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Room Conversation

July 26, 1976, London
Prabhupada: Here he is. Generally you are preaching here, preaching nice?
Prthu-putra: Oh, yes.
Prabhupada: You know French?
Prthu-putra: Yes, I am from France originally.
Prabhupada: So what is your new publication?
Bhagavan: So I have a big surprise.
Devotees: Whew! Wow! It's fabulous! Wow!
Prabhupada: Srimad-Bhagavatam.
Hari-sauri: This will make Ramesvara very envious.
Bhagavan: This is special. This is on all volumes.
Prabhupada: Oh, how many chapters?
Bhagavan: Up to chapter nine.
Prabhupada: Oh, First Canto.
Bhagavan: Half of First Canto.
Prabhupada: Yes, twenty. Radha-krsna-pranaya-vikrtir hladini...
krsne sva-dhamopagate
dharma-jnanadhibhih saha
kalau nasta-drsam esa
puranarko 'dhunoditah
How many copies you have printed?
Bhagavan: Twenty-five thousand.
Prabhupada: Already on sales? No.
Bhagavan: No, these are the first few.
Prabhupada: Oh, accha.
Bhagavan: There's a preface by a very famous professor. He has spoken very, very highly.
Prabhupada: Read. What does it say?
Prthu-putra: (translating) (sic:) "The classical induries(?) based on sacred scriptures from which the eighteen great Puranas has a central place. These vast poems, their character give theologic teaching is giving all the knowledge of the Veda, and in the substance of the Purana there is the face of the Indian populations. While reciting them in the temples and the preacher are giving commentaries in the assembly of devotees, which is called sankirtana. This teaching read to the chant and dancing on the glories of the Lord Bhagavan. Amongst all these Puranas, the most famous is the Bhagavata-Purana, called Srimad-Bhagavatam, because this literary form is achieved the most beautiful, and also because it's the poem which is expressing the best the doctrine of the faith that Sri Krsna is the Supreme Person, Purusottama, the principle of everything, the absolute unique without second, advaitam-brahman. Like in the Srimad Bhagavad-gita, the Lord reveals His majesty in plain. Much more than an avatara of Visnu, He appears in our eyes like the unique God. Towards Him all devotion is due. The French people are honored to have, from the beginning of the nineteenth century, to have the first edition of Bhagavata-Purana, but from long time already this work of the great Beurnuf"that's the man who translated Srimad-Bhagavatam in nineteenth century in French"is the reason why we have to thank very much the association, the International Society for Krishna Consciousness, to give us that very big text, one of the master book of the humanity. This book is very benefic, and with the translation of the Sanskrit there is a commentary, the majestical commentary, which is given verse after verse by the master, A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, founder of the association. As he did it with the Bhagavad-gita, which was published in French in 1975 with the preface of a Professor Harvi Delacombe, Swami Prabhupada explains word by word each mantra -stanza or sacred text-before to give a signification. Then the reader can judge every pieces, what is the meaning of the teaching of the master by confrontation with the text itself..."
Prabhupada: Yes.
Prthu-putra: "And there is also an index and some notes which are giving the work much more easy for the reader, even the profound. This teaching took its root in the teaching of Caitanya Mahaprabhu, that prophet of Krsna's. His preaching in Bengal in Orissa in sixteenth century is again appear deeper for the devotion to Bhagavan. Srila Prabhupada is descending in the disciplic succession, direct vamsa, from Caitanya Mahaprabhu and His first disciples, the famous Gosvamis. It is a considerable advantage for the French public to have these volumes where there is a vitality manifested from one of these past pantha, which are the most followed by the followers of the Hinduism. We hope that there is a large distribution of this tradition and commentary of the Bhagavata-Purana. Anyone who is interested in the life of India can find the authentic teaching, spiritual teaching authorized, and can also have access to one of the most beautiful religious poem from the Hindu tradition." This is the.... It's wonderful.
Prabhupada: Yes, very good.
Jayatirtha: What was his name?
Prthu-putra: Jean Vardin
Bhagavan: You met him several years ago, two years ago, when you were in France.
Prabhupada: Yes, I met one...
Bhagavan: He took all your books.
Prabhupada: Yes. So he likes our...
Bhagavan:. Oh, yes. We are very respected in the country.
Prabhupada: That's nice. You must keep our position. Yes.
Bhagavan: Big Bhagavad-gita, we have distributed fifty thousand.
Prabhupada: Oh. This is Bhagavad-gita.
Prabhupada: Bhagavatam.
Bhagavan: And big Bhagavad-gita, the big one, last year you saw.
Prabhupada: I can see.
Bhagavan: We distributed fifty thousand.
Prabhupada: Already distributed?
Bhagavan: Yes.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Bhagavan: And we printed that little Bhagavad-gita, remember? That we've distributed twenty-five thousand. So seventy-five thousand Bhagavad-gita one year.
Prabhupada: Very good.
Bhagavan: And this is twenty-five thousand. Krsna book, first half, will be ready on August 8th, twenty-five thousand also.
Prabhupada: First half...
Bhagavan: Would you like to see the design for the cover?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Bhagavan: This is...
Prabhupada: Oh.
Bhagavan: This will be Krsna book, 650 pages.
Jayatirtha: This will also be coming out?
Bhagavan: Yeah. This is just the press proof. It needs improvement.
Prabhupada: Fifty thousand?
Bhagavan: Twenty-five thousand. The translators have been working day and night for the last two weeks to get everything ready. They are now in Italy. We are printing this book in Italy.
Prabhupada: Oh. Cheaper?
Bhagavan: Very cheap. Very cheap. Including composition, the book cost $1.75.
Prabhupada: Oh, very cheap.
Bhagavan: Sixty-four color pictures.
Prabhupada: It is very nice.
Bhagavan: And Upadesamrta, that is coming out in one week, twenty-five thousand copies.
