Morning Walk – March 18, 1976, Māyāpur

In Mahabharata there are 100,000 verses

Hamsaduta: ...yeah. That's auspicious?

Prabhupada: Eh?

Hamsaduta: That's auspicious?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Pusta Krsna: [aside:] Gaura-Nitai!

Gurudasa: Gaura-Nitai. [break]

Prabhupada: ...moon is going around the earth.

Gurudasa: [aside:] Three.

Prabhupada: So why the moon is..., particularly rises from the eastern side? The moon, according to the...

Pusta Krsna: Scientists.

Prabhupada: The moon is going round like this. So why the moon is rising from the eastern side? It is going around. Why it appears from the eastern side?

Devotee: They say because the earth is spinning on an axis.

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Pancadravida: 'Cause the earth is turning.

Pusta Krsna: That's a very good question. [laughter]

Gurudasa: What's the answer, Srila Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: So you answer. He has understood.

Pusta Krsna: According to Bhagavatam, the moon is not going around the earth. It is revolving around Mount Sumeru. Isn't it?

Prabhupada: Yes. According Bhagavata, that is a different thing. But this...

Pusta Krsna: But why the moon should simply follow that same pattern...

Prabhupada: Yes.

Pusta Krsna: ...going east to west, east to west? Why not...?

Bhavananda: Random.

Pusta Krsna: At random. Sometimes rising from the south.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Pusta Krsna: Sometimes, perhaps, from the north.

Hamsaduta: Well, they say it has a fixed orbit around the earth.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Hamsaduta: It has a fixed orbit around the earth.

Tamala Krsna: Who fixed the orbit?

Jayatirtha: Krsna.

Tamala Krsna: Chance.

Pusta Krsna: "Chance." Wonderful question.

Prabhupada: And the sun is also rising from the east. But sun is fixed up, and moon is moving. So why they are coming from the same side?

Pusta Krsna: Wonderful questions. These are wonderful things.

Hari-sauri: Well, they say that the moon..., the moon is actually moving around the earth.

Prabhupada: That's all right.

Hari-sauri: And the earth is rotating, and the sun is..., only appears to move around the earth.

Prabhupada: Is that question answered?

Pancadravida: Well, they both appear that way because of the turning of the earth.

Prabhupada: The sun is fixed up.

Pancadravida: But the earth is turning.

Prabhupada: Earth is turning, and moon is turning. But why the sun and moon rises from the same side?

Pancadravida: 'Cause the earth turns in that direction.

Prabhupada: Just talk if it is proper answer.

Pusta Krsna: Why doesn't the moon sometimes rise in the south? Or the north?

Pancadravida: Because the sun... Because the earth is not turning in the opposite direction.

Prabhupada: What he is doing on the roof?

Tamala Krsna: Oh, no.

Hari-sauri: He's taking photographs.

Tamala Krsna: Oh, no. This boy joined us... [break]

Gurudasa: ...rather than the chaos.

Pancadravida: What is the Vedic explanation, Srila Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: Vedic explanation is that moon is not going round the earthly planet. [break]

Pusta Krsna: This is very revolutionary thought.

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Pusta Krsna: Because children all over the world, in schools, they're taught simply that the moon is going around the earth. They shouldn't question it.

Prabhupada: Oh, they say, "You should not question"?

Pusta Krsna: No, should not question it. It's taken as fact.

Prabhupada: My point is: If the moon is going round the earth, beginning from here to there, similarly, the sun is also going around earth, because we see the similar way, it is rising and going that way. So how you can say one is fixed, one is standing? The process, we find the same. How you can say that this is fixed and this is going around? Why is...? If the process is the same, then the result will be the same. [break]

Hari-sauri: ...accepted the sun was moving, then they wouldn't be able to prove that...

Prabhupada: And the... And the moon is not seen also for fifteen days in the month[?]. As a layman, we should say that as the moon is rising from this side and going to this side, the sun is also rising from this side. So if the moon is moving, the sun is moving.

