Room Conversation

September 5, 1976, Vrndavana
Prabhupada: ...Sannyasi should go on preaching, preaching, preaching, preaching. Practically, I was sitting here in Vrndavana, in Radha-Damodara temple. So at the age of seventy years, nobody goes out. At least from Vrndavana nobody goes at the age of seventy years. But Krsna asked me. I thought that I must go, Guru Maharaja wanted it, Caitanya Mahaprabhu... Let me try. So if I had not gone then this institution would not have developed. So this is practical. Mahatah nirvicaranam.(?) Mahatma, they must move. So when there is absolute necessity they may stay. Otherwise, they must move. Move on, move on, move on, move on, move on. No staying. That is principle. No staying. I am this old age, I cannot move... My... I... So many... Still I am traveling all over the world. I am simply interested that whatever I have done, it may not be vanquished in my absence. Let me go and encourage them. Otherwise, I have no capacity to move now. But still I am moving. Only for this purpose. Girinam grhna-cetasam.(?) So a sannyasi must move. A sannyasi must not stay anywhere more than three days. That is the principle. So he was moving, but his moving is creating disturbances here. Therefore I have stopped. And besides that, a temple is nirguna. A sannyasi is forbidden to stay anywhere else, but in a temple he can stay for more than three days provided there is business. Otherwise, there is no necessity. So this is the exclusion(?).
Gopala Krsna: That solves all the problems.
Prabhupada: No, solves or not solves, we shall see later on. But this is the principle. This is the principle. Solution, if we do not become very simple servant of Krsna, problems will increase. It will never be solved. If you have got any other desire than to serve Krsna, then the problems will increase. It will never decrease. Therefore bhakti begins, anyabhilasita-sunyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. No other purpose than to serve Krsna. This is only purpose. Anukulyena krsnanusilanam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. So our only business is how to satisfy Krsna. Krsna in His original status as Krsna, and in His other status as Caitanya Mahaprabhu, and in both ways, He's insisting to preach. That is a very important business. Neither Caitanya Mahaprabhu nor Krsna has recommended that you become a great devotee and sit down in a place and talk big, big words and simply eat and sleep. Krsna has never said. That is not Krsna's neither Caitanya Mahaprabhu's business. That is not required. Boro boro bado bado phet lanka mata kore het.(?) "Big, big monkey, big, big belly, Ceylon jumping, melancholy." There are very many big, big bellies in Vrndavana, but if they're asked to preach Caitanya Mahaprabhu's mission all over the worldmelancholy. Melancholy. Big, big monkey, big, big belly. So you have taken a very great mission that world preaching, that is very, very nice decision. So you have got buses and you have got capacity. You do this. And one in Germany, one in India, come and go, come and go. What do you think?
Hamsaduta: Yes. Then I want to do that, but there are some problems which I'm experiencing.
Prabhupada: What is that?
Hamsaduta: Well, for instance, Gopala Krsna has the habit of deporting my men to different centers, even against their will.
Gopala Krsna: I don't have that habit.
Hamsaduta: Then the men... I explained the other night...
Prabhupada: Let him explain, don't...
Hamsaduta: When we come to a center, naturally there are certain men who want to go traveling. Not all men want to go traveling, but there are definitely some who want to go traveling. And if they come to me, what should I do? Tell them, "No, I'm sorry"?
Prabhupada: No, no, traveling, if somebody wants to travel, what he is, first of all you must know. A brahmacari, a sannyasi, they are meant for preaching. Not grhasthas.
Hamsaduta: No, not grhasthas. I'm not taking any grhasthas.
Prabhupada: So if a brahmacari, grhastha, yes, if he wants to travel, so there is no objection.
Hamsaduta: But what is happening is that for instance, someone will join me, then Gopala will catch up with him and send the man to Delhi or to Hyderabad. The man will run away and come back again, and again he will be forced to go away. This is what I object to.
Gopala Krsna: No, this is wrong. I'll tell you what the facts are. In every temple there are certain key positions for some devotee. In no temple we are trying to keep more than necessary. Sometimes they come and he preaches to them and he gives them money. If he is the temple president... Like in Bombay Hamsaduta came, he had a fight with Giriraja. Giriraja was ready to write such a strong letter to you. He gave money to few devotees...
