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Room Conversation

June 24, 1976, New Vrindaban
Prabhupada: So what news?
Dhrstadyumna: Well, Srila Prabhupada, we've distributed about 70,000 magazines so far this month. So I think we'll reach 100,000 in this month. Even though we are getting much harassment from the police, still we are going on.
Prabhupada: Why harassment? What is the fault?
Dhrstadyumna: [break] They are mostly godless, Srila Prabhupada. They see us as a nuisance to the public. We are threatening their sense gratification.
Kirtanananda: What fault did Prahlada have?
Prabhupada: Sense gratification, we are refusing them?
Dhrstadyumna: We are threatening their sense gratification.
Prabhupada: Hmm. So it is bad?
Dhrstadyumna: It is bad for their way of life. Just like Prahlada was preaching to his school friends. And I think almost 20,000 big books so far.
Prabhupada: "So far" means?
Dhrstadyumna: Up to this month, for the first three weeks.
Hari-sauri: Means there's one more, one more week.
Dhrstadyumna: Nine days left.
Prabhupada: What is your party doing?
Kirtanananda: What is what?
Prabhupada: Your party, selling books?
Kirtanananda: I don't know what the figures are.
Prabhupada: No, your line is this farming.
Kirtanananda: Per capita, we distribute more books.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Kirtanananda: Per man, we distribute more books than they do. I think per man we distribute more than anybody in ISKCON.
Prabhupada: And still they are maintaining this farm.
Dhrstadyumna: And building very nice buildings.
Prabhupada: Hmm?
Dhrstadyumna: Very nice projects they are building.
Prabhupada: This project should be advanced-plain living, high thinking.
Dhrstadyumna: I think we'll take around that film of New Vrindaban to all the colleges this year when we are preaching and show it to the students as our practical example.
Prabhupada: This is nasty civilization, unnecessarily increasing necessities of life. Anartha.
Kirtanananda: We would not have understood you if you had said that eight, ten years ago.
Prabhupada: Hmm?
Kirtanananda: Ten years ago I know I could not have understood you if you had said that. Now I understand a little bit.
Prabhupada: Now suppose these electric lights. So, crude form of light, we grow some castor seed, everything from the earth. This also you are getting from earth, petroleum, and running on machine, and electricity is generated. But really you are getting the impetus from the earth. As soon as the petroleum supply is stopped, everything stopped. But for this purpose you have to search out petroleum from the middle of ocean, boring. Therefore it is ugra-karma. The purpose is that you grow some castor seed, press it, get oil, put in any pot, and one wick, the light is there. So even understanding that you have improved the lighting system, but that is not the only necessity of my life. But to improve from the castor seed lamp, castor oil lamp, to this electricity, you have to work so hard. You have to go to the middle of ocean and drill it and get out petroleum and... In this way your real business of life is finished. The energy and the intelligence you got for your self-realization or your, this precarious position, constantly dying and taking birth in various species of life, this is your problem, and this was to be solved in human life, you have got advanced intelligence, but that intelligence is utilized from castor seed lamp to the electric lamp. That's all. Just try to understand. What is that improvement? And for this improving from castor seed oil lamp to electricity lamp, you forget your real business. You lost yourself. This civilization is going on. This is called maya. For some fictitious happiness you lose your whole purpose of life. It is difficult to understand, but the fact is there. But you are under the control of nature, you have to give up this body. All right, you make very nice arrangement to live here, nature will not allow you to live. You must die. And after death you are going to get another body. So in this body, working for high grade electricity lamp, you work so hard, have got your own business, and next life by the laws of nature, if you get the body of a dog, then what is the benefit? That you cannot check. What is the answer? Hmm?
Kuladri: Simple living, high thinking.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Kuladri: Simple living.
Prabhupada: No, here is the charge. Now what is your answer? In this life you are living very comfortably, next life if I'm going to be a dog, then this is the charge. Now how this class of men will answer it? Can he deny that he's not going to be a dog?
Kirtanananda: He says he doesn't believe it.
Prabhupada: You believe or not believe. Just like this child, it is boy, he does not know anything. But I know, his mother knows, his father knows that he's going to be young man. If he says, "No, I am not going to be young man," that is childish. That is childish. But the father, mother, friends know that the boy is going to grow a young man, so he should be educated and he should be properly situated. That is the guardian's business. He doesn't know. He doesn't know. So that he doesn't know, that does not mean it is fact. So similarly, if rascals say, "I don't believe it," that's not a fact. He is a rascal, mad, he may say so, but that is not the fact. Karanam guna-sangasya. Real fact is that he'll have to accept a body according to the quality of development.