Pancadravida: If that's true, then how does... What about the changes in the moon's face? Sometimes...

Prabhupada: True or nontrue, I am layman. I am saying that if the moon is rising from this side and going to this side, so sun is also rising from this side and going to this side. So if the moon is moving, the sun is moving.

Tamala Krsna: Common sense.

Prabhupada: Huh? Yes, I am a layman. Actually sun is moving, but they say fixed up. [break]

Pancadravida: ...moving the same, though, the sun..., the moon would always appear full, and it goes through changes, or phases.

Prabhupada: Yes. Why it, the moon, is...? [break]

Jayapataka: They say that everything is moving. Both the earth is moving, sun is moving and the moon is moving, but everything has got its own time. Moon is moving once around in twenty-eight days, and our earth is moving around in 365 days, and sun is also moving in its own time.

Prabhupada: But they say sun, fixed up.

Jayapataka: No, they don't say fixed up.

Pancadravida: They say there's a point called the galactic center of the universe, and everything is moving around that point.

Trivikrama: They say like that.

Prabhupada: So what is that center?

Jayapataka: That they can't find out.

Balavanta: Somewhere near the sun. They've just imagined it. It's close to the sun, but not exactly the sun. It's the center, they say.

Prabhupada: So our Bhagavata says the whole planetary system is moving like this...

Pusta Krsna: Yes.

Prabhupada: ...centering the polestar.

Jayapataka: They admit that there's some center of the universe. Everything is going around that, including the sun. But they don't know exactly where it is.

Prabhupada: That is polestar.

Pusta Krsna: No, that's admitted, that the polestar, the stars are revolving around, everything. They take photographs.

Pancadravida: What?

Pusta Krsna: Of the... Everything revolving around the polestar, the constellations.

Gurudasa: Are the moon's phases due to the planet Rahu, Srila Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Gurudasa: Are the moon's phases due to the planet Rahu?

Prabhupada: Space?

Pusta Krsna: The phases of the moon-quarter moon, half moon, full moon.

Gurudasa: Waxing and the waning of the moon.

Prabhupada: No.

Pancadravida: What's it due to, then?

Prabhupada: That I should not exactly immediately say.

Gurudasa: We don't accept.

Pusta Krsna: No. Prabhupada just said, "Not right now."

Prabhupada: But moon is far away from the sun. That is from Bhagavatam.

Devotee: They say just the opposite.

Tamala Krsna: Further away. Prabhupada, there's another question I have. I remember on a walk... I have read in your books that the moon's glowing is due to reflecting the sun. Then I remember on a walk in Vrndavana you said that the moon is fiery just like the sun, but there's a cooling atmosphere around it. So is it actually fiery glow, or is it simply a reflecting glow?

Prabhupada: That is stated in Bhagavatam.

Gurudasa: It says reflection in the Bhagavata.

Prabhupada: No, it is also a fiery place. But it is because it is far away from the sun, it is not so glowing.

Tamala Krsna: So it's not a question of reflection only.

Prabhupada: The reflection theory is the modern theory.

Tamala Krsna: Because sometimes in the books it's stated...

Prabhupada: Yes. Sometimes I have said or taken this modern theory.

Tamala Krsna: Just so that people will understand an example. I see.

Pusta Krsna: Another question is, "How do the different seasons come about-winter, summer, spring?"

Prabhupada: That is due to the movement of the sun.

Pusta Krsna: The...?

Prabhupada: Movement of the sun.

Pusta Krsna: Movement of the sun.

Prabhupada: But they say sun is fixed up.

Pusta Krsna: Yes, they say the earth is tilting back and forth like this.

Prabhupada: That is always doing, but it takes little time. But the movement of the sun, uttarayana [northern hemisphere] and daksinayana [southern hemisphere], what is their explanation?

Pusta Krsna: They say that the earth is tilting like this. The sun is fixed. When the earth tilts like this in the northern hemisphere there is summer, and when it tilts like this, the southern hemisphere, there's summer. It's tilting back and forth as it revolves around the sun.