Prabhupada: Which book selling now?
Bhagavan: Which book are we selling right now? Gita, and we'll have a quantity of this in about three weeks, and then we'll begin selling Bhagavatam, and Isopanisad, Easy Journey, Back to Godhead.
Prabhupada: French language is understood practically all over Europe, especially France, Switzerland.
Bhagavan: Switzerland, Montreal, Belgium...
Prthu-putra: Luxembourg and Belgium also, they are French-speaking.
Bhagavan: And Africa. Much countries in Africa are French-speaking.
Prabhupada: Oh. You can sell in Mauritius.
Bhagavan: Yes. I send books to Mauritius.
Prabhupada: Yes. Everyone speaks French.
Bhagavan: Did you see the color printing inside? It's also very nice. They have done the same.... This was last year in Paris, when you received Bhagavad-gita.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Bhagavan: It's a nice picture. Everyone who sees it says how friendly Prabhupada is.
Hari-sauri: This one is downstairs. George Harrison immediately pointed to it and said, "Oh, that's a wonderful picture."
Prabhupada: Yes, it is Vaisnava picture. Vaisnava is always humble. (looking at picture) Jagannatha Puri.
Bhagavan: They are distributing these books for no less than ten dollars each.
Jayatirtha: Ten dollars each? Fifty francs.
Bhagavan: Fifty francs, ten dollars. This is Gaura-Nitai, New Mayapura.
Prabhupada: Baltimore?
Bhagavan: At the farm.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Jayatirtha: They are similar to the ones in Baltimore. I saw that picture. One boy from Baltimore just came here, Srutadeva.
Bhagavan: We have done this like in the English, with the explanation on this side.
Jayatirtha: C'est magnifique. (laughter)
Bhagavan: The color has come out nicely.
Prabhupada: Yes. They like pictures?
Bhagavan: Oh, yes.
Jayatirtha: The French are much different than the Germans.
Bhagavan: This on the back, this explains the end pages here, so people can see the whole picture, and the explanation is given here.
Hari-sauri: Will that be in every canto? Every book....
Bhagavan: Yeah.
Prabhupada: Read what he....
Bhagavan: This is another appreciation here. This is from a doctor in the University of Neuchatel. It's in Switzerland. He's a Swiss doctor.
Prthu-putra: (translating) "The Srimad-Bhagavatam is most known under the name of Bhagavata-Purana. The Sanskrit word Purana means 'ancient, old work.' It is a commentary on the Vedanta-sutra by Vyasadeva, its author, from which we also learn about the Mahabharata. From a general way, but particularly the Srimad-Bhagavatam, the Purana is a true encyclopedia containing all the aspects of the life of spirit. We have to see that this great work is containing all the predictions, this, of realizing in every detail. Then it is very important to point out that the Srimad-Bhagavatam under its poetic form is a very actual by the subject which it's treating about. The truth is one and universal, and the tradition of this work is always valuable. The Srimad-Bhagavatam is an essential development of the Bhagavad-gita. It's talking about the questions metaphysical, philosophical, religious, psychologic, political and social. The wonderful tradition of Swami Prabhupada is inspired from the same principles that the one who guided him in his translation of the Bhagavad-gita. Every Sanskrit verse is written in Latin characters and then a literary version. The commentary, which is referring always from the Veda, Upanisad, and other texts, is allowing the reader to make spiritual progress. The Srimad-Bhagavatam is a precious work and will be revealed for a lot of people from the Western. And there is a very urgent need to spread this message throughout the world."
Jayatirtha: Ah! It's a very good decision.
Bhagavan: Doctor of letters.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hari-sauri: These European scholars are very appreciative of your books.
Bhagavan: Every book comes with these bookmarks.
Prabhupada: Oh, bookmark. So, it is another step forward. (laughs) Prthivite ache yata nagaradi-grama.
Bhagavan: The sankirtana devotees, they are distributing always in dhoti.
Prabhupada: Like him.
Bhagavan: They do not wear the karmi clothes.
Prabhupada: Just see.
Bhagavan: And they are having nice success also. They go into the offices, into the.... They are walking everywhere. Even the hospitals they are going.
Prabhupada: There is no obstruction.
Bhagavan: No. (laughs) They are very determined.
Jayatirtha: In France the atmosphere is very nice.
Prabhupada: So why your cloth is so dirty?
Prthu-putra: I just traveled with him.
Prabhupada: For a sannyasi it is very nice. So people may not dislike it, but for a sannyasi this is very nice.
Bhagavan: He's doing very nicely, Prthu-putra. He's having many preaching engagements.
Prabhupada: Very good. That is wanted. Srimad-Bhagavatam amalam puranam. So when the whole lot will be delivered?
Bhagavan: End of August.
Prabhupada: End of August? Oh.
Bhagavan: Twenty-five thousand. And same, Krsna book also, twenty-five thousand.
Prabhupada: Yes, this cover is wonderful.
Jayatirtha: Very beautiful.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Jayatirtha: In France especially they will appreciate it, so ornate.
Prabhupada: Same size?
Bhagavan: Same size, same thickness, all the same as the Gita. It's a whole library of books.
Hari-sauri: You doing a color scheme on the different color for each canto?
Bhagavan: Maybe not, maybe keep the same.
Prabhupada: There will be three parts or two?
Bhagavan: Two parts.
Prabhupada: So give Bhagavan prabhu nice prasadam. Our, the devotees only eat prasadam.
Bhagavan: My prasada was sitting here. I'm sorry to hear that you are so sick. You are sick.
Prabhupada: Yes. Should have, cough, to stop.(?) The coughing is continuing and practically no appetite, and palpitation of heart. Going up the step is.... So how under this condition I can travel? It is not...
Bhagavan: Very difficult
Prabhupada: Yes. When you came back from India?
Prthu-putra: Three months ago.
Prabhupada: From Vrndavana?
