi: It is sweet lemon. The juice is very sweet.
Prabhupada: Now give me.
Atreya Rsi: These are plums. They could be skinned and the drink is very good for you, soft.
Upendra: Juice comes from them?
Atreya Rsi: Yes. It's very, very good for digestion.
Prabhupada: Sit down.
Parivrajakacarya: Srila Prabhupada? This is a pre-publication copy of our first magazine in Persian language.
Prabhupada: This is Persian language?
Atreya Rsi: Parsi, Parsi.
Brahmananda: This is the name of it here?
Atreya Rsi: Yes. The name is "Bhakti."
Prabhupada: I understand that you go to the royal family and talk with them for hours. So it is very good sign.
Parivrajakacarya: Yes. There's... Some people in their family are very good, and they're very interested in learning about Bhagavad-gita, Krsna consciousness. They can do... They can do very good things for the world if they simply have knowledge of what to do. So we're trying to preach to intelligent people.
Prabhupada: Yes, intelligent. Yad yad acarati sresthas tat tad evetaro janah [Bg. 3.21]. What intelligent man takes up, so ordinary man, ordinary generally follow. Bhagavad-gita is meant for rajarsi, not for foolish. Imam rajarsayo viduh [Bg. 4.2]. Not for a so-called loafer class. Imam vivasvate yogam proktavan aham. That is being mistaken. Bhagavad-gita should be taught to such royal family, and if they take up, others will take up. Hm? Atreya Rsi?
Atreya Rsi: Yes, Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Do you follow?
Atreya Rsi: Yes, Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: This is a good chance that you have got, a connection with royal family, and if you turn them to saintly, then the work is successful. Imam vivasvate yogam proktavan aham avyayam [Bg. 4.1]. Not that third-class foolish can understand what is Bhagavad-gita. The same building I went to see?
Atreya Rsi: Jaya Srila Prabhupada. Jaya. That building now is a restaurant. We have many people every night come and take prasadam. About seventy to a hundred people come.
Prabhupada: What do you supply?
Hari-sauri: What do you supply?
Atreya Rsi: We give them one thali-two vegetables, dal, rice, salad...
Prabhupada: One thali?
Atreya Rsi: One full thali.
Hari-sauri: Plate.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Atreya Rsi: Thali of prasadam. And sweet. And then we give them some herbal tea and dessert and sometimes fruits.
Prabhupada: They like it.
Atreya Rsi: They like it very much. Nandarani Prabhu and Dayananda Prabhu are managing.
Prabhupada: They are both intelligent.
Atreya Rsi: Yes. They are working very hard.
Prabhupada: And they are very sincere. What do you charge?
Parivrajakacarya: About sixteen rupees, fifteen tomands(?). It is very little price. It's very small.
Prabhupada: For one plate?
Atreya Rsi: One plate. Very reasonable price. But many people give donations. And many of them take the books. We have your books. They take, and they read it, and they love it.
Prabhupada: Success.
Hari-sauri: What kind of people do you get?
Prabhupada: High class.
Atreya Rsi: Higher class. Very intelligent, educated...
Prabhupada: The low class, they purchase that big ruti. (laughs) That's all.
Atreya Rsi: Big capati.
Prabhupada: They cannot come to the restaurant.
Parivrajakacarya: No.
Atreya Rsi: Some people even come, higher class people, and work. They give their service in the restaurant. They wash dishes. They serve tables. We engage them in bhakti-yoga.
Brahmananda: What's the name of the restaurant?
Atreya Rsi: Govinda.
Prabhupada: So you make good profit.
Atreya Rsi: It's your mercy, Srila Prabhupada. (Prabhupada chuckles) They respect you a lot in Tehran. The royalty respects you. The businessmen respect you. They really respect Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Persian civilization, very high, Aryan civilization.
Atreya Rsi: There was this Persian boy who was translating Bhagavad-gita. He had come with me last month to Vrndavana to have your darsana. Then you had gone to London.
Prabhupada: Anyway, things are going nice-slow but sure. You have got this Persian civilization and he has got the African civilization. (laughter) Black and white.
Bhakti-caru: Srila Prabhupada? (Bengali)
Prabhupada: (Bengali) [break] ...coming with the report of Persia and...
Hari-sauri: He's saying he's very much pleased when you gave the report of Persia.
