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Room Conversation

February 6, 1974, Vrndavana
Prabhupada: My Godbrother's son-in-law, they came (indistinct).
Guru dasa: Any service for me?
Prabhupada: What you are doing there now?
Guru dasa: Um, I've just been talking with Saurabha about the Mayapur plans to present at this conference in Vancouver, Exposition. We're making a presentation there.
Prabhupada: Oh.
Guru dasa: So we're getting that together. Tomorrow I'm leaving.
Prabhupada: For Vancouver?
Guru dasa: No, I'm go..., tomorrow I'm going to join Bhavananda for a week, Bhavananda Swami. Then I go to Delhi to see... And I'm also going to Bhuvanesvara for Gopala Krsna. Then I'm going to Delhi to see that American Ambassador again about putting our name on the food list, Indo-American food list, then Vrndavana, then Vancouver.
Prabhupada: So (indistinct) Delhi. Then?
Guru dasa: New York.
Prabhupada: New York. Delhi to New York?
Guru dasa: Yes.
Prabhupada: (indistinct)
Guru dasa: Yes.
Prabhupada: (indistinct)
Guru dasa: I think it is direct. That I can do.
Guest (1) (Indian man): (Hindi with Prabhupada) In relation with our business also, I am thinking of going.
Prabhupada: No business. (laughter) Don't go. Business is this hari kirtana.
Guest (1): (Hindi) I just said that I had thought of that in my own different way also.
Prabhupada: (Hindi)
Guru dasa: People carry on business for happiness and enough to eat and enough clothing. That, no separate endeavor is necessary. Krsna gives it all, and more happiness. We can attest to that because we did business. All of us were businessmen.
Prabhupada: (Hindi with guest) Oh, I see that are (indistinct).
Guest (1): No, I am not leaving. Whether Krsna gives me fifty rupees or five million rupees, it does not make much difference, because I am in the line, because I am in the line.
Prabhupada: That's all.
Guest (1): I may leave any time.
Prabhupada: No, no that's all right.
Guest (1): I may leave any time also.
Prabhupada: That is our purpose to (indistinct).
Guest (1): Unfortunately some things happened, and some court matters are going on.
Prabhupada: Court?
Guest (1): Court matters, some, some law suits, etc. which I have filed which aggregate to the extent of about crore rupees or so.
Prabhupada: Hm.
Guest (1): Oh, I mean I'll get that much. That could be as good amount as you (indistinct).
Prabhupada: Where? Where? Your claim?
Guest (1): Yes, yes.
Prabhupada: You have to, you have to pay so much stamping fee.
Guest (1): No. The maximum stamp duty to be paid is fifteen thousand. Even if you've got a claim of fifteen crore, fifteen thousand is the maximum stamp duty you have to pay. You don't have to pay more.
Prabhupada: Fifteen thousand you have to pay?
Guest (1): Yes.
Prabhupada: (Hindi) ...in this age, Kali.
Guest (1): (Hindi) ...he owes me money and I couldn't get my money back from him.
Prabhupada: If you have no money, then you cannot get justice, because he's claiming it is right claim, but if he had no fifteen thousand, then he could not claim it. Fifteen thousand is there, then (indistinct), so on , so on. So anyone who has no money, he cannot get justice in Kali-yuga. (Hindi)
Guest (1): A lot of that fifteen thousand is exempted in some cases, but even then you have to figure out some (indistinct) and remain in the, I mean present yourself in the court in the mood to argue and talk and all that things. So naturally if you don't have even that much, you have to forego (indistinct). What you're saying is hundred percent true. Yes. It's like that.
Prabhupada: And nowadays bribe also.
Guest: Yeah. This is a must.
Prabhupada: Fourth-class, sudra (indistinct), bribe.
Guest (1): (indistinct) one of the partners. (indistinct) another partner.
Guest (2): (indistinct) The demand it as a bribe also.
Guest (1): (indistinct) your partner like that?