Prthu-putra: From Bombay. I was last in Bombay.
Bhagavan: You have been like this for some time?
Prabhupada: It has begun from New York, eh?
Hari-sauri: Yeah, you had kidney trouble in New York, and then immediately after that, coughing and.... When we came on the plane it grew worse.
Prabhupada: One doctor came, he gave me three bags of tablets.
Hari-sauri: He wanted to give you five. He gave us five different prescriptions.
Prabhupada: I did not take anything, tablet. Rather, what one I was taking, I have stopped that also.
Jayatirtha: You do not put very much faith in these doctors.
Prabhupada: What this medicine will help?
Hari-sauri: Most of the medicine he gave was to dull your senses so much that you wouldn't feel any pain, or would make you sleep for six hours at a time or, like this.
Prabhupada: So in the village how many devotees are there?
Bhagavan: At the farm? Almost two hundred.
Prabhupada: Oh, very good.
Bhagavan: They are waiting for you. (laughs)
Prabhupada: Yes, they must be waiting. So farming is going? Farming?
Bhagavan: Oh, yes, we've just harvested barley and oats, big harvest, and the farm is supplying beans, cauliflower right now, and tomatoes. They have planted three thousand tomato plants, and all the farmers, they are asking how we have done.
Prabhupada: And milk?
Bhagavan: We have not bought many cows yet. We will.
Prabhupada: No, no milk at all? No cows?
Bhagavan: Oh, yes, we have five cows, six cows.
Prabhupada: So getting milk.
Bhagavan: Yes.
Prabhupada: They have got large quantity of milk in Philadelphia.
Jayatirtha: Oh, yes, very good cows there. They bought the best cows, first-class cows.
Prabhupada: They have got tank, one-fourth of this room.
Bhagavan: In New Vrindaban?
Jayatirtha: No, in Philadelphia, New Barsana. First-class farm.
Prabhupada: They have very well managed. And everyone is eating very nicely. (laughter) Similarly in New Vrindaban. What is the.... I want this, that you have sufficient grain, sufficient milk, then where is your economic question? And from milk, by intelligence you can get so many preparation-luci, puri, halava, rasagulla, sandesh, rabri, wonderful.
Bhagavan: There is one boy, one of our sankirtana devotees, who previously was a farmer. His father has given him a farm in the north of France. So recently he has given us his whole crop of hay for the cows. The value of that was thirty thousand dollars. It's enough hay to supply twenty-five or thirty cows for two years, and on top of that he's able to get a loan from the bank of forty-five thousand dollars for twenty years at four percent.
Prabhupada: To be repaid.
Bhagavan: Yes. But this he can use to purchase cows and build barn.
Prabhupada: Only four percent. How their bank is giving so cheap?
Bhagavan: Because he's a farmer. They're helping...
Prabhupada: Oh, farmers...
Jayatirtha: Special concession for farmers to help farm.
Prabhupada: That means government encouraging farming.
Bhagavan: Yes.
Jayatirtha: Because no one wants to farm anymore these days. I heard that, especially in France.
Prthu-putra: Yes, especially in France.
Bhagavan: We have also paid our loan to Los Angeles. One month ago I paid seventeen thousand dollars.
Prabhupada: So you, you can take back loan.
Bhagavan: I was holding it for him, but then he said he didn't need it right away, so I sent it to Los Angeles.
Jayatirtha: We hadn't determined what building.
Prabhupada: So you have.... That building you should purchase.
Jayatirtha: Yes, now I'll get the money.
Prabhupada: You have got twenty thousand, and he has already paid seventeen thousand, so I think you can collect fifty thousand immediately. If you want, I can give you also four, five thousand, not less.
Jayatirtha: Yes, that money in the Lloyd's Bank account? Yes, we will give you better interest than the bank.
Prabhupada: Good. No, now we are book selling nicely. I think our settlement.... (?) Krsna has arranged everything cautiously and not extravagantly. You go on. Everything will be all right. There will be no scarcity. Yavad-artha-prayojanam. Our parents taught us, mother, if there was a grain of rice on the ground and it is touched with feet, "Oh, you take it." We were taught like that.
Jayatirtha: Nothing should be wasted.
Prabhupada: Krsna has sent you His grain. You cannot waste it. This is Krsna consciousness. Live that way. And Krsna is providing so much facilities for becoming Krsna conscious, and why should we deviate and spoil this life, take the risk of again going into the cycle of birth and death? Commonsense affair. We have got the good, greatest opportunity to solve this problem of repetition of birth. Tyaktva deham punar janma naiti mam eti [Bg. 4.9]. And only for little sense gratification we are going to sacrifice so great opportunity of life? This much education is wanted. Na sadhu manye yata atmano 'yam. Eh? Find out the verse, Fifth Canto. Fifth Canto, Fifth Chapter. Na sadhu manye yata atmano 'yam asann api klesada asa dehah. Nunam pramattah kurute vikarma yad indriya-pritaya aprnoti [SB 5.5.4]. Very bad civilization. Mad civilization, pramattah. Simply for little sense gratification they are prepared to take so much risk. Next life you may become cat, dog or a small grass or a tree by laws of nature. So nunam pramattah. Is it Fifth Canto?
Bhagavan: Rsabhadeva.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Bhagavan: Instruction to His sons.
Hari-sauri: What was that? Yasya?
Prabhupada: Eh? Nunam pramattah.
Hari-sauri: Nonam.
Prabhupada: N-u-n-a-m.
Jayatirtha: Nunam pramattah kurute vikarma [SB 5.5.4]. Right one?