Atreya Rsi: You should come and visit us, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: I am ready to go immediately.
Atreya Rsi: Jaya. You will come, Srila Prabhupada. There are millions of people waiting for you.
Prabhupada: And now you have to take a bundle of bones. That is the difficulty. There is nothing... Bundle of bone.
Bhakti-caru: Bone or flesh, your body is divine, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Bone is being separated from life. Here, by example, the matter is different from life. Matter is inferior; life is superior. From my life you can... Why the Persian people love me?
Atreya Rsi: They respect your philosophy, Srila Prabhupada. They understand the philosophy. They respect the philosophy.
Prabhupada: Very good.
Atreya Rsi: They respect chanting. They see that your boys are pious and they're chanting the names of God and they're doing wonderful things, and they respect it. They see your books, wonderful philosophy, always glorifying God. They respect God. They're religious.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes.
Atreya Rsi: And they know that nobody else is doing this.
Prabhupada: Persians, they are Aryans. When they were attacked by the Muhammadans they fled from Persia to India. [break]
Atreya Rsi: ...and they come regularly. Some of them come every night to take prasadam, respectful, very nice Parsis who have come back from India to Iran.
Prabhupada: Oh. Some of them gone there.
Atreya Rsi: Yes. They have come back because there are very good jobs, and government is encouraging them to come back. So they come back.
Prabhupada: Very good.
Atreya Rsi: And actually Persians have very high philosophy, but they don't have no one who will engage them in devotional service. And the most intelligent ones see that you are actually engaging people in devotional service. And there is no oneno one in Iran-despite their high philosophies, who is engaging anybody in devotional service. So they see the results, and that's why they respect you.
Prabhupada: So as soon as I get opportunity, I shall go and meet them.
Atreya Rsi: Jaya Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Thank you very much.
Atreya Rsi: Thank you, Srila Prabhupada. [break]
Prabhupada: Very good chance.
Parivrajakacarya: These people, they are the door to people all over the world who are rulers, because they are the closest friends of King Khalid(?) of Saudi Arabia, King Hussein of Jordan, King Constantine and Queen Tina of Greece. They know all over the world this whole set of rulers who have great opulence and great intelligence and who simply lack spiritual knowledge.
Prabhupada: Guidance.
Parivrajakacarya: They lack guidance. They lack brahmanas. Instead, they have cunning ministers who simply want to have the same opulences as they have. But these are the people. They can change the world.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Parivrajakacarya: If we can only give them philosophy, they can do the...
Prabhupada: Raja. And if we turn them rsi, then our mission is fulfilled. Very good. Now you have started your own business.
Atreya Rsi: Jaya Srila Prabhupada. With your blessing. The business is not important, but it is a medium for Krsna consciousness. My secretary is already a devotee, and the other people are also becoming interested. The goal is to have a Krsna conscious group working in the society.
Prabhupada: Go very slowly. Never mind. You all young men. All right. Go on chanting. [break]
Tamala Krsna: Jaya Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: What meeting is going on?
Tamala Krsna: We had two meetings today. One meeting was the BBT meeting for the completion of the Bombay project. And then another meeting was about our community Gita-nagari. Describing how it will be... Dhrstadyumna Maharaja has come with his brother, who's the architect. And we're having a meeting for planning this ideal community very exactly, everything. The people present at the meeting are Bhavananda Maharaja and Paramananda, Vamanadeva, Dhrstadyumna Maharaja, Tripurari Maharaja, Balavanta, Rupanuga. All these people have experience with..., you know, like Bhavananda in Mayapura. Balavanta has two farms, Rupanuga, all of these people. In other words, we're just trying to plan out... And Surabhi Maharaja. And Dhrstadyumna Maharaja's brother is an architect. In fact I've just been told that his architectural firm is the same one that's designing the... What is that? Designing a big thing in Tehran for the Shah of Iran. It's a very big architectural firm. So we're just trying to plan a very ideal community. We don't want to make a hodgepodge of it. I mean it should be so ideal that it becomes one of the most wonderful preaching tools for our movement, to show that "Here is an ideal community based upon Vedic principles, and it's perfect in every respect." So it takes a little cooperative thought and planning. That's why we've invited so many people to sit in the meeting.
Prabhupada: I was very happy when I heard, respectable gentlemen, out of love, they are washing dishes. You know that? Atreya Rsi told me.