Prabhupada: Tilting?

Pusta Krsna: Yes.

Prabhupada: But they say it is...

Pancadravida: Well, they say the earth is on a tilted axis.

Trivikrama: Twenty-three degrees from the north pole.

Pancadravida: So, as it revolves around the sun...

Pusta Krsna: That's another theory too.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Pusta Krsna: There's two different theories.

Hamsaduta: It's simultaneously going around the sun, and also, in itself, it is turning. And then it's sometimes tilting on a particular axis. It's simultaneously moving around the so-called central sun...

Prabhupada: But for six months that, it tilts?

Hamsaduta: And then it also spins-the globe spins-and then it also...

Prabhupada: Eh?

Hamsaduta: It has different tilts. It takes different degrees.

Tamala Krsna: The tilt is always the same.

Hamsaduta: And when the sun's rays hit the earth at a particular angle, it becomes cooler or hotter. This is their sum and substance.

Tamala Krsna: While it's spinning, it's not just spinning straight up and down; it's on an axis. So it's spinning like this.

Lokanatha: Yes. It's going around like a ball.

Tamala Krsna: Not like this. Like this.

Pancadravida: It's on an angle.

Hamsaduta: Yeah. And then it is tilting.

Pusta Krsna: But how does that explain summer and winter?

Tamala Krsna: Because it's close to the sun in...

Pancadravida: Because it's close to the sun and... No, it's not closer.

Pusta Krsna: It spins. Every twenty-four hours it's turning. Why should that matter?

Pancadravida: No, but the orbit around the sun is...

Pusta Krsna: Elliptical.

Pancadravida: Yes. Elliptical.

Hamsaduta: Yeah, for instance, in Sweden, they have a certain part of the year when it is always dark. So they say this is because the earth's axis has shifted, so that... Yeah.

Prabhupada: So your work is going to begin today? No?

Tamala Krsna: Jayapataka Maharaja?

Jayapataka: Pardon?

Tamala Krsna: The work? When will it begin? Begin?

Jayapataka: Mahesvara told me the work is going on.

Tamala Krsna: It's going on?

Devotee (1): He said some men are coming today.

Jayapataka: Yes. More are coming today.

Prabhupada: So they are having no difficulty?

Tamala Krsna: Seems to be they are enjoying themselves.

Hamsaduta: On the whole, the devotees don't appear to be falling sick as they have in previous years.

Tamala Krsna: No.

Hamsaduta: They seem to be well and happy.

Tamala Krsna: Arrangements are getting better every year.

Trivikrama: The devotees are getting better every year.

Tamala Krsna: Yeah.

Pancadravida: The devotees aren't eating so much and sleeping so much this year.

Tamala Krsna: No, they don't sleep at all. They get up at one-thirty.

Pancadravida: Yeah, they're very good. [break]

Jayapataka: ...make a suggestion before they leave, have a little meeting, how things could be improved. Then next year we could even make it better.

Prabhupada: Very good. Yes. Make that suggestion.

Pusta Krsna: Srila Prabhupada?

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Pusta Krsna: Is the earth also spinning?

Prabhupada: No.

Pusta Krsna: Or is it simply the sun's movement that causes the day and night, everything?

Prabhupada: No planet is fixed except the sun. All are fixed up. But the whole thing is moving. That is Bhagavatam. And that you can see at night.

Gurudasa: What'd he say?

Pancadravida: No planet is fixed. The earth and sun, they're all moving.

Gurudasa: The sun is fixed.

Tamala Krsna: Yeah, but they're all moving.

Hari-sauri: But they're all moving.

Prabhupada: It is like a tree, just like this. This is moving, and the sun is moving, and all other planets, they are fixed.

Hari-sauri: How is it we see the moon coming in every day, then?

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Hari-sauri: How is it that we see the moon moving?

Prabhupada: Moon, that is... Of course, I do not remember, but [laughs] the whole planetary system is moving.

