June 2, 1977, Vrndavana
Svarupa Damodara: ...this summer and he can come. We can provide free lodging and...
Prabhupada: Yes, everyone should be provided free lodging.
Svarupa Damodara: We can invite about two hundred guests and have a week-long conference.
Prabhupada: If they voluntarily give contribution, that's all right. Otherwise we shall provide. We have got guesthouse. It is very nice. Even they do not pay, we shall pay.
Svarupa Damodara: We can make scientific propaganda. And we can also do the same thing in Bombay. Bombay will be bigger.
Prabhupada: Therefore you have been trained up, (chuckles) for this purpose. [break]
Giriraja: So we drafted a will, including the trust for the properties of India and some of the other...
Prabhupada: Will? Will, there will be direction that "Management should be done like this." That's all.
Giriraja: Yes.
Prabhupada: Nobody can say in court case that "This temple will be in charge of this person, this temple..."
Ramesvara: Yes, just like you said.
Giriraja: So we've included those points and the points in your brief will. Should I read it?
Prabhupada: Hm?
Giriraja: Then we can type it. "I, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, Founder-Acarya of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, settler of the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust, and disciple of Om Visnupada 108 Sri Srimad Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Maharaja Prabhupada, presently residing at Sri Krsna-Balarama Mandir in Vrndavana, make this, my last will. 1. The Governing Body Commission, GBC, will be the trustees of the entire International Society for Krishna Consciousness."
Prabhupada: You can... Then there will be question, "The trust deed will be given? Then there will tax."
Giriraja: No, because the ISKCON trust is already there, and ISKCON is already tax exempt. The only difficulty is if you create a new trust.
Prabhupada: No, no new trust.
Giriraja: No.
Prabhupada: Instead of trustees...
Tamala Krsna: Use a different word.
Prabhupada: Ah!
Ramesvara: Not to apply in trust.
Giriraja: Oh, I see.
Ramesvara: It's a different word.
Prabhupada: Supreme managers.
Gopala Krsna: Supreme managers. (laughter)
Prabhupada: Or the ultimate managers, like that.
Gopala Krsna: The ultimate executives?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: Yes, the executors.
Gopala Krsna: Ultimate executors.
Tamala Krsna: Or commissioners. You have...
Prabhupada: Hm. Yes, commissioners.
Tamala Krsna: Commissioner is good, 'cause it's already...
Prabhupada: Use such word.
Tamala Krsna: Use a word that's proper.
Giriraja: Okay.
Tamala Krsna: For now just use one word.
Giriraja: "2: Each temple will be a trust property..."
Prabhupada: Again "trust" word.
Gopala Krsna: Again "ISKCON property."
Giriraja: Okay, we can change that wording.
Prabhupada: Hm.
Giriraja: "...and will be managed by three committee members."
Prabhupada: Hm, yes.
Giriraja: "The system of management will continue as it is now. There is no need of any change. 3. The property in India will be managed by the following committee members: A. Properties at Sri Mayapura Dhama, Panihati, Haridaspur, and Calcutta-Gurukrpa Swami, Jayapataka Swami, Bhavananda Goswami, and Gopala Krsna dasa Adhikari; B. At Vrndavana-Gurukrpa Swami, Aksayananda Swami, and Gopala Krsna dasa Adhikari; C. At Bombay-Tamala Krsna Goswami, Giriraja dasa Brahmacari, and Gopala Krsna dasa Adhikari; D. At Bhuvanesvara-Gaura-Govinda Swami, Jayapataka Swami and Bhagavata dasa Brahmacari; E. At Hyderabad-Mahamsa Swami, Gopala Krsna dasa Adhikari, and Bali-mardana dasa Adhikari."
Tamala Krsna: And Sridhara.
Giriraja: "And Sridhara Goswami. The committee members who have herein been designated are appointed for life. In the event of the death or failure to act for any reason of any of the said committee members, a successor committee member or committee members may be appointed by the remaining committee members, provided that the new committee member is an initiated disciple and following strictly all the rules and regulations of ISKCON as detailed in the books of His Divine Grace..." Oh. "...detailed in my books, and provided that there are never less than three or more than five committee members acting at one time. 4. I have created, developed and organized the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, and as such, I hereby will that none of the immovable properties in India in the name of ISKCON shall ever be mortgaged, borrowed against..."