Kirtanananda: But what if they say that "Actually this life of growing the castor seed is very difficult, farming is very difficult. It is easier to go to the factory for eight hours, and then I come home with my money and I enjoy."
Prabhupada: No, you enjoy, but by enjoying, if you forget your real business, is that intelligent? Your real business is that you have got this human form of body to improve your next life. You are going to have a next life. Suppose you are going to be a dog. Is that success? So you must know the science that instead of becoming dog, how shall you become God. That is intelligence.
Kirtanananda: Why is it any better to grow castor seed than to dig oil?
Prabhupada: Huh?
Kirtanananda: Why is it any better to grow castor seed than to...
Prabhupada: No, you require lamp. So you finish that lamping business as simply as possible. In the balance time you save you improve your self-realization. That is the life. Just like this child, he wants to play. He does not go to school, does not take an education, and he improves type of toys, toys, he's engaged in improved type of football playing, and... Then is that very good intelligence?
Kirtanananda: But nobody works longer hours than the farmer.
Prabhupada: Huh?
Kirtanananda: No one works harder than the farmer. The farmer has to work very hard.
Prabhupada: No, our point is that if you think that electricity improvement is better than farming, we have no objection. But if you forget your real business, is that intelligent?
Kirtanananda: No, of course not.
Prabhupada: That is our proposal. Our real business is how to become Krsna conscious. So simply for improving the condition of life, the necessities of life, if I forget my real business, is that intelligence? Therefore it is said duskrtinah. Krti means merit. But merit is being utilized for sinful activities. Take for example the meat-eaters. When man was... The uncivilized man is still there. In the uncivilized way they are living in the jungle. They require to eat something. So they stone over an animal going, and the animal dies, and then they eat. Now instead of killing the animal by stoning, if you have discovered scientific machine in the slaughterhouse to kill the animal, is that improvement? If you think this is advancement, "Now we have discovered very technical machine. Instead of stoning one animal killing, it takes so much time, hundreds and thousands of animals you can kill in one hour," do you think that is improvement? That is going on. They think this is improvement. When we were uncivilized, we were stoning some animal and killing and eating, now we are, business is the sameanimal killing and eating. But we have improved the machine how to kill. This is going on. This is going on as advancement of civilization. Hmm? What is your answer? Is that advancement of civilization? Now you are civilized, instead of killing the animal, you just take milk from it without killing and make so many nice preparations, and that is civilization. But killing is sinful. You have no right to kill any animal, even an ant. Because you cannot give life to anyone. It is nature's law, God's law. So infringement on the laws of nature or God, it is sinful activities. So you are utilizing your merit for this sinful activity. Therefore it is called duskrtinah. Merit is there, but it is utilized for sinful activities. That is defect of the modern civilization.
Kuladri: Srila Prabhupada, I remember once you said...
Prabhupada: These questions that "I believe," "I don't believe," you are rascal, what is the meaning of your believe or not believing? You are, after all, a rascal. Just like a child will say something, "I don't believe." The mother will say "You are rascal, you must go to your room." So rascals believe or not believe, what is the meaning? Mudha. It is the law of nature. Tatha dehantara-praptih [Bg. 2.13]. The example is given that this boy will change his body. Dehantara-praptir. He'll become a young boy, young man. This body will not remain. What is the difficulty to understand? Yes, this body will not remain. While he came out of the womb of the mother, that was another body. But these rascals, they do not understand it. It is very difficult to deal with the rascals, that's a fact, but... Whatever they are doing is all rascaldom, that's all. And forgetting their real business. So your son, does he believe that he's going to be a young man? You believe? (laughs) Huh? What is your...
Kulasekhara: I remember once when we were staying at John Lennon's estate, you said to me...
Prabhupada: Huh?
Kulasekhara: At John Lennon's estate, remember? In London. You said to me, the tractor, you said, this is the cause of all the trouble. That it took all the work from the young men and they went to the city and became entangled in the sense gratification in the cities. So I've noticed in the city there's much more passion, but living in the country is simpler.
Prabhupada: Yes, passion, there must be. When you have got the facility, naturally we are lusty, and when we have got the facility, then we take to it.
Kulasekhara: The country is more peaceful. It's easier to think of spiritual life.
Prabhupada: Yes. Less disease. Less brain taxing. Everything is less. So balance time, utilize for Krsna consciousness. And if you have got temple, it is very happy life. Just for your food work little, and balance time engage yourself in Krsna consciousness. This is ideal life. Just see minute fibers on the flower. Can anyone manufacture this? So small fibers. And how brilliant it is. If you study only one flower, you become God conscious. There is a machine which we call nature. From that machine, everything is coming. But how machine is perfect? And who has discovered this machine?