Prabhupada: Yes.
yad indriya-pritaya aprnoti
na sadhu manye yata atmano 'yam
asann api klesada asa dehah
[SB 5.5.4]
"When a person considers sense gratification the aim of life, he certainly becomes mad after materialistic living and engages in all kinds of sinful activity. He does not know that due to his past misdeeds he has already received a body which, although temporary, is the cause of his misery. Actually the living entity should not have taken on a material body, but he has been awarded the material body for sense gratification. Therefore I think that it is not befitting an intelligent man to involve himself again in the activities of sense gratification, by which he perpetually gets material bodies one after another." Purport? "Begging, borrowing and stealing to live for sense gratification is condemned in this verse because such consciousness leads one to a dark, hellish condition. The four sinful activities are illicit sex, meat-eating, intoxication and gambling. These are the means by which one gets another material body that is full of miseries."
Prabhupada: They do not know. When you can say, they'll think, "What these people are talking?" They are so dull-brained. They cannot understand anything. We are taking it, immediately accepted. It is so serious. And you, on the general public, if you speak? "All nonsense they are speaking." Dull brain. By eating meat and intoxication they have lost their all human brain tissues. Such a condition. Still, some professors receiving and doing some applause. That is. Otherwise who is understanding? The brain is so dull in the modern world.
Jayatirtha: It's called a vicious cycle. Because the brain is so dull, therefore they can't understand how to stop performing these activities; and because they don't stop performing these activities, therefore the brain remains dull. In this way they are caught up.
Prabhupada: No, pramattah, that we can see, pramattah, mad. And everyone, especially in the Western country, so many madmen. The hippies, their whole sect-mad. Pramattah. Then so-called businessmen, so-called scientist, so-called philosophereveryone is mad. And kurute vikarma, all sinful activities, especially the slaughterhouse, horrible. Everyone is taking share of these sinful activities. They're fighting amongst themselves, this party, that party, communist party, fascist party, then barking in the United Nation and so on, so on. All mad. At least we must know it. Or we are talking nonsense; they are all right. What is your conviction?
Bhagavan: We are seeing that more and more we are having to preach to younger and younger people.
Prabhupada: Those who are innocent.
Bhagavan: Yes. In the colleges even it is very difficult.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Bhagavan: In the colleges now. Before, it was not so difficult. Now they are becoming...
Prabhupada: Spoiled, all spoiled. All spoiled.
Bhagavan: Now many devotees are younger, sixteen, seventeen years old, not so spoiled.
Prabhupada: Yes. Therefore Prahlada Maharaja said, kaumara acaret prajno dharman bhagavatan iha: [SB 7.6.1] "From the very beginning." How they are spoiling the opportunity in the whole educational system, social system, political system. Let us do our duty. What can be done? Is there any purport?
Jayatirtha: Yes, I read part of it. I'll go on. "In the Vedas it is said, asango hy ayam purusah. The living entity is not really connected with this material world, but due to his tendency to enjoy the material senses, he is put into the material condition. One should perfect his life by associating with devotees. He should not become further implicated in the material body."
Prabhupada: Therefore Krsna consciousness, that "Stop further implication." Nunam pramattah kurute vikarma [SB 5.5.4]. What is the next verse?
Jayatirtha: Parabhavas tavad abodha-jato.
Prabhupada: Parabhavas tavad abodha-jato.
Jayatirtha Prabhupada: Yavan na jijnasata atma-tattvam...
Jayatirtha: Yavat kriyas tavad idam mano vai karmatmakam yena sarira-bandhah
Prabhupada: So long one will remain a karmi, he'll get body. And what body? There is no guarantee. That will depend on your karma. But you'll get a body. So read it. It is very important. Again.
Jayatirtha: "As long as one does not inquire about the spiritual values of life, one is defeated and subjected to miseries arising from ignorance."
Prabhupada: Everything, whatever he's doingthe so-called nonsense advancement of civilization is defeat, simply defeat. What is your advancement? You are completely under the control of the laws of material nature. What is your progress? So yavan na jijnasata atma-tattvam. Only this hodgepodge. They are wasting so much time going to the Mars, spending so much money. But there is no inquiry, atma-tattvam: "What I am? What is my goal of life?"
Bhagavan: They are zero.
Prabhupada: Such zero. Apasyatam atma-tattvam grhesu grha-medhinam [SB 2.1.2]. Atma-tattva, there is no...
Bhagavan: They are thinking that they have become advanced because they have become atheists. They have let religion go. They say that religion was a...
Prabhupada: But what you have gained out of it, rascal? Now, there is no water. Bring water and become atheist. Why do you see: "When there will be water?" Bring water by scientific method. Why you are looking on the sky: "Whether there is any cloud."
Hari-sauri: Set up a drought committee.
Prabhupada: They have done?
Bhagavan: In France there was a big drought, terrible drought. Many animals died. So the president of the country made a speech, and all he could say in his speech was that people should try to use less water. (laughter)
Prabhupada: Oh. There was another caricature, India. So there was some drought, the same. So there was some, what is called, representation: "And there is no water. We are suffering. This is the difficulty." "Yes, we are taking step, but next week you'll have television." Advancement, television. Because there was no television, so this is the advancement. Next week they have television. As if television will solve the problem. All mudhas, rascals, are very horrible condition. Chant Hare Krsna. There is no other.
Jayatirtha: Tamala Krsna once published an article in the Back to Godhead. The title was "You Cannot Eat Nuts and Bolts."
Prabhupada: Yes.
Jayatirtha: It was very nice.
Prabhupada: That is my word. (laughter)
Jayatirtha: We always take everything from you, and then we take the credit.
Prabhupada: Nuts and bolts, tire tube, gas, this, that.... Where is food? (laughter) "So just kill the animals. That's all. You'll get food." And how long you'll go on? The animals will.... And no more animals die? Then what they'll do? Animal, after all, they live on grains and grass, but one set or two set or three set you can kill and eat. The next...? Then you have to eat dry grass. It is a wrong civilization. Duskrtina. There is no water. They are flying to the Mars planet. What is the Mars planet news? Any news?
Jayatirtha: What is the latest news from the Mars planet, do you know?