Hari-sauri: Yes. In Iran. Some important people in Iran, just out of some... To do some service, they're even going in the restaurant and assisting by washing the dishes, and they're bringing things here and there.
Tamala Krsna: It's really devotional.
Prabhupada: They are so gentle.
Tamala Krsna: That's what we're feeling with this community also, that actually people will become so much impressed with this wonderful way of life that they'll want to take part voluntarily. If something is done very nicely, if Krsna consciousness is presented very nicely, then any gentleman will want to take part.
Prabhupada: Hm. That is good. That's all.
Tamala Krsna: Many people will come to this community to see how it is done. I think it will become very, very important in many different respectsfor farmers, for people who are interested in designing ideal communities, for so many people who would like to live an ideal life, for people who want to come and see a unique place to visit, because there will be a temple of Krsna-Arjuna there, a doll exhibit. I think it can be a wonderful preaching opportunity. And most wonderful of all is if we can exhibit self-sufficiency, that simply by farming the land, we can get enough grains, and taking care of the cows, we can get enough good foods to keep the body healthy. We can produce our own clothing. This is very much needed in this age. It's a positive alternative to artificial civilization. And the center will be Krsna. All of the different activities and varnas will be demonstrated, and all the different asramas will be ideally being lived by the different devotees. People will see everything that they're doing is here but in its pure form and everyone working happily and cooperatively together. Actually, Srila Prabhupada, in order for it to really work you have to come there, to be very honest. I know it will never be there unless you come and stay with us there and just show us and teach us. 'Cause I've seen practically that although everything is already written, Your Divine Grace has had to come and show personally a little bit, "Do like this; do like that." As the acarya, you have adjusted everything perfectly to suit the situation of the present day and age. No one else could do that, none of your Godbrothers. No one in India could ever do that except you. So you are required. Everything is there, but you are also..., you have to be there. Otherwise I don't know if it's actually possible. And it's very important. You have to get better, Srila Prabhupada. We're prepared to stay with youall of the devotees feel this wayto encourage you to get better. Our plans are there, we're there, but we need you. You have to be there with us to guide us. I think that this disease is simply Krsna testing our actual..., our love for you, Srila Prabhupada, so that we will learn that we fully need you, 'cause actually we do. Everything we've done in this movement you've guided us with. We're realizing that you have to continue to guide us. We're not self-realized. We simply are able to carry out your instructions. So we have nothing else to do but to be with you here until you get healthy again and then lead us. This is our business nowto be with you. It seems like there are so many opportunities now that are beginning to present themselves. When you first went to the West there was nothing at all, and you created a whole world of Krsna consciousness. And now the public is beginning to actually take a real interest in our movement and people, respectable people from all over the world, are coming forward to want to help our movement. So there's a great facility that's available now even more than ten years ago. So if we've made so much progress in ten years, in another ten years there's no way to measure how much our movement can be expanded. And we're all just ready to follow each one of your directions. You don't have to tax yourself by... You can just talk to us and tell us, and we'll act. And we're very happy. In the meantime, we will give you the medicine of hari-nama.
Prabhupada: Hm. That is real medicine.
Tamala Krsna: I think that our being here and chanting before you is spreading this movement, because the more we chant, the more love and dependence we develop for you, and that's making us strong in our Krsna consciousness, and therefore our movement is getting stronger. Every day that we stay here, we become stronger in our devotion for you and dependence on you. (pause) I think that I should just tell them to end their meeting now. They're waiting for me, Srila Prabhupada. Then I'll come back in a little while and chant. Actually you have to get better, Srila Prabhupada. Kirtanananda Maharaja has built this palace. It's only meant for you. We were seeing pictures of it today. It is so beautiful. It is exactly the place that you want to retire in and translate. And this community of Gita-nagari will be just proper place to give direction how to establish nice spiritual community. These two places are very close to each other-New Vrindaban and Gita-nagari. They're only three hours away from each other. Two very good communities for showing the example how to spread ideal Vedic life. We were discussing that actually it is not anything new that Krsna can make His devotee better, because we were reading before in the Caitanya-caritamrta how sometimes Lord Caitanya would bring back to life someone who had even expired. And His associates were able to do that. And there is many cases. I think if we are very determined, then Krsna will surely fulfill our desire.
Prabhupada: Without fail.