Kulasekhara: In London you said they do not know that the butterflies and flowers are painted, but Krsna paints them with thought.
Prabhupada: Yes. How you can expect without painting it has come so beautiful? This is foolishness, "nature"what is this nature? Everything is being done by the machine of Krsna. Parasya saktir vividaiva sruyate. Anyway, improve this mode of life. Live in open place, produce your food grains, produce your milk, save time, chant Hare Krsna. Plain living, high thinking, ideal life. Artificial necessities of life do increase your so-called comforts, but if you forget your real business, that is suicidal. We want to stop this suicidal policy. We don't want to stop the modern advancement of technology, although the so-called advancement technology is suicidal. But we don't talk of this. (laughter) Caitanya Mahaprabhu has therefore given a simple formula-chant Hare Krsna. Even in your technological factories, you can chant. What is the wrong there? You go on pulling on with your machine and chant, Hare Krsna, Hare Krsna, Krsna Krsna.
Kirtanananda: They know that if people take up the chanting, gradually they will give up this technology.
Prabhupada: That is, of course.
Kirtanananda: You are actually putting the seeds of their destruction.
Prabhupada: Yes. No, what is destruction? It is, rather, construction. (laughter) He'll live. He'll live forever. This is destruction. You have to change body. But our method, this tyaktva deham punar janma naiti [Bg. 4.9]. You don't get anymore material body. So that is saving. And without this? Tatha dehantara-praptir. Then you have to accept another body. So which is better? To accept another material body or no more accepting material body? Which is better? But as soon as you accept material body, you have to suffer. Material body means suffering. So that requires knowledge. If we finish our suffering up to this body, that is intelligent. And if we create another body for suffering, is that intelligent? But you have to, unless you understand Krsna, you have to accept. There is no alternative. Na hanyate hanyamane sarire [Bg. 2.20]. They are so dull they cannot understand the simple truth that as the child, boy is accepting another body, we have to accept another body. They cannot understand. So dull brain. It will take five hundred years to teach them this very simple fact. Huh? Their education is so advanced. (laughter) Therefore mudha, the word is used. So-called education keeps them as an ass. Cannot understand the simple truth. So everyone is getting milk? How much?
Kirtanananda: As much as they want.
Prabhupada: As much as they want, then jaundice. (laughter) Too much is not good. They may take minimum half pound per head.
Kirtanananda: Minimum.
Prabhupada: Minimum. And maximum one pound. Not more than that. But "Because there is enough, let us eat," no. That is not good. But children must get at least one pound, milk. If they drink more milk they become stout and strong.
Kirtanananda: They get more than one pound. They get at least two pounds.
Prabhupada: Then their life is built up strong, and nice brain to understand. Do they not see the benefit of the society, that we are not killing children, we are maintaining them with sufficient milk. Is it not better civilization? And they are, for fear of overpopulation, they are killing. The mother is killing the child. Is that civilization?
Kirtanananda: But in Bhagavad-gita Krsna says that those in the mode of ignorance, they take irreligion to be religion and religion to be irreligion.
Prabhupada: No, religion, there is no religion for them, but there is no morality. Here we are having so many children, we don't brag that "We cannot maintain these children. Kill them." We never say that. Never mind. Let them be trained up as Krsna conscious, live comfortably, take milk. So which is better civilization? Running with motorcar, putputputputputputputput and killing child? Is that civilization?
Kirtanananda: Most of these children are not even our own. They have been taken in from...
Prabhupada: Just see, that means we welcome.
Kirtanananda: ...mothers without fathers,
Prabhupada: That means we welcome and they kill. So why do they not find the distinction between this civilization, that civilization?
Dhrstadyumna: They have no arguments against this except that they want to be free. In colleges...
Prabhupada: But they are not free. That means they are fools. They are not free, still they are thinking free. That is foolishness. If you are actually free, that is another thing, (laughs) but you are not free. You are responsible for even a minute work or misdeed, you are responsible. Where is your freedom? That freedom means ahankara vimudhatma kartaham iti manyate [Bg. 3.27]. The rascal, foolish, bewildered, he's thinking that he's free. Where is your freedom? Nature is working. If you are free, then why you are dying? If you are free, then do not die. Nobody wants to die. What is the answer?
Dhrstadyumna: They will give some nonsense answer.
Prabhupada: What is that nonsense? In nonsense there must be some sense also.
Pusta Krsna: I think they would like both. Like the Christians, they would like to enjoy sinful life and at the same time live forever.
Prabhupada: No, we don't talk of any sect, we are talking of the general principles.
Pusta Krsna: Their tendency is...