Guru dasa: Because blind leaders, we have allowed bribery to come about. In the passport line you have to stand because they suspect one thief. Every man who is a gentleman also has to stand and be inspected. It's Kali-yuga.
Guest (1): One thing is there, when I am worried about this thing or that thing, this is the place where I get peace of mind. I forget everything.
Prabhupada: That's a fact.
Guest (1): And I don't come here with any expectation, not for liberation or anyone or anything, this or that. I, what I get...
Prabhupada: If you're getting...
Guest (1): I am liberated that way already. I don't care about the liberation of tomorrow. Yeah, that's true.
Guru dasa: Yes, I understand. We are in the same boat.
Guest (1): Actually you are much advanced, so it will be very difficult for you to.... I am still at the lower level and struggling against those things.
Guru dasa: Only advanced because I'm putting more time in. Otherwise, not more advanced.
Guest (1): Yeah. Capacity has improved. Our capacity is still limited. We are still embroiled in the...
Guru dasa: Advanced means such and such a person has spent so many times in the business house, twenty-five years, he gets a gold watch. The only reason I may be more advanced is 'cause I get peace of mind, too, so I stay longer. [break]
Guest (2): We have got an appointment. We have got.... [break]
Guest (3): ...somewhere. Saturday they close at, by 3 or 3:30 so I want to go before that.
Prabhupada: So, you can go before 3:30. There is no difficulty (laughter)
Guest (3): (Hindi)
Prabhupada: (Sanskrit) (laughter)
Guest (3): (Sanskrit) bhijayate.
Prabhupada: So I have seen this instrument. Destiny is very strong. Karmana daiva-netrena jantur deha upapattaye [SB 3.31.1]. Therefore sastra says that you try for that thing which was not possible in many other lives. In each life everyone gets father, mother, son, and the father's duty to son, son, that is going on. When you take birth as demigod-Indra, Candra, Varunaor as human being or as animal the care-taking business is there. Even the small ant during rainy season, when there is so much flood, they take the eggs on the headyou have seen the red ant?and finding out some place. The care-taking is there. Even the birds, a sparrow. So when their, the season for laying down eggs, they bring some straws, and keep like that to make a nest for taking care of the eggs. So this taking care by the father and mother, beginning from the ant up to the Indra, Candra devas, that is there.
yas tv indragopam athavendram aho sva-karma-
bandhanurupa-phala-bhajanam atanoti
karmani nirdahati kintu ca bhakti-bhajam
govindam adi-purusam tam aham bhajami
[Bs. 5.54]
Indra, there is indragopam, one very small insect. It is also called indra, indragopam, insect. And another Indra is the King of heaven. So sastra says from this Indra to that indra, everyone is bound up by his karma. It includes all others, from this indra to that Indra. Karmani nirdahati kintu ca bhakti-bhajam [Bs. 5.54]. Everyone is bound up by the resultant action of his karma. It cannot be changed. So sastra says don't try to change your karma-phala. Better utilize that energy for becoming advanced in Krsna consciousness. Because you cannot change the destiny. That is not possible. Then shall I not endeavor for improvement of my economic, economic position? No. Why? I am, because destiny, whatever you have got your destiny, you'll get it. How shall I get it? Now suppose if you are put into some unwanted circumstances. You do not want it. You are forced to accept it. So similarly, as distressed condition comes upon you without your wanting, similarly, the position of happiness also will come to you, even you don't have to try for it. Tal labhyate duhkhavad anyatah sukham. Just like distressed condition, unhappiness, nobody wants, but it comes, by force. Similarly, the conditional happiness of life. Because everyone's life is mixed up with some distress or happiness. Nobody can say, "I am simply happy.'' That is not possible. Distress is there, but nobody wants distress. But it comes. So why happiness will not come? So don't waste your time in this way, because you cannot change this. This will come, automatically. You try for Krsna consciousness, which you never tried. That is recommended. And there is a Bengali verse, janame janame sabe pita mata paya: to take care of oneself by the fathers, that is available in every life. Because the ant is also taking care. That is not human society, but he's still taking care. The tiger also taking care. The small cubs, they're loitering on the, on the body of the lion, and he is feeling very nice. Even monkeys, I have seen. One monkey came in window, and she had one small child, and somehow or other the child came inside my room. She, that outside monkey, became mad after it. So I had to take... (laughs) The affection is there. The ant, they're affectionate, the snake affectionate, tiger affectionate, man is affectionate. That is given; otherwise who will take care? So therefore the Vaisnava kavi says, janame janame sabe pita mata paya: in every life you'll get father and mother and their protection, krsne guru nahi mile bhaja hari ei, but in every life you cannot get Krsna and guru take care of. Because unless you get Krsna and guru, then you are within the cycle of birth and death. And you get father and mother and their care, that is all right, but krsna-guru does not come in that way. That you have to search out. Ei rupe brahmanda brahmite kona bhagyavan jiva guru-krsna-krpaya paya bhakti... [Cc. Madhya 19.151]. Because Krsna, guru will give you the nucleus of devotional life. Krsna guru nahi mile bhaja hari ei.