Prabhupada: Why India? Everywhere. Everywhere.
Ramesvara: See, in America sometimes we will borrow against the temple to "fry the fish in its own oil." So we wanted to make this language just for India, that they can never even mortgage it or risk it in any way.
Prabhupada: All right. But outside they can do?
Ramesvara: Outside they have...
Tamala Krsna: Jayapataka Maharaja just said that the temple buildings should never be mortgaged. Other buildings might be, but what about the temple buildings? Just like in Los Angeles you have many buildings. The temple building should never be mortgaged, but others may be.
Prabhupada: There is a word, devayatana,(?) Indian. Devayatana property can never be mortgaged, sold or risked. (background whispering)
Tamala Krsna: In America... Just like in New York there's a twelve-thirteen-story building. The temple only occupies the ground floor. They can't mortgage... Sometimes if they want to get other properties, they may want to use the asset of that building. If they have this clause, they won't be able to.
Ramesvara: Also sometimes we have got one property in America, and you have allowed us to sell it. Just like in Miami we had to sell the property in Coconut Grove and we bought that big farm.
Prabhupada: No, with the consent of the GBC...
Gopala Krsna: Consent of the GBC.
Prabhupada: Like that.
Jayapataka: Properties in America can't be sold unless...
Ramesvara: We had a GBC meeting, and we made a system so that there are three GBC men assigned to every American property, and they can't even be mortgaged without the signature of these three men.
Prabhupada: And that declaration should be taken. That you are already taking.
Tamala Krsna: Yes, I am in the process of getting them all, oaths of allegiance.
Prabhupada: Hm. Oath of allegiance. That should be maintained.
Ramesvara: So we've already fixed it up for the American temples, with three GBC men assigned to each building, but it hasn't been mentioned in the will.
Prabhupada: No, why not?
Ramesvara: It should be. So we'll have to add a clause...
Prabhupada: Add it.
Ramesvara: ...to deal with the other properties.
Prabhupada: Add it.
Tamala Krsna: Add it right now, Prabhupada says. "Temples outside of India..." That's how it should be worded. "Centers" or "Temples outside of..."
Ramesvara: "Properties outside of India."
Tamala Krsna: "Properties outside of India may only be..." I think we can say, "in principle should not be..."
Prabhupada: There should be inventory of all the properties in this will.
Tamala Krsna: In this will there should be inventory of all properties.
Ramesvara: Now Jayatirtha is getting that, so we can have him send it.
Tamala Krsna: And then the trustees for each of those properties...
Prabhupada: Don't do..., make trustees.
Tamala Krsna: I mean the committee members of each property should be mentioned within this will.
Ramesvara: For all the properties outside the world, all over the world.
Prabhupada: Hm. In-charge. In-charge committee.
Ramesvara: In the world.
Tamala Krsna: Prabhupada wants this will to be, you know, a very complete document.
Ramesvara: And then, as the time goes by and we buy new properties, we will have to add them to the will.
Prabhupada: As far as possible, give protection.
Ramesvara: "Properties outside of India on principle should never be sold."
Tamala Krsna: So this will will take a little bit of time to get all those lists and everything together. In the meantime we have that other will.
Prabhupada: Hm?
Tamala Krsna: In the meantime we have that short, brief will. And this may take a little time to...
Ramesvara: Prabhupada said to write this now, so... "Properties outside of India in principle should never be sold."
Tamala Krsna: Yeah. "But if the need arises, they may be."
Giriraja: Do we have a list of these?
Tamala Krsna: "If the need arises...
Ramesvara: "They may be sold or mortgaged, etc...."
Tamala Krsna: "By the consent..."
Prabhupada: Hm. Sold or mortgaged, never.
Giriraja: Prabhupada doesn't want us to put in "can be sold or mortgaged..."
Tamala Krsna: What about mortgaged? Just like, as an example, that New York building. They'll... When they pay it off, that building...
Ramesvara: They can get a million-dollar loan.
Tamala Krsna: They can get a loan for a million dollars.
Ramesvara: And buy another building.
Tamala Krsna: Or so many buildings.
