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720405SB.MEL
Prabhupada: ...of His association, or its association with the different types of modes of material nature, sattva-guna, rajo-guna, tamo-guna. So you mix it. Then it becomes eighty-one. Three multiplied by three, nine. And again, nine multiplied by nine, it becomes eighty-one. So there are 8,400,000 forms on account of this mixture. That's all. So the mixture is possible, and according to the mixture, they have got different consciousness. According to the body, they have got different consciousness. A man, highly intellectual brahmana, he is, "Oh, I am greater than everyone. I am so wise. I am so pure. I am brahmana." So he has got a different conception. And similarly, the hog, because he has got a different form, it has that, "Oh, stool is so nice. Let me eat it." It is very (easy) to understand. According to the association with the modes of material nature, we are getting different types of body. And according to different types of body, we are developing different types of consciousness. Is it very difficult to understand? But when we transcend this bodily concept of life, then we come to the one standard consciousness. That is Krsna consciousness. That is Krsna consciousness. Try to understand. If there is any difficulty, ask. It is very important. Why there are different consciousness? Everyone could take up this Krsna consciousness. But they cannot take it because they have got bodily concept of life. And body means association with the modes of material nature in a different way. Try to understand. Is there any question on this point? Say it clearly. If you have understood, explain. It is very important point.
Ramamano gunesu, gunesu asya mamaham iti manyate. According to the body, the hog is claiming, "Oh, the stool is mine. You cannot take." He is thinking. Just like the other day in Hong Kong, we saw that one woman was collecting some nasty food from the garbage because he (she) is thinking, "This sort of food is my food." Mamaham. He(she) has got a certain type of body. Therefore Narottama dasa Thakura said, nana yoni brahmana kare, karma-kanda jnana-kanda sakale visera bhanda. Those who are taking to the karmis' life or jnanis' life, even jnanis' life. Jnanis' life means higher type of forms of body. Just like... So long... Here the jnanis have got a very nice body, brahminical body, pure, cleansed, and beautiful, knowledge. The higher development, they can go still up, Maharloka, Janaloka, Tapoloka, Siddhaloka, Brahmaloka. Urdhvam gacchanti sattva-stha [Bg. 14.18]. The more you are in sattva-guna, you get higher level of living in higher planetary system. Urdhvam gacchanti sattva-stha [Bg. 14.18]. Those who are on the modes of goodness of material nature, they go higher and higher, higher and higher. But Krsna says, a-brahma-bhuvanal lokah punar avartino 'rjuna [Bg. 8.16]. Even if you go to the Brahmaloka, that is also not security, that you get rid of the four principles of material life, birth, death, old age, and disease. A-brahma-bhuvanal lokah punar avartino 'rjuna [Bg. 8.16]. Again coming down. Aruhya krcchrena... Even if you go to the impersonal Brahman effulgence, from there also, you have to come back. Aruhya krcchrena param padam tatah patanty adhah [SB 10.2.32]. So, madhya-dhama gatva punar janma na... But anyone who reaches The jiva, another reason of falling down.
There is sometimes question, "How one who lived in association with Krsna, how he fell down?" Generally those who are living with Krsna or Vaikuntha, they never fall down. But those who are in the effulgence of Krsna, in the impersonal Brahman, they fall down. Because it is the propensity of the living entity to enjoy. But one cannot enjoy; there is no ananda. Those who are merging in the Brahman effulgence, they are getting the department of eternity. The Brahman is sac-cid-ananda. So they are simply accepting sad-amsa. Sad-amsa means only eternity. Just like if you are asked to sit down in a place eternally, no, it will be impossible. You must desire a change, variety, because we are living entities, living beings. So therefore our Vaisnava philosophy has varieties of enjoyment.
