Room Conversation

June 17, 1977, Vrndavana
Tamala Krsna: So is that because they... They're in the heavenly enjoyment, but they see that that is not the ultimate, and unless they are born in Bharatavarsa and get the opportunity for perfection in bhakti, they cannot achieve that ultimate, Krsna consciousness. It seems that this is a very fortunate position, to be in this Bharatavarsa.
Prabhupada: Yes, it is favorable position. (indistinctvery faint)
Tamala Krsna: I was seeing tonight when I was circumambulating the temple that the people... I could see that they're enjoying this field of enjoyment, completely unaware of the rare opportunity that they have. And then I was looking at the Deities, and I was realizing that the whole purpose of this temple and our movement is to give this opportunity to people to utilize this rare birth properly. [break]
Prabhupada: (extremely faint) Grandson says? What is that? "Grandson says"? Supersoul? Something very extraordinary. Triumphant. "I shall be triumphant." [break] (indistinct) That is Indian style. "Krsna we must move. Now this child is trying to turn Himself. Turn Himself." There is ceremony. This is ceremony. This is Indian way of raising up children. Sad-bhaksana.(?) When we were small children, we were all, brothers and sisters, three mo..., three years before us. So naturally, when mother was young, she became pregnant. So there were three, four ceremonies during, within the period of three years. One is called sad-bhaksana. Sad-bhaksana. The idea is... That (indistinct) he is dangerous. At the time of delivery the woman is in danger. There may be so many dangers. Therefore twice sad-bhaksana, at the period of seven months and perhaps in nine months. Whatever she likes, she should eat. So that ceremony, new cloth, very nicely dressed, taking bath, all the children, not only her children but other children also, very nice foodstuff made, and sit together, and with the children the mother will eat. And the brahmanas should be given some charity. They will chant Vedic hymns. The same thing is being observed by mother Yasoda. That was the samskara. Then utthana.(?) Then anna-prasana, when the child is... So much care is taken for the children. And these rascals are killing children. They are civilized? To avoid botheration. What a terrible civilization. And they are claiming to be civilized. Full day(?) pregnancy their children will be there. And man and woman... That is meant for the woman, but... And before childbirth there is propaganda to kill. What is that?
Satadhanya: Abortion.
Prabhupada: No, abortion when pregnancy. No.
Tamala Krsna: Vasectomy. Vasectomy. They sterilize.
Prabhupada: Sterilize.
Tamala Krsna: Yeah, sterilization.
Prabhupada: Simply propaganda not to beget children. "Enjoy sex life." What is this horrible civilization?
Tamala Krsna: Now it's come in India. This new prime minister, he still says, "Our goal is," I think, "twelve million sterilizations this year," and he's holding Bhagavad-gita.
Prabhupada: A horrible position. People have lost their freedom, their culture, spiritual life. Here so much care is taken for children, and they are so opulent. They are fully opulent and spending money lavishly for the welfare of the child. And they are spending money lavishly in the hotels, in the brothels, in slaughterhouse, the liquor shop, and kill. And this is going on as civilization.
Tamala Krsna: They don't understand at all how to be happy.
Prabhupada: Most uncivilized. Most uncivilized. I have described to you, "two-legged animals."
Prabhupada: And this cannot allow, discussion.
Prabhupada: It is civilization of two-legged animals. They will say now they are taking pleasure. Is there any guarantee that if one has got two children, the government will take care of everything? Two children or three children or hundred children, the government is not able to guarantee. Why this humbug?
Tamala Krsna: Government cannot... This government cannot guarantee anything. They have no power.
Prabhupada: So why they are so much anxious, "You should not overpopulate"? Even in these days in India, in the interior villages they invite you that "Please come. We have got enough grain, enough milk. You eat with us. Chant Hare Krsna." And they are going forcibly there to give this sterilization. They have no problem.
Satadhanya: In Mayapura we went on the boat down the Ganges. So we went... Even the poorest village man, he gave some banana leaves, some papayaso opulent, fruits, vegetable, everything... [break]
Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. [break] Make ata, kneading very nicely, just like you do for capati, but make lump, round balls, around the fire. The same fire upon, one pot rice, one pot dal. And down, these small, round ata. Just like you make for capati. Go on. Then, after sometimes, you see, everything is prepared. Boil very nicely. Then these ball should be put into ghee, and the dal should be chaunce. It will be first-class.