So actually, that is the fact, and I was going to tell about Sridhara Swami. Sridhara Swami was a great devotee, so he was thinking of taking sannyasa. So he was contemplating that "I shall now leave my home and take sannyasa.'' So in the meantime, his wife became pregnant. Then he thought that "I was thinking like that. Anyway, this has happened, and if I take sannyasa now, what people will say, that 'His wife is pregnant and he has taken sannyasa, he has gone out of home.' " So he waited, the child was born, and the mother died. (laughing) Then he thought, "I do not know what Krsna desires. Who will take care of this child, motherless child?'' So that he was thinking very deeply. One lizard dropped before him, one small child lizard. Mother gave birth to a child this morning, and the small lizard was staying, and immediately small ant came before the mouth of that small lizard, and he ate. Then Sridhara Swami thought, "The every arrangement is there. Why I am thinking of this or that?'' Immediately went away. Actually, that is the position. The actual care is taken by Krsna, eko yo bahunam vidadhati kaman, nityo nityanam cetanas cetananam (Katha Upanisad 2.2.13). He is taking care of everyone.
So destiny is that we should devote our life for awakening Krsna consciousness. This human life is meant for that purpose. By nature's way, prakrteh kriyamanani gunaih karmani sarvasah [Bg. 3.27], nature is bringing us. As soon as we become sinful, we are dropped down to suffer the sequence of sinful life in different varieties. Again, just like a man, criminal, is put into the jail, but when his time is finished, again he is made free. Similarly, the cycle of birth and death, dehantara-praptih, tatha dehantara-praptih [Bg. 2.13], one after another, is going on. So the animal life means reaction of sinful life, and upper class of life, demigods, means result of pious life. Two kinds of things are there, sinful and pious, through the cycle of birth is going on. But this human form of life or above human form of life, it is a chance for understanding the real value of life, and therefore for human beings there are guidances, these Vedas, Puranas, Vedanta-sutra. It is meant for the human beings, not for the cats and dogs. Anadi-bahirmukha jiva krsna bhuli gela ataeva krsna veda-purana kaila [Cc. Madhya 20.117]. So it is recommended in the human form of life, first of all training as a brahmacari, then he may remain as grhastha for sometime. The life is divided into four parts, twenty-five years. Suppose I live a hundred years: twenty-five years to become brahmacari, remain as brahmacari, and twenty-five years to remain as grhastha, family man, and twenty-five years as vanaprastha and twenty-five years as sannyasa. This is system, Vedic system. Sannyasa means vanaprastha is the preparation for sannyasa, and sannyasa means completely dedicated to the service of Krsna. This is our system. Just like you are spirit soul. Our business is not here. Our business in the spiritual world. Here, by circumstances you have fallen into the material condition, but if you take "This is all-in-all our duty,'' that is not advised in the sastra. It is circumstances. We have fallen into, under certain circumstances, so we have to take care of. The real duty is to how to save myself from this material entanglement.