Prabhupada: Now the people's tendency, general tendency is, unless he's a madman, nobody is prepared to die. But he has to die.
Dhrstadyumna: But I accept death as part of life.
Prabhupada: Part of life?
Dhrstadyumna: Yes, it's natural. So I don't, I'm not afraid.
Prabhupada: Then when there is some sign of death, why do you go away? Sit down and die. (laughter) You don't accept. You are talking foolishly. You don't want to die. That is a fact. You are talking foolishly, that "I accept it," but you don't accept it. That is the fact. But because you have no other way, then you say, "I accept it." The real fact is this, that you do not wish to die, but you find that there is no other alternative, "Then I accept it. All right." So you can talk like that, foolishly, but intelligent man, you do not want to die.
Dhrstadyumna: One time, one boy said that. So as soon as he said it, I picked up a stick and went like that "Oh!" and said "See, you are afraid." And he said, "No, I'm not afraid." So I wentand he was showing fear.
Prabhupada: Even dog is afraid, what to speak of man. The animals, when they are taken to be slaughtered, they cry. So animal is afraid of death, why not man? Everyone is afraid.
Kuladri: Prabhupada? They say why do you worry so much about death? We are living. We are enjoying life, why do you worry about death?
Prabhupada: Because we are intelligent. I love you. Therefore you'll die and you'll become a dog, so I am taking sympathy on you that "Don't become a dog." Every human being is anxious. The example is given just like a child flying kite and is going this way, this way, on the roof. Now on the edge of the roof, so one gentleman standing, "Hey, you'll fall down." That is his duty. He says, "Why you are checking me?" (laughter) "Why you are checking me?" "Because I am human being. You are foolish boy. Therefore I am checking you." That is natural. Even a child, or the boy is not his son, but because he is a gentleman, he wants to give him some protection. It is the duty of gentleman. Therefore Caitanya Mahaprabhu said to the Indians, that "You become perfect and go and give this knowledge to the rest of the world. They are all rascals." Bharata-bhumite haila manusya-janma yara janma sarthaka kari' kara para-upakara [Cc. Adi 9.41]. It is para-upakara, humanitarian. You may say "Why do you bother?" But as a human being, I bother. Every human being will do that. Krsna comes, bothering Himself. Yada yada hi dharmasya glanir bhavati bharata [Bg. 4.7]. "When these have become rascals, fools, I come, again advise them." So those who are servants of God, they are also doing the same thing, on behalf of God. Their position is therefore exalted. They should be worshiped as God because they are doing the work of God. They are not cheating public. So improve this farming very nicely. So the cows, they should be given as much as possible pasturing. If you simply drink little milk, and little vegetables, that will supply all vitamins. You do not require to take vitamin pills. No, there is no need. It has got all the vitamins. That is admitted. Vitamin A, D, in milk, they say... And fruits, vitamin C. In this way, in fruits, vegetables, grains, milk, all vitamins are there.
Kulasekhara: Srila Prabhupada, if you take milk in other forms, like if you eat cheese, if you take curd or cheese, is it the same as drinking milk or ... ?
Prabhupada: Yes. Any milk preparation. And if you have got enough milk, then keep it as ghee and open restaurant in the city. Give them nice samosa, kachori. So in exchange you get money, you require little money, so that money will help you. Actually, in India, before these British, the poorer class of men, they were simply keeping, say, a dozen of cows, and that was their means of livelihood, that's all. From the milk they'll eat the, that, little milk, then yogurt, then..., what is called? It is another milk?
Devotees: Casein? Curd? Cheese?
Visakha: Buttermilk.
Prabhupada: Buttermilk, yes, and in this way after drinking and eating so many things, whatever balance is there, churn it and they get ghee, and that ghee is kept in stock. On the market day, they go to the city and sell it. You'll find in Vrndavana, so many cultivators, they have brought ghee. So the inhabitants of the city, town, they require ghee, they purchase, and with that money they get some necessities, just like some oil or some spices, salt, like this, which is not available. In this way...
Hari-sauri: How is it they are so keen on buffalo milk in India?
Prabhupada: Hmm?
Hari-sauri: The Indians, they seem to prefer buffalo milk to cow milk.
Prabhupada: No, cow milk is not available, therefore buffalo milk contains more fat. But milk means cow's milk. What is the daily milk?
Kirtanananda: About a thousand pounds.
Prabhupada: Those who are meat-eaters, why don't you inform them, when a cow dies, that "You can take it."
Kirtanananda: That would be illegal.
Prabhupada: Why? Legal, illegal, that is their whim.
Kirtanananda: But that will get us in trouble.
