Devotee: Lacking?(?)

Prabhupada: No. The hope. Suppose you are hoping something, but will never be fulfilled. What is called?

Devotee: Frustration.

Devotee: Dreams?

Prabhupada: No. Utopian, yes. That is the exact word. You are thinking something, building castle in the air. So Bhagavata says durasaya, utopian theory. He's thinking that "I shall be very great by doing this business or doing, having this education," or this or that. So many things. Everyone has got his own plan. But Bhagavata says durasaya, "This is utopian." Why this utopian they have taken? They are so much educated, they are so much wealthy, beautiful, and intelligent. Why durasaya, utopian? Because bahir-artha-maninah. They have taken their basic platformthe external energy. So what is the fault there? Because external energy is itself temporary. The Mayavadi philosophy, it is called false, but we say temporary. So what is the profit by temporary achievement? Just like... There are many instances. President Kennedy: with great endeavor he became a president. Temporary. The post is temporary, say five years or four years. But still, people, they exert so much energy. And even if he is president, if there is something wrong in somebody's mind, he is killed. So is it not utopian? His energy should have been utilized for self-realization, "What I am?" But if somebody wastes his energy to capture some utopian post which will be finished at any moment, so is it not utopian?

Hamsaduta: A devotee, he can be very poor, but is it okay if he's hankering after something for Krsna? He sees, "Oh we haven't got anything. We need a house," or something like that? Why can't we... Can a devotee think like that, "Why can't we get a nice house like these people for Krsna"? Is that all right?

Prabhupada: Devotee thinks, "Why shall we not have a nice house?"

Hamsaduta: For Krsna.

Prabhupada: Oh, for Krsna he can have anything. That is a different thing. Not for himself. For himself, he should be satisfied whatever Krsna offers. That's all. But for Krsna he'll try to... Just like the example is Hanuman. Hanuman, he fought with Ravana. Why? Not for his personal sake. He did not fight with Ravana to take the kingdom of Ravana, become king there. No. He fought for Rama. So the Krsna consciousness person's endeavor should be to give everything to Rama. Not... But for himself he's completely dependent on Krsna whatever position he may keep. It doesn't matter. He has no such perception, "Whether I'm..." He's always happy. Krsna's service is so nice that he has no other idea what is happiness except Krsna's service. So why shall he desire this or that? Naturally, he has no desire because he's already fulfilled his desire being in Krsna consciousness. But those who are thinking that "Becoming Krsna conscious I shall become very rich, I shall become one of the richest men," that is his foolishness. That means he's not in Krsna consciousness. He still requires to be more advanced. But actually one who is Krsna conscious, that very consciousness is so happy that he doesn't want anything more. That very consciousness is happiness. Ahaituky apratihata. There is no other cause. A real Krsna conscious person does not become Krsna conscious for any other purpose. That Krsna consciousness is his purpose. That is the end. That is the means. It is not a means to achieve some thing else. Bhakti is such thing. Therefore bhakti is transcendental. It is not material, that... In the material world, in exchange of something you get something else, but in the spiritual world the endeavor and the achievement the same thing. So actually, a person who is in Krsna consciousness, he has no such desire. Anyabhilasita-sunyam [Brs. 1.1.11]. The exact definition you'll find in the Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu: anyabhilasita-sunyam. Sunyam means completely devoid of any other desires. Anyabhilasita-sunyam jnana-karmady-anavrtam [Cc. Madhya 19.167]. And uncovered by the activities of knowledge or fruitive action. Anukulyena krsnanusilanam. Simply acting in favor of Krsna: "Krsna wants this, I shall do it." "Krsna wants this fight"Arjuna did it. Not for himself. We shall keep always in mind that Arjuna was engaged into fight not for his personal self. For his personal self he denied: "Oh, what shall I do with this kingdom by fighting with my brothers and grandfather? No. Krsna, excuse me. I cannot fight." But when he understood that the fight is to be done for Krsna, he took all the responsibility. Similarly, a Krsna conscious person will not aspire anything for his sense gratification, but he will aspire for all the world for Krsna's service. Is that clear? Yes. Yes?

Guest: Supposing if I were to become a devotee and I might be influenced to try to live like Siva because richness doesn't appeal to me. But the problem is that in a country like this the winter is extremely cold, and if I try to live like Siva I would freeze to death. So...