Tamala Krsna: And the sun is fixed, but the whole, it's also moving.

Prabhupada: Yes. Sun is also moving.

Pusta Krsna: Everything is revolving around that polestar?

Prabhupada: Hmm.

Tamala Krsna: Yes.

Jayapataka: Everything is moving around the sun, and the sun is moving around the polestar.

Pusta Krsna: No. Everything is not moving around the sun.

Hari-sauri: Like that tree, if the tree revolves by itself, like that, then the sun is going around the whole thing.

Prabhupada: This is also another intelligent.

Pusta Krsna: Yes.

Hari-sauri: The tree is just moving like that, and the different branches, they remain in the same position in relationship to the center of the tree.

Pusta Krsna: But the sun has it's own...

Hari-sauri: But the sun has an orbit around the whole thing.

Pusta Krsna: It's own course.

Hari-sauri: So the whole universe moves around. Every twenty-four hours it does one rotation. And then the sun goes round all that.

Pusta Krsna: Every twenty-four hours?

Prabhupada: The moon...

Gurudasa: Acintya-bhedabheda-tattva.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Gurudasa: It seems to be one and different simultaneously.

Prabhupada: No, no, not like that point. [laughs]

Satsvarupa: Srila Prabhupada, are the planets shaped liked balls or more like plates? Because it's..., it's hard to understand, 'cause they're called dvipas, "islands." Their roundness is the roundness of a plate or like a ball?

Prabhupada: Which one?

Satsvarupa: The earth planet?

Prabhupada: If it is like a tree, then these things can be as dvipa, island.

Tamala Krsna: Wow. You know...

Prabhupada: Eh?

Tamala Krsna: The scientists are getting smashed to bits by your statements, Srila Prabhupada. This destroys their whole theory. Orbs, round spheres. I think that this Mayapur building, we must build a big planetarium in it.

Prabhupada: Yes. That, that I am going to do, Vedic planetarium.

Tamala Krsna: Oh, boy. You're going to bring a lot of... A lot of scientists will come here just to dispute this.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Pusta Krsna: Wonderful attraction.

Prabhupada: World people will come to see the way the planetary systems...

Tamala Krsna: We should advertise it very widely that this is the actual, factual explanation of the universe.

Prabhupada: This will be automatically advertised. As soon as the temple is finished, people will come like anything.

Hari-sauri: They're going to need somebody to...

Prabhupada: The thing is, on principle, we shall only go against them.

Hamsaduta: Contrary.

Prabhupada: On principle. [laughs] Whatever they say "Yes," we say "No." [laughter]

Pancadravida: What is the explanation of an eclipse?

Prabhupada: Eh?

Pancadravida: Eclipse.

Prabhupada: Eclipse are... So that Rahu planet comes to attack the sun and the moon. And when it comes, it becomes dark.

Pancadravida: How does it attack?

Prabhupada: How do I attack you?

Pancadravida: When we see part of the moon disappear, what is actually happening?

Prabhupada: Happening, that attack... Suppose if I come to attack you and if I am in front, then you cannot see.

Tamala Krsna: Yeah. Like now I can't see.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Tamala Krsna: Yeah. Just like Prabhupada's... I'm standing behind him, and when he attacks you, I can't see you.

Nanda-kumara: By the scientists' calculation of what's happening with the revolving, they can predict an eclipse.

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Nanda-kumara: They can say in advance when an eclipse will come.

Prabhupada: Well we can also predict.

Pancadravida: Yeah. They predicted Lord Caitanya's appearance.

Balavanta: And five thousand years ago, in Kuruksetra, they predicted when Krsna went...

Pancadravida: So apparently they can predict Rahu's attack also.

Tamala Krsna: That's all right.

Gurudasa: Actually, even the scientists say there is astrological reasons behind Rahu the planet.

Pancadravida: So they're predicting five thousand years before the scientists. This is explanation.

Prabhupada: No, when there was no civilization.

Pusta Krsna: Yes.

Prabhupada: Eh? They...