Prabhupada: The temple establishment, that has to be maintained.
Hamsaduta: That I understand. Prabhupada, I understand that.
Prabhupada: So why, why the...? Besides that, if you want to take someone or if anyone is willing to go with you, the president of the local temple, he should be requested. Or the man who wants to go, that "I want to go with him." So if the president thinks that he can be spared, then he can go. But if he thinks that his presence is necessary, why he should go?
Gopala Krsna: This is one of the GBC resolutions. No devotee can go without the temple president's permission.
Hamsaduta: I understand...
Prabhupada: I cannot hear two. Let him... When I ask him...
Hamsaduta: In this particular instance, and practically always, I do that. But Giriraja was so unreasonable about the matter that the boy actually ran away.
Prabhupada: No, no, that, that, there are so many people... If you do not satisfy his senses, everyone is free to run away. That you cannot check. You cannot say, accuse somebody or somebody. Because here everyone is giving voluntary service. Nobody is servant. So if he doesn't like something, at any moment he can go away. At any moment. Just like yesterday the Sastri came. So he went away. And somebody, they are coming, going. You cannot check them. Because they are not our paid servants. If they are very kind that they have come here, cooperating with us. But still there is some decency, if one is engaged in some work, all of a sudden he should go away, all of a sudden... That is not very good. That is not very good. Decently, that I used to go, and now in preaching work, so there will be no difficulty, this is the arrangement. Something must be done. All of a sudden, if somebody goes, that isn't very good. Tamala also, if he did so, that is not good. Because I want some men, I cannot kidnap from any place. That is not good. We must see that the management is going on. The management may not suffer. But the president should allow to go if there is extra men.
Hamsaduta: Yes, another point in this connection, Prabhupada, the men who come with me, they don't stay with me forever. They will stay a few months some of them, and then they go. In this way...
Prabhupada: Then that is the habit...
Hamsaduta: For instance, in this temple, there are so many men which are on our party who are...
Prabhupada: So many men. We don't want so many men. Now we are going to minimize. We don't want so many men. That if, now we have to estimate how many men absolutely required. So many men we shall keep. Others, they must go for the preaching. They must go to the preaching.
Gopala Krsna: They can all go on the buses, the extra men.
Prabhupada: No, they should be distributed. They may go to other centers.
Gopala Krsna: Hyderabad needs men.
Prabhupada: Here, unnecessarily increasing men and increasing expenditure, twenty thousand, twenty-five thousand, thirty thousand. Why? Unnecessary. Only minimum men should be kept who are actually useful. There is no need of keeping extra men. What is that?
Harikesa: When you originally were speaking about Vrndavana, you mentioned that Vrndavana would be a place for those people who have become a little disturbed in Krsna consciousness, or burned out, we call it, from so much activity, that he comes here and gets rejuvenated. Is that still...
Prabhupada: That is a fact, but provided he is devotee. If he's not a devotee then he will go away, here and there, here and there. That is the habit. And a devotee is satisfied anywhere. A devotee is not that "I'll go to Vrndavana, then I'll be satisfied." Narayana-parah sarve na kutascana bibhyati [SB 6.17.28]. I did not go to your country taking Vrndavana with me. I had to stay in places where in the refrigerator there is meat. And I was cooking. When opened it I saw, "Here is meat. All right, what can be done? Hare Krsna." That's all.
Aksayananda: But actually you did take Vrndavana with you.
Prabhupada: So if I would have stuck to Vrndavana, "No, no, I cannot go anywhere, leaving Vrndavana." No, we can go to hell if there is Krsna's service.
Harikesa: So is there some time that maybe somebody could stay here when he comes in that frame of consciousness?
Prabhupada: No, no, it is... Not that. It should be now restricted. Not that anyone comes and whimsically goes away. This should be restricted.
Gopala Krsna: These devotees just create a disturbance, Srila Prabhupada. They don't want to be engaged and everybody copies them and the whole atmosphere gets...
Prabhupada: No, no.
Aksayananda: A lot of devotees think... They come here... Therefore work is not necessary. Simply chanting and being in Vrndavana is nice. That's wrong.