Prabhupada: No, no. That is, they can give us, they are in power, they can do that, but legally...
Kirtanananda: Yes, you are right. If they want to eat, let them take the dead cow.
Prabhupada: They take it. Free, they get without any price. They get the skin, they get flesh, let them eat. We are not going to charge for the... You take it. Why maintain slaughterhouse? Take this.
Kirtanananda: They even object if you let the animals, wild animals eat the dead cow.
Prabhupada: Hmm?
Kirtanananda: They even object if you let the wild animals eat. They want it buried.
Prabhupada: Oh, jackals or fox, if they come, they don't like it.
Kirtanananda: The jackals like it.
Prabhupada: No, jackals like it, (laughter) but government...
Kirtanananda: Government doesn't like it.
Prabhupada: Government will like when the jackal takes your animal. They will eat it, they will not attack somebody else, because if they are not hungry, they don't attack. Even tiger or any ferocious animal, if they are satisfied in hunger, they don't attack. In the jungle, tiger and other animals, they live together. When they are hungry, they attack. So at least you can advertise that here is a cow, available free. Take it, those who are meat-eaters. Take free without any price.
Pusta Krsna: Most meat-eaters would consider it disgusting.
Prabhupada: Hmm?
Pusta Krsna: Most meat-eaters would consider it disgusting to have to cut cow open.
Prabhupada: Disgusting?
Pusta Krsna: Yes. If they had to do it themselves they would consider it abominable.
Prabhupada: No, some of them can do it, make business. As there are butchers, as they are selling meat, they can take it, they'll make more profit. From slaughterhouse, if they purchase, they have to pay, but here they get free. The hotel man, they can get free. The tannary expert, he'll get this skin free. I have seen they are eating the lobster, it is so decomposed it has become exactly like puss and they are eating. That argument is not valid.
Kirtanananda: They cannot even eat the animal when it is fresh. They never eat beef fresh. It must age for at least three weeks, otherwise it is not tasty. (laughter)
Hari-sauri: I remember once there was one man, he was advertising himself, he was touring from one country to another, and he was advertising himself as being an expert meat-eater. And he said, one of his statements was you couldn't eat a beefsteak until it had little white spots all over it, then it was ready to eat.
Prabhupada: White spot means decomposed. Fungus. Nana yoni brahmana kare kadarya bhaksana kari' tara janma adho pate yaya.
Dhrstadyumna: Srila Prabhupada, we can point out all the defects in their system but then they say "But there is no proof that such a perfect society has ever existed as you speak of. We have no evidence that such a perfect society exists."
Prabhupada: You can see, come and see with us. Live in our New Vrindaban, you'll see.
Dhrstadyumna: Then they say "Well, that is all right for you, but that is not practical for everyone."
Kirtanananda: Why not? We are human beings, and you are human being.
Prabhupada: So what is not practical for you, our system, your system is also not practical for us. We cannot live in this way. Anyway, if you can maintain a perfect community of plain living, high thinking, that is sufficient. We do not canvass, but naturally they will see that this is convenient. After all, they are human beings. They are learning. So that is part of our business to preach, but to practice personally, that is our main business. To practice personally, that is our main business. Not that everyone will be preacher, but at least his own life be perfect. What is this kijariya?
Kulasekhara: I don't know if it's spelled right, Prabhupada.
Kirtanananda: Ki jaya
Prabhupada: Ki jaya. Oh.
Kulasekhara: It is misspelled? I'm no Sanskrit scholar, Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Guruban dhama ki, that ki should be different.
Kulasekhara: K-i?
Prabhupada: No, not kijaya. Ki one word, jaya one word. Just like Guruban one word, dhama one word. Similarly ki one word and jaya.
Kulasekhara: The spelling is correct though?
Prabhupada: Spelling? Yes, but generally k-i.
Kulasekhara: I couldn't find, I looked in many books but I couldn't find ki jaya.
Prabhupada: Jaya is all right.
Kirtanananda: What does ki mean?
Prabhupada: Ki means possessive, "of."
Kulasekhara: Have you been receiving the past copies of the magazine, Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Hmm?
Kulasekhara: Have you been receiving the past issues?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Pusta Krsna: Prabhupada read the last issue in Hawaii. I remember you read through the last issue with a brown cover in Hawaii.
Prabhupada: So how you make this double color. Twice printed?
Kulasekhara: Three times. Red, black and yellow.
Prabhupada: Vrndavana-candra? No.
Kirtanananda: Vrndavana-natha.
Prabhupada: Where?
Kirtanananda: He is at the original farm where you stayed. This is the pujari. Very, very nice boy. He also makes that nice sandesh. Radhanatha.