This Mayavadi philosophy, they are thinking of Brahman, aham brahmasmi, aham brahmasmi, "I have become Narayana." So how long they will think like that? Therefore they fall down. Artificially he is Brahman. That's all right. Everyone is Brahman. But simply thinking, "I am Brahman, I am Brahman." Suppose you are rich man. So if you simply think, "I am rich man, I am rich man, I am rich man," will that give you pleasure? You must act like a rich man. If I am rich man, I must have a very nice motor car, I must have very nice society, friendship, love, buildings. Then that will give me pleasure. And if I have got millions of dollars bank balance and if I think, "Oh, I am so rich man, I am so rich man, I am so rich man." That will not give you pleasure. Is it not practical? Try to understand. Will any rich man, if he thinks simply that "I am rich man, I am rich man," will he be happy in that way? Rather, a poor man who has got variegated life, he is happy.
Even Krsna, who is the Supreme Lord, who has nothing to do, He also sometimes thinks that "I must fight with somebody. I must play. I must become subordinate to somebody." Therefore He comes. He becomes subordinate to Nanda-Yasoda. That is pleasure. He becomes chastised. He fights with the demon. Some of the demons, they are devotees. Just like if I want to take massage, I find out my masseur from my devotees, with all strength. You see? I cannot go outside. Similarly, janmady asya yatah [SB 1.1.1]. The fighting spirit is there in Krsna also. So when He wants to fight, in the Vaikuntha there is no possibility of fight. Nobody will be able to fight. Nobody will agree to fight. So there is no fighting. Fighting means must be inimical propensity. Unless you think "I am your enemy," and I think "you are my enemy," the fighting is not going on. If I think, "I am fighting with my friend," it will be false fighting. Fighting must be between two strong enemies. Therefore sometimes Jaya Vijaya come. The question is that why the living entity falls down? It is not falls down. Just like Jaya Vijaya came just to satisfy his master. His master desired fighting, so some of His servant went to the material world and became great enemy like Hiranyakasipu. Ravana. For killing Ravana, Rama is coming. Well, Ravana could not be killed without Rama. If Rama desired, millions of Ravanas could be killed in one second. And why He is coming to, personally to fight with him? Just to satisfy a pleasure pastime, that "I shall fight." That is variety.
Brahman, Brahman does not mean no variety. Varieties. There is fighting. Just like Krsna was taking pleasure when His devotee Bhisma was piercing Him with arrows, actually. He was taking pleasure. So Visvanatha Cakravarti has given this example, that this can be realized by this example, that when a lover kisses the opposite lover, even sometimes, kissing, there is blood come out, still, it is pleasing. In that kissing process, even blood comes out, still, it is pleasure. The lover does not complain. It is very suitable example given by Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura. So when Krsna enjoys with His devotees, the fighting with piercing Krsna's body, that is being enjoyed by Krsna. I think I have explained this in Bhagavata. So impersonal, without any variety, nobody can live. No live Even Krsna, the Supreme Lord, He can also say. He wants variety. So this variety of forms... Because they want variety of enjoyment, therefore they have got different forms of body according to the association.
So Mayavadi philosophers, when they come to know that this is maya's place, so therefore they want to make it varietyless, formless. This is their theory. So, but that is not the solution. This is maya. This form or no form, this is maya. When we develop our real spiritual form and enjoy in company and association of the Supreme Lord varieties, just like Vrndavana, variety... In Vrndavana the cows, the trees, the water, they are also spiritual. Some devotee wants to serve Krsna becoming a cow. Some devotee wants to serve Krsna becoming a bird, becoming a monkey. And somebody is serving as gopi or as cowherd boy, as father, as mother. But they are all spiritual. Ananda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhavitabhih. They are all expansion. Just like when Brahma took away all the friends and cows of Krsna, immediately expanded Himself in the same way. So all the cows and all the cowherd boys, in every case, they were all expansion of Krsna, pleasure potency. Ananda-cinmaya-rasa-pratibhavitabhis tabhir ya eva nija-rupataya kalabhih [Bs. 5.37]. Nija-rupa. So the varieties are there also, but here the variety is maya. Mayaya bahu-rupaya. The same example, the mirage. It appears like water, but that is not real water. Similarly, here mayaya, because it is false. They appear like that varieties but they are false. Mayaya bahu-rupaya. Ramante. This ramante, this pleasure, is material pleasure because gunesu. Ramamana gunesu asya. They are trying to take pleasure in the material modes of nature. Mamaham iti manyate. What is that?