Prabhupada: No, no. Chanting, but there is expenditure. Who will collect this twenty-five thousand? It is increasing. I can maintain them provided they are actually serious about making progress in Krsna consciousness. Not that some lazy fellow will come, and because he has come to Vrndavana, Krsna-candra has become very much obliged to him. Krsna-candra had no other friend. He has come from somebody. That mentality should be curtailed.
Harikesa: What if he comes with money to pay for himself.
Prabhupada: Is there a guest house? Stay. There is no harm. There is guest house, he can pay and stay. But here we shall keep only minimum number of men without whom we cannot make, manage it. That's all.
Gopala Krsna: Very good.
Prabhupada: Otherwise, how it is possible? Who will bring twenty-five thousand per month? I'm surprised. Twenty-five... (Hindi)
Aksayananda: It's much more. Sometimes thirty.
Prabhupada: So this must be stopped immediately. We cannot pay more than five thousand. You stop. We cannot pay. (Hindi) My Guru Maharaja used to say, (Bengali) "Joint mess." This is not possible. That we have to maintain a big bundle of burden. What is this?
Aksayananda: But still, we have to welcome anyone who comes.
Prabhupada: Twenty-five thousand, thirty-thousand per month? What is this? Where is that temple in Vrndavana who is spending twenty-five thousand, thirty thousand? Can you say any temple?
Indian man: Not more than five thousand.
Prabhupada: That's it. So we cannot pay more than five thousand.
Aksayananda: For eating?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Aksayananda: Then clothing is more? Clothing is more? Maintenance?
Prabhupada: No, everything. Hundred rupees per head. You do not require to collect. I shall pay five thousand.
Harikesa: There should be a budget here.
Prabhupada: Budget is there. Hundred rupees per head. Fifty men if you keep, it is five thousand.
Gopala Krsna: We can keep less. We don't want fifty.
Prabhupada: That's all right. It will be less. But I'm prepared to pay you five thousand rupees for fifty men. Not more than that. That I can pay. You do not require to collect. You sit down. But work hard here. Not that eating, sleeping. No. That cannot be. That cannot be done. They must be engaged twenty-four hours. That is wanted. It is not a lazy free hotel. Anyone lives, he must be engaged twenty-four hours. Kirtaniyah sada harih [Cc. Adi 17.31]. If he has no work, chant Hare Krsna here. That should be done.
Aksayananda: Srila Prabhupada? We have this twenty-four kirtana. I've requested everyone who comes to do at least one hour per day.
Prabhupada: There is no question. This is the condition. If you agree, then stay here. Otherwise, you go to Radha-kunda.
Aksayananda: Also visiting devotees should do that too. Anyone who comes here should do that.
Gopala Krsna: Everyone.
Prabhupada: You must make a rule.
Aksayananda: At least one hour in the temple.
Prabhupada: Why one hour? Four hours. Four hours. Four times. Morning, evening, night, morning again.
Aksayananda: Already, the rule is made...
Prabhupada: No, no, already rules we are... Just like to continue kirtana there must be four batches.
Aksayananda: Yes, four men I have...
Prabhupada: Four batches. That means six hours, four. Three hours. Three hours. Not four hours. So one batch four hours. From morning six to nine. Another batch from nine to twelve. Another batch twelve to three. Another batch three to six. Again the morning batch six to...
Aksayananda: Eight different batches, that makes a total of thirty-two.
Prabhupada: That's all. Not, why thirty-two? Twice one batch. One batch attending once in the morning, once in the evening.
Indian man: Sixteen. (Hindi)
Prabhupada: So then if there is fifty men, we cannot spare sixteen men?
Aksayananda: Very nice.
Prabhupada: Everything is nice. Only to be managed. Only to be managed. So I am prepared, I'll pay you. Even if you have no money I'll pay you five thousand rupees. Keep fifty men.
Aksayananda: I don't think it's necessary for you to pay.
Prabhupada: So if necessary, I'm prepared. That's all right.
Aksayananda: No, it's not necessary.
Prabhupada: Then thank you. That is another thing. But fifty men you can keep. Fifty men you can keep. And there is collection in the box. There is collection by prasada, so many other things.
Indian man: And the altars.
Prabhupada: That should be engaged fully in Deity worship. Not extravagant. That I shall see. I shall remain here. How things are going on. I shall manage myself. I shall see how things are going on. So anyway, fifty men, five thousand. No more twenty-five thousand. Forget. No more twenty-five.