Giriraja: But then there's risk.
Prabhupada: Yes. That you consider.
Tamala Krsna: There's risk right now. There's a risk right now.
Ramesvara: The only time they should ever be sold is in some emergency? Why should...?
Prabhupada: With the consent of all the GBC.
Tamala Krsna: Yeah, the point is "with the consent of the GBC committee members."
Prabhupada: Better not to be sold.
Ramesvara: We have that. "In principle should never be sold, but if the need arises, they may be sold or mortgaged with the consent of the GBC."
Gopala Krsna: Committee members.
Prabhupada: Outside India.
Ramesvara: Yes, this is outside India.
Tamala Krsna: In India they can never be. It's irrevocable.
Ramesvara: "But if the need arises, they may be sold or mortgaged with the consent of the GBC committee members who are listed as follows."
Tamala Krsna: Then you can say, "The properties and their committee members are listed as follows."
Ramesvara: Right. "The GBC committee members."
Jayapataka: Not all of them. (background talking)
Giriraja: We can put the cities.
Tamala Krsna: Giriraja is suggesting that there's no need to list the address or in details.
Prabhupada: No.
Tamala Krsna: Just simply the city.
Ramesvara: We can do that right after we meet with Prabhupada.
Tamala Krsna: Yeah, we can do that.
Giriraja: So "...shall never be mortgaged, borrowed against, sold, transferred or in any way encumbered, disposed of or alienated."
Tamala Krsna: This is the Indian properties.
Prabhupada: Indian property is devayatana bhavana.
Tamala Krsna: Write that down, dev...
Prabhupada: Devayatana.(?)
Tamala Krsna: Devatra.
Prabhupada: Devayatana. Hm?
Jayapataka: Devayatana means trust. Devayatana means trust.
Prabhupada: All right, don't make if it cannot be so worded(?).
Giriraja: "This direction is irrevocable. 5. I declare, say and confirm that all the properties, both movable and immovable, which stand in my name, including current accounts, saving accounts and fixed deposits in various banks, are the properties and assets of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, and the heirs and successors of my previous family or anyone claiming through them have no right, claim or interest in these properties whatsoever save and except as provided hereinafter. Although the money which is in my personal name in every bank is being spent for ISKCON and it will belong to ISKCON, I have kept a few deposits specifically named for allocating a monthly allowance of Rs. 1,000 to the members of my former familytwo sons, two daughters, and wife. After the deaths of the members of my former family these specific deposits, or this interest and savings, will become the property of ISKCON for the purpose of the trust, and the descendants of my former family or anyone claiming to be them shall not be allowed any further allowance."
Tamala Krsna: It says that the deposits are "mentioned therein."
Giriraja: No.
Ramesvara: It just says that they are specifically named somewhere.
Giriraja: It's except for these, it's all the deposits of ISKCON. It says. We weren't sure about this, but since Mr. Sharma mentioned it, we put: "I hereby appoint..."and then we've kept some blank space"...to act as executors of this will. I have made this will this-blank-day of June, 1977, in possession of full sense and sound mind, without any persuasion, force or compulsion from anybody. Witnesses, 1., 2., 3."
Tamala Krsna: Dr. Ghosh should be one of the witnesses. According to Mr. Sharma, if a doctor witnesses, it's very good, attending physician.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Giriraja: So what should we do about the clause which appoints the executors?
Tamala Krsna: What does that mean? The people acting to see...
Giriraja: They're responsible to see that the will is carried out.
Ramesvara: They'll see that it's registered and it's brought before the...
Prabhupada: How many executors?
Giriraja: I think he suggested two or three.
Prabhupada: No, he suggested not less than three, up to seven or eleven.
Giriraja: Oh.
Ramesvara: Originally we told him that all the GBC are executors, and he said, "But out of them, just pick a few. It is a technical thing." 'Cause the GBC are already mentioned as the heirs or the managers of what you are giving.
Prabhupada: So I'll give you seven names.
Tamala Krsna: Our idea is to finish this will business as soon as possible.
Prabhupada: Yes, I'll give you tomorrow. I'll think over this.
Tamala Krsna: Okay. Any more, Giriraja?
Giriraja: That's all for the will.