Tamala Krsna: There is no civilization five thousand years ago.

Prabhupada: Yes. Three thousand years...

Tamala Krsna: All cavemen.

Prabhupada: ...before, there was no civilization.

Tamala Krsna: I just... I read that recently in an anthropology book, that 3000 B.C., means five thousand years ago, everyone was living in... Especially in this part of the world, people were simply living in caves.

Pusta Krsna: English propaganda.

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Pusta Krsna: English propaganda.

Tamala Krsna: They had very crude tools for making their things. Practically they were all like animals.

Prabhupada: So how this literature came?

Hari-sauri: Well, they say that it's not older than 1,000, 1,500 years old.

Prabhupada: One thousand.... But where are other literatures like that, 1,500 years, in Europe and other places?

Pusta Krsna: No such thing.

Prabhupada: So only the literatures were here in India?

Pancadravida: No, they have them. They also have mythology in Greece, and Roman mythology too.

Prabhupada: Mythology maybe, but so purposeful verses, where is in other country?

Pancadravida: Nowhere.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Balavanta: Bhagavad-gita's philosophy...

Prabhupada: Yes.

Pancadravida: That they can't match anywhere.

Prabhupada: Then?

Tamala Krsna: How can a caveman make it, then?

Prabhupada: Yes.

Trivikrama: Each verse, so...

Prabhupada: Each rich... Is it possible to compose verses by the cavemen? How foolish they are. Not only that; in Mahabharata there are 100,000 verses. In Bhagavata, there are 18,000 verses. In the Puranas... Where is such rich literature? If they were cavemen, wherefrom this literature came?

Satsvarupa: They also said Krsna was a tribal chief. But how could He speak such philosophy?

Prabhupada: How rascal they are.

Pancadravida: There are a few flaws in the theory. [laughter]

Prabhupada: The best class of men, the Aryans, and they were worshiping a tribal chief. And what was Arjuna? He was also a tribal chief? Arjuna said that "I become Your disciple." So what was he, that he is submitting to a tribal chief? Sisyas te 'ham sadhi mam prapannam [Bg 2.7].

And He's teaching Bhagavad-gita?

Lokanatha: Which is being read after five thousand years.

Prabhupada: And still, they cannot assimilate it, so much so-called civilized men, they cannot understand even the beginning of Bhagavad-gita, tatha dehantara-praptih [Bg 2.13], that there is transmigration of the soul, these rascals. And who is tribal chief?

Hamsaduta: Just to master the language takes twelve years.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Hamsaduta: What to speak of understanding the content. [break]

Jayapataka: ...exhibit the farce of modern science.

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Jayapataka: Farce of modern science, and every philosophy and science group, where they are just cheating the public. Then exhibit how Krsna consciousness is showing the real way.

Prabhupada: Yes. So do that in this planetarium.

Pancadravida: That will be very nice.

Prabhupada: That is.

Gurudasa: Srila Prabhupada, a few years ago I presented an exposition, and in that was a planetarium, and also there was an exhibit called "Man's Relationship with God," which was the alternative to modern anthropology, showing how anthropology is not valid and man's relationship with God is the valid thing, and then regulation is the preventative of the disease, is the alternative to psychology or behaviorism, like that. All these exhibitors can be there, showing how science is false and Krsna consciousness...

Prabhupada: So whatever thoughts are coming, you note it. Keep it. We shall utilize it with reference, with reference to the sastra.

Gurudasa: Jaya. [break]

Jayapataka: This special exhibition building?

Prabhupada: Bhagavata. Take every page of Bhagavata. And I think every year there should be change.

Hamsaduta: New exhibit.

Prabhupada: New exhibit.

Hamsaduta: Otherwise it will become stale.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Hamsaduta: 'Cause we have so much material.

Gurudasa: It should be done very easily.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Gurudasa: By conveyor belts and...

Prabhupada: No, here, the doll-makers, they can make dolls within fifteen days-finished. They can do, so expert.