Prabhupada: And who makes the singara?
Kirtanananda: Kuladri.
Hari-sauri: Kuladri makes those, he's doing some special thing to them.
Prabhupada: They are not giving me. (laughter)
Kirtanananda: He's doing it right now. You'll have it tonight.
Hari-sauri: He's doing it now.
Prabhupada: Not night.
Kirtanananda: They said you want it at night. When would you like it, noon?
Prabhupada: Morning.
Kirtanananda: Breakfast.
Prabhupada: Yes, it is very nice. You decorate Krsna very nicely, then you'll forget the business of decorating your person. This is the effect. Because people are busy how to decorate himself. They are spending so much money. Huh? But if you decorate Krsna nicely, you'll forget this propensity. This is the process.
Kulasekhara: You also said if you decorate Krsna, make Krsna beautiful, your heart will become beautiful.
Prabhupada: Yes. It is not fashion, it is for our benefit. By seeing Krsna beautifully decorated, he'll be satisfied. He'll have no more propensity, "Let me go to the market and find out some nice rag and decorate myself." Finished. Hundreds and thousands of people in the temple, by seeing Krsna nicely decorated, he's satisfied. Everyone satisfied.
Kulasekhara: Srila Prabhupada, I think Radha-Vrndavan-candra are more beautiful than the Deities in London.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. (laughter) London differently.
Kulasekhara: They are very beautiful, but Radha-Vrndavana-candra...
Prabhupada: Vrndavana-candra is village beauty, and He is London beauty. He's town beauty.
Kulasekhara: I have not seen more beautiful anywhere than Radha-Vrndavana-candra. The jewelry...
Prabhupada: No. Every one is beautiful, but everyone praises our London Deity.
Kirtanananda: They have not seen Radha-Vrndavana-candra.
Prabhupada: Hmm?
Kirtanananda: They have not seen yet Radha-Vrndavana-candra.
Prabhupada: No, they have seen the picture. (pause) So how we can go there?
Kirtanananda: I can take you.
Prabhupada: By car?
Kirtanananda: By truck.
Prabhupada: By truck? (laughter) Cannot go by car? Difficult.
Kirtanananda: I wouldn't want to try it in a car. Might get, the road is not bad, but it is not quite good enough for a car.
Prabhupada: The same way we have to go?
Kirtanananda: Yes, but the road has been improved.
Prabhupada: So one day we can go.
Kirtanananda: When it dries up.
Prabhupada: You father is an architect, I see.
Kulasekhara: No, he's working on the docks.
Prabhupada: Oh. His father came to see me in London.
Kulasekhara: He used to chauffeur you in his car. He would drive you in his car from the airport.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Kulasekhara: He is a good man, but he's not intelligent.
Prabhupada: No, he'll profit by your activities. Krsna will give concession to your family. Because you are Vaisnava, everyone will get the profit.
Kulasekhara: In London you said thirteen generations.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. That is special concession. Hiranyakasipu was given, such a demon. But your father is not a demon. He may be less intelligent, that is another thing. So Krsna is prepared to give facility to a demon father of a devotee.
Kulasekhara: Anyone who gets to render you personal service, Prabhupada, they are most blessed, they are most fortunate.
Prabhupada: Anyway, you have got this jewel, utilize it properly, make your life perfect.
But we don't say that you starve, you unnecessarily give trouble to your body. No. Eat nicely, but simply, and save time for advancing in Krsna consciousness. That is our program. Nanda Maharaja was a village man. Krsna was village boy. Krsna could live in New Delhi, but He did not like that. He lived in Vrndavana, a village. But one difficulty is that it is not plain land. Little troublesome, but not very much troublesome. So is there any difficulty of not being a plain land?
Kirtanananda: It makes farming more difficult on the hill. It takes more time, more work.
Prabhupada: Hard work.
Kirtanananda: That is good.
Prabhupada: For cows there is no difficulty.
Kirtanananda: No.
Prabhupada: In India, they call Paharhi when they are accustomed to hard work. Those who live on the Himalayan side, they have to work little hard, therefore they are Paharhi. You have accepted other's children also?
Kirtanananda: Yes. Well, especially girls who have no husbands, there are quite a few here.
Prabhupada: Anyway, you are so kind you don't refuse anybody. That is..., who is so kind unless one is a Vaisnava? Nobody is kind. Krpa-sindhubhya eva ca. Krpa-sindhu, ocean of mercy, that is Vaisnava. Never mind what you are, come here, stay, drink milk, chant Hare Krsna.
Kirtanananda: The children are doing very nicely.
Prabhupada: Yes?
Kirtanananda: And they will be our future community.