Bhagavan: Mars planet. No. They are taking samples of the soil.
Prabhupada: That's all. Same story.
Bhagavan: In the moon, when they finished, after they concluded there was no life, they dropped a bomb.
Jayatirtha: Dropped a bomb?
Bhagavan: Yes, they made an explosion, just to see what would happen.
Prabhupada: You can drop many bombs in the Sahara desert. Who cares? Who cares for that? (laughter)
Jayatirtha: Prabhupada said they were actually in Arizona. This Mars capsule has landed in Arizona.
Prabhupada: Yes. Why bomb? "Grapes are sour."
Bhagavan: To measure something.
Prabhupada: Whatever they measure, they are useless. What they'll gain by dropping a bomb?
Jayatirtha: Just another foolishness.
Prabhupada: But nobody is questioning that "Why you are wasting money in this way? You have already failure, the moon planet."
Bhagavan: They are hoping against hope. That is all they have. [break]
Prabhupada: Let us not be discouraged. Let us go on with our studies, activities, Krsna consciousness.
Bhagavan: Seeing their foolishness makes one more convinced; it does not discourage.
Prabhupada: Yes. This failure was assured ten years ago by me.
Jayatirtha: Yes, you predicted it.
Prabhupada: Yes, but still, I am saying, "This will be all failure." And still, they are hopeful. My Guru Maharaja is very pleased. As soon as a book comes out, he is pleased.
Jayatirtha: Especially one so beautiful.
Prabhupada: He was lamenting that "These men, they did not make, publish any number of books. They are simply after this stone and bricks." He condemned. He was very, very sorry. So I thought that I must take a risk. And he's pleased.
Bhagavan: So now you have books and temples.
Prabhupada: Yes, temple is automatically.
Jayatirtha: Without fighting, you've got so many temples.
Prabhupada: No, I never stressed on temple. I was engaged in publishing the Back to Godhead. Whatever I could do, I did it because I took it very seriously that he is very sorry that these things were not done. He said that "There will be fire in this Gaudiya Math." Agun jvalbe, he said. Amari taci loka kichui boi kakrayebo (?): "If I can, I shall sell these marbles of this temple and convert them into books." That was his ambition. He started a very nice press and this Tirtha Maharaja sold it.
Jayatirtha: Sold it?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Bhagavan: The press.
Prabhupada: He's not representing Guru.... "Better let's have money for fight in the court."
Jayatirtha: Sometimes I'm sorry that my name also has this word in it.
Prabhupada: You are Jaya-tirtha. You are victorious. Now whatever is being done, it is by his blessing. Let us work sincerely. Things will be all.... Otherwise it is humanly impossible. It is by his grace.
Jayatirtha: George was also commenting on that, how one man could have written so many books.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Jayatirtha: He could not even read them all, what to speak of writing them all.
Mukam karoti vacalam: "A dumb is a great orator." Mukam karoti vacalam. Pangum langhayate girim: "The lame man, lame man is jumping over the mountain." Mukam karoti vacalam pangum langhayate girim. Yat-krpa: "By the mercy of guru it is possible." So let us cooperate and do this business. Higher authority will be pleased, and that is our success. Yasya prasadad bhagavat-prasadah **. If the higher authorities are pleased, then Krsna is pleased. That is our success. What about that French professor who has written an elaborate review?
Hari-sauri: The one that mentions about Aurobindo...
Bhagavan: I sent you this summer.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Bhagavan: Those two...
Hari-sauri: Yes, Prabhupada's just asking about him.
Bhagavan: Oh, yes, he's waiting to see you.
Prabhupada: Invite him to come to India.
Jayatirtha: Jaya.
Prabhupada: He likes me.
Bhagavan: Oh, yes.
Prabhupada: He has studied very nicely. Otherwise how he could catch Aurobindo, a doctor of...? In a scholarly way he has attacked him.
Bhagavan: Do you have that in English? I gave you in English.
Hari-sauri: Yes, he got that one. It's in the files.
Prabhupada: Apramana.(?) Actually, what is this? My Guru Maharaja: "He's a bokaloka." My Guru Maharaja used to say all these men, "All rascals." I was at that time coming him(?). But he said, all, "Everyone rascals." He told me, "Rabindranath Tagore and..., bokaloka."
Hari-sauri: What's the exact meaning of that word?
Prabhupada: Bokaloka means just like a foolish boy. Bokaloka.
Bhagavan: Childish.
Prabhupada: Childish, with no sense. Actually that is the fact. All these rascals, they have no sense. Simply they bluff because they have no real knowledge. Mayayapahrta-jnanah. That's a fact. If one, anyone, does not know Krsna, then he's a boka-loka. Immediately take it for granted, bokaloka. They take that we are very sectarian, but that is a fact.
Bhagavan: Our philosophy is that everyone else is wrong.
Prabhupada: May be true to some extent, but they do not know the ultimate truth. That they do not know. Bahunam janmanam ante jnanavan [Bg. 7.19]. He understands, vasudevah sarvam iti sa mahatma sudurlabhah [Bg. 7.19]. That requires many, many births, to come to that conclusion. Vedais ca sarvair aham eva vedyah [Bg. 15.15]. This Krsna says. Mattah parataram nanyat kincid asti dhananjaya: [Bg. 7.7] "There is no more superior than Me." Aham sarvasya prabhavo mattah sarvam pravartate [Bg. 10.8]. He explains to everyone, sarva-dharman parityajya mam ekam [Bg. 18.66]. That is the.... There is the ultimate person. You call Him Krsna or something, but you must know Him. Isvarah paramah, there must be. Father's father's father's father's father's.... Who is the original father? There must be. Where is the wrong in this statement? So you find out the supreme father, but He has no father; He is the Absolute. Sarva-karana.... Anadir adih: "He has no beginning, but He is the beginning." Anadir adir govindah sarva-karana-karanam [Bs. 5.1]. So, Bhagavan may carry one letter that "I am very sorry. On account of my health failure, I could not go to see you, that professor and all devotees, and I am very, very sorry for this, but, I humbly invite you, come to India, and we shall be very glad to sit together," like that.