Harikesa: That's three rupees a day.
Prabhupada: What is that?
Hamsaduta: If it's three rupees, thirty paisa a day for eating, soap, and toothpaste...
Prabhupada: No soap. Take this Radha-kunda's... Why soap? You are so devotee of Radha-kunda, why you require soap? This is nonsense. You take earth from the Radha-kunda or Vrndavana. Vrndavana-dhuli. Why you require soap? (Hindi conversation to the effect that if one has the dust of Vrndavana or Radha-kunda, there is no necessity for soap) Nim datun? I was doing nim datun(?) until the teeth fell down. You will know that I was collecting nim. But now it is impossible. That also I have manufactured my own toothpaste. I purchase only the brush and I made my toothpaste at home. I never used any toothpaste. Even in my young days. I never used. You have seen it practically. Not only that now I have become sannyasi. When I was grhastha I never used. When I was grhastha I was using that nim datun(?) regularly. And I can give you the paste. So if you cannot use nim datun, you can use this paste. Very simple. (Hindi conversation for some time)
Aksayananda: One problem is that the devotees who are not serious, we say they cannot stay here. Yet, because they are still attracted to Vrndavana, many times they go and find a place outside the temple in Vrndavana and they make a bad example. This problem we cannot solve. Or they go to Radha-kunda and live. We say, "You cannot stay here because you won't help in some way." Therefore they...
Prabhupada: No, cannot stay... You can allow three days free. You can receive guest for three days. Not permanently. And they can... That is very reasonable. If they have come, spending so much to Vrndavana, they cannot pay?
Gopala Krsna: They usually have money. Everyone who comes from America, Europe, has some money.
Prabhupada: Then? What is the difficulty? What is the difficulty if they have got money?
Indian man: See the shop here. See all the shop whether they have got money or not. You have opened a canteen here and you can note from there who has got money.
Prabhupada: No, money they have got. There is no doubt. They are not coming from poor country, either poor. No, we are welcoming provided he is reasonable. Simply to exploit, that is not good. That is not good. What do you think? In our Indian system, if somebody goes to a sadhu's asrama, especially grhastha, immediately he pays fifty rupees, hundred rupees. He'll not stay more than three days, four days. But he knows "The sadhu, wherefrom he'll bring money? Take." They are paying without staying. Just like yesterday this man came, and you have seen so many people come. In your country also it is done. That is up to the man's conscience. That I have come here, so I require to stay. Pay something. But not that... That should be properly expended. So anything can be done very nicely provided there is good management. I do not see any difficulty. I am present here. If there is any difficulty, ask me. I shall advise. (Hindi) Per head hundred rupees is sufficient. Not more than that. Even, how many devotees are here now?
Aksayananda: We have sixty. About sixty. There are, many women are there. Normally there has been about...
Prabhupada: Up to fifty I take charge. I shall pay hundred rupees per head.
Gopala Krsna: We don't need more than fifty, Srila Prabhupada, because Hyderabad needs devotees.
Prabhupada: If there are more they can go to other centers.
Gopala Krsna: Now we have the farm in Hyderabad. Mahamsa's asking for men for the farm, for the temple. They can give...
Prabhupada: Yes, we have got the biggest farm.
Gopala Krsna: Six hundred acre farm.
Prabhupada: As we have organized New Vrindaban farm, and Philadelphia farm, so the farm was also to be organized by you. That was the contemplation. So six hundred acres of land. Very nice land. Very nice land. Six hundreds and it is not with (indistinct) like Vrndavana, but very fertile.
Harikesa: It can produce enough food to feed the whole society.
Indian man: Irrigation system?
Harikesa: Do you want me to take care of?
Gopala Krsna: That would be best.
Prabhupada: Why not?
Harikesa: The thing is, the money that I had put aside for that farm I gave to Mahamsa, so he should give it back.
Prabhupada: You should be very much encouraged.
Hamsaduta: No, the money that I put aside to start that farm, to buy some irrigation equipment and so forth-initial investmentI gave it to Mahamsa on your order one lakh of rupees. I gave him one lakh.
Gopala Krsna: This is for construction, and he's going to take it back.