Prabhupada: Oh, yes.
Kirtanananda: Practically it is impossible to teach these older boys how to use bulls and how to... It is very difficult, they cannot do it. But I think if we train the children.
Prabhupada: Yes. Krsna Himself did it. He was king's son, Nanda Maharaja. In the childhood, He was taking care of the calves, and when He was grown up, little, He was taking care of the cows. Krsna personally showed it. His father could have avoided, "No, no, You don't go. The servants will go." No. "You also go." Krsna-Balarama, both. Balarama has got the plow, tilling ground, and Krsna has got the flute to enchant the cows. Krsna-Balarama. They were not sitting idly, although Nanda Maharaja could keep Them without any work. No. They worked. From the beginning of childhood. They would come in the evening and mother would take care of bathing Them, changing dress, and then giving nice food, and after taking food They would go to rest. Whole day They worked. Krsna never taught that you sit idly. No. Personally, He did not do so, neither He taught anyone. In the Bhagavad-gita you'll find.
Find out this.
Hari-sauri: What was that again, Srila Prabhupada?
Prabhupada: Niyatah. You should read Bhagavad-gita so thoroughly for everything. That is good lawyer. Good lawyer means in the court, immediately give reference to the judge, "My Lordship, such and such law, under section...this is there." He's a good lawyer. Good lawyer means he immediately gives reference to the section on which he's talking. Immediately judgement is there. If there is previous authority and it is recorded in the lawbook, then he doesn't require to argue anymore, the evidence is there. Even in other court, if some judgement is there, they'll be accepted. This is the law. So a good lawyer means he gives references from different courts, the judgement makes easier. Instead of proceeding for a long time, he gives reference"Here is the judgement, you see," and immediately...
"Perform your prescribed duty, for action is better than inaction. A man cannot even maintain his physical body without work."
Prabhupada: Yes. Krsna consciousness does not mean to keep a set of men lazy, who cannot work. That is not Krsna consciousness. Everyone must work to his capacity. Prescribed duties. They accuse us that we are escaping. Huh? What is that? We do not escape. We are always busy.
Devotee: Recently I had an opportunity to see a (indistinct) farm community, and I was talking to one of the boys there about Krsna consciousness, and they said "You are under Swami Prabhupada." They said, "We have never seen Prabhupada smile." I told them that "Yes, birth, death, disease, and old age are nothing to smile about."
Prabhupada: There are so many pictures, smiling. (laughter)
Devotee: When you smile it's always beautiful.
Dhrstadyumna: They have not read your Bhagavad-gita, Srila Prabhupada. You are smiling here.
Prabhupada: No. There are so many. Hmm. What is that?
Dhrstadyumna: Purport? "There are many pseudo meditators who misrepresent themselves as belonging to high parentage, and great professional men who falsely pose that they have sacrificed everything for the sake of advancement in spiritual life. Lord Krsna did not want Arjuna to become a pretender, but that he perform his prescribed duties as set forth for ksatriyas. Arjuna was a householder and a military general, and therefore it was better for him to remain as such and perform his religious duties as prescribed for the householder ksatriya. Such activities gradually cleanse the heart of a mundane man and free him from material contamination. So-called renunciation for the purpose of maintenance is never approved by the Lord, nor by any religious scripture. After all, one has to maintain one's body and soul together by some work. Work should not be given up capriciously, without purification of materialistic propensities. Anyone who is in the material world is certainly possessed of the impure propensity for lording it over material nature, or, in other words, for sense gratification. Such polluted propensities have to be cleared. Without doing so, through prescribed duties, one should never attempt to become a so-called transcendentalist, renouncing work and living at the cost of others."
Prabhupada: That is not the right way. Krsna never said to Arjuna that "You haven't got to fight. You sit down, I shall do everything." He never said that. "You have to fight." Nimitta-matram bhava savyasacin. "And the result is already created by Me, but you have to make a manifestation of fighting." Just like our Krsna consciousness movement. Within eight or ten years we have developed so much. Is it humanly possible? It is Krsna's plan. But Krsna says that "You go and preach. Take the credit." Yes. It is His plan. Actually everything is done by Krsna. He gives the credit to His devotee, that's all. You know the history of the Detroit temple (laughs)?
Kirtanananda: A little bit, not too much.
Prabhupada: Detroit temple, it was, that building was constructed at a cost of two million dollars, say some fifty years, sixty years ago. And we purchased it at three hundred thousand dollars. So when they said that there is a nice house, so I told "Let me go immediately." So I went there and talked with the proprietor, so I liked it very much. It is a wonderful palace. So he asked $350,000. So I talked with him and asked some concession. Then I last bid again, "I'll give you cash, three hundred thousand." So he said "Yes, I accept." There was no money. (laughter) So the Bombay purchase, you know, it was simply speculation. So Krsna is giving us. For a karmi, it is not possible, but Krsna gives us all facilities. You have been in that palace, Detroit? Very, very nice. Perhaps the best in our society, huh?