Jayatirtha: I'm sure they'll all understand.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Bhagavan: You're planning to leave Wednesday?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Bhagavan: Maybe you'll be better tomorrow.
Prabhupada: Tomorrow?
Bhagavan: Maybe you will be better.
Prabhupada: No, that is happening. Sometimes I feel all right.
Hari-sauri: But then as soon as Prabhupada does any activity, he immediately becomes exhausted, just to go downstairs.
Prabhupada: Yesterday evening I was thinking, "Now I am feeling all right. Tomorrow I shall go for morning walk," like that. (laughs) That is due to my practice. So the palace is prepared now?
Bhagavan: First class. I think your quarters are the best. Very confortable. Your bathroom is all redone. You have a nice separate bedroom, separate bathroom, and a very nice, almost this big. It is very sunny.
Prabhupada: Sunny.
Bhagavan: Very sunny. All day long the sun.
Prabhupada: It is alluring. (laughter)
Jayatirtha: Yes, Bhagavan is trying to allure you, I think.
Bhagavan: And we are having Deity installation also. The Krsna-Balarama Deity is there. They're very beautiful, extremely. And we have a new Vyasasana. I had it made in Italy with all marble, temple. Anyway...
Jayatirtha: You can send him pictures in India. I was going to ask you, Srila Prabhupada. If I wanted to install Gaura-Nitai Deities also, like the ones in Baltimore and this farm, here also, along with the Radha-Krsna Deities, without two altars...
Prabhupada: Here?
Jayatirtha: Yes. Whether or not that's all right.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Jayatirtha: The devotees very much like to worship Gaura-Nitai along with Radha-Krsna.
Bhagavan: You are wanting sun?
Prabhupada: Yes, sun.
Hari-sauri: No problems.
Jayatirtha: No stairs.
Hari-sauri: No stairs.
Prabhupada: No, stairs, I may not come down.
Jayatirtha: That's the problem. Once he's up, he can't come down.
Prabhupada: No.
Jayatirtha: That means he can't go outside.
Prabhupada: I.... Come down is not so very difficult.
Bhagavan: We have already a palanquin to carry you up.
Prthu-putra: We have elevator also, no?
Bhagavan: Yes, we have elevator there also.
Hari-sauri: Is it working?
Bhagavan: Well, it's being fixed right now, but if I.... But we have a palanquin to carry up the stairs. It's actually warm there, very warm during the day, and your room is extremely warm because the sun crosses it all day long, and there won't be anybody to bother you. All the devotees are out of the castle. They're all in little houses all around. And it's so big that you won't feel cramped.
Prabhupada: So I shall feel hungry also?
Bhagavan: Hungry? No, you ate good there last year. You ate very well there last year.
Prabhupada: No, I like it. It is very nice place.
Prthu-putra: The air is good too.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Prthu-putra: The air, the atmosphere, is good.
Bhagavan: I don't know. I was thinking the trip.... We have that big Mercedes limousine. You rode in it last year. It was very comfortable, and the ride, I don't think you found it so difficult, did you? Last year.
Prabhupada: No.
Jayatirtha: This year, by the time he got to Bury Place, he was completely exhausted, Bhagavan. Half an hour's drive.
Prabhupada: That due to the staircase.
Jayatirtha: But by the time you sat on the Vyasasana there you were already looking very tired, what to speak of...
Bhagavan: Paris has elevator.
Prabhupada: Paris, I know, that I have told.
Jayatirtha: (laughs) He told me that when we got to the top of the stairs in Bury Place. He said, "In Paris there is a lift."
Prabhupada: Ah, yes.
Jayatirtha: In all respects Paris is superior. (laughs)
Bhagavan: I was just thinking that if you wanted warm weather, it's very warm during the day, and the air is very clean. It's not so dusty.
Prabhupada: No, in the village there must be.
Bhagavan: The trouble is if you get sick along the way.
Jayatirtha: On the way back from the airport we had to stop twice.
Bhagavan: Anyway, that trip to India is also long, eight hours. It's also long.
Hari-sauri: Thing is Prabhupada is thinking that if he has to go to India anyway, so he may as well go straight there.
Bhagavan: The thing is you may be bothered in India. There are so many people who come, even though you say no. Even though you say no, there's always people.
Prabhupada: No, the present problem is that I cannot go out.
Bhagavan: So that we have.... We have nice palanquin. Remember when you came two years ago, we had a palanquin and we carried you?
Prthu-putra: In this engagement, in the Philosophical (?) Society.
Bhagavan: You spoke at one society, and we carried you up a long stair in a very comfortable palanquin.
Prabhupada: Where?
Bhagavan: In Paris. You gave an engagement at the top of a very big building, and there was no lift, so we built a palanquin and we carried you.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Bhagavan: So that...
Prabhupada: That library, something?
Bhagavan: Yes.
Hari-sauri: The other thing is, though, that if you go to Paris, then it means you have to go up the steps to get into the airplane, not just in Paris.... At least in London you have to, and then again you have to do it in Paris, and then again you'll have to do it in Tehran.
Bhagavan: Yes, but he doesn't have to.... He can stay there for a while. He doesn't have to go to Tehran.
Hari-sauri: No, you can't fly direct to India from Paris.
Jayatirtha: He has to stop somewhere along the way. Otherwise...
Bhagavan: We're hoping he'll rapidly recover.
Jayatirtha: Well, Srila Prabhupada is not expecting it at this point. Of course, we're all praying for it.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Jayatirtha: I said we're all praying for your rapid recovery, but whether or not...
Prabhupada: So why you did not come yesterday?