Upendra: These ata balls, they...
Prabhupada: Just like you knead ata. Same.
Upendra: And they're put into the mixture, I mean to say, the...
Prabhupada: Make in the kandi(?) fire. Kandi fire is like this.
Upendra: Oh, yeah.
Prabhupada: So upon the top there is one pot rice, one pot... And round that fire put these balls.
Upendra: Do you have to turn them?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Upendra: Turning them little...
Prabhupada: When it is downside little blackish, then turn. It is difficult?
Upendra: No, it sounds very simple, almost too simple. You take these balls, bread balls...
Prabhupada: Then put in a ghee pot.
Upendra: Hot ghee or just ordinary ghee?
Prabhupada: Melted.
Upendra: Melted ghee.
Prabhupada: And dip it and take it out.
Upendra: This, I think this is a... This sounds like you're cooking out in the jungle.
Prabhupada: Yes. It will be very digestive. You can try one day.
Upendra: Yes. Bread balls.
Prabhupada: Put in kandi fire.
Prabhupada: This gobar, cow dung chip.
Upendra: Cow dung chip is called kandi?
Prabhupada: Yes. Yellow(?) chip. They say in Hindi, kandi.
Prabhupada: Or in Bengal it is called ghuntiya. Ghuntiya.
Upendra: Ghuntiya. Kandi or ghuntiya. And that's rice, dal and... What are these balls? They have a special name?
Prabhupada: Yes. This is called laktha. Laktha.(?)
Upendra: Laktha.
Prabhupada: Laktha.
Upendra: Laktha.
Prabhupada: This is the foodstuff for the tourists.
Upendra: For the tourists?
Prabhupada: A man is working. Now he has got with him rice, dal, ata. Now anywhere he can collect this dry gobar and set fire. And he has got his lota, and he's cooking. Very palatable and digestive.
Upendra: The balls, laktha, they're looking... I mean, when they are finished, they are looking brown or black?
Prabhupada: No, brown. Brown and blackish spot.
Upendra: Black spots.
Prabhupada: Then it is prepared, very... Just like loaf.
Upendra: Yeah, bread loaf.
Prabhupada: Then put it into ghee. That according to your... Put it long time or keep it or take it, as you can digest.
Upendra: It sounds... You may have instructed some devotees like this long time ago, because in San Francisco the devotees would sometimes make... Instead of making the capati, they would make the balls and put it in the oven and then afterwards put butter on it and sometimes honey. They like honey. They dipped in honey. But it was the same thing, only put in the oven because we didn't have this cow dung chip. You may have instructed then. I never knew where they got this idea of putting the balls in the oven.
Prabhupada: Oven is also good, but this is the best.
Upendra: This is the best. Best flavor, open fire.
Prabhupada: So you can try any day.
Upendra: Kandi fire.
Prabhupada: I may eat or not eat, but you try it, how it comes.
Upendra: Yes. First we'll get one...
Prabhupada: Kandi.
Prabhupada: You can purchase. The kandis are going on. Ask somebody to..., who can keep it.
Upendra: And we put it in the clay stoves, the clay, the clay fire pot.
Prabhupada: No.
Upendra: No? Just open on the ground?
Prabhupada: Yes. No fire pot required. Simply gather together and set fire. That smoke is fire. It will increase. Just in a plate you can do it. This plate, the washing plate, that will do. It can contain four, five big kandi. That is sufficient.
Upendra: Rice, dal and laktha.
Prabhupada: Yes. Laktha. You can make experiment.
Upendra: Yes. I would like that. Sometimes we might find ourselves having to walk in...
Prabhupada: First of all purchase some kandi. And keep it in corners of... In this veranda keep it.
Upendra: It keeps... I see the farmers. They keep it in...
Prabhupada: Oh, yes.
Upendra: ...big... For long time.
Prabhupada: They go out, loaded. Ask the caukidara. He'll call.