Prabhupada: No, that is for construction. That is not for the farm.
Harikesa: No, no, that money, I intended to use for the farm. But it took so long to get that farm. So when we gave it to...
Prabhupada: No, that can be... That I guaranteed. That I guaranteed one lakh, that if he does not pay, I shall do it. That guarantee still.
Hamsaduta: Should I develop that scheme then?
Prabhupada: Yes, let us have the farm first of all. I do not know what is the position now.
Gopala Krsna: It's coming soon, Mahamsa said. So he can develop the farm.
Prabhupada: So your main business should be mahad-vicalanam. Calanam vicalanam.(?)
Hamsaduta: It's just that in this one particular problem it would be better, that's all. He has already sent them away. He has already sent a number of men away.
Gopala Krsna: Who? And they are all the temple devotees. What I'm saying is don't rob men from these temples have to be supported. They're taking away men from the temples and the temples...
Hamsaduta: I don't want to make a fuss, but right now there are six or seven first-class men who are working in your temple who are on this party.
Gopala Krsna: Take them all, but still the temple will go on.
Prabhupada: He can take them.
Gopala Krsna: Take them out.
Hamsaduta: That's what I'm afraid, that he's going to...
Prabhupada: No, no, no. Your men you take.
Gopala Krsna: I am only requesting you to return the temple devotees which you have stolen. That's all. I don't want one man from this party. We will manage it. Just return the temple devotees.
Hamsaduta: (talking back and forth to Gopala Krsna-indistinct)
Prabhupada: Yesterday I told him that temple painting is going on... Who is painting? I never saw. (Hindi conversation)
Aksayananda: So we should have one kitchen only. One kitchen? As we had discussed last night. Now we have a Deity kitchen and a devotee kitchen. We also have a guest house kitchen.
Prabhupada: Why three?
Aksayananda: So the devotee kitchen and Deity kitchen could be made into one.
Gopala Krsna: That's decided.
Aksayananda: Yes. So I'll give you a list of the preparations we'll offer for your approval. It means we'll be offering less to the Deity.
Prabhupada: What is difficulty? (Hindi conversation) How many Deities are there? Guru-Gauranga four, Krsna-Balarama two, six, and...
Aksayananda: Krsna, Radha, and the gopis.
Prabhupada: Ten. So...
Aksayananda: Small Deity of Gaura-Nitai. (Hindi conversation)
Prabhupada: What is your idea? [break]
Gopala Krsna: The CID is going to our life members and harassing them. They are scared of becoming our members now. Even in Chandigargh, Caitya-guru told me your books were on display in one life member's stores, he has two stores. And CID went to him and said, "Why are you displaying these books? What's your connection? Why're you helping Hare Krsna?"
Prabhupada: So selling books is illegal?
Gopala Krsna: No, but they are just suspecting, they're so suspicious.
Prabhupada: What is that suspicious? We have got books. We are selling.
Gopala Krsna: Yes. They, you know, because (indistinct). (Hindi)
Aksayananda: They just harass us. They don't do any action. They just keep bothering us.
Indian: Two CID inspectors came to my house. And they said they have got so many things in their basements. So I told, you have come without informing me, and I was not informed them. So please come to me one day and decide what is (indistinct). You come with me. I took and I showed...
Prabhupada: Kya bola? (What did you say?)
Indian man: Sir, I showed everything. (Hindi) You want to help me to go to materialism? They are not CID's, they're not even anything. They are simply devotees. They have come from foreign country and they are...
Gopala Krsna: No, the living is simple, then they they will see, yes, (indistinct).
Prabhupada: And where is the car you have purchased?
Aksayananda: It's in Indore now.
Prabhupada: Where it is?
Aksayananda: Madhya Pradesh. I put one brahmacari in charge of it.
Prabhupada: They are using.
Aksayananda: Yes, very well.
Gopala Krsna: They're preaching.
Aksayananda: Very good boys looking after.
Indian man: (Hindi)
Aksayananda: It's a very good car, Prabhupada.
Gopala Krsna: Thank you very much, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: (Hindi) Visa department, ten dollars.
Gopala Krsna: In Canada you had problem. I remember when you came to Montreal in '68.