Prabhupada: I have understood. I have understood. Krsna consciousness does not mean that you falsely make some attempt. The... Just like Arjuna. Arjuna understood the Krsna philosophy, and it does not mean that he became a naked fakir and went away from the fighting place, and without any clothing he began to travel. Is it that? No. The only thing is that he changed the account. The account was on behalf of Krsna. So you haven't got to make such renunciation that you have to live underneath a tree or give up your dress, become naked. No. That is not... You have misunderstood. You should dress himself properly, you should eat properly, you should work properly, but not on your account, but Krsna's account. That is the thing. That's all. Nirbandhe krsna-sambandhe yukta-vairagya ucyate. That is the difference between Vaisnava philosophy and Mayavadi philosophy. The Mayavada philosophy says that brahma satyam jagan mithya, "This world is false and Brahman is truth. So let me become renounced of all this worldly relationship and try to be one with the Brahman." That is Mayavada philosophy. We don't say that. We say that because Brahman is satya, truth, and because the world is created by Brahman, so this is also truth. This is also truth. Purnam idam purnam adah purnat purnam udacyate [Isopanisad, Invocation]. That is the version of Upanisad. The thing is, difference between Mayavadi and Vaisnava, they do not know the proprietorship. We know the proprietorship. We don't accept anything as "I am the proprietor." This is mistake. This is maya. Actually... If I take, "It is Krsna's," then I am liberated. Just try to understand. You are sitting here. You know that this apartment or this loft belongs to somebody. So there is no harm sitting here, hearing here. But if you think that "This is mine," and if you want you take something out of this, then there is trouble. Similarly, this world belongs to Krsna. If you have always that consciousness that it belongs to Krsna... Just like a bank cashier. He knows that millions of dollars is coming to him, but he knows that "This is belonging to the bank. I am simply cashier." Similarly, you can deal with all the worldly things, but if your consciousness is Krsna then you are free. Nikhilesv apy avasthasu jivan muktah sa ucyate. In any condition of life if one is Krsna conscious, he's always liberated. He's not affected. So that is Krsna consciousness. Krsna consciousness does not teach you to become a false renouncer. What is the use of becoming a renouncer? After all, you have got this body. How can you renounce it? Either you cover it with underwear or either you cover it with costly dress, you have to cover it. So that covering also belongs to Krsna. So we have to be situated under the consciousness that "Everything is Krsna's. Nothing belongs to me." That is the actual fact. But by illusion we are accepting, "This is mine, this is mine, this is mine." We have to give up this consciousness and accept the Krsna consciousness. That is our preaching. Is that clear? Yes?

Malati: Swamiji, I don't understand when you say that you worship Krsna or Visnu. I don't understand if Krsna is Visnu or Visnu is Krsna.

Prabhupada: Yes. Krsna... There are several categories of living entities. Krsna is also living entity. Visnu is also living entity. You are also living entity. Lord Siva is also living entity. Every one of us. But there are categories. Just like in your Montreal city, there are hundreds of millions of people. But someone's status is higher than the others. Similarly, Krsna is the original living entity. Govindam adi-purusam. Adi-purusam means original. And from Him everything has expanded. Eko bahu syama. He has expanded Himself in many. So some of them are in the Visnu category. The Visnu category means they are almost equal to Krsna. It is estimated the Visnu categories, They have ninety-four percent opulence of Krsna. And the next category is Siva category. The Siva category has eighty-four percent of all the opulence of Krsna. And the next category is Brahma category, Brahma. Brahma category means living entities, when they are perfect, they can obtain seventy-eight percent of the opulence of Krsna. So Krsna is cent percent, Visnu or Narayana is ninety-four percent, Lord Siva is eighty-four percent, and we, in our perfection, we are seventy-eight percent. Is that clear?

Malati: Well, I don't understand then why you'd worship Visnu and not Krsna. I don't understand that why then you'd go to Visnu and not to Krsna if Krsna is higher?

Prabhupada: Why do you take care of your child? Why not other child? They are also children. Why don't you take care? Answer this?

Malati: Because this child was given to me.

Prabhupada: You love him. That's all. Similarly, if you love Krsna, that's all right. If you love Visnu, that is also all right. But you cannot derive the same result by loving Krsna and by Visnu. Therefore it is your selection, whom should you love. Krsna is cent percent and Visnu is ninety-four percent. So if you want to worship or love ninety-four percent, that is also almost Krsna. But Krsna is cent percent, purnam. Mattah parataram kincid asti dhananjaya. In Bhagavad-gita you'll find that He is the supreme.

Malati: That part I understand. What I don't understand is why... Why would they take less than Krsna? Why would you take less than Krsna? If Krsna is cent percent, why take less?

Prabhupada: I don't follow what you say. What is that?

Hamsaduta: Why would someone take less? Why would someone choose Visnu and not Krsna if they know that Krsna is cent percent and Visnu is ninety-four percent?