Prabhupada: Yes. So these varieties, they have created a sense of personal property, mama, "mine." Therefore they are fighting. "Oh, this is our country, Japanese country. This is this country. You have come here. Show me your visa," immigration. So mayaya, by maya. Why you ask for visa? It is your property? No. They are thinking, "It is my property. It is my property." Just like in Australia and other countries, colonization. They usurped others' property, and now they are thinking, "It is our property." You see? Before their usurping, the property was there. So before their usurping when the property was there, whose property it is? So we come here with different forms and claim something, "This is my property." Another man claims, "It is my property." Actually this is maya, false. Everything Krsna's property. Isavasyam idam sarvam [Iso mantra 1]. "Oh, this is..." But maya, they have created this false idea, "It is my property. It is my property." Mamaham iti manyate. The same thing explained in Bhagavad-gita. Ahankara-vimudhatma. By false ego they have become befooled. Kartaham iti manyate. Karta. Karta means the proprietor or the master. He is not actually master, but under the influence of different modes of material nature he is feeling, "I am master. I am enjoyer. I am bhokta." This is the trouble. What is the next verse?
Prabhupada: Word by word.
Prabhupada: "I am now amongst the members of Krsna conscious devotees. I am one of the devotees, and because I have taken this association, and because I am working under their direction, Krsna must be pleased, and He must give me protection. Therefore, I should not reserve anymore anything. Let me fully surrender." No reservation, fully surrendered. [break] Our business is we want to sell books, not to make money. Now, if you simply take it formally... Hayagriva has taken the formality. We have to keep some cows. Never mind we are to take payment from others. That is not cow protection. Cow protection means just like Bhagavan, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, He is tending the cows. He is going, taking the cows personally from His royal palace going to the forest whole day, working there. Is it not, cowherds boy? And taken some little fruit, mother, whatever mother has given. They are playing that. So this is cow protection, not that "Somebody will give money and we shall keep some third class cows and feed there and become cow protector." We must tend the cows very nicely so that they give us sufficient milk. And with that milk we shall live. "No, because we are giving protection to cow, you send money for the cows and the cow protectors, and earn money there and give us money. We shall eat nicely and sleep." As soon as this practice is going on, then next will be: "Give me some LSD, give me something else." This will go on. We don't want that.
Similarly, the GBC member means they will see that in every temple these books are very thoroughly being read and discussed and understood and applied in practical life. That is wanted, not to see the vouchers only, "How many books you have sold, and how many books are in the stock?" That is secondary. You may keep vouchers... If one is engaged in Krsna's service, there is no need of vouchers. That is... Everyone is doing his best. That's all. So we have to see that things are going on very nicely. So in that way the GBC members should divide some zones and see very nicely that things are going on, that they are chanting sixteen rounds, and temple management is doing according to the routine work, and the books are being thoroughly discussed, being read, understood practically. These things are required. Now, suppose you go to sell some book and if somebody says, "You have read this book? Can you explain this verse?" then what you will say? You will say, "No. It is for you. It is not for me. I have to take money from you. That's all." Is that very nice answer?
Devotee: No, Srila Prabhupada.
Prabhupada: Then? "We have written this book for your reading, not for our reading. We are simply collect money." That's all.
Sudama: Srila Prabhupada? If while in the process of the studying of the book, there is some disagreement, one...
Prabhupada: What disagreement? Everything is explained there. Why there shall be disagreement?
Sudama: Well, if there is no understanding, but still, the question, there is a question presented, then...
Prabhupada: Then without understanding... or understanding... What is the difficulty? Everything is explained there. So what is the difficulty of disagreement? Everything, word to word meaning is there. Translation is there. Purport is there. Where is the difficulty?
Sudama: The point is, then, to practically apply. Then you will understand.