Prabhupada: Oh, you did not know. Canada I had very little problem. U.S., it was always problem. Rather Canada helped me. Canada, I immediately got immigration in Canada. Then I got some standing. That never mind, I have got now immigration in Canada. It will be easier from Canada to go to U.S.A. Then again I tried for U.S.A. And [in Canada] it was obtained within three months and spending only within hundred dollars. And there, in America, they were spending each time $150. The lawyer was taking. He was phoning, "Will you please send $150 for this expense." And how many times he has taken I do not know. They were paying. Rayarama was at that time chief man. He immediately... This was going on. Then when I came to Canada... First of all, I made my position secure, that "Let me have Canadian immigration." So Canadian immigration I got very soon. I think within two months. Then I applied for U.S.A. immigration. So U.S. immigration I got within three months. And I paid I think within hundred dollars. So... You know. When I came to Montreal?
Harikesa: Very easy...
Gopala Krsna: Yes. You went for the interview with the U.S. Consulate in Montreal before you got your green card for America.
Prabhupada: No, no. In Montreal went...
Gopala Krsna: Yes, you came from Vancouver... From Seattle.
Harikesa: You came from Vancouver. With one gentleman.
Gopala Krsna: With Shasti-mai(?).
Prabhupada: Yes. So there was hard struggle. It is not that so easy for... In 1965 to '66, 66-67, regular hard struggle.
Hamsaduta: Yes, I know that's a crisis.
Prabhupada: You know that. Hard struggle. So Krsna gave us some facility. Now we have got some framework. Do it very cautiously. Unnecessarily exhausting what we... sato vrtteh sadhu-sange. That is Rupa Gosvami's line. We should be very honest and live with sadhu, those who are devotees. Tandera carana-sebi-bhakta-sane bas. First of all our mission should be how to serve the Gosvamis.
ei chay gosai yar mui taro das
tan-sabara pada-renu mora panca-gras
You cannot act independently. Caitanya Mahaprabhu...
[When will Srila Rupa Gosvami Prabhupada, who has established within this material world the mission to fulfill the desire of Lord Caitanya, give me shelter under his lotus feet?]
That should be our prayer. When Rupa Gosvami, who has established the mission of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, when I shall get shelter of his lotus feet. And that is... Narottama dasa Thakura prays, tandera carana-sebi. Tandera means the six Gosvamis. Ei chay gosai yanr tanr mui das. I'm servant of that person who is engaged in the service of the six Gosvamis. And we pray to our Guru Maharaja, rupanuga-viruddhapasiddhanta-dhvanta-harine. Anyone who is going against the decision of Rupa Gosvami, reject him. Rupanuga-viruddhapasiddhanta-dhvanta. This is our process. Ei chay gosai yanr.
rupa-raghunatha-pade hoibe akuti
kabe hama bujhabo se jugala-piriti
Who will understand Radha-Krsna's loving affairs unless one has gone really through the instruction of Rupa Gosvami. Radha-Krsna loving affairs is not so easy. Radha-kunda is not so easy that by force I go to Radha-kunda and become a candidate.
rupa-raghunatha-pade hoibe akuti
kabe hama bujhabo se jugala-piriti
Narottama dasa Thakura is hankering, "When I shall understand about Radha-kunda, Radha-Krsna's prema? Such liberated great devotees, acaryas, they are hankering. Rupa-raghunatha-pade hoibe akuti, kabe hama bujhabo. When I shall understand? And they have understood immediately everything. (Hindi) That is solved. Not so easy. Caitanya Mahaprabhu has given us the facility.
That is the special verse. It is not very easy thing. Bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan mam prapadyate [Bg. 7.19]. Don't take things very easily. Things are very serious. Therefore we have to go step by step. That is, Narottama dasa Thakura said, tandera sange. Aim should be how to serve Rupa-Raghunatha. And bhakta-sane bas, to stay with pure devotee who has no other intention. Anyabhilasita-sunyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. This is the process. So do it carefully. That's all.
Devotees: Jaya, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. [break] In the morning we shall go to take my milk from the goat. I'll go early so that I may take the first. And come back, then take my bath early in the morning. I did not take hot water. Cold water. Even in severe winter. Then?
Harikesa: And one boy called Radha-Damodara dasa from New... (end)

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