Ramesvara: There's one other item that has been recommended by several persons, Prabhupada, and that is the will is only a legal document after the maker of the will has departed, so in the interim period, they have suggested an affidavit for any properties or, say, fixed deposits that are in your personal name, and this affidavit would simply state that the purpose of these fixed deposits and properties is for ISKCON. In that way the government will never be able to exact any taxes.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Tamala Krsna: Is there some wording there?
Ramesvara: Do you want me to read it?
Tamala Krsna: If Prabhupada likes.
Ramesvara: So we have prepared an affidavit. Shall we read it?
Prabhupada: Hm.
Ramesvara: "I, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, Founder-Acarya of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, disciple of Om Visnupada 108 Sri Srimad Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Gosvami Maharaja Prabhupada and settler of the Bhaktivedanta Book Trust, at present residing at the Krsna-Balarama Temple in Vrndavana, hereby solemnly declare, say and confirm as follows: 1. That I am the Founder-Acarya of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, known as ISKCON, a society registered under the Society Registration Act of 1860, with its headquarters at Juhu, Bombay, and branches at..." And then it's to be filled in. "2. That some properties with movable and immovable..." What is this word? "...have been donated to me by the devotees of the International Society of Krishna Consciousness or purchased or otherwise acquired by me in my name which still stand in my personal name; 3. That I hereby categorically declare and say that I am just a benamadara (benami) of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness..."
Prabhupada: What is benamadara?
Giriraja: It means... Just like in the Chand Society. Due to some reason we could not take in the beginning in the name of BBT, so we appointed someone to keep in his name, but actually it is not his. He is the only the benamadara on behalf of the society.
Prabhupada: Oh, benamadara.
Ramesvara: "...that I am the benamadara of the International Society for Krishna Consciousness in respect of the said properties, and I hold and do hold these same in trust as a trustee for the said society." No, we take out this phrase, "trust." "...that I hold the same for the said society."
Giriraja: No, "as the Founder-Acarya..."
Ramesvara: "...as the Founder-Acarya; 4. that I further declare, say and confirm that I have no personal claim or interest in these said properties or any..." It says, "position alone...," "...and the same solely belongs to the said society, the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, absolutely. That which is stated above is true to the best of my knowledge, information and belief. Witnessed..." The witnesses swear to that.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Ramesvara: So if this document is prepared, it does not have to be advertised, but if at any point there is some contention, we can show that this was...
Prabhupada: Made.
Ramesvara: ...made in June of 1977, that this is the...
Prabhupada: Registered.
Ramesvara: Registered. That that is the intention. Mr. Sharma said this will be sufficient to avoid any income tax or other tax on such holdings.
Prabhupada: That I want. That's all.
Tamala Krsna: Yeah. Because sometimes they've said, "Oh, it's in your Guru Maharaja's personal name," and you always said, "It's not my personal money." This will show that.
Prabhupada: Benamadara.
Tamala Krsna: Yes. 'Cause actually, whenever you told us to buy properties, we always wrote your name and then "Founder-Acarya of the International Society for..."
Prabhupada: That's all right. So do it. Manage nicely.
Jayapataka: We had a... Regarding the letter I had written, that ISKCON Food Relief has got some liability at Mayapura.
Prabhupada: No, that you discuss. Don't bother my head.
Jayapataka: No, we just... (Ramesvara whispering)
Ramesvara: Prabhupada, this afternoon we had a meeting of the BBT trustees, and we were discussing the situation of the Bengali printing. There are some manuscripts lying, and we want to print them as soon as possible so that selling can increase.
Prabhupada: So Gopala Krsna, give them money.
Gopala Krsna: I have already given seventy thousand rupees.
Ramesvara: The situation is that the seventy thousand rupees is already invested in Gitar Gans, and all the rest of the money Gopala has...
Jayapataka: Gitar Gans and Bhagavat Darshan and...
Prabhupada: So you are not selling?
Ramesvara: They are.
Prabhupada: Utilize that money. You have taken already seventy thousand. That's all.
Gopala Krsna: It was more than seventy thousand, I think.
Prabhupada: Unlimited, we cannot give you money.
Jayapataka: No, but if we could have fifty thousand more, then we could print the Bhagavad-gita and a few other covers at one time, which would increase the distribution.