Bhagavan: I was putting together your Vyasasana. (laughs) All night long I stayed up. Also our printer from Italy, he is wanting to present you with the Krsna book. He has had his men working seven days a week, composing. They are composing. It is going to be a very nice book. We had one article in the paper. We went to a book fair, and thousands of publishers.... So the article they wrote on us was that "The association for Krsna consciousness produces luxurious books."
Prabhupada: Why not? Our Krsna is most luxurious person. He is never poverty-stricken. Always with gopis, cowherd boys, killing all demons.
Jayatirtha: Harikesa Maharaja and I were discussing last night about your travel plans, and we were debating on what was actually the best place for you to go. So someone was saying Tehran, someone was saying Paris farm, like this, but the point that came out was that as far as health is concerned, India is not the best place for you to go at all.
Prabhupada: India.
Jayatirtha: Not the best place. However, the main point is that you want to go there. That was what was felt by the devotees who were discussing, that you want to go to India immediately and that you will feel more comfortable by going to India immediately. That was what was being discussed. Although for health purposes that may not actually be the best.
Hari-sauri: For us India is not very healthy. But for Prabhupada it's the best place.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Hari-sauri: I said for us India is not so healthy, but for yourself it's the best place.
Bhagavan: Prabhupada also got sick in India. Remember? Two years ago in Vrndavana.
Prabhupada: Vrndavana.
Jayatirtha: Exactly this time, two years ago.
Bhagavan: Anyway, I think the stair problem is not such a big problem.
Jayatirtha: No, that is not an insurmountable problem.
Bhagavan: There are three hundred devotees who want to carry you. But I mean there you will not have people coming if you want to rest. There are no.... There are only planned people who would come. But there won't be hundreds of Indians coming to see you. And you have.... Right next to your quarters there's your own private kitchen also, so everything's very close at hand. All your servants quarters are.... That whole floor is.... Actually the whole castle is empty, so there's no noise.
Jayatirtha: It may be very nice for you there.
Bhagavan: Your quarters.
Prabhupada: We shall go immediately?
Jayatirtha: I think that, Srila Prabhupada, you should not feel obliged in any way to go. Only whatever you think is best for your health condition.
Prabhupada: No, obliged, I am always obliged to you. That's a fact. Yes.
Jayatirtha: We are only obliged to you. That's a fact. That is the actual fact. It must be decided, though, what you think is best for your health situation.
Prabhupada: Whatever you decide.
Bhagavan: Prabhupada, the only thing I'm just a little concerned is just if you have difficulty in the car. But if that won't be too difficult, I really think that this is ideal. Your quarters are really first class, extremely wonderful. And the only other thing is at night it's cool, but that's not so bad either.
Prabhupada: No, at night cool will be good.
Bhagavan: And in the morning it is warm at ten o'clock.
Prabhupada: So kitchen is (indistinct).
Bhagavan: Yes. You have a cook here? Your temple was cooking?
Jayatirtha: No, Arundhati is cooking. I think Palika should come? Palika should not come for cooking?
Prabhupada: She has come?
Jayatirtha: Should she not come? She wants to come.
Bhagavan: There are so many cooks. Malati is there, and we have.... You've never had problem with cooking in France before.
Hari-sauri: Harikesa can cook also.
Bhagavan: We all think, though, that whenever you are feeling sick and you go to India, there's always so many people who see you anyway. I remember when you were sick in Vrndavana and Brahmananda and I were there. Even though you were sick, at least fifteen people saw you every day, coming in and out constantly, and then you had to sit up.
Jayatirtha: Actually all of us agreed yesterday when we were discussing it that as far as health purposes is concerned, we do not think it is a good idea for you to go to India immediately.
Hari-sauri: We argued for a half hour against going to India, but in the end, you decided that you wanted to go to Bombay immediately.
Bhagavan: But I mean, if you have to risk that eight-hour plane ride, that's much more difficult than going to the farm. The farm is only three hours in a comfortable car.
Hari-sauri: It's not just that. It's the problem that you have to fly from France to somewhere else and then from somewhere else back to India. I said the main problem is that if you do go to France, then it means a great deal more traveling than would be involved in simply flying to India, because you'd have to travel back and forth to the Paris farm. Then you would also have to stay in Tehran, up and down like that in the plane, and then again fly to Bombay.
Bhagavan: But he doesn't have to stay in the farm for just nine days. He can stay there for long time.
Prabhupada: If the health suits, I can stay there. If the health improves, I can stay.
Prthu-putra: Air India is direct from Geneva.
Prabhupada: I shall not stay...
Prthu-putra: I came back from Bombay to Geneva by direct plane.
Prabhupada: Yes, there is plane.
Prthu-putra: I didn't have to stop in Tehran, and Geneva is very near.
Bhagavan: I think you can recover there. The atmosphere is so nice.
Prthu-putra: From the farm Geneva is the same distance than to Paris.
Bhagavan: I mean, more or less whenever you get sick everyone thinks that India is not really the best place, because you're always obliged to so many people. Whether you are feeling like it or not, they always come in the room.
Jayatirtha: And they are generally.... I know this, that these.... I like Indian people, but these Indian people are not very conscious of your position. They think that you're just another guru. Many of them do. Of course, some of them appreciate you.
Prabhupada: Indian mentality is that "If we see one saintly person and offer obeisances, we get some blessing for our material..."
Hari-sauri: They're very selfish.
Jayatirtha: In this way, I don't think they really appreciate your...
Prabhupada: Asirvada, asirvada.
Jayatirtha: Last night, one man came with his family. They wanted to have your darsana. I said, "Prabhupada is in bed. He's resting." He was insisting, he said, "I do not want to hear him speak, I simply want to see him." I said, "He's in bed. You can't go into his bedroom. How is it possible?" "No, that is all right. I will just go in, and I will see him." (laughter) I said, "What is this? Get out."