Gurudasa: That should be life-size.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Gurudasa: It should be life-size, like walking into the forest of Naimisaranya.

Prabhupada: Life-size or not life-size. Three feet, four feet, that will be...

Hamsaduta: The old exhibits can be sold to the visiting temples. They can take them back to their...

Prabhupada: No, that is not possible.

Jayapataka: BBT... BBT did such nice packing with this modern styrofoam that they could easily move even fragile clay models.

Prabhupada: Yes. [break] What is that?

Jayapataka: They brought the glasslike thing, and they didn't break it, with this plastic foam.

Prabhupada: Oh, oh. That plastic bullet is now in motorcar. Even if you fire, it will not enter, the bullet. Is it not?

Gurudasa: Windows? Plastic in the motorcar?

Pusta Krsna: Bullet-proof glass.

Pancadravida: Yeah, they have bullet-proof glass.

Gurudasa: They have something in regular cars that if it hits, it won't break.

Hari-sauri: It shatters.

Gurudasa: And in the cars of big men they have bullet-proof glass. [break]

Pusta Krsna: Srila Prabhupada, the devotees... Satadhanya was asking if there could be a group photograph on the grass this morning after class, for five minutes. [break]

Prabhupada: ...that we are killing vegetables, but actually we are not killing. They are already dead. Hmm?

Gurudasa: Also there's a verse in the Bhagavatam that says that there may be a fire on the ground, but the seed underneath the ground is still living. The tops may be cut, but the seed is still living. [break]

Prabhupada: ...painting he has made?

Pusta Krsna: He said he would complete it today.

Prabhupada: Oh.

Pusta Krsna: And he'd like to show it to you tomorrow.

Prabhupada: [aside:] Jaya. [break]

Radhavallabha: They keep putting their pictures there. I keep taking them off.

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Radhavallabha: ISKCON Amsterdam keeps putting their pictures up in front of the books. I keep taking them down. They keep putting them up again.

Prabhupada: Hmm? Why you are taking?

Radhavallabha: They can't see the books.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Radhavallabha: It's not possible to see the books with the pictures up. They can put them down at the end where there is some room. [break]

Tamala Krsna: Krsna-Balarama.

Pusta Krsna: They're dressed in peacock feathers?

Prabhupada: Hmm?

Pusta Krsna: They're dressed in peacock feathers?

Prabhupada: The dress, [indistinct].

Gurudasa: Jaya. Krsna Balarama ki jaya.

Prabhupada: Jaya. Where is that babaji gone? He's not... [break]

[Transl. Do not leave. Take prasada and then go.]

Babaji: [Transl. Beg a pardon?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Take prasada before you leave.]

Babaji: [Transl. I am going to Navadvipa for a while.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Just now?]

Babaji: [Transl. Yes. Otherwise it will be crowded later.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Can you see everything?]

Babaji: [Transl. Yes. I will have some darsana.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Can you see picture? These pictures are of our different temples all over the world.]

Babaji: [Transl. Yes. Santa Maharaja was telling us one day about what wonder you have done.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. We have got 102 temples. Big, big. This is Paris temple.]

Babaji: [Transl. Prabhupada has empowered you to do all this. What you have done…You preached all over the world.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. And here the big, big proffessors are appreciating…]

Babaji: [Transl. Will they remain here permanently?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. They will stay permanently. They won't remain like this. The new building will be constructed.]

Babaji: [Transl. You look weaker than last year.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes, weak. Not much eating. Can't eat properly.] [break] [What is this?]

Babaji: [Transl. Wasn't it there during parikrama?]

Prabhupada: Ah?

Babaji: [Transl. Wasn't it there during parikrama? Or a new one?]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Yes, yes. It was there. Last year we made some doll exhibition, but the local hooligans came and broke them.]

Babaji: [Transl. Tapasvi Maharaja told us about that. He came to this side.]

Prabhupada: [Transl. Who?]

Babaji: [Transl. Tapasvi Maharaja. Akrurnatha Prabhu.]

[end]