Prabhupada: Practical application means that this "I" and "mine," it is all misconception. Everything belongs to Krsna. I am His servant. When I say "I," "I" means "I am servant of Krsna." And if I say "my, mine, Krsna is mine. I am Krsna's, Krsna is mine." That is perfect "I" and "mine." "I am Brahman, I am God, I am the Supreme, I am moving the stars"just like these rascals, they think like thatthat is rascaldom. There are so many rascals, they think like that, meditate, "I am the Supreme, I am moving the star. I am moving the sun. It is being controlled by me." That is their meditation. That is explained there. That is their meditation. Is it not? Does not somebody meditate like that? They do not take actual, whether actually he is able to move the sun and moon, but foolishly thinking like that. They are taught that "If you simply think like that, then one day you will become." How impractical proposition.
Our proposition, that we also think about Krsna's pastimes in order to enter into Krsna con..., but not to become Krsna, but to be allowed into the eternal pastimes of Krsna, nitya-lila-pravistha. Our thinking, we are thinking of Krsna's pastimes, sada tad-bhava-bhavitah [Bg. 8.6], not to become Krsna, even not to become the cowherd boy. Ours is alwayswe want to become the servant of the cowherd boy. Those who are thinking of becoming gopi, the maidservant of another gopi. That is our proposition. If I think that "I shall become mother Yasoda," that is also Mayavada. That is also Mayavada, exactly like that, if one thinks that "I shall become Krsna." Our only proposition is how to be engaged in the service of Krsna. That is explained.
So if there is difficulty, we should discuss among ourselves and clear it, but there must be thorough discussion and understanding. And the president of the center, he should be able to answer the questions of other members. If he is unable, then he should ask the local general secretary. Then, at last, it should come to me, not that all the questions are going to me directly and "We are simply busy, vouchers and reports." So these things should be very carefully noted. The president means he must be very expert. He should be... Secretaries, they should be all expert in reading. This is our main business, to study, to know things. Otherwise, what is this? Now, this boy is asking question means he should have asked question to the senior members. What is your next question?
Devotee: The question is, Prabhupada, that if there is question or not understanding in the course of a class, if the proper answer cannot be given, if one sincerely approaches you within the heart, then you will give understanding?
Prabhupada: I have given understanding already in my book. That I am explaining. Why these books are being written? Just to explain things very nicely. They are already there. You try to understand. If you cannot understand, then you... [break] ...make the thing clear. But you are unable to understand. So in that case you have to cleanse yourself. Ceto-darpana-marjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. Both things. You must be able to understand and the instructor should be able to make you understand, both of them... Just like Sukadeva Gosvami and Pariksit Maharaja, Arjuna and Krsna. One answer, and he's answered, but the answer is not understandable by us. But Arjuna is understanding. Sukadeva Gosvami is understanding. Just like this is a question, attempt?
Prabhupada: Yes. So sometimes we cannot understand due to our incapable(?). But things are already there. So by discussing, by repeated trying to understand and being cleansed of heart, everything will be done. Tad viddhi pranipatena pariprasnena sevaya [Bg. 4.34]. The two things are thereseva and pranipat: surrender, at the same time, service. Sevonmukhe hi jihvadau svayam eva sphuraty adah [Brs. 1.2.234]. If one is inclined to give service, then automatically things become understood. This is science like that.
yasya deve para bhaktir
yatha-deve tatha gurau tasyaite kathita hy arthah prakasante mahatmanah [SU 6.23] This spiritual science cannot be understood simply by academic knowledge or by challenge. The seva-vrtti, the service attitude, must be there. Otherwise it will never be understood. Yasya deve para bhaktir yatha-deve tatha gurau. These are the Vedic injunction. So let us have...[break] Each and every sloka should be very, very scrutinizingly understood. That should be the first business in the temples. Of all these books. We have got so many books. Simply if we make arrangement for selling, not for understanding, then it will be simply materialistic. Both things must go on. Go on. (end)
Link to this page: https://prabhupadabooks.com/classes/sb/2/9/3/melbourne/april/05/1972 Previous: Srimad-Bhagavatam 2.9.2 -- Melbourne, April 4, 1972 Next: Srimad-Bhagavatam 2.9.4 -- Japan, April 22, 1972
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