Tamala Krsna: What, Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Without fail.
Tamala Krsna: Without fail. And I can see even though this is a difficult time, actually it's still very sublime, because... This is wonderful, that all of your senior disciples are coming and we're all chanting and you're hearing and we're hearing. And actually it's a very wonderful... Even though it's critical, it's very wonderful, because we're all chanting the holy name. And then gradually Krsna will answer our prayers. And in the meantime we're becoming purified by chanting like this, and you're pleased by hearing our chanting. Most people, when they are ill, everything is very horrible. But this is very different. It's all spiritual. So we're very satisfied. Of course, we want you to get better immediately. But still, as long as it takes, we're very satisfied to remain chanting and expecting Krsna's mercy at every moment. Jaya, Srila Prabhupada. I'll come back in a little while, Srila Prabhupada. I'll just end that meeting. [break]
Giriraja: I had a very wonderful meeting with the chairman of the bank. And he's ready to do anything to satisfy us and keep our business. So he said that he was going to get rid of the man who is on this counter, Mr. Gupta, and give us some more young, dynamic, cooperative person to be in charge over here. And we completed the formalities for transferring the fixed deposits to the main branch, and he assured me that it was a completely routine transaction and that if the local people tried to do anything to stop it, that he would himself personally see that it went through smoothly. So I gave them the certificates. It was not necessary to sign them. We just gave the certificates, and they gave us a receipt. And they're going to endorse the certificates. So they are payable from New Delhi instead of from Vrndavana, and then we can go and collect them. And the chairman also called the assistant general manager. He was also very nice and very sympathetic. So he's going to come on Saturday, and he's going to look into everything, all the difficulties here. And I said that he could bring his family and they could take prasadam. So they're all going to be coming on Saturday at about eleven o'clock. I had submitted a letter with eleven things that we wanted. You know, we want the hours to be regular, we wanted a new person here, we wanted our interest on timejust a list of different things. And he said that there's no problem, and they're just ready to do whatever we want. They gave the impression that they would dismiss any number of people here that were giving us trouble. But I said that I thought that the main person was this Mr. Gupta, and so they said they would replace him. It was very good. But still, even if there are improvements here, I think it's better to keep the fixed deposits in New Delhi.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes.
Giriraja: Because they are the responsible people, the big city, cosmopolitan, and these small towns there's always danger.
Prabhupada: So certificate must be transferred there.
Giriraja: Yes. We've given them the certificates and the letter, and they've taken the responsibility. They're sending the certificates by registered post to the Vrndavana people with their instructions to transfer the money to New Delhi. So those will definitely reach here by Saturday when the assistant general manager comes. And if there's any hesitation, the assistant general manager will take care of it when he's here on Saturday. And I would think that by Monday or Tuesday we could get the certificates changed officially. And then, I think, we should have a least one account in their main branch in New Delhi. It would probably be easier to get inward remittances there. And if we want the interest from the fixed deposits to be kept there, we can have an account there for that. And that will keep us in good contact with the head office.
Prabhupada: That's all right. Hm. [break]
Lokanatha: No books in India have such beautiful illustrations. Everyone appreciates. So far, we had small books, but now we have Bhagavatam. We have Teachings of Lord Caitanya in Hindi. They are purchasing. And all those who purchase books will definitely read your books. So far, we were giving big books to life members, free, towards their donation, but not many of them were reading. Some of them were reading. But now those who purchase books by paying money, they definitely will read. Because they have a liking for reading, so they will read. And our sales are increasing. Hindi books are being sold more and more.
Prabhupada: Where is Upendra?
Upendra: Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Upendra? If I sit down like this, between the two loins, I... It gives me pain.
Upendra: In the lower spine?
Abhirama: That's that sore.
Upendra: What about that pillow, that round pillow?
Abhirama: The bigger one is...
Upendra: Srila Prabhupada? Do you remember that little round pillow with the hole in the center? Do you think that would help? No. It's... You put it... Or if you lean.
Prabhupada: That part, if I sit down too long, that part gives me pain.
Upendra: Then you can lay..., sit up for maybe five minutes sometime, and again in the afternoon for five minutes, little time, and then we can lay you down now if you like. We don't have to keep you up for real long. But just the sitting up helps a little bit, and then, when there is some discomfort, too much, then we can lay down again. (end)

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