Prabhupada: That you consult.
Ramesvara: We considered it carefully, and Jayapataka says that if you have more books available at one time, the people will simply buy four, five, six different books. So it will increase the selling and then collection. Therefore he is requesting a loan.
Prabhupada: Loan, that's all right. Whatever loan you have, let us see how you are paying.
Ramesvara: He is already paying the money back to an account that has been set up with him and Gopala in Calcutta.
Prabhupada: How much he has returned?
Ramesvara: How much have you paid back originally?
Jayapataka: Only one payment has come through. I paid the first thing.
Ramesvara: No, no, no, of the seventy thousand.
Jayapataka: No. Seventy thousand? We have no debt with BBT. We're paid up.
Ramesvara: How much have you paid so far?
Jayapataka: Since April I've paid twenty-one thousand.
Ramesvara: He's already paid twenty-one thousand rupees of it back.
Prabhupada: So you can take fifty thousand also. If they have returned twenty-one thousand, you can pay fifty thousand, loan more.
Gopala Krsna: We can pay fifty thousand...?
Ramesvara: He'll take a loan.
Prabhupada: Give and take, give and take, give and take.
Gopala Krsna: The thing is, I've given them seventy thousand...
Prabhupada: That's all right. They have returned twenty-one thousand.
Prabhupada: Then you can pay another fifty thousand. In this way transaction will go on.
Gopala Krsna: At the present moment BBT can't give them so much money.
Prabhupada: So give them something. Twenty-one thousand give them, thirty thousand. Then again... If they are returning, you give them. Give and take, give and take.
Gopala Krsna: But that returning which we are doing, we are putting in a separate Bengali...
Prabhupada: Whatever it may be, it is returning.
Ramesvara: Our idea is that from all the money that is collected, we will reinvest in Bengali books.
Prabhupada: That's all right.
Ramesvara: So in addition, he wanted to borrow from your own BBT, because Gopala says that all his money is tied up for printing in English and Hindi and the other languages.
Gopala Krsna: At least for six months.
Ramesvara: So that is his request.
Prabhupada: That he can get in September.
Jayapataka: What?
Tamala Krsna: (laughs) Prabhupada said, "In September."
Ramesvara: Srila Prabhupada, I just received a telegram from America about the book selling. It is from our main warehouse in Los Angeles. They report that there has been increase this month over last month. For Back to Godhead the increase has been seventy percent.
Prabhupada: Hm!
Ramesvara: For small books like Perfection of Yoga, it has increased forty-five percent. For medium books like Krsna Trilogy and Isopanisad, it has increased forty-five percent, and for the hardbound books like Bhagavad-gita and Srimad-Bhagavatam, it has doubled, two hundred percent increase.
Jayapataka: In one month.
Prabhupada: This is very good.
Giriraja: No, that means tripled.
Ramesvara: Two hundred percent increase.
Giriraja: One hundred percent increase is doubled, so two hundred percent...
Tamala Krsna: Tripled. Tripled, the book distribution.
Gopala Krsna: Big books.
Prabhupada: Very good.
Tamala Krsna: Simply by your word, Srila Prabhupada, it is happening.
Ramesvara: Everyone is now wearing these "Double It" buttons. The whole movement is simply thinking of doubling book distribution, doubling it.
Prabhupada: Yes, that is our real mission. Yare dekha tare kaha 'krsna'-upadesa [Cc. Madhya 7.128]. That's all. This is the opportunity of speaking the words given by Krsna. Krsna Dvaipayana or Krsna are the same. So that's all right. No more talking.
Devotees: Jaya Srila Prabhupada!
Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. Jaya. [break]
Radha-vallabha: I'm planning to take it away from him, but I can't find him. I think by the time I return to America...
Prabhupada: It is very convincing.
Prabhupada: "You may pay me six hundred dollars for fifty (indistinct)."
Radha-vallabha: I've been trying to find him. As soon as I find him, I'll bring you the book from him.
Prabhupada: Still paying him money?
Radha-vallabha: No, no, I stopped when you told me in Mayapura.
Prabhupada: Cheats his wife and children, this crooked man, cheating people. Tendency is there. Where he is?
Prabhupada: Where he is now? (end)

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