Upendra: Do you want to go to the temple now? It's nine.
Prabhupada: Half past nine.
Upendra: Half past nine.
Prabhupada: Where is Tamala?
Upendra: I think in the next room. I haven't looked yet. Should I call him?
Prabhupada: Half past nine.
Upendra: Half past nine. [break]
Prabhupada: ...you can put masala, bhadraka,(?) little salt, little turmeric.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Prabhupada: Yes. And if the pots are made of earth, earthen pot, it is still better.
Upendra: When earthen pots are cooked with, they are finished afterwards?
Prabhupada: Yes. Throw it. That was the Hindu system. The earthen pot is used daily, and it is thrown away, specially for Deity. So Caitanya Mahaprabhu was sitting on the rejected earthen pots. Philosophy discussion was going on.
Upendra: With His mother.
Prabhupada: Yes. So earthen pot is so nice. Jagannatha Puri, they cook it in earthen pot and throw it away. It is very palatable. You can try an earthen pot.
Upendra: Yes. (aside:) I will make rice, dal, and preparation called laktha, bread balls that go around a cow dung fire, in an earthen pot.
Prabhupada: You can begin experiment, one, two, three, and become perfect.
Upendra: Yes.
Prabhupada: It is very digestive, very palatable and suitable for me, this kind of food. Yes. It will automatically increase appetite. It is so nice.
Upendra: It all sounds very natural and wholesome, clay pot...
Prabhupada: So you can try.
Upendra: ...cow dung fire, rice, dal, bread.
Prabhupada: So? When you are going?
Tamala Krsna: Whenever you're ready, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: I am ready.
Tamala Krsna: Okay. [break]
Prabhupada: That is not his cooking. After he takes, his disciple may also take.
Prabhupada: Before leaving home I was loitering here and there, "If there is any shelter, this?" But that time in Harigrama(?), I stayed there for two, three days. Nice temple. He has construction of the workers also. I'll try some of that... That is next.
Tamala Krsna: Your Guru Maharaja had many disciples. Like you, he was very merciful. You have so many disciples, we have lost count.
Prabhupada: I, I have disciples all over the world. They have got specially in Bengal.
Tamala Krsna: Special?
Satadhanya: In Bengal.
Tamala Krsna: In Bengal, local. Your Guru Maharaja knew that you would do this, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Hm. He foretold.
Tamala Krsna: "Time will come he will do."
Prabhupada: That time I could not understand.
Tamala Krsna: But he knew.
Prabhupada: And in my horoscope there was written there, "After seventieth year this man will go outside India and establish so many temples."
Tamala Krsna: Really?
Prabhupada: I could not understand. "What is this, that I have to go outside India? That is not..." And Guru Maharaja foretold. He told my Godbrothers, Sridhara Maharaja and others, that "He'll do the needful when time comes. Nobody requires to help him." He told in 1935. And after all, this was true(?). Guru Maharaja told. And in the beginning, first sight, he told, "You have to do this."
Tamala Krsna: No one helped you. That's a fact. You asked that...
Prabhupada: Who?
Tamala Krsna: ...Tirtha Maharaja for some help, he didn't help at all. He wouldn't even give a little place.
Prabhupada: Nobody. Everyone admits.
Tamala Krsna: Actually, when you intended to go to America, everyone was advising, "Better not go. It is too dangerous for someone of your age. Do not go." Someone even said that you may not come back.
Prabhupada: I thought all this. I went to USA not to come back. I left here hopeless. I did not want to come back. I went with determination that "If I do this job, I will survive." So Krsna helped me. I never desired to come back. It was 197... Er, no, 1968. You all helped, so I called you: "I want to return back. There are so many secretaries."
Tamala Krsna: Yeah, you called me from France.
Prabhupada: London.
Tamala Krsna: I was in Paris.
Prabhupada: Yes, and you were Paris.
Tamala Krsna: Yeah.
Prabhupada: That "I want to go back. There is some conspiracy. Don't want."
Tamala Krsna: You said, "Take me out of here. It has become like fire." I remember. 1970, it was, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: No, it was 19... Maybe '70.