So our, this institution, that is our ambition, that we are giving, trying to give facilities, at least to some intending person, especially retired person, to take advantage of this institution. As far as possible live, for we have got rooms like that. Live there and take little prasadam and fully devote time how to advance in Krsna consciousness. That is success of life. So it is authorized by the sastras, pancas ordhvam vanam vrajet. Therefore you'll find still. But now the things have changed that every holy places there are so many men retired. [break]
Pradyumna: (chanting Sanskrit to Bhagavad-gita 1.28) [break]
Prabhupada: "...with my family member shall come to fight with me, so what shall I say, that I have to kill my nephew, I have to kill my brother, I have to kill my grandfather, this is the fight? No, no I am not going to fight. Let them all fight." That is natural. So read it.
Prabhupada: "So how can I kill my brother and nephew and others, family members? So my bow is dropping." Go on.
Prabhupada: Yes, viparitani. "I came to fight, to gain my kingdom, but I see the opposite." Viparitani. "I'll not be able to enjoy my kingdom by killing them." (indistinct) Go on.
Pradyumna: Ah, translation?
Prabhupada: No, no. You can go on.
Prabhupada: Translation.
Pradyumna: "I do not see how any good can come from killing my own kinsmen in this battle, nor can I, my dear Krsna, desire any subsequent victory, kingdom or happiness."
Prabhupada: Naturally this will be. Then?
Prabhupada: Generally we improve our material condition just to become happy with relatives. When we construct a new house, we invite relatives. So they may come, they will say, "Oh, you have done very nice,'' and he is also pleased, "My relatives, they have seen.'' But "If all the relatives are killed, then how it will be possible for me to enjoy the kingdom?" Yesam arthe kanksitam rajyam.
Prabhupada: Yes, bhogah sukhani ca. Then?
Pradyumna: Ta ime 'vasthita yuddhe.
Prabhupada: "They, for whom I wanted this kingdom, they are in my path. I have to kill them. So what kind of fight is this?" Then?
Prabhupada: "I have to kill them, all the religious and family members." Then?
Prabhupada: "I don't like. I don't want this fight." (laughs)
Pradyumna: Ghnato 'pi madhusudana.
Prabhupada: "Then let them kill me. I'll tolerate that. But I am not going to kill them." Then?
Prabhupada: So in this way he decided, or he made a plan, not to kill. From superficial, material point of view, he was very nice gentleman. But Krsna actually chastised, kutas tva kasmalam idam visame samupasthitam, asocyan anvasocas tvam prajna-vadams... [Bg. 2.11]. "You are talking like a very learned man, but you are fool number one.'' This is the instruction of Bhagavad-gita. And then at last He said that "The most confidential part of knowledge I am telling you," sarva-dharman parityajya mam e... [Bg. 18.66]. "What I say, you do. That means I am asking you to kill, to do that.'' So he said, karisye vacanam, "Yes.'' That is Krsna consciousness. "I do not like to do it, but Krsna wants me to do, all right." This is Krsna consciousness. It is very difficult. (laughing) I do not like to do, but Krsna likes to do, I have to do it. This decision is very good. A Krsna conscious person, a devotee, is prepared to do anything nonsense for Krsna, even in the estimation of ordinary person. People ask me that "You are spreading Krsna consciousness and he is, say, encouraging war," because they have got experience of the last two wars in Western country. So when Krsna encouraging the war, they do not take it very nicely. They say, "What kind of God He is?" because they have suffered in the war, and then we are presenting a God who is encouraging war. So there was one lawyer, you know, Goldsmith. He helped me, incorporated this...
Devotee: In New York.
Prabhupada: New York, yes. He was very good friend. So he was asking that "How it is good, Swamiji, that Krsna is encouraging war, fight?'' Although Arjuna was making own plan not to fight, Krsna took the trouble for instructing him Gita and then inducing to change his plan: "Go on, fight!'' (end)

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