Hari-sauri: I remember when we left Bombay, you'd been giving darsana for four and a half hours on the roof.
Prabhupada: What is the water there?
Bhagavan: Oh, yes, we have our own water.
Prabhupada: Creek water?
Bhagavan: Underground. It's very nice. Very tasty and light. It's not heavy water.
Jayatirtha: It's a fact that on the whole, this farm is a wonderful place. I was there a couple of times. I very much liked it.
Prabhupada: Spring water?
Bhagavan: Yes.
Prabhupada: All right, let us go.
Hari-sauri: Tomorrow?
Prabhupada: Any time.
Hari-sauri: As soon as we can book a flight.
Bhagavan: We can arrange things.
Jayatirtha: Bhagavan, we should.... Couldn't we somehow arrange it so that Prabhupada doesn't have to go through the heavy traffic to the airport?
Hari-sauri: We'll have to see what time they're flying.
Jayatirtha: Every hour. All right, so you're sure that this is...
Prabhupada: No, I want some nice water, digestive. Let us see there.
Jayatirtha: Here the water is not good?
Prabhupada: No, no, I don't say it is not good, but...
Bhagavan: This is our own water; it's not city water with so many chemicals in it.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Jayatirtha: What about that bottle water, mineral water?
Bhagavan: He can have that too.
Prabhupada: No, I know.
Prthu-putra: France is the best place for mineral water.
Jayatirtha: In France they have many very nice waters.
Prabhupada: Mineral water.
Bhagavan: Prabhupada knows. He used to sell Vichy water.
Prabhupada: Vichy water. But I don't like. Bottled water I don't like.
Bhagavan: No, we have fresh water all the time. And you have hot water in bathroom.
Jayatirtha: I knew Bhagavan would come, and this would happen.
Prabhupada: Eh?
Jayatirtha: I never thought that you would go to India. I knew that Bhagavan would come and you would go to Paris. (laughs)
Prabhupada: No, if I improve my health, I shall stay there for some time.
Jayatirtha: Actually, it's a fact that you...
Prabhupada: Everywhere is my home. Not that India.... If I am attached to India, then how I am sannyasi? (laughter)
Bhagavan: And every other day I will give you a new book. (laughter)
Prabhupada: Where is?
Hari-sauri: You have to keep it, too, when you promise.
Prabhupada: All right.
Bhagavan: So we can plan that. Thank you very much, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Hare Krsna.
Devotees: All glories to Srila Prabhupada. [break]
Prabhupada: Western people, they are not only fool but misbehaved. Pascime loka saba mudha anarya.
Hari-sauri: And the further West you go, the worse they become.
Prabhupada: In India, from Bengal you go Western side. They are very filthy. And go more, more, more Western-filthy, filthy, filthy, filthy.
Harikesa: Pakistan is the worst. Karachi, I heard, is the worst city in the world almost.
Prabhupada: Srimad-bhagavatam amalam puranam.
Harikesa: These books are exquisite. The books they make in France are just marvelous.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Harikesa: It was printed in Italy, I think, but this here is so nice.
Prabhupada: Yes, embossed. I think our other books are not like that.
Harikesa: Of course, in France this is very much appreciated because the people are like that.
Prabhupada: Fancy.
Harikesa: Yes.
Hari-sauri: There's big competition now between our French and Spanish and English, between our publishing, French, Spanish and English. They are always competing. And the Germans also.
Harikesa: I think the French are on top though.
Hari-sauri: Their French Bhagavad-gita, the French one, when it came out, it's so much better than any other version we've had. Every time they bring a new book out, it seems to be an advancement on everything else.
Harikesa: Yogesvara is very...
Prabhupada: Oh, he is very expert, very enthusiastic. His wife is...
Harikesa: Very nice.
Hari-sauri: They included a number of photos also. In the picture sections they've headed each section with a photo. There's one of Vrndavana temple. They have a photo of your room in Radha-Damodara.
Prabhupada: Oh! Where it is?
Hari-sauri: In one of the sections here.
Harikesa: I have to go in and do some more.... [break]
Prabhupada: Right in here.
Hari-sauri: Through that window you could see Rupa Gosvami's samadhi. And for those two rooms they were charging five rupees a month?
Prabhupada: Yes. These rooms were broken. So they told me that "You can repair these, and whatever you like, you can give." So I thought, "Don't need much space." "Pay me if..." I know, before me there was a tenant in that other room. He was paying three rupees. So I thought, "Two rooms, but I have spent money. So I'll give him five." Now I am giving them ten rupees.
Hari-sauri: To retain it.
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hari-sauri: Sometimes the devotees go down there and clean out the rooms, and they have kirtana there sometimes. I think this is the first book that someone included this photo.
Prabhupada: Yes. It was very calm and quiet. And people used to offer obeisances from outside because they knew. Practically everyone knew me. So they used to offer...
Hari-sauri: You were very well known in Vrndavana before you came?
Prabhupada: Not very well known, but people knew me.
Hari-sauri: Because you were writing or...?
Prabhupada: Yes.
Hari-sauri: Or because of your ambition to come to the West?
Prabhupada: No, at that time there was no such thing. I was living there, retired man.
Hari-sauri: So when you went to Vrndavana, you'd given up the idea of coming to the West or...?
Prabhupada: No, coming to the West, the idea was there, but I was planning how to go.
Hari-sauri: Oh, nothing concrete was there.
Prabhupada: So that idea was there, but how to go there, how to preach there, how to take some books, how to bring them, everything alone...
Hari-sauri: So as soon as you had some books, then you were...
Prabhupada: Yes. Then I decided. Everything was being dictated by superior.
Hari-sauri: I was told that one day you were told by Rupa Gosvami that you must go.
Prabhupada: But that was open secret. Everyone knew. This antique photo is very dull.
Hari-sauri: Yes.
Prabhupada: Where this photo was?
Hari-sauri: I don't know. (end)

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