Tamala Krsna: It was. August.
Satadhanya: Yes.
Prabhupada: It was hint already, that "I want to go back."
Tamala Krsna: Actually at that time we were massaging your heart. It was such a shock to you. And I remember, the only medicine you want... We were massaging your heart and reading Krsna book. And you developed a very bad cough.
Prabhupada: I do not wish to recall that. It was intolerable. Then these things were now brought to... Otherwise I did not like to come back. I would have stayed.
Tamala Krsna: Ahh. Wow.
Prabhupada: I made my headquarter in Los Angeles. And they made a conspiracy against me. That's all.
Tamala Krsna: I never understood that.
Prabhupada: Otherwise I made it my own story(?). (pause)
Tamala Krsna: Well, whatever the reason, by your coming here it was wonderful also.
Prabhupada: That means Krsna desired. Otherwise I had no plan to come back here.
Tamala Krsna: Your business was in the West. Still it is, you said. Still, whatever we're doing here...
Prabhupada: Therefore I took this permanent residency.
Tamala Krsna: Not intention but... Do you regret having come back to India?
Prabhupada: No, it is well. My plan was like that, but Krsna's plan was different. When I was coming back, I was speaking to Dvarakadhisa, "I do not know. I came here to live. Why You are driving me away?" While leaving Los Angeles I was not happy.
Tamala Krsna: Oh, I remember.
Prabhupada: But He had this plan.
Tamala Krsna: Pretty nice plan.
Prabhupada: Krsna wanted that "You left Vrndavana. I'll give you better place in Vrndavana. (chuckles) You were retired in Vrndavana. I obliged you to leave. Now you come back. I'll give you better place." So He has given a temple hundred times better than Los Angeles. Is it not?
Tamala Krsna: There's nothing comparable in the three worlds.
Prabhupada: Hm. So it is always by His desire. [break] That conspiracy was... [break] ...also. I did not discuss.
Tamala Krsna: You said that to us.
Prabhupada: Yes, I gave some hint.
Tamala Krsna: I could understand later on how it... Your hint I could understand more fully. Very subtle.
Prabhupada: Very.
Tamala Krsna: Anyway, now we're trained to the point where that can never reoccur. Not... Never. That could only happen because we were so new at that time.
Satadhanya: Due to ignorance.
Tamala Krsna: Took advantage of us. It's like... At first we were mongrel dogs. Now we are a little bit trained to keep away all the disturbers. [break]
Prabhupada: ...opposition of my constructing a temple in Mayapura.
Tamala Krsna: From the very beginning. First you asked for land. That was refused. Then you sent money, but for three yearsnothing. I think you sent money twice.
Prabhupada: So many things also.
Tamala Krsna: Then we were even stopped by the elements, when we went... You took us, and we went and stayed at Devananda Gaudiya Matha. But the rain suddenly came so strongly, (Prabhupada chuckles) we could...
Prabhupada: Could not cross to the other side.
Tamala Krsna: No. Then you said, "Perhaps Krsna wants us to establish in Vrndavana and not Mayapura." So you were going to send me to see this Madan Mohan to try to negotiate.
Prabhupada: Anyway, forget the past. Push forward.
Tamala Krsna: I think you once said that sometimes Krsna tests to see how sincerely the devotee is determined.
Prabhupada: Krsna not only tests but punishes those who are criminals.
Tamala Krsna: Criminals.
Prabhupada: Like Krsna punished Durvasa Muni. He was criminal against Ambarisa Maharaja. Krsna never tolerates. Vaisnava may tolerate. Krsna will never tolerate.
Tamala Krsna: Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Hm.
Tamala Krsna: I'm going to go now to... [break]
Prabhupada: ...without guidance of spiritual master.
Tamala Krsna: Blind. We are blind, for sure.
Prabhupada: Everyone is blind.
Tamala Krsna: Especially we are the most blind. Your vision is the most keen.
Satadhanya: That is the feature of your particular mercy. You have taken the most blind, the most fallen, hopeless, and you are succeeding in guiding them.
Prabhupada: All right.
Tamala Krsna: Jaya... (end)

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