Prabhupada: That we have already answered. Why you like this child?

Malati: No, what I mean is...

Prabhupada: That is your selection.

Malati: Then what I want to know is, if you worship Krsna and you go to Krsnaloka...

Prabhupada: Yes.

Malati: ...and if you worship Visnu, what happens to you? Where do you go? What happens to those people?

Prabhupada: He goes to Visnuloka.

Malati: And it's not... Is it eternal?

Prabhupada: Yes. That is also. Any place in the spiritual sky, they are eternal. If that is your question... Now either Visnu planet or Krsna planet, they are all in the spiritual world. Or the impersonal Brahman, that is also in the spiritual world. So somebody wants to be merged into the Brahman effulgence, so that is also a spiritual world. Somebody wants to go into the Visnu planet, that is also in the spiritual world. And somebody wants to go to this Krsna planet, that is also in the spiritual sky. But there are differences even in the spiritual sky. The difference between spiritual sky and material sky is that everything in the spiritual sky, they are eternal, and everything in the material sky, they are temporary. That's all. Oh, so many? You, you.

Gurudasa: Isn't brahmajyoti temporary in the fact that you can come back down to the earth? Back to the material world?

Prabhupada: Brahmacari?

Gurudasa: Brahmajyoti.

Prabhupada: No. Brahmajyoti means spiritual sky. This material sky means brahmajyoti is covered by material cloud. Actually, everything is brahmajyoti. Just like clear sky, but some portion of the sky is sometimes covered by cloud. Some portion only. The whole sky is never covered by sky. Similarly, some portion which is covered by this material atmosphere, that is called material world. That's all. Actually, the original sky is spiritual. Original sky is full of sunshine, but the covered portion means we cannot see the sunshine. Covered portion by cloud means we cannot see the sunshine. And similarly, this material sky means where we cannot see the spiritual effulgence. That is the difference. Otherwise, even this material sky is also a spiritual sky. The spiritual sky is the original status. Yes.

Guest: (asks long question about what questions he can ask.)

Prabhupada: Yes, any question you can ask.

Guest: I have noticed when everybody touches their head to the floor. And this I find so disturbing (indistinct) another man and kiss their boots. I found that (indistinct). And to tell you frankly, I find it quite shocking, too, that people place their head on the ground before another man. And you are a man like that. You are a man of knowledge, and you're (indistinct). But yet I can't see of people their heads to the floor...

Prabhupada: You have been asked to do that?

Guest: Nobody asked me, but I see everybody else does it.

Prabhupada: Then why you are feeling so disturbed?

Guest: Because to me, people are people, and there's... No man is a God, and it's just appearing as if you were...

Prabhupada: But as you are thinking that they should not, they are thinking that you should. (laughter) As you are thinking they should not do like that, they are thinking you must do that. Then what is it? Difference of opinion. Your vote is single and they are so many. So you have to follow the greatest majority vote.

Guest: Unless I am given a very good reason to do so...

Prabhupada: No, I am answering your question. As you are thinking in that way, they are also at liberty to think otherwise. So you cannot encroach upon their thinking.

Guest: I will not do that.

Prabhupada: So therefore as you are thinking that they should not have done, they are thinking you should have done. The real question is that they are following a system. So in that system the spiritual master is offered respect in that way. There is a system. And they don't feel any uneasiness by doing that.

Guest: But if I were to enter politics and..., and suppose I were to attack some people who have actually the leadership of foreign powers or something like that, and newspaper man would tell my opponents that that man has... [break]

Prabhupada: Newspaper man has poor vision. He's seeing "Indian" and "American" and "Canadian." So his vision is poor. If anyone thinks that "This Swamiji is coming from India, and the Americans or Canadians, they are offering their respect in that way," so he has to expand his vision in Krsna consciousness. That... Just like it is stated in the Bhagavad-gita, that,

Devotee: Swami, is the idea that matter is neither created nor destroyed, but the substance is eternal but the form is temporary? Is that...

Prabhupada: Yes. Yes. That is the way. Everything here in the material world is temporary. Anything you take, anything material, that is temporary. Similarly this body is temporary, this house is temporary, this country is temporary. Say some five hundred years ago, this was not Canada. It was something else. Similarly, in some other time, it will be different. So nothing is fixed up or permanent in this material world. Yes?

Guest: Some time ago, I... [break]

Prabhupada: ...either belonging to the Indians or to the Canadians. It belongs to Krsna. Actually, that is the fact. Everything belongs to Krsna. We simply falsely say that "This is, belongs to Canadian," "This is, belongs to Indian," "This is, belongs to..." (end)