Hari-sauri: Without a doubt.
Prabhupada: London, that is also nice, but not as nice. The building is so strong, and the rooms are so palatial, big, big, rooms. One room of this size of the whole...
Kirtanananda: How big is the temple room?
Hari-sauri: The temple room is not so big, fifty feet long and about thirty feet wide.
Prabhupada: Bigger than here, double.
Dhrstadyumna: Very nice garden.
Prabhupada: Very nice garden and on the riverside.
Kirtanananda: Can you bathe in the river?
Hari-sauri: Sometimes.
Prabhupada: Yes, if you like, you can bathe.
Hari-sauri: You can drive a boat in it underneath the house. There's a dock. It's like a garage.
Dhrstadyumna: All the rich people come by in their yachts all day long and wave, "Hare Krsna." So Srila Prabhupada said we should put a sign up on the, boat, that they can drive their boat in and take prasadam and read the books.
Prabhupada: Yes. And invite them, give here signboard: "Please come, read our books and take prasadam." Gradually, they will come. Very big garden.
Hari-sauri: Seven peacocks.
Kirtanananda: Is it stone?
Prabhupada: Huh?
Kirtanananda: What is it, the building is stone or...?
Prabhupada: Oh, yes. Stone, marble. With golden work.
Hari-sauri: The bathrooms, even the soap dishes, are gold. The soap dishes, the toilet roll holder, everything is gold.
Dhrstadyumna: Gold wall paper.
Prabhupada: One floor is like this. Very costly house.
Dhrstadyumna: They told me that the prasadam room floor alone, three hundred thousand dollars to build. And you have gotten the whole thing.
Prabhupada: Everywhere it is so beautiful, nice, strong, and quite suitable for our purpose. Everyone is living. Still, big, big three, four rooms, not yet utilized. And climate also is nice, at the present moment, huh?
Hari-sauri: Yes.
Prabhupada: I think the same climate here.
Hari-sauri: Yes, same as here.
Dhrstadyumna: There was a large swimming pool. Every afternoon all the...
Prabhupada: Yes, besides that, there is a swimming pool.
Dhrstadyumna: We would go out and have water fights.
Prabhupada: And they have kept five peacocks.
Hari-sauri: Seven.
Prabhupada: Seven. They are very free moving, here and there, and chanting.
Kirtanananda: They stay on the grounds?
Hari-sauri: They never leave the grounds. They sleep up in one tree.
Prabhupada: They are free to move from one tree to another, but they don't go outside. Only complaint they are eating flowers.
Dhrstadyumna: Yes, they are eating all the flowers.
Prabhupada: They are also trained, they are not afraid. They are sitting, you go, they are not afraid. They have been trained up that "We are at home." That animals and any birds can be trained. Just like these cows, they know that all of you are friends. Animals can understand. Even if you can make friends with the tigers and lions. Yes. I have seen it. In that New York exhibition, one man was showing me. He was embracing the lion and playing like dog. I've seen it.
Hari-sauri: That used to be a circus trick as well. They used to put their heads in the lion's mouth.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Dhrstadyumna: As long as the lion is well fed, you can put your head in his mouth, but if you don't feed him, then it is dangerous.
Prabhupada: Naturally, if he's animal. They can understand that he's giving you food, he's my friend. The love, friendship, everything is there, even in animals.
Devotee: Except God consciousness.
Prabhupada: That is possible in human life. But animal also can become God conscious by association.
Kirtanananda: Sometimes I've heard you say, Srila Prabhupada, that love only exists between similar categories.
Prabhupada: Similar categories, the love is very conducive. Otherwise, love is possible with any living entity. The central object of love is Krsna. That is Vrndavana. The animals love Krsna, the human beings love Krsna, the trees love Krsna, the water love Krsna, everyone loves Krsna-central point. That is the perfection of love. The Deity is kept in the same house?
Kirtanananda: But it is changed, the house is changed since you were there.
Prabhupada: Oh. Changed means?
Kirtanananda: The whole downstairs has been made into a big area.
Prabhupada: But I see the marble pillar?
Kirtanananda: Yeah, it has a marble altar.
Prabhupada: The same altar?
Kirtanananda: No, no.
Prabhupada: That is the beginning of New Vrindaban, yes. All right.
Devotees: Jaya Srila Prabhupada! (end)

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